derekvI'm really not falling in love with ansible01:00
derekvit's been very frustrating to work with01:00
cmaloneyIts pretty particular on how you organize things.01:07
derekvit feels like i'm trying to deploy a cluster by holding my hands over my eyes, and copy-pasting shell scripts I randomly find on the internet together and hoping it runs01:10
derekvwhich I think is pretty close to how this works01:10
derekvI have yet to have a singe thing just work without a fight after the first "ping" command01:11
derekvmy favorite feature right now is how if a command never exits, you also never get to see it's output01:12
derekve.g. if a command unexpectedly asks for user input, you'll never know why.  it just hangs.01:20
cmaloneyYeah, that can be a pain in the ass01:21
cmaloneybut it's not quite that bad.01:21
cmaloneyI've been able to deploy things wouthout out too much difficulty.01:22
cmaloneyThere's definitely a learning curve though01:22
derekvi'm going to try chef next as a point of comparison01:22
cmaloneyTher'es dome good books on Ansible as well01:23
derekvbut this blows dude.  i lost count of how many infuriating things i've had to figure out.01:24
jrwrenderekv: ^5, we can start an ansible apathy club.01:48
jrwrentagline: ansible: I don't see what the fuss is about.01:49
cscheibderekv: feel free to drop into the Puppet user group I run some time if you wanna learn about Puppet... search Detroit Puppet User Group on meetup.com for our meeting announcements and such01:50
derekvi'm about to start a "big shell script" user group01:51
derekvi'm sour right now.01:51
jrwrenbig shell scripts are the best.01:55
jrwrenits really sad what hoops people will jump through to avoid big bash.01:55
cscheibeh, shell scripts are ok for smaller tasks01:59
jrwrenI'll write everything in shell01:59
jrwrenfork multiple ones, have the talking ot each other.01:59
jrwrenbash4 has a hash type.01:59
cscheibderekv: https://github.com/brandonhilkert/fucking_shell_scripts02:00
jrwrenthat said, I did find fabric rather useful02:00
jrwrenhahaha, nice.02:00
jrwrenthe best config management tool is not using a config mgmt tool.02:01
jrwrenmanage system images like cattle, not pets.02:01
cscheibyes, most config management tools allow you to do just that, if you set things up properly02:02
jrwrenwhy set anyting up?02:02
jrwrenjust do it.02:02
jrwrendon't need config02:02
cscheibcuz some people live in the real world02:02
jrwrenthe world changes.02:03
cmaloneyHey now,  Ansible is pretty cool02:03
cmaloneyI'm really enjoying how it works.02:03
cmaloneyI don't thnink you can appreciate how it works if you just try to copy / paste playbooks from the net.02:03
cmaloneyTHat's not going to get you anywhere.02:03
cmaloneyYou need to understand what it's trying to do and how it does that effectively.02:03
cmaloneyOtherwise no config management is going to work02:04
cscheibyou definitely need to know your shit, it's not a shortcut to knowing a software stack02:04
cmaloneyNone of them are.02:05
cmaloneyThey'll just bury your non-knowledge into a shaky foundation02:05
jrwrennothing is02:05
derekvi feel like i get it03:27
derekvit's trying to do thing "idempotently".  however I see that as a pipe dream.03:27
derekvno way your going to manage machines with shell script in a way that is really idempotent03:28
derekvbut what killed it for me was how difficult it was making it to debug what was happening03:29
derekvchef or puppet might be worse for all I know03:30
derekvI want to build system images in a deterministic way by running scripts on top of snapshots, and then deploy these with the a minimum configuration difference between instances (ports, hostnames, keys)03:33
derekvif I'm never going to modify a running instance, then it wouldn't matter how I ran those scripts03:33
derekvproblem is, not really sure how to do that with data03:34
derekvstupid data, making everything complicated.03:34
mrgoodcatso apparently you can now get facebook to pgp encrypt emails they send you https://www.facebook.com/notes/protecting-the-graph/securing-email-communications-from-facebook/161194176237930212:44
cmaloneyGood morning12:52
mrgoodcathappy free speech day :)13:07
mrgoodcatfor at least today the NSA is no longer allowed to collect your data en masse13:07
cmaloneyFor now13:08
mrgoodcatfor now13:09
mrgoodcatand the cynic in me tells me there are probably workarounds they are trying to use13:09
cmaloneyIf those workarounds include getting an actual warrant from an actual judge then I'm OK with it.13:10
wolfgerraise your hand if you think anything actually changed other than the legality of what they are doing.13:19
phwelogm folks13:41
cmaloneyGood morning13:42
greg-g"Tough anti-smoking measures have gone into effect in the Chinese capital, where smoking is now banned in restaurants, offices and on public transport." that's not what I would consider "tough"15:59
cscheibderekv: I dunno, that sounds exactly like the problem config mgmt is designed to solve.  Are you sure no one's going to modify a running instance once it's up?  Are your systems truly throwaway?  What happens if DNS changes, etc... Also, keep in mind there're things like rspec-puppet that make it fairly simple to unit test your script/code16:06
cscheibderekv: (I tend to mention puppet specific things, as that's what I'm familiar with in etail)16:08
derekvcscheib: I have a lot to learn.  it's greenfield, so I can learn in stages16:53
cmaloneyI'm playing with Ansible roles righ tnow16:57
cmaloneythey're pretty interesting in how they work16:57
phwelocmaloney: are you looking at Ansible for servers or networking equipment?  I thought the possibilities to automate networking tasks were pretty cool there17:13
cmaloneyphwelo: Servers mostly.17:13

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