[15:34] <bkerensa> wxl: I will have to pass my booth app was approved too
[15:34] <bkerensa> going to be demoing Mozilla VR
[15:34] <bkerensa> :D
[17:07] <wxl> bkerensa: yours is for kde?
[17:07] <wxl> no mozilla that's right
[17:07] <wxl> so sgclark you want to round up the kde folks again?
[17:08] <wxl> sgclark: bkerensa: all this talk about kubuntu/cc may generate some more interest XD
[17:13] <sgclark> hmm
[17:13] <bkerensa> wxl: will you pay for power out of pocket?
[17:13] <bkerensa> its like $300+
[17:13] <sgclark> not entirely sure kde will be interested after the laast email
[17:13] <wxl> yikes, is that a thing?
[17:13] <bkerensa> yep
[17:13] <wxl> holy f*********************
[17:13] <bkerensa> they just give you a booth man
[17:13]  * wxl facepalms
[17:13] <bkerensa> you pay for everything else
[17:13] <bkerensa> vacuuming
[17:13] <bkerensa> power
[17:13] <bkerensa> internet
[17:14] <wxl> screw it, i'm bringing brochures and nothing else, then.
[17:14] <bkerensa> trash
[17:14] <bkerensa> LOL
[17:14] <bkerensa> :D
[17:14] <bkerensa> Mozilla pays for it all
[17:14] <bkerensa> last year our booth cost $70k
[17:14] <wxl> holy christ
[17:14] <wxl> how is that possible?!
[17:14] <bkerensa> we paid a firm to design us a booth
[17:14] <bkerensa> internet
[17:14] <bkerensa> power
[17:14] <wxl> oh
[17:14] <bkerensa> vacuuming
[17:14] <bkerensa> swag
[17:14] <sgclark> it was pretty fancy though..
[17:14] <bkerensa> dinners
[17:14] <wxl> well ignoring the booth design and swag
[17:14] <wxl> and dinners
[17:15] <bkerensa> ;)
[17:15] <bkerensa> dinners at fancy swank restaurants :P
[17:15] <wxl> still $300 for power?
[17:15] <bkerensa> yes
[17:15] <wxl> that's some total bullcrap
[17:15] <bkerensa> Unionized labor man
[17:15] <bkerensa> :P
[17:15] <wxl> i'll freaking bring a bike and generate my own
[17:15] <wxl> a$$hats
[17:15] <bkerensa> thats how much it cost a guy to come and unlock a metal panel and plug in a power strip
[17:15] <bkerensa> :D
[17:15] <wxl> sgclark: the one from charles?
[17:16] <bkerensa> man it cost us like $3k to get this give away free donuts to attendees
[17:16] <sgclark> yeah
[17:16] <bkerensa> we then had to pay for the donuts too
[17:16] <bkerensa> $3k just to have the privlege to do something nice
[17:16] <bkerensa> ;)
[17:16] <wxl> sgclark: i wasn't too convinced by his proof
[17:16] <bkerensa> wxl: http://benjaminkerensa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/IMG_20140723_161033.jpg
[17:16] <bkerensa> so that was our booth
[17:17] <sgclark> me either, I am contemplating giving up hope and drafting my resignation
[17:17] <bkerensa> and that was my team that worked under me to make it happen :D
[17:17] <wxl> hm
[17:17] <wxl> from kubuntu you mean sgclark ?
[17:17] <wxl> or kde?!
[17:17] <sgclark> mmhm (k)ubuntu , I will continue supporting bug fix releases to Vivid. but not wily
[17:18] <bkerensa> sgclark: why resign?
[17:18] <sgclark> the whole dang thing was handled soooo badly
[17:18] <bkerensa> just ignore Ubuntu
[17:18] <wxl> awwwww
[17:18] <bkerensa> the CC anyways
[17:18] <wxl> i kind of agree with bkerensa
[17:18] <wxl> do your own thing
[17:18] <bkerensa> ^ that
[17:19] <sgclark> why should I put in my valuable (free) time to a project that has no care at all for the community.
[17:19] <bkerensa> sgclark: thats the thing the project you contribute to is Kubuntu
[17:19] <bkerensa> not Ubuntu
[17:19] <bkerensa> stop supporting Ubuntu and focus solely on Kubuntu tasks
[17:20] <sgclark> How is providing KDE packages to all of Ubuntu not contributing to ubuntu?
[17:20] <bkerensa> because it supports Kubuntu
[17:20] <bkerensa> Ubuntu users dont use KDE stuff
[17:20] <bkerensa> ;)
[17:20] <sgclark> pft
[17:20] <sgclark> lies
[17:20] <bkerensa> I never did
[17:20] <bkerensa> :P
[17:21] <bkerensa> sgclark: although if you do #ubuntu-expats is a channel to join
[17:21] <bkerensa> :)
[17:21] <wxl> man
[17:21] <wxl> well i still have faith in the concept of ubuntu
[17:22] <wxl> maybe not the current practices of the community leaders
[17:22] <wxl> i'm sure going to keep trying
[17:22] <wxl> although i feel i should join someone like mozilla instead
[17:22] <sgclark> I up till a week ago, so did I
[17:22] <wxl> (if only i didn't prefer chrome)
[17:22] <bkerensa> http://doctormo.org/2013/03/06/ubuntu-membership-2/
[17:22] <bkerensa> ^ sgclark also probably worth a read especially the comments
[17:23] <bkerensa> a former Kubuntu Leader left a comment there... she left because some of the stuff that kicked off some years ago
[17:23] <bkerensa> honestly Ubuntu has changed a lot since 2009
[17:23] <bkerensa> wxl: :( chrome
[17:24] <bkerensa> you hate the open web bro? :P
[17:24] <wxl> i know, bkerensa
[17:24] <wxl> i know
[17:24] <wxl> it's not a political move
[17:24] <bkerensa> wxl: kees works on chrome ;)
[17:24] <bkerensa> chrome OS I think
[17:26] <wxl> i'll be honest: i love mozilla
[17:27] <wxl> i love everything they stand for
[17:27] <wxl> i love the people!
[17:27] <wxl> and i don't hate firefox
[17:27] <wxl> in my mind thunderbird is the only option for a gui mail reader
[17:27] <wxl> but man there's just little tiny things about chrome that keep me with it
[17:27] <wxl> kinda sucks.
[17:31] <bkerensa> wxl: like what? I would like to know so I can share the feedback with the User Advocacy Team in case its not something we are aware of
[17:31] <wxl> bkerensa: dumb stuff. and actually most of the non-FOSS stuff, like pepper, the pdf reader
[17:32] <sgclark> ahh yes like of pepper is my main complaint
[17:32] <wxl> the other stuff is just like i've gotten used to. certain extensions (which invariably exist for firefox), apps, sync
[17:32] <sgclark> and cross pc sync
[17:32] <sgclark> otherwise I love FF
[17:33] <wxl> i use gmail a lot (i know, i'm like the devil's right hand man) and i like how it integrates neatly
[17:33] <wxl> but i'm sure those things are pretty much good on firefox
[17:33] <wxl> i haven't tried but i've been watching the development
[17:33] <wxl> i used to have problems with memory leaks but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore
[17:33] <wxl> in fact i've had problems with chrome lately
[17:34] <wxl> although i do use beta so that may be the cause
[17:37] <bkerensa> wxl: right memory leaks on Linux had been an issue
[17:37] <bkerensa> Linux kind of comes last in terms of focus
[17:37] <bkerensa> its our smallest user base
[17:37] <wxl> tl;dr i'm totally in support of mozilla everything
[17:37] <wxl> i'm just so far kind of stuck on chrome
[17:37] <wxl> and honestly i don't know why i care so much about flash. i kind of freaking hate it.
[17:37]  * wxl sighs
[17:37] <bkerensa> Pepper we cant support because we hope flash dies and think its a terrible technology
[17:37] <wxl> flash is the new php
[17:37] <bkerensa> PDF... we have a great pdf support in FF
[17:38] <wxl> bkerensa: without extensions?
[17:38] <bkerensa> yep
[17:38] <bkerensa> built in
[17:38] <wxl> ok well i can mark that off the list
[17:38] <wxl> :)
[17:38] <bkerensa> for gosh a long damn time
[17:38] <bkerensa> two years or more?
[17:38] <bkerensa> how long you been away from FF?
[17:38] <bkerensa> :D
[17:38] <wxl> it's been a while!!!
[17:38] <bkerensa> you also are on LTS maybe?
[17:38] <bkerensa> thats much slower than our release cycles
[17:38] <wxl> yeah i'm using lts but it doesn't matter
[17:38] <wxl> i won't pull from the repos typically
[17:39] <wxl> like i'm running thunderbird daily >:)
[17:39] <sgclark> lol Mutual Mexican standoff
[17:39] <bkerensa> Thunderbird imho will die eventually
[17:39] <bkerensa> its not in good shape
[17:39] <sgclark> aww I like thunderbird
[17:39] <wxl> oh god don't tell me that bkerensa
[17:39] <bkerensa> I was doing Thunderbird Release Management in addition to FF Release Management
[17:39] <wxl> please don't tell me that
[17:39]  * wxl cries
[17:39] <sgclark> ikr
[17:39] <bkerensa> well they dont have any real fulltime devs anymore
[17:39]  * sgclark does too
[17:39] <wxl> i've tried and tried and tried and i cannot find anything else i like
[17:39] <sgclark> hmm
[17:39] <bkerensa> and no security folks
[17:39] <wxl> nothing
[17:40] <wxl> O_O
[17:40] <bkerensa> so
[17:40] <bkerensa> no security reviews
[17:40] <bkerensa> of code
[17:40] <bkerensa> its all community folks now
[17:40] <bkerensa> one guy doing QA
[17:40] <bkerensa> Firefox has hundreds going QA
[17:40] <bkerensa> as an example
[17:40] <bkerensa> :P
[17:40] <wxl> fix it bkerensa !
[17:40] <bkerensa> its all about money
[17:40] <bkerensa> TB made only debt
[17:40]  * wxl cries
[17:41] <bkerensa> millions in debt
[17:41] <wxl> let's do some crowdfunding
[17:41] <wxl> tell me more about that
[17:41] <bkerensa> ten full time staff with 100k salaries for years and marketing = debt
[17:41] <bkerensa> :P
[17:41] <bkerensa> Postbox FTW
[17:41] <bkerensa> it is the future
[17:41] <wxl> surely it's the same thing for ff tho?
[17:41] <bkerensa> and the original thunderbird team actually makes Postbox
[17:41] <sgclark> postbox?
[17:42] <bkerensa> wxl: no
[17:42] <bkerensa> Firefox makes millions
[17:42] <bkerensa> tens of millions annually
[17:42] <wxl> through the freaking search engine crap? :)
[17:42] <sgclark> how? I thought it was non profit?
[17:42] <bkerensa> and other things
[17:42] <bkerensa> sgclark: non profit doesnt mean you cant make money
[17:42] <wxl> i thought firefox was a "low profit" corp
[17:42] <bkerensa> Mozilla makes more money then Canonical easily
[17:42] <wxl> (like there's a thing in some states for that now)
[17:43] <wxl> what do they call them? l3cs?
[17:43] <wxl> postbox = ??/
[17:43] <bkerensa> yeah
[17:43] <bkerensa> TB team when they got laid off and left went to make Postbox
[17:43] <wxl> also i see no linux option
[17:43] <sgclark> ok, clearly I need to pull out my dictionary lol
[17:43] <bkerensa> exactly
[17:43] <wxl> f this noise
[17:43] <bkerensa> ;)
[17:43] <bkerensa> but its great
[17:43] <wxl> i forgot you are a freedom hater with yoru mac there, bkerensa :)
[17:44] <bkerensa> wxl: I have multiple systems
[17:44] <bkerensa> :P
[17:44] <wxl> sgclark: read the book drive by daniel pink. that's where i learned about it
[17:44] <bkerensa> synergy
[17:44] <wxl> bkerensa: excuses, excuses :)
[17:44] <bkerensa> wxl: also you been to a open source conference lately other than LFNW?
[17:44] <bkerensa> ;)
[17:44] <wxl> bkerensa: not lately, no. you win. :)
[17:44] <bkerensa> Linux is in the minority even at FOSS conferences
[17:44] <wxl> i know
[17:45] <bkerensa>  FLOSS Weekly hosts = all mac users :P
[17:45] <sgclark> pft
[17:45] <bkerensa> even The Linux Action Show = all done with mac osx
[17:45] <bkerensa> ;)
[17:45] <bkero> :|
[17:45] <bkerensa> bkero:  lawl
[17:45] <bkerensa> :P
[17:45] <bkerensa> you didnt know this?
[17:45] <wxl> bkerensa: well not at lfnw
[17:45] <sgclark> I am growing tired of fighting with OSX builds on my kde ci
[17:45] <wxl> sgclark: sounds like bkerensa is volunteering the foss community to deal with that XD
[17:46] <sgclark> lol
[17:46] <bkerensa> wxl: oh they have a macbook all their software is OSX stuff ;)
[17:46] <bkerensa> wxl: I am about to launch a show with them and its all OSX
[17:46] <wxl> os x pisses me off
[17:46] <bkero> I didn't know. I care as much now as I did back then though.
[17:46] <wxl> it's not freebsd+
[17:46] <sgclark> darn osx and its crazy stupid outdated system libs...
[17:46] <wxl> if it was, i'd be fine
[17:46] <bkerensa> bkero: is it surprising to you though?
[17:46] <bkerensa> bkero: you go to OSCON
[17:46] <bkerensa> look around
[17:46] <bkero> yup
[17:47] <bkerensa> its like 60-70% OSX/Windows and the rest linux
[17:47] <wxl> look, honestly i'm a pragmatist
[17:47] <wxl> that's one of the reasons i choose the sometimes non-foss software i do
[17:47] <wxl> function wins out over politics
[17:47] <sgclark> indeed
[17:47] <bkerensa> Anyways my setup at home is: Macbook, Linux on Mac Mini both into one display with Synergy
[17:47] <bkerensa> so I can switch between both
[17:47] <wxl> i had a period where i really loved os x
[17:48] <wxl> and i think on the surface, it's wonderful
[17:48]  * bkero will live in his beautiful free software world, tyvm.
[17:48] <sgclark> I have several linux boxes, but I do have a windows box. OSX is too rich for my blood >.<
[17:48] <wxl> it's the underpinnings that irritate me
[17:48] <bkerensa> mobile though its almost always OSX right now because I have not bought a new Linux laptop yet and my two linux laptops are dying
[17:48] <wxl> yeah i'm kind of the opposite. i don't do windows, sgclark :)
[17:48] <wxl> ALTHOUGH
[17:48] <sgclark> hehe I like games, and alas windows, though steam is coming along nicely
[17:48] <bkerensa> wxl: btw if you have not met bkero he works at Mozilla and is perhaps one of the biggest Linux zealots there
[17:48] <bkerensa> :D
[17:49] <wxl> i'm kind of exited about what open source microsoft might mean
[17:49] <wxl> +1 for steam
[17:49] <sgclark> yeah
[17:49] <wxl> i need to build a steam box
[17:49] <bkero> It means http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish
[17:49] <bkerensa> I think the only way Linux will have parity with OSX or Windows is if Canonical or Red Hat start bankrolling devs to port
[17:50] <wxl> bkero: heard it before, but i think that may be a jaded view
[17:50] <bkerensa> parity in terms of desktop apps that is
[17:50] <bkerensa> wxl:  also Mozilla was a big reason I got a macbook
[17:50] <bkerensa> bkero:  I blame Mozilla ^
[17:51] <bkerensa> that and gaming
[17:51] <wxl> bkerensa: as you knwo, jmarinacci is a big apple fanboy. well, he uses just about every one of their products. i don't think he's a regular drinker of their kool-aid, though.
[17:51] <bkerensa> running dota2, HoTs etc on Wine is not a option
[17:51] <bkerensa> wxl: I use as much free software on OSX as possible
[17:51] <bkerensa> LibreOffice
[17:51] <bkerensa> Gimp
[17:51] <bkerensa> etc
[17:52] <wxl> bkerensa: in case it's not clear, i wasn't actually insulting your choice of hardware :)
[17:52] <bkerensa> wxl: I know you were not
[17:52] <wxl> just checking :)
[17:52] <bkerensa> I hope someday I can play games without Wine on Linux
[17:52] <bkerensa> good games
[17:52] <bkerensa> to clarify
[17:52] <sgclark> yeah
[17:52] <wxl> heheheh
[17:52] <sgclark> me too
[17:53] <bkerensa> not TuxRacer ;)
[17:53] <sgclark> lol
[17:53] <wxl> hey come on
[17:53] <wxl> i love tuxracer :)
[17:53] <bkerensa> and fwiw steam fking blows on Linux
[17:53] <bkerensa> they need to optimize their code
[17:53] <bkerensa> it always cause my CPU to panic and shutdown
[17:53] <wxl> huh
[17:53] <sgclark> and to be fair I am trying very hard to get OSX going with KDE, and we are making good progress
[17:53] <bkerensa> probably the hardware
[17:53] <wxl> might be a particular game or games
[17:53] <bkerensa> but still
[17:53] <sgclark> Windows is next... that will not be fun
[17:53] <bkerensa> I like "it just works" for gaming
[17:53] <wxl> i play heavy bullets all the time quite happily
[17:54] <bkerensa> try playing dota2
[17:54] <bkerensa> its supported on steam linux
[17:54] <bkerensa> it would cause panic and shutdown
[17:55] <bkero> Is this going to be the conversation where we all talk about how hard we tried to use linux but ended up needing to use windows/osx instead "to get real work done?"
[17:55] <sgclark> I have not had much time to game, but the mmo shrouds of avartar runs great on Linux, native steam build
[17:55] <sgclark> meh I use Linux for everything but the occasional gamines
[17:55] <bkerensa> bkero: no because I still use Ubuntu on my desktop
[17:55] <sgclark> err games
[17:55] <bkerensa> I'm flexible in my use of OSes
[17:56] <bkerensa> much like my use of mobile OSes where I switch between my flame and Nexus 6 often
[17:56] <sgclark> but I may have more gaming time soon! : /
[17:57] <bkerensa> wxl: anyways if you want to use the Portland office bkero is a great contact
[17:57] <bkerensa> :D
[17:58]  * wxl only uses linux except where we need to use windows for microsoft access at work… which we'll eventually deviate from and even then it's in a virtual machine
[17:58] <bkerensa> he also is a great speaker on all things open source but more so electric bikes :D
[17:58] <bkero> heh
[17:58] <wxl> bkero: so i don't know about these weirdos but you're in good company with me :)
[17:59] <bkero> okay
[17:59] <wxl> bkero: bike friday just started offering bionx builds on our cargo bikes and regular singles
[18:00] <bkerensa> wxl: do you use irccloud?
[18:00] <wxl> bkerensa: btw that dude you suggested who's the debian packager never got in touch at all.
[18:00] <bkerensa> wxl: who?
[18:00] <wxl> no, irssi
[18:00] <bkerensa> you mean Steve Langasek?
[18:00] <wxl> been meaning to switch to weechat but i dread the set up time :)
[18:00] <wxl> yes!
[18:00] <bkerensa> slangasek is in this channel ;) you should have pinged him more
[18:00] <bkero> wxl: bionx?
[18:00] <bkerensa> he is a Canonical Dev too ;)
[18:01] <bkerensa> not just a Debian Packager
[18:01] <wxl> bkero: electric bike bits from canada
[18:01] <bkerensa> wxl: slangasek likes beer :D
[18:01] <wxl> bkerensa: do you think if i just keep mentioning slangasek in every line he'll reply?
[18:01] <bkero> wxl: Oh, cool. I built my own. Just finished my second.
[18:02] <bkero> lipo battery packs, lyen controllers, crystalyte motors
[18:02] <wxl> bkerensa: i know that i could certainly provide slangasek beer for a talk on debian packaging. our lug is full of beer nuts.
[18:02] <bkerensa> wxl: it is possible
[18:02] <wxl> bkero: nice. we experimented with our own builds but in the end, the bionx system is pretty amazing. the lack of a front wheel drive kind of sucks, though.
[18:02] <wxl> oh and also slangasek
[18:03] <bkerensa> wxl: also bdmurray gives good talks he is the Ubuntu Bug Master
[18:03] <wxl> i like bdmurray. (slangasek, btw)
[18:04] <bkero> wxl: Check out flykly
[18:04] <wxl> bkero: will do. oh, and slangasek
[18:04] <bkero> I have one of those coming. I'm grumpy because I was part of the second batch which is coming in july/august.
[18:06] <wxl> bkero: the only thing i don't like is the dependence on the single speed
[18:06] <bkerensa> wxl: you could also email him ;) vorlon@debian.org
[18:06] <wxl> bkerensa: i already did that, so i think i'll have to keep mentioning slangasek for him to reply, as you suggested :)
[18:07] <bkero> wxl: you can always do the front chainring gear selection
[18:07] <wxl> bkero: come do a talk at our lug in eugene!
[18:07] <bkerensa> wxl: slangasek@ubuntu.com perhaps?
[18:07] <bkero> wxl: Eugene LUG, 'eh?
[18:07] <bkero> Is it Eugene or UofO?
[18:07] <wxl> bkero: yeah but that's not really significant enough
[18:07] <wxl> bkero: eug
[18:07] <bkero> okay
[18:07] <wxl> a wee bit out of date but http://euglug.org/
[18:09] <wxl> bkero: i'll get you a ride on the bionx cargo bike :)
[18:09] <bkero> haha okay
[18:12] <bkero> wxl: I'll bring the electric skateboard down then.
[18:13] <wxl> bkero: no way!!!! what deck? show me pics!!!
[18:13] <sgclark> wow
[18:13] <sgclark> I wanna see that
[18:13] <wxl> a member of the lubuntu team has one or is working on one
[18:14]  * wxl is healing from sprain caused by a skateboard injury
[18:14] <wxl> …so you';re in good company yet again :)
[18:14] <bkero> wxl: Old sector 9 (Sektor9?) longboard that I had. Turnigy 63mm motor. 6s lipo battery pack.
[18:14] <wxl> niiiice
[18:14] <bkero> Using a wireless RC car throttle
[18:15] <bkero> It's fun
[18:15] <wxl> what length board? what wheels? reverse trucks?
[18:16] <bkero> Alien wheels, standard trucks. There's a plate welded to the back truck, and a sprocket and belt that attach the motor to the wheel
[18:16] <bkero> Here are some good kits: http://diyelectricskateboard.com/
[18:17] <bkero> http://diyelectricskateboard.com/product/single-motor-electric-longboard-kit/ is likely what you want.
[18:17] <wxl> wow niiiiice
[18:17] <wxl> alien workshop or those sunset led ones? :)
[18:18] <bkero> I have alien workshop
[18:18] <bkero> They do alright. They're pretty hard.
[18:18] <wxl> hard for a longboard or hard?
[18:18] <bkero> Haha, I wouldn't know the diff. :)
[18:18] <wxl> i think i'm running 80a's on my hybrid deck
[18:18] <wxl> heheheheh
[18:18] <bkero> Either way it's fun, and zips me up hills.
[18:19] <wxl> super rad
[18:19] <wxl> can't wait to see it :)
[18:19] <bkero> Is dangerously fast
[18:19] <bkero> There's no speed limiter, so it'll knock you off and zoom away if you're not careful with the throttle
[18:20] <bkero> It's cool that you can build one for around $350-400. The weirdest part is finding a way to mount a battery box.
[18:39] <wxl> bkerensa: does mozilla sync extensions/themes/bookmarks/history across devices?
[18:40] <bkerensa> yes
[18:40] <wxl> sessions?
[18:40] <wxl> i know firefox DEFINITELY handles session management a lot better
[18:40] <wxl> man does that get me about chrome
[20:44] <slangasek> hmm
[20:44] <slangasek> that's a lot of highlights
[21:24] <wxl> slangasek: yep, all to get you to come talk at our log!
[21:24] <wxl> um
[21:24] <wxl> lug