[00:04] <monkeyjoe> hmm /k MaNI 
[06:20] <Kilos> morning all
[07:01] <Kilos> hi Tonberry  
[08:31] <inetpro> good mornings
[08:32] <Kilos> hello inetpro  hows you?
[08:33] <Kilos> let me know when you got some time please
[08:35] <inetpro> Kilos: not today unfortunately
[08:35] <Kilos> np sir
[08:35] <inetpro> only have a few minutes now
[08:35] <inetpro> what's up doc?
[08:35] <Kilos> its just the setting up of QA to record minutes etc
[08:36] <inetpro> hmm...
[08:36] <Kilos> no rush
[08:36] <Kilos> will still be weeks to first official meeting
[08:38] <inetpro> why weeks?
[08:39] <Kilos> gotta be after Ramadhan
[08:39] <Kilos> otherwise half of africa wont attend
[08:40] <inetpro> 'no rush' is often used sarcastically
[08:40] <Kilos> sarcastic- me- never
[08:40] <inetpro> :-)
[08:40] <Kilos> haha
[08:41] <Kilos> otherwise we can get meetingology there then cheche must chair
[08:41] <Kilos> hehe
[08:42] <Kilos> hi georgelappies  
[08:43] <inetpro> might even be a good idea to have the meeting in #ubuntu-meeting Kilos?
[08:43] <Kilos> oh my
[08:43] <inetpro> why not?
[08:43] <Kilos> more rocking of the boat
[08:44] <inetpro> why?
[08:44] <Kilos> hi Russ_  solidity  
[08:44] <inetpro> Kilos: it's just a thought
[08:44] <Russ_> hi Kilos 
[08:44] <inetpro> wb Russ_
[08:44] <Kilos> i like the idea inetpro  
[08:44] <Russ_> hey inetpro 
[08:45] <inetpro> Russ_: you still haven't upgraded your nginx?
[08:45] <Kilos> lol
[08:45] <Russ_> lol I put on FB "Whats the object oriented way to becoming rich? Inheritance" and my gran liked my post xD
[08:45] <inetpro> lol
[08:45] <Kilos> haha
[08:45] <Russ_> but
[08:45] <Russ_> I did update nginx
[08:45] <Russ_> :C
[08:46] <Russ_> what is latest?
[08:46] <Russ_> afaik I'm on latest stable :D?
[08:46] <Kilos> Russ_  dont you want to cloak your nick?
[08:46] <Russ_> well how many people wanna get all up in my shit
[08:46] <inetpro> 1.9.1 
[08:46] <Kilos> hen peeps wont see your site when you login on irc
[08:47] <Russ_> the fuck
[08:47] <Russ_> I
[08:47] <Russ_> I updated
[08:47] <Russ_> but it's on 1.2.1
[08:47] <inetpro> and on Ubuntu 15.04 it's 1.6.2
[08:47] <Russ_> what did I even do :C
[08:47] <Kilos> lol
[08:48] <Russ_> well
[08:48] <inetpro> Russ_: no worries... I'm just teasing
[08:48] <Russ_> my serveer is debian
[08:48] <Russ_> so I'm actually not surprised it's so far behind
[08:48] <Russ_> prolly IS latest
[08:48] <inetpro> exactly
[08:50] <inetpro> Kilos: the CoC process is simple really
[08:50] <inetpro> I mean, if you follow the instructions everything should just work
[08:50] <Kilos> inetpro  did you write it down
[08:50] <inetpro> Kilos: no need, it's all there 
[08:51] <Kilos> the official one?
[08:51] <inetpro> just RTFS https://help.launchpad.net/Signing%20the%20Ubuntu%20Code%20of%20Conduct
[08:51] <Kilos> thats for peeps that harp on and understand rtfs
[08:51] <Kilos> lol
[08:51] <Kilos> you beat me
[08:52] <Kilos> i hate rtfs
[08:52] <inetpro> it's all layed out very nice in a step by step explanation
[08:52] <Kilos> did you get the new guy sorted?
[08:52] <Kilos> i was poegaai
[08:53] <inetpro> yep Cryterion is all done... I think
[08:53] <Kilos> well done
[08:53] <Kilos> see i told him ask mr fixit
[08:53] <inetpro> only thing I didn't test with him is sending signed emails
[08:53] <Kilos> hi pieter2627  
[08:53] <inetpro> but then I none of you have tested that either
[08:53] <inetpro> hi pieter2627
[08:53] <Kilos> nope
[08:53] <Russ_> should I instal nginx 1.6 from backports? :(
[08:54] <Russ_> install*
[08:54] <Russ_> how insecure is 1.2? :D
[08:54] <pieter2627> morning Kilos, inetpro and all others
[08:54] <Kilos> i used that once with my linux counter number but it adds more stuff
[08:54] <inetpro> Russ_: I wouldn't, unless you really want to because of specific reasons
[08:54] <Russ_> I don't really want to :p
[08:54] <Kilos> Russ_  inetpro  wont aptitude reinstall nginx work
[08:55] <inetpro> stick with tried and tested
[08:55] <pieter2627> debugging something?
[08:55] <Kilos> aptitude or apt-get should upgrade it to stable
[08:56] <inetpro> Kilos: stop
[08:56] <Kilos> maybe even apt-get upgrade
[08:56] <Kilos> ok
[08:56] <Russ_> O_O
[08:56] <Russ_> ffs I need a new nick
[08:56] <Russ_> WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
[08:56] <inetpro> Russ_: /nick newnick
[08:56] <Kilos> why?
[08:56] <Russ_> I know how inetpro 
[08:57] <Russ_> :p
[08:57] <Russ_> Russ is taken
[08:57] <Russ_> Russ_
[08:57] <Russ_> is taken
[08:57] <inetpro> ai!
[08:57] <Kilos> eish
[08:57] <Russ_> Russ__ is taken
[08:57] <Russ_> time to keep the trend
[08:57] <Russ_> oh wait I can't change my nick
[08:57] <Russ_> is #freenode blocking it while I'm joined or what
[08:58] <Kilos>  /nick newnick
[08:58] <inetpro> unlikely
[08:58] <Russ_> I know HOW to change my nick, it just won't
[08:58] <Kilos> wow
[08:58] <Russ_> on shadowfire they blocked nick changes in #shadowfire
[08:58] <Russ_> I feel like that is happening now
[08:58] <Russ_> or they don't allow Russ___ ;p
[08:59] <Russ_> oh
[08:59] <Russ_> it was #git
[09:00] <_Russ> #git was blocking my nick change
[09:00] <inetpro> eish!
[09:00] <_Russ> [10:56:56] * Russ___ #git :Cannot change nickname while banned on channel
[09:00] <_Russ> forgot to check status window
[09:00] <Kilos> lol
[09:00] <inetpro> now to find the _ each time
[09:00] <_Russ> >:)
[09:01] <_Russ> if _ is shit to type I'll use something like R_uss? :(
[09:01] <_Russ> toys_R_uss
[09:01] <inetpro> lol
[09:01] <_Russ> fuckit
[09:01] <rusbus> good ol fallback
[09:01] <rusbus> not regged too 
[09:01] <rusbus> :D
[09:02] <inetpro> interesting nick
[09:02] <inetpro> Registered : Jun 06 09:02:18 2015 (22s ago)
[09:03] <rusbus> >:)
[09:03] <rusbus> I went like 20 years of my life never being called rusbus once ever
[09:03] <rusbus> then in one year it just caught on
[09:03] <rusbus> and as I was meeting new people they were calling me rusbus?
[09:03] <rusbus> MY FATHER EVEN SAID IT
[09:05] <inetpro> sounds almost like ruspes
[09:05] <rusbus> which is?
[09:05] <inetpro> rusbus: http://af.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kommandowurm
[09:05] <rusbus> I just realised all this time I had been reading your nick as 'intrepo'
[09:06] <inetpro> Ruspes word gevind in twee morfologies onderskeibare vorme: 'n "skoolvormende" tipe....
[09:08] <inetpro> as in larvae
[09:08] <rusbus> https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/11147109_1011651142186304_836040249344679329_n.jpg?oh=6b5add98685f32b1d9f148b872dd7727&oe=55F56BC7
[09:08] <rusbus> rofl
[09:08] <rusbus> that tanker driving through flamees
[09:08] <rusbus> flames*
[09:08] <rusbus> the actual fuck?
[09:09] <inetpro> rusbus: just need to keep the language in tact now please :-)
[09:09] <rusbus> woops
[09:09] <rusbus> so
[09:09] <rusbus> z
[09:09]  * inetpro likes the new nick
[09:10] <rusbus> never needed to watch my language on IRC beforee
[09:10]  * rusbus hides his head in shame
[09:10] <inetpro> hope you stick around
[09:10] <rusbus> well unless if my znc breaks - again - I'll be here for a while
[09:10] <rusbus> znc is the most snore thing to fix
[09:10] <inetpro> Kilos: you see, I can be a friendly greeter also 
[09:11] <rusbus> ok so who is gonna plat dota with me
[09:11] <inetpro> dota?
[09:11] <rusbus> play*
[09:11] <rusbus> dotaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
[09:12] <Kilos> lemme scroll, was outside
[09:13] <rusbus> Kilos you didn't miss anything really
[09:13] <rusbus> inetpro levelled up greet
[09:13] <inetpro> :-)
[09:14] <Kilos> haha
[09:14] <rusbus> so why all these saffers on a non-saffer network?
[09:14] <inetpro> rusbus: uh, it's freenode
[09:15] <rusbus> I know
[09:15] <rusbus> :?
[09:15] <inetpro> been around for FLOSS for ever
[09:16] <rusbus> just makes sense to me that if you're a south african and you use IRC then you'd be on a south african network too? :P
[09:16] <inetpro> and it's not like we're exlusively south african in here
[09:16] <inetpro> IT is not an island
[09:17] <rusbus> but islands are so cool ;c
[09:18] <inetpro> we tried several times in the past to get a SA freenode server going...
[09:18] <inetpro> but it's never happened for several reasons
[09:18] <rusbus> I mean a properly local server like atrum or shadowfire
[09:19] <Kilos> ah he neology guy was looking into that
[09:19] <Kilos> i wonder what happened
[09:19] <inetpro> CLUG is on atrum
[09:20] <rusbus> #chat is on shadowfire :D?
[09:20] <inetpro> ai!
[09:22] <Kilos> hi squish102  
[09:23] <inetpro> rusbus: people come and go all the time... I see no need to jump ship right now 
[09:23] <Kilos> welcome to ubuntu-za
[09:23] <rusbus> not saying jump ship
[09:25] <inetpro> rusbus: what are you saying?
[09:26] <rusbus> nothing
[09:26] <inetpro> lol
[09:28] <rusbus> how stupid crazy cold is it
[09:28] <Kilos> horrible
[09:29] <rusbus> wearing 3 pairs of socks, undies + thermal undies (with long legs), a hoodie and a onezie
[09:29] <rusbus> still cold!
[09:30] <Kilos> dont those longjons help
[09:30] <rusbus> I've worn these throughout a full winter in the UK and then 2 weeks in switzerland
[09:30] <rusbus> and somehow I feel colder in SA
[09:33] <inetpro> rusbus: where are you based?
[09:34] <inetpro> nice and warm here at the moment in Pretoria
[09:40] <rusbus> Durban
[09:41] <Kilos> wow
[09:41] <rusbus> cold as hell here
[09:41] <Kilos> dont come to the tvl
[09:41] <Kilos> Maaz  forecast durban south africa
[09:41] <Maaz> Kilos: Saturday: Clear. High: 19° C., Saturday Night: Partly Cloudy. Low: 10° C., Sunday: Clear. High: 23° C., Sunday Night: Clear. Low: 12° C., Monday: Clear. High: 23° C., Monday Night: Clear. Low: 11° C., Tuesday: Clear. High: 23° C., Tuesday Night: Clear. Low: 11° C., Wednesday: Clear. High: 23° C., Wednesday Night: Partly Cloudy. Low: 12° C.,
[09:41] <Maaz> Thursday: Partly Cloudy. High: 22° C., Thursday Night: Chance of Rain. Low: 13° C., Friday: Pa…
[09:42] <Kilos> ya a high of 19°c is winter in durbs
[09:43] <inetpro> Kilos: I sent uyou a signed message, did you get it?
[09:43] <inetpro> hmm... uyou?
[09:44] <Kilos> haha how you sing with my key?
[09:44] <Kilos> sign
[09:44] <inetpro> you have a public key
[09:44] <inetpro> that is part of the CoC process.. you uploaded your public key
[09:45] <inetpro> only problem is, you have two of them
[09:45] <Kilos> yeah ok, but now imagine a thread with many replies
[09:45] <Kilos> the key will make lotsa work
[09:45] <inetpro> uh...
[09:46] <inetpro> perhpas I should rather start this conversation when I have more time
[09:46] <inetpro> perhaps as well
[09:46] <Kilos> lol
[09:48] <inetpro> Kilos: did you install Enigmail with Thunderbird?
[09:48] <Kilos> dont think so
[09:48] <Kilos> what dfoes that do
[09:48] <inetpro> ai!
[09:48] <Kilos> does
[09:49] <inetpro> https://www.enigmail.net/home/index.php
[09:49] <Kilos> i see its not installed
[09:50] <Kilos> oh my
[09:50] <Kilos> your fault
[09:51] <inetpro> read through that when you have time
[09:51] <Kilos> ok
[09:52] <inetpro> and for those with web interfaces for email check out https://www.mailvelope.com/
[09:52] <inetpro> found by superfly last night
[09:52] <Kilos> and will everyone see my mails if they are encrypted
[09:52] <Kilos> or be able to read them?
[09:52] <inetpro> Kilos: no
[09:53] <Kilos> ai!
[09:53] <Kilos> so how does tara and ian then read my mails
[09:53] <mazal> do ps3 - *check* , do pc - *check* , eat - *check* , warm bath - *in progress*
[09:53] <mazal> lol , morning guys
[09:53] <Kilos> lol mazal  
[09:53] <inetpro> hi mazal
[09:54] <inetpro> pieter2627: did you see that ^^?
[09:54] <inetpro> pieter2627: https://www.mailvelope.com/
[09:54]  * pieter2627 will quickly have to read the last few history
[09:55] <inetpro> pieter2627: I just started the conversation now
[09:55] <inetpro> only at 11:43
[09:55]  * Kilos waits for an answer
[09:56] <Kilos> patiently
[09:56] <inetpro> Kilos: ai!
[09:56] <Kilos> rofl
[09:56] <inetpro> forget about those for now... send them normal emails
[09:56] <inetpro> you really don't have to sipgn and encrypt every email
[09:56] <Kilos> oh you get to choose
[09:57] <inetpro> sign*
[09:57] <inetpro> by default you sign or encrypt none
[09:57] <Kilos> so who would i send encrypted mails to?
[09:58] <Kilos> i just mail lists and peeps here and family
[09:58] <pieter2627> inetpro: interesting
[09:58] <inetpro> encryption remains difficult for the average user
[09:59] <inetpro> pieter2627: it's been around for ever
[10:00] <inetpro> I mean enigmail
[10:00] <pieter2627> ah ok
[10:00] <inetpro> but mailvelope is rather new... I think
[10:01]  * pieter2627 has never been much of a privacy freak... um person :p
[10:02] <inetpro> privacy... what privacy?
[10:03]  * inetpro just trying to complete the circle with signing the CoC so people can find more reason to sign it :-)
[10:03] <pieter2627> to encrypt emails
[10:03] <pieter2627> oh I see
[10:05] <inetpro> where's stickyboy? I'm sure he would love email to be encrypted by default even
[10:05] <inetpro> maybe one day we'll get there
[10:07] <inetpro> there's definitely no point in trying to encrypt everything else in your life and not encrypt emails
[10:08] <inetpro> anyway, that's it for me for the day... until maybe late this evening
[10:08] <inetpro> enjoy the day!
[10:08] <pieter2627> thanks for you too inetpro 
[10:18] <Kilos> have a good day inetpro  
[10:47] <Kilos> rusbus  have you checked your blood pressure
[10:47] <rusbus> nope
[10:47] <rusbus> why?
[10:48] <Kilos> normally low lets you get cold easy
[10:49] <Kilos> if you bend forward then stand upright fast do you feel dizzy for a while?
[10:49] <rusbus> will try after this game
[11:07] <rusbus> ok so do I just lean forward like I'm touching the ground or what
[11:07] <Kilos> yeah and stay down for a while
[11:07] <rusbus> I did it like 10 times
[11:07] <rusbus> ok
[11:08] <Kilos> then come up fast
[11:08] <Kilos> no dizzyness?
[11:09] <rusbus> not really
[11:09] <rusbus> when I did it fast 10 times
[11:09] <rusbus> my head hurt after xD
[11:09] <Kilos> lol
[11:10] <rusbus> I must add that my bedroom is actually a garage
[11:10] <rusbus> so it's not properly insulated
[11:10] <Kilos> you supposed to do it once
[11:10] <rusbus> and where the garage door was is now a sliding door
[11:11] <rusbus> so thats a big heatsink
[11:11] <Kilos> aha
[11:11] <Kilos> if there was any feeling of dizzyness or light headed feeling it could be low bp
[11:12] <Kilos> but at 19°c you shouldnt be getting cold really
[11:12] <Kilos> unless you are old
[11:16] <rusbus> ROFL
[11:16] <rusbus> dude
[11:16] <rusbus> durban is like
[11:16] <rusbus> 25+ most of the time
[11:16] <rusbus> 19 is so cold for me
[11:16] <Kilos> yeah i lived there for 20 years
[11:17] <rusbus> literally <24 is cold for me
[11:17] <Kilos> me too
[11:17] <Kilos> but i can blame age
[11:26] <gremble> o/
[11:26] <Kilos> hi gremble  
[11:31] <rusbus> unless if you're about 70 then I don't think you CAN blame age :p
[11:34] <Kilos> oh no still 6 years to go then
[11:36] <gremble> Is a rusbus the opposite of a partybus?
[11:36] <Kilos> lol
[12:03] <rusbus> I hope not
[12:03] <rusbus> Kilos where in durbs did you live?
[12:04] <Kilos> toti and worked in the old post office workshops
[12:04] <rusbus> rad
[12:04] <rusbus> I live in toti
[12:05] <Kilos> was a great place back then
[12:05] <rusbus> it isn't anymore?
[12:05] <Kilos> i had a house below elgro flats
[12:05] <rusbus> I think toti gets a bad rap from durban people purely cause it's the unknown to them but toti is awesome
[12:05] <Kilos> doonside area
[12:05] <rusbus> cool, I'm not too far from there
[12:05] <rusbus> brother in laws parents live there
[12:06] <Kilos> you know the shopping centre when you come up from the beach
[12:06]  * rusbus is now listening to:  - Maggot Brain
[12:06] <Kilos> big one on the right
[12:06] <rusbus> which beach?
[12:06] <Kilos> warners
[12:06] <rusbus> you talking about the new one? Galleria?
[12:06] <rusbus> oh
[12:06] <rusbus> baggies beach
[12:06] <rusbus> that little tuck shop?
[12:07] <rusbus> or the one by the road
[12:07] <Kilos> no man big shopping centre
[12:07] <rusbus> 404 shopping centre not found
[12:07] <Kilos> lol
[12:07] <Kilos> hmm...
[12:07] <Kilos> seadoon road
[12:08] <Kilos> from the beach you go under the freeway and straight up
[12:08] <rusbus> ohhhhhhhhhhh
[12:08] <rusbus> ROFL
[12:08] <Kilos> there a big shooping centre
[12:08] <rusbus> I was thinking further south
[12:08] <rusbus> ya I know what you're talking about
[12:08] <rusbus> seadoone mall
[12:09] <Kilos> now in that road there is a wall on the left
[12:09] <rusbus> https://www.google.co.za/maps/place/Seadoone+Rd,+Kingsburgh,+4126/@-30.06631,30.870132,3a,75y,11.07h,91.82t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1skhR8uPdPZGymGGq3niwrGw!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x1ef64d14b55dabbf:0x799c2147f2aa0e91!6m1!1e1?hl=en
[12:09] <Kilos> ya thats it
[12:09] <Kilos> the house on top of that wall was my moms
[12:09] <Kilos> i forget names
[12:10] <rusbus> thats like 100-200m from my brother in laws parents
[12:10] <Kilos> shamiers?
[12:10] <rusbus> I'm on the other side of hutchinson park
[12:10] <rusbus> shaimers?
[12:10] <rusbus> is that a road name? xD
[12:10] <rusbus> I don't know those roads names
[12:10] <Kilos> nono the peeps above mom were shamier
[12:11] <rusbus> except camel(toes)sfoot road :p
[12:11] <rusbus> oh
[12:11] <rusbus> no they're binnekade
[12:11] <Kilos> only remember then because they had a kiff daughter
[12:11] <rusbus> but did you bang
[12:11] <rusbus> (joking)
[12:12] <rusbus> if you lived there did you go to toti high?
[12:12] <Kilos> no my brother went to dhs
[12:12] <rusbus> and you?
[12:12] <Kilos> i did schooling in pta
[12:13] <rusbus> ah
[12:13] <Kilos> was a lifesaver at warners for some years
[12:13] <Kilos> 40 years ago
[12:13] <rusbus> warners still has the whole lifesavers stuff going on
[12:13] <rusbus> with competitions and whatnot
[12:13] <Kilos> yeah was great fun
[12:13] <gremble> Did you save many lives?
[12:14] <Kilos> nono only pretty pta chicks
[12:14] <rusbus> rofl you only saved pretty pta chicks?
[12:14] <rusbus> who was on miff toti chicks duty then? :p
[12:14] <Kilos> if the lifeys keep control there arent many incidents
[12:15] <Kilos> then i married a toti chick and had to give up lifesaving
[12:15] <rusbus> damn toti chicks!
[12:15] <Kilos> lol
[12:15] <rusbus> https://images.playboy.com/playboy-digital/image/fetch/s--YLIq_bHQ--/q_80%2Fhttp%3A%2F%2Fimages-origin.playboy.com%2Fogz4nxetbde6%2F2AF3SInMq0ECqy6CEUWqOy%2F696d2ea2e4ed7c3e84a12ea782c8be8c%2Fhumor-bikini-gentlemen.jpg
[12:16] <rusbus> it says playboy.com but it's a girl in a bikini
[12:16] <rusbus> so SFW?
[12:16] <rusbus> depends where you work I gueeess
[12:16] <rusbus> guess*
[12:16] <rusbus> man my keyboard is losing it
[12:16] <rusbus> triple e's
[12:16] <rusbus> my z doesn't work on a good day and then it'll quadruple z
[12:16] <Kilos> lol mine getting tired too
[12:17] <rusbus> I dunno why my z of all keys is giving me problems
[12:17] <rusbus> do I REALLY make that many mistakes?
[12:18] <Kilos> what do you do? working?
[12:18] <rusbus> currently home automation
[12:18] <rusbus> yourself?
[12:18] <Kilos> kinda forced retirement
[12:18] <rusbus> kinda?
[12:19] <Kilos> ya bust head open and cant do physical stuff anymore
[12:19] <rusbus> :(
[12:19] <rusbus> what happened?
[12:20] <Kilos> shaft on a windmill broke and bashe me 3 times
[12:20] <rusbus> O________O
[12:20] <rusbus> were you working?
[12:20] <Kilos> split skull from above left eye to behind left ear and across
[12:20] <Kilos> yaeh managing a stock farm
[12:21] <rusbus> man you're lucky to be alive
[12:21] <Kilos> i wasn when i got to hospital
[12:21] <Kilos> bu they got good reboot tools
[12:21] <rusbus> well
[12:21] <rusbus> I guess they tried turning off and on again
[12:21] <rusbus> works every time
[12:21] <Kilos> lol
[12:22] <rusbus> I make a joke but I'm glad you're not dead
[12:22] <Kilos> me too i would have missed ubuntu
[12:22] <rusbus> I'm such a child, I make jokes when stuff gets serious :p
[12:22] <rusbus> LOL
[12:22] <rusbus> I haven't even used ubuntu in forever
[12:22] <rusbus> I'm only here cause south africans!
[12:23] <Kilos> you use what again?
[12:23] <rusbus> I dual boot windows and arch (currently on windows) and then my bouncer is on a debian server
[12:23] <rusbus> yourself?
[12:24] <Kilos> i have 2 pcs, one with kubuntu 14.04 and one with all sorts i use for repairing drives
[12:25] <rusbus> kubuntu is the one with KDE?
[12:25] <rusbus> (sorry for ignorance)
[12:25] <Kilos> i do repairs for local kids with bust win lapptops
[12:25] <Kilos> yes
[12:25] <rusbus> back when canonical sent free cd's of ubuntu
[12:25] <rusbus> I used to be on ubuntu
[12:25] <rusbus> convert people to it, etc
[12:26] <rusbus> back when my cap was 3gb
[12:26] <Kilos> i aslo do data recoveries for my sons clients
[12:26] <rusbus> and I couldn't download a distro xD
[12:26] <rusbus> what does your son do?
[12:26] <Kilos> there are guys in durbs that download and distributew
[12:26] <Kilos> no w
[12:27] <Kilos> he does that biometrics stuff i think its called
[12:27] <Kilos> scanners for fingerprint and hand and eye
[12:27] <rusbus> thats cool
[12:27] <Kilos> and also timekeeping stuff
[12:27] <rusbus> does them as in? makes them? sells them?
[12:27] <Kilos> installs and maintains
[12:28] <rusbus> cool
[12:28] <rusbus> at work we got a guy who wants us to rig a finger print scanner to his front door
[12:28] <Kilos> clock machines and that kinda stuff
[12:28] <rusbus> and it's a massive door
[12:29] <rusbus> (motorised door*)
[12:29] <Kilos> oh so if you got right fingerprint the door will open?
[12:30] <Kilos> or still open from someone inside operating it
[12:31] <gremble> functional data structures turn weird very quickly
[12:33] <superfly> gremble: my point exactly! :-P
[12:35] <gremble> Haha the weird things from imperative data structures, they have automatically. Like permanence
[12:36] <superfly> rusbus: just an FYI: this channel is governed by the Ubuntu Code of Conduct, and on top of that we like to keep things clean in here. You never know who is going to pop in here.
[12:45] <rusbus> thanks superfly I'll google it
[12:45] <rusbus> Kilos so only family members can open the door with their finger prints
[12:45] <rusbus> can still be operated from inside
[12:45] <rusbus> or remotely using our automation system
[12:46] <superfly> rusbus: you're welcome.
[12:48] <gremble> wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/TermsOfService
[12:49] <gremble> I need to go buy canned air
[12:49] <gremble> :x
[13:00] <Kilos> canned air?
[13:01] <Kilos> to do what with?
[13:02] <squish102>  Kilos | welcome to ubuntu-za < thanks
[13:06] <gremble> Kilos: You use it to blow the dust and shit out of your computer and computer prepherihislajsh
[13:06] <gremble> my fingers don't want to spell that last word
[13:06] <Kilos> oh i use a compressor
[13:06] <gremble> Peripherals
[13:07] <gremble> a compressor is canned air that works with a large engine and electricity
[13:07] <gremble> I don't have that
[13:07] <gremble> :P
[13:07] <Kilos> lol
[13:08] <gremble> My mouse died and I don't have spare batteries or a wired mouse
[13:08] <gremble> haha
[13:08] <Kilos> ai!
[13:50] <Kilos> hi Cantide  
[13:50] <Cantide> hello :p
[13:57] <gremble> Any of you want to read funny shit on twitter, try @shit_hn_says
[13:57] <gremble> :P
[14:00] <gremble> "Furthermore I've always believed that Ubuntu was  an NSA fron from its very inception"
[14:02] <Kilos> whats that?
[14:05] <gremble> It is people talking nonesense for our entertainment
[14:06] <Kilos> nono the NSA thing
[14:06] <gremble> "This misses the greater point, which is that syntax highlighting is a cancer and needs to be cut out"
[14:06] <gremble> That is someone alledging that Ubuntu is NSA spyware
[14:06] <Kilos> ah
[14:10] <gremble> "This is surprisingly easy because C is largely a small subset of Common Lisp" That was beautiful
[14:11] <gremble> Okay Ill stop now
[14:11] <gremble> :P
[14:11] <Kilos> hehe
[14:11] <Cantide> those are gems :D
[14:12] <gremble> "And assembler is much closer to the hardware, so would recommend learning x86 assembler as the first language, then C"
[14:12] <gremble> Imagine trying to teach someone x86 as a programming language. They'll stop talking to you
[14:13] <Cantide> as the first language :D
[14:14] <gremble> "Students, today we are going to do flow control with x86. First, GOTO..."
[14:14] <gremble> Nope
[14:14] <gremble> I just had horrod flashbacks trying to learn NASM
[14:20] <solidity> I sort of half agree with that. Not teaching them the whole of assembler, but as someone who has started from a very high level and worked my way down, I would teach people by starting at a low level and work the way up.
[14:20] <solidity> Depending on what the purpose of the teaching is though.
[14:21] <solidity> But I would not cover everything on the low level, just enough so that people have some hands on experience and understanding, then use that as a basis to move up to a higher level. Repeat up till desired level.
[14:22] <solidity> You don't start learning biochemistry without first learning chemistry.
[14:24] <Cantide> true that
[14:24] <Cantide> but it might be a bit intimidating for a beginner
[14:25] <solidity> Then they shouldn't be programmers.
[14:25] <solidity> Just like if you are afraid of fires you shouldn't be a fireman.
[14:25] <Cantide> :p
[14:26] <gremble> No, but throwing fireman recruits into a fire to teach them how it is in there is scaring them away from it. You start with smaller bits and teach them that strange things like that isnt scary
[14:27] <gremble> Your biochem argument also doesn't work really well in this case because biochem is a speciality of chemestry where webdevelopment is not a speciality of compiler construction or low level programming
[14:28] <gremble> I would say start by teaching the process of programming using a pseudo language instead of a language with specific grammar and constructs. If you can think about programming, then learning a language is not that difficult
[14:30] <solidity> Well, I don't think programming is something you really do in isolation, because are always working with the real world, and in the real world, you have to work with the systems available to you, and you have to know how the entire stack works in order to find the right solution, which sometimes doesn't even involve programming.
[14:31] <gremble> If I want to program a javascript app I only need to know how V8 works, I don't have to know how x86 works
[14:32] <gremble> If I want to code in C and optimise certain aspects of my code, then sure, x86 should be helpful (if that is what I am coding on)
[14:32] <gremble> Granted, if you want to immerse yourself in the computing industry and be more than just a front end developer, you probably need to know more than just javascript
[14:33] <solidity> I'm talking about software engineering as a discipline that is not bound to any specific domain or language.
[14:33] <gremble> But that is much, much broader than just learning to program. 
[14:34] <gremble> I agree with your sentiment there
[14:34] <gremble> If you want to call yourself a software engineer, you will need to know many other things
[14:38] <solidity> I see your point.
[14:42] <gremble> Seeing those poor actuarial science students with me, absolutely terrified with having to learn C++, I would not want to burden them with x86 even though they need to be able to think about how to program
[14:42] <solidity> Who decided to teach them C++
[14:42] <solidity> ?
[14:43] <solidity> Poor sods.
[14:44] <solidity> But I was also talking about programming from a more compsci perspective.
[14:45] <solidity> But this is the difference between a car mechanic vs a car driver.
[14:45] <solidity> c++ is a mechanic's language
[14:46] <solidity> python is much better suited to someone will only spend a small part of their average day programming.
[14:46] <solidity> (I'm guessing, I don't actually know how actuaries go about work)
[14:47] <solidity> So for people like that I agree, but they aren't programmers, they just know about it.
[14:47] <solidity> Just like I'm not a car mechanic because I know a little bit about how an engine works.
[14:48] <solidity> they just know how to do it a bit*
[14:48] <solidity> But that is also in a very confined scope with only one problem domain, and they probably don't see programming as anything other than a tool they have to use to get the job done.
[14:49] <solidity> Unlike us poor fools that seem to like it for its own sake.
[14:50] <gremble> That is the thing though. Programming is a thing in itself. If you understand the way to think 'programatically' (horrible word, don't know what would fit better), the language doesn't matter that much. The idea is to first get to that place where you can think programatically.
[14:51] <gremble> Having that method of thinking makes reasoning about something low levelled like assembly much easier
[14:51] <gremble> I agree that the actuaries need to learn python instead of C++.
[14:52] <solidity> Well, if you take a cooking recipe, that is a program in essense.
[14:52] <solidity> open source too :P
[14:53] <gremble> What do you do solidity?
[14:53] <solidity> I am currently a NEET
[14:53] <solidity> I have some background as a web developer though.
[14:53] <gremble> What is a neet?
[14:53] <Kilos> lol
[14:53] <solidity> Both front-end and back-end.
[14:54] <gremble> That is quite...neat
[14:54] <gremble> ;P
[14:54] <solidity> Not currently Employed, in Education or Training.
[14:54] <gremble> Ah
[14:56] <solidity> I'm transitioning careers into something to do with food and nutrition though.
[14:56] <gremble> Oh, that sounds interesting
[14:56] <solidity> Oh it is :)
[14:57] <solidity> So until I can start studying next year I'm just doing odd things here and there to keep myself busy.
[14:57] <gremble> I did a preemptive career transition, from sound/lighting technician to mathematician
[14:57] <gremble> Well, I am still attempting said transition :P
[14:58] <solidity> Interesting.
[14:59] <solidity> I wish I had the time to also study more mathematics.
[15:00] <gremble> Same
[15:00] <solidity> Before I decided on food and nutrition I was considering mathematics :P
[15:01] <solidity> and computer science
[15:01] <solidity> (and biochemistry)
[15:01] <solidity> :P
[15:01] <rusbus> now it makes sense why you said you were in #nutrition xD
[15:01] <gremble> I did a year of comp sci, and it is my first love. However, I don't like the software engineering bit around it
[15:01] <rusbus> solidity gief roids
[15:02] <solidity> rusbus, I can't give you roids but the closest thing I can recommend is milk.
[15:02] <rusbus> aweh time to get swole
[15:03] <solidity> Just remember: anabolic compounds also promote cancer growth.
[15:03] <rusbus> time to get riddled!
[15:03] <solidity> So you can get swole while you get swole.
[15:04] <solidity> gremble: why didn't you like software engineering?
[15:09] <gremble> solidity: Programming is much more interesting than just knowing how to loosely couple your modules or parsing JSON. CompSci is for all practical reasons a math field on its own, but at UP they don't touch the math
[15:09] <gremble> Just AI and software architecture/engineering
[15:11] <solidity> I guess that depends on how you define what you want to do.
[15:12]  * superfly is apparently doing his Python wrong
[15:13] <squish102> try grab with both hands
[15:13] <solidity> superfly, I recommend you drop everything you do and learn to make your own custom microchips
[15:14] <superfly> solidity: not quite, but we're making our own hardware
[15:14] <superfly> Is compiling a kernel for a custom ARM device enough for you?
[15:14] <MaNI> compsci course that doesn't touch discrete math and logic? blasphemy
[15:15] <solidity> No. In fact, you should just get an abacus and enough food and water for a 3 days.
[15:15] <solidity> :D
[15:15] <superfly> doh! So being doing it all wrong all of these years
[15:15] <Kilos> lol
[15:16] <Kilos> patience with the youngsters
[15:16] <solidity> Yes, if you can't finish your computation before your supplies run out you need to optimize your algorithms.
[15:16] <solidity> bbiab
[15:18] <gremble> MaNI: That is the only math that it touches, but only a little bit
[15:19] <gremble> Why are you doing your python wrong superfly >
[15:20] <gremble> Have you tried doing it in Haskell
[15:20] <gremble> :PPPPP
[15:21] <superfly> gremble: according to solidity, Python is much better suited to someone will only spend a small part of their average day programming, and I've been doing Python full time for work and for open source for 6 - 8 years.
[15:22] <superfly> (actually, the open source part for longer, about 10 years)
[15:23] <gremble> I think he meant the converse, that someone who only spend a small part of their average day programming should use python.
[15:25] <superfly> Ah, I didn't read it that way.
[15:27] <gremble> One day I will sit my ass down and learn python. Its one of those languages where I have the books in the "bookshelf" ready to learn, but something more interesting pops up
[15:27] <gremble> Or more pressing
[15:27] <gremble> Damn priorities
[15:27] <gremble> :P
[15:35] <gremble> In an imperative language, you have no guarantee that a simple function that should just crunch some numbers won't burn down your house, kidnap your dog and scratch your car with a potato while crunching those numbers.
[15:35] <gremble> from learnyouahaskell.com/input-and-output
[15:35] <gremble> :P
[16:50] <solidity> haha
[16:52] <solidity> I didn't mean it in the way that python should only be used by people who only program a little bit.
[16:53] <solidity> Just that python is one of the better languages for that situation. It is still a good language for general programming.
[16:53] <solidity> But I'm no expert.
[17:20] <Kilos> hi nlsthzn  hows you and fam?
[17:21] <Kilos> hi Cryterion  , you coc good too now?
[17:28] <Cryterion> hi, Kilos, got to the email point last night and haven't had much chance to continue further yet
[17:28] <Kilos> ah
[17:30] <Kilos> lol the pro says its easy
[17:31] <Cryterion> I'll prob look into more later on this evening again
[17:32] <Kilos> lol good luck
[17:32] <Cryterion> movie time for now, :)
[17:33] <stickyboy> Nairobu GNU/Linux Users Group meeting was good.
[17:33] <Kilos> oh they still alive stickyboy  
[17:33] <stickyboy> The company who I accused of violating the GPL showed up. :P
[17:33] <Kilos> must have had food , otherwise you wouldnt say it was good
[17:33] <Kilos> ah thats good
[17:34] <stickyboy> They are going to donate one product to the group so we can hack it and blog about it.
[17:35] <stickyboy> Win win
[17:35] <Kilos> lol
[17:35] <Kilos> thats called bribery and corruption
[17:36] <Cryterion> lol
[17:40] <stickyboy> I don't know why I even try with you, Kilos. ;)
[17:40] <Kilos> because you like me
[17:41] <Kilos> im sure they gave you a bucket of feta as well
[17:41] <stickyboy> I guess so. :)
[17:41] <stickyboy> If I ever come to South Africa I'm gonna come sleep on the couch on your sister's small holding though.
[17:41] <Kilos> lol
[17:42] <Kilos> no feta here we eat meat
[17:42] <stickyboy> I've been to Kimberley and Bloemfontain a few times. I hope that's not the best you have to offer. :P
[17:42] <Kilos> no man go to durban or capetown
[17:43] <stickyboy> Is Durban where all the Indian food is?
[17:43] <Kilos> yes
[17:43] <Kilos> best curry in the country
[17:44] <Kilos> even vegetable curry
[17:44] <Kilos> do you eat curry?
[17:44] <stickyboy> w00t
[17:44] <stickyboy> I am *into* curry, bru
[17:44] <stickyboy> Like nobody's business.
[17:45] <Kilos> do you guys have shops that sell za products
[17:45] <Kilos> look for golddish vegetable curry
[17:45] <Kilos> very lekker
[17:45] <Kilos> i eat it out of the can even
[17:45] <stickyboy> Lots of crap ZA product here.
[17:46] <rusbus> vegetable curry?
[17:46] <stickyboy> (jk they are all high quality, more than Kenyan)
[17:46] <rusbus> in cans?
[17:46] <stickyboy> hehehhe
[17:46] <Kilos> man look for that then tell me its crap
[17:46] <stickyboy> lol
[17:46] <stickyboy> Kilos: hehe I'll look.
[17:46] <stickyboy> I found Zoo Biscuits recently.
[17:46] <Kilos> best veggie curry ive tasted
[17:46] <stickyboy> My SA ex-girlfriend used to love those.
[17:47] <Kilos> rusbus  look in checkers or other supermarkets
[17:47] <Kilos> there are a few different brands but golddish is by far the best
[17:48] <rusbus> will try remember
[17:48] <gremble> Zoo biscuits are good, just very expensive
[17:48] <gremble> :P
[17:48] <gremble> This text book has "Spank the monkey" as an example string in a todo program.
[17:49] <rusbus> when monkies are naughty they need to be spanked
[17:49] <rusbus> what is the book?
[17:49] <gremble> learnyouahaskell
[17:50] <solidity> for great good
[17:51] <rusbus> gremble please try sell me haskell in one sentence
[17:51] <rusbus> and then again in no less than 3000 words.
[17:51] <Kilos> lol
[17:52] <Kilos> http://learnyouahaskell.com/
[17:52] <rusbus> I'm there
[17:52] <rusbus> but I want someone to tell me why it's good :p
[17:52] <rusbus> and why I'd want to learn it
[17:52] <rusbus> (should I want to learn it?)
[17:52] <Kilos> only gremble knows
[17:53] <Kilos> the fly prefers to be able to read his code
[17:53] <gremble> Because up until now you've only programmed with an imperative paradigm and it is interesting to be able to think in another way of programming
[17:54] <gremble> There is no reason why you should want to learn it any more than learning OO originally
[17:54] <gremble> Functional programs are "harder" to read because imperative programming is the "standard" way of programming taught
[17:54] <gremble> That is why some people also struggle with OO programming
[17:54] <solidity> 4 sentences so far~
[17:54] <gremble> I have many sentences
[17:55] <Kilos> gremble  you should just have said because you cant
[17:55] <gremble> cant what?
[17:55] <Kilos> then its a challenge and you saved words
[17:56] <solidity> That actually works btw.
[17:56] <Kilos> cant do haskel man
[17:56] <solidity> Told someone yesterday that only wizards can answer his question. So he googled it.
[17:57] <gremble> I am not going to give him a disengenous answer only because he asked for one. May as well put some effort into it
[17:57] <rusbus> so far my only reasoning for considering haskell is the functional programming part
[17:57] <gremble> I like the idea of lazy evaluation, but I have not tried a strict language yet
[17:57] <gremble> That is my next endeavour
[17:58] <gremble> StandardML or Lisp
[18:06] <solidity> Speaking of which, I need to get back to learning Haskell.
[18:06] <Kilos> lol
[18:07] <gremble> I should get back to learning calculus, but this is much more fun
[18:09] <Kilos> inetpro  ping
[18:15] <solidity> gremble: where in LYAH are you now?
[18:15] <gremble> input and output
[18:15] <gremble> Finishing up with random
[18:17] <solidity> This will be the third time I start reading this book.
[18:17] <gremble> Why do you keep restarting? 
[18:17] <solidity> I always start and then stuff happens and I forget about it.
[18:17] <gremble> :p
[18:17] <solidity> So I need to refresh my memory.
[18:17] <gremble> I've been slow with it as wekk
[18:17] <gremble> well*
[18:17] <gremble> I've done some of Real World Haskell by O'Reilly too
[18:18] <solidity> But moving to new house is done, not going to sukkel with gentoo as my main OS done, so I can make time to work through it in peace now.
[18:18] <gremble> And I have a little irc bot that has no functionality as well. But that I built from a tutorial
[18:18] <gremble> Isn't Gentoo a perpetual struggle though?
[18:19] <solidity>  <solidity> I think we should write a irc service called NoobServ that keeps a database of users and messages new users with a brief overview of how IRC works.
[18:19] <solidity> There is an idea for your bot.
[18:19] <solidity> gremble, probably
[18:20] <solidity> But my interest in linux is more on the "how does this work" than "I want to use this".
[18:20] <solidity> I like the idea behind the control it gives you as well.
[18:20] <gremble> As long as you are having fun :P
[18:21] <solidity> Indeed, I like learning about the nitty gritty, slow as that may be.
[18:22] <gremble> Well, we can work through it together. You are welcome to ask me if you are stuck :P I have a deep seated interest in this as I am academically interested in lambda calculus and category theory
[18:22] <gremble> So I spend quite a lot of effort on understanding how this magical thing works
[18:23] <solidity> Will do, thanks.
[18:28] <Kilos> ai! this place is getting worse and worse
[18:28] <gremble> Why?
[18:29] <Kilos> im being swamped by brains
[18:29] <gremble> Is that bad?
[18:29] <Kilos> and they all expect me to have one as well
[18:29] <Kilos> thats the bad part
[18:29] <Kilos> you not too bad
[18:29] <Kilos> and pro and fly understand as well
[18:31] <Kilos> but i like being surrounded by clever peeps
[18:31] <Kilos> maybe one day some will rub off on me
[18:32] <gremble> we can only hope
[18:32] <gremble> :P
[18:32] <Kilos> rofl
[18:33] <Kilos> come on man ive learned lots, i can do apt-get update && apt-get upgrade
[18:33] <Kilos> thats plenty
[18:34] <gremble> Haha you don't have to defend yourself against me :P I know that you are capable
[18:34] <gremble> You've helped more people here than I have
[18:34] <gremble> I just talk smack all day
[18:34] <Kilos> with basics
[18:35] <Kilos> blame the pro
[18:35] <Kilos> he pushes stuff onto me
[18:35] <gremble> That's good
[18:35] <Kilos> like this key thing now in my mail
[18:36] <gremble> Everyone needs a little push
[18:36] <Kilos> nono i need to rest
[18:38] <rusbus> solidity gremble Kilos and whoever was talking about haskell earlier
[18:38] <rusbus> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2573135/python-progression-path-from-apprentice-to-guru
[18:38] <rusbus> point 7 in top response
[18:39] <Kilos> not me
[18:40] <rusbus> :c
[18:40] <Kilos> i tried python
[18:40] <Kilos> got stuck on vim
[18:40] <rusbus> python is great but I linked that cause of the haskell in the answer
[18:40] <rusbus> Kilos don't use vim then :p
[18:40] <Kilos> i can drag/drop pics well but
[18:40] <Kilos> hehe
[18:40] <rusbus> https://atom.io/
[18:40] <Kilos> nono enough in head
[18:40] <rusbus> I love atom
[18:41] <Kilos> tried html and some other stuffs too
[18:41] <Kilos> im too old to learn more now
[18:43] <solidity> Nah, I only started learning programming at the age of 24, which is way older than most people.
[18:43] <solidity> You just have to learn smart.
[18:43] <Kilos> lol
[18:43] <gremble> Atom is nice
[18:43] <Kilos> my son is 40
[18:43] <solidity> hah
[18:44] <solidity> I firmly believe no one is too old to learn.
[18:44] <Kilos> ya if they have everything sill in place
[18:44] <Kilos> still
[18:44] <gremble> rusbus: I think 11 is the most important step there
[18:44] <solidity> Neurological disorders aside.
[18:44] <Kilos> i lost some stuff from head
[18:46] <solidity> But, forcing yourself to learn something you won't really be using might be why it can be hard to learn it.
[18:46] <Kilos> i tried bzr and um
[18:46] <Kilos> the site tihing
[18:47] <Kilos> nikola
[18:47] <solidity> I always ask myself what I want to use what I'm learning for. Like vim for example, you don't need to bother with that, the reasons people recommend it probably doesn't apply to you.
[18:47] <gremble> Don't learn vim
[18:47] <Kilos> im happy as i am i got friends on irc
[18:48] <gremble> Once you use it, you can't use anything else
[18:48] <gremble> :<
[18:48] <solidity> hehe
[18:48] <gremble> After writing something in a word processor I have to find all the instances of :w and remove them
[18:48] <solidity> rofl
[18:49] <gremble> usually in pairs of :w:i or :w:a
[18:49] <solidity> I never got into vim much aside from knowing the basics.
[18:49] <gremble> I think I still only know the basics
[18:49] <solidity> It is one of those powerful but archaic and quirky tools.
[18:49] <gremble> I don't use any plugins
[18:50] <gremble> I am excited for neovim
[18:50] <rusbus> [20:43:27] <Kilos> my son is 40
[18:50] <rusbus> [20:43:32] <solidity> hah
[18:50] <rusbus> rofl ^
[18:50] <rusbus> he didn't expect that xD
[18:50] <solidity> Nope.
[18:50] <Kilos> lol
[18:52] <rusbus> I used to use vim
[18:52] <rusbus> literally just insert
[18:52] <rusbus> make an edit
[18:52] <rusbus> then save and quit xD
[18:52] <solidity> That is the extent of my usage as well :P
[18:52] <Kilos> i like using nano to edit with
[18:52] <rusbus> A friend started a diploma that I was doing
[18:52] <rusbus> but I was already 2 years in
[18:52] <rusbus> and he needed help with C++
[18:53] <rusbus> which I literally hadn't touched in forever
[18:53] <rusbus> I couldn't get my stupid netbeans to work
[18:53] <rusbus> well, HIS
[18:53] <rusbus> on both mac and windows
[18:53] <rusbus> so I made a debian VM and learnt emacs
[18:53] <rusbus> and helped him using that
[18:53] <rusbus> emacs is cool but... 
[18:53] <rusbus> ya
[18:53] <rusbus> may as well just use nano :p
[18:54] <solidity> also like vim, archaic and quicky
[18:54] <solidity> quirky*
[18:54] <Kilos> helping others is good
[18:54] <rusbus> solidity emacs is so much more
[18:54] <rusbus> but I don't see the REASON WHY
[18:54] <rusbus> like
[18:54] <rusbus> ok let me use emacs to check my email
[18:54] <rusbus> read my favorite rss feed
[18:54] <rusbus> etc
[18:54] <rusbus> WHY
[18:54] <rusbus> I JUST WANT TO EDIT TEXT FILES
[18:54] <solidity> Back then people only had command lines and spent most of their time in text editors.
[18:54] <Kilos> because you can
[18:55] <solidity> Today we have GUIs and experience.
[18:55] <Kilos> ]learn as much as you can while you can
[18:55] <rusbus> I still haven't really programmed something awesome :(
[18:55] <rusbus> like properly awesome
[18:55] <solidity> It's like car modding I guess, most of it is done for no practical reason aside from they like to mess around with cars.
[18:55] <gremble> I think few people can say that they have
[18:55] <solidity> I programmed a quine!
[18:55] <Kilos> car modding is fun
[18:55] <solidity> Which is about the most awesome thing I can think of.
[18:56] <gremble> a quine?
[18:56] <solidity> A program that outputs it's own source code.
[18:56] <solidity> its*
[18:56] <gremble> Oh, that is very neat
[18:57] <gremble> Comfort Eagle - CAKE
[18:57] <gremble> I like this band
[18:57] <solidity> My other programming endeavors weren't as impressive, even if they were much bigger projects.
[18:57]  * solidity cries a little.
[18:57] <gremble> :p
[18:58] <Kilos> solidity  get into dev work
[18:58] <solidity> Nah, I got out of dev work.
[18:58] <Kilos> of join the ubuntu bug squad
[18:58] <solidity> I don't want to write code for someone else.
[18:58] <solidity> I have yet to meet devs that aren't overworked or stress at least half of the time.
[18:58] <Kilos> we not someone else man we are ubuntu
[18:59] <gremble> He is gentoo
[18:59] <gremble> :P
[18:59] <solidity> I'm learning haskell to write programs of my own interest.
[18:59] <Kilos> thats where all the stress comes from
[18:59] <gremble> I feel like dev companies tend to treat developers like intelligence factory workers :x
[18:59] <gremble> That is why I did not go into it
[19:00] <gremble> I could be wrong
[19:00] <gremble> But I didn't want to take that chance
[19:00] <solidity> In most cases yes.
[19:00] <Kilos> nono thats life
[19:00] <Kilos> use whoever you can and get as much as you can and pay less than you need to
[19:00] <rusbus> and charge as much as you can
[19:00] <Kilos> yes
[19:00] <rusbus> worst thing about my job
[19:00] <rusbus> our shit is so stupidly expensive
[19:00] <gremble> I am not playing that game.
[19:00] <rusbus> only the elite can afford it
[19:01] <rusbus> I haven't got a client who's house costs less than ~R10mil
[19:01] <Kilos> sjoe
[19:01] <rusbus> it's quite disgusting the amount of money they have
[19:01] <rusbus> it literally made me phyiscally ill a bit
[19:01] <rusbus> when I started
[19:02] <Kilos> wait till money crashes
[19:02] <Kilos> then see who hurts the worst
[19:02] <gremble> Haha >rusbus vomits in the lounge< "Sorry, I am allergic to your bank balance"
[19:02] <rusbus> I'm driving around with a guy who has been at the same company for 10 years, he is _THE_ foundation of the company, he makes about R6000 a month and he fixes systems for people who wipe their arses with R100 notes
[19:02] <solidity> http://goo.gl/TB5SgZ
[19:02] <rusbus> lol gremble 
[19:02] <gremble> You have a shit company rusbus :x
[19:03] <gremble> work for
[19:03] <gremble> not have
[19:03] <gremble> haha
[19:03] <rusbus> aye
[19:03] <rusbus> I wanna do a course
[19:03] <rusbus> then apply for a job at Derivco
[19:04] <solidity> I worked under two bosses that had no clue how to manage software projects. From what I see most managers don't. And it is the developers that have to pick up the slack and work overtime.
[19:04] <rusbus> managers in general (no offence to anyone here) have no clue what they're doing
[19:05] <solidity> I wouldn't know, I have only worked under 2 and they both sucked.
[19:05] <gremble> No one does >: But when I don't know how to do something, I can usually search for a solution
[19:05] <gremble> Working as a manager you cannot always
[19:05] <rusbus> I'm constantly going to building sites to manage their progress, if I don't then all our wall boxes, conduit, etc would be utter trash and we wouldn't be able to install our systems. 
[19:05] <solidity> Small sample size. But I do know of one or two acquantances that have worked under more competent management, namely, they were developers themselves.
[19:06] <rusbus> solidity incase you didn't know I'm Russ from shadowfire :p
[19:06] <rusbus> o/
[19:06] <solidity> I know.
[19:06] <rusbus> lel
[19:06] <rusbus> just checking
[19:06] <solidity> Rus the bus for us.
[19:07] <gremble> The Rus Bus
[19:07] <rusbus> like 10+ years ago my nick was Blade (long story) and I was quite well known (I guess) in the local scene mostly because it was very small and then one day I changed to Russ (because someone was using my nick in games) and half the people didn't realise Blade == Russ xD
[19:07] <solidity> On shadowfire?
[19:08] <gremble> I have been gremble my entire life and I get so pissed off if people use my nick in games >.>
[19:08] <rusbus> talking about shadowfire and games like cs 1.6
[19:08] <rusbus> ya
[19:08] <solidity> I have gone through quite a few nicknames.
[19:08] <rusbus> liquidity
[19:08] <gremble> Some tit used it for his github account and only started being active on it when I wanted to snag it
[19:08] <rusbus> vapouridity
[19:08] <rusbus> settled on solidity 
[19:08] <solidity> haha
[19:08] <solidity> plasmidity
[19:09] <rusbus> next up :D
[19:09] <rusbus> when you're done you can become sublimity
[19:09] <gremble> superconductitidy
[19:09] <rusbus> I want a super simple nick
[19:09] <rusbus> something hex maybe
[19:09] <rusbus> like
[19:09] <rusbus> 0x32
[19:09] <rusbus> :D
[19:10] <rusbus> or how about
[19:10] <rusbus> b10110101
[19:10] <rusbus> 0b10110101*
[19:10] <Kilos> Maaz  nickometer 0x32
[19:10] <Maaz> Kilos: 0x32 is 56.0% lame
[19:10] <rusbus> :(
[19:10] <gremble> Why 50 rusbus?
[19:11] <rusbus> Maaz nickometer Kilos 
[19:11] <Maaz> rusbus: Kilos is 0.0% lame
[19:11] <rusbus> YOH
[19:11] <Kilos> haha
[19:11] <rusbus> Maaz nickometer rusbus 
[19:11] <Maaz> rusbus: rusbus is 0.0% lame
[19:11] <rusbus> oh
[19:11] <rusbus> lame
[19:11] <rusbus> it checks if we're in here
[19:11] <Kilos> no
[19:11] <rusbus> Maaz nickometer solidity 
[19:11] <Maaz> rusbus: solidity is 0.0% lame
[19:11] <Kilos> it doesnt like funny characters
[19:11] <rusbus> I'm sure it does
[19:11] <gremble> It checks for special characters
[19:11] <rusbus> who's bot is this?
[19:11] <Kilos> ours
[19:11] <rusbus> Maaz nickometer 1337k1d5
[19:11] <Maaz> rusbus: 1337k1d5 is 99.7% lame
[19:11] <rusbus> who wrote it
[19:11] <rusbus> is what I meant
[19:11] <Kilos> written in python by our guys
[19:12] <solidity> Maaz nickometer 1
[19:12] <Maaz> solidity: 1 is 21.5% lame
[19:12] <solidity> Maaz nickometer !#$%^
[19:12] <gremble> rusbus: it is an ibid bot
[19:12] <Maaz> solidity: !#$%^ is 99.93% lame
[19:12] <rusbus> oh, rad
[19:12]  * rusbus tips hat to cocooncrash 
[19:12] <rusbus> Maaz botsnack
[19:12] <Maaz> YAY someone cares about me too!
[19:13] <rusbus> I wrote an ibid plugin
[19:13] <rusbus> what a learning curve that was
[19:13] <rusbus> :D
[19:13] <rusbus> I guess it wasn't TOO bad but the docs aren't complete
[19:14] <gremble> It is not really active :P Perhaps you can make it a project to get it up to date ;P
[19:14] <Kilos> you can get help in atrum on #ibid
[19:14] <rusbus> ibid is way above my head
[19:14] <rusbus> ya Kilos 
[19:14] <rusbus> I did
[19:14] <rusbus> but help is sparse
[19:14] <rusbus> I know they're busy guys
[19:14] <Kilos> and a year ago you could get help here
[19:15] <Kilos> then that place stole our guys
[19:15] <rusbus> ibid taught me a decent amount about twisted
[19:15] <Kilos> silicon valley usa
[19:15] <rusbus> which I never knew b efore
[19:15] <rusbus> before*
[19:15] <rusbus> and I learnt how twisted actually pioneered a lot of asynchronous stuff
[19:15] <rusbus> python 3.0's tulip lib was based on it
[19:16] <rusbus> solidity teach me how to quine please :D
[19:17] <rusbus> does it actually read it's own guts and spill them
[19:17] <rusbus> or do you hard code it's guts to be spilled? :?
[19:18] <solidity> No, it just needs to output it's source code.
[19:18] <solidity> I suppose you could write a script that reads its own source file and outputs that.
[19:18] <rusbus> how did you do yours?
[19:18] <gremble> That is probably cheating :P
[19:18] <rusbus> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/QuineProgram.png
[19:18] <rusbus> wikipedia cheats
[19:19] <solidity> uhm
[19:19] <solidity> I wrote it in 2008.
[19:19] <rusbus> hop to it bro :D
[19:19] <gremble> That is what she said
[19:19] <solidity> hah
[19:20] <solidity> hrm
[19:20] <solidity> trying to think of how to explain now
[19:20] <rusbus> does it just read it's own file?
[19:20] <solidity> I got the inspiration after reading a book on genetics.
[19:21] <solidity> Mine didn't.
[19:21] <rusbus> or can it not read it while running?
[19:21] <gremble> It can read it while running
[19:21] <rusbus> so you programmed a sperm :D
[19:21] <solidity> I basically abstracted away various aspects of the source code as string variables, and the composited those as a kind of genetic string that reconstructed everything again.
[19:22] <rusbus> link it bro
[19:22] <rusbus> xD
[19:22] <solidity> I don't have it anymore.
[19:22] <rusbus> boo
[19:22] <solidity> I suppose I can try and rewrite it.
[19:22] <gremble> Do it in Haskell
[19:22] <rusbus> rewrite :D
[19:22] <inetpro> Kilos: pong
[19:22] <rusbus> DO IT IN HASKELL!
[19:22] <Kilos> ohi inetpro  
[19:22] <inetpro> goood mornings everyone
[19:22] <solidity> I'll just do it in python.
[19:22] <gremble> Hey inetpro 
[19:22] <rusbus> what was the response time on that ping?
[19:22] <solidity> heya
[19:24]  * rusbus is now listening to: perparadise - Flume Remix
[19:24] <rusbus> lol this plugin
[19:24] <rusbus> is so derpy
[19:28] <rusbus> solidity 
[19:28] <rusbus> I finished my quine
[19:28] <rusbus> time to battle to the death
[19:28] <solidity> I just finished downloading python,
[19:28] <solidity> :P
[19:28] <rusbus> lol
[19:28] <rusbus> I took long cause my atom was borked
[19:28] <gremble> Not having a mouse is kind of a pain in the ass
[19:29] <rusbus> trying to update a package
[19:29] <rusbus> gremble you should get that seen to
[19:29] <rusbus> your mouse should be on the table and not up your ass
[19:29] <inetpro> yikes!
[19:29] <inetpro> you guys talked too much while I was away
[19:30] <solidity> And now I have to remember python syntax.
[19:30] <rusbus> inetpro 
[19:30] <rusbus> we're on Quines
[19:30] <rusbus> get on board or get run over!
[19:30] <inetpro> no ways I can read all that
[19:30] <gremble> inetpro: There is nothing interesting. Don't worry
[19:30] <rusbus> inetpro we just spoke about haskell
[19:30] <inetpro> :-)
[19:30] <rusbus> and then learning languages in general
[19:30] <rusbus> programming*
[19:30] <rusbus> and now we're onto quines
[19:31] <rusbus> if you're a programmer feel free to post a quine in your favorite language
[19:32] <rusbus> learn you haskell is so expensive
[19:32] <rusbus> O_O
[19:32] <rusbus> $45
[19:32]  * inetpro googles for quines
[19:33] <rusbus> inetpro it's a program that prints out it's own sourcecode
[19:33] <inetpro> nevre heard of that in my life
[19:33] <gremble> You can read it for free on the internet
[19:33] <rusbus> gremble I prefer to read hard copy stuff
[19:33] <rusbus> or I'd just pirate everything :p
[19:33] <inetpro> ai!
[19:37] <gremble> Well you can pay up or just read it at learnyouahaskell.com/chapters
[19:37] <gremble> If you decide to pay up, buy a copy for me too
[19:37] <gremble> :P
[19:38] <rusbus> HEH
[19:38] <rusbus> not likely :p
[19:38] <rusbus> my mother is in the UK atm  
[19:38] <rusbus> and with SA postal being what it is
[19:38] <rusbus> I'm getting her to buy books for me
[19:38] <rusbus> :p
[19:38] <rusbus> off amazon she can have it in 2 days
[19:38] <rusbus> using regular postal
[19:38] <rusbus> :D
[19:39] <gremble> I need to get an Rpi so I can have a faster smart tv
[19:39] <gremble> >.>
[19:39] <rusbus> how is an rpi gonna make your smart tv faster?>
[19:39] <gremble> It will be the smart
[19:39] <gremble> and the tv can be dumb
[19:39] <rusbus> oh
[19:39] <rusbus> thats what I have
[19:39] <rusbus> it's a slow smart
[19:40] <rusbus> oh maybe RPi2 is fast
[19:40] <gremble> The tv is even slower
[19:40] <rusbus> don't go for the first model
[19:40] <gremble> The newest model is quite cheap already
[19:41] <rusbus> not what I'd call cheap but ok :p
[19:41] <rusbus> when I got my RPi
[19:41] <rusbus> I needed to buy the power source
[19:41] <rusbus> the SD card
[19:41] <rusbus> etc
[19:41] <rusbus> it came to over R1k!
[19:41] <gremble> That is very expensive
[19:41] <gremble> :P
[19:41] <rusbus> then I bought a Udoo
[19:41] <rusbus> which is 4x the power
[19:41] <rusbus> + a built in arduino mega
[19:41] <rusbus> and that cost me R1500
[19:41] <rusbus> with the power source included
[19:42] <rusbus> two SD cards each with it's own OS
[19:42] <rusbus> etc
[19:42] <rusbus> BARGAIN.
[19:42] <gremble> :P
[19:43]  * rusbus is waiting on solidity 
[19:43] <gremble> I am watching the lego movie now :P
[19:43] <rusbus> I still haven't seen it :(
[19:43] <solidity> You will have to wait a while.
[19:43] <rusbus> why?
[19:44] <solidity> Because I'm trying to remember what I did.
[19:44] <rusbus> lol
[19:44] <rusbus> I wanna show you mine but I don't want you to be like "there it is" and not do yours :p
[19:44] <solidity> How many lines is yours?
[19:44] <rusbus> I don't want to say
[19:44] <gremble> :P
[19:44] <rusbus> xD
[19:45] <solidity> haha
[19:45] <rusbus> how many should it be?
[19:45] <rusbus> how many are you at atm?
[19:45] <gremble> All of them
[19:45] <rusbus> I'm racking my brain trying to make it shorter
[19:45] <rusbus> but I can't
[19:45] <rusbus> (yet)
[19:45] <solidity> Doesn't matter, if I recall mine was 20 something lines, so if yours is shorted it could be a differently written one.
[19:45] <rusbus> gremble do a haskell quine plx thx :p
[19:45] <solidity> My brother showed my a quine that was 3 or 4 lines.
[19:45] <rusbus> well I'm sure that mine is written differently then
[19:45] <solidity> me*
[19:46] <solidity> Mine isn't exactly the elegant solution.
[19:46] <gremble> This makes me want to build lego 
[19:46] <gremble> :(
[19:46] <rusbus> ok so I googled
[19:46] <rusbus> and found this
[19:47] <rusbus> "Technically, the shortest Python quine is the empty file."
[19:47] <rusbus> doh
[19:47] <solidity> har
[19:47] <rusbus> python quine.py outputs nothing
[19:47] <rusbus> :D?
[19:48] <rusbus> ok I found the shortest python quine
[19:48] <rusbus> it's this:
[19:48] <rusbus> _='_=%r;print _%%_';print _%_\n
[19:48] <rusbus> mine errors on the \n
[19:48] <rusbus> but apparently it should be there
[19:49] <rusbus> ohhhhhhh this one is good
[19:49] <rusbus> print open(__file__).read()
[19:49] <rusbus> 27 chars long
[19:51] <solidity> I have not written code this ugly in a long time.
[19:51] <rusbus> lol
[19:53] <rusbus> I'm trying to think if I can use a  lambda to shorten my quine
[19:53] <rusbus> ]but now that I've seen the sneakily short quines out there I feel like I'm wasting my time :p
[19:54] <rusbus> cause I know it's verbose in comparison
[19:54] <solidity> I should mention I know very little python.
[19:54]  * rusbus whips solidity 
[19:54] <rusbus> MUSH!
[19:54] <solidity> I'm getting there.
[19:59] <Kilos> wb gremble  
[19:59] <gremble> Thank you
[20:00] <Kilos> aw i didnt even chat to squish102  
[20:00] <gremble> Sometimes I have to reboot this system
[20:00] <Kilos> squish102  you here?
[20:00] <rusbus> gremble you missed a lot
[20:00] <rusbus> solidity showed us the best quine ever
[20:02] <gremble> Oh?
[20:02] <gremble> show me again?
[20:02] <solidity> It was the king of all quines.
[20:02] <solidity> I will in a sec, I just have to actually finish it first.
[20:02] <solidity> :P
[20:02] <rusbus> gremble it's too good to repeat
[20:02] <rusbus> even though it can repeat itself
[20:02] <rusbus> dommot solidity 
[20:02] <rusbus> foils my jest
[20:03] <solidity> I threw rus under the bus.
[20:05] <rusbus> :c
[20:12] <solidity> ok done
[20:12] <rusbus> LINK
[20:12] <rusbus> :D
[20:13] <solidity> feast your eyes on this monstrosity: http://pastebin.com/ThRhwdgZ
[20:13] <rusbus> ok first off
[20:14] <rusbus> the " " thing
[20:14] <rusbus> is normally disallowed
[20:14] <rusbus> :p
[20:14] <rusbus> but that is pretty damn cool
[20:15] <solidity> That is just a shorthand for escaping quotes?
[20:15] <rusbus> ya
[20:15] <rusbus> well
[20:15] <rusbus> it's the same number of chars really
[20:15] <rusbus> if you do "''" or
[20:15] <rusbus> \"\"
[20:15] <solidity> "\"" is also disallowed?
[20:15] <rusbus> 4 either way
[20:15] <rusbus> I dunno
[20:15] <rusbus> I don't know all the rules :p
[20:16] <solidity> I don't think there are any really.
[20:16] <solidity> It just has to output its source code, and reading the source file is kind of lame.
[20:16] <rusbus> na there are
[20:16] <rusbus> oh
[20:16] <rusbus> well
[20:16] <rusbus> then I'm lame
[20:16] <rusbus> ;c
[20:17] <solidity> Where are these rules?
[20:17] <rusbus> I just read some stuff
[20:17] <solidity> And who came up with them?
[20:17] <rusbus> people were doing them
[20:17] <rusbus> and said don't do x or y
[20:17] <rusbus> no idea
[20:17] <solidity> I suppose it is degrees of difficulty.
[20:17] <solidity> Or to try different approaches.
[20:18] <solidity> Think about mine is you need to know just the basics of syntax to do it.
[20:18] <solidity> thing*
[20:18] <rusbus> before you said the thing about reading source file
[20:18] <rusbus> this was what I made
[20:18] <rusbus> http://paste2.org/6O666Lv8
[20:19] <solidity> hehe
[20:19] <solidity> I thought about doing that too.
[20:19] <solidity> ah
[20:20] <solidity> "A quine is a non-empty computer program which takes no input and produces a copy of its own source code as its only output."
[20:20] <solidity> >takes no input
[20:20] <rusbus> as in
[20:20] <rusbus> just run it
[20:20] <solidity> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quine_%28computing%29
[20:20] <rusbus> I can shorten mine a taaaaaad
[20:20] <rusbus> with open(__file__) as f:
[20:20] <rusbus>     for l in f.readlines():
[20:20] <rusbus>         print l
[20:22]  * inetpro calling it a day
[20:22] <inetpro> good night
[20:22] <solidity> Since mine is built on genetic principles you could introduce mutations to it and see how it develops. :P
[20:22] <rusbus> night inetpro 
[20:22] <solidity> night
[20:22] <Kilos> night inetpro  
[20:22] <Kilos> sleep tight
[20:22] <Kilos> night all, sleep tight, much warmer in bed
[20:22] <rusbus> solidity 
[20:22] <rusbus> print open(__file__).read()
[20:22] <rusbus> BOOM
[20:22] <solidity> Although most mutations would probably result in immediate runtime errors.
[20:22] <Kilos> see you tomorrow
[20:22] <rusbus> BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
[20:22] <rusbus> night Kilos 
[20:23] <solidity> night
[20:23] <Kilos> if squish102  answers tell him ill chat to him tomorrow
[20:23] <Kilos> or her
[20:23] <solidity> doesn't "open(__file__).read() count as taking input?
[20:23] <Kilos> ty
[20:23] <rusbus> him
[20:23] <rusbus> no
[20:23] <rusbus> I run it like this
[20:23] <Kilos> oh you know him
[20:23] <rusbus> "python quine.py"
[20:23] <rusbus> I don't do this
[20:23] <rusbus> "python quine.py myinputgoeshere"
[20:23] <rusbus> yes Kilos 
[20:23] <rusbus> :)
[20:23] <Kilos> cool
[20:23] <inetpro> Maaz: watch them
[20:23] <Maaz> OK inetpro I'll keep an eye on them for you
[20:23] <rusbus> he's in murica
[20:23] <Kilos> thanks then
[20:23] <rusbus> so his timezone is whack
[20:23] <Kilos> aha
[20:24] <Kilos> yah i deal with lots of them
[20:24] <rusbus> 'them'
[20:24] <rusbus> xSD
[20:24] <rusbus> xD
[20:24] <solidity> You don't pass any arguments to it but the program itself fetches input?
[20:24] <Kilos> oh superfly  did we greet today?
[20:24] <Kilos> if not hi fly
[20:24] <rusbus> hmm solidity 
[20:25] <rusbus> I see what you're saying
[20:25] <rusbus> I think that's a philosophical thing
[20:25] <rusbus> what is taking input really? :p
[20:25] <rusbus> I interpreted it as you don't pass anything to it on the command line
[20:26] <solidity> I think the point is that all the information is self contained, but I suppose your example doesn't break the rules because it runs under the exact same conditions mine does.
[20:27] <solidity> does yours work if you paste it into the interactive interpreter?
[20:27] <solidity> instead of launching it from a file?
[20:28] <rusbus> let me try
[20:29] <rusbus> I don't know why I tried it
[20:29] <rusbus> the outcome was obvious
[20:29] <rusbus> since mine reads from a file
[20:29] <rusbus> it's gonna fail
[20:29] <rusbus> it's not running from a file if it's in the interactive interpreter
[20:29] <rusbus> :D
[20:29] <solidity> So I think I win then.
[20:29] <solidity> MUHAHAHAH
[20:29] <rusbus> if we agree on your rules, then yes
[20:29] <rusbus> but like I said
[20:29] <rusbus> this argument is a philosophical one
[20:31] <solidity> http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Quine
[20:31] <solidity> according to this you are breaking the rules
[20:32] <rusbus> :(
[20:33] <solidity> wait I take that back
[20:33] <solidity> "You are not allowed to read any external files with the source code."
[20:33] <rusbus> is the source code itself an external file?
[20:33] <solidity> import sys; sys.stdout.write(open(sys.argv[0]).read())
[20:34] <solidity> is one of the examples they give for python
[20:34] <rusbus> rofl
[20:34] <rusbus> solidity 
[20:34] <rusbus> I was writing something like that
[20:34] <solidity> But it is not the source code itself that is the program being run, the source code is compiled/interpreted into a program which then runs so the file it is compiled from is an external file.
[20:34] <rusbus> if we rewind a bit
[20:35] <rusbus> I was saying that you can't send it input on the command line?
[20:35] <rusbus> if our code is this
[20:35] <rusbus> import sys; print sys.argv[1]
[20:35] <rusbus> and call it like this
[20:35] <rusbus> python quine.py "import sys; print sys.argv[1]"
[20:35] <rusbus> then it's shorter
[20:35] <rusbus> :p
[20:35] <rusbus> but this is why you can't give it command line input cause that'd drastically reduce it's length
[20:36] <solidity> Well, the .py file is not the program itself if I'm not mistaken.
[20:36] <solidity> just like .cpp files aren't the program itself for c++ programs
[20:37] <solidity> if I recall you can run .pyc files?
[20:37] <solidity> and that won't work with your example?
[20:37] <rusbus> never tried to run them directly
[20:37] <rusbus> no
[20:37] <rusbus> it doesn't work
[20:37] <rusbus> says can't open file
[20:37] <rusbus> doesn't exist :D
[20:37] <solidity> heh
[20:42] <solidity> Well, I like mine more anyway :P
[21:10] <rusbus> lol
[21:10] <rusbus> yours is way longer ;)
[21:12] <solidity> That's what she said.
[21:12] <rusbus> touche.
[21:21] <solidity> :^)
[21:25] <gremble> o/
[21:26] <solidity> o/
[21:26] <solidity> Also, have you played eve online before?
[21:27] <Cryterion> eve?
[21:27] <Cryterion> Oh and hi everyone
[21:28] <solidity> a mmorpg that is basically spreadsheets in space with big laser discos all the time
[21:28] <gremble> haha
[21:28] <gremble> What I hear about eve is that it is a lot of work
[21:28] <solidity> hi
[21:28] <Cryterion> hmm, think I heard about it
[21:28] <gremble> I sometimes play Tera but that is about the only game that I play
[21:28] <solidity> yeah, I was just curious because o/ is the standard way to greet people in eve.
[21:28] <gremble> Oh, that is the standard way that I greet people
[21:28] <gremble> :P
[21:28] <Cryterion> time consuming like evony is I guess
[21:29] <solidity> Eve is like, adopting a second life.
[21:29] <solidity> Part of me wants to play it again, but the other part of me wants to achieve something in life.
[21:30] <Cryterion> rather try Illyraid, I play that, deep strategy, but is a slow paced game
[21:30] <gremble> Dwarf Fortress?
[21:30] <Cryterion> don't know it
[21:31] <solidity> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdfFnTt2UT0
[21:31] <gremble> Old game, started as a PhD project
[21:31] <gremble> Turing complete 
[21:32] <gremble> :P
[21:32] <gremble> It has massive depth
[21:32] <gremble> https://xkcd.com/1223/
[21:35] <solidity> If I ever play an mmo again it will be eve, because I still can't think of any other mmo that comes close to being as awesome. :P
[21:36] <solidity> Right now all I play is xcom(the first one).
[21:40] <gremble> Oh, I saw that
[21:41]  * Cryterion goes to check on him troops in illyriad
[21:44] <gremble> i am playing nethack
[21:44] <gremble> and I have no idea what I am doing
[21:44] <gremble> xD
[21:45] <solidity> nice
[21:45] <solidity> I think I'll give Dwarf Fortress a try sometime.
[21:45] <solidity> And Nethack too.
[21:46] <solidity> since I only have a cheap laptop that can't play much.
[21:46] <Cryterion> shouldn't stop you playing html5 based games
[21:47] <solidity> For sure.
[21:47] <gremble> or ncurses based games
[21:47] <gremble> :P
[21:49] <solidity> There are many games, and we only have time to play a few.
[21:50] <Cryterion> Stay away from evony then
[21:52] <gremble> :P
[21:52] <rusbus> [23:27:39] <solidity> a mmorpg that is basically spreadsheets in space with big laser discos all the time
[21:52] <gremble> So we make more
[21:53] <rusbus> lol best description
[21:53] <solidity> I still have some many games from ages ago I need to finish.
[21:53] <solidity> Like xcom
[21:54] <solidity> It's amazing how much I know about this game without ever actually having finished it. :P
[21:54] <rusbus> o/ is like
[21:54] <rusbus> as old as the internet
[21:54] <rusbus> way older than eve
[21:54] <rusbus> prolly originated from IRC too
[21:54] <solidity> For sure, I just rarely see it outside of eve.
[21:57] <gremble> I'm watching the deadspace movie. It is quite...explicit
[21:57] <gremble> :P
[21:57] <rusbus> there is a dead space movie?
[21:57] <rusbus> is it gorey?
[21:57] <gremble> Yes it is
[21:57] <gremble> It is animated
[21:57] <solidity> I am shuffling around files and partitions.
[21:57] <gremble> So it is very gorey
[22:00] <solidity> How does it compare to Event Horizon?
[22:01] <rusbus> so like
[22:01] <rusbus> gremble solidity 
[22:01] <rusbus> where you guys from
[22:01] <rusbus> and that sort of stuff
[22:02] <solidity> Cape Town, Northern Suburbs
[22:02] <solidity> Yourself?
[22:02] <rusbus> and the other sort of stuff
[22:02] <rusbus> amanzimtoti
[22:02] <rusbus> (30km south of durbs)
[22:03] <gremble> This movie makes me feel lkike I felt playing the game
[22:04] <gremble> I am from Pretoria
[22:05] <Cryterion> hmm, Durban
[22:05]  * rusbus holds a knife to Cryterion 
[22:05] <rusbus> what of it?
[22:06] <gremble> Sho
[22:06] <gremble> :P
[22:06] <rusbus> xD
[22:06]  * Cryterion drives past rusbus everyday and he always misses
[22:06] <rusbus> orly
[22:06] <rusbus> where you from Cryterion 
[22:06] <rusbus> I might *LITERALLY* drive past you daily
[22:06] <rusbus> (ride*)
[22:06] <Cryterion> Queensburgh, Durban
[22:06] <rusbus> cool, I have some friends there
[22:07] <rusbus> I ride past on the N2 daily
[22:07] <Cryterion> Workshop is in Scottbourgh, so on the N2 south up down daily
[22:08] <gremble> I went on holiday to Scottbourgh once
[22:09] <rusbus> oh thats cool
[22:09] <kulelu88> you okes love the coast
[22:09] <rusbus> not everyday you come across someone from north of toti travelling south of toti
[22:09] <rusbus> we're like the barrier
[22:09] <rusbus> :p
[22:09] <Cryterion> I still need to practice my casting from office window, to see if can that hook at least into the water while working
[22:09] <gremble> I dislike going to the beach
[22:10] <Cryterion> I like fishing
[22:10] <gremble> My father used to like that a lot
[22:10] <gremble> I can't sit still long enough
[22:10] <solidity> You can walk on beaches, or run, do cartwheels.
[22:10] <solidity> The whole lot.
[22:11] <Cryterion> rusbus: yep, roads nice travelling, I'm always opposite to traffic load
[22:12] <Cryterion> gremble: patience is the key, but when that fish bites, have fun
[22:12] <rusbus> aye, I'd love to work south bound
[22:12] <kulelu88> the beach aint for chilling. beach football, beach volleyball, surfing, kite-surfing, wind-surfing, snorkling and smoking zol (if thats your thing)
[22:12] <solidity> what is it for then?
[22:13]  * Cryterion goes hmm, where is that thing
[22:13] <kulelu88> ^^
[22:13] <gremble> Good evening kulelu88 :P
[22:13] <kulelu88> good evening gremble-sun
[22:19] <gremble> I need a blanky. It is rather cold
[22:21] <kulelu88> more like kak-cold
[22:21] <gremble> If you take a dump and it is this cold, you really need to see a doctor abou tit
[22:21] <gremble> it*
[22:22] <rusbus> solidity - my quine doesn't print comments
[22:22] <rusbus> just a random thought i just had :p
[22:25] <solidity> really?
[22:25] <solidity> Oh well, I don't really know how python works in detail.
[22:25] <kulelu88> KZN guys, it is possible to surf at night in winter?
[22:25] <rusbus> yes
[22:26] <kulelu88> rusbus: show your code, I may be able to help
[22:26] <Cryterion> yes
[22:26] <Cryterion> and go skying
[22:26] <gremble> skying?
[22:26] <rusbus> I don't need help, thanks kulelu88 :)
[22:26] <kulelu88> gremble: we're missing out mate
[22:26] <rusbus> I love skying.
[22:26] <Cryterion> burg is just up the road
[22:26] <gremble> What is skying?
[22:26] <kulelu88> skiing
[22:26] <gremble> Oh
[22:26] <gremble> That makes more sense
[22:26] <kulelu88> ='D
[22:27] <Cryterion> surf morn, sky lunch time, surf to close the evening
[22:27] <gremble> Sharks are nocturnal
[22:27] <kulelu88> and prefer capetonian meat
[22:27] <Cryterion> well, up to you
[22:27] <gremble> :P
[22:27] <Cryterion> feed time is sunrise and sunset btw
[22:27] <gremble> Only some
[22:28] <gremble> Feeding time depends on the species
[22:28] <kulelu88> I shall soon be a surfer too
[22:28] <rusbus> I swam with some raggies
[22:28] <Cryterion> and area atm, durbans nets are up
[22:28] <rusbus> on aliwal shoal
[22:28] <rusbus> a place called raggies cave
[22:28] <rusbus> those okes aren't interested in my meat at all
[22:29] <rusbus> maybe the sharks just friendzoned me
[22:29] <rusbus> :(
[22:29] <gremble> Only explanation
[22:29] <Cryterion> maybe
[22:29] <kulelu88> they bro-zoned you cause you don't code Java. #fistbump
[22:29] <Cryterion> but might build up now, sard's are one their way
[22:29] <rusbus> just happens that I'm teaching myself java
[22:29] <rusbus> (as we speak, too!)
[22:30] <gremble> No
[22:30] <kulelu88> Is it the sardines or the fact that the sharks know its gunsten?
[22:30] <gremble> Don't do it
[22:30] <gremble> You don't have to do that to yourself
[22:30] <rusbus> but I do :(
[22:30] <kulelu88> fuuuu!!!! fjavaaaa!
[22:30] <solidity> I'm gladdened by the fact that I will probably never have to deal with java.
[22:30] <Cryterion> Best way to learn rusbus, that's how i've always done it
[22:30] <rusbus> hmm?
[22:31] <Cryterion> Sharks will follow the dolphins, dolphins follow the sards
[22:31] <Cryterion> and other thing
[22:31] <rusbus> I'm pretty sure sharks don't follow dolphins?
[22:32] <Cryterion> maybe wrong, but only 4 species out of about 200 have ever attacked humans
[22:33] <gremble> I wasn't being serious. Sharks are cool
[22:33] <gremble> they're generaly chill-bro'
[22:33] <gremble> s
[22:33] <kulelu88> Until they verse the bulls. then fuuuuuu Sharks!
[22:38] <Cryterion> Wait till next year, Sharks are the ones that aren't scared to try a new stratergy
[22:40] <gremble> I played a rugby game once
[22:41] <rusbus> I was in a team once
[22:42] <Cryterion> I stuck to medic side
[22:43] <solidity> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/19/great-white-shark-jumps-boat
[22:44] <gremble> Hippos do that too
[22:44] <gremble> I am more scared of them :x
[22:44] <Cryterion> Go on a boat, upset a hippo, and it'll follow you around all day
[22:45] <solidity> hippo just wants to be your friend
[22:45] <gremble> They're fat and angry
[22:45] <gremble> That is what they are
[22:45] <Cryterion> Just don't make a fire
[22:46] <solidity> They are angry because no one wants to be their friends which is why they overeat too.
[22:46] <solidity> They are also cold most of the time.
[22:46] <gremble> I think solidity is a hippo in disguise
[22:46] <gremble> Trying to get us to trust them
[22:46] <Cryterion> Hippo can move at 30km/h in water
[22:46] <gremble> So that they can kill us
[22:47] <gremble> On the internet no one knows that you're a hippo
[22:47] <solidity> LIES AND SLANDER! HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE THE NOBLE HIPPO TO STOOP TO SUCH LOW TACTICS AS IMPERSONATING THEIR PREY IN ORDER TO EAT THEM!
[22:47] <Cryterion> rotflmao
[22:48] <solidity> :P
[22:48] <Cryterion> missed the f in there lol
[22:49] <gremble> You missed an f?
[22:49] <gremble> How many do you want
[22:49] <Cryterion> only the 1
[22:49] <solidity> our or ive I think is suiccient
[22:50] <rusbus> ok so
[22:50] <rusbus> I'm buying that haskell book
[22:50] <rusbus> it is settled.
[22:50] <Cryterion> Not sure 
[22:51] <solidity> which one?
[22:51] <rusbus> learn you some haskell
[22:51] <rusbus> :D
[22:51] <solidity> I'm torn between physical books and ebooks.
[22:51] <rusbus> just don't tear the books
[22:51] <rusbus> I feel I learn better from physical books
[22:51] <rusbus> but ebooks are just too easy to pirate >:D
[22:52] <solidity> Because I love physical books, but I have a thing against having all these books you have to store and lug around and whatnot.
[22:52] <kulelu88> rusbus is doing that thing where you learn to learn to learn and not write any software
[22:52] <rusbus> hmm?
[22:54] <solidity> That is more me.
[22:56] <gremble> solidity: perhaps look at this http://bitemyapp.com/posts/2014-12-31-functional-education.html
[22:56] <gremble> rusbus: ^ 
[22:57] <rusbus> kulelu88?
[23:01] <kulelu88> hello?
[23:01] <rusbus> nvm I guess
[23:03] <kulelu88> rusbus: ?? oh my comment. well you see. you said you were learning Java... then buying a book on Haskell ... then you'd probably want to learn Go also. language-foo, and it takes a while to actually get comfortable with any language, so it wastes time if you arent a student or something
[23:03] <rusbus> I see no problem in trying out multiple languages?
[23:03] <rusbus> I don't want a job programming haskell
[23:04] <rusbus> but I'd like to get into it, at least just a little bit
[23:04] <rusbus> buying a book is not marrying the language
[23:05] <kulelu88> true, but what are your intentions. Do you need to code something or is this your pasttime?
[23:05] <rusbus> the latter
[23:05] <kulelu88> aahh you should chill here more often. gremble codes haskell for fun also
[23:06] <rusbus> well my bouncer is connected here
[23:06] <rusbus> so ya
[23:06] <rusbus> you'll see me more
[23:06] <gremble> There has been a surge of new faces
[23:06] <gremble> It is quite nice
[23:07] <rusbus> MaNI's fault
[23:08] <solidity> thanks gremble
[23:08] <rusbus> we're from shadowfire
[23:08] <kulelu88> what's that?
[23:08] <solidity> for the haskell info
[23:08] <rusbus> for this
[23:08] <rusbus> http://bitemyapp.com/posts/2014-12-31-functional-education.html
[23:08] <gremble> solidity: that guy has some momentum in the haskell community, so I wouldn't offhandedly disregard his opinions on learning it :P
[23:09] <solidity> I don't care about that really, what he says makes enough sense to me to look at what he recommends.
[23:10] <kulelu88> what is shadowfire?
[23:10] <rusbus> south african IRC network
[23:10] <gremble> it is an irc network kulelu88 
[23:10] <rusbus> irc.shadowfire.org
[23:11] <kulelu88> whoa! we have 1 of those haha
[23:11] <gremble> We had a channel there for the UP cos department
[23:11] <rusbus> I think there is only Atrum and ShadowFire left 
[23:11] <rusbus> (regarding SA IRC servers)
[23:11] <kulelu88> any popular channels?
[23:11] <gremble> solidity: I am looking at that course at UPenn and it looks really cool so far
[23:11] <rusbus> shadowfire has seen a massive decrease in numbers the past 2 or so years
[23:11] <solidity> same
[23:11] <rusbus> like a HUGE decline
[23:12] <kulelu88> all the users in australia now or "whatsapp group" :/
[23:12] <kulelu88> *?
[23:13] <rusbus> er, what?
[23:13] <solidity> All the rural irc network settlements are being abandoned in favour of the big urban sprawl that is freenode.
[23:14] <kulelu88> I think solidity gets me ='D
[23:14] <kulelu88> ='''''''''''D
[23:14] <solidity> I wonder about that.
[23:16] <gremble> I will murder someone if they add me on a whatsapp group and use it like IRC
[23:18] <solidity> So for some reason the haskell platform install wants 1.2 gb of disk space.
[23:19] <solidity> The install file is 132mb
[23:19] <gremble> I have no idea
[23:19] <gremble> I don't remember mine being that bing
[23:19] <gremble> big*
[23:20] <kulelu88> Does it use a vm like java?
[23:21] <gremble> Nope
[23:21] <gremble> It has a REPL interpreter and a compiler
[23:22] <gremble> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/4858585/why-is-ghc-so-large-big
[23:23] <gremble> Still doesn't say why you get it as 1.2GB
[23:23] <rusbus> so large big
[23:25] <gremble> I wonder what the fuck this cat eats. It farts death
[23:26] <solidity> ah
[23:26] <solidity> every lib comes in 4 flavours
[23:27] <solidity> Well, as long as the programs themselves aren't so massive :P
[23:28] <gremble> Fairly sure that the community would have complained if they were
[23:28] <gremble> xD
[23:29] <solidity> I don't know, people still use PHP.
[23:30] <solidity> Then again, the user base varies significantly (hopefully)
[23:30] <gremble> I read a quote today, "I am a PHP programmer and I have never maintained a bad codebase"
[23:31] <rusbus> what he means is he makes a bad codebase then abandons it
[23:31] <solidity> That twitter account?
[23:32] <solidity> hahaha
[23:32] <gremble> Yup
[23:35] <Cryterion> morning guys, I'm off to sleep
[23:37] <gremble> Cheers
[23:39] <solidity> laters
[23:39] <solidity> so
[23:39] <solidity> haskell ide
[23:39] <solidity> that isn't vim
[23:39] <solidity> or emacs
[23:39] <solidity> maybe I should just use vim
[23:41] <gremble> emacs is your best bet
[23:41] <gremble> :<
[23:41] <gremble> Remember to use spaces instead of tabs
[23:41] <solidity> :(
[23:41]  * solidity likes tabs.
[23:42] <gremble> tabs break things
[23:42] <solidity> like poorly programmed parsers!
[23:42] <solidity> bah humbug!
[23:43] <solidity> why emacs?
[23:44] <gremble> emacs has a really nice vim-mode
[23:46] <solidity> I'm going to try atom first
[23:49] <gremble> haskell-mode
[23:49] <gremble> I'm apparently on drugs
[23:50] <squish102> hmm anyone running a hadoop cluster on ubuntu?
[23:50] <squish102> i'm thinking i will have to put it on redhat
[23:52] <gremble> Im going to do the sleep thing
[23:53] <gremble> CHeers
[23:53] <solidity> night
[23:55] <solidity> also turning in, night
[23:56] <squish102> night
[23:57] <kulelu88> squish102: check for a docker container using ubuntu with hadoop
[23:59] <squish102> kulelu88: thanks, googling now