[02:41]  * ruttle waves
[07:33] <johndave> hello
[14:26] <n-iCe> hello
[15:21] <n-iCe> hiii
[15:22] <n-iCe> !hello
[15:22] <n-iCe> @hello
[21:38] <New_to_Linux> Testing, testing. Is anyone there?
[21:39] <New_to_Linux> Hello
[21:42] <wxl> New_to_Linux: the rule with irc, is just ask away :)
[21:42] <wxl> believe it or not, support channels usually don't get much chat
[21:44] <New_to_Linux> Oh okay. I want to know if the Lubuntu torrent is free and legal. I'm new to torrents and I don't want to get into trouble
[21:45] <wxl> New_to_Linux: yep. the foss community uses legal torrents a lot.
[21:45] <wxl> New_to_Linux: since the software is free and open source, it's licensed in such a way that allows any sort of distribution.
[21:46] <New_to_Linux> Now is it a virtual machine box like VMWare? Okay that sounds good. I also don't know which one to download
[21:47] <teward> New_to_Linux: Desktop amd64 if you're doing it in a VM
[21:47] <teward> and yes, VMware is fine to run it in, I do that for ISO tests
[21:48] <teward> (during the dev cycle)
[21:48] <teward> *looks at wxl* And wxl knows this, too >:)
[21:49] <New_to_Linux> I'm on a PC laptop, pretty old. It will be ten years old next year
[21:49] <wxl> well, amd64 is a safe assumption for new hardware
[21:50] <wxl> anyways, the torrents and isos in general are NOT vms
[21:50] <wxl> however, they are images that can be installed in a vm
[21:50] <wxl> personally, i'd suggest grabbing i386 desktop if i were you
[21:50] <wxl> and grab alternate if you're particularly low on resources and/or avoid guis :)
[21:51] <guest8574> Does anyone know what would cause poor GTK performance?
[21:51] <wxl> guest8574: if you want a specific answer, you may consider being more specific, and in particular, quantifying things.
[21:52] <New_to_Linux> What's the alternative for a laptop? I want to download indie games without the risk of getting viruses. I have anti-virus software but outdated. I'm quite broke so I'm using what I have
[21:52] <guest8574> I just tried booting a live CD of Lubuntu on an old laptop, and the drawing of GTK widgets is really slow.
[21:52] <New_to_Linux> I'm doing this for freelance writing to make money as well. That's why I want the Lubuntu.
[21:52] <guest8574> I can open up some config dialog, and see a blank window for half a second before it gets filled by widgets.
[21:54] <guest8574> And the widgets are slow to redraw when I drag a window over them. In Windows XP, every single drawing event is instantaneous. You don't see all these ugly artifacts.
[21:54] <wxl> New_to_Linux: you should have no problem downloading games in linux without getting viruses.
[21:54] <wxl> guest8574: this is on the same machine?
[21:55] <guest8574> Yes. XP and Lubuntu on an EeePC 1000HD.
[21:55] <wxl> guest8574: if you don't have much memory, that may be the problem. live loads the whole OS in memory.
[21:55] <wxl> guest8574: try loading windows live if you want a good comparison >:)
[21:56] <New_to_Linux> So Lubuntu doesn't have a virtual machine like VMware. right?
[21:56] <Kamilion> several
[21:56] <wxl> New_to_Linux: lubuntu can be a guest or host for virtual amchines.
[21:56] <guest8574> New_to_Linux: VMware works on Lubuntu.
[21:57] <Kamilion> kvm, xen, virtualbox, vmware workstation, vmware player.
[21:57] <guest8574> As well as VirtualBox, Qemu, DOSBox.
[21:57] <Kamilion> if you wanna play with xen or kvm, they're preinstalled on my lubuntu remix for virtualization here: https://github.com/kamilion/kamikazi-deploy
[21:58] <wxl> +1 for kvm
[22:01] <Kamilion> guest8574: likely the laptop is not running with accelerated graphics. Everything must be rendered by the CPU pixel by pixel in that case.
[22:02] <Kamilion> I have the same problem on big servers with old ATI video chips.
[22:02] <Kamilion> but it's also pretty common for the older intel integrated video units like the i810
[22:03] <guest8574> Kamilion: I do have hardware acceleration.
[22:03] <guest8574> glxinfo | grep rendering
[22:03] <guest8574> direct rendering: Yes
[22:03] <Kamilion> we all do. MESA does software rendering of GL and has for ~15+ years
[22:03] <guest8574> And glxgears runs at 60 FPS.
[22:03] <Kamilion> Huh.
[22:03] <Kamilion> And it's only GTK?
[22:04] <Kamilion> which video adapter is X detecting?
[22:04] <Kamilion> also, just because you can blit some polygons at a screen doesn't mean anything
[22:04] <wxl> i remind us this is again in live
[22:04] <Kamilion> glxgears gives me 1458 FPS for a $30 geforce 610
[22:05] <Kamilion> even my cruddy old laptop did glxgears at ~400ish
[22:05] <Kamilion> so if you're only seeing 60, something is amiss.
[22:06] <guest8574> My monitor's refresh rate is 60 Hz, so that's maybe why.
[22:06] <Kamilion> no, that just limits the frames you can actually see -- a GPU can render far faster than 60hz for simple geometry
[22:07] <Kamilion> it's when you start getting into texture and lighting and shaders and full screen antialiasing that the performance comes down to what the monitor can display.
[22:08] <guest8574> It even says so. http://pastebin.com/PtD7aCJz
[22:09] <Kamilion> guest8574: http://puu.sh/ihy14/07a1a1ad3b.jpg
[22:10] <Kamilion> this is a VM with no GPU passthrough and it's still getting ~700FPS.
[22:11] <guest8574> When I run glxgears, it says that it synchronizes to the refresh rate. I don't know how to do otherwise.
[22:12] <Kamilion> http://puu.sh/ihy9l/27f225b324.jpg
[22:12] <Kamilion> you can see here by my opengl renderer that it's software rendering.
[22:13] <Kamilion> i assume you're stuck with VSYNC because you're using a 2D only video adapter.
[22:13] <Kamilion> what's this say: glxinfo | grep "OpenGL "
[22:14] <Kamilion> (don't forget the space at the end of OpenGL )
[22:22] <Kamilion> huh, i can't seem to get that output no matter where i try, guest8574
[22:23] <Kamilion> tried six PCs and so far no instances of "Running synchronized to the vertical refresh.  The framerate should be approximately the same as the monitor refresh rate." message is appearing