[06:18] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[06:56] <MooDoo> morning all
[06:59] <brobostigon> morning MooDoo
[06:59] <bashrc> morning
[07:00] <brobostigon> morning bashrc
[07:46] <selinuxium> morning o/
[07:47] <MooDoo> hello selinuxium
[08:42] <daftykins> huzzah! Amazon FireTV stick arrived
[08:42] <daftykins> already enabled adb and pushing Kodi onto it \o/
[09:13] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Lindy Hop Day! 😃
[09:15] <SuperMatt> Ah yes, it is
[09:16] <SuperMatt> and as a semi pro lindy hopper, I can talk all about it :D
[09:16] <SuperMatt> Today we celebrate Frankie Manning's birthday - the guy who brought Lindy Hop to the world
[09:16] <daftykins> what even is it o0
[09:16] <SuperMatt> oh, I can point you to a video of my doing the lindy hop on the paul o'grady show
[09:17] <SuperMatt> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3KESRFkidM
[09:17] <SuperMatt> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeUmn5ZIA-c
[09:17] <daftykins> you personally on TV? :)
[09:17] <SuperMatt> the second video is about as fast as it gets
[09:17] <SuperMatt> me personally on tv
[09:18] <MartijnVdS> which one are you?
[09:18] <daftykins> ^
[09:18] <SuperMatt> far left
[09:19] <MartijnVdS> the one with the glasses?
[09:19] <SuperMatt> yup
[09:21] <daftykins> neat :D
[09:21] <zmoylan-pi> i thought the first rule of lindy club was not to talk about lindy club??
[09:22] <JamesTait> Brilliant, SuperMatt!
[09:22] <SuperMatt> thank you
[09:23] <davmor2> JamesTait: 1 2 3 O'clock 4 O'clock ROCK!
[09:23] <SuperMatt> I can be found dancing with my girlfriend/dance partner on many an occasion around London, and sometimes around the country. If you want to see more, just let me know
[09:23] <SuperMatt> or if you want to learn
[09:24] <zmoylan-pi> #LinuxLindyMeetup :-)
[09:25] <SuperMatt> hah!
[09:25] <SuperMatt> you make it sound implausible, but as many lindy ladies will attest, most of the guys they meet are geeks
[09:25] <SuperMatt> without trying to be sexist, it's very uncommon for men to talk to men, and women to talk to women, through virtue of never being face to face for long enough
[09:26] <daftykins> now for the real question, were the ladies in wigs? :D
[09:26] <SuperMatt> yes, they were
[09:26]  * JamesTait feels he has adequately catalysed social intercourse this morning. ☺ 
[09:26] <SuperMatt> because they can be styled considerably faster when you're going out live/recorded as live
[09:26] <daftykins> =]
[09:30] <SuperMatt> This reminds me, I really need to update the Dance page of my site
[09:34] <ujjain> [2015-05-26 09:26:42,986] < what could this 986 number be?
[09:34] <daftykins> lines maybe?
[09:34] <directhex> context?
[09:39] <ujjain> Jetty logging, Java server.
[09:46] <intrbiz> ujjain: it'll be milliseconds probably, Log4J default time pattern is: HH:mm:ss,SSS
[09:46] <directhex> good catch, intrbiz
[09:51] <daftykins> comma makes more sense now
[09:52] <ujjain> ah, could be that yeah
[09:52] <ujjain> it's always less than 1000 yeah
[09:52] <intrbiz> ujjain: what is your logging config?
[09:53] <ujjain> I don't know, just was curious about the 3-characters after seconds
[10:04] <talv> hey guys how do you know how much swap space to allocate for a machine
[10:04] <talv> is there like a general rule of thumb?
[10:04] <Myrtti> depends on if you're using SSD or not
[10:05] <Myrtti> and how much RAM you've got
[10:05] <daftykins> if it's a laptop and you want to sleep or hibernate, it must match your RAM
[10:05] <zmoylan-pi> is it wasted if you make it bigger?
[10:05] <daftykins> no reason not to put swap on an SSD - i'd say if the above isn't true typically a max of 4GB really - depends what you do
[10:05] <talv> what about a server
[10:06] <zmoylan-pi>  /random question from curious watcher
[10:06] <daftykins> then it depends on what its' typical memory footprint is
[10:06] <daftykins> and what it'll be running
[10:06] <talv> i was always told to match the ram but that was a number of years ago wondered if things had changed since then
[10:06] <daftykins> yeah that stopping being true once we hit 4GB RAM
[10:07] <shauno> we used to say twice the ram.  but most users's machines have no shortage of ram anymore
[10:07] <daftykins> if you went to 8GB i'd say half, then no reason to go above 4GB really
[10:07] <talv> excellent thank you :D
[10:12] <BigRedS> If you're not suspending I don't really see the point in swap
[10:13] <BigRedS> ram is so cheap that it's best to make it the case that if you've run out of it then something's gone very wrong and so OOM killer kicking in doesn't add horrendously to your list of problems anyway
[10:15] <intrbiz> i see little point in swap these days, especially on servers, a server swapping heavily is usually a worse outcome than the process using the memory being killed
[10:16] <BigRedS> yeah, exactly
[10:16] <shauno> I treat swap like a gravel trap.  it's nice to have it so you know when you hit it & know to do something about it
[10:16] <intrbiz> but you need to think about the OOM Killer, set OOM ADJ on important stuff, and possibly vm.overcommit=2
[10:16] <daftykins> but then we've also had people come in here who allocated no swap and then they wonder why their entire DE freezes
[10:16] <shauno> instead of everything just going wrong
[10:18] <TwistedLucidity> ujjain: That's deffo millis. Max value is 999 and then it rolls over to the next second.
[10:19] <intrbiz> presumably millis can hit 1000 when the leap second happens
[10:20] <zmoylan-pi> or just show 000 a little longer? :-)
[10:20] <ujjain> right, makes sense
[10:21] <TwistedLucidity> Myrtti: What's the big deal about swap on a modern SSD?
[10:22] <daftykins> those that have read an article or two have latched onto the basic concept of "ZOMG minimise writes to your SSD!" but sadly it's spun out to the point where they all try to avoid even writing to them at all
[10:23] <Myrtti> TwistedLucidity: there would have been a followup question if it had been an SSD about what SSD it was, but as it wasn't...
[10:23] <TwistedLucidity> On *old* SSDs...yeah, might be a point there. And I am pretty sure you could kill an SSD if you were doing a bazillion minor writes for hours on end. But Average user with Average Use Case? Meh, no big.
[10:23] <Myrtti> anyway back to IKEA puzzles
[10:23] <Myrtti> (bookcase this time)
[10:25] <directhex> i am expecting an ikea delivery in 20 mins
[10:25] <directhex> full of exciting furniture
[10:25] <directhex> FSVO "exciting"
[10:26] <zmoylan-pi> all those years of airfix kits and lego is going to pay off :-D
[10:26] <Myrtti> I finally managed to unpack all my clothes into a wardrobe after living out of a suitcase and vacuum bags for years
[10:26] <Myrtti> it's an amazing feeling
[10:26] <Myrtti> with the new bookcase I might be able to unpack my books from the moving boxes. They've been in for over a year now
[10:27] <zmoylan-pi> then you'll just have an empty box crying out for more books
[10:29] <BigRedS> Haha, I've sort of got used to all my books being elsewhere and in boxes
[10:29] <BigRedS> I've sort-of accepted I don't really need them, but I'm a long way from deciding to actually stop owning them
[10:30] <zmoylan-pi> electronic books are just not the same
[10:31] <daftykins> it's really tough hitting Ctrl+F in a book i find
[10:31] <shauno> I'd feel pretty ripped off if they were the same
[10:31] <zmoylan-pi> i play d&d, we all have tablets with the pdf manuals.  we all have paper copies of the books as they are faster to flick through
[10:31] <BigRedS> no, but most of my books are non-fiction, so the stuff in them is generally way more accessible via google/wikipedia
[10:32] <BigRedS> but when you've a reference book I prefer paper to ctrl-Fing in a PDF reader or something. It falls open easily on the answers to questions I repeatedly forget
[10:33] <zmoylan-pi> it's been able to jump instantly in a paper copy between index and/or multiple pages that ebooks don't do well at
[10:33] <TwistedLucidity> E-books need away to let you flick to another section (e.g. character list, contents, whatever) and then flick back to wherever you were reading.
[10:33] <zmoylan-pi> ^this
[10:33]  * TwistedLucidity does not own an E-reader, but has to listen to the grumbles
[10:33] <TwistedLucidity> Like pop/pushd for the CLI
[10:33] <zmoylan-pi> they're better than nothing but i prefer a paper copy
[10:34] <shauno> horses for courses.
[10:34] <TwistedLucidity> The batteries of dead-tree tech last longer. But 1,000 dead-tree books is an arse to carry. :-)
[10:34] <TwistedLucidity> Also, leanding of e-books is hard/illegal. Paper is easy.
[10:35] <shauno> lending of e-books is easy, paper is difficult :)
[10:35] <BigRedS> ebooks get a lot of things wrong, too, especially when they're converted from dead-tree. Things like having all the maps or figures in a section at the front of the book
[10:35] <daftykins> with how people treat things they're loaned? hell no :D
[10:35] <zmoylan-pi> at the d&d sessions people carry 20 heavy hard back books with them because ereaders can't be as handy yet
[10:35] <TwistedLucidity> So yeah, you swap one set of problems for a different set. Pick whichever set is the least bother.
[10:35] <BigRedS> I'd like my kindle to have a 'show pertinent figure' button that I can always use to pop that up
[10:35] <daftykins> twenty!
[10:35] <zmoylan-pi> 20
[10:35] <TwistedLucidity> I want an e-reader that is mine after purchase and not Amazon's/Kobo's/etc
[10:36] <daftykins> i'm sure i had a Pratchett Discworld novel on Kindle that had links on *'s that jumped to and fro
[10:36] <zmoylan-pi> and only 1-2 will be used usually.  and the person who hosts the game also has those books
[10:36] <Myrtti> aby tablet will do that with an ebook reader app
[10:36] <zmoylan-pi> my discworld books has all the * at end of the book which ruins the flow of the comedy
[10:37] <daftykins> it was pretty annoying, how'd the print ones handle that?
[10:37] <zmoylan-pi> they were at the bottom of the page with the *
[10:39] <daftykins> ah i see
[10:40] <zmoylan-pi> the really long ones were at bottom of 2-3 pages. but always just there by the text to which they were relevent
[11:25] <shauno> anyone familiar with "DOSarrest" ?
[11:43] <Laney> bah
[11:45] <zmoylan-pi> humbug
[11:46] <Laney> just got a letter telling me my isa is going to pay 2.15% instead of 2.50%
[12:09] <knightwise> hey everyone
[12:11] <zmoylan-pi> o/
[12:11] <knightwise> hey zmoylan-pi how are you dude :)
[12:12] <zmoylan-pi> well, yourself?
[12:13] <knightwise> fighting Ubuntu 15.04 ,
[12:14] <knightwise> wont install anymore on my mac mini(neither will 14.04) keep getting the error i8042 no controller found
[12:14] <zmoylan-pi> which version of macmini
[12:15] <knightwise> erm I think a late 2013 model
[12:15] <knightwise> I7 , 16 gig , 256 SSD
[12:15] <MartijnVdS> I just bought one of those IKEA wireless (QI) chargers
[12:15] <knightwise> zmoylan-pi: according to a thread on the forums it does work if you burn it to a dvd
[12:15] <MartijnVdS> it works! :)
[12:18] <knightwise> MartijnVdS: i was thinking of getting one of those :) looks spiffy
[12:21]  * knightwise resorted to BURNING a DVD to install Ubuntu ...
[12:21] <knightwise> how primitive
[12:23] <zmoylan-pi> one day you'll show your kids what a dvd looks like and they'll be amazed that it held so little...
[12:23] <zmoylan-pi> only 4+gb...
[12:23] <knightwise> Wasting a Dual Layer dvd on this little stunt ..
[12:24] <knightwise> *harrumphs*
[12:25] <zmoylan-pi> could have found a cd based network installer? :-)
[12:25] <knightwise> zmoylan-pi: damn
[12:25] <knightwise> i didn't think about that.
[12:26] <awilkins> I just dd the ISO to a USB stick now
[12:26] <zmoylan-pi> i mean it's a cd... you'd expect to install from floppy next :-)
[12:26] <knightwise> anyway. I'll be giving elementary a try first . .if that doesnt work i'll pick 'vanalla" ubuntu
[12:26]  * awilkins wouldn't mind 'Valhalla' Ubuntu
[12:26] <knightwise> awilkins: thats just it , then i get the error code I8042 no controler found
[12:26] <knightwise> Ha
[12:27] <knightwise> wife is cleaning out her desk
[12:27] <knightwise> k
[12:27] <knightwise> just walked up to me with a zip drive
[12:27] <zmoylan-pi> 100 or 250mb?
[12:27] <knightwise> a zip DISK to be precise
[12:27] <knightwise> 100 mb
[12:28] <zmoylan-pi> i wish there was a medium like that still around.  even minidisc at 60mb would be useful for sneakernet and other tasks
[12:28] <knightwise> zmoylan-pi: erm .. thumbdrives ? ?
[12:28] <zmoylan-pi> thumb drives are often more bulky and not as slim as even zip disks
[12:29] <knightwise> Sometimes i think they are just too small
[12:29] <knightwise> and thats why we keep losing them
[12:29] <zmoylan-pi> you could stick floppies, cds and dvds in books and mags to transport store
[12:30] <zmoylan-pi> and thumbdrives have the whole 3rd time lucky plugging them in :-D
[12:46] <zmoylan-pi> though i do have a blurred pic around here somewhere of a zip disk that has been inserted into a zip drive backwards
[12:49] <popey> Morning
[12:51] <knightwise> Believe it or not .. but booting from the CD works
[12:53] <zmoylan-pi> the mac mini is so confused by the cd that it works \o/
[12:54] <knightwise> yep , i'm starting to think that that is the issue
[12:55] <Bunny_> hello
[12:56] <knightwise> hey Bunny_
[12:56] <Bunny_> hey
[12:57] <knightwise> Good thing I kept my Usb cd around when I redid my office
[12:58] <knightwise> zmoylan-pi: I loved the size of the 3.5 inch floppies :)
[13:06] <zmoylan-pi> it was designed to fit in a shirt pocket.  a really handy size that stored a lot for it's time.  something similar now with a few gb would be handy
[13:06] <zmoylan-pi> same size and shape even
[13:08] <shauno> like an oversized flash drive?
[13:08] <knightwise> did you know that the datadisks they used in star trek (original series) are the exact same size as a 3.5 inch floppy
[13:09] <zmoylan-pi> there's a size and shape that fits handily into the hand...
[13:10] <zmoylan-pi> i remember when some music studio thought of distributing music on memory cards... you'd need a tweezers and magnifying glass to handle your collection :-)
[13:10] <ujjain> how do I make the timestamp of a file old?
[13:10] <ujjain>  touch -t hello-this-is-an-old-file 200510071138 did not work
[13:10] <ujjain> hmm, other way around
[13:10] <ujjain> first number
[13:32] <zmoylan-pi> college switches to ubuntu 63% fewer problems... https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=es&tl=en&u=http://www.muylinux.com/2015/05/12/entrevista-migracion-ubuntu-colegio-fernando-lanero#Web0.001
[13:36] <knightwise> I"ve got a Dell xps13 on the wishlist for my company investments for this year
[13:36] <knightwise> gonna take the ubuntu version
[13:41] <knightwise> Hargh ! Poodoo !!! Now the ubuntu install won't even boot (black screen)
[14:55] <ali1234> does anyone know an easy way to search my conversations on reddit?
[14:56] <davmor2> ali1234: google?
[14:57] <ali1234> i want to find a specific comment that someone posted in reply to me
[14:58] <davmor2> ali1234: site:reddit.com <subject to search for>
[14:58] <ali1234> i don't remember the subject or what subreddit it was
[14:59] <ali1234> i do however remember the user who replied
[14:59] <ali1234> i need to search for all the times that person has replied to my comments, which is probably like 5 times in total
[14:59] <davmor2> ali1234: so search for the your nick and their nick maybe?
[15:03] <ali1234> nope, turns out we post in a lot of the same threads
[15:03] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[15:03] <ali1234> oh hang on i think i found it
[15:09] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: click your name, see all of your comments?
[15:09] <ali1234> i have thousands
[15:09] <ali1234> i found it anyway, it was from 2013
[15:10] <MartijnVdS> I have a 900-point response from yesterday somehow.. "Han shot first"
[15:10] <davmor2> ali1234: now favourite it if you need it now you may need it again :D
[15:10] <ali1234> how?
[15:10] <davmor2> ali1234: the star in the browser ;)
[15:11] <ali1234> oh you mean a bookmark
[15:11] <ali1234> stop using IE :)
[15:18] <davmor2> ali1234: it's a bit crap that you can't do it in reddit to be honest, but failing that you can just copy the permalink to somewhere you can access it
[15:19] <ali1234> you can actually, "saved" under a comment
[15:20] <ali1234> but i mean i didn't know i would need this post until i needed it 18 months later
[15:21] <davmor2> ali1234: that's normally what happens
[15:49] <intrbiz> bigcalm: morning
[15:54] <bigcalm> o/
[15:55] <bigcalm> I want to stay late and get the network switch set-up. Annoyingly I have to leave early today instead
[15:55] <bigcalm> Not at all a workaholic, am I?
[15:56] <intrbiz> hehe
[15:56] <intrbiz> i can understand wanting to scratch an itch
[15:56] <bashrc_> yes
[15:57] <bigcalm> If openvpn works on Mac and Windows (as well as Linux), then I'm going to use it in the office here
[15:57] <intrbiz> openvpn rocks
[15:57] <bigcalm> I thought you might like that
[15:58] <intrbiz> i use openvpn alot, got quite a few terminated and setup here
[15:59] <bigcalm> Thinking that we'll have ipsec site to site for a couple of clients and then openvpn for coworkers to log into the office network
[15:59] <intrbiz> yeh
[16:03] <bigcalm> Can I use virtual nics on a server or do I have to have physical nics and separate network cables?
[16:03] <intrbiz> bigcalm: what for?
[16:03] <bigcalm> VPN termination
[16:03] <bigcalm> I think I may have confused myself at some point
[16:04] <intrbiz> most VPNs present as tun (or tap) interfaces
[16:04] <intrbiz> which you can route and firewall between
[16:06] <bigcalm> The managed switch should then allow me to set-up static routes. So that workstations in the office can connect to remote servers without each having to have static routes rules added
[16:06] <intrbiz> bigcalm: if it's a L2 managed switch it'll have no concept of routing
[16:08] <bigcalm> intrbiz: I'm sure I saw static routing in the web interface when I had it running at home
[16:10] <bigcalm> Only information available about the switch http://www.buycom108.com/PDF/MSW-2402T_ds_english.pdf
[16:10] <bigcalm> That said, there is help information within the web interface. Handy
[16:12] <intrbiz> bigcalm: I suspect the routes will be purely for the admin interface, unless you can define IP interfaces on the switch etc
[16:14]  * bigcalm resists the urge to mess with the switch while other people in the office still require a network connection
[16:14] <intrbiz> hehe
[16:21] <bigcalm> :|
[16:24] <intrbiz> ?
[16:26] <bigcalm> w/w
[18:20] <diddledan_> animé ftw. even if it is windows. http://nichegamer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/windows-10-05-25-15-1.png
[18:24] <daftykins> diddledan_: what's the date for?
[18:24] <diddledan_> not sure
[18:25] <daftykins> ah
[18:26] <daftykins> i'm a bit too excited for 10 now, i need to relax and wait for a couple of months before inflicting it upon people i think :>
[18:26] <diddledan_> lol
[18:26] <daftykins> obviously won't be a standard 'SP1'
[18:38] <diddledan_> for towel day yesterday: https://www.facebook.com/ESASamanthaCristoforetti/videos/vb.326719157533529/389673374571440/?type=2&theater
[18:42] <daftykins> i.. is she a scot 0o
[18:42] <diddledan_> lol
[18:43] <diddledan_> italian
[18:45] <daftykins> wow.
[20:36] <knightwise> yo peeps
[21:40] <marshmn> for driving an external display from a laptop, am I likely to have better luck with display port or HDMI?
[21:41] <marshmn> laptop has Intel HD on board, and Nvidia 750M discrete
[21:41] <marshmn> I assume that the display port and HDMI are linked to the Nvidia? (just an assumption on my part)
[21:48] <daftykins> you'll need to check it directly, i know nvidia's settings control panel shows me what mine are attached via in Windows
[21:48] <daftykins> i don't think you'll see much difference in support between the two connection types
[21:49] <daftykins> marshmn: do you know what resolution panel you intend to connect?
[21:56] <marshmn> daftykins: no, not really - nothing really hi res - it's just for the occasional need to connect to an external projector or something like that
[21:56] <marshmn> so probably something like 1080p at most
[21:56] <marshmn> I wasn't sure if Linux supported one better than the other that's all really
[21:57] <marshmn> I guess I'll have a play
[21:57] <daftykins> oh so hot plug
[21:58] <marshmn> yes
[21:58] <marshmn> does that make a difference?
[21:58] <daftykins> i've seen people have the odd quirk, but if you're on a new release you might be ok
[21:58] <marshmn> ok
[21:58] <marshmn> and still no preference between the two?
[21:59] <daftykins> nope i don't think so
[21:59] <marshmn> ok, thanks
[23:49] <Azelphur> Hmm, anyone here familiar with Motion? I'm wanting to set it up so that it does motion detection, but only when I'm not home.
[23:49] <Azelphur> I can detect if I'm home easy (if my phone is connected to the lan) the question is how to incorporate that into motion somehow.