[02:26] <OvenWerks> zequence: Re: categories. Ardour as it comes from the ardour site has: AudioVideo, Audio, AudioEditing and Recorder
[02:27] <OvenWerks> as it comes in ubuntu (via debian of course) only has AudioVideo and Audio.
[02:27] <holstein> how do other folks deal with this?
[02:27] <holstein> just break the standards?
[02:28] <OvenWerks> I am guessing Lintian complains about non-standard words
[02:28] <holstein> seems like, it *has* to be common enough to get the desktop standards to have catagories for pro-audio
[02:28] <OvenWerks> holstein: it is what we do.
[02:28] <holstein> seemes like, it could be implemented up there, then, the creators of the applications can do what they want
[02:29] <holstein> of course, i suppose, this is just going to sunset, anyways
[02:29] <OvenWerks> I don't know where to go with it though.
[02:29] <holstein> unity doesnt really follow this kind of thing.. and gnome..
[02:29] <holstein> OvenWerks: i know, right?!
[02:29] <holstein> seems like others must have this issue
[02:29] <OvenWerks> Yes but a lot of people have walked away from those just because of no menu.
[02:29] <holstein> mythbuntu..
[02:30] <holstein> sure would be nice to maintain the menu *and* do whatever else they are doing
[02:30] <OvenWerks> Gnome now has a menu as a module
[02:30] <holstein> i just havent configured gnome enough to know
[02:30] <OvenWerks> look at KDE though, you can have your choice of doing app finding in about 5 ways
[02:30] <holstein> yup
[02:31] <holstein> not sure if thats "better", but, its nice to have the options
[02:31] <OvenWerks> including the old win95 style xdg menu.
[02:31] <OvenWerks> xfce has a lot more users too.
[02:32] <holstein> xfce, lxde, mate..
[02:32] <holstein> cinammon, too.. right?
[02:32] <holstein> it has a menu?
[02:32] <OvenWerks> yup.
[02:32] <OvenWerks> All of those things showed up because of gnomes loosing the menu.
[02:32] <holstein> i think personally, its a bit like google gmail.. folders vs labels
[02:33] <holstein> its nice to have things able to be in multiple catagories
[02:33] <holstein> but, it certainly wouldnt hurt to have sane defaults
[02:33] <holstein> and it seems like we should be able to have that represented upstream.. get the desktop standards we need
[02:33] <holstein> then, ardour could just be marked as they want it to be
[02:33] <OvenWerks> The thing is sane should be desided by someone who uses the applications.
[02:34] <holstein> agreed
[02:34] <holstein> its worth getting right, for sure
[02:34] <OvenWerks> I think a lot of these things are decided by desktop browser users and gamers
[02:35] <OvenWerks> I think there are over ten sub game categories
[02:36] <holstein> OvenWerks: is that in the standards?
[02:36] <holstein> if so, i think we can get what we need there, as well.. wont hurt to ask, for sure..
[02:36] <holstein> it wont help with what you are doing now.. but, it would help in the future
[02:37] <holstein> thats the kind of thing i would expect to take a cycle or 2.. but, if it were done properly, then, creators of the apps just flag as they want
[02:37] <holstein> should "just work", like the games do or can
[02:37] <OvenWerks> there are 12 game subs in the spec.
[02:38] <OvenWerks> 13 for office
[02:39] <holstein> this is something i should be able to take on.. at least finding out who to talk to up there
[02:40] <holstein> i'll let you know directly if i get any action
[02:40] <OvenWerks> 7 for audio... 
[02:40] <OvenWerks> I think xdg has a mailing list.
[02:41] <OvenWerks> The 7 for audio are so so. Tuner is not to useful for us.
[02:41] <holstein> TBH, it breaks pretty quickly for me
[02:41] <holstein> the menu
[02:42] <holstein> i have a hard time finding things like brasero
[02:42] <holstein> if im burning an iso.. a distro iso, for example.. thats not an audio task
[02:42] <holstein> not that folks burn iso's to optical media anymore ;)
[02:42] <OvenWerks> But I think some things from non-audio might be useful too...
[02:43] <holstein> but, you know what i mean.. putting audacity in a "workflow" for more than one thing might make more sense
[02:43] <holstein> yup
[02:43] <OvenWerks> people selling something use cd/dvd
[02:43] <holstein> or, inkscape for a logo, or cd graphic
[02:43] <holstein> its the reason why folks are leaving the menu. and i get that
[02:44] <OvenWerks> Well it seems we are merging some of the graphics things.
[02:44] <holstein> still, sane, relevant defaults would be fine
[02:44] <holstein> not "tuner"
[02:44] <OvenWerks> music is under education, but not audio...
[02:45] <holstein> yeah, thats for someone who went there and made it happen.. liks solfege.. or tuxguitar..
[02:45] <OvenWerks> ImageProcessing is under Education or Science
[02:45] <holstein> who knows
[02:46] <OvenWerks> Math is under education too... so there the libre spreadsheet
[02:46] <holstein> we will have that issue as well
[02:47] <OvenWerks> education has a lot, 25 or 30
[02:47] <holstein> if we have "audio" - "production" and then, a video production, and have something that needs to be in both places
[02:47] <holstein> i know mate plans to have some "spins" as well
[02:47] <holstein> one for podcasting
[02:47] <holstein> live streaming..
[02:48] <holstein> we should keep an eye on that, and let some of that go, on our end
[02:48] <OvenWerks> That would be audacity :)  
[02:48] <holstein> a new audacity, as well
[02:48] <holstein> i havent checked it out..
[02:48] <OvenWerks> Does it do jack right?
[02:49] <OvenWerks> Jack is audacity's biggest stummble in my opinion
[02:49] <holstein> not sure.. im adding the daily ppa right now
[02:49] <holstein> well, i always agrue, if one is using audacity, and jack, then, they need to likely be using ardour instead
[02:49] <holstein> or, they dont really need jack
[02:50] <OvenWerks> pulse is known for just dropping samples it can't deal with silently
[02:50] <OvenWerks> or being out of sync with itself.
[02:51] <holstein> ive never had any issues, but, i dont use it that way much
[02:51] <OvenWerks> for recording where ardour is too much, mhwaveedit works great.
[02:51] <holstein> if im tracking something, im using jack and ardour/mixbus
[02:51] <holstein> agreed.. mhwaveedit is nice and light
[02:52] <OvenWerks> It is normally one of the first things I add to STudio.
[02:52] <holstein> i used to use it a lot
[02:52] <OvenWerks> Audacity has a few nice noise removal tools
[02:53] <OvenWerks> at least better than anything else in the Linux world that I can find.
[02:53] <holstein> they supposedly got better
[02:53] <OvenWerks> So I use Audacity on files I got from elsewhere.
[02:55] <holstein> yup.. as an editor
[02:55] <OvenWerks> I still miss GCDMaster.
[02:55] <OvenWerks> I have yet to get as good results from Ardour
[03:14] <OvenWerks> There are a lot of audio apps that are just AudioVideo, Audio
[03:14] <OvenWerks> MIDI shows up as well on anything that has one line of MIDI code in it  :P
[03:16] <holstein> a midi catagory would be tough..
[03:17] <holstein> if someone wanted to use qtractor as their DAW, or whatever
[03:17] <OvenWerks> If sequencer was there as well
[03:17] <OvenWerks> It would still be doable.
[03:19] <OvenWerks> AudioVideoEditing is fine if there is also audio or video.
[03:22] <OvenWerks> Audio is not-video
[03:27] <OvenWerks> Guitarix is AudioVideo, Midi but no Audio :P
[03:28] <holstein> ;)
[03:29] <OvenWerks> zequence: MenuLibre so long as you don't finalize anything with it is pretty good for looking at Categories. It shows the Categories of any application in the menu.
[03:31] <OvenWerks> zequence: MenuLibre shows up in our menu as Accessories -> Menu Editor
[08:13] <sakrecoer> maybe i should ask in #blender if anyone can contribute with a scrtipt.py video entry launcher?
[08:14] <sakrecoer> it can't ber very hard.. but i know close to nothing in python and the blender log isn't showing what happens when i change the mode...
[08:36] <sakrecoer> i think i found how :)
[08:37] <sakrecoer> yee! dead easy :)
[08:37] <sakrecoer> i saved an empty .blend in VSE mode. and launched it from the terminal
[08:38] <sakrecoer> $~ blender vse.blend and voila!
[08:39] <sakrecoer> hmm... acutaly... thats not that great....
[08:39] <sakrecoer> if the user hits save the startup file is dead...
[08:39] <sakrecoer> solly solly :( false alarm
[09:30] <zequence> sakrecoer: Can you start it in video mode using command line options?
[09:31] <sakrecoer> zequence: i'm investigating it... there is this python string displayed when you hover the mode selector: bpy.data.screens["Video Editing"].name
[09:31] <sakrecoer> but i don't really know what to do with it :D
[09:32] <sakrecoer> i'm thinking i will try to find a way on my own and ask in #blender if i don't succeed...
[09:37] <zequence> OvenWerks: The next step in this whole thing is to make changes to all multimedia packages upstream (I have access to the code), and make sure the categories are all good
[09:37] <zequence> ..well, I have access to the debian-multimedia repos, but not upstream for each application
[09:37] <zequence> We need to start a kind of campaign to get all that fixed
[09:38] <zequence> Also, we should try adding new categories to the freedesktop standard
[09:38] <zequence> But, there's much more to do, actually
[09:39] <zequence> How do different Debian based application search/install tools filter applications?
[09:39] <zequence> In Ubuntu, this is fairly close to how desktop files are displayed in the menu
[09:40] <zequence> In the long run, the menu will become more of an obstacle than a helper though, and I feel like the whole desktop category part will be outdated
[09:41] <zequence> So, it may be better to develop our own application starter tool. One which in the long run can also work as a workflow-app, not just a static menu
[09:43] <zequence> Application starter/installer/workflow app
[09:45] <zequence> It really depends on how far we want to go. I really would like to sort all of this out at the root, as much as possible. NOt only "within the family"
[09:46] <zequence> "within the family" is not a job for Ubuntu Studio. There are other distros like that: AVLinux, KXStudio, to name two
[10:07] <zequence> I keep realizing the same problem with customization. The more you customize, the more it will only work under certain circumstances. 
[10:07] <zequence> And, that is not good.
[10:10] <sakrecoer> yeah... i feel you haha! i've come to a point where i feel a bit lost in translations...
[10:11] <sakrecoer> lunch, work and a nap on that and i'm sure something interesting will happen :D
[10:14] <zequence> sakrecoer: It's not as simple as it seems, for sure
[10:14] <zequence> And, since we do have an opportunity to make something really worth while, we shouldn't be too hasty either
[10:16] <sakrecoer> yeah! wise words zequence! :) nor lazy neither hasty! :) i like that state of mind!
[10:17] <sakrecoer> I'm off! looking forward to read you!
[10:27] <zequence> OvenWerks: Would be interesting to see how far we can go with just using the include/exclude commands in the menu file for the categories
[10:27] <zequence> Also means that we probably need to make some adjustments to desktop files
[10:57] <zequence> OvenWerks: lxqt, if you want to have a try beforehand http://sourceforge.net/projects/manjarolinux/files/community/LXQT/2015.02/
[20:28] <OvenWerks> zequence: I found that include/exclude did not work for all DEs all the time. I had to use a lot of and and not to get it to work on lxde (I think was the hard one). But yes, the concept is right, with proper categories, it should be possible to filter audiovideo, audiovideoeditor into video or audio so long as the audio or video category is included.
[20:29] <OvenWerks> zequence: it should be possible to take something that has audio and uility and make it appear in an audio submenu and not in accessories.
[20:30] <OvenWerks> One has to get those categories into the desktop file to begin with though.
[21:03] <zequence> OvenWerks: Yes, but getting the categories into desktop files is not a huge problem for us. At least not, theoretically.
[21:03] <zequence> We need to have good reason to change a lot of sources upstream for that