/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/05/26/#kubuntu-devel.txt

=== ScottK changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - 10 years of friendlyness | Status: Applications 15.04.1 Wily: http://goo.gl/valbQd | https://trello.com/kubuntu | http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ | Kubuntu Kickoff: http://tinyurl.com/kubuntukickoff | Kubuntu will be at SELF! http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/ | |Kubuntu meeting May 16 @ 1500 UTC https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-May/009563.html
=== ahoneybun changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - 10 years of friendlyness | Status: Applications 15.04.1 Wily: http://goo.gl/valbQd | https://trello.com/kubuntu | http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ | Kubuntu will be at SELF! http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/ | |Kubuntu meeting May 16 @ 1500 UTC https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-May/009563.html
=== ahoneybun changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - 10 years of friendlyness | Status: Applications 15.04.1 Wily: http://goo.gl/valbQd | https://trello.com/kubuntu | http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ | Kubuntu at SELF! http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/ | Kubuntu meeting May 16 @ 1500 UTC https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-May/009563.html
=== ]Relic[ is now known as [Relic]
lordievaderGood morning.06:37
valoriemorning, lordievader06:38
valoriewell, good $timeofday06:38
valorieclosing in on midnight here06:38
lordievaderHey valorie, I know. I was in that timezone yesterday :P06:39
valoriewoah! welcome to jetlag city, lordievader06:48
lordievaderI'm still doing rather okay in jetlag city ;)06:49
valoriecool06:51
valorieI usually only have it one day going from W > E06:51
valoriebut days and days coming home from Europe06:52
=== yofel changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - 10 years of friendlyness | Status: Applications 15.04.1 Wily: http://goo.gl/valbQd | https://trello.com/kubuntu | http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ | Kubuntu at SELF! http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/ | Kubuntu meeting May 26 @ 1500 UTC https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-May/009563.html
yofelMay 26, not 1607:28
sitter#tardismeeting07:41
yofelheh07:41
=== dav is now known as Guest96052
soeehmm danyone has problems with shutting down and logout in 15.04 on PC ?13:44
ovidiu-florinsoee I sometimes do14:18
ovidiu-florinI'll be a  bit late to the meeting 14:20
ovidiu-florinleaving work now14:20
ovidiu-florinwill get home in about an hour14:20
debfxsitter: can the "Notifying CI" part of the hooks on git.debian.org be done asynchronously? it's a bit annoying that it takes forever.14:27
sitterI rather thought it was forked14:29
sitterdebfx: should be now, I am not sure that git actually will return before the childs have returned though14:31
=== ahoneybun_ is now known as ahoneybun
=== aaron is now known as Guest4586
debfxsitter: thanks. I don't have unpushed commits to test though14:38
sitterme either14:39
sitteralways the problem with them git hooks14:39
ovidiu-florinje suis ici :D14:44
sitterthat wasn't an hour Oo14:47
ovidiu-florinI was fast :P14:47
ovidiu-florinI got my frind to drive14:48
ovidiu-florinso I'm in the passenger seat on my laptop14:48
sitterah, smart14:48
Mamaroknot in a smart, I hope?14:52
ovidiu-florinBMW14:55
ovidiu-florin'8914:55
mck182smart choice14:59
bkerensa:s15:00
Riddellhello15:00
ScottKHello.15:00
sgclarkhiyas15:00
yofelo/15:00
valorieo/15:01
bkerensabreak dance contest?15:01
* seaLne idles15:01
ovidiu-florino/15:01
bkerensao/15:01
=== sitter changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: meeting in progress https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-May/009563.html
apolo/, for support15:01
valoriethank you my dear sitter15:01
* vHanda waves!15:01
sitter:*15:01
shadeslayeryo15:02
Mamarokhi everybody, and thanks for joining for the meeting of the Kubuntu Council15:02
MamarokKC members present are:15:02
* Mamarok waves15:02
mhall119Hello everyone, I am here to answer any questions raised for the Community Council or Canonical Community Team, but I will otherwise avoid interrupting the meeting, so don't take my silence on any point as approval or disaproval15:03
* yofel waves15:03
* Riddell on council15:03
Mamarokmhall119: we can see that later on, right now we would like to start our meeting15:03
* valorie on Council15:03
* ovidiu-florin waves15:04
* ScottK is here.15:04
shadeslayerI'm here15:04
Mamarokgresat, so are all here, nice we could all make it :)15:05
Mamaroksorry, my typing sucks at time, will try to re-read before sending15:05
Mamarokfor the record: the Kubuntu council is composed of democratically elected members of the Kubuntu community15:05
bkerensa\o/ Democracy15:06
MamarokWe have 4 items on our list today:15:07
Mamarok1. Leadership questions15:07
MamarokScottK: I think you prepared informations for our members, could you please provide them here?15:08
ScottKHere you go15:08
ScottKhttps://skitterman.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/information-exchange-between-the-ubuntu-community-council-and-the-kubuntu-council/15:08
ScottKThis will be on planet ubuntu momentarily too.15:09
ScottKSorry it's long, but I did try to put the most important bits, the official dicussions between the KC, the CC, and the SABDFL first.15:09
Riddellsummary?15:10
ScottKI think it's important for people to read for themselves.15:11
BluesKajHowdy all15:11
Mamaroksince, as ScottK nicely put it in his blog, we do things in a transparent fashion, we think it is our duty to inform the Kubuntu Community members of the current situation15:11
vHandaScottK: if it's too much trouble, could you highlight the quoted parts of the email in another colour. It's a little hard to read right now.15:12
vHandamaybe light green or light grey15:12
ScottKSorry, that would take a really long time.15:12
bkerensaScottK: perhaps due to the tought readability a TL;DR?15:13
bkerensatough*15:13
ScottKThe first few are the important ones.15:13
mck182...also in spite of not waiting for everyone to read it, a tl;dr would be nice ;)15:14
ScottKTL:DR the CC believe Riddell has acted in such a bad way towards them that they have "requested" he step down from the Kubuntu Council and any leadership role in Kubuntu.15:15
ScottKMark Shuttleworth (SABFL) has endorsed that as "not a request".15:15
valorieall of this in secret, without consulting with the Council 15:15
valorieat all, ever15:16
Mamarokfor the record, AFAIK, none of the Kubuntu Council members were informed on any problems with Jonathan, be this privatley or in public, nor were there any mentions in our meeting on March 1915:16
Riddellit's an unprecedented and astonishing move in reponse to me asking two really quite simple questions15:16
RiddellI've been making enquiries about these issues for the last three years and they are still ongoing15:17
sebasQuestion: has anybody from the Kubuntu Council gotten specific samples of proof for the accusations?15:17
Mamaroksince Jonathan only speaks on our behalf to get these very old questions answered, the move of the CC is astonishing to say the least15:17
ScottKBut the main point, IMO isn't what Riddell did or didn't do, but the utter disregard (imo) the CC used in dealing with whatever it may have been.15:17
Mamaroksebas: none whatsoever15:17
shadeslayer^^15:17
Riddellthe threads on the ubuntu-community-team have got the issues to a point where I'm mostly satisfied with the responses but now it turnes out they're after me15:17
RiddellI did enquire at the last UOS about a culture of fear in the ubuntu project where people are threatened with blacklisting if they speak their mind, seems I'm a victim of that now15:18
valorieRiddell: please let's keep this to facts15:18
Mamarokwe should also emphasize that these two questions have been asked first many months ago, and it was quite difficult to get satisfying asnwers, the last having arrived yesterday15:18
mhall119sebas: the CC gave a list of things, but did not reference individual emails, no15:19
sebasI've followed it, unsatisfying answers to very real problems affecting the future of Kubuntu and its status as Free software15:19
sebasmhall119: is that the list posted in ScottK's blog?15:19
RiddellI've never been agressive, never taken private comms public, never even got findings that I'm claimed to have not accepted, never knowingly misrepresented the statements and positions of others, never made accusations about the integrity and honesty of members of the15:19
Riddellcommunity15:19
valorieindeed15:19
mhall119sebas: yes, in the first email15:19
Riddellit's bullying and intimidation that I've had for a few months now by the ubuntu cc15:20
RiddellI have no idea why they find it difficult to understand the canonical ip policy being incompatible with the ubuntu promise or why they find it difficult to understand I have an issue with collecting donations we never had any consultation on never mind use of15:20
Riddellthe good news is I've never claimed to be leader of anything15:20
Riddellso it's not actually a practical change15:21
valorieor more importantly, no accounting of15:21
sebasmhall119: I haven't fully read everything, but that's a very vague statement without any sort of backup or proof, I understand that this is not perhaps wanted in public (dirty clothes etc.), but not even involving the members of the kubuntu council makes this very hard to deal with in a democratic and transparant manner -- while that's in the interest of the ubuntu CC as well, no?15:21
mhall119sebas: I don't understand the question, can you rephrase?15:21
valoriewhy on earth did you not come to us?15:22
mhall119because it was not the KC's behavior that was in question15:22
sebasthe community council and mark saying "we don't recognize you as the leader of this subcommunity" without involving the rest of the kubuntu council, but without giving anybody the actual information what the decision is based on is not a transparant process15:22
sebasWell, both issues that lay at the base (as I deduce, but can't verify due to lack of data you gave) are highly relevant to kubuntu council15:23
valoriemhall119: he was and is speaking for us15:23
sebasso excluding them from a decision-making process makes this very hard to understand15:23
Riddellit's not even following the rules of ubuntu community, nobody has claimed I've broken the CoC which is what would normally cause this sort of sanction15:23
bkerensa+115:24
mhall119sebas: to reiterate what is in the emails, the topics he raised are valid concerns that we did do our best to address. This action is not a consequence of those topics15:24
sebasand the first sign of it anybody gets is a "this is final", I wonder how that relates to the values of the community15:24
ScottKmhall119: The leadership CoC says, "We gather opinions, data and commitments from concerned parties before taking a decision." Did you not think the KC would be a concerned party?15:24
mhall119again I am here only to answer questions, I don't mean to side-track the meeting15:24
sebasmhall119: nobody except those with the data you base it on can follow if they're valid concerns, and the impressions are to say the least ... not the same for everybody15:25
tsdgeosmhall119: i guess what people is trying to say is "noone knows what this action is consequence of"15:25
mck182^15:25
bkerensaRiddell: Not only that but even when a member has in the past very blatantly violated the CoC the CC has stood action less which is even more concerning. I think back to when Jono publicly bashed the distinguished Richard Stallmann.... No asking Canonical to take Jono out of his leadership role within the project15:25
valorieand we have asked this questions, as a Council, to the CC, with no answer15:26
LaneyWhat does the KC want to happen now?15:26
valorieLaney: we would like the CC to withdraw this request15:26
valorieand talk with us about whatever problem they might have15:26
ScottKmhall119: If you're here to answer questions, I'd appreciate an answer to mine?15:27
sebas mhall119: second, the decision also affects the KC very deeply, so they're again involved in a central role, yet left out of the loop of communication and decision making (or even verifying the decision)15:27
mhall119ScottK: we did not believe that the KC was responsible for Jonathan's behavior, no15:27
ScottKThat's not my question.15:28
ScottKMy question is didn't you think we'd be a concerned party with him being removed?15:28
sebasmhall119: so a concrete question: how will the CC make their line of thinking more transparant and involve all stakeholders as to come to a mutually acceptable solution and way forward?15:28
mhall119ScottK: the KC is a concerned party in the consequences, but not the cause15:28
valorieno one is saying we're the cause15:28
mhall119sebas: the CC is open to discussion with the KC on how to procede15:29
ScottKmhall119: The CC decided the consequences without consulting what you agree is a concerned party.  That's clearly contrary to the leadership CoC.15:29
Mamarokmhall119: erm, we Kubuntu COuncil members are all democratically elected, and Joanthan speaks for us, in our name, so how does the cause not concern us?15:29
sebasit's also concerned in the cause, since Jonathan often speaks as part of the community council (I can say for myself that Jonathan asked questions about licensing of binaries also on my behalf as a community member)15:29
ScottKmhall119: No.  You are unwilling to discuss the one topic that actually matters.15:29
shadeslayer( As has been repeatedly mentioned in the emails )15:30
mhall119again, I am here to answer questions only15:30
mhall119we've had this discussion on email alread15:30
valorieif that was so, we wouldn't have needed this meeting15:31
mhall119anybody who wants to discuss the reasons for the decision can contact the CC as a whole15:31
Mamarokso question: can you provide us with exact details on Joanthan's actions that lead you to take this decision? That is a question I asked in my reply, and never got an answer for it15:31
Mamarokseveral days ago15:31
* mck182 seconds that question15:31
bkerensamhall119: Question: Did Jonathan violate the CoC or LCoC if so could you point out which portion the CC figures he violated so the KC at least knows that?15:31
valoriethirds15:31
=== sitter changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: meeting in progress https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-May/009563.html --> context https://skitterman.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/information-exchange-between-the-ubuntu-community-council-and-the-kubuntu-council/
Mamaroksitter: thank you15:32
mhall119some of those emails are private conversations15:32
mhall119It would require consent of all involved to release them15:33
ScottKRiddell: Do you have any objection to release of any emails you've had with the CC?15:33
RiddellI' m happy for those to be released, I have nothing to hide15:33
sebasmhall119: Could you also please clarify how the CC can unilaterally decide such a harsh measure without checking with the relevant subcommunity (KC or individual members) before the decision is declared final?15:33
Sho_It feels to me like you indicted someone who did their job in representing their community, so you've indicted that community by proxy15:33
shadeslayersebas: well, the decision is final15:33
shadeslayeratleast that's how I've read it15:34
Mamarokespecially since all Kubuntu council members are elected by the Kubutnu Community, not by the CC15:34
bkerensamhall119: could you answer mine then regarding whether Jonathan violated the CoC/LCoC the guiding rules of our community and which portion?15:34
ScottKsebas: My interpretation is that based on what Mark said in his reply to Riddell, the CoC doesn't apply to the CC.15:34
mhall119bkerensa: it is the judgement of the CC that he did15:34
ScottKThat's the only way I can square the circle.15:34
sebasmhall119: getting this consent falls under your (the CC's) responsibility, since a) nobody else has the information to get that consent, b) you are liable to support a measure like this with actual data15:34
mhall119sebas: you should address the whole CC with that question, please15:34
ScottKmhall119: That was in the first mail the KC sent to the CC.15:34
ScottKStill unresponded to.15:35
* mgraesslin just finished reading through all those mails and /me is missing any evidence on what Riddell is supposed to have done. mhall119 can you point me to each individual pieces of evidence so that I can interpret myself?15:35
sebasmhall119: well, we're here in this meeting, I'm asking questions, it's not too useful to deflect it to "email them", or I misunderstand your role / presence here (please clarify)15:35
ScottKmgraesslin: They aren't available.15:35
notmartI'm quite an outsider, so i have what is probably a quite stupid question, so bear with me. but.. looking from the outside it looks to me that if the kc is behind the current lead, but he gets removed on what it looks like "from above".. it looks like quite a serious problem in the autodetermination of the kubuntu community itself15:35
mhall119mgraesslin: again, some of those are private conversations15:35
sgclarkwe all want that mgraesslin15:35
ScottKnotmart: I agree.15:35
valorienotmart: you have read the situation precisely15:35
mgraesslinmhall119: that is then very unfortunate and I don't think that's an honest process then...15:36
bkerensamgraesslin: they are not disclosing that because "privacy" unlike the KC the CC does not operate openly15:36
Sho_notmart: Yep, that's what I meant with indictment-by-proxy too15:36
sebasmhall119: at least provide those that are not private 15:36
yofelnotmart: that's pretty much the situation - except that the CC doesn't seem to understand that15:36
mhall119sebas: those are on ubuntu-community-team and ubuntu-devel lists15:36
ScottKAlso, I think the transparency requirements of Ubuntu governance override "it was private" in this case.15:36
Mamarokmhall119: we have gone through all these, and haven't seen evidend of any violation of the CoC15:37
Mamarokevidence,*, even15:37
sebasmhall119: yes, but there are thousands of emails, which pieces are relevant from your point of view is impossible to see15:37
sebasso, pointers and quotes would be needed (along with explanations why the behavior ticks the boxes you say they tick)15:37
ronnoc^ agreed ScottK . For the sanctity of Kubuntu and it's Community and elected leadership. 15:37
mck182or a simple summary would do too...that surely would not involve private emails?15:38
mgraesslinthat's also needed to give Riddell the chance to reply to it - it's all mail communication and things might have been read the wrong way15:38
notmartalso, if the Ubuntu community expressed they had a problem with the Kubuntu community decisions/directions, could have been something unfortunate, but i would have understood it, at least the dynamic15:38
Mamarokwe can see exasperation from Jonathan having to ask questions over and over again without getting answers, but no violations of any CoC, be this the Ubuntu or the KDE one15:38
Sho_mhall119: I don't think you're going to get away with not filling this information vacuum and documenting your decision, considering there's clearly no community consensus for your decision15:38
notmartfrom the outside, is hard to even parse a move like that15:38
sebasThis is now a public topic, I can't see how this doesn't blow up if not handled a lot better from the CC :/15:39
BluesKajalmost sounds like some kind of personal dislike, especially if they won't disclose the reasons15:39
mgraesslinmhall119: just imagine how it will look like if media picks it up as "Ubuntu sanctions Kubuntu member for asking questions"15:40
Sho_mgraesslin: It's the press' *duty* to investigate this, pretty much15:40
mhall119mgraesslin: I am aware of how this will be spun15:40
Mamarokthat is no reason, if there are people who don't like questions they should not be in the body that gets those questions15:40
sebasWell, "spun" due to a lack of evidence that it actually followed a sound process15:40
ScottKActually, since it was Mark who gave the final "it's final", it'll be Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical ...15:41
bkerensamhall119: then why not avoid that by distilling the same openness and collaboration the CC calls for on its own wiki page? The KC has been diligent in trying to get the CC to be reasonable on this topic?15:41
sebasyou can't really blame anybody but the CC if their lack of following due process turns on them15:41
mhall119ScottK: this action was not taken by Canonical15:41
ScottKIt was endorsed by Mark.15:41
mhall119Mark is a member of the CC15:41
bkerensamhall119: in all fairness the CC is picked by Mark (who owns Canonical) and the CC if half Canonical employees15:41
ScottKSome of the CC members supporting it work for Canonical, so Canonical is involved.15:42
mhall119bkerensa: less than half15:42
bkerensamhall119: the CC is not a community appointed body15:42
valorieI read that email from Mark as leaving the decision with the CC15:42
LaneyI think the CC could still reverse or put this on hold if it wanted to15:42
ScottKmhall119: You have not even been willing to disclose which CC members supported this.15:42
ScottKI don't believe it was all of them.15:42
Mamarokanother thing to consider: we as the Kubuntu Community, be this as developers or contributors or users see this move by the CC as being very destructive to us, and it has a very negative impact on our motivations15:42
valorietherefore the CC *can* withdraw their request15:42
Sho_Mamarok: Yeah - 'This is a statement from the CC that we no longer recognise you as the leader of the Kubuntu community.' is very bizarre, you'd think the Kubuntu community gets a word in that15:42
ScottKvalorie: It's pretty clear the CC can do whatever they want.15:43
sebasI have to leave now, sorry for that. mhall119 please work towards providing justification for such a step15:43
valoriethanks for your input sebas15:43
Mamarokwe will get more reactions on this since the Community as a whole has now insight in it, but I very much doubt anyone will see this as being cosntructive15:43
sebasAlso, thanks for taking the time to respond here15:43
mhall119sebas: we will do what we can15:43
sgclarkthank you sebas15:43
Mamarokthank you sebas, for your input15:43
sebas\o15:43
ScottKmhall119: There's only one thing that needs doing.15:43
ScottKAnd you can.15:43
shadeslayerI suppose we can close this topic now?15:45
shadeslayerand move to the next one?15:45
valoriewell, we've not fully covered "leadership questions"15:45
seaLneit doesn't sound very closed15:45
Mamarokto get the meeting back on track: we have now informed our community about the current situation and will likely get more feedback in the days to come, but it seems obvious that we , as the Kubuntu COuncil, can not accept the request made by the CC without further evidence.15:45
shadeslayerah ok, there's more :)15:46
bkerensaPhase two of agenda item 115:46
shadeslayerMamarok: I agree15:46
valorieMamarok: I agree with your summation15:46
Mamarokalso, since we contest the validity of this decison because a) there is lack of concrete evidence, whcih we already asked in our first reply to the CC15:46
Mamarokand b) we were never consulted or even informed on a possible problem with Jonathan before this decisions15:47
Mamarokwe consider this move to be not valid in the Ubuntu spirit, and contrary to the openness principle in Free Software, dear to all of us15:48
BluesKajI'm not sure why the Kubuntu Council has to listen to the CC anyway, is it still tied to Canonical somehow ? 15:48
QuintasanI am pretty sure that Canonical stiill owns the Kubuntu trademark.15:48
MamarokBluesKaj: that will be the second item on the agenda15:48
shadeslayerBluesKaj: we use the ubuntu foundations15:48
bkerensaBluesKaj: ^ They own the trademark and other stuff they claim as intellectual property including the compiled binaries15:49
Riddellupstream might have a thing or two to say about that15:49
ScottKTheir right to the Kubuntu trademark is clear, however.15:49
ScottKSo we are bound to use it within the license provided regardless of how poor we think the license is until it's fixed.15:50
Mamarokindeed, the compiled binaries of KDE are GPL and LGPL to some extend, intellectual property is one of the 2 questions we have been asking since quite some time15:50
BluesKajok so what role does BlueSystems have in all this other than a "support position" , then I suppose it's up to them to acquire the trademark15:50
Mamarokas the statement by Canonicalk violates the GPL to that extend15:51
ScottKBluesKaj: This is about Kubuntu, so kind of off topic.15:51
valorieBluesKaj: please don't jump the gun15:51
valorienobody is leaving15:51
MamarokBluesKaj: I don't think this is part of the current meeting, I am afraid we can't asnwer all questions15:51
Mamaroklet's get back to point 1: the Leadership considerations15:52
BluesKajvalorie, well I'm not as informed as I should be about the Canonical and it's relationship to Kubuntu so I aplologise for my directness15:52
Mamaroksummary I have just given above, any comments from the other KC members, something I forgot?15:52
shadeslayerlooks good to me15:53
ScottKI completely agree that the CC's actions are contrary to both the Ubuntu CoC and the Ubuntu leadership CoC.15:53
ronnocWell to transition to getting back on track, the KC should be prepared to formalize some contigincy plans if the answers coming (or apparntly not comming) from Ubuntu leadership and the CC are deemed un-justifiable by the KC.  15:53
shadeslayeryep15:53
valorieronnoc: of course15:53
ronnocAlthough that would be in a future meeting, ofc15:53
ScottKAs such, I think they could be ignored as invalid, except for the SABDFL override.15:54
ScottKThat concerns me.15:54
Mamarokso this leads us to the second item on our agenda:15:54
Mamarok2. Kubuntu Council constitution clarification15:54
Mamarokthe council constitution can be found here: http://www.kubuntu.org/kubuntu-council15:54
ScottKI move for a vote.15:55
bkerensaScottK: what is your motion regarding the constitution15:55
bkerensa"I move that...."15:55
ScottKI move that we vote to accept the proposed modification of the KC constitution.15:56
ScottKThanks.15:56
bkerensaScottK: is a copy of the diff available?15:56
ScottKI don't have one.15:56
shadeslayer+115:57
ScottKhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/kubuntu-devel/2015-May/009565.html15:57
Riddell+115:58
Mamarok+1 from me as well15:58
ScottK+1 from me.15:58
valorie+115:58
* shadeslayer pokes yofel15:58
shadeslayerthough we have quorum don't we15:59
valoriewe do15:59
Mamarokanyway, we have quorum, so the change is accepted15:59
bkerensathe motion passes unanimously with the quorum present  15:59
yofel+1 from me15:59
Mamarokthan you bkerensa :)15:59
Mamarokeven better, elt me rephrase that:15:59
Mamarokthe motion passes unanimously with all Kubuntu Council mmbers present16:00
Mamarokmembers*16:00
Mamarokgosh, one would think that my typing would improve with age...16:00
bkerensa\o/16:00
ScottKWould someone please update kubuntu.org.16:00
Mamarokso, we arrive at point 3 of the agenda:16:00
Mamarok3. Benjamin Kerensa's membershp application16:01
Mamarokmembership*16:01
QuintasanGrilling time?16:01
valoriehi Ben, do you have a link to your application?16:01
Mamarokbkerensa: maybe a short introduction?16:01
bkerensaHello all16:01
bkerensawiki.ubuntu.com/bkerensa/KubuntuMembership_Application16:01
bkerensahttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/bkerensa/KubuntuMembership_Application16:01
shadeslayerI'm not sure how to update kubuntu.org16:01
shadeslayerso maybe Riddell can do that16:01
Mamarokbkerensa: impressive, but we oldtimers already know you since quite some time :)16:02
bkerensaAny questions? 16:02
sgclarkHe lives in Portland, +1 from me !16:02
valorielol16:03
Mamarokbkerensa: I see you also work on a Qt-based application, nice!16:03
bkerensaI have yes16:03
* valorie could do with some stumptown about now....16:03
mck182ScottK: pardon my ignorance - what does SABDFL stand for?16:03
bkerensaand oversaw Firefox Release Management and Thunderbird for certain channels for that matter16:03
Quintasanmck182: Self Appointed Benelovent Dictator for Life16:03
bkerensaheavily advocating for distros to be better supported upstream16:03
mck182ah thank you16:03
ScottKThere, he types faster.16:04
Riddellbkerensa: it's great to have you with us, what first attracted you to the kubuntu project rather than any other part of ubuntu?16:04
bkerensaRiddell: the community16:04
bkerensaI feel like Kubuntu distills the strong support for FOSS values and the Ubuntu spirit16:04
bkerensaI will not go into that further to refrain from FUD ;)16:05
ovidiu-florinI don't understand, what are the changes in the Kubuntu council constitution?16:05
Mamarokovidiu-florin: see the mail shadeslayer sent to kubuntu-devel16:05
Quintasanovidiu-florin: Since we don't have a diff handy you can just grab the old one and compare it to the new one which is available on the mailing list.16:05
shadeslayer^^16:05
bkerensaRiddell: and my request is to essentially transfer membership so that my membership is recognized by Kubuntu Project16:06
bkerensaversus tapping into Ubuntu directly as it currently does16:06
MamarokI am all for it16:06
valorie+116:06
Riddell+116:07
ScottK+1 from me too.16:07
shadeslayer+116:07
* sitter pokes yofel16:07
bkerensahis eye is busy16:07
Mamarok+1 also from me16:07
yofel+116:08
valoriewelcome, ben16:08
bkerensa\o/16:08
sitterwelcome bkerensa \o/16:08
shadeslayerwhoop whoop16:08
bkerensaI feel like I did in 2011 when I got my Ubuntu Membership16:08
bkerensayay16:08
Mamarokunanimously, congratualtions and welcome, bkerensa :)16:08
QuintasanCongratulations!16:09
sgclarkyay bkerensa!16:09
Mamarokone last item we should clarfy in this meeting:16:09
Mamarokregarding the lack of evidence provided by the CC to remove Joanthan from the Kubuntu Council16:09
bkerensaMamarok: one sec16:09
bkerensaI move that the KC resolve that the request by the CC is invalid and that Jonathan will continue to be a part of the Kubuntu Council as elected.16:10
bkerensa;)16:10
Mamarokthank you, bkerensa :)16:10
bkerensaany 2nd for that motion?16:11
shadeslayerI second that16:11
sitterseconded16:11
MamarokI think my previous summary in point 1. of the agenda sums that up, and I support that motion16:11
shadeslayeryep16:11
shadeslayer+116:11
Mamarokso let's vote:16:11
Mamarok+116:11
valorie+116:11
yofel+116:11
Riddell+016:12
ovidiu-florin+116:12
* Mamarok ppokes ScottK16:12
* ovidiu-florin finally caught up 16:12
valorieall kubuntu members, feel free to +1 if you agree16:12
valoriefor the record16:12
bkerensa+116:12
sitter+116:12
ScottK+0.  I agree 100% about how the decision was made by the CC and that being invalid, but I'm afraid the way things work, the fact that it was SABDFL'ed can't be ignored.16:12
Mamarokindeed, since this is about a community elected KC member, you can all chime in, we have quorum from the Council anyway16:13
sgclarkI have deep concerns16:13
valorieI would hope that the CC withdraws their request16:13
MamarokScottK: sgclark: time will tell16:13
valorieso we can talk16:13
ScottKI do hope he changes his mind.16:13
Quintasan+116:14
ovidiu-florinWhat are our alternatives? 16:14
Quintasanmhall119: Thanks for keeping up with the barrage of questions.16:14
sgclarkanyway a +1 from me only in support of our team.16:15
mhall119Quintasan: I am happy to help however I can16:15
ScottKbkerensa: Added.  Welcome to the team.16:15
RiddellI updated the constitution16:15
shadeslayermhall119: indeed, thanks for being here :)16:15
Riddellon the website16:15
MamarokRiddell: thank you :)16:15
valoriemhall119: thank you for showing up16:15
valorieovidiu-florin: without Riddell, do you mean?16:16
Mamarokso we st5ill have the point Q&A, any other questions to the Kubutnu COuncil?16:16
yofelmhall119: thanks for taking yout time to be here16:16
shadeslayerany other misc. motions?16:16
valorieovidiu-florin: because we're keeping our Che Riddell16:16
valorie:-)16:16
ovidiu-florinÎn case they/he doesn't change their minds 16:16
sitterI move that I am awesome!16:17
yofelI have to run, thanks all for showing up for the meeting, laters16:17
sgclarklol16:17
ovidiu-florinHow will that affect us? 16:17
shadeslayersitter: +0 :P16:17
Riddellhola chicos, soy Riddell de la Casa Riddell en Valparaiso16:17
valorieovidiu-florin: I guess that would be their move to make then16:17
shadeslayersitter: everyone's awesome16:17
sitterindeed16:17
valoriebye yofel, thanks for your participation16:17
Mamaroksitter: that we know already, but since Riddell lives in Spain,w e should call him spanish names16:18
Mamarokhow about? El Comandante16:18
sitterI second the spanish name calling16:18
valorieovidiu-florin: do you have any suggestions we should consider?16:18
* Mamarok can't even put the question makrs right..16:18
sitterMamarok: since we are out of relevant things to talk about we can call the meeting I guess16:18
shadeslayeryeah I reckon16:18
MamarokI have been asking exactly that, Any questions for point 4: Q&A?16:18
sittermany, none of them serious or relevant :)16:19
ovidiu-florinI won't continue to contribute to kubuntu without Riddell 16:19
mgraesslinwhat ways does the CC have to enforce their decision?16:20
ovidiu-florinUnless he decides to leave for his own reasons 16:20
valoriemgraesslin: good question16:20
seaLnei guess the cc can stop talking to him?16:20
ScottKmgraesslin: That's an interesting question.  They can ask Canonical IS to remove Riddell from the Kubuntu Council team in Launchpad.  They can refuse to recognize him as a leader in KC/CC dealings.16:21
ovidiu-florinCan they delete his lp account? 16:21
ScottKovidiu-florin: Not for this.16:21
shadeslayermgraesslin: purely speculation on my part, he gets removed from Kubuntu Council and other leadership positions from Launchpad and stop recognizing him as a leader for all intents and purposes16:21
ScottKThey specifically said it wasn't a ban on development.16:21
shadeslayeryep ^16:21
RiddellI should point out again, I've never claimed to be leader and never had any sort of title of one so there's nothing to remove16:21
valorieone of us will have to take over the liason with the CC I guess16:21
ronnocJono just posted on the ML asking for reasons that there even *needs* to be a KC.16:21
valorie!16:22
shadeslayerronnoc: I'm unsure if jono knows there was a KC before16:22
shadeslayerwhich would be odd16:22
shadeslayerI'm still trying to make sense of that email16:22
Mamarokwe exist since ages16:22
Mamarokwhich ML?16:22
valoriesince before the CC I think?16:22
shadeslayerMamarok: ubuntu-community-team16:22
ronnoccc ml16:22
shadeslayervalorie: you're right16:22
ronnocoops ^16:22
mhall119just to make sure everyone is aware, jono is not longer the Ubuntu Commmunity Manager or employed by Canonical16:22
shadeslayerhttps://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-community-team/2015-May/000536.html16:23
ScottKI don't seem to have that mail.16:23
shadeslayermhall119: *nod*16:23
ScottKSomeone ought to reply that since the KC pre-dates his involvement in the project, he probably just doesn't understand.16:23
Mamarokah, just arrived in my inbox now16:23
sitterxD16:23
mgraesslinplease be considerate and don't pour oil into the fire16:24
ovidiu-florinWho is Jono? 16:24
sitterMamarok: are you ending the meeting so I can get something to eat please :)16:24
ScottKovidiu-florin: Former Canonical community manager.16:24
ovidiu-florinI thought the meeting was over 16:25
Mamarokovidiu-florin: you just made me LOL16:25
* Riddell blogs http://jriddell.org/2015/05/26/reaffirmed-on-the-kubuntu-council/16:25
Mamaroksitter: i think so, yes16:25
Mamarokcan I close the meeting?16:25
valorie\o/16:25
valorieI move that we end the meeting16:25
valoriedo I hear a second?16:26
shadeslayerMamarok: yep16:26
sitterI second the motion16:26
ScottKSecond16:26
Mamaroksince there have been other questions adressed to the KC, I close the meeting16:26
ScottKOK.  I need to go.16:26
ScottKSee you all later.16:26
* valorie needs moar sleep16:26
valorielaters16:26
=== sitter changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - 10 years of friendlyness | Status: Applications 15.04.1 Wily: http://goo.gl/valbQd | https://trello.com/kubuntu | http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ | Kubuntu at SELF! http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/ | Meeting Log @15:00 http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/05/26/%23kubuntu-devel.html (minutes due shortly)
Mamarokthank you everybody for attending, and having everybody present, and to interested Kubuntu and KDE community members present as well16:27
sitterindeed, thanks everyone16:27
valoriethank you all!16:27
* ovidiu-florin hugs everyone 16:27
shadeslayerwohoo16:28
* shadeslayer has to leave too16:28
shadeslayercya later16:28
ovidiu-florinCan someone send a reply with the conclusions? 16:28
ovidiu-florinPlease 16:28
valoriereply to what, ovidiu-florin?16:28
Mamarokright, Jono is clearly not in the loop, could we please not fuel the fire?16:29
ovidiu-florinMail list announcement 16:29
ovidiu-florinvalorie: ^16:29
sgclarkI say ignore it...16:29
sgclarktrolls asking for food16:29
ScottKYep.16:29
valoriethe answer is simple: to evaluate prospective Kubuntu Members16:30
valoriethat's mostly what we do16:30
sitterBluesKaj: since you asked about canonical ties. it's as with all official flavors... most importantly canonical owns the kubuntu trademark in a computing context along with the gear-circle logo. other than that canonical supports us with build servers (and launchpad as a whole), repo hosting, mail aliases and lists, ISO building and hosting, as well as server and tech maintenance relating to those things. other than that general ubuntu ties apply (16:32
sittere.g. canonical employees would be part of various boards/councils/committees that have authority over all the ubuntu archive etc)16:32
ovidiu-florinYey or ney on the reply? 16:32
Mamarokovidiu-florin: what reply?16:33
ovidiu-florinWith the meeting conclusions 16:34
ovidiu-florinTo the mail list meeting announcement 16:34
sitterovidiu-florin: needs minutes drafting first, I sent a link to the log meanwhile16:35
* sitter afk looking for something to eat16:35
* Riddell out canoeing16:37
MamarokRiddell: enjoy :)16:37
* ovidiu-florin is jealous on Riddell 16:37
bkerensaoh shiish16:41
Mamarokovidiu-florin: you want a title or what are you jealous of?17:06
Mamarokcanoing is wet17:06
=== alvesadrian is now known as adrian
KDDAoh my, I missed all the *fun*17:26
MamarokKDDA: the channel is logged, yopu can read up17:29
KDDAI have just read it17:29
KDDAhence missing the fun17:29
Mamaroksorry :(17:29
KDDAI didn't realise there was so much politics going on!17:31
Mamarokalwas has, just not ugly like that17:33
KDDAyeah very underhanded17:33
KDDAwell I think so, from my view point17:35
BluesKajKDDA, http://www.reddit.com/r/Kubuntu/comments/37cg79/are_these_the_end_days_for_kubuntu_sabdfl_and_the/18:05
geniiHm18:10
lordievaderSeems like Mandriva is really dying this time: http://www.societe.com/societe/mandriva-421223157.html18:11
lordievaderThat reddit post seems like bad news :(18:13
davmor2hasn't mandriva been dead for a while?  Mageia the spin off is doing okay though isn't it?18:16
lordievaderYes, and then it came back somewhat or something... I haven't really been following it.18:21
Mamarokthey have been in trouble since like ever, Mandriva was never really working well as a company18:25
Mamarokreally been* working18:25
lordievaderUnfortunately not. Was my first Linux distro. Sad to see it go.18:26
claydohSorry I missed the meeting, not that I have anything to add. I have some catching up to do :(18:43
=== Guest4586 is now known as ahoneybun
morgan_hi - is there going to be plasma 5.3.1 packages for the 15.04 PPA ?19:24
=== aaron is now known as ahoneybiun
=== ahoneybiun is now known as ahoneybun
shadeslayermorgan_: yeah soon19:27
morgan_thanks - was really just checking if they were planned to come out 19:28
soee:)19:28
soeewe need packagers :D19:28
soeeKDDA: ^ 19:28
KDDAI dont know how!19:28
soee:D19:28
KDDAmy leader wont lead me!19:29
sgclarkI will be backporting stuff to vivid. been busy19:29
soeei think Riddell is out most of the time atm19:29
KDDAhow do I publish the packages?19:30
soeeKDDA: in own ppa  ?19:30
sgclarkuntil you are a dev you must publish to your own ppa then we review and publish on your behalf19:31
KDDAbut what good is that to the community?19:31
sgclarksee above ^19:31
KDDAoh19:31
sgclarkI am more than happy to review just ping me.19:31
KDDAis there a workflow/schedule?19:32
KDDAId like to follow someone for a bit, see how things work19:32
soeei think you could follow sgclark if she agree, shes the best when it comes to packaging :)19:33
KDDAneed someone to got slow with me19:35
murthyI saw Riddell's blog on planetkde and I am shocked. What in the world is happening20:22
soeewhat post ?20:24
KDDAmurthy: https://skitterman.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/information-exchange-between-the-ubuntu-community-council-and-the-kubuntu-council/20:25
murthysoee: http://jriddell.org/2015/05/26/reaffirmed-on-the-kubuntu-council/20:25
KDDAah he links to it20:25
murthyKDDA: I had signed the ubuntu cod, I am allowed to speak openly here?20:26
murthycod=code of conduct20:26
KDDAI dont know murthy20:26
KDDAIm a newbie!20:26
Mamarokmurthy: yes, go on, please :)20:27
yofelyou are, as long as you honor the CoC20:27
murthyyofel: right now, I feel less complelled to hold on to it20:27
Mamarokmurthy: maybe sleep over it?20:28
Mamarokthat usually helps20:28
morgan_Are there any examples of his alleged  'crimes'?20:28
richmoore2most opensource code-of-conducts i've read can be summarised as "try not to be an asshole". if you think you're going to violate that rule then take a few hours to chill.20:28
murthyhttps://youtu.be/kEotr1Qi1bQ?t=3m56s20:29
Mamarokmorgan_: read the above links? We have not received any evidence so far20:30
murthyThat is one of the inspirational videos I have seen and often see it when I feel burned out. I understood how much the community means and how passionate people are20:30
soeeah dont worry, kubuntu is better os than ubuntu + unitty :) thay probably don't like this situation -.-20:33
murthysoee: exactly20:33
murthysoee: I have tried may distros and none satisfy me except kubuntu20:34
murthysoee: I can't believe someone could be thinking like this, I need to read the webpage that KDDA gave me to understand what happened20:35
KDDAit basically came out of the blue20:36
morgan_plans to rebase on Debian ?20:41
EtriaphI've been a Kubuntu user since 8.04, I've only ever been interested in a KDE desktop, I don't believe Canonical supports those of us that make use of the heavyweight on the Linux desktop.20:41
morgan_it does appear to have a 'we'll send the heavies round' tone to the letter - if that is completely out the blue with no prior warnings that is insane20:43
Mamarokmorgan_: we will see time will tell20:43
EtriaphI think a community that they say deserves their respect should be allowed to choose their leaders.20:44
EtriaphIf CC feels that Kubuntu is a great part of the community, they should respect the community's choice in leadership.20:45
soeewell i think we all stand behind Riddell and he has our full support :)20:45
EtriaphAbsolutely.20:45
KDDACanonical flexing its muscles and dictating how things should be might drive more people to Kubuntu 20:45
EtriaphIt's just not in the spirit of open collaboration.20:46
EtriaphThat there was no warning is disrespectful.20:47
KDDAI agree20:47
soeei need to switch to Wily i think, its so boring when there are no updates each day :D21:01
soeeand system works fine -.-21:01
KDDALOL21:01
morgan_the timing is bad also - its just at a time where more people are hearing about kubuntu with it being the first 'big' distro to ship plasma 5.x in a stable distro21:03
morgan_(although Fedora released today, and I think that comes with plasma 5.3)21:04
EtriaphArch is at 5.3.1 I think21:04
morgan_yes, I didn't include Arch - I run that also..21:04
morgan_but use kubuntu for work desktop/laptop..21:05
KDDAhopefully the public attention might get a few akward questions answered21:05
KDDAso do I need to sign the packages to upload them to my PPA?21:13
yofelyes, and launchpad needs to know the pgp key21:14
ahoneybunyofel: how does one let LP know the key?21:16
EtriaphYou can add it to your lp account, yes?21:16
lordievaderahoneybun: You can add the public key in your profile settings.21:16
KDDAadd it to LP21:16
KDDALP needs the private key ?21:17
yofelno, just the public one21:17
yofelmake sure nobody else ever gets the private one21:17
KDDAdont understand this step21:17
KDDAso how does it know its me?21:17
yofelKDDA: https://help.launchpad.net/YourAccount/ImportingYourPGPKey#Using_GPG_to_manage_OpenPGP_keys21:18
ahoneybunhttp://www.itworld.com/article/2926838/linux/mark-shuttleworth-ubuntu-community-council-ask-kubuntu-developer-to-step-down-as-leader.html21:18
sgclarkdebsign -kmeykeyid *.changes21:18
yofelyou sign your package with your private key, launchpad then uses the public key to verify that the signature is valid. And as the public key is associated with your account, it knows it's you21:18
ahoneybunthanks sgclark for that link21:18
sgclark?21:19
sgclarkyofel: did teh linking21:19
ahoneybunI saw it from you on G+21:19
sgclarkoh that link21:19
sgclarknm21:20
* ahoneybun steps back and tries to get his key on LP21:20
ahoneybunwhere are the profile setting yofel>21:21
yofelahoneybun: there should be a yellow button beside your pgp keys on https://launchpad.net/~aaronhoneycutt21:22
* ahoneybun throws chainsaw at LP21:24
ahoneybunI see the button21:24
ahoneybunbut still stuck21:24
KDDALP keeps putting me in circles to log into ubuntu one21:25
KDDAover and over21:25
ahoneybunso I need to get the key on my system then21:25
ahoneybungpg --fingerprint prints nothing21:25
yofelright, the private key needs to be on your system21:25
yofel(protip: make backup(s!))21:25
yofelKDDA: that shouldn't happen :(21:26
yofelmaybe #launchpad can help21:26
KDDAshouldnt, but does21:26
KDDAit also accuses me of being a bot when I use LastPass to fill in my password21:27
KDDAstupid thing21:27
yofel-.-21:27
ahoneybunI did make backup21:29
ahoneybunI have21:30
KDDAhow do I create more entropy?21:36
yofelpreferably by doing some work, but haveged can help if that doesn't work21:37
KDDAIve tried random typing21:37
richmoore2be messier :-)21:37
KDDAclikcing in webpages21:38
KDDAbut it needs more!21:38
KDDAah there she blows21:40
KDDAFFS 21:43
KDDABad bot, go away! Request aborted.21:43
KDDAso the home page in Firefox is Ubuntu branded and Im guessing that Google pay Canonical for that?21:45
KDDAhow do I publish my key in Kubuntu?21:52
Mamarokin your launchpad profile21:53
KDDAit says its not imported and "Is your key in the Ubuntu keyserver yet? "21:54
KDDAFFS21:55
sgclarkKDDA: instructions to do that were in the link yofel gave you21:55
KDDAit keeps going round and round in circles21:55
KDDAasking me to log in, over and over21:55
sgclarkgpg --keyserver keyserver.ubuntu.com --send-keys yourkeyid21:55
sgclarkplease read that entire link, take all steps and you will achieve gpg on launchpad.21:57
KDDAnot when I cant even log in to it!21:57
KDDAis there a launchpad channel?21:57
sgclark#launchpad21:58
KDDAhi folks, does anyone know why LP keeps asking me to log in over and over when trying to add a PGP key?22:01
KDDAsorry, wrong channel22:01
QuintasanGuys, do we support 14.04 -> 15.04?22:07
QuintasanOr it's going to break.22:07
EtriaphQuintasan: #kubuntu maybe for that question.22:09
ahoneybunI got the stickers valorie!22:10
sgclarkQuintasan: what do you mean? I am backporting a ton of stuff now.22:11
sgclarkI will support our current releases until they end.22:11
=== sgclark changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu - 10 years of friendlyness | Status: Applications 15.04.1 Vivid http://goo.gl/nf5Z40 | https://trello.com/kubuntu | http://qa.kubuntu.co.uk/ | Kubuntu at SELF! http://www.southeastlinuxfest.org/ | Meeting Log @15:00 http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/05/26/%23kubuntu-devel.html (minutes due shortly)
yofelQuintasan: support no, and I don't think the foundation folks did much testing on the systemd migration from trusty22:13
* sgclark wonders what support we are talking about22:14
Quintasansgclark: I'm wondering if people who want to run 15.04 and have 14.04 can upgrade or we support only clean installs.22:14
sgclarkoh22:15
sgclarkthat is tricky with the aforementioned systemd change. 22:15
QuintasanYeah. I forgot about.22:15
valorieweeeee22:15
QuintasanI had no problems with it.22:15
QuintasanBut the graphic drivers drive me crazy.22:15
yofeltheoretically, they would have to upgrade to 14.10 and then to 15.04, or wait until 16.0422:16
valoriewe'll need to get more, as I bet you'll use them all at SELF22:16
ahoneybunvalorie: I'm worried about asking for funds at this moment22:16
* valorie just got back online and needs to read up22:16
yofelyou can still make the upgrade to mentioned work, but it's neither tested nor supported22:16
* sgclark totally forgot about 14.1022:16
yofels/to/you22:16
valoriewell, we have Kubuntu funds if they refuse us22:16
ahoneybunso I might be able to use the left over money from akademy for sticker22:16
ahoneybunas they are cheapers then shirts22:17
geniijussi needs to start selling more shirts and anything else22:18
sgclark!testers22:20
ubottutesters is Help is needed in #kubuntu-devel. Please ping Riddell, yofel, soee, Tm_T, shadeslayer, BluesKaj, James147, Quintasan, lordievader, shrini, tester56, parad1se, mamarley, alket, SourBlues, sgclark, neo31, vip for information22:20
sgclarkneed vivid applications 15.04.1 tested22:21
ahoneybunlots of people22:21
sgclarkhmm what else needs backport22:21
KDDAarron, have a photo of the stickers I could see?22:21
Etriaphsgclark: Send me PPA22:21
sgclarkhttps://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/next-stage222:22
EtriaphUh, 'DON'T USE' ? :D22:22
sgclarkoh22:22
sgclarkyeah it is testing22:23
sgclarkbut wait a few22:23
sgclarkseems some stragglers building22:23
sgclarka vm is good to test in if you are not brave :)22:23
EtriaphI'm brave.22:24
EtriaphI've had 0 problems with 15.04 really, I could use some temporary chaos.22:24
Etriaphsgclark: Lemme know when it's reasonably safe to update and I'll give it a shot.22:26
* ahoneybun has a few crazy problems22:26
sgclarkEtriaph: thank you, sorry I jumped the gun, alot going on at once.22:26
Etriaphsgclark: It's all good, I'm here every day from about 2PM - 3AM EST :D22:27
ahoneybunoh right me and Etriaph are in the same TZ22:27
EtriaphWhere are you located ahoneybun?22:28
ahoneybunFlorida22:28
murthyDone reading the blog. Thank you scott for the blog.22:29
KDDAsgclark: how would I import a private key from another user account into Kmail?22:39
detroutHi. Is launchpad supposed to look in a ppa to satisfy build dependencies? (and if not is there a way to get it to?)22:43
detrout(or alternatively does anyone know a kde-telepathy backport repository?)22:43
sgclarkdetrout: I just backported to vivid https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/next-stage2 but this is a purely testing PPA22:44
Etriaphsgclark: Is there any way I can watch the progress on the remaining builds?22:45
detroutI had a user ask for ktp with video support for trusty. I'm pretty sure it should work if I could get it to build with newer versions telepathy-qt and qt-gstreamer 22:46
sgclarklink in status?22:46
sgclarknot sure what you mean Etriaph22:46
sgclarkdetrout: ahh trusty, let me dig that up.22:47
detroutwoah... you're doing KDE stuff And you're in the same time zone as me?22:47
Etriaphsgclark: If I can keep an eye on what's remaining to be built (or is still building) I can add the PPA and update when it stops.22:47
sgclarkmy internet is being unkind and slow22:48
detrout(I'm in los angeles)22:48
sgclarkI am in Portland :) yeah crazy sleep hours I have22:48
detroutI'm just used to being 8 hours shifted from everyone on the debian kde team22:48
RiddellDetrout I'm going to la next week22:49
detroutreally?22:49
detroutwhat for?22:49
sgclarkdetrout: https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/backports/+packages I was going to work on 4.14.3 here in a bit.22:50
sgclarka lttile behind, too many hats haha22:50
RiddellDetrout to visit Disneyland I hope22:51
detroutooh!22:51
sgclarkEtriaph: should be able to see the builds in action here:  https://launchpad.net/~kubuntu-ppa/+archive/ubuntu/next-stage222:51
sgclarkoh fun Riddell!22:51
detroutMay you have lots of fun22:51
detroutwow sgclark you get a lot done.22:52
murthyRiddell: My full support to you as user and contributor to kubuntu22:52
sgclarkI am always busy lol22:52
ahoneybunRiddell: you have a hashtag now btw22:55
detroutthough, is there a way to get launchpad to look in a ppa to satisfy dependencies?22:58
mhall119KDDA: /join #canonical-sysadmin and ask them to check on your SSO account to figure out what's going on with the login loop22:58
KDDAmhall119: got it sorted in #lp22:59
detroute.g. in https://launchpad.net/~diane-trout/+archive/ubuntu/ktp-call-ui-gst1.0 ktp-common-internals wont build because it wants tp-qt 0.9.5, which isn't in trusty, but is in the ppa22:59
yofeldetrout: you can add another ppa as a dependency when you click on "edit dependencies" on the ppa front page22:59
KDDAIve been sent an encypted email, but having user account issues now#22:59
yofeluh wait, it will always look for packages in the same PPA22:59
RiddellAhoneybun ooh?23:00
mhall119KDDA: ahoneybun: also try http://packaging.ubuntu.com/ for packing guides23:00
ahoneybun#ISupportJonathan23:00
yofeldetrout: you telepathy-qt package was built for vivid, not trusty23:00
ahoneybunRiddell: http://imgur.com/LXYbxRH23:01
detroutahhh... 23:01
detroutthank you yofel!23:01
murthyI would like to express my views and register my protest here, it would be appropriate to be in #ubuntu, but I am never going there. 23:01
murthyI never knew Kubuntu community was a "sub-community" as I see Kubuntu as a OS and not as a plugin of Ubuntu.23:01
murthyWhen I see words like private and secret, I am thinking of ubuntuleaks.com 23:03
murthyCoc should be used as guideline and not as a redtape. I see that someone on cc has claimed to be deeply hurt, that needs to be addressed and this issue has to mediated openly by a neutral body. This cc action seems to be a knee jerk reaction to an individual's complaint.23:03
yofelwe are part of the ubuntu community, and an ubuntu flavor. Sub-community might not be the right word, but it's not exactly wrong either23:04
RiddellAhoneybun :) although a lot are about Nigerian politics23:04
ahoneybunlol23:04
yofelheh23:04
EtriaphThanks sgclark23:05
* ahoneybun kinda started a trend23:05
RiddellYous can call me Goodluck Jonathan23:05
murthyyofel: so why kubuntu instead of kde ubuntu?23:06
RiddellBlame Jeff Waugh for the name23:06
* genii ponders Kubian23:06
* KDDA like Kubian23:07
EtriaphUbuntu Plasma23:07
yofel... the hottest flavor ever23:08
valoriemurthy: but we are part of ubuntu23:09
valorienot just KDE23:09
valorieit is the perfect marriage23:09
valorieor has been, until now23:09
KDDAnot so perfect :/23:10
valoriewell, every marriage has its ups and downs23:10
murthyvalorie: ya that doesnt mean we are a "sub-community"23:10
valoriewe're not scampering yet23:10
valorieok, that was insulting, it's true23:11
valoriebut whatever23:11
KDDAcan someone help me upload my digikam build/packages?23:11
valoriewe just need to lower the heat, and shed light23:11
murthyvalorie: Imo I am not sure we have the same ubuntu here where you guys started23:11
valorierather than the opposite23:11
valorieeh, everything changes23:11
valoriethat's what life is23:12
=== aaron is now known as Guest25588
valoriewe all gotta be like Jon and get in the canoe and ride the waves23:12
murthyvalorie: Its not just the code, I mean the vision 23:12
KDDAvalorie: sometimes its not worth riding the waves when you are heading into the rocks23:13
ScottKmurthy: Ubuntu is a FOSS project, a Linux distribution, and a desktop. Kubuntu is definitely part of the Ubuntu project/community. 23:14
murthyScottK: Ya i agree, but not in the manner in which they state23:14
ScottKThe problem is Ubuntu is an overloaded terms.23:14
murthyya23:15
valoriemurthy: yes, the community to me is the key part23:16
valoriegood software is just a good tool23:16
murthyScottK: I thank you for being direct about kubuntu and riddell and I am sure they are the feelings of the kubuntu community23:16
ScottKPart of the problem is that what SABDFL says goes. 23:16
valorieKDDA: skillfull riders use the rocks to create adventure23:16
ScottKThanks23:16
KDDALOL23:17
ScottKSo one can't really know what the rules are. 23:17
=== Guest25588 is now known as ahoneybun
murthyvalorie: not just a tool, if i had thought so I wouldn't be here and I wouldn't have spent the time I had spend for the communty23:19
valorieright!23:21
valorieand thank you for your contributions, murthy23:21
valoriekubuntu has heart, which is why I'm here too23:21
Etriaphk, gonna run with next-stage2 and see what happens, wish me luck folks.23:22
murthyvalorie: :) my hugs to you23:22
KDDAbut you guys are the heart23:25
valorie{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}} to murthy23:28
valoriefrom me, and from the Council23:28
valoriewe are here for y'all23:28
valorieand we hope, long-term23:28
EtriaphHmm.23:30
valoriehow did it go, Etriaph?23:33
EtriaphUh, there's an issue with dolphin, just trying to sort it out now.  It's stable, there's just a strange bug.23:33
Etriaphhttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1422687/dolphin_strange.png23:37
EtriaphWould that be packaging or bko?23:38
EtriaphI did not add all those entries, fyi, I removed dolphin's config files in various locations and started fresh.23:40
valoriehuh23:43
valoriealways good to file on launchpad, no matter what23:43
valoriefile on bko if you find out it isn't packaging23:43
valoriethat way the fix can be linked to on launchpad as well23:44
EtriaphAnd this after adding some places in Kate: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1422687/dolphin_strange_after_adding_places_in_kate.png23:45
valorieuber-funky23:49

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