[10:08] good morning [12:18] Good morning [12:18] I'm in training at the moment [12:19] having remote training == A+ [12:31] morning [12:47] anybody here have an ergo keyboard they're really happy with? [12:51] gm. kinda cool that there's a MI linux channel on the network that i was already idling daily.. [12:52] well hello [12:53] ..thinking that i'll probably join MUG as well since it takes place right behind the building i work at :) [12:56] They'd love to have you. I've been to a couple meetings but my school schedule rarely lets me get over there [12:57] the topics look pretty beneficial. would have liked to have learned about it in time to attend the bind presentation [12:58] think that was last month right? [12:59] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NmklxfOnfo [12:59] and there you go [12:59] DNS in the Enterprise [12:59] already subscribed and put it in my list ;) [13:00] ty kindly though of course! [13:00] I don't attend but I try to watch the videos when i get time [13:01] i'd never get approval to switch from windows DNS, but would love to get rid of my home windows server dns/dhcp. [13:02] home windows server? [13:02] what posessed you to set up a windows server at home? [13:06] mrgoodcat: You might want to wait until next week / next CHC. Rick has more experience with ergo keyboards [13:06] also I think greg-g uses ergo keyboards. [13:06] I personally can't stand them. [13:07] phwelo: We're always looking for new members / talks. :) [13:07] he nice thing is we meet every month [13:07] i began my career as a windows admin, but have been moving more and more toward linux as time passes. at this point i'm fairly unhappy with microsoft's server offering altogether [13:07] the fun part is we meet every month and need content. :) [13:07] Cool! [13:08] Yeah, I've been pleased with Linux as a server (and as a desktop. ;)) [13:08] we have a windows domain controller at work [13:08] its about the only thing i use windows for by choice [13:08] i really prefer it as a server offering. honestly i still go back and forth on my laptop. right now i'm doing the XFCE thing and it's decent [13:08] Yeah, we're doing the same thing with Linux / Samba at work [13:09] phwelo: That's cool. I"m using Unity, but I've always been partial to the Mac. [13:09] phwelo: Did you join the Meetup group for MUG? [13:09] I like unity [13:09] cmaloney: i agree. i can't figure out this hackintosh business on my current computer though and my macbook has gone senile [13:09] but i use i3 right now [13:10] mrgoodcat: I wish I could use a tiling window manager without wanting to hurt myself. [13:10] closest I've come is using tmux [13:11] cmaloney: i haven't signed up for anything yet, the page seems to still show the previous meeting (if that's even what you're referring to) [13:11] also tmux4lyfe [13:11] http://www.meetup.com/Michigan-usr-group-Linux-Users-Group-in-Farmington-Hills/ [13:12] phwelo: Yeah, I've been slacking on getting hte next meeting notice out [13:12] cmaloney: what's the issue with tiling WMs? [13:12] The next meeting will cover Nagios, along with a discussion on how to preserve data for future generations [13:12] is all of the content relating to debian-based linux or does it go whichever way the presenter chooses? [13:12] mrgoodcat: The issue is me. :) [13:12] lol [13:13] cmaloney: nagios is one of the only topics i'm quite versed on, so maybe i'll come in handy right away! [13:13] phwelo: We cover mostly Linux these days, but we cover FreeBSD as well [13:13] phwelo: Awesome! [13:13] Anything UNIX is fair game. [13:13] sorry, i meant RHL based vs Debian based [13:14] Right, I'm trying to say (obliquely) that we're more than just Ubuntu / Debian [13:14] or even just Linux [13:14] if rhl v. debian is an issue, you need to step up your game :p [13:14] If Sun does something interesting then we'll cover it. [13:15] We also cover development as well as administation [13:15] I'm a developer with strong devops tendencies (Working with Ansible at the moment) [13:15] sweet, looking forward. [13:15] unless by RHL v. Debian you really mean ancient kernel v. newer kernel :p [13:16] cmaloney: you know ansible?!?! cool, imma ask U stuffs [13:16] jrwren: I'm targeting CentOS right now. It's like I'm wearing bell-bottoms [13:16] jrwren: I'm just learning right now. ;) [13:16] jrwren: yeah for debian i have package names memorized, i know the structure, i know where my configs live, etc etc etc [13:17] I did the LFS project once [13:17] phwelo: ah, familiarity. What is that saying about familiarity? [13:17] but i know that a lot of commercial entities use RHL [13:18] I haven't personally seen RHEL at a workplace yet [13:18] idk if i'm an edge case though [13:18] Yeah, I've only seen CentOS [13:18] i've seen cent and debian [13:18] but then again I work at places that are allergic to support contracts for OSes [13:18] and one place that used ubuntu servers [13:20] true, mostly centos, i'm lumping debian/ubuntu and rhel/centos/fedora [13:20] We have some Ubuntu machines acting as servers. [13:20] Yeah, I'd regard RHEL as an anomaly. [13:20] but i'm aiming for the west coast and see a huge trend of centos unfortunately [13:20] if I saw Oracle Linux in the wild I'd really freak out [13:21] cmaloney: i've seen it in job postings recently! yuck [13:21] Oracle Linux? Yipes. [13:22] CentOS isn't bad by any stretch; just feels clunky to me compared with Debian [13:22] but yeah my wife says i'd better make some friends so i'm going to multitask and socialize while learning stuff. glad to make you guys' acquaintance [13:22] And it's o-l-d. [13:22] Hey, we all started new. :) [13:23] i always hit dependency issues that i can't use the package manager to meet, and it annoys the heck out of me [13:23] ubuntu makes a great server os. [13:23] yea i like ubuntu server [13:23] ubuntu-cloud-image is the most used OS in the cloud. [13:23] its what i use for my personal servers [13:23] I was very surprised to see that Jono quote recently where he implied ubuntu desktop and debian server. [13:23] what's different between the cloud-image and servers? [13:24] phwelo: about 600MB :) [13:24] They're minimal images then? [13:24] phwelo: cloud-image is about 400MB used deployed. 200MB compressed images. [13:24] lol, isn't that like an 800m iso (server)? [13:24] * cmaloney doesn't know. :) [13:24] cmaloney: they are minimal with some special cloud stuff like cloud-init [13:24] Ah, OK. [13:25] do they have orchestration of any sort built in? [13:25] I've been playing with LXC and wondered why CentOS didn't ship with things like Tar [13:25] so something tells me it's more about getting the image down in size than anything [13:25] phwelo: You just entered the Juju sales zone [13:26] jrwren works on Juju [13:26] smoser works on Ubuntu Server [13:26] oh neat [13:26] even still, juju isn't built into ubuntu cloud img [13:26] so I'd answer "no" [13:27] and that orchestration with puppet, chef or juju can be added trivially and others, likely trivially, but I don't nkow [13:27] cmaloney: really? it doesn't have tar? [13:27] that's kind of the benefit to that crowd, how easy it is to add them to a minion/target/whatever [13:28] alright jrwren i'm going to bite, does juju do baremetal provisioning? [13:29] oh boy [13:29] juju is the best [13:29] phwelo: yes, it does. [13:30] phwelo: it uses a provider model. maas is one of the provider models [13:30] strangely enough, there aren't a ton of options that do [13:31] its cool doing bare betal deploys, the image install might take a bit longer, but once you are running, OMG it is so fast. [13:31] its easy to forget how slow cloud instances are. [13:31] what does it use for the pxe part, or is it built ground-up? [13:31] small, medium, large, SOOO SLOW!!! [13:32] phwelo: its all open source. you can go use maas yourself right now. [13:32] phwelo: it is an automation of the debian/ubuntu network boot stuff that has always been there, with a nice web frontend [13:33] total tangent, but does ubuntu have a presence in s/e mi? [13:33] phwelo: you are in it. [13:34] jrwren: At least the image I am using with LXC doesn't have tar. I had to include it. [13:34] ah man i need to suck up, my long term goal is to get the F out of the financial world and into a legit tech company (without losing an ungodly chunk of salary in the transition) [13:34] cmaloney: did you use the lxc-download template and choose centos from the list? [13:34] phwelo: financial world is pretty great from what I hear. [13:35] I did lxc-create -r centos --name foo -- R 6 [13:35] also: Legit tech companies are pretty scattershot. [13:35] some are awesome. Most are fair to good. [13:36] and some are pretty terrible. [13:36] cmaloney: kind of like any business really i'm sure [13:36] Yep [13:37] I worked in the automotive industry for a long while. The corporate lines were pretty heavy into Microsoft. Fortunately I was able to carve out some Linux [13:37] depends on the manager and their willingness to buck the trend. [13:37] phwelo: Are you at Quicken Loans? [13:38] oh right, that is financial. :) [13:38] getting into a company who's developing tech serves a bunch of goals for me tho. i want to work around people who i can learn from, i want budget going into IT, I want a freaking test environment, I want to be able to sleep at night, and i want to never tell my children i work for a bank [13:39] nah not quicken. though nearly half of the people you meet in metro detroit seem to work there! [13:39] phwelo: I can sympathize [13:39] I'm in marketing. :) [13:39] Though I'm in a company where the current management is exceptionally clueful about tech [13:40] at least as it relates to me [13:40] But yeah, getting an opportunity to work with folks who are making the stuff you use is awesome. [13:41] I worked at Sourceforge for a bit. Worked with the guy who maintains rsync. [13:41] and worked with mramm who maintained Turbogears for a while. [13:42] idk turbogears, but rsync is a pretty big deal! [13:42] can't wait til the kids are a little older and i can work on a project on the side :) [13:42] I can't say you won't be able to sleep at night though [13:42] s/won't/will/ [13:43] phwelo: Shore Mortgage? [13:44] heh, we're going down the list. ;) [13:44] more interested if we have any common aquaintences [13:44] Same [13:45] Only other one I can think of is the auto-financials. [13:45] cmaloney: so that centos lxc template is kind of cool. it doesn't look to install based on an image at all. It creates a filesystem and installs packages. It is its own installer. [13:45] yeah, it's pretty strange / neat how it works [13:45] when it asked me to install alien I figured it was going into strange and wonderful worlds. [13:46] and it looks like it updates every image and doesn't cache. [13:46] or rather it caches and does the update each install [13:46] (somewhere in there is what I mean) [15:46] http://stevekinney.github.io/face-theremin/ [15:47] http://helb.github.io/goodbye-sourceforge/ [15:48] jrwren: That's pretty awesome [16:16] kinda interesting that all it took was one large project pointing it out, when they've been doing the same thing for a year or two without much noise [16:39] GIMP is the first project to make noise about it because it's the first project that was appropriated despite their objections [16:41] yes, my understanding is that they did it often without notice, but would undo it if asked. [16:41] now they aren't undoing it [16:42] i'd imagine the first point to be enough to move your project [16:42] well, there's nuance [16:43] they have an ad-sponsored program for revenue sharing [16:43] via the downloaders [16:43] GIMP refused and abandoned the project [16:43] SF.net doesn't delete projects if they release files [16:43] so after 18 months of abandonment they picked up the project [16:44] where it gets douchey is they continued to mirror GIMP Windows packages and added the adware on top [16:44] (which is my understanding) [16:45] seems close to a GPL violation. sad that it isn't. [16:46] It's not GPL since it's binary distro [16:46] the original project was binary distro [16:46] again, some nuance in there [16:50] um... [16:50] GPL specifically covers binary distro. [16:51] its not a GPL violation because its an installer which install 2 things. GPL software and malware. [16:52] Yep [17:35] if anyone wants to trade their email to enter a free chair contest: http://virl.io/FUGoMtmk [17:38] that is one fugly chair, but sure why not [17:38] wth is twitch? [17:46] video streaming. Typically video games [17:48] ah a coworker was telling me about this, how his kid will just sit and watch other people watch videogames for hours [17:48] s/watch/play [18:04] god, that stuff [18:04] that sounds terribly boring [18:04] I uh... did that once, but I was sitting in a dorm room watching my friend play the game in person, and only for like 30 minutes [18:05] it was college. he was experimenting. [18:05] exactly [18:14] is anyone in southfield? is it raining over there? [18:18] my son does it on youtube sometimes [18:18] mostly for the crazy comments from whoever is playing [18:19] phwelo: I'm around Royal Oak. It was raining hard for a bit [18:20] Seems to have let up [18:20] hopefully it's not travelling my way. people drive poorly in the rain [18:21] off and on since lunch for me [18:42] watching other people play video games is a thing now, I guess. "E-sports". I don't get it. [18:42] but it's a real thing, with money and everything for the best players [18:42] money doesn't make things real [18:42] because money isn't real [18:42] come on man [18:42] :P [18:43] friggin' hippie. You can't buy food with hugs. [18:43] ...or I'd be fatter than I am. [18:48] i watch people play video games for hours. I'm nuts about starcraft2 [18:48] it has a larger economy than the NHL [18:48] oh yeah, i saw something about an "e-games" player retiring at the ripe age of like 20 from repetitive something injury in his hands [20:26] I watched the International on ESPN [20:26] thinking it would be stupid [20:26] but it was awesome [20:26] i'm watching WCS right now. [20:26] which one is that? [20:27] DOTA isn't as fun to watch as counterstrike to me [20:28] starcraft2