[05:54] <mapps> norn
[07:00] <MooDoo> hello all
[07:04] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:08] <MooDoo> morning brobostigon how are you this fine day?
[07:09] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo , not great, and you?
[07:12] <diplo> Morning all
[07:14] <MooDoo> brobostigon: it's my friday so I can't grumble
[07:15] <brobostigon> :)
[08:23] <Laney> quiet today
[08:24] <Laney> is everyone else doing something fun that I don't know about?
[08:25]  * brobostigon is installing the new pebble v.3 sdk.
[08:26] <diplo> It's been quiet all week
[08:27] <Laney> suspishus
[08:27] <foobarry> we all moved to another chan
[08:28] <MooDoo> #naughtystep is the new channel
[08:32] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy I Need A Patch For That Day! 😃
[08:34] <czajkowski> salut
[08:34] <JamesTait> Bonjour!
[08:44] <bashrc> g'day
[08:48] <JamesTait> Howzit!
[09:00] <ujjain> hello
[09:00] <ujjain> I'm hungover.
[09:09] <directhex> i'm directhex
[09:11]  * brobostigon is the brobostigon'ator.
[09:29] <ujjain> i'm ujjain
[09:30] <TwistedLucidity> ujjain: So you didn't see that Horizon docu last night?
[09:31] <TwistedLucidity> Scary stuff. Time we added alcohol to the Class-A list. Because we all know making something illegal works!
[09:32] <popey> brobostigon: do you have a pebble?
[09:33] <brobostigon> yes popey
[09:34] <ujjain> I did not.
[09:34] <ujjain> Yeah, works well.
[09:35] <popey> brobostigon: i have the pebble time on order
[09:35] <brobostigon> popey: cool, :)
[09:40]  * brobostigon should try and write a pebble app for ubuntu touch.
[09:57]  * bashrc never really saw the point of smartwatches
[09:57] <knightwise> popey: I will never eat chocolate breakfast buns again.
[09:58] <knightwise> your picture scared the crap out of me
[09:58] <bashrc> I mean, I don't really need to know how many steps or heartbeats I've done since last tuesday
[09:59] <bashrc> I don't particularly need to know the time in Japan
[10:00] <bashrc> the number of times that I actually look at my watch per day is small, and mostly in the morning
[10:01] <popey> knightwise: super
[10:01] <popey> bashrc: none of those things are why I'm getting one
[10:02] <bashrc> why are you getting one?
[10:03] <shauno> that does seem a tad shortsighted though.  I mean, my old dumbphones were low-interaction devices that I didn't look at habitually
[10:05] <bashrc> currently I change my watch battery maybe every six months. It's actually questionable whether a watch is useful to me at all, since I have other technology which can display the time
[10:05] <directhex> bashrc: my fitness tracker has been life-changing
[10:06] <bashrc> If you have a compelling reason to monitor your heart rate then a smartwatch might indeed be useful
[10:06] <popey> bashrc: it's not about it being a timepiece
[10:06] <popey> focussing on it being a timepiece is like saying smartphones are just phones.
[10:07] <shauno> I'm just curious about "I don't need my watch to do anything because I don't look at it"  vs "I don't look at my watch because it doesn't do anything"
[10:07] <popey> i almost never use phone to make a phone call
[10:07] <popey> it's way more a 'pocket computer capable of making telephone calls' than 'phone'
[10:07] <bashrc> yes I agree
[10:36] <awilkins> Haven't changed my watch battery in 6 years
[10:36] <awilkins> Mind, it's a CR2016
[10:36] <awilkins> I took it in for a battery replacement and it was just loose
[10:36] <awilkins> Still going strong
[10:37] <awilkins> Largest battery in a watch I've ever seen
[10:37] <awilkins> It's one of those Indiglo faces so I guess the large battery is for that reason
[10:37] <awilkins> But the upside is that if you don't spam the backlight a lot it apparently lasts a very long time..
[10:57] <popey> here's a good reason to get a smartwatch ㋛ face generator https://plus.google.com/u/0/+Tom%C3%A1%C5%A1Hol%C4%8D%C3%ADk/posts/2VQWsZtq1jn
[10:57] <popey> http://www.watchface-generator.de/v3/
[10:58] <brobostigon> :)
[11:20] <ujjain> does cashing a cheque cost money?
[11:23] <directhex> paying in a cheque to your bank account doesn't cost money
[11:23] <directhex> going to a dodgy payday loan shop and asking them to give you instant money from a cheque costs money
[11:24] <ujjain> I signed up for a payday loan
[11:24] <ujjain> half a year ago
[11:25] <ujjain> for 50 pound cashback and maybe build some credit history
[11:26] <ujjain> they never paid the cashback
[11:26] <ujjain> appearently payday loan companies aren't the most reliable ones
[11:26] <popey> haha
[11:27] <popey> this is not news
[11:27] <ujjain> I got screwed by a casino, taking away 93% of my winnings, £1500
[11:27] <bashrc> was it 2500% interest?
[11:27] <ujjain> www.casinomeister.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67255 my story
[11:27] <ujjain> I paid it back after 1 week, I actually think it didn't do much to my credit score, a 1 week loan :p
[11:27] <ujjain> I have a credit card, but just not a long history on it
[11:28] <shauno> I'm not sure you'd actually want a "payday loan" on your credit history.  they're usually pretty desperate, which isn't the position a lender wants to see
[11:29] <ujjain> I was told you can't tell if it's payady or not
[11:29] <ujjain> but yeah, you are right
[11:30] <ujjain>  All credit reference agencies differentiate payday loans on your credit report. They’re in a different section, so underwriters (who make lending decisions) can tell how much and how often you've used payday loans.
[11:30] <ujjain> I also read otherwise
[11:31] <ujjain> http://experian.co.uk/consumer/questions/askjames375.html http://www.experian.co.uk/consumer/questions/askjames246.html
[11:34] <shauno> that second one seems to have all 3 positions :)  that paying it off would be a positive, that requiring it in the first place owuld be a negative, and that some lenders may not differentiate
[11:34] <shauno> either way, personally I think they're predatory scum, and you're best off treating the episode as "lesson learnt"  (pure opinion)
[11:35] <ujjain> Yeah, I agree.
[11:40] <TwistedLucidity> ujjian: Use the credit card for web purchases (which is good practice), holidays etc and you will soon get a history. Bizarrely enough, you can have a "poor" rating for paying back loans/credit quickly; they don't make enough money
[11:41] <foobarry> why do you need to build your credit history?
[11:42] <TwistedLucidity> I have an extremely dim view of Experian and their ilk. I galls me that they create this problem for "credit history", which they charge companies to see, and then they want to charge *YOU* to view what is in essence your own data. And it's not a small fee either.
[11:42] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: You want a mortgage or to buy a car on a credit agreement? You better have history.
[11:42] <foobarry> in general, yes
[11:42] <popey> Experian are indeed terrible humans
[11:43] <TwistedLucidity> If the fee for viewing my own data was nominal (say a couple of £ a month), I wouldn't mind. Server cost money. Last time I checked it was £20 or something, ridiculous.
[11:43] <foobarry> i put all my spending on cc
[11:43] <foobarry> even £3 lunch from sainsbury
[11:43] <foobarry> then pay it off monthly
[11:44] <foobarry> i do hear that credit scoring companies don't have all seeing eye on everything
[11:44] <TwistedLucidity> Nah, I mostly used cash or DD. CC is for web and high-value. Mostly because Santander are a useless bank.
[11:44] <TwistedLucidity> Really need to move accounts.
[11:45] <popey> I don't own a credit card at all. \o/
[11:45] <TwistedLucidity> popey: They have their uses.
[11:45] <popey> sure
[11:45] <popey> i used to have one, don't anymore
[11:45] <TwistedLucidity> Great for web purchases. Using anything else is madness
[11:46] <popey> quite happy not to
[11:47] <TwistedLucidity> I was happy to have the CC once when I got stuffed at an airport with no cash and no access to my bank account. Called the CC hotline, explained the situation, had cash from an ATM in 15 mins.
[11:47] <TwistedLucidity> This was overseas.
[11:47] <TwistedLucidity> I was well chuffed.
[11:48] <foobarry> i am £200 in credit with amazon
[11:48] <foobarry> although i don't like those guys any more
[11:49] <ujjain> why not?
[11:49] <ujjain> I want to build credit score without a reason
[11:50] <ujjain> because it's called score, would be nice to have it high
[11:50] <ujjain> I was yesterday in chiswick, I opened the rightmove app, 1.7million for a simple 4-bedroom appartment, nothing special
[11:50] <foobarry> they started moving stuff i buy into prime customers only
[11:50] <ujjain> ah, my roommate has prime, so he gave me free prime, but sucks yeah :(
[11:51] <ujjain> amazon prime is much money, especially since you probably would not use the media advantages and just the free prime shippping
[11:51] <foobarry> and i buy 1 item a month max
[11:52] <SuperMatt> ujjain: I pretty much get the value out of my amazon prime
[11:52] <SuperMatt> if you order anything big, or regularly, it's worth it
[11:52] <popey> yeah, i got a refund for the bit of prime I don't use
[11:52] <TwistedLucidity> ujjain: "score" is misleading. It's not like you get "99/100 credit points". It's more of a profile and different companies will assess the ratings differently depending on the product/service in question.
[11:52] <popey> (the streaming video)
[11:52] <ujjain> 170 orders placed in the last 6 months
[11:52] <ujjain> wow
[11:52] <ujjain> I think half amazon free apps though :P
[11:52] <SuperMatt> In fact, these days, I tend not to order something unless it has prime
[11:53] <ujjain> TwistedLucidity, yeah, I guess that's true
[11:53] <SuperMatt> and with my lifestyle, I often require various items at very short notice
[11:53] <popey> yeah, i do the same
[11:55] <TwistedLucidity> I've found Amazon to bet getting less value-for-money.
[11:55] <TwistedLucidity> We bought a BBQ recently. £210 on Amazon, £160 in Homebase. Go figure.
[11:55] <ujjain> Yeah, I guess sometimes getting something locally can be cheapre, epsecially with poundlands
[11:55] <ujjain> Yeah, IT equipment, shoes, etc, not always cheapest at Amazon
[11:55] <ujjain> especially if you know what you want, specific brand, specific type
[11:56] <TwistedLucidity> I also try to avoid Amazon due to their agressive accounting practices.
[11:56] <TwistedLucidity> Same reason I try to avoid supermarkets
[11:57] <ujjain> accounting?
[11:57] <TwistedLucidity> ujjain: Sizes as well, with only a few expections (i.e. brands I already know) I would never buy clothing on-line
[11:57] <ujjain> I bought 4 pair of shoes, arrived yesterday, have to send back 3, didn't like them, at least free returns.
[11:57] <ujjain> Yeah, clothes online is always tricky
[11:57] <TwistedLucidity> ujjain: Indeed. How shall I put this...tax limitations measures that whilst legal, one may find distasteful
[11:57] <ujjain> I just don't enjoy clothes shopping at all
[11:58] <ujjain> tax limitations = tax evasions methods?
[11:58] <TwistedLucidity> A further example, Starbucks
[11:58] <TwistedLucidity> ujjain: No, tax evasion is illegal. I never said what Amazon did was illegal
[11:58] <ujjain> oh sorry, I'm not an English native
[11:58] <ujjain> like tax schemes
[11:58] <ujjain> via Ireland etc, only paying very little
[11:58] <TwistedLucidity> It's just...err...highly efficient.
[11:59] <TwistedLucidity> ujjain: Bingo
[11:59] <ujjain> Yeah, right
[11:59] <shauno> I'm less fussed by the tax thing.  the way I see it, if I could legally get away with paying half the tax, I would
[12:00] <ujjain> You might be able to, by becoming a contractor
[12:00] <popey> Doesn't make it morally right.
[12:00] <ujjain> but I think it's not very fair, that Amazon can make profits in the UK
[12:00] <TwistedLucidity> I'd rather pay slightly more and have some reasonable certainty that cash was flowing to the Exchequer to keep the lights on, than save money on a purchase and have to see income tax increase to cover the tax loses.
[12:00] <ujjain> and pay taxes on that UK profits
[12:00] <popey> "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should"
[12:00] <ujjain> in a crappy country
[12:01] <TwistedLucidity> shauno: Good tax management is one thing (I offset some stuff against taxes). Creating company structures that are unreleated to business function simply to reduce tax...I find that unpalateable.
[12:02] <TwistedLucidity> Problem is, where one crosses the line is hard to define. And HMRC are increasingly understaffed.
[12:02] <shauno> and tax laws incredibly convoluted, else the loopholes wouldn't exist in the first place
[12:02] <TwistedLucidity> So as the rich pay less and less tax, the revenues falls. This means the % that has to be raised from the rest of us (or cut from budgets) rises.
[12:03] <TwistedLucidity> If people just paid their blasted taxes, we'd probably all wind up paying less in the long run.
[12:03] <TwistedLucidity> Not that I like paying taxes.
[12:03] <TwistedLucidity> I don't like dentists either, but I still go.
[12:03] <ujjain> I don't know if there are tax loopholes for that rich though.
[12:04] <ujjain> I have been trying to find tax loopholes for somebody making 300k, but I don't know if there are
[12:04] <TwistedLucidity> ujjain: Of course there is. Usually done via trusts and LLPs via London as we have lax financial regulations.
[12:05] <TwistedLucidity> The accountancy firms offer packages to make all this easy. Just ask Jimmy Carr. :-)
[12:05] <ujjain> people who have used EBTs are very much ***'ed though
[12:06] <ujjain> they are in very stressful situations now that last years, EBT's with loan schemes are very obvious
[12:06] <ujjain> a lot of people at contractoruk who used them, have ended up regretting it they wrote
[12:06] <TwistedLucidity> The idea of taxing the gross income rather then the profit is interesting, although that has issues for industries with very high costs and tight margins.
[12:06] <ujjain> Limited company is not a tax loophole, only difference is the national insurance and expensing things
[12:07] <ujjain> I would love that, I'm a contractor, I don't have much expenses either, I'd rather pay 5% on gross income, then 20% on profit, then pay dividend tax (same as income tax)
[12:07] <TwistedLucidity> ujjain: a ltd co isn't, nor is an LLP really. But they can be used as such. For starters, you can hide ownership with an LLP, and an LLP can own and LLP...
[12:07] <ujjain> (same as income tax after calculating corporationt ax)
[12:08] <ujjain> Yeah, maybe. But to me it seems that most people making 100k or 300k pay taxes, don't have that many tax loop holes.
[12:08] <TwistedLucidity> Aye, 5% on the gross (or some figure like that) would probably be cheaper to collect. "Oh, you took in £200k last year. OK, where's our £10k?" Simples.
[12:08] <ujjain> maybe I should marry a 18 year old student though, to pay less tax and make her 50% owner of the Limited company
[12:09] <ujjain> and pay her 50%, that would be a nice tax saving
[12:09] <ujjain> that's true, but seems to remove all room for companies operating on small margins, which are often the most effective companies
[12:09] <popey> you dont need to be married
[12:09] <popey> just have a partner in the company
[12:09] <TwistedLucidity> I am sure there would be some way to contribute to Ubuntu/Linux/F-OSS that can be offset against tax
[12:10] <TwistedLucidity> ujjain: I will happily colelct 50% to reduce your tax burden. :-)
[12:10] <ujjain> can it be my little dutch brother living in NL? I don't think so though.
[12:10] <ujjain> TwistedLucidity, you're a true hero
[12:11] <Laney> risked washing up without using rubber gloves
[12:11] <ujjain> I don't really know many people in the UK I trust that make almost no money though
[12:11] <Laney> OH GOD MY HANDS
[12:12] <popey> were you using caustic soda to wash your things up?
[12:12] <popey> don't think I've ever washed up with rubber gloves. they feel weird.
[12:12] <Laney> method washing up liquid
[12:13]  * Laney is a sensie
[12:13] <Laney> we had dishwashers for ages before moving in here which doesn't have one
[12:14] <Laney> maybe my hands just need to get used to it again, never had to use them before
[12:17] <popey> washing up is fun
[12:17] <popey> drying up and putting away is the chore
[12:17] <popey> always used to fight for washing up duty with brother
[12:18] <Laney> you risk having your work rejected if you are the washer upper
[12:18] <Laney> that makes me unreasonably irritated
[12:53] <brobostigon> knightwise: is there a reason why, the download button on your podcast site, returns with a page not found error?
[12:57] <ali1234> google have closed my youtube account
[12:59] <shauno> tsk tsk tsk naughty boy
[13:00] <popey> ali1234: how come?
[13:00] <popey> did you close your G+ account ?
[13:01] <ali1234> "repeated severe voilations of the community guidelines"
[13:01] <popey> erk
[13:01] <ali1234> the only thing i can think of is that i wrote this software: https://github.com/ali1234/ytsubs
[13:02] <ali1234> so i'm wondering whether to go to the register with some story along the lines of "youtube forces people to use v3 API, then bans people for using it"
[13:15] <ali1234> i can still share videos on G+ though
[13:17] <shauno> why el reg?  why not something people still read?
[13:17] <ali1234> i dunno what people read these days
[13:17] <ali1234> register loves sensational stories
[13:19] <TwistedLucidity> El Reg is the Daily Mail of the tech news world. It's also my guilty pleasure.
[13:19] <ali1234> actually it looks like google has gone on a banning spreee
[13:21] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Did you ever receive a notification of these "severe violations"? Sounds like the kind of thing they had said "You naugthy person" before weilding the ban-hammer
[13:21] <ali1234> apparently a video i posted like three years ago was flagged as spam
[13:22] <ali1234> this caused my account to be instantly closed
[13:22] <TwistedLucidity> Three. Years. Ago. ?
[13:22] <ali1234> yes
[13:23] <ali1234> "This video has been removed as a violation of YouTube's policy against spam, scams and commercially deceptive content."
[13:23] <TwistedLucidity> And what was said video of?
[13:23] <zmoylan-pi> was youtube g+ then?
[13:23] <TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: I think so, or the start of it at least
[13:24] <foobarry> a tin of processed meat?
[13:24] <TwistedLucidity> Hah!
[13:24] <zmoylan-pi> so signing up to g+ seems to be biting people in the backside...
[13:24] <TwistedLucidity> It's kinda hard to avoid. Meat-space me has managed it though.
[13:25] <TwistedLucidity> I find G+ ugly and hard to use. SO I don't use it.
[13:25] <ali1234> TwistedLucidity: it was a picture stretched out to 1 hour, no audio, no description, no tags, unlisted video, and was only ever viewed like 3 times
[13:25] <shauno> I try to avoid the Empire as much as possible
[13:25] <foobarry> i have flagged some spam videos on yt
[13:25] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: See? foobarry just confessed!
[13:25] <foobarry> mostly ones that were a single photo and a link to amazon affiliate
[13:26] <foobarry> supposed to be a review of a fridge/freezer
[13:26] <ali1234> they are probably autodetecting that type of video now
[13:26] <TwistedLucidity> That sounds like a silly/annoying video and probaby, unforunately for you, close enough to some kind of spam-crap-ola.
[13:26] <TwistedLucidity> But to wait three years for the ban....whut?
[13:26] <zmoylan-pi> or just letting the manufacturer of fridges who pays them more mark what they want as spam
[13:27] <ali1234> yes, that's why i suspect that they went looking for a reason to ban me
[13:27] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Sod 'em. Run MediaGoblin instead. :-)
[13:27] <foobarry> sounds like an autoban
[13:28]  * TwistedLucidity hears Kraftwerk
[13:28] <ali1234> i'm not really interested in publishing videos anyway
[13:29] <zmoylan-pi> put them on twitter now that tweets are showing up in google searches? :-)
[13:36] <foobarry> make about 50 vines
[13:38] <shauno> and duct-tape them together?
[13:41] <zmoylan-pi> some app that takes the frames of video from pics tweeted under a hashtag...
[13:44] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: How's synergy going these days? Not used it in a l-o-n-g time
[14:15] <ali1234> don't know, i don't use it any more
[14:27] <ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTUPkidackw
[14:30] <TwistedLucidity> She is just so ^happy^ and ^perky^ with so much ^up-speak^.....
[14:31] <TwistedLucidity> (^..^ indicates that a works should be spoken in a high-pitched squeak)
[14:42] <ali1234> so essentially the issue here is that having a "deceptive" video = account closure
[14:42] <popey> have you confirmed that's the case?
[14:42] <ali1234> where 99.9% of all videos on youtube fit the definition of "deceptive"
[14:42] <zmoylan-pi> there goes ever political broadcast uploaded to twitter... :-)
[14:43] <ali1234> popey: there is no way to contact anyone at google and they don't give a reason
[14:43] <zmoylan-pi> there is no one at google to answer your questions.  then they'd have to pay people for work they want computers to do...
[14:46] <ali1234> popey: that guidelines video was posted less than two days ago, they've clearly gone on a banning rampage
[14:46] <ali1234> this is possibly related to the postponement of the removal of collections
[14:47] <popey> yeah, seems so
[14:47] <ali1234> i bet their new thing uses metadata to generate automatic collections, and they found out that the metadata on all videos is terrible
[14:47] <ali1234> so they discovered at the last minute that it was going to be awful
[14:53] <TwistedLucidity> ali1234: Complain to the EU that Google is crushing freedom of speech. I am actually semi-serious. The EU seems to itching to kick Google in the conkers.
[14:54] <TwistedLucidity> What I despise about YouTube is the way it suggests things I don't give two damns about and hides the things I want to watch.
[14:54] <bashrc> amen
[14:55] <TwistedLucidity> Does it remember that I watch every new "Scott Manley" video? No. But it will list about 10 "trending" categories and "Popular in UK" tripe that I couldn't care less about.
[14:55] <TwistedLucidity> That channel I go on nearly every day? Not listed. Have to search for it.
[14:55] <TwistedLucidity> So much for presenting the content I like.
[14:55] <TwistedLucidity>  /rant
[14:56] <bashrc> in my case the suggestions are nearly always worthless
[14:56] <TwistedLucidity> It's like Amazone continuing to suggest an item months after you've already bought the exact thing. Pointless.
[14:58] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: is amazone like amazon at all :P
[14:58] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: <insert witty retort here>
[14:59] <davmor2> pfff
[15:00] <diddledan> wow that metadata video is terrible
[15:01] <diddledan> she comes across completely condescending
[15:02] <TwistedLucidity> It's also discrimination. What if the uploader has dyslexia? INSTA-BAN!
[15:03] <diddledan> good point
[15:04] <diddledan> I'm actually unfair to people online in a similar way - I like things to be spelled perfectly at all times (excepting obvious typos) so I moan at people who don't which means I might be offending someone who actually has difficulty spelling correctly
[15:04] <intrbiz> diddledan: language is not binary
[15:04] <diddledan> intrbiz: ineed
[15:04] <TwistedLucidity> Or the language they are using isn't their first, leading to grammatical issues.
[15:04] <diddledan> err
[15:05] <diddledan> indeed*
[15:05] <diddledan> TwistedLucidity: another good point
[15:05] <intrbiz> it's fecking grammar i wish we'd get rid of
[15:05] <diddledan> lol
[15:05] <diddledan> "grammar nazi"
[15:05] <TwistedLucidity> So long as the first and last characters are correct, the othre can appear in any order. It's still readable.
[15:06] <intrbiz> and the usual teachers nonsense of 'english has rules' - go learn what logic is
[15:06] <diddledan> yeah that research was enlightening, TwistedLucidity
[15:06] <TwistedLucidity> English *does* have rules. The first half completely contradict the second half though!
[15:06] <diddledan> intrbiz: English does have rules, but never adheres to them consistently
[15:06] <diddledan> yeah what he said :-)
[15:06] <intrbiz> rules with exceptions are f**king pointless
[15:07] <diddledan> the problem is English is a frankenstein language
[15:07] <TwistedLucidity> Also, English is not fixed. Not even in England, let alone Britain.
[15:07] <intrbiz> indeed
[15:07] <TwistedLucidity> diddledan: It's a language of hybrid vitality. :-)
[15:07] <diddledan> we've taken words from so many sources that rules which apply to some words cannot be applied to others because they came from a different source language
[15:07] <intrbiz> sorry for the rant, being dyslexic, you get used to people moaning
[15:08] <diddledan> intrbiz: you're entitled to be ranty :-) dyslexia-descrimination is actually one form of descrimination that isn't widely acknowledged so you have a right to encourage people to think about it
[15:08] <TwistedLucidity> And some really daft rules. "The user log on at the log-on using their logon". ARGH!!!!!!
[15:09] <diddledan> TwistedLucidity: lol
[15:09] <TwistedLucidity> "The user log*s* on at the log-on using their logon"
[15:09] <intrbiz> i hate when people use 'he/she'
[15:09] <diddledan> and as I said I'm guilty of do it :-(
[15:09] <TwistedLucidity> They/Their
[15:10] <TwistedLucidity> We actually do need a gender neural third-person (I think that's the one)
[15:10] <TwistedLucidity> Or is it second?
[15:10] <TwistedLucidity> Great. Now I'm confused.
[15:10] <diddledan> he/she is a pre-op transexual?
[15:10] <zmoylan-pi> there are a few out there but they sound forced
[15:10] <zmoylan-pi> they are a preop transsexual
[15:11] <TwistedLucidity> I use "one" alot more these days rather than "you". Actually make life easier sometimes as it's stops people thinking one means *them*.
[15:11] <intrbiz> at least it is a neuter language
[15:11] <TwistedLucidity> "Roads are feminine"? Really? Give me strength......
[15:14] <directhex> most languages have gendered pronouns for all nouns
[15:14] <directhex> so roads *are* feminine in french, for example. so are cars
[15:15] <diddledan> haha: https://grahamcluley.com/2015/05/hackers-obscene-electronic-billboard/
[15:15] <TwistedLucidity> I know. It makes no sense
[15:15] <diddledan> hackers being bumholes
[15:15] <intrbiz> shucks they pixilated it
[15:16] <TwistedLucidity> I have an unpixelated link. How family friendly is this channel?
[15:16] <TwistedLucidity> Or just use a search engine.....
[15:18] <diddledan> the "assange shuffle collective" <-- they're lolsec reformed methinks
[15:18] <diddledan> they're just doing it "for teh lulz"
[15:20] <diddledan> and that page also tells us that "the Beryl Reid Appreciation Society was behind recent hacks against healthcare insurers"!!!

[15:23] <TwistedLucidity> That's nothing, did some bloke hack the engine controls of a flying aircraft via the entertainment system?
[15:24] <diddledan> yeah that story is complete idiocy
[15:24] <zmoylan-pi> he says yes, the airplane manufacturers who have nothing to hide say no...
[15:24] <diddledan> I believe he stated that he did it in simulation with virtualbox machines
[15:25] <TwistedLucidity> "The Naked Scientists" claimed it had been done for real. I'll have to check the story
[15:25] <TwistedLucidity> A VBox simulation is hardly the same thing
[15:25] <intrbiz> on struggles to see why an infotainment system needs any connection to the fly by wire systems
[15:25] <TwistedLucidity> It doesn't. But that doens't mean their isn't one.
[15:25] <intrbiz> indeed
[15:25] <intrbiz> i'm merely skeptical
[15:25] <zmoylan-pi> well there was a network cable linking all the devices together and they were adding a multimedia player network...
[15:26] <TwistedLucidity> "Say Bob, do we need two seperate networks and double the cabling?" "Nah, just bung it all down one wire to save weight"
[15:26] <zmoylan-pi> we'll just use different ip ranges and no one will know...
[15:26] <diddledan> from prior reading into similar stories it was pointed out that they should be separate networks but they still need a shared uplink to the satellite
[15:26] <intrbiz> you'd hardly route realtime sensitve data feeds over networking for media with totally different use cases
[15:26] <zmoylan-pi> you'd think that...
[15:27] <diddledan> and then because the uplink is shared there is potential for cross-pollination
[15:27] <intrbiz> personally more interested in the A400M crash
[15:30] <zmoylan-pi> software glitch by the look of it
[15:30] <intrbiz> yes
[15:31] <TwistedLucidity> That the one where three engines shut down?
[15:31] <zmoylan-pi> not good for a military aircraft
[15:31] <intrbiz> yes
[15:31] <intrbiz> not good for any aircraft
[15:31] <TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: Chinook?
[15:32] <diddledan> I like the doomsday scenarios of the late 20th century (1990s) about the minellium bug - several films were made - "the clock has reset and the nuclear reactor doesn't think it's been installed yet so it's shut down the cooling"
[15:32] <zmoylan-pi> an airbus plane meant to be the 21st century long range military jet transport for gear and troops instead of hercules jobbies
[15:33] <intrbiz> IIRC the chinook had engine management software issues initially
[15:33] <diddledan> wasn't there something recently about fighter jets crossing the international date-line?
[15:33] <zmoylan-pi> also mucked up when raf bought them without radar as they wanted to fit their own then crashed one with all the military folk on board
[15:34] <zmoylan-pi> the fighter jets is an old one, pre 2000 iirc
[15:34] <diddledan> I recall it happening this year
[15:34] <zmoylan-pi> windows for warships did/didn't disable a ship that needed to be towed home when someone typed in the wrong number depending on who you talk to
[15:35] <zmoylan-pi> in falklands the british ship was hit by a french missile as no one had told the ship that the enemy was using french missiles and it wasn't a friendly
[15:36] <diddledan> lol
[15:36] <diddledan> oops
[15:36] <zmoylan-pi> the south african aa gun was allowed to shoot any direction it wanted and that went badly wrong.
[15:37] <zmoylan-pi> the anti missile system used in gulf war i was controlled by windows 95 and went slightly /wrong/ when it was run continuously for a few weeks
[15:37] <intrbiz> if you read vulcan 607, or about hms conqueror, they were well aware that we were fighting against weapons which were not expected to fight against
[15:38] <zmoylan-pi> there was a british torpedo test after wwii where the torpedo hit the ship that launched it
[15:38] <diddledan> that was a movie
[15:39] <zmoylan-pi> one moment... ::searching for actual ship::
[15:39] <intrbiz> well conqueror sunk the belgrano using WW2 era MK8 torpedos, as they didn't trust the wire guided tigerfishs to work
[15:40] <diddledan> that's probably why it got-through the belgrano's defences
[15:41] <diddledan> they were expecting sophistication
[15:41] <intrbiz> the belgrano was a WW2 era ship
[15:41] <zmoylan-pi> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Tullibee_%28SS-284%29#Fourth_war_patrol_and_loss us sub lost to own torpedo.  still looking for british ship
[15:42] <intrbiz> the belgrano was orginally USS phoenix
[15:43] <intrbiz> hms conqueror was also the first and only nuclear submarine to sink a vessel at war
[15:44] <diddledan> does that prove that we don't need nuclear subs? :-p
[15:44] <nucc1> anyone know what package i need to install if my firefox looks like GTK2 ? :)
[15:44] <diddledan> like "we don't need trident. we've never had to fire it so that proves it's not needed"
[15:45] <zmoylan-pi> british ship lost to own torpedo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Trinidad_%2846%29#Loss
[15:46] <intrbiz> diddledan: conqueror was an attack sub, rather than SSBN, which would have been the resolution class subs at the time
[15:47] <diddledan> intrbiz: yeah, I was off on a tangent
[15:53] <Azelphur> What are the chances of me getting Ubuntu on this? http://www.tesco.com/direct/asus-transformer-pad-tf103cx-101-tablet-8gb-wi-fi-black/481-4428.prd?sc_cmp=tp4_aff_1018132
[15:53] <intrbiz> diddledan: whether to keep the detterent is a long and complex argument
[15:54] <popey> low Azelphur
[15:54] <Azelphur> popey: aww, I was hoping the Intel chipset would make it somewhat easier
[15:54] <popey> ironically not
[15:54] <popey> windows tablets tend to be easier to do that to than android ones
[15:55] <Azelphur> yea
[15:55] <Azelphur> shame really it's so cheap, £89 with a code and I have some tesco points too
[16:05] <directhex> windows has a standard boot loader that ubuntu can handle
[16:05] <directhex> android does not
[16:09] <TwistedLucidity> A sad day when NTFSKrnl is freer than Linux!
[17:35] <Azelphur> Someone needs to make a directory of kickstarter projects that are 100% done and ready to ship, so you have a feed of things you can buy that are cool.
[17:36] <ali1234> virtually all projects on kickstarter can't be bought after they ship to backers
[17:36] <ali1234> they just start up a new kickstarter
[17:36] <ali1234> digital products are of course the exception to this
[17:37] <Azelphur> I see
[17:54] <ali1234> and my account is un-banned... for now
[18:13] <ali1234> ooo, adblock made a browser for android
[18:13] <ali1234> *downloads*
[18:14] <Azelphur> ali1234: why not just use real firefox? https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/android/addon/adblock-plus/?src=search
[18:14] <ali1234> because firefox on android is absolutely awful
[18:14] <Azelphur> uwot
[18:14] <Azelphur> I use it as my daily driver
[18:14] <ali1234> it's extremely slow, has an ugly UI, can't download files
[18:15] <ali1234> and it crashes all the time
[18:15] <Azelphur> works fine on my nexus 5, matter of opinion, I've downloaded many files with it, never had it crash iirc.
[18:16] <ali1234> oh... this is firefox :(
[18:17] <ali1234> i was hoping they forked chrome or android browser tbh
[18:29] <Azelphur> ali1234: https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=KRr6595g1QNBKdi no issues here
[18:31] <ali1234> i'm going to factory reset my nexus 7
[18:31] <ali1234> it's just got so slow it is barely usable
[18:32] <Anne> hi
[18:32] <Azelphur> hello
[18:33] <Anne> How are you
[18:33] <Azelphur> fine :)
[18:33] <Anne> that's great :)
[20:07] <intrbiz> FFS by broadband is currently getting 0.6Mb/s :((((
[20:11] <diddledan> yeouch that's sloooow
[20:12] <intrbiz> yeh, ridiculous
[20:13] <intrbiz> been like it since about 18:00
[20:20] <diddledan> can't blame windows updates this week
[20:22] <diddledan> although there was a new win10 as of last night
[20:22] <diddledan> I don't think that would account for your slowness tho - prolly not enough density of insiders to kill your local loop
[20:23] <diddledan> blame your ISP :-p
[20:23] <intrbiz> it's either an isp issue, or impact from FTTC work (I hope that is going on)
[20:23] <diddledan> phone 'em up and moan
[20:23] <intrbiz> with openreach one does not know what they do, very little it seems
[20:23] <diddledan> lol
[20:25] <diddledan> openreach are supposed to be in charge of the wires I believe. they then sell use of those wires to BT and other suppliers (apparently they actually priorities other suppliers' fault reports over BT consumer to prevent offcom from saying they're prioritising anyone)
[20:25] <diddledan> so bt gives bt a lesser service
[20:27] <intrbiz> hehe
[20:27] <intrbiz> the FTTC date there has been pushed back twice already, with no explaination or communication
[20:27] <diddledan> sucky
[20:27] <intrbiz> and no communication as to whether they will get it done by june (not sure if that is end or start)
[20:28] <intrbiz> I somehow suspect not
[20:29] <diddledan> a few years ago the town my parents live in "won" a BT competition to install fibre ahead of schedule as a promotion by having a "100%" of the town saying they want fibre. roll-on 2 years and they still haven't got it fully
[20:29] <intrbiz> hehe
[20:30] <intrbiz> nationalise openreach and rollout FTTP I say
[20:30] <diddledan> here ya go: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-25722513
[20:31] <intrbiz> diddledan: you hampshire way then?
[20:31] <diddledan> yup
[20:32] <intrbiz> shrewsbury got FTTC very early, mainly because most of the lines were so poor, people could barely get 1Mb/s on ADSL
[20:34] <diddledan> so did basingstoke - that's where I am now
[20:37] <intrbiz> right
[20:44] <popey> evening slackers
[20:44] <diddledan> allo
[20:47] <czajkowski> popey: welcome back
[20:53] <popey> bloke next to me on the train was playing solitaire on his phone
[20:53] <popey> when he finished it I went "YAY! \o/"
[20:53] <popey> he looked at me like I was odd
[20:53] <popey> I said "I'm joining you in celebration of your solitaire win!"
[20:53] <popey> *he* is the weirdo
[20:53] <czajkowski> lol
[21:07] <diddledan> popey: I think we should decamp to twitter to make his acheivement trending
[21:08] <daftykins> popey: :D
[21:08] <popey> hah
[21:08] <daftykins> fun one about a flaw in lots of routers - http://thehackernews.com/2015/05/netusb-router-hacking.html
[21:24] <daftykins> wow, malware/rootkits running on the GPU - that's a novel one
[23:28] <awilkins> Getting 5.1 audio over SP/DIF to work on Ubuntu is a PITA, isn't it?
[23:33] <daftykins> i wouldn't have thought so, if you have a good player that can just do the passthrough
[23:33] <daftykins> assuming you're playing back content with a DD/DTS stream