[01:00] I'm really not falling in love with ansible [01:00] it's been very frustrating to work with [01:07] Its pretty particular on how you organize things. [01:10] it feels like i'm trying to deploy a cluster by holding my hands over my eyes, and copy-pasting shell scripts I randomly find on the internet together and hoping it runs [01:10] which I think is pretty close to how this works [01:11] I have yet to have a singe thing just work without a fight after the first "ping" command [01:12] my favorite feature right now is how if a command never exits, you also never get to see it's output [01:20] e.g. if a command unexpectedly asks for user input, you'll never know why. it just hangs. [01:21] Yeah, that can be a pain in the ass [01:21] but it's not quite that bad. [01:22] I've been able to deploy things wouthout out too much difficulty. [01:22] There's definitely a learning curve though [01:22] i'm going to try chef next as a point of comparison [01:23] Ther'es dome good books on Ansible as well [01:24] but this blows dude. i lost count of how many infuriating things i've had to figure out. [01:48] derekv: ^5, we can start an ansible apathy club. [01:49] tagline: ansible: I don't see what the fuss is about. [01:50] derekv: feel free to drop into the Puppet user group I run some time if you wanna learn about Puppet... search Detroit Puppet User Group on meetup.com for our meeting announcements and such [01:51] i'm about to start a "big shell script" user group [01:51] =P [01:51] i'm sour right now. [01:55] big shell scripts are the best. [01:55] its really sad what hoops people will jump through to avoid big bash. [01:59] eh, shell scripts are ok for smaller tasks [01:59] I'll write everything in shell [01:59] fork multiple ones, have the talking ot each other. [01:59] bash4 has a hash type. [02:00] derekv: https://github.com/brandonhilkert/fucking_shell_scripts [02:00] that said, I did find fabric rather useful [02:00] hahaha, nice. [02:01] the best config management tool is not using a config mgmt tool. [02:01] manage system images like cattle, not pets. [02:02] yes, most config management tools allow you to do just that, if you set things up properly [02:02] ha! [02:02] why set anyting up? [02:02] just do it. [02:02] don't need config [02:02] cuz some people live in the real world [02:02] right. [02:03] the world changes. [02:03] Hey now, Ansible is pretty cool [02:03] I'm really enjoying how it works. [02:03] I don't thnink you can appreciate how it works if you just try to copy / paste playbooks from the net. [02:03] THat's not going to get you anywhere. [02:03] You need to understand what it's trying to do and how it does that effectively. [02:04] indeed [02:04] Otherwise no config management is going to work [02:04] you definitely need to know your shit, it's not a shortcut to knowing a software stack [02:05] Nope [02:05] None of them are. [02:05] They'll just bury your non-knowledge into a shaky foundation [02:05] nothing is [03:27] i feel like i get it [03:27] it's trying to do thing "idempotently". however I see that as a pipe dream. [03:28] no way your going to manage machines with shell script in a way that is really idempotent [03:29] but what killed it for me was how difficult it was making it to debug what was happening [03:30] chef or puppet might be worse for all I know [03:33] I want to build system images in a deterministic way by running scripts on top of snapshots, and then deploy these with the a minimum configuration difference between instances (ports, hostnames, keys) [03:33] if I'm never going to modify a running instance, then it wouldn't matter how I ran those scripts [03:34] problem is, not really sure how to do that with data [03:34] stupid data, making everything complicated. [12:44] so apparently you can now get facebook to pgp encrypt emails they send you https://www.facebook.com/notes/protecting-the-graph/securing-email-communications-from-facebook/1611941762379302 [12:52] Good morning [13:07] happy free speech day :) [13:07] for at least today the NSA is no longer allowed to collect your data en masse [13:08] For now [13:09] for now [13:09] and the cynic in me tells me there are probably workarounds they are trying to use [13:10] If those workarounds include getting an actual warrant from an actual judge then I'm OK with it. [13:19] raise your hand if you think anything actually changed other than the legality of what they are doing. [13:24] <_stink_> *crickets* [13:26] heh [13:41] gm folks [13:42] Good morning [15:59] "Tough anti-smoking measures have gone into effect in the Chinese capital, where smoking is now banned in restaurants, offices and on public transport." that's not what I would consider "tough" [15:59] http://www.sky105.com/2015/06/beijing-bans-smoking-in-public-starting_1.html [16:06] derekv: I dunno, that sounds exactly like the problem config mgmt is designed to solve. Are you sure no one's going to modify a running instance once it's up? Are your systems truly throwaway? What happens if DNS changes, etc... Also, keep in mind there're things like rspec-puppet that make it fairly simple to unit test your script/code [16:08] derekv: (I tend to mention puppet specific things, as that's what I'm familiar with in etail) [16:08] *detail [16:53] cscheib: I have a lot to learn. it's greenfield, so I can learn in stages [16:57] I'm playing with Ansible roles righ tnow [16:57] they're pretty interesting in how they work [17:13] cmaloney: are you looking at Ansible for servers or networking equipment? I thought the possibilities to automate networking tasks were pretty cool there [17:13] phwelo: Servers mostly.