[05:45] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[05:47] <zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
[05:48] <brobostigon> morning zmoylan-pi
[05:50]  * knightwise greets the carbon based units infecting the internet !
[05:50]  * brobostigon puts on a borg voice, he is only parly carbon based.
[05:51] <brobostigon> partly*
[05:51] <knightwise> Half borg - half KFC ?
[05:51] <brobostigon> lolz v.2.3.1
[05:51]  * zmoylan-pi hands brobostigon a lozenge to help ease the borg voice
[05:51] <brobostigon> lolz v.2.3.1.1
[05:51] <brobostigon> thanks zmoylan-pi
[05:52] <zmoylan-pi> so anyone super excited by new android promises?
[05:52] <knightwise> I'll see when it gets actual devices downstream
[05:52] <brobostigon> which ones?
[05:53] <zmoylan-pi> ability to limit access to features in a device.  kinda like what symbian had a decade ago :-)
[05:53] <brobostigon> i have a nexus4, so i am probably screwed except for when it goes to CM.
[05:54] <brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: CM has had that for ages.
[05:54] <zmoylan-pi> though it seems you can't limit apps access to the internet for some reason
[05:54]  * brobostigon can, :)
[05:56]  * zmoylan-pi hugs my dumbphone... :-)
[05:56] <knightwise> zmoylan-pi: i've turned off most notifications on my smartphone . its amazing how smoothing it is
[05:57] <knightwise> soothing
[05:57] <zmoylan-pi> i deleted pinterest app as it started using notification area to tell me to update the flippin app
[05:58] <knightwise> God I hate the pinterest app.
[05:58] <knightwise> it keeps on mailing you on and on and on !
[05:58] <zmoylan-pi> i had it on android tablet still knocking around
[05:58] <brobostigon> thats where my pebble is handy, silent phone, genetle vibe on activity.
[05:59] <knightwise> brobostigon: same for me (has a moto360)
[05:59] <knightwise> mostly use it to tell my phone to buzz at the end of a meeting
[05:59] <brobostigon> cool :)
[05:59] <brobostigon> ah.
[05:59] <knightwise> for example : ok google , set a countdown timer for 60 minutes
[06:00] <brobostigon> android wear does look interesting however compared to my pebble, its still inferior in many ways.
[06:01] <brobostigon> sw and hw.
[06:02] <knightwise> I disagree on that, I love the voicecontrol it offers
[06:03] <zmoylan-pi> i'd hate to share an office with people using voice control...
[06:03] <brobostigon> there are useful things like that, however at a disadvantage when it comes to screen readability, battery life.
[06:04] <brobostigon> ease to program for.
[06:06] <knightwise> zmoylan-pi: i use it mostly on the road and in the car
[06:06] <knightwise> never in the office
[06:07] <zmoylan-pi> yes, but it's like speakerphones, we've all been in public spaces where someone insists on using one... just bad manners
[06:09] <knightwise> I use the 'secret agent' approach :) I only talk to my phone, i do it discretely :)
[06:12] <brobostigon> while holding your phone, stroking the screen in a deep sexy voice, "helllo phone, please call my wife."
[06:13] <brobostigon> if james bond had a phone, thats what he would do.
[06:13] <knightwise> Indeed he would
[06:13] <knightwise> na .. just a "ok google : Text nyana 'im on my way , eta 20 00)
[06:14] <knightwise> my wife has the gear 2 , if she is in a rush she answers her phone on her watch
[06:14] <knightwise> she can make phonecalls on that watch
[06:14] <knightwise> but she never does it in publix
[06:15] <brobostigon> :)
[06:16] <knightwise> I NEVER use speakerphone in public , that is just wrong
[06:20] <brobostigon> yep, you dont want half the planet to hear and listen in on your conversation.
[06:25] <knightwise> treu
[06:27] <brobostigon> :)
[07:19] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:19] <diddledan_> m00
[07:19] <diddledan_> morning
[07:25] <knightwise> ok .. nearly cooked the I7 Cpu on my mac mini there
[07:25] <knightwise> another nail in the coffin of running linux natively on unsupported hardware.
[07:53]  * popey squints back at Myrtti 
[07:54] <Myrtti> Facebook squint, that was
[07:57] <popey> :)
[07:57] <popey> I figured
[08:09]  * Laney stares into the abyss
[08:09] <Laney> jimmy wales is on desert island discs atm
[08:17] <bashrc_> good moaning
[08:17] <SuperMatt> morning
[08:17] <MooDoo> morning SuperMatt
[08:20] <knightwise> ok , ... my mac mini just went nearly chernobyl on my while running Elementary .. for some reason temp sensors and fans didn't kick in.
[08:20]  * knightwise *harg*
[08:20] <knightwise> thats it , im buying an xps13 with Ubuntu pre-installed
[08:20] <popey> hah
[08:20] <popey> I'm still pondering what to get :(
[08:23] <intrbiz> knightwise: XPS13 is a nice machine
[08:24] <Laney> knightwise: I ordered one of those on Wednesday
[08:24] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:25] <Laney> I heard that the shipped version of ubuntu has some bugs though, might need to upgrade if that's not fixed yet
[08:26] <SuperMatt> I liked the look of the new HPs which are coming to ebuyer with Ubuntu installed, but they only have Radeon cards D:
[08:27] <Laney> it was xps 13 or the x1 carbon for me
[08:32] <popey> yeah, those are the two at the top of my list
[08:32] <popey> but lack of touchpoint is a factor
[08:37] <Laney> everyone loves that
[08:37] <Laney> but I've never had it so nothing to miss for me :)
[08:40] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Learn About Composting Day! 😃
[08:43] <popey> adding this to wishlist http://www.amazon.co.uk/FURminator-Long-Hair-DeShedding-Large/dp/B004WJ0L3Q
[08:45] <TwistedLucidity> popey: Those type work quite well. As do the rubber mitts...I can look up what I bought if you like.
[08:45] <popey> thanks
[08:45] <TwistedLucidity> Ok, about to go on a call; will do after
[08:46] <popey> i just have a plastic brush, which the cats aren't particularly interested in
[08:47] <JamesTait> popey, they are excellent.
[08:47] <JamesTait> popey, we have a furminator for our cats, and it really helps.
[08:48] <popey> excellent
[08:49] <JamesTait> Plus it's sturdy enough to withstand being attacked if you catch them when they don't feel like it. 😉
[08:50]  * davmor2 feed JamesTait to the worms to see how well he composts :D
[08:52] <davmor2> popey: did you not instantly race out and buy one of those jml brushy scratch pads with catnip?
[08:52] <knightwise> Laney, which one did you order ? The HD version or the QHD ?
[08:53] <Laney> Q BABY
[08:53] <knightwise> Laney: Cool .. you sure ubunu won't have no scaling issues ?
[08:53] <Laney> find out when I get it :-)
[08:53] <TwistedLucidity> popey: We have a dog with the pretentions of a double coat (typical mutt). This works quite well: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001GJSEI4
[08:54] <JamesTait> davmor2, I had to put my foot down on that one - both boys wanted to get a couple.
[08:54] <popey> Laney: is that the touch screen one?
[08:54] <TwistedLucidity> popey: This also wroks well: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003UUC9UQ
[08:54] <Laney> sure is
[08:54] <popey> interesting
[08:55] <davmor2> JamesTait: I think you are missing the point of them, it's for cleaning cats not feet
[08:55] <popey> this could be worth doing and just not use an external display at all
[08:55] <Laney> knightwise: 1880 at ×2 scaling is going to be okay
[08:55] <TwistedLucidity> popey: This wasn't great on the mutt, but might trick a cat into thinking grooming is strokey time: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001BFDU32
[08:55] <popey> (I use an external display on my x220 because 1366x768 is too low)
[08:55] <Laney> I know the browsers were hidpi holdouts but not sure where they stand atm
[08:56] <popey> but with a larger res display on new laptop I'd be tempted to get rid of my external screen and just use the laptop like a laptop
[08:56] <TwistedLucidity> popey: Useless: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rosewood-Protection-Salon-Grooming-Slicker/dp/B003GPD51W
[08:56] <popey> heh
[08:57] <TwistedLucidity> popey: We have a brush like this (kinda like a Furinator-combo) it works great: http://www.amazon.co.uk/SMALL-DOGS-Functionality-Brilliantly-Accessories/dp/B00LEE3BTI
[08:58] <TwistedLucidity> Has the fine tooth side for getting out dead hair, and then a broad tooth for detangling/agitating the undercoat (which makes grooming easier)
[08:59] <TwistedLucidity> And there ends "Ubuntu Pet Corner" :-)
[08:59] <knightwise> Laney: i'm thinking of going for the Hd version. I love to work outside with it (its my mobile companion). Did you order the developer edition or just the windows version ?
[08:59] <Laney> knightwise: I got the one with 14.04 ...
[08:59] <Laney> what do you mean by the other one being better to work outside with?
[08:59] <Laney> because it'll have better battery life?
[09:00] <knightwise> Laney: better batt life AND a matt screen (non touch)
[09:00] <Laney> ah
[09:00] <Laney> I'm okay with gloss outside if the screen is bright enough
[09:00] <Laney> but I can probably count on my fingers the number of times I've used this one outside in the 5 years I've had it :)
[09:01] <knightwise> I will miss scrolling with touch .. I love that on my surface pro
[09:03] <knightwise> I was on the verge of ordering a surface pro 3 yesterday and just running ubuntu in a fullscreen vm ... (and run ubuntu natively on my mac mini) but .. at the end I think i'm better of just running ubuntu on supported hardware.
[09:05] <bashrc_> yes. Trying to run it in a vm on a legacy OS might not be a very good user experience
[09:11] <TwistedLucidity> bashrc_: So long as goodness like GPU passthrough is available; why would the VM give two stuffs about the host OS?
[09:12] <TwistedLucidity> Unless the host OS is Windows 95....
[09:15] <ne2k> I have bought an HP ProBook 455 G2 with Ubuntu pre-installed. It claimed it was going to come with 14.04, but it actually came with 12.04, which was a bit annoying. I have reinstalled with 14.04.2 desktop and I now need to find the extra drivers for trusty.
[09:18] <TwistedLucidity> ne2k: Go to 15.04. If you're going to take pain, may as well go for broke.
[09:18] <ne2k> before I blatted 12.04, I noticed that it had some repositories from HP (precise-stella-wanhua and precise-oem-sp1 and precise-oem-sp2). I'm trying to work out what the equivalent repositories are for trusty
[09:18] <TwistedLucidity> I'm finding 15.04 really nice, bar a few KDE glitches.
[09:19] <ne2k> I can't seem to find ANY documentation on where these names come from, what stella means, what wanhua means, anything
[09:19] <ne2k> is this a question for canonical, or for HP? the archives are hosted on hp.archive.ubuntu.com
[09:19] <TwistedLucidity> ne2k: Meh, I have a few repros that are still labelled "precise". Not had any issues
[09:20] <TwistedLucidity> ne2k: More a question for HP to be honest, it's their repo. If you can find the packages those repos provide, you can have a scout around.
[09:20] <TwistedLucidity> Also, the repos can be hit via a browser; see if "trusty" is is listed when you do.
[09:21] <ne2k> TwistedLucidity, I've done that. there are trusty-stella-* ones, but I don't even know what "stella" is. I'm looking for documentation on what this means
[09:21] <ne2k> and finding it... missing
[09:22] <TwistedLucidity> Looks like a Toshiba thing from an initial search
[09:22] <ne2k> interesting
[09:23] <ne2k> tbh, I just need a working rtl8723be wifi driver and the optimal fglrx
[09:23] <TwistedLucidity> stella-wanhua appears to be screen controls. Canoncial is listed as the maintainer
[09:23] <ne2k> TwistedLucidity, where are you finding this?
[09:23] <TwistedLucidity> "Description: A Brightness Workaround"
[09:23] <TwistedLucidity> ne2k: I'm just browsing the repo
[09:23] <ne2k> http://toshiba-buffalo.archive.canonical.com/dists/precise-stella-wanhua/public/binary-amd64/Packages
[09:24] <TwistedLucidity> Bingo :)
[09:25] <ne2k> so that's not particularly important
[09:25] <ne2k> so you think I could install the fglrx and rtlwifi packages from precise-oem-sp1 and it would be ok?
[09:26] <TwistedLucidity> ne2k: http://askubuntu.com/questions/457341/wifi-drops-and-wont-reconnect-until-reboot-14-04-with-rtl8723be#458518
[09:26] <TwistedLucidity> That appears to be a complete solution for WiFi
[09:26] <ne2k> TwistedLucidity, fwlps=0
[09:27] <TwistedLucidity> Aye, the commenter seems to have needed that.
[09:30] <TwistedLucidity> I can see "trusty-oem-sp" and "trusty-oem-sp1" exist; but without know exactly what packages are provided I couldn't really tell you if they are the Trust versions of the Precise ones you have
[09:31] <TwistedLucidity> I am sure someone with much more knowledge than me could help you more.
[09:34] <ne2k> there's nothing for rtlwifi in the trusty-oem* repos, though
[09:36] <ne2k> I think I need this http://hp.archive.canonical.com/pool/public/o/oem-wireless-rtlwifi-1367658-dkms/
[09:37] <knightwise> Laney: I just got the quote on the I5
[09:38] <knightwise> 1196, vat included
[09:51] <Laney> knightwise: quote?
[09:51] <Laney> I just got it from dell's website
[09:52] <knightwise> price-offer
[09:52] <Laney> is that EUR?
[09:54] <knightwise> yep
[10:01] <Laney> nod
[10:06] <eux> symfony
[10:07] <davmor2> friday fun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pidokakU4I
[10:13] <popey> Laney: typically i you phone dell up they negotiate if they think you won't buy
[10:20] <TwistedLucidity> non-Linux: Are small, clip-on LEDs a thing? Trying to find some for backpacks etc and failing.
[10:21] <ne2k> TwistedLucidity, I have contacted HP and they tell me that they don't support Ubuntu. despite the fact that they sell a computer with Ubuntu installed
[10:21] <TwistedLucidity> ne2k: How...odd.
[10:22] <ne2k> TwistedLucidity, well, the maintainer on those packages does say "canonical engineering" etc.
[10:23] <TwistedLucidity> ne2k: So what? The contract is between you and HP.
[10:23] <ne2k> what contract?
[10:23] <ne2k> TwistedLucidity, I bought the laptop from eBuyer, an online retailer
[10:23] <ne2k> but they are boxshifters, so I don't expect them to know technical answers. they told me to contact HP
[10:24] <TwistedLucidity> ne2k: Oh, in which case the contract is between you an eBuyer.
[10:24] <TwistedLucidity> Not that that helps you
[10:24] <ne2k> yes, and they have offered me a refund as the goods were not as sold. which is about as much as I would expect from them
[10:24] <TwistedLucidity> Did that askubuntu things not help with the WiFi issue? Seemed like a full solution when I looked.
[10:25] <TwistedLucidity> You may also find that 15.04 fixes issues too due to the newer kernel etc
[10:25] <popey> ne2k: got a link to the device you bought? I'll raise it with the people who made the build.
[10:26] <popey> TwistedLucidity: you can run the 15.04 kernel on 14.04
[10:27] <TwistedLucidity> popey: Aye, but it's so much easier to do "apt-get do-release-upgrade" IMHO.
[10:27] <ne2k> popey, ooh, thanks. it's this: http://h20566.www2.hp.com/portal/site/hpsc/public/psi/home/?sp4ts.oid=6943834
[10:27] <popey> not if you want long term support it's not
[10:27] <ne2k> release upgrade has only ever caused MAJOR, MAJOR problems for me, so I never do it
[10:27] <ne2k> I want the LTS release
[10:27] <popey> ne2k: got the ebuyer link?
[10:28] <TwistedLucidity> ne2k: It does cause me some issues, but then I have more PPAs installed that is strictly healthy....
[10:28] <ne2k> popey, http://www.ebuyer.com/705955-hp-455-quad-core-laptop-l8b56es
[10:28] <popey> thanks
[10:28] <ne2k> popey, are HP right that they didn't make the ubuntu build, that Ubuntu made it for them?
[10:29] <popey> ne2k: and this thing ships with 12.04?
[10:29] <ne2k> popey, well, the one I received yesterday did!
[10:29] <popey> ok
[10:29] <popey> thanks
[10:29] <ne2k> and the certification page http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201404-14968/ only lists 12.04.4
[10:32] <ne2k> popey, what's your connection to this process? I don't understand how the whole thing works
[10:32] <popey> Well the PPAs are run by our engineering services department
[10:32] <popey> they will have done some work to enable the hardware
[10:32] <ne2k> HP are denying all knowledge, saying they have no responsibility to support HP on the computer, but the computer came with an HP build of Ubuntu. so they are right?
[10:32] <popey> which maybe why it ships with those PPAs enabled
[10:33] <ne2k> popey, yes, indeed, but I thought HP had done that work. it was actually Canonical, then?
[10:33] <popey> right, I'm mailing internally to raise this and find out if there's a better number you can call
[10:33] <popey> we do that work
[10:33] <popey> usually :)
[10:33] <popey> it varies, sometimes we do most/all of it, sometimes it's in collaboration with people on their side
[10:33] <popey> but let me get clarification from someone internal for you.
[10:34] <ne2k> popey, so you work for canonical
[10:34] <popey> yes
[10:34] <ne2k> popey, can I PM you my e-mail address so you can keep me posted?
[10:34] <popey> sure
[10:34] <ne2k> or e-mail you?
[10:34] <MartijnVdS> I wish the Raspberry Pi/VC4 DRI driver was more finished :(
[10:34] <popey> sure, alan.pope@canonical.com
[10:35]  * TwistedLucidity imagines popey walking down the office with the "baseball bat of blame" :-)
[10:35] <popey> tricky when I work from home
[10:35] <ne2k> popey, cheers. what's your "title"?
[10:35] <popey> but yeah, i like that image
[10:35] <popey> community manager
[10:36] <ne2k> I have just apologized to the poor HP chat support operative for lambasting them
[10:36] <ne2k> lol
[10:36] <popey> haha
[10:36] <popey> how did you contact them? phone or website chat?
[10:36] <ne2k> web chat
[10:36] <popey> ok, ta
[10:39] <popey> ne2k: what's the output of "lsb_release -a" ?
[10:39] <ne2k> popey, I don't haev the machine in front of me atm
[10:40] <popey> ok
[10:40] <popey> no worries
[10:41] <popey> nice looking machine for the money though
[10:41] <popey> odd that it came with 12.04
[10:41] <ne2k> popey, especially with the £50 cashback
[10:42] <popey> nice
[10:42]  * popey considers lunch
[10:43]  * jpds too.
[10:43] <davmor2> popey: take a close look at the ebuyer descriptions, they list a 12 compute core then later it is 10, 14.04 and it's 12.04 the list kinda goes on like that :)
[10:45] <ne2k> davmor2, not that I can see
[10:46] <ne2k> popey, just e-mailed you, got it?
[10:47] <popey> yes
[10:47] <ne2k> popey, cheers. any vague idea of when I might expect an answer? not trying to rush you at all, I'd just like to know if possible
[10:48] <popey> dunno. will let you know as soon as I know
[10:48] <ne2k> popey, ok, cheers
[10:51] <Odd_Bloke> I had my eye on one of those laptops for my wife.
[10:51] <ne2k> Odd_Bloke, I've got a second 8GB stick arriving too, for a total of 16GB
[10:52] <Odd_Bloke> ne2k: How does it seem build-quality-wise?
[10:52] <ne2k> Odd_Bloke, pretty decent. it's quite thin. the keyboard has a very nice action
[10:53] <ne2k> it's kinda like a plastic copy of a macbook, if you like. the screen resolution seems very low for the size
[10:53] <popey> ne2k: really sorry you've had the experience.
[10:53] <ne2k> popey, well, it's hardly your fault, is it?!
[10:53] <Odd_Bloke> Ah, yeah, that's something I noticed when considering it.
[10:53] <ne2k> Odd_Bloke, no firewire, but then, what has?
[10:54] <ne2k> Odd_Bloke, no expresscard, but then, what has?
[10:54] <ne2k> ;-)
[10:54] <ne2k> Odd_Bloke, no comment on the battery life yet as I only received it yesterday
[10:54] <Odd_Bloke> I'm sure I could live with the absence. :p
[10:54] <ne2k> Odd_Bloke, the battery does seem strangely small, though. the seemingly sell larger ones that stick out a bit if you want
[10:54] <Odd_Bloke> Yeah, the battery does sound smallish.
[10:54] <ne2k> Odd_Bloke, it's your basic "business" laptop
[10:55] <Odd_Bloke> But my wife would have it plugged in most of the time anyway.
[10:55] <Odd_Bloke> So I'll let you and popey iron out the creases, then I'll get one. ;)
[10:58] <TwistedLucidity> ne2k: As was discussed yesterday, *everything* is Canonical's fault! :-P
[10:59] <ne2k> TwistedLucidity, haha
[10:59] <ne2k> I have to say that I am already quite impressed that someone from Canonical was actually here and actually offered to sort this out
[11:00] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: fun we all blame you, so does that mean everything is your fault?
[11:01] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: It usually is, but I stopped caring years ago!
[11:01] <davmor2> haha
[11:01] <ne2k> Odd_Bloke, I'll whack the solution on my blog https://atatdotdot.wordpress.com/ once I have it
[11:03] <ne2k> popey, Shengyao Xue <shengyao.xue@canonical.com> seems to do a lot of the stuff on this build
[11:04] <ne2k> popey, is there any documentation anywhere on how this whole system fits together? like, what is hp.archive.canonical.com? what is stella? what is stella-wanhua? what is wataugafour? if you search for these names, nothing comes up apart from the package repositories. there's no explanation
[11:05] <Odd_Bloke> ne2k: That is an amazing blog.
[11:05] <ne2k> Odd_Bloke, isn't it just?! ;-0)
[11:08] <popey> ne2k: basically any names you don't recognise are probably product code names
[11:08] <popey> used because we get hardware before its released
[11:08] <popey> so we don't reveal stuff that's under NDA
[11:09] <ne2k> popey, fair enough. can the installer image for 12.04 that was on the laptop be reacquired from somewhere?
[11:09] <ne2k> HP deny all knowledge of its existence
[11:09] <popey> I don't know. I'll ask
[11:09] <ne2k> despite having clearly been responsible for writing it to the disk before shipping it
[11:09] <popey> ooh, had a reply
[11:09] <popey> ne2k: are you happy for me to pass on your email address internally?
[11:09] <ne2k> sure
[11:09] <popey> ok
[11:10] <Laney> I bet it's an information not getting to the front line situation inside HP
[11:10] <popey> ya
[11:11] <davmor2> Laney: ah they don't need to know
[11:11] <popey> ne2k: ok, passed on your email and irc nickname. hope they can help.
[11:11] <davmor2> Laney: it's not like they deal with the customers.......wait a minute
[11:12] <TwistedLucidity> Probably because first-line will tend to follow a "Have you tried turning it off and on?" script. Second (or maybe third) line would have the chops and info to deal.
[11:13] <ne2k> TwistedLucidity, no, they sent me the link to the fglrx-*.tar installer. which I don't want, I want the proper repositories so it gets updated automagically.
[11:13] <TwistedLucidity> And this reminds me, I need to email Verbatim for some info (only way to get at the third line folks)
[11:14] <TwistedLucidity> ne2k: Oh right, there was at least /some/ info. More than I understood for before.
[11:18] <ne2k> anyone on surespot? I've created an account but have no friends. lol
[11:20] <TwistedLucidity> Never heard of it
[11:21] <davmor2> ditto
[11:21] <TwistedLucidity> Ah, like Telegram
[11:24] <davmor2> ne2k: ah you need to join telegram then, that where all the cool kids are :)
[11:26] <TwistedLucidity> SureSpot does multiple ids which I don't think Telegram does
[11:26] <TwistedLucidity> Neat
[12:09] <bashrc> doesn't telegram rely on proprietary servers, or is it like xmpp?
[12:14] <MartijnVdS> bashrc: their servers
[13:22] <ne2k> bashrc_, same with surespot, but the end-to-end comms are cryptographically secure
[13:22] <ne2k> supposedly