[03:52] <liuxg> why a property defined in Page is not recognized if it is not referred as something like "page.a"? In other cases, it can be directly referred as "a" directly?
[04:41] <Drew_Neilson> Is anyone in here active?  I have a question
[05:38] <nhaines> !question
[05:38] <nhaines> Drew_Neilson: Just peeked in... but in theory I could've answered you if you'd asked.  :)  Don't worry, IRC's a little different that way.  :)
[05:41] <Drew_Neilson> oh
[05:42] <Drew_Neilson> so I'd like to know, is Ubuntu Touch 3.5 the latest stable version of Ubuntu Touch?
[05:43] <Drew_Neilson> I was looking at a list of changelogs, and it appears to be so, but I wanted to ask so I could be sure.
[05:46] <Drew_Neilson> !question
[05:47] <Drew_Neilson> nhaines I'd like to know, is Ubuntu Touch 3.5 the latest stable version of Ubuntu Touch?
[05:47] <Drew_Neilson> I was looking at a list of changelogs, and it appears to be so, but I wanted to ask so I could be sure.
[05:50] <atmpuser> hello, i have an old galaxy nexus and try to run ubuntu on it. I read the manual "porting-new-device", but is is too simple in the chapter "Enabling a new device".  i do not known how to do, next. what i should read next, can anyone offer me some suggestions. thanks!
[05:52] <nhaines> 3.5?
[05:52] <nhaines> Drew_Neilson: what device are you running it on?
[05:53] <nhaines> atmpuser: I believe that porting Ubuntu to the Galaxy Nexus is impossible because there are no compatible graphics drivers available.
[06:21] <Drew_Neilson> I'm sorry nhaines, I had to disappear for a moment.  I'm back.  I don't have a device, I was just wondering what the latest stable version of Ubuntu Touch is.
[06:21] <nhaines> Drew_Neilson: Ah, no worries.
[06:21] <Drew_Neilson> Is it 3.5?
[06:21] <nhaines> It's different for every device.  I *believe* it's r21 on bq and r19 on Nexus 4.
[06:22] <Drew_Neilson> why is it different on every device?
[06:22] <Drew_Neilson> different drivers?
[06:24] <nhaines> Pretty much.
[06:25] <nhaines> Basically, it's a little like asking "What's the latest version of Ubuntu 15.04?"  You just install it and run all the updates.
[06:28] <nhaines> The latest update is nicknamed OTA-3.5 (because it was a smaller update since OTA-4 was delayed) but that doesn't really tell you what to download from the server, which will be an 'r' number.
[06:28] <Drew_Neilson> well, my reason for asking is I wanted to do a Google search for [stability OR bugs iOS-8.3 vs Android-5.1.1 vs "Ubuntu Touch"-3.5] to see if there are any web pages that compare the stability of each of these OSes, and/or talk about bugs in them.  If there are none, then I wanted to Google [stability OR bugs "Ubuntu Touch"-3.5] to learn about any stability issues or bugs in version 3.5
[06:28] <Drew_Neilson> .  But I realized I needed to make sure that 3.5 is the latest "stable" version.
[06:31] <Drew_Neilson> nhaines given what I'm trying to search for, should I say ["Ubuntu Touch"-3.5] in my queries, or should I say something else?
[06:32] <nhaines> I'd be shocked if that came up with anything meaningful.
[06:32] <nhaines> I can say that the OS has gotten progressively more stable, and "OTA-4" is going to jump from a 14.10 base to a 15.04 base.  So it's likely to be bad timing anyway since the entire OS is going to change in the next update.
[06:33] <nhaines> (Scheduled for end of the month, with final QA testing and signoff probably in the first week of June.)
[06:33] <Drew_Neilson> Good that I'm chatting with you then, so that I know this!
[06:34] <nhaines> Yeah, it's a little different.  :)
[06:36] <Drew_Neilson> Ok, so what I gather is that Ubuntu Touch uses a different version system than desktop Ubuntu, and that each version of Ubuntu Touch is based on one of the versions of desktop Ubuntu.  And that Ubuntu Touch 4 will be based on Ubuntu 15.04.
[06:37] <nhaines> The next official over-the-air release to hit the retail Ubuntu phones will be based on Ubuntu 15.04.
[06:38] <nhaines> But I've been running that on my tablet for about two months.  And on my phone I'd go back and forth.
[06:38] <Drew_Neilson> nhaines I guess you're in the development channel, not the stable channel, right?
[06:40] <nhaines> Yup.  Of course, it helped that the stable channel was completely useless on the tablet.  :)
[06:40] <nhaines> They're changing all the channels, though, soon.
[06:40] <Drew_Neilson> how so?
[06:42] <nhaines> I'm not entirely sure.  But I think it's going to make things easier when they have many devices out on the market.
[06:42] <Drew_Neilson> Also, if the retail phones are currently running version 3.5, and will soon be upgraded to 4.0, what are the Nexus devices running?
[06:43] <Drew_Neilson> stable channel, that is
[06:43] <nhaines> They're running whatever the developer put on them.
[06:43] <nhaines> I can only imagine most are using devel instead of devel-proposed.
[06:44] <Drew_Neilson> but with Nexus devices, Canonical IS the developer, right?
[06:44] <Drew_Neilson> oh, nevermind, I just got what you meant
[06:44] <nhaines> The developer is whomever is holding the phone in their hand.  :)
[06:44] <Drew_Neilson> right
[06:45] <nhaines> Basically, all phone development this year has been "Make sure the bq Aquaris works right" with "fix the Nexus 4 if there's time" as the goals.
[06:46] <Drew_Neilson> What I meant to ask is, what is the most recent stable version of Ubuntu Touch for Nexus devices, and will a newer version be coming out soon like it is for the retail devices?
[06:46] <Drew_Neilson> and what desktop version is it based on?
[06:47] <nhaines> I don't know because I'm running it on my Nexus 5.  Which I think tends to coorespond to the N4 build numbers but I'm not sure.  :)
[06:47] <Drew_Neilson> ok
[06:49] <Drew_Neilson> my whole reason for asking all of these questions, is so that I can do the Google searches I described above, and I wanted to use the latest versions of each OS in my query (iOS 8.3, Android 5.1.1, Ubuntu Touch 3.5, etc.)
[06:49] <nhaines> The OS almost never crashes.  Sometimes apps do, but usually due to app bugs.  There was a Unity 8 crasher occasionally but because everything's transitioning from utopic to vivid and the bug was rare, I don't think anyone ever followed up on it.
[06:49] <nhaines> I'm not sure "stable" is going to be a very good metric.
[06:50] <nhaines> Everyone's angry about Android 5.0, 5.0.2, 5.1, and now 5.1.1 is coming out I think on the Nexus 5, but it's been stable for me.
[06:50] <Drew_Neilson> well I figured "stable" would make more sense for all OSes, because "development" versions are, by definition, more likely to have bugs, right?
[06:52] <nhaines> Yes, but a lot of bugs don't affect stability.
[06:52] <nhaines> And all three OSes are so entirely, utterly different from each other you might as well research stability of airplanes vs. steamboats vs. bicycles.
[06:54] <nhaines> There's just not likely to be any basis for comparison.  iOS is a heavily modified BSD with some mobile framework, Android is a Java reimplementation and Ubuntu is a QT stack.
[06:55] <Drew_Neilson> well the bugs in iOS 8 have made the tech news headlines, and I'd also read about bugs in Android 5.x, so I wanted to do a comparison (and add Ubuntu, Windows Phone 8.1, etc.) in order to put them in context.
[06:57] <nhaines> Any headlines are going to focus on the bq Aquaris E4.5 Ubuntu Edition phone, not the N4.
[06:59] <Drew_Neilson> That would make sense, since the BQ is a consumer phone, while Ubuntu for N4 is not a retail phone.
[07:00] <nhaines> And has been out of manufacture for over two years now.  :)
[07:00] <Drew_Neilson> right
[07:01] <nhaines> Plus, I don't think there are any networks of websites dedicated to Ubuntu phones as there are for Android and iOS devices.  :)
[07:02] <nhaines> Just be thoughtful when comparing search results, is what I'm suggesting.
[07:02] <Drew_Neilson> right
[07:04] <Drew_Neilson> but back to a question I asked earlier, if I had a Nexus 4 and wanted to run the latest stable version of Ubuntu Touch on it, what version would it be?  3.5?  and how do the "r" versions factor in?
[07:06] <nhaines> nhaines@savanna:~$ ubuntu-device-flash touch --device mako
[07:06] <nhaines> 2015/05/24 00:06:27 Device is |mako|
[07:06] <nhaines> 2015/05/24 00:06:27 Flashing version 19 from ubuntu-touch/stable channel and server https://system-image.ubuntu.com to device mako
[07:06] <nhaines> So it looks like r19 is the latest stable version for the Nexus 4.
[07:07] <nhaines> Every time a build is promoted, the release number increments.
[07:09] <Drew_Neilson> does r19 correspond directly to Ubuntu Touch 3.5?
[07:10] <nhaines> It probably corresponds to OTA-3.5
[07:10] <nhaines> "Ubuntu Touch" doesn't exist as such and the Ubuntu running on the devices are rolling releases.  the OTA-3.5 thing is more of a milestone for bug and feature tracking than anything else.
[07:13] <Drew_Neilson> basically, I'm trying to figure out which term to use in my search:  ["Ubuntu Touch"-3.5], ["Ubuntu Touch"-r19], or ["Ubuntu Touch"-3.5 OR "Ubuntu Touch"-r19]
[07:14] <nhaines> I doubt any of those will work.
[07:15] <nhaines> "OTA-3.5" might be the most effective.
[07:15] <Drew_Neilson> I'm trying to be as inclusive as possible with latest versions.  Perhaps I should find out what r version the other Nexus devices run.
[07:18] <nhaines> The Nexus 7 doesn't run the current OTA version at all.
[07:18] <nhaines> And devel/ubuntu r2 is ancient.  I'm running devel-proposed/ubuntu r207 on my Nexus 7.
[07:23] <nhaines> The -proposed channel builds daily and then that's frozen and tested and promoted to the standard channel, with a different revision number.
[07:23] <nhaines> And of course, they're changing the way that works--I'm waiting for the final announcement to really read up on how.
[07:25] <Drew_Neilson> where will they post this announcement?
[07:26] <nhaines> The ubuntu-phone mailing list: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/
[07:27] <nhaines> As per https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg12875.html
[07:28] <Drew_Neilson> Thanks
[07:29] <Drew_Neilson> It's getting WAY past my bedtime, so I think I'd better go :-)  Gotta go to sleepytown
[07:29] <nhaines> Oh, looks like the documentation did update though.  I thought they hadn't published it yet: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/image-channels/
[07:29] <nhaines> Haha, all right.  Hopefully it'll all make sense in the morning.
[07:29] <nhaines> Good luck!
[07:30] <Drew_Neilson> oh, so that has info on the new versioning system?
[07:31] <nhaines> Looks like.  I suspect on Monday or Tuesday there will be better information.
[07:31] <Drew_Neilson> Good to know, thanks.
[07:31] <Drew_Neilson> And now, off to sleepytown
[07:31] <nhaines> Good night!
[07:32] <Drew_Neilson> night