[05:37] <lotuspsychje> good morning
[07:55] <lotuspsychje> ki7mt: morning :p
[07:55] <ki7mt> Morning .. how goes it
[07:55] <lotuspsychje> fine mate tnx
[07:56] <ki7mt> Im to my eye in Git ion Launchpad .. what an adventure this has become
[07:56] <lotuspsychje> whats your purpose
[07:56] <ki7mt> It's working pretty good .. but they have a ways to go before it's at the BZR quality of integration
[07:56] <ki7mt> Purpose?
[07:57] <lotuspsychje> yeah with git
[07:57] <lotuspsychje> what are you doing exactly
[07:57] <ki7mt> Ok, it's allot easier to manage branches, features and such. Plus I can work diffferent branches from different boxes and not have to worry.
[07:58] <lotuspsychje> remember our talk about hp + ubuntu= http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/05/new-ubuntu-laptops-available-from-ebuyer-2-2
[07:58] <lotuspsychje> cool
[07:58] <ki7mt> wow, is that your UK Store ?
[07:59] <lotuspsychje> no, im in belgium
[07:59] <lotuspsychje> but my idea gets spreaded :p
[07:59] <lotuspsychje> i would rather plug samsung 850 pro in those machines :p
[07:59] <lotuspsychje> cheap beasts
[07:59] <ki7mt> LOL .. told you .. gotta be quick in that market :-)
[07:59] <lotuspsychje> yeah :p but in my country not many ubuntu yet
[07:59] <ki7mt> Plus they probably have lots of buying power, and get the base units cheap
[08:00] <lotuspsychje> i tryed to contact HP but never got mail from them
[08:00] <ki7mt> It's flippen hard to find descent bare-bones laptops, Im always looking for them.
[08:00] <lotuspsychje> me too, im real curious how they got those
[08:00] <lotuspsychje> and how much they cost without win + hd
[08:01] <ki7mt> They probably already have a big purchase contract in place, then made a deal with HP
[08:01] <lotuspsychje> yeah that would make sense
[08:01] <lotuspsychje> i dont have the money for big purchases
[08:02] <ki7mt> They probably use / sell to HP laptops to companies, or have a big channel partner deal for servers.
[08:02] <lotuspsychje> i need a fast company that can deliver barebones one by one
[08:02] <lotuspsychje> its bad idea to have much hardware in store
[08:02] <lotuspsychje> every customer has other needs right
[08:02] <ki7mt> Good luck with that .. they want million dollar commitments and buying orders like 100 units at a time or something
[08:03] <lotuspsychje> loool
[08:03] <lotuspsychje> so you think their so cheap because of the big ammount they ordered?
[08:03] <ki7mt> I really like the Laptop Idea, Im going toward the Micro Market, Mini-ITX, RPI2's CubiBoards, the stuff you can get one at a time.
[08:04] <lotuspsychje> yeah im thinking of replacing the regular desktop into those
[08:04] <ki7mt> Im in the same boat as you, can never source descent Laptops in low volume.
[08:04] <lotuspsychje> well i have found one or 2 companies who did mail me
[08:04] <lotuspsychje> lemme check holdon
[08:05] <ki7mt> Mini-ITX is a fraction of the cost of a full desktop. Loaded with an SSD it's lightning fast.
[08:05] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[08:05] <lotuspsychje> http://www.dragoncomputers.eu/folder?gclid=Cj0KEQjw4fCqBRDM1ZKhk5jfo6IBEiQAZQ97OE2LnqzveCgzmKMdjPHgIZQUzp_zdaTBzg4Xch4LOmEaAvu-8P8HAQ
[08:06] <lotuspsychje> they can deliver everything besides barebone laptops
[08:06] <lotuspsychje> http://www.laptopplus.nl/
[08:06] <lotuspsychje> and this one everything
[08:07] <ki7mt> That's not a bad price, 399 EU .. I didn't look at the specs though
[08:07] <lotuspsychje> those clevo barebones might be an idea perhaps
[08:08] <ki7mt> Yeah, Im pretty picky though. I like only Enermax PSU's, and Intel CPU's .. Im partitial to ASUS MB's but will use others if I have too.
[08:08] <lotuspsychje> yeah intel cpu and wifi we discussed last time, would rocknroll
[08:09] <ki7mt> I tend to stay with wat is supported most, and has rock solid reliability
[08:09] <lotuspsychje> ill surely use that
[08:09] <lotuspsychje> +ubuntu hardware 4 life
[08:09] <ki7mt> Look into the I3's m8 .. you can save allot of Duckies gettign a Dual core i3 3.6 / 3.8 CPU .. most folks never max out their box for normal computing.
[08:10] <lotuspsychje> yeah indeed + ssd will go lightning fast
[08:10] <ki7mt> It's still a Dual core, but it's half the price of an i5
[08:10] <lotuspsychje> and who needs game machines anyway these days
[08:10] <ki7mt> Yes, spend the money on an SSD +i3 and it's a rocken fast box.
[08:11] <ki7mt> Game boxes are different of course, so is Dev boxes, but we're talking about the average user that doesn't have 2 grand to spend on a box.
[08:12] <lotuspsychje> true
[08:12] <lotuspsychje> your full of good ideas im gonna use :p
[08:12] <ki7mt> I could easily spend 3000/4000 bucks on a high end game box, but, do they really "need it" == NO .. they just "want it"
[08:12] <lotuspsychje> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2opTsYGJGCg
[08:12] <lotuspsychje> ssd i3 ubuntu
[08:13] <ki7mt> I just helped a guy build an i3 + SSD a week or so ago .. he's over the moon with it, says its the fastest box he's ever used. Has Ubuntu on it of course.
[08:13] <lotuspsychje> : ) nice
[08:14] <lotuspsychje> and you use LTS also?
[08:14] <lotuspsychje> or latest
[08:14] <ki7mt> That's all I ever recommend .. I test the in-between releases, but I don't use them daily.
[08:14] <lotuspsychje> me neither
[08:14] <ki7mt> LTS that is
[08:15] <lotuspsychje> what i wanna achieve is to become cheaper of those big multinational stores
[08:15] <lotuspsychje> and more stable/fast
[08:15] <ki7mt> Im on 14.04 here and very happy with it. 15.04 is pretty good though. But, there's nothing earth shattering for the "normal user" .. the devs need it for systemD testing, but the average user can't tell the difference.
[08:16] <lotuspsychje> 16.04 sounds promising also :p
[08:16] <ki7mt> Why these folks want a distro that only has 9mo of support is beyond me.
[08:16] <lotuspsychje> they talking on that convergence
[08:16] <lotuspsychje> yeah me neither
[08:16] <lotuspsychje> i would put most of the focus on LTS
[08:16] <lotuspsychje> 14.04 has been the best ubuntu ever
[08:16] <ki7mt> Yup, my next upgrade with be 16.04
[08:17] <lotuspsychje> : )
[08:17] <lotuspsychje> i dint have 1 box yet that couldnt install 14.04
[08:17] <ki7mt> But I ahve 14.10 and two or three DE's in 15.04 on this box.
[08:17] <lotuspsychje> i installed more then 30+ already
[08:17] <lotuspsychje> cool
[08:18] <ki7mt> this is the box Im on now: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11240721/
[08:18] <lotuspsychje> what you think of internet of things?
[08:18] <lotuspsychje> looool
[08:18] <lotuspsychje> all those disks :p
[08:18] <ki7mt> Has win64, a win64-server, and somthign like 6 or 8 primary partition installs.
[08:19] <ki7mt> Yeah, I laugh when somebody says they cant multi-boot Ubuntu .. LMAO
[08:19] <lotuspsychje> :p
[08:20] <lotuspsychje> i only singleboot ubuntu
[08:20] <ki7mt> I have have apps I have to work with in Windows, so I gotta test them there.
[08:20] <lotuspsychje> would be nice one day to have a real emulator
[08:21] <lotuspsychje> like a multi Os deamon tools
[08:21] <lotuspsychje> to 'run' every software on any Os
[08:21] <ki7mt> This is one of my Win/Linux cross over projects: https://sourceforge.net/projects/jtsdk/
[08:21] <lotuspsychje> cool!
[08:22] <ki7mt> Checkout the features, that instal has: Mingw in one env, MSYS in another env, Cygwin in another, can compile Python2 and 3 apps, Plus QT5 apps.
[08:23] <lotuspsychje>     QT5 + mingw32 (GCC 4.8.0) winpthread Tool Chain
[08:23] <lotuspsychje>     MinGW32 (GCC 4.8.1) pthread Tool Chain
[08:23] <lotuspsychje>     MSYS Base Environment + Autotools
[08:23] <lotuspsychje>     Cygwin x86/32bit Bash, Gnu Coreutils, Git, SVN + much more ...
[08:23] <lotuspsychje>     Python2 / Python3 with Tcl/Tk in Seperate Environments
[08:23] <lotuspsychje>     InnoSetup and NSIS Installer Build Applications
[08:23] <lotuspsychje>     Build Scripts for WSJT, WSJT-X, WSPR, WSPR-X and MAP65
[08:23] <lotuspsychje>     Build Scripts for All WSJT Documentation
[08:23] <lotuspsychje>     Supports Win32/64 and Linux x86/x86_64
[08:23] <lotuspsychje> nice list
[08:23] <ki7mt> Yeah, was a PITA to get working on Windows
[08:23] <lotuspsychje> lolz
[08:23] <ki7mt> I wrote all of the custome /etc/skel stuff and all the build scripts in DOS !!! major nightmare.
[08:24] <lotuspsychje> sounds crazy
[08:24] <ki7mt> But I do have a slick Cygwin installer script though, fully automated.
[08:24] <ki7mt> Yeah, this is even more crazy ..
[08:24] <lotuspsychje> yeah im also a handy package fan
[08:24] <ki7mt> It was all done so I could get the apps ported to Linux
[08:24] <lotuspsychje> to ease up our linux life
[08:26] <ki7mt> Oh yeah, and the scripts also built the Win32 installers, for the applications they compile, that was an interesting learnign curve :-) I did all the InnoSetp, the other Devs did the NSIS
[08:26] <lotuspsychje> :p
[08:27] <ki7mt> But, the guy that is the Main developer, Joe (K1JT), he's a Nobel Prize Winning Astrophysicists .. so I was happy to help
[08:27] <ki7mt> It's not every day you get to interact to a Nobel prize dude
[08:28] <lotuspsychje> :p:p
[08:28] <lotuspsychje> gotta split mate breakfast with wife
[08:28] <lotuspsychje> see you next interesting discussion :p
[08:28] <ki7mt> This dud has won more awards the Forest Gump: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Hooton_Taylor,_Jr.
[08:28] <ki7mt> .. dude ..
[08:28] <lotuspsychje> bbl :p
[08:29] <ki7mt> Ok, I need to go get ready for my UBuntu Menbership Interview... CUL
[08:29] <lotuspsychje> yayyy
[13:16] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[18:29] <lotuspsychje> evening to all
[18:29] <daftykins> o/
[18:29] <daftykins> greets
[18:29] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: hello mate :p
[18:29] <lotuspsychje> hows it going?
[18:29] <daftykins> all the better for not being in #ubuntu right now that's for sure ;)
[18:29] <daftykins> but yep all good here thanks - and yourself?
[18:30] <lotuspsychje> great, whats happening in main?
[18:30] <daftykins> ah i just got tired of the trolls last night
[18:30] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:30] <OerHeks> Hi lotuspsychje daftykins
[18:30] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: hello
[18:30] <daftykins> \o
[18:30] <OerHeks> this brad dude too, wants to install on external usb3
[18:31] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: he's on here since this morning
[18:31] <daftykins> ah that one was in yesterday
[18:31] <daftykins> :D
[18:32] <daftykins> in some ways i suppose you have to admire those that are willing to take multiple days to get ubuntu on their machine
[18:32] <daftykins> that guest Eric had been helping seems to have taken a week
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> roflol
[18:32] <lotuspsychje> yeah i told eric he's being following by shadow trolss
[18:32] <daftykins> :D
[18:34] <lotuspsychje> and nobody use !who anymore
[18:34] <lotuspsychje> looks like a jungle out there
[18:36] <OerHeks> If you can stand helping in #ubuntu, you sure would earn a job.
[18:36] <daftykins> i love the smell of napalm in the morning.
[18:36] <OerHeks> .. wait ... i am jobless
[18:37] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: lol
[18:37] <lotuspsychje> 1st line helpdesk linux $$$$$$$$$
[18:37] <OerHeks> No, 2nd line pls
[18:37] <lotuspsychje> loool
[18:38] <OerHeks> let the 1st write down something usefull
[18:38] <lotuspsychje> its more like 10 lines at the same time :p
[18:38] <daftykins> assuming it can be extracted from the helpee unakin to blood from a stone ;)
[18:38] <lotuspsychje> Liebknecht: hi
[18:38] <OerHeks> :-)
[18:39] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: eric was installing snappy on qemu the other day
[18:40] <lotuspsychje> fooling around a bit
[18:40] <Liebknecht> lotuspsychje: huh
[18:40] <Liebknecht> hai*
[18:40] <lotuspsychje> Liebknecht: ah we thought you were idling :p
[18:40] <lotuspsychje> you are alive!
[18:40] <OerHeks> tgm is now in snappy, working on something.
[18:41] <lotuspsychje> !info tgm
[18:41] <OerHeks> i follow that stuff too
[18:41] <lotuspsychje> whats tgm
[18:41] <Liebknecht> Sorry I've been really busy
[18:41] <Liebknecht> :P
[18:41] <OerHeks> err no, ubuntu member Thomas <tgm4883>
[18:41] <lotuspsychje> Liebknecht: no sweat
[18:41] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: ah!
[18:42] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: did you read that article on apt-get will use snappy?
[18:42] <OerHeks> Yes, awesome.
[18:43] <lotuspsychje> sounds a rocksolid idea
[18:43] <OerHeks> Next step, after DM, packaging.
[18:43] <lotuspsychje> but the cloud, i dont like too much
[18:44] <lotuspsychje> the idea of data get stored on remote frightens me
[18:45] <Liebknecht> lotuspsychje: I've also been bouncing from Ubuntu, Win10, and Arch
[18:45] <Liebknecht> I should just get 1TB drives and put them all on my system haha
[18:45] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:46] <OerHeks> i love this rant > http://www.networkworld.com/article/2923882/opensource-subnet/ubuntus-shuttleworths-call-to-arms-in-open-source-stirs-up-controversy.html
[18:46] <lotuspsychje> Liebknecht: hows arch these days?
[18:46] <Liebknecht> lotuspsychje: easier to install
[18:46] <Liebknecht> lotuspsychje: Much, much easier
[18:46] <OerHeks> not the rant, but you will read an interest and admire in that story
[18:47] <OerHeks> :-D
[18:49] <daftykins> lawl arch
[18:54] <ki7mt> daftykins, Can I send you a quick pm ?
[18:56] <daftykins> er sure
[19:10]  * lotuspsychje_ doesnt like timeouts oO
[19:38] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: no guest users follwing you, its all clear :p
[19:38] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: hehe
[19:39] <daftykins> i had highlights from that guy too
[19:39] <lotuspsychje> lol
[19:39] <daftykins> i didn't really get why he/she had so many issues installing
[19:40] <EriC^^> who?
[19:40] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: that guest you helped so long
[19:40] <EriC^^> oh, guest212121212
[19:40] <daftykins> the one with the kernel panic on boot, seemed to be getting into a real mess with EFI vs. legacy early on?
[19:40] <daftykins> yeah
[19:56] <ki7mt> why do people insist on using the root account on a Sudo system
[19:56] <lotuspsychje> dont have a clue
[19:56] <lotuspsychje> thats asking for trouble
[19:57] <ki7mt> Yeah, I know, but this guys thinks it's ok.
[19:58] <lotuspsychje> lol
[19:58] <lotuspsychje> no wonder things break so much
[20:01] <lotuspsychje> ki7mt: i wonder why he needs that file anyway lib..
[20:03] <daftykins> oh dear you've not got back that one that runs X as root?
[20:03] <lotuspsychje> lol
[20:03] <lotuspsychje> yes we do
[20:03] <daftykins> ugh, what was the nick?
[20:04] <lotuspsychje> fxmulder
[20:04] <daftykins> hrmm must've changed
[20:04] <lotuspsychje> well he apt-get install a lib with root
[20:05] <ki7mt> The problem is, dpkg / apt-get authiticates through the sudoers file, root, is not in there %admin is, and his sudo admin user.
[20:05] <ki7mt> Under an account that is, it's in there as a user
[20:06] <ki7mt> Like so: # Allow members of group sudo to execute any command: %sudo	ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL
[20:09] <EriC^^> ki7mt: that shouldn't matter
[20:10] <ki7mt> But if root is not in that group, when dpkg / apt-get tries to authenticate it will fail would it not?
[20:10] <EriC^^> i dont think it authenticate, it just runs the program with uid=0
[20:11] <EriC^^> we always install stuff from chroots and you're root there
[20:12] <ki7mt> That's from like a LiveCD or something right?
[20:12] <EriC^^> yeah
[20:12] <EriC^^> in debian you don't automatically get a sudo'd user and you can install stuff as root too
[20:13] <ki7mt> or on a bootstrap install where (sudo, the application) has not been installed to the user space /usr/bin etc
[20:13] <ki7mt> Yes, Debian is different.
[20:13] <lotuspsychje> but apt-get isnt meant to be runned by root on ubuntu right EriC^^
[20:13] <lotuspsychje> sudo instead?
[20:13] <ki7mt> Not on Debian, you use root unless you install sudo
[20:14] <EriC^^> why not? it literally doesn't use any environment variables of the user
[20:15] <EriC^^> sudo is a suid program > runs apt-get for you with uid=0
[20:15] <lotuspsychje> doesnt it hold a security risk when your root instead of sudo
[20:16] <EriC^^> how so?
[20:16] <lotuspsychje> vunrable package perhaps or whatever
[20:16] <ki7mt> Yes, thats is where I think it gets hung up when you enable the root account, somehow, exactly where Im not sure. But I've hit this same issue, many times and never found the exact reason why.
[20:16] <EriC^^> it's the same as running it as root, except sudo might use a different environment that's passed to apt-get
[20:17] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: same thing, if the package had some type of vulnerability it would still have uid=0, actually with sudo it might be worse cause it might know the user you use
[20:17] <lotuspsychje> i see
[20:24] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: but if someone takes over the system tru lets say vnc, and sees the terminal with root...he could do nasty things right
[20:25] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: yeah, i'm not saying logging in as root is a good thing at all
[20:25] <EriC^^> just that using apt-get as root won't break anything
[20:25] <lotuspsychje> okay
[20:26] <EriC^^> logging in as root is pretty stupid, i guess except someone has a good reason or something
[20:26] <lotuspsychje> never tryed it myself :p
[20:26] <EriC^^> hehe
[20:26] <ki7mt> I have and paid the price for it .. LOL .. reimaged the box shortly after :-)
[20:27] <lotuspsychje> lol
[20:27] <ki7mt> I needed something for a web-server custom compile, and stupidly followed a how too .. bad idea !
[20:29] <ki7mt> Here's another example, broken box, via activating root user: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1877557
[20:29] <lotuspsychje> only bad news indeed
[20:30] <lotuspsychje> unless like EriC^^ says, you have a real good reason and know what your doing
[20:30] <ki7mt> that's pretty old though, but Im sure there are more rescent examples to be found .. lol
[20:30] <EriC^^> yeah chown -R myuser: / will break things :P
[20:30] <EriC^^> it's pretty easy to make a mistake if you're logged in as root all the time
[20:30] <ki7mt> I do, when Im on a real root system, no problem, but this RootSudo stuff, man I avoid it like the plague
[20:30] <lotuspsychje> true
[20:31] <EriC^^> let me delete some stuff ... rm -r * , oh crap why is my desktop disintegrating
[20:31] <lotuspsychje> loool
[20:31] <ki7mt> LOL yeah, clean out the ole trash bin in /
[20:32] <lotuspsychje> on windows you dont even need to be logged in as admin, rootkits find their way in anywayz
[20:32] <ki7mt> Yeah, the hacks bust it for you, dont have to do anything at all normally :-)
[20:33] <lotuspsychje> i read lot of security news, its crazy what they can do these days
[20:33] <lotuspsychje> its like the whole world is one botnet
[20:33] <ki7mt> At least with *Nix, if I bust it, I got no one else to blame :-)
[20:34] <lotuspsychje> ki7mt: i recently scanned with clamav as test, its database holds those recent linux exploits too
[20:34] <ki7mt> Yeah, I dont enable anythiny in browsers and all email is txt . no HTML
[20:34] <lotuspsychje> lol oldskool lynx style
[20:34] <ki7mt> Yeah, Lynx rules !!
[20:34] <lotuspsychje> !info links
[20:35] <lotuspsychje> thats a nice one
[20:35] <ki7mt> I think Links is the oldest browser out there, or at least close to it.
[20:35] <lotuspsychje> i downloaded music livesets on soundcloud with it without lags :p
[20:36] <ki7mt> Lynx and Midnight Commander Babe :-)
[20:36] <lotuspsychje> :p:p
[20:36] <lotuspsychje> and a green on black terminal
[20:36] <ki7mt> That's all I need really, if I could learn how to use IRSSI I'd use that too.
[20:36] <lotuspsychje> i dont find irssi handy
[20:36] <lotuspsychje> xchat all the way here
[20:37] <lotuspsychje> also green on black
[20:37] <ki7mt> Iv'e tried, allot, but I just can't get the hang of it.
[20:37] <lotuspsychje> to change channels with ctrl
[20:37] <lotuspsychje> bit unhandy
[20:37] <ki7mt> Some guys say it the best there is, and there's a stupid number of modules / plugins for it
[20:38] <lotuspsychje> :p
[20:38] <ki7mt> Ive probably spent more time messing with plugins than actually using it, prob why I sux at it.
[20:38] <lotuspsychje> :p
[20:39] <ki7mt> where did the root guy go .. seems he left
[20:40] <lotuspsychje> he broke his system :p
[20:41] <ki7mt> It's definately Borked', how bad, nobody knows.
[20:41] <ki7mt> It really annoys me that I can't find why enabling that account causes the problem.
[20:42] <EriC^^> ki7mt: you mean enabling the root account as in setting a password for it?
[20:42] <EriC^^> or doing sudo -i; then typing apt-get install something?
[20:43] <ki7mt> Enabling the root account, why that breaks things
[20:44] <lotuspsychje> ki7mt: http://oi57.tinypic.com/fub3o3.jpg
[20:44] <ki7mt> Ok, that's cool .. that's about how smart I feel on this root issue :-)
[20:44] <lotuspsychje> lol
[20:45] <lotuspsychje> mooo
[20:45] <ki7mt> Yeahh, Mooooooo
[20:45] <ki7mt> we have plenty of that around my place here thousands of Moooo Cows
[20:45] <lotuspsychje> i bet my country has more
[20:45] <ki7mt> I dont know
[20:45] <lotuspsychje> .be
[20:46] <lotuspsychje> you?
[20:46] <ki7mt> Montana
[20:46] <lotuspsychje> i loose
[20:46] <lotuspsychje> more cows in usa
[20:46] <lotuspsychje> so far for quality ubuntu discussions oO
[20:48] <OerHeks> Moo
[20:48] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: lol
[21:05] <lotuspsychje> nite nite