[00:09] <zmoylan-pi> cat v fox on kittykam https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9j38UmSYjClWHFXYXo5TU1TS3M/view?usp=sharing
[00:14] <daftykins> :O
[00:14] <daftykins> who won?
[00:16] <zmoylan-pi> i think the fox has eaten 1-2 kittens but one of the bigger battle moggies has torn strips off the fox from the sound of the fights i've heard and the moggie is still around while fox is rarer these days
[06:19] <kjvarley> Interesting problem. Hosts file redirect of pseudo-domain name to localhost works in Firefox but not in Chrome...Any ideas ?
[06:27] <kjvarley> Got it
[06:27] <kjvarley> Was using domain.localhost as a vhost which causes conflict
[07:07] <MooDoo> howdy all
[07:07] <SuperMatt> morning
[08:43] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[08:54] <popey> yo
[08:59] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Hug Your Cat Day! 😃
[09:02] <foobarry> and get scratched
[09:03] <zmoylan-pi> well if you know your cat you'll know what times of the day you can sneak up, hug the little beggar and make a non bloody getaway :-)
[09:04] <popey> one of ours is so soppy, you can pick him up and hold him upside down in your arms like a baby
[09:05]  * zmoylan-pi remembers my father giving a cat in the 70s a pill while wearing heavy motorbike gloves and the cat managing to scratch his hand THROUGH the leather of those gloves...
[09:10] <Laney> want to get a cat
[09:10] <Laney> would need to replace burglar alarm system though :'(
[09:11] <shauno> your alarm is an angry dog?
[09:11] <zmoylan-pi> just give the cat the pin code :-)
[09:11] <JamesTait> Laney, there are ones that are advertised as pet-safe. YMMV.
[09:12] <Laney> That's what I mean, I stupidly got a non pet safe one
[09:12] <Laney> it was only 6 months ago too
[09:12] <zmoylan-pi> what feature of it is not petsafe?
[09:13] <Laney> it would be triggered by a pet moving around
[09:13] <TwistedLucidity> zmoylan-pi: It'll trip when it sees the cat, rather than ignore low/small movements.
[09:13] <zmoylan-pi> that can be disabled by a reprogramming, get a quote on how much it would cost
[09:14] <popey> i thought they all had sensitivity settings
[09:14] <TwistedLucidity> I am pretty sure our ancient one does not.
[09:14] <Laney> not that I know about anyway
[09:14] <TwistedLucidity> But then it is ancient.
[09:14] <zmoylan-pi> i know when i worked with alarm box installers in 90s that they were starting to be able to reprogram the alarms remotely to save on visits to out of the way places
[09:14] <TwistedLucidity> At least it's wired though.
[09:14] <Laney> maybe a Man™ would be able to
[09:15] <TwistedLucidity> Laney: Would need an installation manual, often hard to find in public.
[09:15] <Laney> the brochure talks about it but I have the feeling that it is a different kind of sensor
[09:15] <popey> i remember seeing a WatchDog (or some other program) where this conman installer would put alarms in with an added timer circuit which would trip after the warranty expired, and make the alarm break.
[09:15] <JamesTait> popey, I think the pet-safe ones are kind of zonal as well, so the lower part of the sensor is less sensitive than the upper part. At least that's how I understood what the fitter was telling me.
[09:15] <popey> People would call him, he'd reset the counter
[09:16] <popey> I should consider an alarm at some point
[09:16] <popey> not been any burglaries round here for years :S
[09:16] <Laney> oh god
[09:16] <popey> maybe we're due one
[09:16] <Laney> you said it
[09:16] <popey> hah
[09:18] <TwistedLucidity> Our alarm went wonk a while back. We walked around the streets and did a small census of the alarms we could see. Then called the company most people seemed to use.
[09:18] <TwistedLucidity> All it needed was a new battery....
[09:19] <shauno> I still think they're largely pointless
[09:19] <zmoylan-pi> their job is not to stop breakins but make the robber go to your nearest neighbour WITHOUT an alarm
[09:19] <TwistedLucidity> In truth, they probably are. But if our place is riskier than the neighbours'...which one will they go for
[09:20] <TwistedLucidity> Same reason we switched the locks to ones marked "anti-bump/anti-snap". It just causing hassle for them.
[09:20] <TwistedLucidity> Although 30+kg of enraged dog does that as well....
[09:21] <popey> nice and sunny today
[09:21] <TwistedLucidity> Yeah, looking good for the w/end
[09:22] <shauno> I think my concern is that I've never known anyone who calls the police when an alarm goes off.  they just turn the TV up
[09:22] <popey> bbq weather
[09:23] <zmoylan-pi> that's why you pay for monitoring so a central station calls plod
[09:23] <popey> it's handy having a plod living in the road, even if he's "only" a dog handler
[09:23]  * zmoylan-pi used to fix the pcs in the central station bunkers.  twas fun seeing the doors on those places
[09:24] <popey> means his plod car is often here
[09:24] <zmoylan-pi> and i also got to write the software that /decoded/ the signals coming in on the leased line from all the burgalar alarms in ireland
[09:25] <TwistedLucidity> if <person I dislike> then router=ignore
[09:25] <zmoylan-pi> in vb... :-D
[09:25] <TwistedLucidity> 5 or 6?
[09:25] <zmoylan-pi> 4!
[09:26] <TwistedLucidity> Poor sod
[09:26] <zmoylan-pi> i got it working and it ran without been restarted for years.  that took effort
[09:27] <TwistedLucidity> If Firefox suggests "Reader view" one more time, I may do something unspeakable to it....
[09:28] <TwistedLucidity> And it doesn't even work on the site where it suggests it. HAH!
[09:28] <TwistedLucidity> FF is really going downhill these days....
[09:28] <zmoylan-pi> as is chrome, opera...
[09:29] <zmoylan-pi> i use midori these days most of the time.  terrible but less annoying
[09:29] <awilkins> The kind of feature creep you get when your product does what it was designed for really really well
[09:29] <awilkins> And you have a big successful dev team who now have nothing to do
[09:29] <awilkins> Except fix really trivial stupid bugs
[09:30] <shauno> then keep a couple around to fix big, and send the rest off to make their mail client stop sucking :)
[09:31] <awilkins> Oh crikey yes, Thunderbird neesd an update
[09:31] <awilkins> Needs to do label support like Gmail does
[09:33] <shauno> thunderbird doesn't just need an update, it needs to be taken out back and shot
[09:33] <zmoylan-pi> ^this
[09:33] <zmoylan-pi> it's reached critical stupidity
[09:34] <awilkins> It's not that bad, surely
[09:34] <awilkins> My main gripes with it are to do with the calendar stuff
[09:34] <zmoylan-pi> when i read a lot of people talking online about using evolution as thunderbird is just so bad these days...
[09:34] <awilkins> But they are mostly Microsoft's fault for being annoying
[09:35] <awilkins> I *hate* evolution
[09:35] <zmoylan-pi> these people hate evolution too but use it as it's less annoying than thunderbird...
[09:35] <awilkins> It disgusts me even that Unity uses it's backend to integrate the calendar into the desktop
[09:36] <shauno> I used to like evolution, way way back when
[09:37] <shauno> gave up on it when the prefs dialog stopped fitting on my monitor, and never found my way back
[09:43] <TwistedLucidity> I use Thunderbird daily, it's the best email client on GNU/Linux IMHO
[09:43] <TwistedLucidity> Well, GUI email client.
[09:43] <foobarry> geary?
[09:44] <foobarry> doesn't get mentioned much
[09:44] <TwistedLucidity> Does that do CardDAV and CalDAV like Thunderbird?
[09:44] <foobarry> geary is more lightweight
[09:44] <foobarry> but nice UI
[09:45] <TwistedLucidity> I use Thunderbird as a PIM as well as a mail client.
[09:45] <zmoylan-pi> doesn't geary have inflexible ui?
[09:45] <TwistedLucidity> So I need that DAV support to get appointments etc sync'd
[09:51] <TwistedLucidity> I'd like to try KMail seeing as I use KDE, but it seems it randomly deletes emails.
[09:51] <TwistedLucidity> Or so I'm told
[09:53] <zmoylan-pi> is it up to government standard of losing emails? :-)
[09:57] <TwistedLucidity> Or certain newspapers....
[10:00] <TwistedLucidity> Seems that get_iplayer has been updated after the BBC broke everything again.
[10:00] <foobarry> also youtube_dl works i think
[10:01] <TwistedLucidity> Why Auntie can't support iPlayer on GNU/Linux or Kodi is beyond me.
[10:01] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: The Beeb changed the APIs a couple of days ago
[10:02] <TwistedLucidity> Or, better yet, let the community get on with it. The Kodi iPlayer plugin worked really, really well. All it needed was the BBC to stop acting so heavy-handed
[10:02] <zmoylan-pi> and the odds of that are...
[10:02] <awilkins> The BBC don't like people downloading iPlayer stuff
[10:03] <awilkins> :-(
[10:03] <awilkins> Or rather, their content partners don't
[10:06] <TwistedLucidity> awilkins: The Kodi iPlayer does not permit downloads. The developer made it very clear they would not offer that feature
[10:06] <TwistedLucidity> They were trying to play fair, which is admirable
[10:06] <TwistedLucidity> get_iplayer on the other hand......
[10:06] <TwistedLucidity> And these projects only existed because the BBC left a vacuum.
[10:07] <TwistedLucidity> They are happy enough to support closed-systems like iOS and Facebook...so our license fee goes to support that; rather than support *us*
[10:08] <TwistedLucidity> Like Netflix (other streaming services are availbale) and copyright infringement, if you provide a service people can actually use; they stop looking for alternatives.
[10:08] <TwistedLucidity> I'm mostly irritated because I was halfway through "Buried" when it all went AWOL. :-(
[10:09] <zmoylan-pi> to management in beeb ios IS mobile.  facebook IS email
[10:09] <TwistedLucidity> Unfortunately true
[10:09] <TwistedLucidity> I wonder if iPlayer can be made to run under WINE.....
[10:10] <shauno> ios rant seems wildly of-base, tbh
[10:10] <zmoylan-pi> and the rest of us are hoodie wearing evil hackers trying to take down apple and facebook in glow of our screens at night...
[10:11] <TwistedLucidity> shauno: Not really. BBC is funded by what is in essence a tax. I have every right to be annoyed when that goes to support walled-gardens instead of openness.
[10:11] <zmoylan-pi> the beebs mandate is to educate and inform but they choose ios over any other platform when it is the platform least used by the poor
[10:11] <shauno> iplayer's on android & ios.  between the two they make up 95%+ of the smartphone market.
[10:12] <TwistedLucidity> I'd also argue that it runs counter to the IT education aims.
[10:12] <TwistedLucidity> shauno: Indeed. And it's on Windows and OS X too. So why not on GNU/Linux or the likes of Kodi? As if said before, the Beeb don't need to write the code; just not be heavy handed.
[10:13] <shauno> I'm just saying that as far as return for the money goes, they're on exactly the platforms I'd expect them to be on
[10:13] <shauno> rather than going the 'open' route and having 7 users paid for by 6 million.
[10:14] <foobarry> linux are teh 1%
[10:14] <TwistedLucidity> So don't pay, just stop making life hard for the community
[10:18] <foobarry> they wanted to make it even worse
[10:19] <foobarry> but were blocked from doing so
[10:19] <foobarry> something about encrpyting all their streams
[10:19] <TwistedLucidity> Well....this is amusing http://ipd-hq.api.bbc.co.uk/latest/linux
[10:20] <TwistedLucidity> foobarry: Yup, that will be forced from the media companies. That have this bizarre idea that making legal use hard is somehow going to help
[10:21] <TwistedLucidity> And this does exist http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/tv/computer/linux/
[10:22] <TwistedLucidity> Hmmm....
[10:23] <TwistedLucidity> And they say the test on Linux-based (Ubuntu 11 in this case) browsers; that's more than most I guess
[10:25] <m8ty> Hi all
[10:25] <popey> At once point the BBC actually hired a guy to fight back against get_iplayer
[10:25] <popey> his job was to make get_iplayer not work
[10:25] <foobarry> wow
[10:25] <popey> He has since moved on (works at facebook now iirc)
[10:25] <TwistedLucidity> See - it's that kind of thing.....
[10:25] <foobarry> heh
[10:26] <m8ty> get_iplayer still works and well  luckily
[10:26] <TwistedLucidity> It just got an update to cope with the latest breakage
[10:26] <popey> which is ridiculous given bbc redux, where they store all programmes from all terrestrial channels and allow for a small set of people to download them with no drm on any platform over http
[10:27] <TwistedLucidity> Hmm?
[10:27] <shauno> iplayer doesn't allow indefinite downloads on any platform.  I don't get the "but we're special" rant at all.  I think people forget get_iplayer's a hack.
[10:28] <m8ty> Has nayone had an issue where Toshiba "chicony " webcam being detected and confgigured as keyboard hence doesn't work????
[10:28] <TwistedLucidity> I'm not saying "we're special". I am saying the BBC is playing a stupid game, and wasting the money I pay them.
[10:29] <m8ty> I don't seem to find a fix on my Toshiba Sat c 855
[10:30] <TwistedLucidity> It wouldn't be beyond their capabilities to *stop* being total sods to Kodi iPlayer (which does not permit downloads). Gives them good PR, expands their reach, cost is trivial.
[10:30] <TwistedLucidity> I understand their hatred for get_iplayer, but that only exists because of the vacuum left when the BBC ditch GNU/Linux support.
[10:31] <TwistedLucidity> They write/sanction apps for Smart TVs. Writing/sanctioning the Kodi plugin is not a great leap.
[10:32] <foobarry> i wish there was a similar hack for 4od
[10:32] <foobarry> which doesn't even work wotih chromecast!!
[10:32] <TwistedLucidity> Don't 4od put all their stuff on YouTube?
[10:32] <foobarry> no
[10:32] <TwistedLucidity> And there used to be a Kodi plugin for that as well
[10:32] <foobarry> used to
[10:32] <TwistedLucidity> Ah, OK
[10:45] <TwistedLucidity> Interesting.....
[10:45] <TwistedLucidity> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/06/04/eu_competition_watchdog_snarls_at_hollywood_eyes_fines/
[10:46] <zmoylan-pi> this will all be blocked with tpp as it would be hurting the business of hollywood companies
[10:47] <TwistedLucidity> TPP is the pacific one innit? Aren't we getting infected with TTIP?
[10:47] <Myrtti> get-iplayer ♥
[10:47] <TwistedLucidity> And then there's TISA
[10:47] <zmoylan-pi> they're all spawn of the same corporations
[10:49] <TwistedLucidity> Your freedom will be packaged and sold back to you. This is for your benefit, citizen.
[10:50] <bashrc_> those trade agreements are really antidemocratic
[10:51] <zmoylan-pi> the un has said so recently
[10:51] <TwistedLucidity> They are going to happen. There is no way to stop it.
[10:53] <zmoylan-pi> if the americans thought prohibition was bad...
[10:54] <bashrc_> there's some sort of rule whereby corporations can sue governments if they don't do what they're told
[10:54] <bashrc_> it's really an indication of who actually holds power
[10:54] <TwistedLucidity> bashrc_: Which is ridiculous
[10:55] <TwistedLucidity> Corporations are not people. If they were, we could jail them for illegal acts.
[11:27] <intrbiz> TwistedLucidity: a company is still a legal entity, rather than 'jailed' they can be shutdown
[11:27] <zmoylan-pi> but that almost never happens
[11:28] <intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: sadly, yes
[11:38] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[11:39] <bigcalm> intrbiz: do you have a one line command for connecting to the serial console of the 3com switch?
[11:40] <knightwise> 3com ?
[11:40] <bigcalm> 3com
[11:40] <knightwise> I think you need an Indiana jones fedora for that
[11:41] <bigcalm> I have the connection settings, I just haven't worked out how to use screen to connect
[11:41] <bigcalm> Tried minicom and didn't get anywhere with it
[11:45]  * bigcalm installs putty for a giggle
[11:46] <bigcalm> It allowed me to set the settings in a sensible way. Started the session and turned on the switch. I can see the cursor move about as though the self test is running, but there's no text
[11:47] <bigcalm> This is the same result that I got from screen and minicom
[11:49] <diplo> minicom is 'orrible, never got on with it :/
[11:51] <diplo> With screen you've tried `screen /dev/ttyS0 baudratehere` ?
[11:51] <diplo> Or something
[11:52] <popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1ONXea0mX  wow
[11:52] <zmoylan-pi> so much easier when you plugged in serial cable connected to your psion back in the day :-)
[11:52] <diplo> Or gtkterm maybe ? Not sure if that is still about though
[11:52] <bigcalm> diplo: yes. It gives the same blank screen with cursor moving about as though it's getting data
[11:52] <knightwise> there
[11:52] <knightwise> ordered !
[11:53] <bigcalm> popey:
[11:53] <bigcalm> This video does not exist.
[11:53] <bigcalm> Sorry about that.
[11:55] <diplo> bigcalm: hmm, maybe baudrate issue.. cant say I've had that issue but haven't had to do anything switch related for a long time
[11:55] <popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1ONXea0mXg
[11:55] <popey> oops
[11:56] <popey> missed a g off the end
[11:56] <bigcalm> That's impressive
[11:58] <diplo> Watched it earlier, a lot of nay sayers though
[11:59] <popey> meh
[12:00] <diplo> Reading the reviews on play.google a lot of people saying speech recognition isn't that great
[12:01] <diplo> That's what I got from comments on some posts, was that it was set to understand the guy in the demo :)
[12:01]  * diplo will wait and see!
[12:02] <popey> we had problems with touch in Ubuntu some years back
[12:02] <popey> some people couldn't get it to recognise gestures.
[12:02] <popey> It was somewhat tuned for the guy who maintained touch in Ubuntu :)
[12:03] <diplo> I guess that's where having a company the size of apple and google comes in handy with all that data
[12:05] <intrbiz> bigcalm: I've used minicom in the past
[12:06] <intrbiz> bigcalm: what baud are you using
[12:10] <intrbiz> bigcalm: 19,200 should be the default, assuming previous owner didn't change it
[12:13] <bigcalm> intrbiz: using the default listed in the PDF manual...
[12:15] <zmoylan-pi> even if you select the wrong speed on serial you should get gobbledegook
[12:15] <intrbiz> bigcalm: assuming your cable works, then all I suggest is trying differing baud rates
[12:17] <bigcalm> intrbiz: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11564502/
[12:18] <bigcalm> That's a lot of settings to mess about with
[12:18] <bigcalm> Just change the baud rate?
[12:18] <intrbiz> bigcalm: just change the rate: try: 38400 and 115200
[12:18] <bigcalm> Okay :)
[12:18] <intrbiz> bigcalm: it'll by 8n1 with no flow control
[12:19] <intrbiz> bigcalm: if your not seeing anything, it'll be the rate, or the cable
[12:19] <intrbiz> bigcalm: possibly also 9600
[12:19]  * zmoylan-pi suspects cable by the sound of blank screen
[12:20] <zmoylan-pi> unless some twonk set it to 115,200 and you're trying at 9600 or vice versa
[12:24] <bigcalm> 38400 & 115200 = nothing
[12:24] <bigcalm> 9600 = a little bit of cursor movement
[12:24] <bigcalm> 19200 = a lot of cursor movement
[12:24] <bigcalm> But no actual visible text from anything
[12:26] <intrbiz> bigcalm: in what way does the cursor move?
[12:27] <zmoylan-pi> i've never used the terminal program you named, it's not set for black text on black background by any chance? /really dumb suggestion
[12:34] <shauno> other thing worth trying is to just smack enter a few times to give it something to reply to
[12:35] <shauno> I've a few things like that where the login string is sent before you connected to it, so it's actually waiting for input.  the string doesn't sit in a buffer waiting for you
[12:38] <zmoylan-pi> and ctrl-m instead of enter in case it's using wacky protocol, had that happen a few times
[12:39] <zmoylan-pi> yeah it's waiting for you to type username on blank screen
[14:07]  * popey tuts at bigcalm and his vertical video
[14:08] <bigcalm> popey: I know :(
[15:28] <ujjain> Hey, if you create a directory called $HOME, it seems you can't delete it with rm -rf $HOME
[15:29] <popey> of course, shell expands $HOME to /home/youruser
[15:29] <popey> rm -rf \$HOME
[15:30] <ujjain> ah yeah, that makes sense
[15:40] <intrbiz> ujjain: or single quote it
[15:40] <ujjain> single and double quotes are differnet?
[15:40] <intrbiz> ujjain: yes
[15:42] <intrbiz> ujjain: double quote allow interpolation, single do not, eg: T=test; echo "$T"; echo '$T'
[15:42] <ujjain> ah right
[15:42] <ujjain> #bash tells me every time to doublequote variables
[15:43] <ujjain> and that there is no good reason to use all-caps variables
[15:43] <intrbiz> ujjain: sure, if you want the variable to be interpolated, otherwise don't use double quotes
[15:43] <intrbiz> ujjain: all caps is just a coding style thing
[15:43] <ujjain> right thanks
[15:47] <shauno> I use caps for envars and lowercase for regular vars.  but it just habit, it means nothing to the system
[15:48] <shauno> (also, I think creating a folder named $HOME comes under "enough rope to hang yourself with" ;)
[15:49] <intrbiz> yes, always be weary of rm -rf
[15:52] <ujjain> I think steam once deleted all the files of a user while installing
[15:52] <ujjain> they had rm -rf /$STEAM_HOME in a bash script
[15:52] <ujjain> but didn't check if $STEAM_HOME was set :P
[15:55] <intrbiz> grrrr, LibVirts documentation really is terrible :(
[15:56] <zmoylan-pi> if the documentation was good it would be out of date :-)
[15:56] <intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: well, often, the little bits of documentation they actually have are wrong anyway
[15:57] <zmoylan-pi> i never said anything about been right :-)
[15:57] <intrbiz> zmoylan-pi: didn't say you did, just pointing it out
[16:22] <mapps> perfect
[16:22] <mapps> cant see my phone display
[16:22] <mapps> it' somehow like its been set to as low as poss
[16:41] <daftykins> mapps: o0
[16:41] <daftykins> that's what you get for buying fruit ;)
[17:16] <popey> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-gobq-grill-redefining-portability neat
[17:18] <zmoylan-pi> a fold up shovel would be smaller for making a bbq pit...
[17:20] <intrbiz> popey: pretty neat, but how bulky is the charcoal to carry around
[17:20] <popey> who carries charcoal around?
[17:20] <popey> you but that near where you're cooking
[17:20] <zmoylan-pi> artists :-)
[17:20] <popey> hah
[17:21]  * zmoylan-pi prefers my kelly kettle.  tiny volcano kettle used for making tea using minimum of fuel.  can boil a brew with a newspaper
[17:22] <daftykins> neat!
[17:22] <mapps> ?
[17:22] <zmoylan-pi>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Kettle
[17:24]  * popey hugs his weber
[17:25] <zmoylan-pi> my father had a primus stove that dated back pre 40s i think.  i always remember when driving on holiday brewing up beside the road on that primus... a cup of tea so hot you'd burn the mouth off you