[00:05] <wxl> gsilvapt: so you want to try to make connections with the lxle folks? :)
[00:07] <gsilvapt> We can try, since having their contributors working with us might be a plus, right?
[00:07] <gsilvapt> Hopefully they will not get us wrong
[00:07] <gsilvapt> I'm a bit in shock after reading this https://skitterman.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/information-exchange-between-the-ubuntu-community-council-and-the-kubuntu-council/
[00:07] <wxl> yeah well i can't imagine they're not pushing their changes upstream but who knows
[00:07] <wxl> are you?
[00:07] <gsilvapt> In a way, yes
[00:07] <wxl> i have the perspective that it's poor behavior on everyone's part
[00:08] <gsilvapt> Doesn't make any sort of sense.
[00:09] <gsilvapt> From both parties, yeah, but still. They fired the guy because he was displeased with some decisions that were made. Doesn't make much sense, even here
[00:10] <wxl> well tl;dr jonathan is a very intelligent, wonderful, insightful guy that is unafraid of asking hard questions BUT he has a harsh personality that ultimately rubbed people the wrong way. they tried to simply remove him from the council so they wouldn't have to deal with him which is no big deal, but he naturally overreacted, to which everyone else overreacted to. it took people from outside the cc (like
[00:10] <wxl>  jono) to actually be reasonable
[00:10] <wxl> they didn't fire him, either
[00:10] <wxl> well
[00:10] <wxl> not this particular time around
[00:10] <gsilvapt> Anyway, talking about our businesses. Yes, we can try to reach them. I'm not sure if I should do it myself, since I'm the newest guy around and my english isn't perfect. Maybe we can ask belkinsa to prepare a message for them?
[00:10] <wxl> as i understand they did can his position about canonical
[00:11] <wxl> gsilvapt: i can do it myself if need be. but if belkinsa wants to do it, i'm game :)
[00:11] <gsilvapt> From what I read, you're right but they forced him to step down from the council. He rejected and even Mark has enforced the thought
[00:11] <gsilvapt> well, she hasn't been around lately. Not even sure if she's alright (maybe it is finals season for her)
[00:12] <ahoneybun> gsilvapt: I updated the Kubuntu Manual
[00:12] <gsilvapt> Nobody else replied back to your message, so I don't know
[00:12] <gsilvapt> hi, ahoneybun
[00:12] <ahoneybun> hello gsilvapt lol
[00:12] <ahoneybun> https://github.com/ahoneybun/kubuntu-manual
[00:12] <sgclark> boo
[00:12] <gsilvapt> that's cool :) new stuff?
[00:13] <gsilvapt> hi, sgclark
[00:13] <wxl> making him step down from the council is not firing him
[00:13] <wxl> and in fact there was much discussion that they couldn't and didn't want to stop him from contributing
[00:13] <sgclark> howdy
[00:13] <wxl> the way i see it they didn't want to HAVE to deal with his personality
[00:14] <gsilvapt> Yes, but that is not correct, is it?
[00:14] <wxl> i think jonathan is wonderful but even i must admit i see that he can be very abrasive
[00:14] <sgclark> ??
[00:14] <wxl> i dont' get very sensitive about such things but it's clear that people on the cc do
[00:14] <gsilvapt> If he is not aggressive (as he states, I don't even know the guy) it doesn't seem right to force contributors to step down from stuff
[00:14] <sgclark> gosh I have worked with him for years and never saw this evil twin..
[00:15] <wxl> and i think there's reasons for that, sgclark
[00:15] <gsilvapt> well, things escalated quickly ofc and maybe some are overreacting, maybe
[00:15] <wxl> they asked him to step down from his position on the council
[00:15] <wxl> that's it
[00:15] <wxl> frankly if i were him i'd have rejoiced
[00:15] <wxl> screw the title, i can get some stuff done now :)
[00:15] <sgclark> Besides. That is not the point. Kubuntu Council should have been informed to take action first. They were never given a chance to "deal" with it.
[00:15] <wxl> then i don't have to deal with these annoying conversations
[00:15] <gsilvapt> but I understand his stance. the guy says he has done a lot for Kubuntu. Forcing him to step down from something he build doesn't seem right
[00:15] <wxl> well that part is true sgclark
[00:16] <wxl> he is THE kubuntu guy
[00:16] <wxl> i mean, he IS kubuntu
[00:16] <gsilvapt> Yeap, it felt so. But as I said, I'm new around and I don't even know the guy so... :P
[00:16] <wxl> i look at the effect of their decision to be about as meaningful as phillw having his membership pulled
[00:16] <sgclark> indeed, but even so, it could have been dealt with much better than this. Don't you think I am one of the biggest affected? I poor my heart and soul into this.
[00:16] <wxl> he's still a contributor and a valuable part of our community
[00:16] <gsilvapt> I just don't like this sort of protected dictatorships. But alright, let's move on :)
[00:16] <wxl> the titles and crab don't even matter
[00:17] <wxl> like i said, i think it's an all around bad situation
[00:17] <wxl> everyone's kind of at fault to some degree or another
[00:18] <wxl> the most annoying thing is the lack of a consistent message across the cc
[00:18] <ahoneybun> gsilvapt: I have finished the pages and adding some new screenshots
[00:18] <wxl> some of them, i think, responded perfectly reasonable
[00:18] <ahoneybun> some too personal
[00:18] <wxl> while others seemed to just go on the defensive
[00:18] <gsilvapt> Well, wxl we'll take care of the mail thing tomorrow. I need to get some sleep (finally) today
[00:18] <wxl> absolutely
[00:18] <wxl> okie dokie gsilvapt
[00:18] <wxl> and in the end, i don't know how much i truly blame jonathan
[00:19] <wxl> i don't think he goes out of his way to hurt people
[00:19] <gsilvapt> If no one else replies to the message, I'll send an email to belkinsa to see if she's willing to write that message
[00:19] <wxl> okie dokie gsilvapt
[00:19] <gsilvapt> Sounds good, ahoneybun. When do you think you'll have it read? I'd like to read some bits of it :)
[00:19] <wxl> it's ok
[00:19] <wxl> rohan and i will be on the cc soon enough :)
[00:20] <gsilvapt> Well, see you all - Take care o/
[00:21] <sgclark> Well for me personally it has nothing to do with the drama, who did what to whom. It was how it was handled. period.
[00:22] <wxl> it does seem strange that they didn't reach out to leaders around him
[00:22] <wxl> unfortunately i don't know that i felt like that particular subject was broached in any of those mailing list posts
[00:23] <wxl> and that's the thing— i'm just an outsider to this whole thing
[00:23] <wxl> so undoubtably there are things that i don't see
[00:26] <Unit193> ^
[00:32] <ianorlyn> wxl I think desktop builds failed today haven't read backscroll yet
[00:57] <ianorlyn> ah I sort of wish I bookmarked the page with the build logs of the dailes because I need it but doens't happen that often
[23:30] <gsilvapt> wxl, I've emailed belkinsa to update her about the situation and ask if she can write the letter to send them later
[23:30] <gsilvapt> the LXLE situation*
[23:32] <wxl> thx gsilvapt
[23:39] <ahoneybun> hey guys
[23:48] <gsilvapt> hey, ahoneybun
[23:48] <ahoneybun> yay LP: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~aaronhoneycutt/+junk/kubuntu-manual-dev/view/head:/docs/advanced.rst