[08:28] <Nothing_Much> There be some drama happening!
[08:29] <Nothing_Much> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/05/kubuntu-project-lead-asked-to-step-down-by-ubuntu-community-council What's this about?
[11:19] <ahoneybun> sercet meeting and such Nothing_Much
[11:20] <Nothing_Much> ahoneybun, damned if anybody does and damned if anybody doesn't
[11:20] <Nothing_Much> it's that and humans are humans
[11:20] <Nothing_Much> uwiywq8 sleep
[11:22] <ahoneybun> its all over social media and such
[11:25] <ahoneybun> #ISupportJonathan
[13:18] <mhall119> ahoneybun: every time the CC has had to deal with an individual's behavior, those discussions were done in private
[13:19] <mhall119> it's not nice to air a list of grievances against somebody in public
[18:31] <ahoneybun> mhall119: I agree with that but the min that the option to make someone step down it should have been taken to the community and council
[18:31] <ahoneybun> if they are in Leadership roles
[18:33] <mhall119> ahoneybun: we did go to the KC as soon as we reached that decision
[18:34] <mhall119> ahoneybun: as I said in the Kubuntu meeting, we never considered it the Kubuntu Council's responsibility to police one of their members, so they were not asked to intervene
[18:35] <mhall119> in hind sight, maybe they could have talked him down from the ledge, or maybe that would have just turned him against them as well, I don't know
[18:35] <ahoneybun> the original email was only riddell
[18:35] <mhall119> ahoneybun: Riddell and the KC were both sent similar emails at the same time
[18:36] <ahoneybun> mhall119: I'm trying to hear both sides as best I can. but it is hard as I'm hugely biased sadly
[18:37] <ahoneybun> they only posted the email that riddell got as I did not get a email sent to the KC
[18:37] <ahoneybun> I've never seen the email
[18:37] <mhall119> ahoneybun: understandable, as long as you keep in mine that (A) we're all human and (B) we all care about Ubuntu as a whole
[18:37] <ahoneybun> not on the KC anyway
[18:38] <ahoneybun> I would like to think the CC think that way but I'm worried that Mark does not (from the flavors stand point)
[18:39] <mhall119> ahoneybun: he's probably spent several million dollars of his personal money on flavors at this point
[18:39] <mhall119> somthing to keep in mind
[18:40] <ahoneybun> I'm looking beyond his checkbook
[18:40] <ahoneybun> money does not equal love or care
[18:40] <mhall119> true, but people don't tend to spend money on things they don't care about, especially not that much of it
[18:40] <ahoneybun> and that was way before Phone, Snappy, OpenStack
[18:40] <ahoneybun> he has much more important stuff that focus on core Ubuntu
[18:40] <ahoneybun> not flavors
[18:41] <mhall119> ahoneybun: and yet he's still committed to supporting those flavors, even bringing in new ones
[18:41] <mhall119> even though MATE isn't going to help us sell phones or servers
[18:42] <ahoneybun> true
[18:42] <ahoneybun> mhall119: this is what I would have done, 
[18:42] <ahoneybun> 1. Talk to Riddell (which I'm more then sure you did)
[18:43] <mhall119> yup
[18:43] <ahoneybun> 2. if the CC is all voting towards taking him off email the KC to discuss
[18:43] <ahoneybun> and have it out
[18:43] <ahoneybun> I'm sure the KC and Community will go his side (which is what is happening)
[18:44] <ahoneybun> but include emails and logs (which can be provided and not *private*) in that email to the KC ML, -devel ML, and -users ML
[18:45] <mhall119> ahoneybun: we're still talking about how to procede, there is still a lot of misgivings over making private communication public
[18:46] <ahoneybun> most of the talk in the channels with Kubuntu seem not to say that Riddell has not done this, no it is that you did not logs
[18:46] <ahoneybun> I'm sure there was lots of talk on ubuntu-meeting which is public already
[18:46] <mhall119> ahoneybun: there was some, but the majority was in private email
[18:46] <ahoneybun> someone sent me a list of ML archives but there are like 15-20 posts
[18:47] <ahoneybun> which is a ton to go over
[18:47] <mhall119> ahoneybun: that's the short list
[18:47] <ahoneybun> mhall119: but the CC should have gotten these emails available to be public LONG before the email to step down was sent
[18:51] <mhall119> ahoneybun: and make a list of public accusations against somebody we only wanted to step down temporarily? Everything that's been made public now is permanent, any future employer or partner that googles his name is going to find this, that's never what we wanted to happen
[18:52] <ahoneybun> but you sent it like we don't deserve the whole story
[18:52] <ahoneybun> it was going to be public no matter how you handled it
[18:52] <ahoneybun> things go fast on the internet and social media
[18:54] <mhall119> ahoneybun: we wanted to give the whole story to the KC, we didn't want to ruin somebody in public
[18:54] <ahoneybun> I understand that
[18:55] <ahoneybun> and thank you for that
[18:55] <ahoneybun> as it stands I'm with Jonathan till I see hard evience against him
[18:55] <ahoneybun> and I'll try to turn off my biased side and look at the facts
[19:09] <ahoneybun> I want to keep the bridge open between us mhall119, but I have to go atm
[19:10] <mhall119> ahoneybun: my door is always open, to you and anybody else who wants to talk
[19:10] <ahoneybun> thank you mhall119 for that
[19:11] <ahoneybun> bbl
[19:43] <ahoneybun> though I believe all this is out of the hands of the CC now that Mark has spoken right mhall119?
[20:49] <mhall119> ahoneybun: Mark is part of the CC, he spoke in support of our decision, but wasn't the one who made it
[20:53] <ahoneybun> I see
[20:57] <ahoneybun> mhall119: would you say the CC have not changed their minds about their decision?
[20:57] <mhall119> ahoneybun: we have not, and nothing has been presented to us to make us feel differently than we did before
[20:59] <ahoneybun> ok