[09:02] <Kilos> hi elfy  and everyone else
[15:00] <sil2100> o/
[15:01] <caribou> o/
[15:02] <robru> hi
[15:02] <chiluk> o/
[15:03] <cyphermox> hello!
[15:03] <barry> i guess slangasek is still stuck in his meeting?
[15:04]  * slangasek waves
[15:05] <jodh> o/
[15:05] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:05] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 21 15:05:24 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:05] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:05] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lighting round
[15:05] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity mvo sil2100 robru cyphermox)
[15:05] <slangasek> cyphermox infinity bdmurray stgraber sil2100 caribou mvo doko barry jodh slangasek robru
[15:05] <cyphermox> I win!
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * moar grub2 triage
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * discussions with Tony on how to deal with NM>ofono bugs.
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * discussion on versioning for NM with phone overlay
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * debugging NM routing bug; almost done (still has an extra no-metric network route)
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * Monday was a national holiday
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * grub2 cherry-picks (in debian git)
[15:06] <cyphermox>    * Fix handling of --disk-module option (debian 746596, bug 1309735)
[15:06] <cyphermox>    * Fix double-free of LV names for mdraid (bug 1330963)
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * debug grub2-signed chaining when multiple bootable media are available (bug 1097570)
[15:06] <cyphermox>  * considering merging tzsetup:
[15:06] <cyphermox>    - looked at it, reviewed server oem setup
[15:06] <cyphermox> (done)
[15:08] <slangasek> no infinity?
[15:08] <slangasek> bdmurray:
[15:08] <bdmurray> modified errors to reduce number of releases shown in legend so we can see more of it
[15:08] <bdmurray> modified daisy to log more information when encountering a MaximumRetryException
[15:08] <bdmurray> call regarding assets.ubuntu.com and errors.u.c use of it
[15:08] <bdmurray> worked with pitti / jibel regarding autopkg tests for utopic being in progress
[15:08] <bdmurray> worked on launchpad ddeb grabbing in apport
[15:08] <bdmurray> talked to ci about boottest failures for vivid and proposed-migration
[15:08] <bdmurray> tested whoopsie on wily live cd
[15:08] <bdmurray> investigation into python-pip - LP: #1324391
[15:08] <bdmurray> overrode python-pip regressions for phased updater
[15:08] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[15:09] <sil2100> No stgraber?
[15:10] <caribou> ODS I suppose ?
[15:10] <stgraber> sorry, around
[15:10] <sil2100> o/
[15:10] <stgraber> I've been doing LXD stuff all this time, well, that and sprinting and vacation.
[15:10] <stgraber> (done)
[15:10] <sil2100> \o/
[15:10] <sil2100> This week more or less:
[15:10] <sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
[15:10] <sil2100> - Created a list of channels as per the new channel rearrangements
[15:10] <sil2100> - Synced the new info to the developer.ubuntu.com channel webpage
[15:10] <sil2100> - RTM status meetings and discussions
[15:10] <sil2100> - Preparations for OTA-4
[15:10] <sil2100> - Updating various parts of the landing documentation
[15:10] <sil2100> - CI Train development:
[15:10] <sil2100>   * Fixed syncing code to work for the new landing schemas
[15:10] <sil2100>   * Started poking on possible dual-landing approaches
[15:11] <sil2100> - System-image server:
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Helped Barry with the system-image server .es alias/redirect madness
[15:11] <sil2100>   * Picked up dropped branch for keep-orphaned
[15:11] <sil2100> - Updated landing tracker scripts to stop caring about RTM
[15:11] <sil2100> - Work on enabling commitlogs once again - not finished yet
[15:11] <sil2100> - Setup William's script to auto-close RTM bugs on overlay uploads
[15:11] <sil2100> - Added modifications to the script above to e-mail changes for uploads (like to MLs)
[15:11] <sil2100> - Sent out bi-monthly status update to Alan for the EOW podcast
[15:11] <sil2100> (done)
[15:11] <caribou> Bugfix:
[15:11] <caribou>  - Squid deb proxy startup race condition (Bug: 1456662)
[15:11] <caribou>   * Found tentative solution with mvo's help. Need to talk to maas
[15:11] <caribou>      before SRU
[15:11] <caribou>  - kdump startup issues with runlevel S
[15:11] <caribou>   * CEPH startup seems to be the culprit. Still starts even before
[15:11] <caribou>      runlevel is issued
[15:12] <caribou>  - makedumpfile kernel support
[15:12] <caribou>    * Investigate "unsupported
[15:12] <caribou> kernel" messages
[15:12] <caribou> (done)
[15:14] <slangasek> and no mvo, so doko:
[15:15] <slangasek> we'll come back to doko
[15:15] <slangasek> barry:
[15:15] <barry> si: LP: #1455119; LP: #1455077; LP: #1454447; si client 3.0 (finally!) landed in wily; convert si client vcs to git
[15:16] <barry> debuntu: python-lockfile sponsorship; debian bug #785242; debian bug #785059; debian bug #785633 (still unresolved); python-cachecontrol 0.11.4-1; distlib packaging converted to git and moved to lp:~pythoneers (w/ 0.2.0-2 uploaded); DPMT git migration script work
[15:16] <barry> other: bisect dist-upgrades and discovered wily regression in unity (LP: #1456761)
[15:16] <barry> --done--
[15:17] <jodh> * upstart
[15:17] <jodh>   - Testing and process to get the fix for bug 1447756 landed for the
[15:17] <jodh>     next touch OTA. Thanks to sil2100 for all his help!
[15:17] <jodh> * snappy
[15:17] <jodh>   - Improving tests for upgrader and selftest.
[15:17] <jodh> * misc
[15:17] <jodh>   - Out Monday-Wednesday next week.
[15:17] <jodh> ???
[15:18] <slangasek> is that an end marker? :)
[15:18] <jodh> sorry, locale issues :)
[15:19] <jodh> but yes, an end marker of sorts
[15:19] <slangasek> haha, ok
[15:19] <cyphermox> jodh: move on to ascii art.
[15:19] <slangasek>  * phone work:
[15:19] <jodh> cyphermox: :D
[15:19] <slangasek>   * some work reviewing/shepherding bug #1447756
[15:19] <slangasek>   * reconfiguring the phone channels per the proposed naming scheme earlier, to coincide with the move to wily
[15:20] <slangasek>   * worked with ondra on a cache corruption bug #1455605 when a user downloads images from both public and private system-image servers
[15:20] <slangasek>   * will be rotating the signing key for system-images today
[15:20] <slangasek>   * after that, have one more round of channel renames to finish, probably not today
[15:20] <slangasek>  * off tomorrow and Monday for Memorial Day, back Tuesday
[15:20] <slangasek> (done)
[15:20] <slangasek> robru:
[15:20] <robru> CI Train spreadsheet replacement:
[15:20] <robru> * several iterations of the charm
[15:20] <robru>   - configured for apache2 reverseproxy setup
[15:20] <robru>   - setting up to launch gunicorn effectively
[15:20] <robru>   - fixed a pile of runtime permission issues
[15:20] <robru> * backported gunicorn3, python3-flask-openid, python3-openid to trusty-cat-ue
[15:20] <robru> * lp:canonical-mojo-specs
[15:20] <robru>   - tons of fiddly little work enabling and integrating new spreadsheet replacement charm
[15:20] <robru> * various landings as usual
[15:20] <robru> (done)
[15:20] <sil2100> robru: bileto looking nice so far!
[15:20] <robru> sil2100: thanks!
[15:21] <slangasek> :)
[15:21] <slangasek> alright
[15:21] <slangasek> so no infinity doko or mvo showing up
[15:21] <slangasek> any questions on the above?
[15:21] <cyphermox> I assume bileto is the name for the new spreadsheet?
[15:21] <robru> cyphermox: yep
[15:22] <cyphermox> cool.
[15:22] <sil2100> cyphermox: yes, since calling it 'spreadsheet replacement' all the time was really a bit sad ;)
[15:22] <barry> robru: what's the eta for no-spreadsheet?
[15:22] <barry> or is that bileto?
[15:22] <robru> barry: tough to say. there's lots of little fiddly bits to iron out, and some other priorities just popped up. but Soon(TM)
[15:22] <sil2100> barry: it's bileto, that's the codename alright
[15:23] <slangasek> aha, an mvo!
[15:23] <slangasek> mvo:
[15:23] <mvo> did: vacation (yay), snappy work, little bit of apt work
[15:23] <mvo> (done)
[15:23] <barry> sil2100, robru we will have to pop some e-champagne on that day
[15:23] <slangasek> :-)
[15:23] <robru> barry: hell yes
[15:23] <mvo> sorry guys, conflicting meeting :/
[15:24] <slangasek> e-champagne?  how do you put champagne in an e-cigarette?
[15:24] <barry> slangasek: well, i've heard they have this powered alcohol now
[15:24] <robru> barry: it gives you quite the buzz
[15:25] <barry> robru: git gives me all the buzz i need
[15:25] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:25] <sil2100> I say that instead of bileto what we really should do is implement our own google spreadsheet, and make our train spreadsheet working on that!
[15:25] <barry> monday is a usa holiday; i'll be out
[15:26] <bdmurray> as will I
[15:26] <cyphermox> sil2100: nah, sharing odf's is easier.
[15:26] <robru> sil2100: http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/twitchy.gif
[15:26] <sil2100> Uh oh!
[15:26] <doko> oops
[15:26] <slangasek> doko: hi
[15:26] <slangasek> want to update us?
[15:26] <barry> robru: is that a screen share?
[15:27] <slangasek> live video feed
[15:27] <robru> barry: yeah I found a way to share google hangouts in irc
[15:27] <doko> not much, basically openjdk-9 now in the archive, python3.5 in the archive, and still working on gcc-5
[15:27] <barry> doko: py3.5 -- \o/
[15:27] <sil2100> doko: any ETA on gcc-5?
[15:28] <doko> sil2100, as default?
[15:28] <sil2100> Yeah
[15:28] <doko> sil2100, start fixing ftbfs ...
[15:28] <sil2100> Since I saw uploads happening recently
[15:28] <sil2100> hah, ok, so unknown for now
[15:28] <sil2100> ;)
[15:28] <doko> no, not yet, currently documenting things in https://wiki.debian.org/GCC5
[15:29] <doko> but really, every fixed build failure would help
[15:30]  * slangasek nods
[15:30] <doko> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/pkgreport.cgi?tag=ftbfs-gcc-5;users=debian-gcc@lists.debian.org
[15:30] <slangasek> doko: can you remind us the current list of GCC5 build failures?  I was looking for it the other day and the latest that turned up in my search was from February
[15:30] <slangasek> doko: ah, maybe it's that :)
[15:30] <sil2100> I would volunteer to help, but I don't want to declare myself without being sure to have time
[15:31] <doko> slangasek, and see the two links at the bottom of the wiki package
[15:31] <slangasek> ok
[15:31] <sil2100> But I'll try to squeeze some cycles, wouldn't mind some C/C++ once in a while
[15:31] <doko> and build logs for the ubuntu builds are at http://people.canonical.com/~doko/tmp/test-rebuilds-20150402/
[15:32] <slangasek> ok - anything else today?
[15:34] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:34] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 21 15:34:04 2015 UTC.
[15:34] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-21-15.05.moin.txt
[15:34] <slangasek> ok, thanks all!
[15:34] <sil2100> o/
[15:34] <jodh> thanks!
[15:34] <barry> thanks!
[15:34] <sil2100> Thanks :)
[15:34] <caribou> thanks !
[15:34] <cyphermox> \o/
[15:35] <mvo> thanks!
[17:02] <mhall119> #startmeeting Ubuntu Community Council meeting
[17:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu May 21 17:02:41 2015 UTC.  The chair is mhall119. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:02] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[17:02] <mhall119> Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[17:02] <cprofitt> hello all
[17:03] <elfy> o/
[17:03] <mhall119> #chair czajkowski cprofitt elfy pleia2
[17:03] <meetingology> Current chairs: cprofitt czajkowski elfy mhall119 pleia2
[17:03] <mhall119> it seems I remember the meetingology commands
[17:03] <elfy> always useful
[17:03] <mhall119> we have nothing on our Agenda wiki for today
[17:04] <mhall119> is there anybody around who has a topic they would like to discuss with the Community Council?
[17:04] <elfy> ummm mhall119
[17:04] <elfy> Forums Council 17:00UTC 21st May / Core Apps/Phone 17:30UTC 21st May
[17:04] <elfy> that's today ;)
[17:04] <popey> Yeah mhall119!
[17:04] <mhall119> elfy: ah, that's down further on the page, sorry I didn't see it
[17:04] <elfy> :D
[17:04]  * popey rolls mhall119's mouse wheel a bit
[17:04] <mhall119> #topic Forums Council check-in
[17:05] <mhall119> anybody from the Forums Council here today?
[17:05] <elfy> I went and found the hat especially ...
[17:05] <cprofitt> popey: :-)
[17:05] <popey> suits you
[17:06] <elfy> only me mhall119 :)
[17:07] <elfy> pretty much all's good
[17:07] <mhall119> elfy: how has the forums activity been since the last checkin?
[17:07] <mhall119> elfy: any specific events or activities to share?
[17:07] <elfy> pretty much static month by month
[17:08] <elfy> we've just finished trying to get people involved in nominating themselves for mod team
[17:08] <mhall119> elfy: how successful was that?
[17:08] <elfy> that's not gone well really, not sure what we're going to do about that
[17:08] <elfy> pretty much the same as everywhere - hard to get people to want to 'leader' up
[17:09] <mhall119> what did you do to attract people?
[17:09] <elfy> threads - public and in the area members can see, blog post
[17:10] <czajkowski> elfy: and in general have the the FC seen an increase in users or is it just static ?
[17:10] <mhall119> elfy: how about directly asking people who you think would be a good mod if you can nominate them
[17:10] <mhall119> ?
[17:10] <elfy> czajkowski: mostly static - get increases at release time
[17:11] <elfy> mhall119: that is an option open to us still - but we're trying to make it a bit more open
[17:11] <mhall119> elfy: ack, but sometimes having a personal invite makes people more willing, we identified that in one of the UOS sessions earlier in the month
[17:12] <elfy> yes - and that's the way the forum has done it for 10 years
[17:12] <mhall119> ah, ok, so a public call is something new that's being tried?
[17:12] <elfy> yea
[17:12] <mhall119> ok
[17:13] <mhall119> elfy: any highlights or praises you'd like to give?
[17:13] <elfy> well - not brand new, we tried a while back - same
[17:13] <elfy> we're thinking on next steps
[17:14] <elfy> we still get people applying for membership via us - that's still working
[17:14] <cprofitt> elfy: what do you think might be causing people to now want to step up and be a moderator?
[17:14] <cprofitt> not
[17:15]  * mhall119 guesses inertia is the most likely cause
[17:15] <elfy> cprofitt: not sure - could be the process, could be them seeing the 'troublesome' ones
[17:15] <elfy> and that mhall119
[17:16] <elfy> the new supermod group's making transition for people to FC much easier all round
[17:16] <mhall119> elfy: is there anything the CC can do to help with recruiting mods, or anything else for the Forums?
[17:16] <elfy> not with Mods no
[17:16] <elfy> as far as anything else - we're pretty good thanks
[17:17] <elfy> rt's are always a bit of an issue - but other than bumping old ones
[17:17] <elfy> things sitting around for 6 months or more get to be annoying
[17:17] <elfy> just finding one ...
[17:17] <czajkowski> elfy: is there anything outstanding on rt or in general the CC can help with ?
[17:18] <elfy> https://rt.ubuntu.com/Ticket/Display.html?id=25642
[17:18] <mhall119> we can try and bump priority on RTs, or at least get some action on old ones
[17:18] <elfy> I opened that last October -seems that all that's required is edit a config file
[17:18] <elfy> we of course don't have that access anymore
[17:19] <czajkowski> ugh
[17:19] <czajkowski> mhall119: surely we can get some bump on that RT
[17:19] <czajkowski> October is a long time ago
[17:19] <mhall119> yup, I'll take an action item to do that
[17:20] <mhall119> #action mhall119 to request a response to RT#25642 for the Forums Council
[17:20] <meetingology> ACTION: mhall119 to request a response to RT#25642 for the Forums Council
[17:20] <elfy> 24227 - April last - mods can't set their own passwords
[17:21] <elfy> generally though - positive
[17:21] <czajkowski> elfy: as in april just gone ?
[17:21] <mhall119> elfy: you said 24228 was solved, is 24227 still open?
[17:21] <elfy> oh - sorry we're in May ... 2015
[17:22] <elfy> 24228 is nothing to do with us afaik
[17:22] <mhall119> #action mhall119 request a response to RT#24227 for Forums Council
[17:22] <meetingology> ACTION: mhall119 request a response to RT#24227 for Forums Council
[17:22] <mhall119> elfy: ok
[17:23] <mhall119> elfy: which is the most urgent?
[17:23] <elfy> 24227
[17:23] <mhall119> ok, I'll push for that one first
[17:23] <elfy> but I think this is tied up with http/https/sso - knotty problem
[17:23] <mhall119> elfy: anything else the FC is blocked on or waiting on?
[17:24] <elfy> nope
[17:24] <mhall119> anything else the FC would like to discuss during this meeting?
[17:24] <elfy> well - waiting, but I'd not be worrying about recent ones
[17:24] <elfy> nope - I'm good thanks mhall119
[17:24] <elfy> I can take the hat off now ;)
[17:25] <mhall119> elfy: if you get to where you feel you've waited long enough, ask the CC to escelate it
[17:25] <elfy> yep
[17:25] <mhall119> you don't need to wait for the next checkin :)
[17:25] <elfy> well no - but they hang around for so long we forget lol
[17:26] <mhall119> cprofitt: czajkowski pleia2 anything else to talk to the FC about?
[17:26] <czajkowski> narp all good
[17:27] <cprofitt> I am good
[17:27] <mhall119> thanks elfy for representing the FC today
[17:27] <czajkowski> elfy: shout earlir if the FC need help with RTs
[17:27] <elfy> czajkowski: :~)
[17:27] <czajkowski> seems crazy waiting that long
[17:28] <elfy> hard to know what else they're up to - mostly just a note on the ticket 'soon'orsomething helps
[17:28] <elfy> syrup under space bar apparently ...
[17:29] <mhall119> #topic Core Apps checkin
[17:29] <mhall119> popey: your turn
[17:29] <popey> o/
[17:29] <elfy> well if everyone is good - we can move on to popey fidgeting in the corner :)
[17:29] <popey> Yo, wassup?
[17:29] <elfy> hi popey :)
[17:29] <popey> I was passing time providing support in #ubuntu :)
[17:30] <popey> <uncomfortable silence>
[17:30] <elfy> oh yes - words
[17:30] <elfy> so - anything awesome you can tell us about Phone :)
[17:30] <mhall119> popey: ok, first off then, any notable activity on the core apps?
[17:31]  * mhall119 asks knowing there is
[17:31] <elfy> lol
[17:31] <popey> Ok, so we had UOS between last time we spoke and now
[17:31] <popey> Had a bunch of sessions for core apps
[17:31] <popey> Lots of discussion and planning done for the coming months.
[17:32] <popey> However, there's one overriding issue which I want to braindump at you.
[17:32] <popey> if you don't mind.
[17:32] <elfy> go for it
[17:32] <popey> Contribution is down, and it's quite hard to get more people involved and I have some theories why.
[17:32] <popey> 1) Some aspects (such as writing autopilot tests) are not exciting but incredibly dull, and hard to 'sell'
[17:33] <popey> 2) many people don't have a device.
[17:33] <popey> 1 we can work on, we can make the tests easier to write
[17:33] <popey> we can also find those strange people who like writing them
[17:33]  * popey looks at balloons 
[17:33] <popey> However, 2 is a bit harder.
[17:33] <cprofitt> yeah, I was a bit disappointed when I found my nexus 7 could not help test
[17:33] <elfy> if they were easy I would
[17:33] <popey> The knock on effect of people not having a device is that they don't feel empowered to help in many ways
[17:33] <popey> and they don't feel like they're scratching an itch
[17:34] <popey> e.g. "Why would I work on the Ubuntu music app on ubuntu phone, when I have an android phone"
[17:34] <popey> In the past, the desktop was 'easier' to get contributions to, because anyone could install it on any system
[17:34] <popey> The fact that we need to port to specific devices actually makes it hard to get devices for people
[17:34] <popey> especially when in some regions (USA) there's limited options (bq and meizu devices don't work well over there on all of their frequencies for example)
[17:35] <popey> Is this making sense?
[17:35] <mhall119> popey: do you forsee that getting easier once we have a usable Unity 8 desktop?
[17:35] <czajkowski> popey: it is
[17:35] <elfy> popey: yep
[17:35] <popey> Ok.
[17:35] <popey> Well, there's a few things that will help.
[17:35] <popey> more devices being available, and having a better end user experience helps
[17:35] <popey> as people will be more inclined to use them as their daily driver
[17:36] <popey> if you use it daily and you notice janky things, you're way more likely to file bugs / patches / translations / documentation
[17:36] <popey> we have seen this on the ubuntu-phone list
[17:36] <popey> there's people writing their own documentation, prototyping apps, translating things etc
[17:36] <popey> all things we used to get lots of contributions for on the desktop
[17:36] <popey> but at a MUCH smaller scale
[17:37] <popey> because few people have the devices. and those that do, don't use it daily, so don't see the issues, or don't feel motivated to fix them
[17:37] <popey> Now, this leads ot a bit of a chicken and egg issue.
[17:37] <popey> I feel like ubuntu phone is where ubuntu desktop was in ~2005
[17:37] <popey> works well for a subset of users, on specific hardware.
[17:38] <popey> Oh, and another thing!
[17:38] <popey> many regular contributors to ubuntu are students - people who traditionally have limited desposable income
[17:38] <popey> so they often (generalising here) make the best of the equipment they have
[17:39] <czajkowski> popey: it's a daft idea but why not organise some some of phone jam - where you or others bring along hand sets and people play with them and use them and file bugs. New users = new bugs and new users = new ideas on the phone
[17:39] <czajkowski> people come and get to meet one another
[17:39] <popey> and are more inclined to fix things because "It's my only PC". whereas everyone (mostly) already has a smartphone - even students with low / no / income
[17:39] <czajkowski> and you get some community interaction
[17:39] <popey> Well.
[17:39] <popey> Good idea to have events.
[17:39] <popey> I will certainly note that.
[17:40] <popey> However, right now, bugs we are not short of :)
[17:40] <mhall119> we have encouraged people to bring their devices to loco team events
[17:40] <mhall119> but that doesn't let others use it as a daily driver
[17:40] <czajkowski> well it's more about interaction and if you provide the devices then people can get involved
[17:40] <czajkowski> popey: perhaps for a student meet up you could give away one to the person who files the most bugs, or writes the best test case
[17:40] <czajkowski> put bounty on it
[17:41] <popey> hmm. incentivising
[17:41] <popey> you know how I feel about that :)
[17:41] <czajkowski> popey: I do :)
[17:41] <czajkowski> popey: next co working day bring devices and let people play and run the tests on them!
[17:41] <popey> like I say, bugs we have. contributions we don't
[17:42] <mhall119> I know in the past we have used the community donations to send devices to core apps developers, but we haven't expanded it to more general phone users/contributors
[17:42] <popey> people often say "it doesn't do X or Y" and I already have the bug on my screen for them
[17:42] <mhall119> even for core apps devs, we were bending the guidelines for them
[17:42] <popey> I would love to have a bunch of devices i could take somewhere and get people to contribute
[17:42] <mhall119> as many were not (yet) Ubuntu Members
[17:43] <popey> Going back to the previous question, I do believe that things will get easier as we have snappy desktop in 15.10
[17:43] <popey> and converged device coming this year
[17:43] <mhall119> right, it won't give a phone use experience, but it will at least make it easier for people to run the apps themselves
[17:43] <popey> both of those should have an impact and we should make certain to capture those poeple who are interested in contributing
[17:43] <mhall119> popey: is there anything we can do to encourage people to use core apps on current desktops?
[17:44] <czajkowski> popey: mhall119 could a loco team apply for funnds via the fund to buy phones for their team to get more involved?
[17:44] <popey> yes and no
[17:44] <czajkowski> Perhaps the perception is you have to be a core dev to get a phone
[17:44] <popey> so to mhall119, yes, i need to delete all the core apps wiki page and replace it with a pretty page on developer.ubuntu.com :)
[17:45] <mhall119> czajkowski: I would think so, yes, but they would need to show that it would be money well spent
[17:45] <popey> i dont want to buy a bunch of phones to sit in a drawer somewhere
[17:45] <mhall119> ^^ that
[17:46] <mhall119> we've loaned devices to loco teams for use in events, but the expectation was that it would come back to Canonical afterwards so it can be loaned to someone else
[17:46] <czajkowski> nods
[17:46] <elfy> popey: got to run here - I'll read up in a bit - thanks :)
[17:46] <mhall119> thanks elfy
[17:46] <czajkowski> I do know some locos are very proactive in QA and might enjoy this
[17:46] <czajkowski> perhaps they don;t know they could avail of the fund
[17:46] <czajkowski> maybe one thing they'd have to do is provide a bi weekly report of their work ?
[17:47] <popey> elfy: thanks
[17:47] <mhall119> czajkowski: yeah, and I think they would need regular in-person meetups in order for more than just one person to take advantage of the device
[17:47] <popey> Again, QA isn't really what we need. We have people testing stuff. It's fixers we need. IMO
[17:48] <mhall119> popey: is it time for another recruitment drive for Core Apps?
[17:48] <popey> yes
[17:48] <popey> so, todo list:-
[17:48] <popey> 1) make a better home page on developer.ubuntu.com
[17:48] <mhall119> ok, the hack days seemed to work reasonably well for that in the past
[17:48] <popey> 2) Better articulate the things we need
[17:48] <popey> 3) recruit
[17:48] <mhall119> popey: ack
[17:48] <popey> hack days were variable
[17:49] <mhall119> popey: what part of that can the CC help with?
[17:49] <popey> I'll make a start on 1 and 2
[17:49] <popey> Don't think anything (yet)
[17:49] <mhall119> popey: has it helped to bring some of those core app devs to sprints?
[17:49] <mhall119> I know it's highly motivating to the ones that go, but what about in recruiting new devs?
[17:49] <popey> yeah, absolutely
[17:50] <popey> not sure I understand the question
[17:50] <popey> inviting community people to sprints is a mixed blessing
[17:50] <popey> "Here, come along with us and hack on ubuntu" vs "Here, spend a week of your vacation working for no pay"
[17:51] <mhall119> is that kind of involvement with Canonical something that helps motivate people to get involved, or does it only motivate people who are already involved?
[17:51] <popey> I think it's motivating and fun for students
[17:51] <popey> less so for people with families / careers
[17:51] <mhall119> ack
[17:51] <popey> ergo we should target students ㋛
[17:52] <popey> exams are now, summer holidays coming for many
[17:52] <popey> now is the time to strike
[17:52] <mhall119> popey: what about a GSoC project for this?
[17:52] <czajkowski> popey: contact unis that offer mobile dev courses and see if they'd like a semester project
[17:52] <popey> too late for GSOC I think?
[17:53] <mhall119> maybe
[17:53] <mhall119> not sure if Google would approve it anywya
[17:53] <popey> czajkowski: yeah, will add that to my list
[17:54] <mhall119> popey: changing gears a bit, is there anything blocking or disrupting contributions from the people you already have?
[17:54] <popey> Yes. Not having enough other contributors.
[17:54] <mhall119> heh
[17:54] <popey> People to review code for example
[17:54] <czajkowski> popey: I know we can only build for ubuntu devices there are no cross platform options out there yet
[17:54] <popey> I'm not kidding
[17:54] <popey> czajkowski: would be nice if the SDK ran on other platforms, but it doesn't right now
[17:54] <mhall119> popey: do you still have people from Canonical helping with code reviews?
[17:54] <czajkowski> but have peple thought about going to many more mobile conferecens and talking about the Ubuntu phone theer to get developers who work on xamarin ios and android interested
[17:55] <popey> mhall119: I poke people now and then yes
[17:55] <czajkowski> popey: I type slowly :(
[17:55] <popey> czajkowski: we do go to conferences. not many, but targetted, dpm was at one this week doing exactly that :)
[17:55]  * czajkowski attends many many mobile events, but no sign of Ubuntu at them 
[17:55] <czajkowski> and they're not just for android or iOS
[17:56] <czajkowski> anyways
[17:56] <mhall119> yes, that is something we are trying to do more of within the community team at canonical
[17:56] <mhall119> we've also been developing materials for community contributors to use at such conferences
[17:56] <popey> we have to target events carefully.
[17:56] <popey> we don't have a huge budget for events
[17:56] <popey> and many are just not appropriate
[17:56] <mhall119> yeah, a lot of mobile events seem very businessey
[17:58] <mhall119> having the SDK working on Windows and OSX would certainly help, but I think the technical difficulties on that are too high for it to be realistic right now
[17:58] <popey> yup
[17:58] <popey> its even hard to run it other linux distros
[17:59] <mhall119> I would like to see more of Ubuntu at mobile dev conferences though, perhaps we should go over our material again to make sure it's ready for non-canonicalers to use
[17:59] <mhall119> ok, our hour is just about up, is there anything else you wanted to bring up or ask for assistance with popey ?
[17:59] <popey> I think we'll be in better shape by the end of the year as we'll have more devices in more regions and converged device.
[17:59] <popey> Nope
[18:00] <mhall119> popey: any highlights or praises you want to give?
[18:00] <popey> Not now, I'll save that :)
[18:00] <mhall119> :)
[18:00] <mhall119> czajkowski: cprofitt anything else for popey?
[18:01] <czajkowski> narp all good
[18:01] <cprofitt> no thank you
[18:01] <mhall119> #topic Any other business
[18:01] <popey> thanks for the tips and advice everyone
[18:01] <mhall119> ok, *now* is there anybody here who wants to bring up a topic that wasn't on the agenda?
[18:02] <popey> can I go home now? :)
[18:02] <czajkowski> chooo chooo
[18:02] <mhall119> popey: don't like working from the office?
[18:02] <czajkowski> mhall119: no he prefers co working :D
[18:03] <mhall119> alright, last call for topics
[18:03] <czajkowski> AOB anyone ?
[18:03] <mhall119> czajkowski: well co-working gives him chocolate pains
[18:03] <mhall119> #endmeeting
[18:03] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu May 21 18:03:52 2015 UTC.
[18:03] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-05-21-17.02.moin.txt
[18:03] <popey> mhall119: not at 7pm
[18:03] <mhall119> thank you everyone
[18:04] <popey> o/
[18:04] <czajkowski> toodles