| wolfger | good morning | 10:08 |
|---|---|---|
| cmaloney | Good morning | 12:18 |
| cmaloney | I'm in training at the moment | 12:18 |
| cmaloney | having remote training == A+ | 12:19 |
| mrgoodcat | morning | 12:31 |
| mrgoodcat | anybody here have an ergo keyboard they're really happy with? | 12:47 |
| phwelo | gm. kinda cool that there's a MI linux channel on the network that i was already idling daily.. | 12:51 |
| mrgoodcat | well hello | 12:52 |
| phwelo | ..thinking that i'll probably join MUG as well since it takes place right behind the building i work at :) | 12:53 |
| mrgoodcat | They'd love to have you. I've been to a couple meetings but my school schedule rarely lets me get over there | 12:56 |
| phwelo | the topics look pretty beneficial. would have liked to have learned about it in time to attend the bind presentation | 12:57 |
| mrgoodcat | think that was last month right? | 12:58 |
| mrgoodcat | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NmklxfOnfo | 12:59 |
| mrgoodcat | and there you go | 12:59 |
| mrgoodcat | DNS in the Enterprise | 12:59 |
| phwelo | already subscribed and put it in my list ;) | 12:59 |
| phwelo | ty kindly though of course! | 13:00 |
| mrgoodcat | I don't attend but I try to watch the videos when i get time | 13:00 |
| phwelo | i'd never get approval to switch from windows DNS, but would love to get rid of my home windows server dns/dhcp. | 13:01 |
| mrgoodcat | home windows server? | 13:02 |
| mrgoodcat | what posessed you to set up a windows server at home? | 13:02 |
| cmaloney | mrgoodcat: You might want to wait until next week / next CHC. Rick has more experience with ergo keyboards | 13:06 |
| cmaloney | also I think greg-g uses ergo keyboards. | 13:06 |
| cmaloney | I personally can't stand them. | 13:06 |
| cmaloney | phwelo: We're always looking for new members / talks. :) | 13:07 |
| cmaloney | he nice thing is we meet every month | 13:07 |
| phwelo | i began my career as a windows admin, but have been moving more and more toward linux as time passes. at this point i'm fairly unhappy with microsoft's server offering altogether | 13:07 |
| cmaloney | the fun part is we meet every month and need content. :) | 13:07 |
| cmaloney | Cool! | 13:07 |
| cmaloney | Yeah, I've been pleased with Linux as a server (and as a desktop. ;)) | 13:08 |
| mrgoodcat | we have a windows domain controller at work | 13:08 |
| mrgoodcat | its about the only thing i use windows for by choice | 13:08 |
| phwelo | i really prefer it as a server offering. honestly i still go back and forth on my laptop. right now i'm doing the XFCE thing and it's decent | 13:08 |
| cmaloney | Yeah, we're doing the same thing with Linux / Samba at work | 13:08 |
| cmaloney | phwelo: That's cool. I"m using Unity, but I've always been partial to the Mac. | 13:09 |
| cmaloney | phwelo: Did you join the Meetup group for MUG? | 13:09 |
| mrgoodcat | I like unity | 13:09 |
| phwelo | cmaloney: i agree. i can't figure out this hackintosh business on my current computer though and my macbook has gone senile | 13:09 |
| mrgoodcat | but i use i3 right now | 13:09 |
| cmaloney | mrgoodcat: I wish I could use a tiling window manager without wanting to hurt myself. | 13:10 |
| cmaloney | closest I've come is using tmux | 13:10 |
| phwelo | cmaloney: i haven't signed up for anything yet, the page seems to still show the previous meeting (if that's even what you're referring to) | 13:11 |
| phwelo | also tmux4lyfe | 13:11 |
| cmaloney | http://www.meetup.com/Michigan-usr-group-Linux-Users-Group-in-Farmington-Hills/ | 13:11 |
| cmaloney | phwelo: Yeah, I've been slacking on getting hte next meeting notice out | 13:12 |
| mrgoodcat | cmaloney: what's the issue with tiling WMs? | 13:12 |
| cmaloney | The next meeting will cover Nagios, along with a discussion on how to preserve data for future generations | 13:12 |
| phwelo | is all of the content relating to debian-based linux or does it go whichever way the presenter chooses? | 13:12 |
| cmaloney | mrgoodcat: The issue is me. :) | 13:12 |
| mrgoodcat | lol | 13:12 |
| phwelo | cmaloney: nagios is one of the only topics i'm quite versed on, so maybe i'll come in handy right away! | 13:13 |
| cmaloney | phwelo: We cover mostly Linux these days, but we cover FreeBSD as well | 13:13 |
| cmaloney | phwelo: Awesome! | 13:13 |
| cmaloney | Anything UNIX is fair game. | 13:13 |
| phwelo | sorry, i meant RHL based vs Debian based | 13:13 |
| cmaloney | Right, I'm trying to say (obliquely) that we're more than just Ubuntu / Debian | 13:14 |
| cmaloney | or even just Linux | 13:14 |
| jrwren | if rhl v. debian is an issue, you need to step up your game :p | 13:14 |
| cmaloney | If Sun does something interesting then we'll cover it. | 13:14 |
| cmaloney | We also cover development as well as administation | 13:15 |
| cmaloney | I'm a developer with strong devops tendencies (Working with Ansible at the moment) | 13:15 |
| phwelo | sweet, looking forward. | 13:15 |
| jrwren | unless by RHL v. Debian you really mean ancient kernel v. newer kernel :p | 13:15 |
| jrwren | cmaloney: you know ansible?!?! cool, imma ask U stuffs | 13:16 |
| cmaloney | jrwren: I'm targeting CentOS right now. It's like I'm wearing bell-bottoms | 13:16 |
| cmaloney | jrwren: I'm just learning right now. ;) | 13:16 |
| phwelo | jrwren: yeah for debian i have package names memorized, i know the structure, i know where my configs live, etc etc etc | 13:16 |
| mrgoodcat | I did the LFS project once | 13:17 |
| jrwren | phwelo: ah, familiarity. What is that saying about familiarity? | 13:17 |
| phwelo | but i know that a lot of commercial entities use RHL | 13:17 |
| mrgoodcat | I haven't personally seen RHEL at a workplace yet | 13:18 |
| mrgoodcat | idk if i'm an edge case though | 13:18 |
| cmaloney | Yeah, I've only seen CentOS | 13:18 |
| mrgoodcat | i've seen cent and debian | 13:18 |
| cmaloney | but then again I work at places that are allergic to support contracts for OSes | 13:18 |
| mrgoodcat | and one place that used ubuntu servers | 13:18 |
| phwelo | true, mostly centos, i'm lumping debian/ubuntu and rhel/centos/fedora | 13:20 |
| cmaloney | We have some Ubuntu machines acting as servers. | 13:20 |
| cmaloney | Yeah, I'd regard RHEL as an anomaly. | 13:20 |
| phwelo | but i'm aiming for the west coast and see a huge trend of centos unfortunately | 13:20 |
| cmaloney | if I saw Oracle Linux in the wild I'd really freak out | 13:20 |
| phwelo | cmaloney: i've seen it in job postings recently! yuck | 13:21 |
| cmaloney | Oracle Linux? Yipes. | 13:21 |
| cmaloney | CentOS isn't bad by any stretch; just feels clunky to me compared with Debian | 13:22 |
| phwelo | but yeah my wife says i'd better make some friends so i'm going to multitask and socialize while learning stuff. glad to make you guys' acquaintance | 13:22 |
| cmaloney | And it's o-l-d. | 13:22 |
| cmaloney | Hey, we all started new. :) | 13:22 |
| phwelo | i always hit dependency issues that i can't use the package manager to meet, and it annoys the heck out of me | 13:23 |
| jrwren | ubuntu makes a great server os. | 13:23 |
| mrgoodcat | yea i like ubuntu server | 13:23 |
| jrwren | ubuntu-cloud-image is the most used OS in the cloud. | 13:23 |
| mrgoodcat | its what i use for my personal servers | 13:23 |
| jrwren | I was very surprised to see that Jono quote recently where he implied ubuntu desktop and debian server. | 13:23 |
| phwelo | what's different between the cloud-image and servers? | 13:23 |
| jrwren | phwelo: about 600MB :) | 13:24 |
| cmaloney | They're minimal images then? | 13:24 |
| jrwren | phwelo: cloud-image is about 400MB used deployed. 200MB compressed images. | 13:24 |
| phwelo | lol, isn't that like an 800m iso (server)? | 13:24 |
| * cmaloney doesn't know. :) | 13:24 | |
| jrwren | cmaloney: they are minimal with some special cloud stuff like cloud-init | 13:24 |
| cmaloney | Ah, OK. | 13:24 |
| phwelo | do they have orchestration of any sort built in? | 13:25 |
| cmaloney | I've been playing with LXC and wondered why CentOS didn't ship with things like Tar | 13:25 |
| cmaloney | so something tells me it's more about getting the image down in size than anything | 13:25 |
| cmaloney | phwelo: You just entered the Juju sales zone | 13:25 |
| cmaloney | jrwren works on Juju | 13:26 |
| cmaloney | smoser works on Ubuntu Server | 13:26 |
| phwelo | oh neat | 13:26 |
| jrwren | even still, juju isn't built into ubuntu cloud img | 13:26 |
| jrwren | so I'd answer "no" | 13:26 |
| jrwren | and that orchestration with puppet, chef or juju can be added trivially and others, likely trivially, but I don't nkow | 13:27 |
| jrwren | cmaloney: really? it doesn't have tar? | 13:27 |
| phwelo | that's kind of the benefit to that crowd, how easy it is to add them to a minion/target/whatever | 13:27 |
| phwelo | alright jrwren i'm going to bite, does juju do baremetal provisioning? | 13:28 |
| mrgoodcat | oh boy | 13:29 |
| mrgoodcat | juju is the best | 13:29 |
| jrwren | phwelo: yes, it does. | 13:29 |
| jrwren | phwelo: it uses a provider model. maas is one of the provider models | 13:30 |
| phwelo | strangely enough, there aren't a ton of options that do | 13:30 |
| jrwren | its cool doing bare betal deploys, the image install might take a bit longer, but once you are running, OMG it is so fast. | 13:31 |
| jrwren | its easy to forget how slow cloud instances are. | 13:31 |
| phwelo | what does it use for the pxe part, or is it built ground-up? | 13:31 |
| jrwren | small, medium, large, SOOO SLOW!!! | 13:31 |
| jrwren | phwelo: its all open source. you can go use maas yourself right now. | 13:32 |
| jrwren | phwelo: it is an automation of the debian/ubuntu network boot stuff that has always been there, with a nice web frontend | 13:32 |
| phwelo | total tangent, but does ubuntu have a presence in s/e mi? | 13:33 |
| jrwren | phwelo: you are in it. | 13:33 |
| cmaloney | jrwren: At least the image I am using with LXC doesn't have tar. I had to include it. | 13:34 |
| phwelo | ah man i need to suck up, my long term goal is to get the F out of the financial world and into a legit tech company (without losing an ungodly chunk of salary in the transition) | 13:34 |
| jrwren | cmaloney: did you use the lxc-download template and choose centos from the list? | 13:34 |
| jrwren | phwelo: financial world is pretty great from what I hear. | 13:34 |
| cmaloney | I did lxc-create -r centos --name foo -- R 6 | 13:35 |
| cmaloney | also: Legit tech companies are pretty scattershot. | 13:35 |
| cmaloney | some are awesome. Most are fair to good. | 13:35 |
| cmaloney | and some are pretty terrible. | 13:36 |
| phwelo | cmaloney: kind of like any business really i'm sure | 13:36 |
| cmaloney | Yep | 13:36 |
| cmaloney | I worked in the automotive industry for a long while. The corporate lines were pretty heavy into Microsoft. Fortunately I was able to carve out some Linux | 13:37 |
| cmaloney | depends on the manager and their willingness to buck the trend. | 13:37 |
| cmaloney | phwelo: Are you at Quicken Loans? | 13:37 |
| jrwren | oh right, that is financial. :) | 13:38 |
| phwelo | getting into a company who's developing tech serves a bunch of goals for me tho. i want to work around people who i can learn from, i want budget going into IT, I want a freaking test environment, I want to be able to sleep at night, and i want to never tell my children i work for a bank | 13:38 |
| phwelo | nah not quicken. though nearly half of the people you meet in metro detroit seem to work there! | 13:39 |
| cmaloney | phwelo: I can sympathize | 13:39 |
| cmaloney | I'm in marketing. :) | 13:39 |
| cmaloney | Though I'm in a company where the current management is exceptionally clueful about tech | 13:39 |
| cmaloney | at least as it relates to me | 13:40 |
| cmaloney | But yeah, getting an opportunity to work with folks who are making the stuff you use is awesome. | 13:40 |
| cmaloney | I worked at Sourceforge for a bit. Worked with the guy who maintains rsync. | 13:41 |
| cmaloney | and worked with mramm who maintained Turbogears for a while. | 13:41 |
| phwelo | idk turbogears, but rsync is a pretty big deal! | 13:42 |
| phwelo | can't wait til the kids are a little older and i can work on a project on the side :) | 13:42 |
| cmaloney | I can't say you won't be able to sleep at night though | 13:42 |
| cmaloney | s/won't/will/ | 13:42 |
| jrwren | phwelo: Shore Mortgage? | 13:43 |
| cmaloney | heh, we're going down the list. ;) | 13:44 |
| jrwren | more interested if we have any common aquaintences | 13:44 |
| cmaloney | Same | 13:44 |
| cmaloney | Only other one I can think of is the auto-financials. | 13:45 |
| jrwren | cmaloney: so that centos lxc template is kind of cool. it doesn't look to install based on an image at all. It creates a filesystem and installs packages. It is its own installer. | 13:45 |
| cmaloney | yeah, it's pretty strange / neat how it works | 13:45 |
| cmaloney | when it asked me to install alien I figured it was going into strange and wonderful worlds. | 13:45 |
| cmaloney | and it looks like it updates every image and doesn't cache. | 13:46 |
| cmaloney | or rather it caches and does the update each install | 13:46 |
| cmaloney | (somewhere in there is what I mean) | 13:46 |
| jrwren | http://stevekinney.github.io/face-theremin/ | 15:46 |
| cmaloney | http://helb.github.io/goodbye-sourceforge/ | 15:47 |
| cmaloney | jrwren: That's pretty awesome | 15:48 |
| phwelo | kinda interesting that all it took was one large project pointing it out, when they've been doing the same thing for a year or two without much noise | 16:16 |
| cmaloney | GIMP is the first project to make noise about it because it's the first project that was appropriated despite their objections | 16:39 |
| jrwren | yes, my understanding is that they did it often without notice, but would undo it if asked. | 16:41 |
| jrwren | now they aren't undoing it | 16:41 |
| phwelo | i'd imagine the first point to be enough to move your project | 16:42 |
| cmaloney | well, there's nuance | 16:42 |
| cmaloney | they have an ad-sponsored program for revenue sharing | 16:43 |
| cmaloney | via the downloaders | 16:43 |
| cmaloney | GIMP refused and abandoned the project | 16:43 |
| cmaloney | SF.net doesn't delete projects if they release files | 16:43 |
| cmaloney | so after 18 months of abandonment they picked up the project | 16:43 |
| cmaloney | where it gets douchey is they continued to mirror GIMP Windows packages and added the adware on top | 16:44 |
| cmaloney | (which is my understanding) | 16:44 |
| jrwren | seems close to a GPL violation. sad that it isn't. | 16:45 |
| cmaloney | It's not GPL since it's binary distro | 16:46 |
| cmaloney | the original project was binary distro | 16:46 |
| cmaloney | again, some nuance in there | 16:46 |
| jrwren | um... | 16:50 |
| jrwren | GPL specifically covers binary distro. | 16:50 |
| jrwren | its not a GPL violation because its an installer which install 2 things. GPL software and malware. | 16:51 |
| cmaloney | Yep | 16:52 |
| jrwren | if anyone wants to trade their email to enter a free chair contest: http://virl.io/FUGoMtmk | 17:35 |
| phwelo | that is one fugly chair, but sure why not | 17:38 |
| phwelo | wth is twitch? | 17:38 |
| wolfger | video streaming. Typically video games | 17:46 |
| phwelo | ah a coworker was telling me about this, how his kid will just sit and watch other people watch videogames for hours | 17:48 |
| phwelo | s/watch/play | 17:48 |
| ColonelPanic001 | god, that stuff | 18:04 |
| ColonelPanic001 | that sounds terribly boring | 18:04 |
| greg-g | I uh... did that once, but I was sitting in a dorm room watching my friend play the game in person, and only for like 30 minutes | 18:04 |
| ColonelPanic001 | it was college. he was experimenting. | 18:05 |
| greg-g | exactly | 18:05 |
| phwelo | is anyone in southfield? is it raining over there? | 18:14 |
| brousch | my son does it on youtube sometimes | 18:18 |
| brousch | mostly for the crazy comments from whoever is playing | 18:18 |
| cmaloney | phwelo: I'm around Royal Oak. It was raining hard for a bit | 18:19 |
| cmaloney | Seems to have let up | 18:20 |
| phwelo | hopefully it's not travelling my way. people drive poorly in the rain | 18:20 |
| brousch | off and on since lunch for me | 18:21 |
| wolfger | watching other people play video games is a thing now, I guess. "E-sports". I don't get it. | 18:42 |
| wolfger | but it's a real thing, with money and everything for the best players | 18:42 |
| greg-g | money doesn't make things real | 18:42 |
| greg-g | because money isn't real | 18:42 |
| greg-g | come on man | 18:42 |
| greg-g | :P | 18:42 |
| wolfger | friggin' hippie. You can't buy food with hugs. | 18:43 |
| wolfger | ...or I'd be fatter than I am. | 18:43 |
| jrwren | i watch people play video games for hours. I'm nuts about starcraft2 | 18:48 |
| jrwren | it has a larger economy than the NHL | 18:48 |
| phwelo | oh yeah, i saw something about an "e-games" player retiring at the ripe age of like 20 from repetitive something injury in his hands | 18:48 |
| jcastro | I watched the International on ESPN | 20:26 |
| jcastro | thinking it would be stupid | 20:26 |
| jcastro | but it was awesome | 20:26 |
| jrwren | i'm watching WCS right now. | 20:26 |
| jcastro | which one is that? | 20:26 |
| jcastro | DOTA isn't as fun to watch as counterstrike to me | 20:27 |
| jrwren | starcraft2 | 20:28 |
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