| === ScottK changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - 10 years of friendlyness | Status: Applications 15.04.1 Wily: http://goo.gl/valbQd | https://trello.com/kubuntu | http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ | Kubuntu Kickoff: http://tinyurl.com/kubuntukickoff | Kubuntu will be at SELF! http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/ | |Kubuntu meeting May 16 @ 1500 UTC https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-May/009563.html | ||
| === ahoneybun changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - 10 years of friendlyness | Status: Applications 15.04.1 Wily: http://goo.gl/valbQd | https://trello.com/kubuntu | http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ | Kubuntu will be at SELF! http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/ | |Kubuntu meeting May 16 @ 1500 UTC https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-May/009563.html | ||
| === ahoneybun changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - 10 years of friendlyness | Status: Applications 15.04.1 Wily: http://goo.gl/valbQd | https://trello.com/kubuntu | http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ | Kubuntu at SELF! http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/ | Kubuntu meeting May 16 @ 1500 UTC https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-May/009563.html | ||
| === ]Relic[ is now known as [Relic] | ||
| lordievader | Good morning. | 06:37 |
|---|---|---|
| valorie | morning, lordievader | 06:38 |
| valorie | well, good $timeofday | 06:38 |
| valorie | closing in on midnight here | 06:38 |
| lordievader | Hey valorie, I know. I was in that timezone yesterday :P | 06:39 |
| valorie | woah! welcome to jetlag city, lordievader | 06:48 |
| lordievader | I'm still doing rather okay in jetlag city ;) | 06:49 |
| valorie | cool | 06:51 |
| valorie | I usually only have it one day going from W > E | 06:51 |
| valorie | but days and days coming home from Europe | 06:52 |
| === yofel changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - 10 years of friendlyness | Status: Applications 15.04.1 Wily: http://goo.gl/valbQd | https://trello.com/kubuntu | http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ | Kubuntu at SELF! http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/ | Kubuntu meeting May 26 @ 1500 UTC https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-May/009563.html | ||
| yofel | May 26, not 16 | 07:28 |
| sitter | #tardismeeting | 07:41 |
| yofel | heh | 07:41 |
| === dav is now known as Guest96052 | ||
| soee | hmm danyone has problems with shutting down and logout in 15.04 on PC ? | 13:44 |
| ovidiu-florin | soee I sometimes do | 14:18 |
| ovidiu-florin | I'll be a bit late to the meeting | 14:20 |
| ovidiu-florin | leaving work now | 14:20 |
| ovidiu-florin | will get home in about an hour | 14:20 |
| debfx | sitter: can the "Notifying CI" part of the hooks on git.debian.org be done asynchronously? it's a bit annoying that it takes forever. | 14:27 |
| sitter | I rather thought it was forked | 14:29 |
| sitter | debfx: should be now, I am not sure that git actually will return before the childs have returned though | 14:31 |
| === ahoneybun_ is now known as ahoneybun | ||
| === aaron is now known as Guest4586 | ||
| debfx | sitter: thanks. I don't have unpushed commits to test though | 14:38 |
| sitter | me either | 14:39 |
| sitter | always the problem with them git hooks | 14:39 |
| ovidiu-florin | je suis ici :D | 14:44 |
| sitter | that wasn't an hour Oo | 14:47 |
| ovidiu-florin | I was fast :P | 14:47 |
| ovidiu-florin | I got my frind to drive | 14:48 |
| ovidiu-florin | so I'm in the passenger seat on my laptop | 14:48 |
| sitter | ah, smart | 14:48 |
| Mamarok | not in a smart, I hope? | 14:52 |
| ovidiu-florin | BMW | 14:55 |
| ovidiu-florin | '89 | 14:55 |
| mck182 | smart choice | 14:59 |
| bkerensa | :s | 15:00 |
| Riddell | hello | 15:00 |
| ScottK | Hello. | 15:00 |
| sgclark | hiyas | 15:00 |
| yofel | o/ | 15:00 |
| valorie | o/ | 15:01 |
| bkerensa | break dance contest? | 15:01 |
| * seaLne idles | 15:01 | |
| ovidiu-florin | o/ | 15:01 |
| bkerensa | o/ | 15:01 |
| === sitter changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: meeting in progress https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-May/009563.html | ||
| apol | o/, for support | 15:01 |
| valorie | thank you my dear sitter | 15:01 |
| * vHanda waves! | 15:01 | |
| sitter | :* | 15:01 |
| shadeslayer | yo | 15:02 |
| Mamarok | hi everybody, and thanks for joining for the meeting of the Kubuntu Council | 15:02 |
| Mamarok | KC members present are: | 15:02 |
| * Mamarok waves | 15:02 | |
| mhall119 | Hello everyone, I am here to answer any questions raised for the Community Council or Canonical Community Team, but I will otherwise avoid interrupting the meeting, so don't take my silence on any point as approval or disaproval | 15:03 |
| * yofel waves | 15:03 | |
| * Riddell on council | 15:03 | |
| Mamarok | mhall119: we can see that later on, right now we would like to start our meeting | 15:03 |
| * valorie on Council | 15:03 | |
| * ovidiu-florin waves | 15:04 | |
| * ScottK is here. | 15:04 | |
| shadeslayer | I'm here | 15:04 |
| Mamarok | gresat, so are all here, nice we could all make it :) | 15:05 |
| Mamarok | sorry, my typing sucks at time, will try to re-read before sending | 15:05 |
| Mamarok | for the record: the Kubuntu council is composed of democratically elected members of the Kubuntu community | 15:05 |
| bkerensa | \o/ Democracy | 15:06 |
| Mamarok | We have 4 items on our list today: | 15:07 |
| Mamarok | 1. Leadership questions | 15:07 |
| Mamarok | ScottK: I think you prepared informations for our members, could you please provide them here? | 15:08 |
| ScottK | Here you go | 15:08 |
| ScottK | https://skitterman.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/information-exchange-between-the-ubuntu-community-council-and-the-kubuntu-council/ | 15:08 |
| ScottK | This will be on planet ubuntu momentarily too. | 15:09 |
| ScottK | Sorry it's long, but I did try to put the most important bits, the official dicussions between the KC, the CC, and the SABDFL first. | 15:09 |
| Riddell | summary? | 15:10 |
| ScottK | I think it's important for people to read for themselves. | 15:11 |
| BluesKaj | Howdy all | 15:11 |
| Mamarok | since, as ScottK nicely put it in his blog, we do things in a transparent fashion, we think it is our duty to inform the Kubuntu Community members of the current situation | 15:11 |
| vHanda | ScottK: if it's too much trouble, could you highlight the quoted parts of the email in another colour. It's a little hard to read right now. | 15:12 |
| vHanda | maybe light green or light grey | 15:12 |
| ScottK | Sorry, that would take a really long time. | 15:12 |
| bkerensa | ScottK: perhaps due to the tought readability a TL;DR? | 15:13 |
| bkerensa | tough* | 15:13 |
| ScottK | The first few are the important ones. | 15:13 |
| mck182 | ...also in spite of not waiting for everyone to read it, a tl;dr would be nice ;) | 15:14 |
| ScottK | TL:DR the CC believe Riddell has acted in such a bad way towards them that they have "requested" he step down from the Kubuntu Council and any leadership role in Kubuntu. | 15:15 |
| ScottK | Mark Shuttleworth (SABFL) has endorsed that as "not a request". | 15:15 |
| valorie | all of this in secret, without consulting with the Council | 15:15 |
| valorie | at all, ever | 15:16 |
| Mamarok | for the record, AFAIK, none of the Kubuntu Council members were informed on any problems with Jonathan, be this privatley or in public, nor were there any mentions in our meeting on March 19 | 15:16 |
| Riddell | it's an unprecedented and astonishing move in reponse to me asking two really quite simple questions | 15:16 |
| Riddell | I've been making enquiries about these issues for the last three years and they are still ongoing | 15:17 |
| sebas | Question: has anybody from the Kubuntu Council gotten specific samples of proof for the accusations? | 15:17 |
| Mamarok | since Jonathan only speaks on our behalf to get these very old questions answered, the move of the CC is astonishing to say the least | 15:17 |
| ScottK | But the main point, IMO isn't what Riddell did or didn't do, but the utter disregard (imo) the CC used in dealing with whatever it may have been. | 15:17 |
| Mamarok | sebas: none whatsoever | 15:17 |
| shadeslayer | ^^ | 15:17 |
| Riddell | the threads on the ubuntu-community-team have got the issues to a point where I'm mostly satisfied with the responses but now it turnes out they're after me | 15:17 |
| Riddell | I did enquire at the last UOS about a culture of fear in the ubuntu project where people are threatened with blacklisting if they speak their mind, seems I'm a victim of that now | 15:18 |
| valorie | Riddell: please let's keep this to facts | 15:18 |
| Mamarok | we should also emphasize that these two questions have been asked first many months ago, and it was quite difficult to get satisfying asnwers, the last having arrived yesterday | 15:18 |
| mhall119 | sebas: the CC gave a list of things, but did not reference individual emails, no | 15:19 |
| sebas | I've followed it, unsatisfying answers to very real problems affecting the future of Kubuntu and its status as Free software | 15:19 |
| sebas | mhall119: is that the list posted in ScottK's blog? | 15:19 |
| Riddell | I've never been agressive, never taken private comms public, never even got findings that I'm claimed to have not accepted, never knowingly misrepresented the statements and positions of others, never made accusations about the integrity and honesty of members of the | 15:19 |
| Riddell | community | 15:19 |
| valorie | indeed | 15:19 |
| mhall119 | sebas: yes, in the first email | 15:19 |
| Riddell | it's bullying and intimidation that I've had for a few months now by the ubuntu cc | 15:20 |
| Riddell | I have no idea why they find it difficult to understand the canonical ip policy being incompatible with the ubuntu promise or why they find it difficult to understand I have an issue with collecting donations we never had any consultation on never mind use of | 15:20 |
| Riddell | the good news is I've never claimed to be leader of anything | 15:20 |
| Riddell | so it's not actually a practical change | 15:21 |
| valorie | or more importantly, no accounting of | 15:21 |
| sebas | mhall119: I haven't fully read everything, but that's a very vague statement without any sort of backup or proof, I understand that this is not perhaps wanted in public (dirty clothes etc.), but not even involving the members of the kubuntu council makes this very hard to deal with in a democratic and transparant manner -- while that's in the interest of the ubuntu CC as well, no? | 15:21 |
| mhall119 | sebas: I don't understand the question, can you rephrase? | 15:21 |
| valorie | why on earth did you not come to us? | 15:22 |
| mhall119 | because it was not the KC's behavior that was in question | 15:22 |
| sebas | the community council and mark saying "we don't recognize you as the leader of this subcommunity" without involving the rest of the kubuntu council, but without giving anybody the actual information what the decision is based on is not a transparant process | 15:22 |
| sebas | Well, both issues that lay at the base (as I deduce, but can't verify due to lack of data you gave) are highly relevant to kubuntu council | 15:23 |
| valorie | mhall119: he was and is speaking for us | 15:23 |
| sebas | so excluding them from a decision-making process makes this very hard to understand | 15:23 |
| Riddell | it's not even following the rules of ubuntu community, nobody has claimed I've broken the CoC which is what would normally cause this sort of sanction | 15:23 |
| bkerensa | +1 | 15:24 |
| mhall119 | sebas: to reiterate what is in the emails, the topics he raised are valid concerns that we did do our best to address. This action is not a consequence of those topics | 15:24 |
| sebas | and the first sign of it anybody gets is a "this is final", I wonder how that relates to the values of the community | 15:24 |
| ScottK | mhall119: The leadership CoC says, "We gather opinions, data and commitments from concerned parties before taking a decision." Did you not think the KC would be a concerned party? | 15:24 |
| mhall119 | again I am here only to answer questions, I don't mean to side-track the meeting | 15:24 |
| sebas | mhall119: nobody except those with the data you base it on can follow if they're valid concerns, and the impressions are to say the least ... not the same for everybody | 15:25 |
| tsdgeos | mhall119: i guess what people is trying to say is "noone knows what this action is consequence of" | 15:25 |
| mck182 | ^ | 15:25 |
| bkerensa | Riddell: Not only that but even when a member has in the past very blatantly violated the CoC the CC has stood action less which is even more concerning. I think back to when Jono publicly bashed the distinguished Richard Stallmann.... No asking Canonical to take Jono out of his leadership role within the project | 15:25 |
| valorie | and we have asked this questions, as a Council, to the CC, with no answer | 15:26 |
| Laney | What does the KC want to happen now? | 15:26 |
| valorie | Laney: we would like the CC to withdraw this request | 15:26 |
| valorie | and talk with us about whatever problem they might have | 15:26 |
| ScottK | mhall119: If you're here to answer questions, I'd appreciate an answer to mine? | 15:27 |
| sebas | mhall119: second, the decision also affects the KC very deeply, so they're again involved in a central role, yet left out of the loop of communication and decision making (or even verifying the decision) | 15:27 |
| mhall119 | ScottK: we did not believe that the KC was responsible for Jonathan's behavior, no | 15:27 |
| ScottK | That's not my question. | 15:28 |
| ScottK | My question is didn't you think we'd be a concerned party with him being removed? | 15:28 |
| sebas | mhall119: so a concrete question: how will the CC make their line of thinking more transparant and involve all stakeholders as to come to a mutually acceptable solution and way forward? | 15:28 |
| mhall119 | ScottK: the KC is a concerned party in the consequences, but not the cause | 15:28 |
| valorie | no one is saying we're the cause | 15:28 |
| mhall119 | sebas: the CC is open to discussion with the KC on how to procede | 15:29 |
| ScottK | mhall119: The CC decided the consequences without consulting what you agree is a concerned party. That's clearly contrary to the leadership CoC. | 15:29 |
| Mamarok | mhall119: erm, we Kubuntu COuncil members are all democratically elected, and Joanthan speaks for us, in our name, so how does the cause not concern us? | 15:29 |
| sebas | it's also concerned in the cause, since Jonathan often speaks as part of the community council (I can say for myself that Jonathan asked questions about licensing of binaries also on my behalf as a community member) | 15:29 |
| ScottK | mhall119: No. You are unwilling to discuss the one topic that actually matters. | 15:29 |
| shadeslayer | ( As has been repeatedly mentioned in the emails ) | 15:30 |
| mhall119 | again, I am here to answer questions only | 15:30 |
| mhall119 | we've had this discussion on email alread | 15:30 |
| valorie | if that was so, we wouldn't have needed this meeting | 15:31 |
| mhall119 | anybody who wants to discuss the reasons for the decision can contact the CC as a whole | 15:31 |
| Mamarok | so question: can you provide us with exact details on Joanthan's actions that lead you to take this decision? That is a question I asked in my reply, and never got an answer for it | 15:31 |
| Mamarok | several days ago | 15:31 |
| * mck182 seconds that question | 15:31 | |
| bkerensa | mhall119: Question: Did Jonathan violate the CoC or LCoC if so could you point out which portion the CC figures he violated so the KC at least knows that? | 15:31 |
| valorie | thirds | 15:31 |
| === sitter changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: meeting in progress https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-May/009563.html --> context https://skitterman.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/information-exchange-between-the-ubuntu-community-council-and-the-kubuntu-council/ | ||
| Mamarok | sitter: thank you | 15:32 |
| mhall119 | some of those emails are private conversations | 15:32 |
| mhall119 | It would require consent of all involved to release them | 15:33 |
| ScottK | Riddell: Do you have any objection to release of any emails you've had with the CC? | 15:33 |
| Riddell | I' m happy for those to be released, I have nothing to hide | 15:33 |
| sebas | mhall119: Could you also please clarify how the CC can unilaterally decide such a harsh measure without checking with the relevant subcommunity (KC or individual members) before the decision is declared final? | 15:33 |
| Sho_ | It feels to me like you indicted someone who did their job in representing their community, so you've indicted that community by proxy | 15:33 |
| shadeslayer | sebas: well, the decision is final | 15:33 |
| shadeslayer | atleast that's how I've read it | 15:34 |
| Mamarok | especially since all Kubuntu council members are elected by the Kubutnu Community, not by the CC | 15:34 |
| bkerensa | mhall119: could you answer mine then regarding whether Jonathan violated the CoC/LCoC the guiding rules of our community and which portion? | 15:34 |
| ScottK | sebas: My interpretation is that based on what Mark said in his reply to Riddell, the CoC doesn't apply to the CC. | 15:34 |
| mhall119 | bkerensa: it is the judgement of the CC that he did | 15:34 |
| ScottK | That's the only way I can square the circle. | 15:34 |
| sebas | mhall119: getting this consent falls under your (the CC's) responsibility, since a) nobody else has the information to get that consent, b) you are liable to support a measure like this with actual data | 15:34 |
| mhall119 | sebas: you should address the whole CC with that question, please | 15:34 |
| ScottK | mhall119: That was in the first mail the KC sent to the CC. | 15:34 |
| ScottK | Still unresponded to. | 15:35 |
| * mgraesslin just finished reading through all those mails and /me is missing any evidence on what Riddell is supposed to have done. mhall119 can you point me to each individual pieces of evidence so that I can interpret myself? | 15:35 | |
| sebas | mhall119: well, we're here in this meeting, I'm asking questions, it's not too useful to deflect it to "email them", or I misunderstand your role / presence here (please clarify) | 15:35 |
| ScottK | mgraesslin: They aren't available. | 15:35 |
| notmart | I'm quite an outsider, so i have what is probably a quite stupid question, so bear with me. but.. looking from the outside it looks to me that if the kc is behind the current lead, but he gets removed on what it looks like "from above".. it looks like quite a serious problem in the autodetermination of the kubuntu community itself | 15:35 |
| mhall119 | mgraesslin: again, some of those are private conversations | 15:35 |
| sgclark | we all want that mgraesslin | 15:35 |
| ScottK | notmart: I agree. | 15:35 |
| valorie | notmart: you have read the situation precisely | 15:35 |
| mgraesslin | mhall119: that is then very unfortunate and I don't think that's an honest process then... | 15:36 |
| bkerensa | mgraesslin: they are not disclosing that because "privacy" unlike the KC the CC does not operate openly | 15:36 |
| Sho_ | notmart: Yep, that's what I meant with indictment-by-proxy too | 15:36 |
| sebas | mhall119: at least provide those that are not private | 15:36 |
| yofel | notmart: that's pretty much the situation - except that the CC doesn't seem to understand that | 15:36 |
| mhall119 | sebas: those are on ubuntu-community-team and ubuntu-devel lists | 15:36 |
| ScottK | Also, I think the transparency requirements of Ubuntu governance override "it was private" in this case. | 15:36 |
| Mamarok | mhall119: we have gone through all these, and haven't seen evidend of any violation of the CoC | 15:37 |
| Mamarok | evidence,*, even | 15:37 |
| sebas | mhall119: yes, but there are thousands of emails, which pieces are relevant from your point of view is impossible to see | 15:37 |
| sebas | so, pointers and quotes would be needed (along with explanations why the behavior ticks the boxes you say they tick) | 15:37 |
| ronnoc | ^ agreed ScottK . For the sanctity of Kubuntu and it's Community and elected leadership. | 15:37 |
| mck182 | or a simple summary would do too...that surely would not involve private emails? | 15:38 |
| mgraesslin | that's also needed to give Riddell the chance to reply to it - it's all mail communication and things might have been read the wrong way | 15:38 |
| notmart | also, if the Ubuntu community expressed they had a problem with the Kubuntu community decisions/directions, could have been something unfortunate, but i would have understood it, at least the dynamic | 15:38 |
| Mamarok | we can see exasperation from Jonathan having to ask questions over and over again without getting answers, but no violations of any CoC, be this the Ubuntu or the KDE one | 15:38 |
| Sho_ | mhall119: I don't think you're going to get away with not filling this information vacuum and documenting your decision, considering there's clearly no community consensus for your decision | 15:38 |
| notmart | from the outside, is hard to even parse a move like that | 15:38 |
| sebas | This is now a public topic, I can't see how this doesn't blow up if not handled a lot better from the CC :/ | 15:39 |
| BluesKaj | almost sounds like some kind of personal dislike, especially if they won't disclose the reasons | 15:39 |
| mgraesslin | mhall119: just imagine how it will look like if media picks it up as "Ubuntu sanctions Kubuntu member for asking questions" | 15:40 |
| Sho_ | mgraesslin: It's the press' *duty* to investigate this, pretty much | 15:40 |
| mhall119 | mgraesslin: I am aware of how this will be spun | 15:40 |
| Mamarok | that is no reason, if there are people who don't like questions they should not be in the body that gets those questions | 15:40 |
| sebas | Well, "spun" due to a lack of evidence that it actually followed a sound process | 15:40 |
| ScottK | Actually, since it was Mark who gave the final "it's final", it'll be Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical ... | 15:41 |
| bkerensa | mhall119: then why not avoid that by distilling the same openness and collaboration the CC calls for on its own wiki page? The KC has been diligent in trying to get the CC to be reasonable on this topic? | 15:41 |
| sebas | you can't really blame anybody but the CC if their lack of following due process turns on them | 15:41 |
| mhall119 | ScottK: this action was not taken by Canonical | 15:41 |
| ScottK | It was endorsed by Mark. | 15:41 |
| mhall119 | Mark is a member of the CC | 15:41 |
| bkerensa | mhall119: in all fairness the CC is picked by Mark (who owns Canonical) and the CC if half Canonical employees | 15:41 |
| ScottK | Some of the CC members supporting it work for Canonical, so Canonical is involved. | 15:42 |
| mhall119 | bkerensa: less than half | 15:42 |
| bkerensa | mhall119: the CC is not a community appointed body | 15:42 |
| valorie | I read that email from Mark as leaving the decision with the CC | 15:42 |
| Laney | I think the CC could still reverse or put this on hold if it wanted to | 15:42 |
| ScottK | mhall119: You have not even been willing to disclose which CC members supported this. | 15:42 |
| ScottK | I don't believe it was all of them. | 15:42 |
| Mamarok | another thing to consider: we as the Kubuntu Community, be this as developers or contributors or users see this move by the CC as being very destructive to us, and it has a very negative impact on our motivations | 15:42 |
| valorie | therefore the CC *can* withdraw their request | 15:42 |
| Sho_ | Mamarok: Yeah - 'This is a statement from the CC that we no longer recognise you as the leader of the Kubuntu community.' is very bizarre, you'd think the Kubuntu community gets a word in that | 15:42 |
| ScottK | valorie: It's pretty clear the CC can do whatever they want. | 15:43 |
| sebas | I have to leave now, sorry for that. mhall119 please work towards providing justification for such a step | 15:43 |
| valorie | thanks for your input sebas | 15:43 |
| Mamarok | we will get more reactions on this since the Community as a whole has now insight in it, but I very much doubt anyone will see this as being cosntructive | 15:43 |
| sebas | Also, thanks for taking the time to respond here | 15:43 |
| mhall119 | sebas: we will do what we can | 15:43 |
| sgclark | thank you sebas | 15:43 |
| Mamarok | thank you sebas, for your input | 15:43 |
| sebas | \o | 15:43 |
| ScottK | mhall119: There's only one thing that needs doing. | 15:43 |
| ScottK | And you can. | 15:43 |
| shadeslayer | I suppose we can close this topic now? | 15:45 |
| shadeslayer | and move to the next one? | 15:45 |
| valorie | well, we've not fully covered "leadership questions" | 15:45 |
| seaLne | it doesn't sound very closed | 15:45 |
| Mamarok | to get the meeting back on track: we have now informed our community about the current situation and will likely get more feedback in the days to come, but it seems obvious that we , as the Kubuntu COuncil, can not accept the request made by the CC without further evidence. | 15:45 |
| shadeslayer | ah ok, there's more :) | 15:46 |
| bkerensa | Phase two of agenda item 1 | 15:46 |
| shadeslayer | Mamarok: I agree | 15:46 |
| valorie | Mamarok: I agree with your summation | 15:46 |
| Mamarok | also, since we contest the validity of this decison because a) there is lack of concrete evidence, whcih we already asked in our first reply to the CC | 15:46 |
| Mamarok | and b) we were never consulted or even informed on a possible problem with Jonathan before this decisions | 15:47 |
| Mamarok | we consider this move to be not valid in the Ubuntu spirit, and contrary to the openness principle in Free Software, dear to all of us | 15:48 |
| BluesKaj | I'm not sure why the Kubuntu Council has to listen to the CC anyway, is it still tied to Canonical somehow ? | 15:48 |
| Quintasan | I am pretty sure that Canonical stiill owns the Kubuntu trademark. | 15:48 |
| Mamarok | BluesKaj: that will be the second item on the agenda | 15:48 |
| shadeslayer | BluesKaj: we use the ubuntu foundations | 15:48 |
| bkerensa | BluesKaj: ^ They own the trademark and other stuff they claim as intellectual property including the compiled binaries | 15:49 |
| Riddell | upstream might have a thing or two to say about that | 15:49 |
| ScottK | Their right to the Kubuntu trademark is clear, however. | 15:49 |
| ScottK | So we are bound to use it within the license provided regardless of how poor we think the license is until it's fixed. | 15:50 |
| Mamarok | indeed, the compiled binaries of KDE are GPL and LGPL to some extend, intellectual property is one of the 2 questions we have been asking since quite some time | 15:50 |
| BluesKaj | ok so what role does BlueSystems have in all this other than a "support position" , then I suppose it's up to them to acquire the trademark | 15:50 |
| Mamarok | as the statement by Canonicalk violates the GPL to that extend | 15:51 |
| ScottK | BluesKaj: This is about Kubuntu, so kind of off topic. | 15:51 |
| valorie | BluesKaj: please don't jump the gun | 15:51 |
| valorie | nobody is leaving | 15:51 |
| Mamarok | BluesKaj: I don't think this is part of the current meeting, I am afraid we can't asnwer all questions | 15:51 |
| Mamarok | let's get back to point 1: the Leadership considerations | 15:52 |
| BluesKaj | valorie, well I'm not as informed as I should be about the Canonical and it's relationship to Kubuntu so I aplologise for my directness | 15:52 |
| Mamarok | summary I have just given above, any comments from the other KC members, something I forgot? | 15:52 |
| shadeslayer | looks good to me | 15:53 |
| ScottK | I completely agree that the CC's actions are contrary to both the Ubuntu CoC and the Ubuntu leadership CoC. | 15:53 |
| ronnoc | Well to transition to getting back on track, the KC should be prepared to formalize some contigincy plans if the answers coming (or apparntly not comming) from Ubuntu leadership and the CC are deemed un-justifiable by the KC. | 15:53 |
| shadeslayer | yep | 15:53 |
| valorie | ronnoc: of course | 15:53 |
| ronnoc | Although that would be in a future meeting, ofc | 15:53 |
| ScottK | As such, I think they could be ignored as invalid, except for the SABDFL override. | 15:54 |
| ScottK | That concerns me. | 15:54 |
| Mamarok | so this leads us to the second item on our agenda: | 15:54 |
| Mamarok | 2. Kubuntu Council constitution clarification | 15:54 |
| Mamarok | the council constitution can be found here: http://www.kubuntu.org/kubuntu-council | 15:54 |
| ScottK | I move for a vote. | 15:55 |
| bkerensa | ScottK: what is your motion regarding the constitution | 15:55 |
| bkerensa | "I move that...." | 15:55 |
| ScottK | I move that we vote to accept the proposed modification of the KC constitution. | 15:56 |
| ScottK | Thanks. | 15:56 |
| bkerensa | ScottK: is a copy of the diff available? | 15:56 |
| ScottK | I don't have one. | 15:56 |
| shadeslayer | +1 | 15:57 |
| ScottK | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-May/009565.html | 15:57 |
| Riddell | +1 | 15:58 |
| Mamarok | +1 from me as well | 15:58 |
| ScottK | +1 from me. | 15:58 |
| valorie | +1 | 15:58 |
| * shadeslayer pokes yofel | 15:58 | |
| shadeslayer | though we have quorum don't we | 15:59 |
| valorie | we do | 15:59 |
| Mamarok | anyway, we have quorum, so the change is accepted | 15:59 |
| bkerensa | the motion passes unanimously with the quorum present | 15:59 |
| yofel | +1 from me | 15:59 |
| Mamarok | than you bkerensa :) | 15:59 |
| Mamarok | even better, elt me rephrase that: | 15:59 |
| Mamarok | the motion passes unanimously with all Kubuntu Council mmbers present | 16:00 |
| Mamarok | members* | 16:00 |
| Mamarok | gosh, one would think that my typing would improve with age... | 16:00 |
| bkerensa | \o/ | 16:00 |
| ScottK | Would someone please update kubuntu.org. | 16:00 |
| Mamarok | so, we arrive at point 3 of the agenda: | 16:00 |
| Mamarok | 3. Benjamin Kerensa's membershp application | 16:01 |
| Mamarok | membership* | 16:01 |
| Quintasan | Grilling time? | 16:01 |
| valorie | hi Ben, do you have a link to your application? | 16:01 |
| Mamarok | bkerensa: maybe a short introduction? | 16:01 |
| bkerensa | Hello all | 16:01 |
| bkerensa | wiki.ubuntu.com/bkerensa/KubuntuMembership_Application | 16:01 |
| bkerensa | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bkerensa/KubuntuMembership_Application | 16:01 |
| shadeslayer | I'm not sure how to update kubuntu.org | 16:01 |
| shadeslayer | so maybe Riddell can do that | 16:01 |
| Mamarok | bkerensa: impressive, but we oldtimers already know you since quite some time :) | 16:02 |
| bkerensa | Any questions? | 16:02 |
| sgclark | He lives in Portland, +1 from me ! | 16:02 |
| valorie | lol | 16:03 |
| Mamarok | bkerensa: I see you also work on a Qt-based application, nice! | 16:03 |
| bkerensa | I have yes | 16:03 |
| * valorie could do with some stumptown about now.... | 16:03 | |
| mck182 | ScottK: pardon my ignorance - what does SABDFL stand for? | 16:03 |
| bkerensa | and oversaw Firefox Release Management and Thunderbird for certain channels for that matter | 16:03 |
| Quintasan | mck182: Self Appointed Benelovent Dictator for Life | 16:03 |
| bkerensa | heavily advocating for distros to be better supported upstream | 16:03 |
| mck182 | ah thank you | 16:03 |
| ScottK | There, he types faster. | 16:04 |
| Riddell | bkerensa: it's great to have you with us, what first attracted you to the kubuntu project rather than any other part of ubuntu? | 16:04 |
| bkerensa | Riddell: the community | 16:04 |
| bkerensa | I feel like Kubuntu distills the strong support for FOSS values and the Ubuntu spirit | 16:04 |
| bkerensa | I will not go into that further to refrain from FUD ;) | 16:05 |
| ovidiu-florin | I don't understand, what are the changes in the Kubuntu council constitution? | 16:05 |
| Mamarok | ovidiu-florin: see the mail shadeslayer sent to kubuntu-devel | 16:05 |
| Quintasan | ovidiu-florin: Since we don't have a diff handy you can just grab the old one and compare it to the new one which is available on the mailing list. | 16:05 |
| shadeslayer | ^^ | 16:05 |
| bkerensa | Riddell: and my request is to essentially transfer membership so that my membership is recognized by Kubuntu Project | 16:06 |
| bkerensa | versus tapping into Ubuntu directly as it currently does | 16:06 |
| Mamarok | I am all for it | 16:06 |
| valorie | +1 | 16:06 |
| Riddell | +1 | 16:07 |
| ScottK | +1 from me too. | 16:07 |
| shadeslayer | +1 | 16:07 |
| * sitter pokes yofel | 16:07 | |
| bkerensa | his eye is busy | 16:07 |
| Mamarok | +1 also from me | 16:07 |
| yofel | +1 | 16:08 |
| valorie | welcome, ben | 16:08 |
| bkerensa | \o/ | 16:08 |
| sitter | welcome bkerensa \o/ | 16:08 |
| shadeslayer | whoop whoop | 16:08 |
| bkerensa | I feel like I did in 2011 when I got my Ubuntu Membership | 16:08 |
| bkerensa | yay | 16:08 |
| Mamarok | unanimously, congratualtions and welcome, bkerensa :) | 16:08 |
| Quintasan | Congratulations! | 16:09 |
| sgclark | yay bkerensa! | 16:09 |
| Mamarok | one last item we should clarfy in this meeting: | 16:09 |
| Mamarok | regarding the lack of evidence provided by the CC to remove Joanthan from the Kubuntu Council | 16:09 |
| bkerensa | Mamarok: one sec | 16:09 |
| bkerensa | I move that the KC resolve that the request by the CC is invalid and that Jonathan will continue to be a part of the Kubuntu Council as elected. | 16:10 |
| bkerensa | ;) | 16:10 |
| Mamarok | thank you, bkerensa :) | 16:10 |
| bkerensa | any 2nd for that motion? | 16:11 |
| shadeslayer | I second that | 16:11 |
| sitter | seconded | 16:11 |
| Mamarok | I think my previous summary in point 1. of the agenda sums that up, and I support that motion | 16:11 |
| shadeslayer | yep | 16:11 |
| shadeslayer | +1 | 16:11 |
| Mamarok | so let's vote: | 16:11 |
| Mamarok | +1 | 16:11 |
| valorie | +1 | 16:11 |
| yofel | +1 | 16:11 |
| Riddell | +0 | 16:12 |
| ovidiu-florin | +1 | 16:12 |
| * Mamarok ppokes ScottK | 16:12 | |
| * ovidiu-florin finally caught up | 16:12 | |
| valorie | all kubuntu members, feel free to +1 if you agree | 16:12 |
| valorie | for the record | 16:12 |
| bkerensa | +1 | 16:12 |
| sitter | +1 | 16:12 |
| ScottK | +0. I agree 100% about how the decision was made by the CC and that being invalid, but I'm afraid the way things work, the fact that it was SABDFL'ed can't be ignored. | 16:12 |
| Mamarok | indeed, since this is about a community elected KC member, you can all chime in, we have quorum from the Council anyway | 16:13 |
| sgclark | I have deep concerns | 16:13 |
| valorie | I would hope that the CC withdraws their request | 16:13 |
| Mamarok | ScottK: sgclark: time will tell | 16:13 |
| valorie | so we can talk | 16:13 |
| ScottK | I do hope he changes his mind. | 16:13 |
| Quintasan | +1 | 16:14 |
| ovidiu-florin | What are our alternatives? | 16:14 |
| Quintasan | mhall119: Thanks for keeping up with the barrage of questions. | 16:14 |
| sgclark | anyway a +1 from me only in support of our team. | 16:15 |
| mhall119 | Quintasan: I am happy to help however I can | 16:15 |
| ScottK | bkerensa: Added. Welcome to the team. | 16:15 |
| Riddell | I updated the constitution | 16:15 |
| shadeslayer | mhall119: indeed, thanks for being here :) | 16:15 |
| Riddell | on the website | 16:15 |
| Mamarok | Riddell: thank you :) | 16:15 |
| valorie | mhall119: thank you for showing up | 16:15 |
| valorie | ovidiu-florin: without Riddell, do you mean? | 16:16 |
| Mamarok | so we st5ill have the point Q&A, any other questions to the Kubutnu COuncil? | 16:16 |
| yofel | mhall119: thanks for taking yout time to be here | 16:16 |
| shadeslayer | any other misc. motions? | 16:16 |
| valorie | ovidiu-florin: because we're keeping our Che Riddell | 16:16 |
| valorie | :-) | 16:16 |
| ovidiu-florin | În case they/he doesn't change their minds | 16:16 |
| sitter | I move that I am awesome! | 16:17 |
| yofel | I have to run, thanks all for showing up for the meeting, laters | 16:17 |
| sgclark | lol | 16:17 |
| ovidiu-florin | How will that affect us? | 16:17 |
| shadeslayer | sitter: +0 :P | 16:17 |
| Riddell | hola chicos, soy Riddell de la Casa Riddell en Valparaiso | 16:17 |
| valorie | ovidiu-florin: I guess that would be their move to make then | 16:17 |
| shadeslayer | sitter: everyone's awesome | 16:17 |
| sitter | indeed | 16:17 |
| valorie | bye yofel, thanks for your participation | 16:17 |
| Mamarok | sitter: that we know already, but since Riddell lives in Spain,w e should call him spanish names | 16:18 |
| Mamarok | how about? El Comandante | 16:18 |
| sitter | I second the spanish name calling | 16:18 |
| valorie | ovidiu-florin: do you have any suggestions we should consider? | 16:18 |
| * Mamarok can't even put the question makrs right.. | 16:18 | |
| sitter | Mamarok: since we are out of relevant things to talk about we can call the meeting I guess | 16:18 |
| shadeslayer | yeah I reckon | 16:18 |
| Mamarok | I have been asking exactly that, Any questions for point 4: Q&A? | 16:18 |
| sitter | many, none of them serious or relevant :) | 16:19 |
| ovidiu-florin | I won't continue to contribute to kubuntu without Riddell | 16:19 |
| mgraesslin | what ways does the CC have to enforce their decision? | 16:20 |
| ovidiu-florin | Unless he decides to leave for his own reasons | 16:20 |
| valorie | mgraesslin: good question | 16:20 |
| seaLne | i guess the cc can stop talking to him? | 16:20 |
| ScottK | mgraesslin: That's an interesting question. They can ask Canonical IS to remove Riddell from the Kubuntu Council team in Launchpad. They can refuse to recognize him as a leader in KC/CC dealings. | 16:21 |
| ovidiu-florin | Can they delete his lp account? | 16:21 |
| ScottK | ovidiu-florin: Not for this. | 16:21 |
| shadeslayer | mgraesslin: purely speculation on my part, he gets removed from Kubuntu Council and other leadership positions from Launchpad and stop recognizing him as a leader for all intents and purposes | 16:21 |
| ScottK | They specifically said it wasn't a ban on development. | 16:21 |
| shadeslayer | yep ^ | 16:21 |
| Riddell | I should point out again, I've never claimed to be leader and never had any sort of title of one so there's nothing to remove | 16:21 |
| valorie | one of us will have to take over the liason with the CC I guess | 16:21 |
| ronnoc | Jono just posted on the ML asking for reasons that there even *needs* to be a KC. | 16:21 |
| valorie | ! | 16:22 |
| shadeslayer | ronnoc: I'm unsure if jono knows there was a KC before | 16:22 |
| shadeslayer | which would be odd | 16:22 |
| shadeslayer | I'm still trying to make sense of that email | 16:22 |
| Mamarok | we exist since ages | 16:22 |
| Mamarok | which ML? | 16:22 |
| valorie | since before the CC I think? | 16:22 |
| shadeslayer | Mamarok: ubuntu-community-team | 16:22 |
| ronnoc | cc ml | 16:22 |
| shadeslayer | valorie: you're right | 16:22 |
| ronnoc | oops ^ | 16:22 |
| mhall119 | just to make sure everyone is aware, jono is not longer the Ubuntu Commmunity Manager or employed by Canonical | 16:22 |
| shadeslayer | https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-community-team/2015-May/000536.html | 16:23 |
| ScottK | I don't seem to have that mail. | 16:23 |
| shadeslayer | mhall119: *nod* | 16:23 |
| ScottK | Someone ought to reply that since the KC pre-dates his involvement in the project, he probably just doesn't understand. | 16:23 |
| Mamarok | ah, just arrived in my inbox now | 16:23 |
| sitter | xD | 16:23 |
| mgraesslin | please be considerate and don't pour oil into the fire | 16:24 |
| ovidiu-florin | Who is Jono? | 16:24 |
| sitter | Mamarok: are you ending the meeting so I can get something to eat please :) | 16:24 |
| ScottK | ovidiu-florin: Former Canonical community manager. | 16:24 |
| ovidiu-florin | I thought the meeting was over | 16:25 |
| Mamarok | ovidiu-florin: you just made me LOL | 16:25 |
| * Riddell blogs http://jriddell.org/2015/05/26/reaffirmed-on-the-kubuntu-council/ | 16:25 | |
| Mamarok | sitter: i think so, yes | 16:25 |
| Mamarok | can I close the meeting? | 16:25 |
| valorie | \o/ | 16:25 |
| valorie | I move that we end the meeting | 16:25 |
| valorie | do I hear a second? | 16:26 |
| shadeslayer | Mamarok: yep | 16:26 |
| sitter | I second the motion | 16:26 |
| ScottK | Second | 16:26 |
| Mamarok | since there have been other questions adressed to the KC, I close the meeting | 16:26 |
| ScottK | OK. I need to go. | 16:26 |
| ScottK | See you all later. | 16:26 |
| * valorie needs moar sleep | 16:26 | |
| valorie | laters | 16:26 |
| === sitter changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - 10 years of friendlyness | Status: Applications 15.04.1 Wily: http://goo.gl/valbQd | https://trello.com/kubuntu | http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ | Kubuntu at SELF! http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/ | Meeting Log @15:00 http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/05/26/%23kubuntu-devel.html (minutes due shortly) | ||
| Mamarok | thank you everybody for attending, and having everybody present, and to interested Kubuntu and KDE community members present as well | 16:27 |
| sitter | indeed, thanks everyone | 16:27 |
| valorie | thank you all! | 16:27 |
| * ovidiu-florin hugs everyone | 16:27 | |
| shadeslayer | wohoo | 16:28 |
| * shadeslayer has to leave too | 16:28 | |
| shadeslayer | cya later | 16:28 |
| ovidiu-florin | Can someone send a reply with the conclusions? | 16:28 |
| ovidiu-florin | Please | 16:28 |
| valorie | reply to what, ovidiu-florin? | 16:28 |
| Mamarok | right, Jono is clearly not in the loop, could we please not fuel the fire? | 16:29 |
| ovidiu-florin | Mail list announcement | 16:29 |
| ovidiu-florin | valorie: ^ | 16:29 |
| sgclark | I say ignore it... | 16:29 |
| sgclark | trolls asking for food | 16:29 |
| ScottK | Yep. | 16:29 |
| valorie | the answer is simple: to evaluate prospective Kubuntu Members | 16:30 |
| valorie | that's mostly what we do | 16:30 |
| sitter | BluesKaj: since you asked about canonical ties. it's as with all official flavors... most importantly canonical owns the kubuntu trademark in a computing context along with the gear-circle logo. other than that canonical supports us with build servers (and launchpad as a whole), repo hosting, mail aliases and lists, ISO building and hosting, as well as server and tech maintenance relating to those things. other than that general ubuntu ties apply ( | 16:32 |
| sitter | e.g. canonical employees would be part of various boards/councils/committees that have authority over all the ubuntu archive etc) | 16:32 |
| ovidiu-florin | Yey or ney on the reply? | 16:32 |
| Mamarok | ovidiu-florin: what reply? | 16:33 |
| ovidiu-florin | With the meeting conclusions | 16:34 |
| ovidiu-florin | To the mail list meeting announcement | 16:34 |
| sitter | ovidiu-florin: needs minutes drafting first, I sent a link to the log meanwhile | 16:35 |
| * sitter afk looking for something to eat | 16:35 | |
| * Riddell out canoeing | 16:37 | |
| Mamarok | Riddell: enjoy :) | 16:37 |
| * ovidiu-florin is jealous on Riddell | 16:37 | |
| bkerensa | oh shiish | 16:41 |
| Mamarok | ovidiu-florin: you want a title or what are you jealous of? | 17:06 |
| Mamarok | canoing is wet | 17:06 |
| === alvesadrian is now known as adrian | ||
| KDDA | oh my, I missed all the *fun* | 17:26 |
| Mamarok | KDDA: the channel is logged, yopu can read up | 17:29 |
| KDDA | I have just read it | 17:29 |
| KDDA | hence missing the fun | 17:29 |
| Mamarok | sorry :( | 17:29 |
| KDDA | I didn't realise there was so much politics going on! | 17:31 |
| Mamarok | alwas has, just not ugly like that | 17:33 |
| KDDA | yeah very underhanded | 17:33 |
| KDDA | well I think so, from my view point | 17:35 |
| BluesKaj | KDDA, http://www.reddit.com/r/Kubuntu/comments/37cg79/are_these_the_end_days_for_kubuntu_sabdfl_and_the/ | 18:05 |
| genii | Hm | 18:10 |
| lordievader | Seems like Mandriva is really dying this time: http://www.societe.com/societe/mandriva-421223157.html | 18:11 |
| lordievader | That reddit post seems like bad news :( | 18:13 |
| davmor2 | hasn't mandriva been dead for a while? Mageia the spin off is doing okay though isn't it? | 18:16 |
| lordievader | Yes, and then it came back somewhat or something... I haven't really been following it. | 18:21 |
| Mamarok | they have been in trouble since like ever, Mandriva was never really working well as a company | 18:25 |
| Mamarok | really been* working | 18:25 |
| lordievader | Unfortunately not. Was my first Linux distro. Sad to see it go. | 18:26 |
| claydoh | Sorry I missed the meeting, not that I have anything to add. I have some catching up to do :( | 18:43 |
| === Guest4586 is now known as ahoneybun | ||
| morgan_ | hi - is there going to be plasma 5.3.1 packages for the 15.04 PPA ? | 19:24 |
| === aaron is now known as ahoneybiun | ||
| === ahoneybiun is now known as ahoneybun | ||
| shadeslayer | morgan_: yeah soon | 19:27 |
| morgan_ | thanks - was really just checking if they were planned to come out | 19:28 |
| soee | :) | 19:28 |
| soee | we need packagers :D | 19:28 |
| soee | KDDA: ^ | 19:28 |
| KDDA | I dont know how! | 19:28 |
| soee | :D | 19:28 |
| KDDA | my leader wont lead me! | 19:29 |
| sgclark | I will be backporting stuff to vivid. been busy | 19:29 |
| soee | i think Riddell is out most of the time atm | 19:29 |
| KDDA | how do I publish the packages? | 19:30 |
| soee | KDDA: in own ppa ? | 19:30 |
| sgclark | until you are a dev you must publish to your own ppa then we review and publish on your behalf | 19:31 |
| KDDA | but what good is that to the community? | 19:31 |
| sgclark | see above ^ | 19:31 |
| KDDA | oh | 19:31 |
| sgclark | I am more than happy to review just ping me. | 19:31 |
| KDDA | is there a workflow/schedule? | 19:32 |
| KDDA | Id like to follow someone for a bit, see how things work | 19:32 |
| soee | i think you could follow sgclark if she agree, shes the best when it comes to packaging :) | 19:33 |
| KDDA | need someone to got slow with me | 19:35 |
| murthy | I saw Riddell's blog on planetkde and I am shocked. What in the world is happening | 20:22 |
| soee | what post ? | 20:24 |
| KDDA | murthy: https://skitterman.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/information-exchange-between-the-ubuntu-community-council-and-the-kubuntu-council/ | 20:25 |
| murthy | soee: http://jriddell.org/2015/05/26/reaffirmed-on-the-kubuntu-council/ | 20:25 |
| KDDA | ah he links to it | 20:25 |
| murthy | KDDA: I had signed the ubuntu cod, I am allowed to speak openly here? | 20:26 |
| murthy | cod=code of conduct | 20:26 |
| KDDA | I dont know murthy | 20:26 |
| KDDA | Im a newbie! | 20:26 |
| Mamarok | murthy: yes, go on, please :) | 20:27 |
| yofel | you are, as long as you honor the CoC | 20:27 |
| murthy | yofel: right now, I feel less complelled to hold on to it | 20:27 |
| Mamarok | murthy: maybe sleep over it? | 20:28 |
| Mamarok | that usually helps | 20:28 |
| morgan_ | Are there any examples of his alleged 'crimes'? | 20:28 |
| richmoore2 | most opensource code-of-conducts i've read can be summarised as "try not to be an asshole". if you think you're going to violate that rule then take a few hours to chill. | 20:28 |
| murthy | https://youtu.be/kEotr1Qi1bQ?t=3m56s | 20:29 |
| Mamarok | morgan_: read the above links? We have not received any evidence so far | 20:30 |
| murthy | That is one of the inspirational videos I have seen and often see it when I feel burned out. I understood how much the community means and how passionate people are | 20:30 |
| soee | ah dont worry, kubuntu is better os than ubuntu + unitty :) thay probably don't like this situation -.- | 20:33 |
| murthy | soee: exactly | 20:33 |
| murthy | soee: I have tried may distros and none satisfy me except kubuntu | 20:34 |
| murthy | soee: I can't believe someone could be thinking like this, I need to read the webpage that KDDA gave me to understand what happened | 20:35 |
| KDDA | it basically came out of the blue | 20:36 |
| morgan_ | plans to rebase on Debian ? | 20:41 |
| Etriaph | I've been a Kubuntu user since 8.04, I've only ever been interested in a KDE desktop, I don't believe Canonical supports those of us that make use of the heavyweight on the Linux desktop. | 20:41 |
| morgan_ | it does appear to have a 'we'll send the heavies round' tone to the letter - if that is completely out the blue with no prior warnings that is insane | 20:43 |
| Mamarok | morgan_: we will see time will tell | 20:43 |
| Etriaph | I think a community that they say deserves their respect should be allowed to choose their leaders. | 20:44 |
| Etriaph | If CC feels that Kubuntu is a great part of the community, they should respect the community's choice in leadership. | 20:45 |
| soee | well i think we all stand behind Riddell and he has our full support :) | 20:45 |
| Etriaph | Absolutely. | 20:45 |
| KDDA | Canonical flexing its muscles and dictating how things should be might drive more people to Kubuntu | 20:45 |
| Etriaph | It's just not in the spirit of open collaboration. | 20:46 |
| Etriaph | That there was no warning is disrespectful. | 20:47 |
| KDDA | I agree | 20:47 |
| soee | i need to switch to Wily i think, its so boring when there are no updates each day :D | 21:01 |
| soee | and system works fine -.- | 21:01 |
| KDDA | LOL | 21:01 |
| morgan_ | the timing is bad also - its just at a time where more people are hearing about kubuntu with it being the first 'big' distro to ship plasma 5.x in a stable distro | 21:03 |
| morgan_ | (although Fedora released today, and I think that comes with plasma 5.3) | 21:04 |
| Etriaph | Arch is at 5.3.1 I think | 21:04 |
| morgan_ | yes, I didn't include Arch - I run that also.. | 21:04 |
| morgan_ | but use kubuntu for work desktop/laptop.. | 21:05 |
| KDDA | hopefully the public attention might get a few akward questions answered | 21:05 |
| KDDA | so do I need to sign the packages to upload them to my PPA? | 21:13 |
| yofel | yes, and launchpad needs to know the pgp key | 21:14 |
| ahoneybun | yofel: how does one let LP know the key? | 21:16 |
| Etriaph | You can add it to your lp account, yes? | 21:16 |
| lordievader | ahoneybun: You can add the public key in your profile settings. | 21:16 |
| KDDA | add it to LP | 21:16 |
| KDDA | LP needs the private key ? | 21:17 |
| yofel | no, just the public one | 21:17 |
| yofel | make sure nobody else ever gets the private one | 21:17 |
| KDDA | dont understand this step | 21:17 |
| KDDA | so how does it know its me? | 21:17 |
| yofel | KDDA: https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/ImportingYourPGPKey#Using_GPG_to_manage_OpenPGP_keys | 21:18 |
| ahoneybun | http://www.itworld.com/article/2926838/linux/mark-shuttleworth-ubuntu-community-council-ask-kubuntu-developer-to-step-down-as-leader.html | 21:18 |
| sgclark | debsign -kmeykeyid *.changes | 21:18 |
| yofel | you sign your package with your private key, launchpad then uses the public key to verify that the signature is valid. And as the public key is associated with your account, it knows it's you | 21:18 |
| ahoneybun | thanks sgclark for that link | 21:18 |
| sgclark | ? | 21:19 |
| sgclark | yofel: did teh linking | 21:19 |
| ahoneybun | I saw it from you on G+ | 21:19 |
| sgclark | oh that link | 21:19 |
| sgclark | nm | 21:20 |
| * ahoneybun steps back and tries to get his key on LP | 21:20 | |
| ahoneybun | where are the profile setting yofel> | 21:21 |
| yofel | ahoneybun: there should be a yellow button beside your pgp keys on https://launchpad.net/~aaronhoneycutt | 21:22 |
| * ahoneybun throws chainsaw at LP | 21:24 | |
| ahoneybun | I see the button | 21:24 |
| ahoneybun | but still stuck | 21:24 |
| KDDA | LP keeps putting me in circles to log into ubuntu one | 21:25 |
| KDDA | over and over | 21:25 |
| ahoneybun | so I need to get the key on my system then | 21:25 |
| ahoneybun | gpg --fingerprint prints nothing | 21:25 |
| yofel | right, the private key needs to be on your system | 21:25 |
| yofel | (protip: make backup(s!)) | 21:25 |
| yofel | KDDA: that shouldn't happen :( | 21:26 |
| yofel | maybe #launchpad can help | 21:26 |
| KDDA | shouldnt, but does | 21:26 |
| KDDA | it also accuses me of being a bot when I use LastPass to fill in my password | 21:27 |
| KDDA | stupid thing | 21:27 |
| yofel | -.- | 21:27 |
| ahoneybun | I did make backup | 21:29 |
| ahoneybun | I have | 21:30 |
| KDDA | how do I create more entropy? | 21:36 |
| yofel | preferably by doing some work, but haveged can help if that doesn't work | 21:37 |
| KDDA | Ive tried random typing | 21:37 |
| richmoore2 | be messier :-) | 21:37 |
| KDDA | clikcing in webpages | 21:38 |
| KDDA | but it needs more! | 21:38 |
| KDDA | ah there she blows | 21:40 |
| KDDA | FFS | 21:43 |
| KDDA | Bad bot, go away! Request aborted. | 21:43 |
| KDDA | so the home page in Firefox is Ubuntu branded and Im guessing that Google pay Canonical for that? | 21:45 |
| KDDA | how do I publish my key in Kubuntu? | 21:52 |
| Mamarok | in your launchpad profile | 21:53 |
| KDDA | it says its not imported and "Is your key in the Ubuntu keyserver yet? " | 21:54 |
| KDDA | FFS | 21:55 |
| sgclark | KDDA: instructions to do that were in the link yofel gave you | 21:55 |
| KDDA | it keeps going round and round in circles | 21:55 |
| KDDA | asking me to log in, over and over | 21:55 |
| sgclark | gpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys yourkeyid | 21:55 |
| sgclark | please read that entire link, take all steps and you will achieve gpg on launchpad. | 21:57 |
| KDDA | not when I cant even log in to it! | 21:57 |
| KDDA | is there a launchpad channel? | 21:57 |
| sgclark | #launchpad | 21:58 |
| KDDA | hi folks, does anyone know why LP keeps asking me to log in over and over when trying to add a PGP key? | 22:01 |
| KDDA | sorry, wrong channel | 22:01 |
| Quintasan | Guys, do we support 14.04 -> 15.04? | 22:07 |
| Quintasan | Or it's going to break. | 22:07 |
| Etriaph | Quintasan: #kubuntu maybe for that question. | 22:09 |
| ahoneybun | I got the stickers valorie! | 22:10 |
| sgclark | Quintasan: what do you mean? I am backporting a ton of stuff now. | 22:11 |
| sgclark | I will support our current releases until they end. | 22:11 |
| === sgclark changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - 10 years of friendlyness | Status: Applications 15.04.1 Vivid http://goo.gl/nf5Z40 | https://trello.com/kubuntu | http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ | Kubuntu at SELF! http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/ | Meeting Log @15:00 http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/05/26/%23kubuntu-devel.html (minutes due shortly) | ||
| yofel | Quintasan: support no, and I don't think the foundation folks did much testing on the systemd migration from trusty | 22:13 |
| * sgclark wonders what support we are talking about | 22:14 | |
| Quintasan | sgclark: I'm wondering if people who want to run 15.04 and have 14.04 can upgrade or we support only clean installs. | 22:14 |
| sgclark | oh | 22:15 |
| sgclark | that is tricky with the aforementioned systemd change. | 22:15 |
| Quintasan | Yeah. I forgot about. | 22:15 |
| valorie | weeeee | 22:15 |
| Quintasan | I had no problems with it. | 22:15 |
| Quintasan | But the graphic drivers drive me crazy. | 22:15 |
| yofel | theoretically, they would have to upgrade to 14.10 and then to 15.04, or wait until 16.04 | 22:16 |
| valorie | we'll need to get more, as I bet you'll use them all at SELF | 22:16 |
| ahoneybun | valorie: I'm worried about asking for funds at this moment | 22:16 |
| * valorie just got back online and needs to read up | 22:16 | |
| yofel | you can still make the upgrade to mentioned work, but it's neither tested nor supported | 22:16 |
| * sgclark totally forgot about 14.10 | 22:16 | |
| yofel | s/to/you | 22:16 |
| valorie | well, we have Kubuntu funds if they refuse us | 22:16 |
| ahoneybun | so I might be able to use the left over money from akademy for sticker | 22:16 |
| ahoneybun | as they are cheapers then shirts | 22:17 |
| genii | jussi needs to start selling more shirts and anything else | 22:18 |
| sgclark | !testers | 22:20 |
| ubottu | testers is Help is needed in #kubuntu-devel. Please ping Riddell, yofel, soee, Tm_T, shadeslayer, BluesKaj, James147, Quintasan, lordievader, shrini, tester56, parad1se, mamarley, alket, SourBlues, sgclark, neo31, vip for information | 22:20 |
| sgclark | need vivid applications 15.04.1 tested | 22:21 |
| ahoneybun | lots of people | 22:21 |
| sgclark | hmm what else needs backport | 22:21 |
| KDDA | arron, have a photo of the stickers I could see? | 22:21 |
| Etriaph | sgclark: Send me PPA | 22:21 |
| sgclark | https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/next-stage2 | 22:22 |
| Etriaph | Uh, 'DON'T USE' ? :D | 22:22 |
| sgclark | oh | 22:22 |
| sgclark | yeah it is testing | 22:23 |
| sgclark | but wait a few | 22:23 |
| sgclark | seems some stragglers building | 22:23 |
| sgclark | a vm is good to test in if you are not brave :) | 22:23 |
| Etriaph | I'm brave. | 22:24 |
| Etriaph | I've had 0 problems with 15.04 really, I could use some temporary chaos. | 22:24 |
| Etriaph | sgclark: Lemme know when it's reasonably safe to update and I'll give it a shot. | 22:26 |
| * ahoneybun has a few crazy problems | 22:26 | |
| sgclark | Etriaph: thank you, sorry I jumped the gun, alot going on at once. | 22:26 |
| Etriaph | sgclark: It's all good, I'm here every day from about 2PM - 3AM EST :D | 22:27 |
| ahoneybun | oh right me and Etriaph are in the same TZ | 22:27 |
| Etriaph | Where are you located ahoneybun? | 22:28 |
| ahoneybun | Florida | 22:28 |
| murthy | Done reading the blog. Thank you scott for the blog. | 22:29 |
| KDDA | sgclark: how would I import a private key from another user account into Kmail? | 22:39 |
| detrout | Hi. Is launchpad supposed to look in a ppa to satisfy build dependencies? (and if not is there a way to get it to?) | 22:43 |
| detrout | (or alternatively does anyone know a kde-telepathy backport repository?) | 22:43 |
| sgclark | detrout: I just backported to vivid https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/next-stage2 but this is a purely testing PPA | 22:44 |
| Etriaph | sgclark: Is there any way I can watch the progress on the remaining builds? | 22:45 |
| detrout | I had a user ask for ktp with video support for trusty. I'm pretty sure it should work if I could get it to build with newer versions telepathy-qt and qt-gstreamer | 22:46 |
| sgclark | link in status? | 22:46 |
| sgclark | not sure what you mean Etriaph | 22:46 |
| sgclark | detrout: ahh trusty, let me dig that up. | 22:47 |
| detrout | woah... you're doing KDE stuff And you're in the same time zone as me? | 22:47 |
| Etriaph | sgclark: If I can keep an eye on what's remaining to be built (or is still building) I can add the PPA and update when it stops. | 22:47 |
| sgclark | my internet is being unkind and slow | 22:48 |
| detrout | (I'm in los angeles) | 22:48 |
| sgclark | I am in Portland :) yeah crazy sleep hours I have | 22:48 |
| detrout | I'm just used to being 8 hours shifted from everyone on the debian kde team | 22:48 |
| Riddell | Detrout I'm going to la next week | 22:49 |
| detrout | really? | 22:49 |
| detrout | what for? | 22:49 |
| sgclark | detrout: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/backports/+packages I was going to work on 4.14.3 here in a bit. | 22:50 |
| sgclark | a lttile behind, too many hats haha | 22:50 |
| Riddell | Detrout to visit Disneyland I hope | 22:51 |
| detrout | ooh! | 22:51 |
| sgclark | Etriaph: should be able to see the builds in action here: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/next-stage2 | 22:51 |
| sgclark | oh fun Riddell! | 22:51 |
| detrout | May you have lots of fun | 22:51 |
| detrout | wow sgclark you get a lot done. | 22:52 |
| murthy | Riddell: My full support to you as user and contributor to kubuntu | 22:52 |
| sgclark | I am always busy lol | 22:52 |
| ahoneybun | Riddell: you have a hashtag now btw | 22:55 |
| detrout | though, is there a way to get launchpad to look in a ppa to satisfy dependencies? | 22:58 |
| mhall119 | KDDA: /join #canonical-sysadmin and ask them to check on your SSO account to figure out what's going on with the login loop | 22:58 |
| KDDA | mhall119: got it sorted in #lp | 22:59 |
| detrout | e.g. in https://launchpad.net/~diane-trout/+archive/ubuntu/ktp-call-ui-gst1.0 ktp-common-internals wont build because it wants tp-qt 0.9.5, which isn't in trusty, but is in the ppa | 22:59 |
| yofel | detrout: you can add another ppa as a dependency when you click on "edit dependencies" on the ppa front page | 22:59 |
| KDDA | Ive been sent an encypted email, but having user account issues now# | 22:59 |
| yofel | uh wait, it will always look for packages in the same PPA | 22:59 |
| Riddell | Ahoneybun ooh? | 23:00 |
| mhall119 | KDDA: ahoneybun: also try http://packaging.ubuntu.com/ for packing guides | 23:00 |
| ahoneybun | #ISupportJonathan | 23:00 |
| yofel | detrout: you telepathy-qt package was built for vivid, not trusty | 23:00 |
| ahoneybun | Riddell: http://imgur.com/LXYbxRH | 23:01 |
| detrout | ahhh... | 23:01 |
| detrout | thank you yofel! | 23:01 |
| murthy | I would like to express my views and register my protest here, it would be appropriate to be in #ubuntu, but I am never going there. | 23:01 |
| murthy | I never knew Kubuntu community was a "sub-community" as I see Kubuntu as a OS and not as a plugin of Ubuntu. | 23:01 |
| murthy | When I see words like private and secret, I am thinking of ubuntuleaks.com | 23:03 |
| murthy | Coc should be used as guideline and not as a redtape. I see that someone on cc has claimed to be deeply hurt, that needs to be addressed and this issue has to mediated openly by a neutral body. This cc action seems to be a knee jerk reaction to an individual's complaint. | 23:03 |
| yofel | we are part of the ubuntu community, and an ubuntu flavor. Sub-community might not be the right word, but it's not exactly wrong either | 23:04 |
| Riddell | Ahoneybun :) although a lot are about Nigerian politics | 23:04 |
| ahoneybun | lol | 23:04 |
| yofel | heh | 23:04 |
| Etriaph | Thanks sgclark | 23:05 |
| * ahoneybun kinda started a trend | 23:05 | |
| Riddell | Yous can call me Goodluck Jonathan | 23:05 |
| murthy | yofel: so why kubuntu instead of kde ubuntu? | 23:06 |
| Riddell | Blame Jeff Waugh for the name | 23:06 |
| * genii ponders Kubian | 23:06 | |
| * KDDA like Kubian | 23:07 | |
| Etriaph | Ubuntu Plasma | 23:07 |
| yofel | ... the hottest flavor ever | 23:08 |
| valorie | murthy: but we are part of ubuntu | 23:09 |
| valorie | not just KDE | 23:09 |
| valorie | it is the perfect marriage | 23:09 |
| valorie | or has been, until now | 23:09 |
| KDDA | not so perfect :/ | 23:10 |
| valorie | well, every marriage has its ups and downs | 23:10 |
| murthy | valorie: ya that doesnt mean we are a "sub-community" | 23:10 |
| valorie | we're not scampering yet | 23:10 |
| valorie | ok, that was insulting, it's true | 23:11 |
| valorie | but whatever | 23:11 |
| KDDA | can someone help me upload my digikam build/packages? | 23:11 |
| valorie | we just need to lower the heat, and shed light | 23:11 |
| murthy | valorie: Imo I am not sure we have the same ubuntu here where you guys started | 23:11 |
| valorie | rather than the opposite | 23:11 |
| valorie | eh, everything changes | 23:11 |
| valorie | that's what life is | 23:12 |
| === aaron is now known as Guest25588 | ||
| valorie | we all gotta be like Jon and get in the canoe and ride the waves | 23:12 |
| murthy | valorie: Its not just the code, I mean the vision | 23:12 |
| KDDA | valorie: sometimes its not worth riding the waves when you are heading into the rocks | 23:13 |
| ScottK | murthy: Ubuntu is a FOSS project, a Linux distribution, and a desktop. Kubuntu is definitely part of the Ubuntu project/community. | 23:14 |
| murthy | ScottK: Ya i agree, but not in the manner in which they state | 23:14 |
| ScottK | The problem is Ubuntu is an overloaded terms. | 23:14 |
| murthy | ya | 23:15 |
| valorie | murthy: yes, the community to me is the key part | 23:16 |
| valorie | good software is just a good tool | 23:16 |
| murthy | ScottK: I thank you for being direct about kubuntu and riddell and I am sure they are the feelings of the kubuntu community | 23:16 |
| ScottK | Part of the problem is that what SABDFL says goes. | 23:16 |
| valorie | KDDA: skillfull riders use the rocks to create adventure | 23:16 |
| ScottK | Thanks | 23:16 |
| KDDA | LOL | 23:17 |
| ScottK | So one can't really know what the rules are. | 23:17 |
| === Guest25588 is now known as ahoneybun | ||
| murthy | valorie: not just a tool, if i had thought so I wouldn't be here and I wouldn't have spent the time I had spend for the communty | 23:19 |
| valorie | right! | 23:21 |
| valorie | and thank you for your contributions, murthy | 23:21 |
| valorie | kubuntu has heart, which is why I'm here too | 23:21 |
| Etriaph | k, gonna run with next-stage2 and see what happens, wish me luck folks. | 23:22 |
| murthy | valorie: :) my hugs to you | 23:22 |
| KDDA | but you guys are the heart | 23:25 |
| valorie | {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} to murthy | 23:28 |
| valorie | from me, and from the Council | 23:28 |
| valorie | we are here for y'all | 23:28 |
| valorie | and we hope, long-term | 23:28 |
| Etriaph | Hmm. | 23:30 |
| valorie | how did it go, Etriaph? | 23:33 |
| Etriaph | Uh, there's an issue with dolphin, just trying to sort it out now. It's stable, there's just a strange bug. | 23:33 |
| Etriaph | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1422687/dolphin_strange.png | 23:37 |
| Etriaph | Would that be packaging or bko? | 23:38 |
| Etriaph | I did not add all those entries, fyi, I removed dolphin's config files in various locations and started fresh. | 23:40 |
| valorie | huh | 23:43 |
| valorie | always good to file on launchpad, no matter what | 23:43 |
| valorie | file on bko if you find out it isn't packaging | 23:43 |
| valorie | that way the fix can be linked to on launchpad as well | 23:44 |
| Etriaph | And this after adding some places in Kate: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1422687/dolphin_strange_after_adding_places_in_kate.png | 23:45 |
| valorie | uber-funky | 23:49 |
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