| derekv | I'm really not falling in love with ansible | 01:00 |
|---|---|---|
| derekv | it's been very frustrating to work with | 01:00 |
| cmaloney | Its pretty particular on how you organize things. | 01:07 |
| derekv | it feels like i'm trying to deploy a cluster by holding my hands over my eyes, and copy-pasting shell scripts I randomly find on the internet together and hoping it runs | 01:10 |
| derekv | which I think is pretty close to how this works | 01:10 |
| derekv | I have yet to have a singe thing just work without a fight after the first "ping" command | 01:11 |
| derekv | my favorite feature right now is how if a command never exits, you also never get to see it's output | 01:12 |
| derekv | e.g. if a command unexpectedly asks for user input, you'll never know why. it just hangs. | 01:20 |
| cmaloney | Yeah, that can be a pain in the ass | 01:21 |
| cmaloney | but it's not quite that bad. | 01:21 |
| cmaloney | I've been able to deploy things wouthout out too much difficulty. | 01:22 |
| cmaloney | There's definitely a learning curve though | 01:22 |
| derekv | i'm going to try chef next as a point of comparison | 01:22 |
| cmaloney | Ther'es dome good books on Ansible as well | 01:23 |
| derekv | but this blows dude. i lost count of how many infuriating things i've had to figure out. | 01:24 |
| jrwren | derekv: ^5, we can start an ansible apathy club. | 01:48 |
| jrwren | tagline: ansible: I don't see what the fuss is about. | 01:49 |
| cscheib | derekv: feel free to drop into the Puppet user group I run some time if you wanna learn about Puppet... search Detroit Puppet User Group on meetup.com for our meeting announcements and such | 01:50 |
| derekv | i'm about to start a "big shell script" user group | 01:51 |
| derekv | =P | 01:51 |
| derekv | i'm sour right now. | 01:51 |
| jrwren | big shell scripts are the best. | 01:55 |
| jrwren | its really sad what hoops people will jump through to avoid big bash. | 01:55 |
| cscheib | eh, shell scripts are ok for smaller tasks | 01:59 |
| jrwren | I'll write everything in shell | 01:59 |
| jrwren | fork multiple ones, have the talking ot each other. | 01:59 |
| jrwren | bash4 has a hash type. | 01:59 |
| cscheib | derekv: https://github.com/brandonhilkert/fucking_shell_scripts | 02:00 |
| jrwren | that said, I did find fabric rather useful | 02:00 |
| jrwren | hahaha, nice. | 02:00 |
| jrwren | the best config management tool is not using a config mgmt tool. | 02:01 |
| jrwren | manage system images like cattle, not pets. | 02:01 |
| cscheib | yes, most config management tools allow you to do just that, if you set things up properly | 02:02 |
| jrwren | ha! | 02:02 |
| jrwren | why set anyting up? | 02:02 |
| jrwren | just do it. | 02:02 |
| jrwren | don't need config | 02:02 |
| cscheib | cuz some people live in the real world | 02:02 |
| jrwren | right. | 02:02 |
| jrwren | the world changes. | 02:03 |
| cmaloney | Hey now, Ansible is pretty cool | 02:03 |
| cmaloney | I'm really enjoying how it works. | 02:03 |
| cmaloney | I don't thnink you can appreciate how it works if you just try to copy / paste playbooks from the net. | 02:03 |
| cmaloney | THat's not going to get you anywhere. | 02:03 |
| cmaloney | You need to understand what it's trying to do and how it does that effectively. | 02:03 |
| cscheib | indeed | 02:04 |
| cmaloney | Otherwise no config management is going to work | 02:04 |
| cscheib | you definitely need to know your shit, it's not a shortcut to knowing a software stack | 02:04 |
| cmaloney | Nope | 02:05 |
| cmaloney | None of them are. | 02:05 |
| cmaloney | They'll just bury your non-knowledge into a shaky foundation | 02:05 |
| jrwren | nothing is | 02:05 |
| derekv | i feel like i get it | 03:27 |
| derekv | it's trying to do thing "idempotently". however I see that as a pipe dream. | 03:27 |
| derekv | no way your going to manage machines with shell script in a way that is really idempotent | 03:28 |
| derekv | but what killed it for me was how difficult it was making it to debug what was happening | 03:29 |
| derekv | chef or puppet might be worse for all I know | 03:30 |
| derekv | I want to build system images in a deterministic way by running scripts on top of snapshots, and then deploy these with the a minimum configuration difference between instances (ports, hostnames, keys) | 03:33 |
| derekv | if I'm never going to modify a running instance, then it wouldn't matter how I ran those scripts | 03:33 |
| derekv | problem is, not really sure how to do that with data | 03:34 |
| derekv | stupid data, making everything complicated. | 03:34 |
| mrgoodcat | so apparently you can now get facebook to pgp encrypt emails they send you https://www.facebook.com/notes/protecting-the-graph/securing-email-communications-from-facebook/1611941762379302 | 12:44 |
| cmaloney | Good morning | 12:52 |
| mrgoodcat | happy free speech day :) | 13:07 |
| mrgoodcat | for at least today the NSA is no longer allowed to collect your data en masse | 13:07 |
| cmaloney | For now | 13:08 |
| mrgoodcat | for now | 13:09 |
| mrgoodcat | and the cynic in me tells me there are probably workarounds they are trying to use | 13:09 |
| cmaloney | If those workarounds include getting an actual warrant from an actual judge then I'm OK with it. | 13:10 |
| wolfger | raise your hand if you think anything actually changed other than the legality of what they are doing. | 13:19 |
| _stink_ | *crickets* | 13:24 |
| cmaloney | heh | 13:26 |
| phwelo | gm folks | 13:41 |
| cmaloney | Good morning | 13:42 |
| greg-g | "Tough anti-smoking measures have gone into effect in the Chinese capital, where smoking is now banned in restaurants, offices and on public transport." that's not what I would consider "tough" | 15:59 |
| greg-g | http://www.sky105.com/2015/06/beijing-bans-smoking-in-public-starting_1.html | 15:59 |
| cscheib | derekv: I dunno, that sounds exactly like the problem config mgmt is designed to solve. Are you sure no one's going to modify a running instance once it's up? Are your systems truly throwaway? What happens if DNS changes, etc... Also, keep in mind there're things like rspec-puppet that make it fairly simple to unit test your script/code | 16:06 |
| cscheib | derekv: (I tend to mention puppet specific things, as that's what I'm familiar with in etail) | 16:08 |
| cscheib | *detail | 16:08 |
| derekv | cscheib: I have a lot to learn. it's greenfield, so I can learn in stages | 16:53 |
| cmaloney | I'm playing with Ansible roles righ tnow | 16:57 |
| cmaloney | they're pretty interesting in how they work | 16:57 |
| phwelo | cmaloney: are you looking at Ansible for servers or networking equipment? I thought the possibilities to automate networking tasks were pretty cool there | 17:13 |
| cmaloney | phwelo: Servers mostly. | 17:13 |
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