[00:10] <Hacker_TO> Hi where do I report bugs?
[00:17] <valorie> Hacker_TO: it depends on what the bug is
[00:17] <valorie> if it is packaging, to kubuntu on launchpad
[00:17] <valorie> if it is in a KDE application, then bugs.kde.org
[00:17] <valorie> what is the bug?
[00:17] <Hacker_TO> kubuntu upgrade bug from 14.10 to 15.04
[00:18] <valorie> ah
[00:18] <valorie> def. in launchpad
[00:18] <valorie> but I don't know enough about the various components to tell you what to file against.
[00:19] <Hacker_TO> what is the link ?
[00:19] <Hacker_TO> to site page
[00:19] <valorie> how about this: write to the kubuntu-devel list and describe the problem and we'll try to sort it out with the experts
[00:19] <valorie> !bugs
[00:20] <valorie> that might work; if not, please write and ask and we'll help
[00:20] <Hacker_TO> OK Thanks I'll do that, some of the bugs were incorrectly reported to kde
[00:22] <valorie> sorry, have to go out for a few hours; I hope I've given you enough to go on
[00:22] <valorie> we appreciate good bug reporting, so thank you in advance
[00:23] <Hacker_TO> yes I got it, thanks for you help!
[01:03] <tkhan> hello there
[01:04] <tkhan> i needed some help on the file indexing tool baloo
[01:04] <tkhan> its process baloo_file just keeps eating one core of my CPU
[01:04] <tkhan> this is 15.04 64bit
[01:05] <tkhan> anyone knows of a solution to fix the anomally?
[01:06] <shadeslayer> yeah sounds like a busted db
[01:06] <shadeslayer> that's what I get too at times
[01:06] <shadeslayer> tkhan: can you gdb into it?
[01:06] <shadeslayer> sudo gdb -p `pidof baloo_file`
[01:06] <shadeslayer> then type in : t a a bt
[01:07] <shadeslayer> and pastebin the backtrace
[01:07] <shadeslayer> tkhan: you can also disable indexing if it's not something you want
[01:07] <shadeslayer> and can live without
[01:08] <tkhan> putting it in pastebin in a moment
[01:09] <tkhan> http://pastebin.com/LfUxRSBN
[01:11] <shadeslayer> #6  0x00007f980eb04a62 in Xapian::Document::Internal::get_value(unsigned int) const () from /usr/lib/libxapian.so.22
[01:11] <shadeslayer> yeah xapian issue
[01:12] <tkhan> i don't mind disabling it
[01:12] <tkhan> but is it a common problem ?
[01:12] <shadeslayer> yeah
[01:12] <tkhan> i am not really sure
[01:12] <tkhan> but I think the issue may have happened
[01:13] <shadeslayer> it's fairly common for me
[01:13] <shadeslayer> anyway, xapian is being dropped
[01:13] <tkhan> after I linked one of the samba shares to the list of places
[01:13] <shadeslayer> in favor of lmdb
[01:13] <tkhan> ok
[01:13] <shadeslayer> tkhan: actually, that list is a exclusion list
[01:13] <shadeslayer> so you explicitly excluded the samba share
[01:15] <tkhan> and now i cant find it under places... funny
[01:19] <tkhan> ok, baloo is out for now...
[01:20] <tkhan> Thanks shadeslayer!
[01:20] <shadeslayer> Cheers
[01:20] <tkhan> !!@!!
[01:41] <austin6598> can this run on kubuntu?: https://github.com/xybu/onedrive-d
[02:02] <Roey> hi
[02:02] <Roey> shadeslayer:  heya!
[03:03] <PeEll> Hey there. I'm having a problem where I have two task managers, each set to only display the contents of the associated screen, but sometimes windows end up on the wrong task manager.
[03:03] <PeEll> I've tried removing and re-adding the task manager, which works at first, but then the problems come back later. What am I doing wrong, or where should I look?
[03:04] <austin6598> are there any other options checked besides the first filter
[03:07] <PeEll> No
[03:13] <austin6598> must be a bug, sorry idk
[05:14] <jean_doe> hi there folks
[05:15] <jean_doe> I'm using the Kubuntu 15.04 and getting some troubles while trying to change the keyboard layout.
[05:16] <jean_doe> Is there any kde5 module to install which can provide the keyboard layout configuration ?
[05:18] <valorie> system settings > keyboard
[05:18] <valorie> or just alt+space and type in keyboard and it will be one of the choices
[05:19] <valorie> jean_doe: ^^^
[05:21] <jean_doe> valorie: so... there's no such option.
[05:22] <valorie> well, you can go directly to system settings and find it in there, then
[05:23] <valorie> Hardware > Input devices > keyboard
[05:23] <jean_doe> valorie: are you under graphical env. ? Could I show you these print sreens ?
[05:23] <valorie> yes, I'm using 15.04 as well
[05:23] <valorie> sure, you can upload to imgur or snaggy or something
[05:24] <jean_doe> what image server can I use to share it?
[05:24] <jean_doe> sure
[05:25] <jean_doe> valorie: http://imgur.com/3xAOlb4
[05:26] <jean_doe> valorie: http://imgur.com/U2baCj8
[05:26] <jean_doe> see? Quite strange.
[05:27] <jean_doe> valorie: taupter told me the same as you: systemsettings >> keyboard config.
[05:27] <valorie> in your first image, can you scroll down below the networking section?>
[05:27] <jean_doe> sure
[05:27] <valorie> that's where hardware is, in mine
[05:27] <jean_doe> valorie: duuuude.
[05:27] <valorie> ?
[05:27]  * jean_doe is SOOOO NOOB
[05:27] <valorie> lol
[05:27] <jean_doe> ROFLMAO
[05:27] <valorie> so you found it, I take it?
[05:28] <jean_doe> valorie: really?
[05:28] <jean_doe> YEAH
[05:28] <valorie> \o/
[05:28] <jean_doe> sry by my noobness
[05:28] <jean_doe> LOL
[05:28] <valorie> np
[05:28] <valorie> we've all been there
[05:28] <jean_doe> valorie: IOU, dude
[05:28] <valorie> also: there is a searchbar which can be useful
[05:28]  * valorie is no dude
[05:28] <valorie> :-)
[05:29] <jean_doe> yeah... I deserve one year of whiping
[05:29] <jean_doe> SWAP!
[05:29] <jean_doe> thanks dude
[05:29] <valorie> nah, just help someone later
[05:29] <jean_doe> cya
[05:29] <jean_doe> SURE
[05:29] <valorie> which is how I learned
[05:29] <jean_doe> doing it right now
[05:29] <valorie> making mistakes
[05:29] <jean_doe> Is not for me.
[05:29] <valorie> :-)
[05:29] <jean_doe> thanks again
[05:29] <valorie> you are welcome
[05:58] <nlsthzn> firstly, #IsupportJonothan
[05:58] <nlsthzn> and then secondly got to say 15.04 rocks :)
[05:59]  * nlsthzn fades back into the shadows
[05:59] <valorie> thanks, nlsthzn
[07:29] <lordievader> Good morning.
[07:48] <Fox_> hi all how is 15.04?
[07:50] <__dan__> hi Fox_, if I said it was bulletproof and 100% polished I would be lying, but it is very, very nice :)
[07:50] <lordievader> Quite allright, I'd say.
[07:50] <Fox_> yeah well its early days. I wouldnt expect it to be perfect right now
[07:51] <__dan__> sounds like you're approaching it in exactly the right way
[07:51] <lordievader> ;)
[07:52] <Fox_> ive been using kubuntu for years i know how these things go :)
[07:52] <__dan__> I'm using it every day for work stuff and it hasn't disappointed me fatally
[07:52] <Fox_> sadly i wont get a taste till the next lts
[07:52] <nlsthzn> enable backports and get all the latest KDE goodies almost as they drop :D
[07:53] <lordievader> Fox_: Company policy?
[07:53] <Fox_> no mate personal policy. I only use LTS to get the most stable versions
[07:53] <lordievader> Understandable.
[07:54] <lordievader> Though you can experiment with VM's ;)
[07:54] <Fox_> i could but id rather luv it when its at its best
[07:54] <__dan__> go on, install it, submit a bug report
[07:54] <__dan__> it's good for the soul :P
[07:55] <Fox_> although call me old school if you like. But the new cinnemon look im not sure ill warm up to totally
[07:56] <lordievader> Cinnamon was the Gnome 2 fork, right?
[07:56] <__dan__> I'm really liking it tbh, but you know, it's KDE, you can have whatever you want :)
[07:56] <Fox_> will the plasma 4 themes still work in 5?
[07:57] <__dan__> don't think so tbh, but dont take my word for it, i never tried
[07:57] <Fox_> a shame i love how my desktop is now :)
[07:57] <Fox_> fianlly got it how i like it lol
[07:58] <__dan__> cmon, install it, love it, tinker with it, break it, file a bug report ;)
[07:58] <__dan__> +10 internet points if you install it on real tin haha
[07:58] <Fox_> @lordievader yeah was a fork of gnome
[07:59] <Fox_> lol a mate of mine who got me into linux a few years ago. keeps trying to get me into doing testing and bug reports. ive never got into that side of it
[07:59] <lordievader> __dan__: There is a reason LTS exist. Don't push people to differ from their policies.
[08:00] <__dan__> hehe I know bud :)
[08:01] <Fox_> im not a major computer guru so i tend to steer away from that sorta thing
[08:01] <Fox_> i fixed a few easy things things ive stuffed up. but ive broken it a few times aswell lol
[08:01] <__dan__> if I was sensible I might have also waited for 16.04 tbh, but I couldn't wait to Get the Hot New Stuff haha
[08:01] <lordievader> Fox_: Reporting bugs is rather easy ;) So if you do find one, please report it.
[08:04] <Fox_> lol if i ever test it in a VM i might get into it
[08:04] <__dan__> fundamentally writing a bug report is just writing an email describing how you broke something
[08:04] <Fox_> but as a person i tend to just like things to work as im a quite impatient guy. Why i went to LTS's
[08:05] <lordievader> Err...
[08:05] <Fox_> the amount of times ive had to reinstall the annuals since i started using i run out of fingers and toes to count lol
[08:05] <lordievader> !bug
[08:06] <lordievader> No need to email, in most cases it is simply: ubuntu-bug <package-name>
[08:06] <__dan__> haha yeah if you don't like to reinstall i would still steer clear of btrfs :)
[08:09] <Fox_> pretty dodgy whats gone on with Riddell
[08:09]  * Riddell agrees
[08:09] <__dan__> lol hi Riddell
[08:09] <lordievader> Riddell: Ola
[08:10] <Fox_> lol hi Riddell i supported the twitter campaign
[08:10] <Riddell> thanks Fox_, I could do with the moral support
[08:11] <__dan__> hang in there fella :)
[08:11] <Fox_> i have been with kubuntu since i left windows. my support is absolute
[08:11] <Riddell> I'll try to keep it alive but I can't promise
[08:12] <Fox_> i hope it doesnt come to that but ill follow wherever the team goes
[08:12] <Fox_> a name can be changed if need be. the folks that made it happen you shouldnt lose
[08:13] <__dan__> yeah man don't let some dickbag pseudo-politicians make you turn your back on what you and the team have achieved
[08:14] <__dan__> they don't have the right
[08:15] <Fox_> this sorta thing shouldnt be happening in this community
[08:15] <Fox_> i think some peoples heads have become too swollen
[08:16] <__dan__> yeah it's not conducive to progress is it :/
[08:18] <__dan__> hopefully the future will become clear soon :)
[08:19] <Fox_> i dont htink the whole community no matter what distro you are in. Woouldnt support this kinda thing. They will alienate alot of poeple if they dont come to there senses
[08:20] <__dan__> I suspect they already have :/
[08:20] <__dan__> but in the meantime let us continue chanting ALL HAIL GLORIOUS LEADER and making Riddell-branded KDE themes in the style of North Korean propaganda posters
[08:21] <Riddell> :)
[08:21] <__dan__> right guys?? ;) ahaha
[08:21] <Fox_> whats the chances of becoming ya own men so to speak and not relying on the apple wannabies
[08:21] <Odur> I just read Scott's blog. I'm speechless...
[08:23] <__dan__> yeah I was equally gobsmacked tbh
[08:23] <Fox_> yeah when i read about it. nothing makes any sense
[08:24] <__dan__> least of all the question, what did they expect was going to be the reaction?
[08:25] <__dan__> a "Community Council" with clearly not a shred of diplomatic skill between them
[08:25] <Odur> Looks like a personal beef when reading between the lines
[08:26] <Fox_> bigheaded and jealous of what you guys have done with kubuntu. while unity still sucks ass lol
[08:26] <__dan__> ahahaha controversial :P
[08:27] <Odur> Riddell: Well, you got my support. Not that I have any impact on things...
[08:28] <Fox_> ok an embaressing rokkie question. how do i add this channel to quassel?
[08:28] <Riddell> thanks Odur
[08:29] <Odur> Fox_: Change to Konversation, then I could help :P
[08:29] <__dan__> yeah I'm on Konversation too, sorry
[08:29] <Fox_> lol ok ill go find it
[08:30] <Odur> (I really think Kubuntu should switch back to Konversation)
[08:31] <Fox_> ok got it
[08:32] <__dan__> may be worth pointing out at this stage that a lot of our discussion just now isn't really on topic for this channel (this channel is for support) there is #kubuntu-offtopic for general chat and such
[08:32] <__dan__> while you're adding channels :)
[08:33] <Fox_> oh ok my bad
[08:33] <__dan__> no worries, just letting you know :)
[08:34] <Fox_> cool so what do i do?
[08:34] <__dan__> well you can /join #kubuntu-offtopic if you like, but there's not really much going on in there either
[08:35] <Fox_> damn i was looking for a place to chat with fellow users
[08:35] <__dan__> most people in there are also in here
[08:36] <Fox_> cool
[08:37] <__dan__> some people get annoyed at general chit chat in here, just wanted to let you know before that happens :P
[08:37] <Fox_> hey im bound to stuff somehting up in the future so i will need both channels lol
[08:37] <__dan__> eheh ya me too :)
[08:38] <Fox_> ok so on topic now. how do i add these two channels?
[08:39] <Odur> Push F2 and see what opens up
[08:39] <Fox_> absolutely nothing :)
[08:39] <Odur> what?!
[08:40] <Fox_> i push f2 and nohting happens
[08:41] <Fox_> whats it supposed to do?
[08:41] <Odur> Hmmm... Menu File, top entry (servers)
[08:41] <Odur> I don't have english as my system language, so I'm not sure about the wording
[08:42] <__dan__> if I remember correctly, with Quassel, once you join a channel it will remain in your list
[08:42] <Fox_> ok it must have done something knucks is me lol
[08:42] <__dan__> although not sure whether it will auto-join or not, maybe right click on the channel name in the list?
[08:43] <__dan__> you get like a tree view don't you on the left with all the channels?
[08:43] <Fox_> no i donloaed konversation
[08:43] <Fox_> downloaded
[08:44] <knucks> hello fox
[08:45] <Fox_> mmmmhello kncks
[08:45] <Fox_> knucks
[08:45] <Fox_> ok i got this channel in it
[08:45] <__dan__> lol multiple personalities much? :P
[08:45] <Fox_> yeah costing me a fortune in therapy
[08:45] <Odur> lol
[08:45] <__dan__> ahaha
[08:46] <__dan__> in Konversation if you want to auto-join channels just press F2 (or File menu -> Server List) and just edit the server, you can add channels in the window that appears there
[08:46] <Fox_> ill cjange my nick on konverstion later
[08:50] <knucks> ok i did f2 and the server window pops up. do i click on new?
[08:51] <__dan__> you're already connected, so there will be a server already in that list
[08:51] <__dan__> just edit that server you connected to
[08:52] <knucks> ok and th ename of the general chat channel is?
[08:52] <__dan__> #kubuntu-offtopic
[08:53] <Odur> knucks: Did you press F2 in Quassel or Konversation when I asked you to before?
[08:53] <knucks> yes i did
[08:53] <Odur> In what program?
[08:53] <knucks> konver
[08:54] <Odur> And it didn't do anything at first?
[08:54] <Odur> Well, I think you weren't connected to a server then :)
[08:54] <knucks> no casue i had the server window up already. why i didnt see anything pop up :)
[08:55] <knucks> ok i added the general chat channel
[08:57] <knucks> thanks for that ill switch to general chat now
[08:58] <Odur> Well, I have to go. Bye for now
[08:59] <__dan__> cya Odur
[09:00] <knucks> thanks Odur seeya
[09:02] <otjura> anyone else having problem of plasma5 slowing over time? by time uptime hits 8, system is almost unusable. after reboot it's brisk again.
[09:07] <__dan__> lol is 5 separate users enough, aurelie? :P
[09:08] <__dan__> otjura: it's been fine for me, over how long a time are you talking about?
[09:09] <__dan__> otjura: also might be useful to see which processes are taking up the CPU
[09:12] <otjura> __dan__: at around 8th day plasma gets very slwo
[09:12] <otjura> I now temporarily reverted to unity because I need to get things done and to see if it happens here too
[09:21] <__dan__> hmmm next time it happens it's worth checking to see which process is causing that
[09:47] <Walex> otjura: nearly everything slows and bloats over time, programmers don't take leak avoidance seriously
[09:48] <Walex> otjura: especially recently released not quite finished KDE Plasma 5
[09:48] <Walex> otjura: and it could be that it is an X resource leak etc.
[09:50] <lordievader> Plasma4 can run for days though...
[09:54] <RtMF> wg #stims
[09:54] <RtMF> oops
[10:02] <sigma_> hi guys
[10:02] <sigma_> have a quick question
[10:03] <sigma_> in 15.04, does anyone know how to change the timezone on the analog clock widget?
[10:03] <sigma_> this used to be an option in the kde4 analog clock, but no longer in the kde5 version
[11:44] <BluesKaj> Hiyas all
[13:21] <eXistenZe> Hey guys. What's the best way to use one 120Gb SSD and a 640Gb HDD for a kubuntu install? The HDD goes for /home but what of the SDD? 8Gb swap leaves 112Gb for root wich seems too much.
[13:22] <eXistenZe> Partition even further for /media?
[13:25] <dmatt> eXistenZe: I would go for /home on separate SSD partion and mount hdd as home/user/data
[13:28] <eXistenZe> hum... what exactly is /home/user/data ? (you can guess I'm a n00b at this)
[13:28] <dmatt> eXistenZe: or put virtualbox images (or whatever else you want to hav fast rw access to) to SSD partition and mount it as /home/user/fast/VBdisks
[13:29] <eXistenZe> I guess I'm a couple of months away of understanding that...
[13:29] <dmatt> just folder name where you store all your data you would like to put on hdd
[13:33] <eXistenZe> Ok... Is a separate /boot partition necessary as stated in a couple of articles?
[13:34] <nlsthzn> nope, boot not required inless uefi afaik
[13:34] <nlsthzn> *unless
[13:34] <nlsthzn> I always go seperate / , home and swap obviously
[13:39] <yossarianuk> never understood the benefit of a seperate /home
[13:39] <BluesKaj> nighter_, did you wipe your windows partitions after receiving the computer, and how old is the machine ?
[13:39] <yossarianuk> unless you are sharing /home with multiple distros
[13:39] <lordievader> yossarianuk: Also for reinstalls, it makes things easy.
[13:40] <lordievader> And you cannot fill up your system partition with stupid users ;)
[13:40] <BluesKaj> oops wrong nick
[13:40] <yossarianuk> but then you may have issues if the different distros use different versions of software - i.e different versions of firefox, etc
[13:40] <ikonia> not always sure a seperate /home directory does make things easier
[13:40] <yossarianuk> lordievader: that is a good point (silly users - i.e clients/staff)
[13:40] <ikonia> as with upgrades it can carry unsupported features/configs thorugh to new versions, and with clean installs it can leave problems in place
[13:41] <BluesKaj> seems he left anyway , but i don't see a notifier
[13:41] <nlsthzn> I always keep my data on the separate /home but delete all hidden files / folders when I re-install :p
[13:41] <yossarianuk> I have a separate /tmp partition as I mount it with nobarriers
[13:42] <BluesKaj> odd, tab wouldn't autocomplete his nick
[13:43] <BluesKaj> I prefer / and /home partitions so I can reinstall quickly without having to set everything up all over again
[13:44] <lordievader> ikonia: There are allways pros and cons.
[13:47]  * nlsthzn watches the solar impulse impromptu landing in Japan show -  https://youtu.be/GHa05MxP1YA and then shuts-up because of being off-topic in the help channel >.<
[13:49] <eXistenZe> I don't need fast access to anything but the OS. It's just a waste of space to give it 100Gb.
[13:50] <eXistenZe> There's no process manager in linux, rigth? If an app hangs the best way to close is to sudo kill, right?
[13:51] <hateball> eXistenZe: by linux, do you mean Kubuntu?
[13:52] <BluesKaj> nlsthzn, it's gonna be a suspensful flight across the pacific... 6 days or some such
[13:52] <hateball> eXistenZe: if you are using Plasma you can start one with ctrl+esc
[13:53] <nlsthzn> BluesKaj: they hit bad weather and landing in a few minutes... so the next leg will then also be shorter by about two days by the sound of it...
[13:53] <nlsthzn> hateball: ctrl+esc ... didn't know that one, thanks :D
[13:53] <eXistenZe> nice
[13:53] <BluesKaj> I see ..I hope they make it ok
[13:53] <nlsthzn> firefox eating 1.3gb as per usual
[13:54] <hateball> nlsthzn: :)
[13:54] <lordievader> nlsthzn: top/htop can also kill process.
[13:54] <nlsthzn> usual use htop
[13:55] <eXistenZe> The only thing preventing me from deleting windows for good is a good and reliable office suite
[13:55] <eXistenZe> libre is ok, but not enough
[13:55] <BluesKaj> thank goodness I don't need one
[13:56] <eXistenZe> guess I can use the extra space on sdd for a virtualbox
[13:58] <eXistenZe> or wine
[14:27] <__dan__> eXistenZe: perhaps see if Calligra is any better for your needs than LibreOffice?
[14:32] <eXistenZe> __dan__: bad compatibility with doc and docx
[14:32] <eXistenZe> Gotta try office online and see if it works
[14:33] <__dan__> ahhh yeah I've filed a bug report or two myself against LibreOffice when it comes to DOCX
[14:33] <__dan__> no idea how Calligra shapes up in terms of DOC / DOCX
[14:33] <__dan__> just thought I'd offer the suggestion tho :)
[14:35] <eXistenZe> calligra can't even write to doc/docx
[14:36] <__dan__> can on my machine bud
[14:37] <__dan__> docx anyway, maybe not doc
[14:43] <eXistenZe> gonna try virtual box. I definitly need the presentation mode from powerpoint 2013
[14:44] <__dan__> my condolences :/ eheh
[14:45] <__dan__> *poorpoint :P
[14:53] <eXistenZe> :) not goint to stop testing linux choices btw
[14:55] <lordievader> eXistenZe: Try KVM, Windows works nicely within KVM. I use Lightroom that way.
[14:55] <__dan__> tbh I share your pain eXistenZe, not sure when LibreOffice 5 is due out but I believe it's available for testing already
[14:55] <yossarianuk> KVM works great with Linux too - except with openGL/3D
[14:55] <lordievader> yossarianuk: GPU passthrough ;)
[15:02] <eXistenZe> no need for opengl or 3d. Just the bare minimum for office
[15:03] <eXistenZe> the lighter the better
[15:06] <lordievader> eXistenZe: KVM gives near bare-metal performance.
[15:06] <eXistenZe> translation for non-english native?
[15:06] <lordievader> Perhaps that is more true for Linux guests than Windows guests, but still.
[15:07] <lordievader> Almost as if it is installed directly on the machine, instead of a vm.
[15:07] <eXistenZe> so it's flawless?
[15:08] <lordievader> No, nothing is.
[15:09] <eXistenZe> wonder it this t9400 is enough for virtualization
[15:09] <eXistenZe> not exactly a core quad
[15:14] <__dan__> doesn't really matter if you're just gonna run office and such, that chip probably has hardware virt support so it should be OK
[15:14] <__dan__> although maybe a little old for VT-D or whatever it's called (where you can do GPU passthrough and that kind of crazy stuff)
[15:15] <m_tadeu> hi...where is the mouse app launch feedback?
[15:20] <eXistenZe> Ok... deadline set... Wednsday I receive the ssd and delete win8.1 for good
[15:20] <eXistenZe> win8 is just so so bad
[15:21] <eXistenZe> there are probably not enough words to describe it
[15:45] <eXistenZe> hum... kde did not like the optical drive hot conection
[16:38] <lordievader> Since when do optical drives support that?
[16:40] <eXistenZe> it's sata. why shouldn't they?
[16:40] <eXistenZe> hard drives do
[16:51] <EvilRoey> sata hard drives are hot pluggable?
[16:51] <EvilRoey> I didn't know that
[16:51] <EvilRoey> like, the ones in the case, I can unplug them without turning the system off first?
[16:51] <est31> yes EvilRoey
[16:52] <est31> but make sure you sync first
[16:52] <est31> and unmount them
[16:52] <EvilRoey> well unmount of course
[16:52] <EvilRoey> and sync, that's logical too.
[16:52] <est31> http://unix.stackexchange.com/a/43450
[16:52] <EvilRoey> oh, you can't hotswap PCI cards, right?
[16:52] <EvilRoey> thank you!
[16:53] <eXistenZe> I have power and sata cable extentions on my desktop to quickly connect and repair/copy drives
[16:53] <eXistenZe> plus the chieftech hotswap module
[16:54] <EvilRoey> "
[16:54] <EvilRoey> 	
[16:54] <EvilRoey> I strongly advice to always issue the echo 1 > /sys/block/(whatever)/device/delete command because the drive will park the heads, fully stop the disk and disable power on the bus. If a non-parked head touches a spinning plate the drive can be permanently destroyed. –  drumfire Feb 12 '14 at 21:21 "
[16:54] <eXistenZe> very handy
[16:58] <eXistenZe> hum... DJ backspin sound... that would be bad...
[17:09] <Mekzholan> Hi, since I've updated to Kubuntu 15.04 my Firefox doesn't respect the virtual desktops any more after session restore. (I.e. all windows are created on the first virtual deskptop - but I had one on each...).
[17:09] <Mekzholan> Is that a known problem? Can I fix it somehow?
[17:28] <henry8989> hello i was wondering if kubuntu supported the geforce 6150 as I know regular ubuntu does not
[17:42] <Dry_Lips> henry8989, kubuntu uses the same packages and drivers as regular ubuntu
[17:43] <henry8989> yes i understand that but my 6150 does not support the unity 3d and wondering if the kde desktop enviorment did
[17:44]  * __dan__ was just looking into that, apparently the NVidia proprietary drivers do support the GeForce 6150
[17:44] <henry8989> because when i installed regular ubuntu and set the nvidia drivers i jsut get a black screen with a mouse cursor
[17:45] <__dan__> that's odd :/
[17:46] <__dan__> I've had no problems with the 304 nvidia drivers on my laptop running kubuntu 15.04, you would be using the same driver on that chipset also
[17:46] <henry8989> if i use the nouveau drivers it does the same thing but at least then a can use nomodeset to get to a 640x480 desktop
[17:46] <lordievader> EvilRoey: Make sure your motherboard also supports it.
[17:46] <__dan__> yeah I had to use nomodeset on this too, otherwise there was screen corruption
[17:47] <henry8989> how did you fix yours
[17:47] <__dan__> once I got the proper nvidia drivers installed, it was fine
[17:47] <henry8989> but the nomodeset does not work with official nvidia drivers or with the opensource nvidia drivers
[17:48] <henry8989> but any driver i install does not work
[17:48] <henry8989> i know the 173 drivers are suppose to work but can't download them and isntall them using apt-get
[17:48] <__dan__> nomodeset was working for me on the opensource nvidia drivers ("nouveau")
[17:48] <henry8989> yes nomodeset worked for me there too
[17:48] <__dan__> according to the nvidia site, that card is compatible with the 304 release of drivers
[17:48] <henry8989> but i need mroe resolution than 640x480
[17:49] <henry8989> well they are not i tried them
[17:49] <__dan__> maybe the problem is with unity?
[17:49] <henry8989> i think it is which is why i was thnking maybe kubuntu would work
[17:49] <__dan__> if you've just done a fresh install of ubuntu and that didn't work, it wouldnt take too long to at least try kubuntu
[17:49] <henry8989> better
[17:50] <__dan__> all I can say is that I'm running Kubuntu 15.04 with the same nvidia drivers that are supposed to be installed with the card you have, and I don't have any problems at all
[17:50] <henry8989> also can i install chromium with kubuntu?
[17:50] <__dan__> yep :)
[17:50] <clivejo> or course
[17:50] <clivejo> of
[17:51] <__dan__> although it comes with Firefox by default and personally I find that browser to be far superior
[17:51] <__dan__> but to each his own :)
[17:51] <__dan__> Chromium is available from the package manager, very easy to install
[17:51] <henry8989> cool im trying to take an old office pc that had its hard drive and i can't reinstall windows on a put ubuntu on it so it will work without havign to buy windows since i have a blank hard drive and i jsut need it for basic web browsing and office work
[17:52] <henry8989> well the person who will be using the pc likes google chrome
[17:52] <__dan__> yeah Kubuntu will eat that kind of thing for breakfast, while looking cooler than Windows too :)
[17:52] <clivejo> you can get chrome for it too, I use Chrome so that I can cast to my Chromecast
[17:52] <EvilRoey> lordievader:  good point
[17:53] <EvilRoey> an intel X99 motherboard here.
[17:53] <clivejo> henry8989: sure try and Kubuntu Live CD/DVD see how it handles your graphics card
[17:53] <henry8989> yes i know my pc has ubuntu on it a and its cool but i am fixing someone elses pc that was used in an office and  only had the web browser and livbre office on it
[17:54] <__dan__> henry8989: to test the graphics fully you will need to install Kubuntu to the hard drive (to install the proprietary nvidia drivers) FYI
[17:55] <__dan__> henry8989: but if you install it and continue to struggle, please come back and we can see what we can do to fix it :)
[17:55] <henry8989> well i have no problem doing that
[17:55] <henry8989> wwell im figuring its the unioty 3d since the graphics are so old
[17:56] <__dan__> it's possible, that chipset is as old as the hills
[17:56] <__dan__> but theoretically at least, it should run with Kubuntu
[17:58] <__dan__> the laptop I have Kubuntu 15.04 on is running an old Quadro, basically the equivalent of GeForce 7950 and it performs almost faultlessly, the only weird thing I've seen is it does glitch very slightly when in the lowest power-save mode (100MHz)
[17:58] <__dan__> doesn't affect usability though, it only "blinks" for a split second, so it's no big deal - the nouveau drivers on the other hand were completely unusable
[17:59] <rsd> did something change in KIO SSH (fish/sftp) on kde5? Now, some remote file editing on kate appears under krun (instead of hostname) and saves are not uploaded back to the remote.  Under kate the filename is renamed to <number>_<number>_<real filename>.
[17:59] <__dan__> I can disable the lowest power-save mode but haven't felt the need
[18:03] <__dan__> rsd: I have no idea, I haven't used that functionality, if you don't get any joy here you could try checking the KDE bugtracker? https://bugs.kde.org/
[18:04] <rsd> __dan__, yep.  I will wait a little to see if it is a known bug
[18:09] <__dan__> rsd: I've just tried using Kate with a fish connection and it seems to be working fine
[18:11] <__dan__> rsd: how are you setting it up? i went to dolphin, add network folder, connected to the server, created a new text file using dolphin, then double clicked the file which opened up in kate, edited it and saved
[18:11] <__dan__> rsd: then confirmed the save by logging into the server via ssh and cat the file
[18:11] <rsd> __dan__, exactly that
[18:11] <rsd> only konqueror instead of dolphin
[18:12] <rsd> I noticed that some files open as before, but not all
[18:12] <__dan__> rsd: hmmm maybe try dolphin? also worth pointing out I'm running the backports PPA not the plain jane 15.04
[18:12] <rsd> me too, backport ppa
[18:12] <rsd> trying dolhin
[18:13] <est31> what again is the bug?
[18:13] <est31> perhaps this one https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=348551
[18:13] <__dan__> [18:59] <rsd> did something change in KIO SSH (fish/sftp) on kde5? Now, some remote file editing on kate appears under krun (instead of hostname) and saves are not uploaded back to the remote.  Under kate the filename is renamed to <number>_<number>_<real filename>.
[18:13] <est31> ok then not mine
[18:14] <rsd> __dan__, when it shows on kate, it displays the hostname or krun (left panel) as the parent?
[18:14] <__dan__> dup of 348436 est31?
[18:14] <__dan__> rsd: shows the hostname and the username
[18:15] <__dan__> [hostname]username
[18:15] <est31> thanks __dan__ its a dupe
[18:15] <__dan__> yw :)
[18:17] <rsd> https://www.dropbox.com/s/eu6ifex7zlfni3j/kate-error.jpg?dl=0
[18:18] <rsd> look at the Documents panel
[18:18] <rsd> there are both cases
[18:20] <__dan__> how odd ... I get the behaviour shown above
[18:20] <__dan__> did you open the above one with dolphin and the other one with konqueror?
[18:21] <rsd> it does not really matter
[18:21] <rsd> I think it is associated with the type of file
[18:21] <__dan__> hmmm so the behaviour is random regardless of file manager?
[18:22] <rsd> not random
[18:22] <__dan__> but they are both .sh files?
[18:22] <rsd> yes
[18:22] <rsd> but the ones that shows under 10.10.7.1 will always shown that way
[18:23] <rsd> the same to the krun ones
[18:23] <__dan__> ahhhh these are two separate servers?
[18:23] <rsd> so there must be some kind of triggering
[18:23] <rsd> same server
[18:23] <__dan__> im trying to figure out what makes those two files different
[18:23] <rsd> different paths, no permission issue
[18:23] <rsd> one is under /etc
[18:23] <rsd> the other /usr/local/bin
[18:24] <__dan__> you're sure the permissions are fine?
[18:25] <__dan__> ie. you can ssh in as that user and write to both of those files?
[18:25] <rsd> the ones in /etc does not have execution bit, but even removing it from the others, the result still the same
[18:25] <rsd> the /etc one does not have a shebang
[18:26] <rsd> I will remove it and try
[18:27] <rsd> it also happens with both sftp and fish kio
[18:28] <rsd> there is another behaviour difference.  The first case, kate opens and loads the file.  The second one, kde downloads the file and pass to kate
[18:28] <__dan__> i would be inclined to double check the owner and group of those files, make sure the user you're connecting with is definitely supposed to be writing to both the files, particularly the krun one
[18:28] <rsd> thats why kate does not know about it
[18:29] <rsd> 0755 both
[18:31] <rsd> I copied the working one from /etc to /usr/local and it still works fine.  It is content related I guess
[18:31] <rsd> some file association/content issue
[18:31] <__dan__> 0755 means only the owner of the file has write permissions though
[18:31] <__dan__> so if the user you're connecting with isn't the owner ...
[18:32] <rsd> I think I nailed it
[18:32] <rsd> it is the file name
[18:32] <rsd> I just renamed it to test.sh wnd it worked
[18:32] <rsd> let me findout where is the limitation
[18:32] <__dan__> wow really?
[18:32] <__dan__> mate that sounds like a bug report in the making ;)
[18:37] <rsd> can you try with a chroot-test.sh
[18:37] <rsd> this one seems to always open bad
[18:37] <rsd> when I rename to test.sh if goes right
[19:43] <Karmelo> Hi!
[20:12] <Etriaph> rhn: Plasma 5.3.1 is available in 15.04 through the backports PPA
[20:12] <rhn> using the daily PPA(https://community.kde.org/Kubuntu/PPAs#Daily_Snapshot_.28somewhat_stable.29) would give me plasma 5.3 or 5.2 ?
[20:13] <rhn> Etriaph: oaky, it's got nothing to do with the daily builds ?
[20:13] <rhn> and how stable/unstable is the backports PPA ?
[20:13] <Etriaph> If you use the daily builds you're likely in for some instability here and there
[20:13] <Etriaph> My desktop is just fine.
[20:14] <rhn> Etriaph: (excuse me if I'm being silly) what happens if I add both the PPA's ?
[20:15] <Etriaph> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1422687/snapshot1.png
[20:15] <Etriaph> That's a stable 15.04 with the backports PPA.
[20:15] <Etriaph> And 5.3.1
[20:16] <rhn> okay, the page's still loading :\
[20:16] <rhn> at the end of the day, all I need really, are the latest development packages
[20:17] <Etriaph> Well when you say latest, do you mean their cutting edge, or latest to develop with in this branch?
[20:17] <rhn> Etriaph: the backport PPA would serve that purpose fine right ?
[20:17] <Etriaph> I have no problem compiling Konversation and Basket from source
[20:17] <rhn> well, my project involves porting to kf5
[20:17] <Etriaph> I'm assuming I could develop whatever I want.
[20:18] <Etriaph> Oh, ya, this is a good platform for that.
[20:18] <Etriaph> 5.3.1 is rather new.
[20:18] <rhn> that's great to hear :)
[20:18] <Etriaph> Are you using a laptop or desktop PC?
[20:18] <rhn> yeah, newer than the daily unstable one I believe
[20:18] <rhn> I'm on a laptop
[20:18] <Etriaph> Which application are you porting?
[20:18] <rhn> kopete :D
[20:18] <Etriaph> Ah, I used Kopete for a loooong time :D
[20:19] <rhn> hahah, I knew it :P
[20:19] <rhn> there's still some kde3 in the kopete src :o
[20:19] <Etriaph> Ow
[20:19] <Etriaph> So it's a bit dated then :D
[20:20] <Etriaph> I'm sure the new frameworks will serve you well.
[20:20] <rhn> yes, very much so
[20:20] <Etriaph> Are you going to do any QML for the interface development?
[20:20] <rhn> nope, as of now there's no QML in kopete, and I haven't thought of adding QML just yet
[20:21] <rhn> but there are discusions going on
[20:21] <rhn> it could be brought in
[20:21] <Etriaph> I like software evolution.
[20:21] <rhn> :)
[20:22] <Etriaph> I need to learn to focus on one project, instead of trying to do 30 at once haha
[20:22] <rhn> lol :P
[20:23] <rhn> Etriaph: btw, would plasma 5.3 be available via the daily ppa after sometime ?
[20:23] <rhn> some days/weeks ?
[20:23] <Etriaph> But I think you'll be fine with the Kubuntu development environment.  Do you do the packaging for Kopete in Kubuntu?
[20:23] <rhn> nope, I'm only just getting started right now :)
[20:23] <rhn> I think Pali would know that well
[20:24] <rhn> he's the maintainer of the project AFAIK
[20:24] <Etriaph> rhn: Um, I wouldn't be the one to ask, you'd probably want to check of Riddell or sgclark, but you don't need to be using the daily PPA for Plasma 5.3.1, it's in 15.04 through backports.
[20:24] <Etriaph> So if you have 15.04 installed and are using the backports PPA, you're on 5.3.1
[20:25] <rhn> okay
[20:25] <Etriaph> I don't think you'd need the daily unless you were waiting for something upstream to become available.
[20:25] <rhn> what's been causing me confusion is the fact that the daily PPA's claim to be the latest - and latets is 5.3
[20:25] <rhn> *latest
[20:25] <Etriaph> Latest is 5.3.1
[20:26] <rhn> yeah, I was using the daily ppa on 14.10 and it had 5.2
[20:26] <Etriaph> Oh...
[20:26] <rhn> so that was my confusion, ideally it should've given me 5.3 right ?
[20:26] <Etriaph> Not necessarily.
[20:27] <Etriaph> 14.10 has different backports.
[20:27] <rhn> it was 5.2.90 to be precise ;)
[20:27] <rhn> oh I see
[20:27] <Etriaph> A sizable number of the apps are still KDE 4, so we're running hybrid in 15.04, but it's quite stable now.
[20:28] <rhn> so are you saying that using the live ppa on 15.04 could fetch me 5.3 ? - I'd like that since I also contribute to plasma-mediacenter which at times requires upstream packages :\
[20:28] <Etriaph> If you're considering doing KF5 development, you'd want to get on 15.04, 14.10 wouldn't be appropriate.
[20:28] <rhn> yes, but I'm confused between these two PPA's :P
[20:29] <rhn> 15.04 + daily PPA == 5.3 ??
[20:29] <Etriaph> 15.04 + Backports PPA == 5.3.1
[20:29] <rhn> I see :)
[20:30] <rhn> okay, let me go with the backports for the moment, I could always add the other PPA when required :)
[20:30] <Etriaph> Are you still running 14.10?
[20:30] <Etriaph> I just want to be clear if you are or not :D
[20:30] <rhn> I'm half way through upgrading to 15.04 from 14.10
[20:31] <rhn> packages have been fetched, it's now getting installed :)
[20:31] <Etriaph> Ah, OK.  I cross my fingers for you, sometimes upgrades go wrong.
[20:31] <rhn> oh no ! :\
[20:32] <rhn> we'll see how it goes, will take quite some time it seems :\
[20:32] <Etriaph> I usually download the image and reinstall, but save my home directory, instead of upgrading.
[20:32] <rhn> hey, upgrade doesn't cause you to lose data does it ?
[20:32] <Etriaph> I'm going to grab a coffee, I'm usually around so if you run into any issues ping me and we'll see what can be done.
[20:32] <rhn> the ~/ should be safe
[20:32] <rhn> that's great :)
[20:33] <Etriaph> Oh, ya
[20:33] <Etriaph> You won't lose / unless you also told it to format the drive :D
[20:33] <Etriaph> ~/ rather
[20:33] <rhn> good, I didn't do that :)
[20:34] <Etriaph> If you have to install, just tell it to replace the paths that it installs software to but to leave /home alone, there's an option for it.
[20:34] <Etriaph> bbiab
[20:55] <eXistenZe> hey guys.
[20:55] <eXistenZe> where can I find a crash course on how to install kvm on kubuntu 15?
[20:56] <eXistenZe> latest version on kvm howto is for ubuntu 7
[20:57] <__dan__> lol
[20:57] <__dan__> i did see a GUI program that was like virtualbox gui but for KVM
[20:57] <__dan__> I think it's a Gnome project
[21:00] <eXistenZe> hum... oooooook.
[21:01] <eXistenZe> I'll guess it's not a double click -> next -> next -> done like windows VMs...
[21:02] <__dan__> no idea tbh I've never used KVM
[21:03] <eXistenZe> "Most Linux distros already have KVM kernel modules and userspace tools available through their packaging systems. This is the easiest and recommended way of using KVM. "
[21:03] <eXistenZe> not in muon discover...
[21:03] <__dan__> https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Boxes
[21:03] <__dan__> thats the one I was thinking of, not sure it fits the bill tho
[21:04] <__dan__> tbh I just use virtualbox
[21:04] <__dan__> may not give anyone a nerdgasm but it's easy, cross-platform, fairly robust, and does the job
[21:05] <__dan__> also there is a great PHP front-end for headless operation called (imaginatively enough) phpVirtualBox
[21:06] <__dan__> http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Management_Tools
[21:06] <__dan__> maybe one of those would suit your needs
[21:07] <__dan__> that's written for Qt and seems to have a virtualbox-style interface http://sourceforge.net/projects/aqemu/
[21:08] <__dan__> if you're used to that already
[21:09] <__dan__> seems to be in the ubuntu repositories too, at least on this 14.04 machine
[21:11] <eXistenZe> oooooooooook...
[21:11] <eXistenZe> gonna need some reading in the next couple of days
[21:12] <eXistenZe> now I understand how win really is made for dummies
[21:13] <__dan__> mate if you're already comfortable with virtualbox, don't dismiss that as an option
[21:13] <eXistenZe> not confortable at anything
[21:13] <eXistenZe> never used any of them
[21:14] <__dan__> also with KVM, as I understand it, you will need to ensure your CPU supports virtualisation extensions, and that it's enabled in your BIOS
[21:14] <__dan__> whereas virtualbox runs on pretty much anything
[21:15] <__dan__> think you only need CPU virt support on vbox to run a 64-bit guest
[21:16] <__dan__> im no expert tho, never run KVM
[21:16] <eXistenZe> I have VT in my T9400
[21:17] <eXistenZe> only inclined to use KVM becaused it is the most recomended
[21:17] <eXistenZe> I only need it to run office 2013
[21:21] <Etriaph> LibreOffice ftw
[21:21] <__dan__> shouldn't be that difficult, if I had to do the same, I would be inclined to use virtualbox because it's almost certainly going to be the easiest to set up
[21:22] <__dan__> but then I have experience with virtualbox and not with KVM
[21:25] <__dan__> for instance, with virtualbox you get virtualbox additions for windows, which you install in the guest OS (guest = the OS you're running inside virtualbox) allowing better performance particularly in relation to graphics
[21:26] <eXistenZe> is there a difference in compatibility between x86 and x64 windows in vbox?
[21:26] <__dan__> so you install the guest OS, then install the additions which come with virtualbox, and suddenly your graphics perform well, you get nice stuff like shared clipboard, etc
[21:27] <Dry_Lips> Is there any way to add a global menu to the panel in Plasma 5? Such as this: http://agateau.com/2010/getting-menus-out-of-application-windows/appmenu-dolphin.png
[21:27] <__dan__> no, it will run both, but be aware that if you pick 64-bit windows, you can only ever run that VM on a machine with hardware VT support
[21:27] <eXistenZe> be right back
[21:36] <bprompt> Dry_Lips:     hmm what do you have in mind to add?
[21:39] <bprompt> Dry_Lips:    anyhow, yes, is doable, with a .desktop file
[21:41] <Dry_Lips> bprompt, I was thinking like this: http://www.webupd8.org/2013/02/how-to-enable-new-kde-410-appmenu-title.html
[21:41] <Dry_Lips> only using the panel like in the first screenshot
[21:42] <bprompt> ?
[21:42] <bprompt> you can add "actions" to the context menu for the file manager in kde
[21:45] <Dry_Lips> I was wondering if there's a way to make a Mac-like global menu that works across GTK and QT apps
[21:47] <bprompt> well... bear in mind that macOS relies on only one window manager, "finder" IIRC, so it becomes "global" per se, since it's only one wm, whilst when using more than one, then each will have their own settings separate from others
[21:48] <bprompt> if you were on a macOSX and running two separate window managers, you'd run on the same things as with gtk or qt file managers
[21:52] <Dry_Lips> bprompt, I'm looking for something like this, only for KDE / Plasma 5... http://www.webupd8.org/2015/05/global-menu-applet-for-cinnamon-desktop.html
[21:54] <__dan__> ya i know what you mean Dry_Lips, like the netbook mode on KDE 4, i dont see that option on KDE 5 at the moment
[21:55] <Dry_Lips> Ah, that's too bad... I hope that something like this comes sooner or later
[21:55] <__dan__> yeah i believe a lot of the widgets and stuff are still due to be released
[21:55] <__dan__> but can't comment on whether we will see a comeback of the global menu
[21:55] <__dan__> would be nice to see though, not every machine has an abundance of pixels :)
[21:56] <Dry_Lips> Yeah, and personally I prefer a top panel plus a dock...
[21:57] <Dry_Lips> A global panel is a nice touch to a top panel + dock setup
[21:57] <__dan__> to be honest I haven't felt the need to customise KDE 5 all that much
[21:58] <Dry_Lips> Well, KDE 5 is nice, no doubt about that
[21:58] <bprompt> hmm
[21:58] <bprompt> doesn't kde4 have a netbook mode?  pretty sure it does
[21:58] <__dan__> trimmed down the fat title bar a bit, changed to double-click instead of single-click, green on black konsole with transparency, that kind of thing
[21:58] <bprompt> I've used it a little on a netbook install, not enough to notice any global menus though
[21:58] <__dan__> kde4 does yeah
[21:59] <bprompt> ohhh is a kde5 issue I see
[22:00] <__dan__> yeah doesn't look like that stuff has come out the oven yet
[22:00] <__dan__> but I'm sure they're busy baking it - it's still fairly early days for KDE 5
[22:05] <Dry_Lips> Btw, I'm not really experienced with KDE... I've noticed that using other window decorations than breeze often crashes plasma... Is this a KDE 5 issue?
[22:06] <__dan__> couldn't tell you mate, like I say I haven't strayed far from the defaults yet
[22:07] <__dan__> i did notice the dark theme still has some oddities, unreadable text in certain situations, so i switched back to the default one
[22:07] <Dry_Lips> Same here...
[22:12] <__dan__> it was always going to be like this, 15.04 really is for those of us who have to have the latest whizz bang now
[22:13] <__dan__> and if it's a good early indication, the next LTS, 16.04, will be legendary
[22:14] <bprompt> one may note that "new" means "new", not necessarily good, just new, expectedly better, but necessarily better, just "new",  good and new, aren't mutually inclusive
[22:14] <__dan__> hehe true :)
[22:15] <__dan__> but to get good sometimes you have to persevere with new for a while ;)
[22:17] <bprompt> well... if you're beta testing.. then that's expectable, and things "not working" should be expected
[22:19] <__dan__> mate I've been using computers for 30 years, things not working is par for the course haha
[22:20] <__dan__> i see your point though, to be honest if i want 100% dependability i would be inclined to stick to the LTS
[22:21] <__dan__> this machine is 14.04, i have another laptop that is on 15.04 with the backports PPA, but that has a glorious screen that i just had to see running KDE 5, and i'm glad i did :)
[23:11] <vbgunz> anyone know why colorschemes in kde 5 (backports) are so finnicky to downright unreliable to apply?
[23:11] <vbgunz> anyone know how to fix it?