[04:29] <pitti> Good morning
[05:45] <didrocks> good morning
[05:52] <thumper> o/ didrocks and pitti
[05:53]  * thumper is finishing for the day now
[05:53] <thumper> have a good friday and weekend folks
[07:00] <willcooke> morning all.  Look busy, there are shareholders watching
[07:03] <didrocks> hey willcooke
[07:11] <seb128> hey willcooke
[07:22] <pitti> ah, what a nice morning for running
[07:22] <pitti> hey willcooke, hey seb128
[07:23] <willcooke> o/
[07:23] <pitti> willcooke: ah, Instant Porsche Owner soon? :-)
[07:23] <seb128> hey pitti, wie gehts?
[07:23] <seb128> pitti is sport addict
[07:23] <pitti> seb128: prima, danke! und selbst?
[07:23] <seb128> auch gut, danke!
[07:23] <pitti> willcooke: I assume you refer to http://www.zdnet.com/article/mark-shuttleworth-considering-canonical-ipo/ :)
[07:23] <willcooke> yeah
[07:24] <willcooke> wrong button
[07:26] <didrocks> good morning pitti!
[07:27] <mpt> Huh, I’ve found a reliable way to crash Nautilus
[07:27] <seb128> mpt, oh, which one?
[07:27] <mpt> Unfortunately, the error reporter came up only the first time
[07:27] <mpt> seb128, :-P
[07:28] <mpt> seb128, navigate to the “Screenshots” folder on the phone, then drag one of the screenshots over the “Places” area of Nautilus’s sidebar
[07:28] <mpt> (That’s probably needlessly specific, I haven’t investigated much yet)
[07:29] <mpt> Yeah, same happens with any image, doesn’t need to be on the phone
[07:29] <seb128> works for me
[07:29] <mpt> …Same happens with any file, doesn’t need to be an image
[07:29] <mpt> …Same happens with a folder, doesn’t need to be a file
[07:29] <seb128> mpt, that seems similar to bug #1447848
[07:30] <seb128> mpt, having an error report would be useful
[07:30] <seb128> or a backtrace
[07:32] <mpt> seb128, https://errors.ubuntu.com/oops/1abf28e6-0053-11e5-8191-fa163e22e467
[07:33] <mpt> Ah, it’s bug 1293168
[07:33] <mpt> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nautilus/+bug/1293168
[07:33] <mpt> At least according to the bucketer
[07:34] <seb128> mpt, seems so
[07:37] <seb128> mpt, you are on the LTS I guess?
[07:37] <mpt> yes
[07:37] <seb128> k, seems like it's fixed in newer versions from the e.u.c table
[07:59] <seb128> mpt, k, I can't get it to bug ... do you have anything that looks special/weird in ~/.config/gtk-3.0/bookmarks? I tried to add duplicates or buggy entries without luck
[08:00] <seb128> mpt, do you use desktop as home?
[08:04] <Laney> hullo
[08:05] <larsu> morning Laney!
[08:06] <Laney> hey larsu
[08:06] <Laney> happy friday!
[08:08] <seb128> hey Laney
[08:08] <seb128> hey robert_ancell
[08:08] <seb128> mpt, ok, I found a way to reproduce by editing .config/user-dirs.dirs
[08:09] <didrocks> hey Laney
[08:09] <Laney> hello french friends
[08:10] <Laney> I am going to a friend's house tonight to have tartiflette
[08:10] <Laney> scared
[08:10] <seb128> yummmy
[08:10] <seb128> lucky you
[08:10]  * seb128 wants that
[08:10] <Laney> I had reblochon once before and ...
[08:10] <Laney> didn't eat very much :)
[08:11] <didrocks> you will just fallback on potatoes :)
[08:12] <Laney> maybe it's different with all the other stuff
[08:16] <seb128> mpt, I can reproduce that nautilus bug now, looking for a fix, thanks for pointing it out ;-)
[08:39] <mpt> \o/
[09:41] <Laney> seb128: what happens with systemd and your whoopsie writable fix?
[09:42] <seb128> Laney, you mean?
[09:42] <Laney> doesn't that path rely on renaming files too?
[09:43] <Laney> (iirc)
[09:43] <seb128> oh
[09:43] <seb128> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/201618635/lac.debdiff you mean?
[09:44] <seb128> ogra_ was looking at it I think
[09:44] <seb128> but verification failed because the whoopsie side was missing
[09:44] <Laney> that's upstart
[09:44] <Laney> didrocks made it use update-rc.d disable for systemd
[09:44] <seb128> right, need to look at that
[09:44] <Laney> I wonder if this is going to work or not
[09:44] <seb128> I'm going to do it after lunch
[09:44] <Laney> okay
[09:44] <didrocks> it will create symlinks in /etc/systemd/
[09:44] <seb128> thanks for the reminder
[09:44] <didrocks> seb128: ^
[09:45] <didrocks> you should look at that part :)
[09:45] <didrocks> (it's only one file to set as writable)
[09:45] <didrocks> seb128: /etc/systemd/system/multi-user.target.wants/whoopsie.service
[09:45] <didrocks> it's creating/deleting that symlink
[09:46] <seb128> didrocks, under systemd pid1 right?
[09:46] <didrocks> yep
[09:46] <seb128> not under upstart
[09:46] <seb128> which the phone currently still use
[09:46] <seb128> but yeah, we should make both work
[09:46] <Laney> future proofing
[09:46] <didrocks> well, the phone will use soon systemd
[09:46] <didrocks> so, I guess it worthes it
[09:46] <Laney> I'm going a bit cross eyed at this code
[09:46] <seb128> not sure, maybe /etc/systemd/system should be writable as a dir
[09:46] <Laney> I can't find where it makes the upstart override
[09:47] <didrocks> Laney: whoopsie-preferences?
[09:47] <Laney> ye
[09:47] <seb128> need to go for lunch, bbl
[09:47] <didrocks> it's using update-rc.d
[09:47] <Laney> does update-rc.d make an override?
[09:47] <didrocks> good week-end seb128 :)
[09:47] <didrocks> IIRC, yeah, let me check, one sec
[09:47] <seb128> didrocks, oh right, thanks, you too
[09:47] <didrocks> enjoy the "north"
[09:47] <didrocks> :)
[09:47] <Laney> yes, it does
[09:48] <seb128> hehe, and you enjoy Paris ;-)
[09:48] <didrocks> well, it's far enough from Paris, thanks god!
[09:48] <Laney> do we need to pre-create this file?
[09:48] <Laney> like we do for ssh.override it seems
[09:48] <didrocks> Laney: yeah, so update-rc.d does this
[09:48] <didrocks> Laney: I'm afraid you do
[09:49] <didrocks> for the bindmount
[09:49] <Laney> fair enough
[09:49]  * didrocks imagines how pitti enjoys that conversation :)
[09:49] <pitti> didrocks: what, what?
[09:50] <didrocks> pitti: speaking about mounting hacks needed for whoopsie on touch
[09:50] <Laney> oh, just doing some butchery
[09:50] <didrocks> "sorry for the blood"
[09:51] <pitti> didrocks: ah, you mean https://launchpadlibrarian.net/201618635/lac.debdiff ?
[09:52] <didrocks> pitti: yeah, and now, adding the systemd part
[09:52] <pitti> yeah, every time we add another bind mount, a little kitten dies somewhere :(
[09:52] <Laney> I think they are open to doing something different for snappy
[09:52] <didrocks> pitti: you mean http://ikonal.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/100-chats-1662099.jpg is next?
[09:53] <didrocks> Laney: depends on who you talk to
[09:53] <didrocks> Laney: there is a very long email thread about it a couple of months ago
[09:53] <pitti> didrocks: right, and now imagine that with a blunt fork in its belly!
[09:53] <Laney> I started a new one a couple of days ago
[09:53] <didrocks> yeah, I saw it
[09:53] <Laney> I think asac recognises the problem so ...
[09:53] <Laney> there is hope
[09:53] <didrocks> let's cross fingers
[09:55] <didrocks> Laney: I was referencing this email: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/snappy-devel/2015-February/000285.html
[09:56] <didrocks> especially:
[09:56] <didrocks> "using read-only bind-mounts and
[09:56] <didrocks> tmpfs mounts instead (possibly hundreds/thousands of them)"
[10:07] <Laney> is ubuntu-rtm still relevant?
[10:08] <didrocks> yes, AFAIK
[10:09] <asac> Laney: which problem?
[10:09] <asac> :)
[10:09] <asac> me? :P
[10:09] <Laney> renaming thing
[10:09] <Laney> ogra_: confirm/deny ubuntu-rtm please
[10:09] <asac> so far i didnt get it :(
[10:09] <asac> but i didnt have time to even ask anyone to explain it to me
[10:10] <Laney> ok
[10:20] <ogra_> Laney, not relevant anymore
[10:21] <ogra_> vivid+overlay is the relevant one now ...
[10:21] <ogra_> (wily is not supposed to have a phone release at all (might change indeed, but not planned atm))
[10:25] <Laney> thx
[10:25] <Laney> I think for whoopsie vivid=wily so fix is the same
[11:05]  * didrocks is going to catch a train and work offline. Have a good week-end everyone!
[11:05] <willcooke> see ya didrocks
[11:05] <Laney> bye didrocks!
[11:05] <didrocks> see you on Tuesday, enjoy the long week-end willcooke, Laney :)
[11:06] <Laney> and to you
[11:06] <Laney> GOD
[11:06] <Laney> speedquitting
[11:06] <willcooke> :D
[11:08]  * Laney keeps forgetting that it is a long weekend
[11:08] <willcooke> only if we survive the earth quake apocalypse
[11:09] <Laney> maybe the south will slide into the sea
[11:10] <willcooke> It's the collective will of the Tories in Kent trying to distance themselves from Scotland
[11:24] <larsu> Laney: what are we updating totem to this cycle?
[11:24]  * larsu wonders if he should backport patches
[11:25] <Laney> 16 probably
[11:25] <larsu> k
[11:25] <Laney> has that code changed?
[11:25] <larsu> well, let's see what hadess says first
[11:25] <Laney> because ... we'd probably want to SRU the fix
[11:25] <larsu> not by much I don't think
[11:25] <larsu> I think I'd like to SRU the gsettings-on-startup one
[11:25] <Laney> peas?
[11:26] <larsu> no. gregier wasn't impressed
[11:26] <larsu> I filed a bug though, let's see
[11:26] <larsu> put a workaround in totem at gnome bug #749722
[11:26] <mitya57> attente, seb128: Qt 5.4.2 is not released yet, but we'll update when it is
[11:26] <Laney> i see
[11:26] <mitya57> (that might take a while though)
[11:27] <Laney> well, we'll want it on 3.14 for the SRU either way
[11:29] <larsu> indeed
[11:30] <Laney> thanks for fixing it!
[11:30] <Laney> sorry for the yaks
[11:31] <seb128> mitya57, thanks
[11:36] <seb128> back
[11:37] <seb128> Laney, for systemd, any reason we just don't make the whole /etc/system.d/system writable? that should work for any enabling/disabling of systemd jobs then?
[11:37] <Laney> I don't know - we could have done that for /etc/init too
[11:38] <larsu> Laney: I also found a bug in the dbus action group exporter in the process :)
[11:38] <Laney> heh
[11:39] <larsu> don't think I've ever had that many yaks while working on a "I just need to drop this menubar xml here"
[11:40] <seb128> Laney, yeah, I'm fine doing it for /etc/init as well
[11:40] <seb128> ogra_, ^ do you know why we didn't do that?
[11:40] <Laney> it's probably a principled th ing
[11:40] <Laney> man this pear is really messy
[11:40] <ogra_> seb128, security ... then you could as well make all of /etc writable which we dont want
[11:44] <seb128> ogra_, if you can adb and use sudo on the device security is out anyway
[11:44] <ogra_> well, it is the concept ...
[11:44] <seb128> you can as well set the image to rw
[11:44] <seb128> and change the password
[11:44] <seb128> what concept?
[11:45] <seb128> even mdeslaur gave a +1 on the phone list to pitti's suggestion to have /etc rw with some bits ro symlinked somewhere
[11:45] <ogra_> that only a minimal set of files are made writable ... only in cases where something needs a cache dir or some such dirs are allowed writable
[11:45] <ogra_> the idea was to have complete control over each file ...
[11:45] <seb128> well experience show it doesn't work
[11:46] <seb128> we keep piling hacks to make things writable
[11:46] <ogra_> that is why snappy will make that better ;)
[11:46] <seb128> how?
[11:46] <ogra_> if you want to change the security concept of the whole system some days before an OTA, feel free to discuss that with the new phone team
[11:47] <seb128> no, I don't
[11:47] <ogra_> snappy will most likely use overlayfs with a whitelist
[11:47] <seb128> but I don't want snappy to have the same limitations
[11:47] <seb128> ah, cool
[11:47] <ogra_> depends on how hard the backporting of it to the android kernels will be
[11:47] <seb128> so we are making overlayfs work? ;-)
[11:47] <seb128> great
[11:47] <ogra_> not decided yet ... we need to look into the kernel work
[11:48] <ogra_> but i thnk thats the long term goal in any case
[11:48] <seb128> k
[11:48] <seb128> that's good to know
[11:48] <seb128> thanks
[11:48] <seb128> ogra_, meanwhile can we land https://launchpadlibrarian.net/201618635/lac.debdiff? you or rsalveti were looking at it I think?
[11:49] <ogra_> (if it is as easy as patching apparmor (drop the upstream apparmor dir, unpack ours in there) we will surely do it)
[11:49] <ogra_> seb128, well, is whoopsie ready for that now ?
[11:49] <seb128> ogra_, yes, https://code.launchpad.net/~seb128/whoopsie-preferences/touch-writable-image/+merge/259531 got merged today
[11:50] <ogra_> iirc there was the systemd-like patch needed
[11:50] <ogra_> ah, perfect
[11:51] <seb128> seems like  lxc-android-config  has already some landing up in the system
[11:51] <ogra_> yeah
[11:51] <ogra_> kenvandine was handling the last one ... i think  once his is in we can try landing the whoopsie one
[11:51] <seb128> great, thanks
[11:52] <ogra_> the others should all only be test silos or leftover ones (ken merged most of them in one landing)
[12:05] <Laney> seb128: I uploaded whoopsie-preferences
[12:05] <seb128> Laney, thanks!
[12:05] <Laney> commented on what's left
[12:06] <seb128> thanks
[12:08] <ChrisTownsend> seb128: Hi!  dkessel was asking yesterday about the login credentials of Ubuntu Desktop Next Live session.  dkessel wants to switch to a VT to do some debugging, but it's requiring a username and password.  1) I thought VT's were automatically logged in on a Live session 2) he tried ubuntu/<blank> and ubuntu/ubuntu with no success.  Do you have any ideas?
[12:09] <seb128> ChrisTownsend, hey, replied on #ubuntu-unity
[12:09] <Laney> what happened to the work to turn that into a preinstalled image btw?
[12:10] <seb128> preinstalled? you mean the container thing? or snappy personal?
[12:11] <Laney> didrocks was preparing the bits to make it a snappy image
[12:11] <Laney> the live desktop-next was going to go away
[12:11] <didrocks> ok, staying connected as long as we are not at 300kms/h!
[12:11] <Laney> oh hello!
[12:11] <didrocks> no promise though :p
[12:11] <didrocks> but EMISSCONTEXT with ping
[12:11]  * pitti waves to didrocks while he zips through the landscape
[12:11] <Laney> I was asking about the 'new' desktop-next that you were working on at the sprint
[12:12] <pitti> didrocks: btw, good news! fsckd works fairly well with the /run/systemd/fsck.progress in systemd 220
[12:12] <pitti> didrocks: I just had to drop the fsck modifications and clean up the patch a bit
[12:13] <seb128> Laney, right, but didrocks did rage quit that project, I'm looking at it with robert_ancell next, we just aren't there yet
[12:13] <Laney> haha
[12:13] <Laney> ok, I was just asking :)
[12:13] <seb128> :-)
[12:19] <seb128> Laney, though I'm unsure what the changes didrocks did in London were about exactly, he changed the livecd scripts to prepare some of the work I think, but not sure how that fit with the snappy image build
[12:20] <didrocks> seb128: well, if it's another name, you "just" need to do the same with another name
[12:20] <didrocks> there are livecd changes and at least another component to change
[12:20] <didrocks> +the seed creation of course if it's a new name
[12:20] <Laney> no new name, just finishing up what you did i think
[12:20] <seb128> didrocks, well, snappy images are built like livecd?
[12:20] <Laney> they are driven from the same scripts
[12:20]  * seb128 still doesn't have a good picture of how those pieces fit
[12:20] <didrocks> seb128: yeah, with special propertie
[12:21] <didrocks> properties*
[12:21] <Laney> but they produce a different type of image at the end
[12:21] <didrocks> that's why I did the changes there
[12:21] <seb128> k
[12:21] <didrocks> Laney: it's normally "done", just need to be in production
[12:21] <didrocks> and fix ;)
[12:21] <Laney> does it use the seeds still?
[12:21] <didrocks> yep
[12:22] <seb128> did you upload your changes at the end?
[12:22] <didrocks> it's just the output elements that are differents
[12:22] <Laney> ya
[12:22] <seb128> do we have some wiki/documentation about building a snappy image from a seed?
[12:22] <Laney> I don't know what unknown surprises there will be, surely some
[12:22] <didrocks> seb128: no, we were stuck in willy to open, and then, I retargeted myself
[12:22] <Laney> unlikely
[12:22] <seb128> didrocks, did you stack your wip work somewhere?
[12:23] <didrocks> seb128: nothing AFAIK, just needed to dive into the code
[12:23] <seb128> k
[12:23]  * Laney senses some lag
[12:23] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[12:25] <Laney> there were some branches pushed
[12:25] <Laney> I saw cjwatson doing some reviews
[12:25] <didrocks> seb128: it's in ~ubuntu-desktop
[12:25] <didrocks> just check for recent branches, I guess I don't have enough bandwith
[12:25] <didrocks> seb128: there are MPs as well (approved)
[12:25] <pitti> seb128: if you find some documentation, I'd be interested in that as well
[12:26] <seb128> didrocks, great, thanks
[12:26] <seb128> pitti, ok, if I do I let you know ;-)
[12:26] <pitti> it seems to me that building a snappy image shouldn't be much more than calling vmdebootstrap with a 30-liner shell script to install additional things?
[12:26] <seb128> Laney, thanks for catching that absolute/relative symlink thing
[12:27] <Laney> np!
[12:28] <Laney> lunch time
[12:28] <Laney> aka courgette time
[12:28] <Laney> yum yum
[12:29] <seb128> Laney, enjoy! better to eat light, keep some space for the cheese tonight
[12:41] <ogra_> oh, poetry !
[13:31]  * willcooke -> kids school
[13:31] <willcooke> bbl
[14:58] <Laney> seb128: do you remember a bug about the font preview thing in gedit?
[14:58] <Laney> I thought that was fixed but still seems to be happening here
[14:58] <seb128> Laney, no, what's wrong with it?
[14:58] <Laney> no sample text
[14:59] <seb128> oh, that
[15:02] <seb128> Laney, https://git.gnome.org/browse/gedit/commit/?id=af6d3204ec4a71efff8521f2df7ffb69960279f4
[15:02] <seb128> need to backport that
[15:03] <Laney> ya, can do
[15:03] <Laney> just got forgotten?
[15:03] <seb128> well, I think it was "fixed with new gedit" and larsu was looking at updating gedit
[15:03] <seb128> so we didn't bother doing backporting
[15:03] <Laney> 'kay
[15:04] <seb128> you can maybe just commit that to the vcs to batch for the next upload
[15:04] <seb128> that doesn't seem important enough to bother uploading
[15:11] <Laney> bah
[15:11] <Laney> 9 and 10 aren't in bzr
[15:11] <Laney> just 10
[15:11]  * Laney can't read
[16:02] <qengho> Hey hey. I'm testing a new chromium, and I want a few others to test, especially if you're using a non-default input method.  https://launchpad.net/~canonical-chromium-builds/+archive/ubuntu/stage
[16:03] <qengho> I see some weird problem with typing at a new tab, and I don't know if it's fcitx or Cr or my machine.
[16:03] <seb128> qengho, I can test but I'm not using an im for input
[16:04] <qengho> seb128: well, that is data too. Please give it a try.
[16:04] <seb128> qengho, installing
[16:11] <seb128> qengho, seems to work fine here, no input issue in tabs
[16:12] <seb128> the tab UI is weird
[16:12] <seb128> if you select the entry in the middle of the page an start typing the input/focus goes to the top bar
[16:12] <seb128> is that expected?
[16:12] <seb128> it works, just looks weird
[16:12] <qengho> seb128: so, C-n new tab, "foo"+enter, sends text to location bar and searches for "foo"?
[16:13] <seb128> yes
[16:13] <seb128> I can ctrl-t and type, enter and get google result
[16:13] <seb128> same for new instances
[16:14] <seb128> https://www.google.nl/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8&client=ubuntu#q=ubuntu
[16:14] <seb128> is what I get typing "ubuntu"
[16:14] <seb128> is that sourceid correct?
[16:15] <qengho> seb128: you mean beneath the new-tab "Google   [     ]    eight frequent sites" page?  Clicking in that search box and typing "should" (or has gone for a while in Cr and G-C) to what you and I call the location bar. That part is normal.
[16:15] <nessita> seb128, hi! remmber I had some issues with the desktop where all the characters in the browser (firefox) and terminal completely messed up? it happened again, and not sure hot to go back to a sane state without rebooting. What I see is https://drive.google.com/a/canonical.com/file/d/0B-cmfDncRJmYbEROaFhPRGJCTlk/view?usp=sharing
[16:16] <seb128> qengho, I mean I type in the box on the middle of the page and the focus/text goes to the url bar at the top
[16:16] <qengho> seb128: right. Normal.
[16:16] <seb128> k
[16:16] <seb128> weird experience
[16:17] <seb128> nessita, yeah, seems to be an intel driver bug...
[16:17] <seb128> nessita, https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=88584
[16:17] <qengho> seb128: I think it's training users to just search already, instead of searching for "google" and then searching.
[16:17] <seb128> qengho, I see :-)
[16:18] <seb128> qengho, which tag is our client is? client=ubuntu?
[16:18] <seb128> qengho, not sourceid?
[16:18] <qengho> seb128: the source id is not used by us. Only "client" matters.
[16:18] <seb128> k
[16:18] <seb128> good
[16:18] <seb128> I was unsure so checking ;-)
[16:18] <seb128> nessita, usually when I get that changing fonts or zoom fixes it
[16:19] <seb128> that can be a workaround you can try
[16:19] <seb128> if you don't want to reboot
[16:19] <seb128> nessita, "gsettings get org.gnome.desktop.interface font-name"
[16:19] <seb128> then try to set that to a with a small difference to the size for example
[16:20] <nessita> seb128, thanks (had to re-open the chat in the text terminal because I couldn't read what you were saying :-))
[16:20] <seb128> nessita, sometime selecting works as well
[16:21] <seb128> qengho, confirmed that I've no input issue here, sorry ...
[16:21] <nessita> seb128, you are right! and then pasting on a gmail draft ;-)
[16:22] <seb128> hehe
[16:22] <qengho> seb128: Thanks!
[16:23] <seb128> yw!
[16:23] <nessita> hum, changing fonts does not fix it (tried Arial, Verdana)
[16:23] <nessita> will reboot :-)
[16:25] <seb128> k
[16:25] <seb128> sorry, I don't have a better suggestion...
[17:07] <Laney> bye, happy one day holiday!
[17:07] <Laney> of^