[03:09] <mapp> hi ;D
[03:18] <daftykins> mornin'
[03:19] <mapp> ;]
[03:19] <mapp> slept or still up?:)
[03:20] <daftykins> does it matter
[03:20] <mapp> no
[03:20] <mapp> just wondered';[
[03:21] <daftykins> ^_^
[03:21] <mapp> was just making conversation;[
[03:22] <mapp> on last ep of aquarius now!
[03:23] <daftykins> hah
[03:23] <daftykins> i'm continuing this amazon prime series 'Bosch' which i read a book that it's based on, of
[03:23] <mapp> seen it!
[03:23] <mapp> was decent
[03:23] <mapp> hat ep you on?
[03:23] <mapp> *what
[03:24] <daftykins> #2
[03:26] <daftykins> i watched the pilot for free on this FireTV stick thing
[03:26] <daftykins> now, slightly amusingly, i'm watching the whole lot via Kodi on the same toy :>
[03:31] <mapp> hm not sure what Kodi is
[03:31] <mapp> will google in sec;)
[03:53] <daftykins> XBMCs new name
[05:31] <knightwise> Kodi linux ?
[05:31] <knightwise> good morning btw peeps
[06:04] <mapp> morning
[06:04] <mapp> my throat hurts :(
[06:04] <mapp> damn cigarettes
[06:04] <mapp> finished 13 eps of Aquarius in 3 days;D
[06:08] <knightwise> Aquarius ?
[06:11] <mapp> yea
[06:11] <mapp> new series on cbs i think 13 eps
[06:11] <mapp> about charles manson
[06:11] <mapp> it's 'ok'
[06:11] <mapp> nothing to write home about
[06:11] <mapp> Wayward Pines way better in terms of new series
[06:11] <knightwise> We are watching "Boss" with Kelsey Grammar
[06:12] <knightwise> very good show. But we can manage about one episode every night
[06:12] <mapp> hmmm i think i saw some
[06:12] <mapp> did it get canned?
[06:13] <mapp> I loe my nexus7 take it to work to watch tv eps in breaks ..use it for when i fly..when i get trains etc;D
[06:20] <knightwise> mapp: i think it got canned after season 2 , not sure
[06:21] <knightwise> We hardly watch any tv at all
[06:21] <knightwise> I think 1 hour a day ...
[06:21] <knightwise> Mapp , you should excersise more
[06:22] <mapp> i do
[06:22] <mapp> i go to spinning 2x/week
[06:22] <mapp> weights 3-4x
[06:22] <knightwise> whowh :)
[06:22] <mapp> sometimes go running in the am too:D
[06:22] <knightwise> you do more then i do  :p)
[06:22] <mapp> its nice running here always warm
[06:56] <Guest56354> hello all
[06:57] <MooDoo> that would be hello all
[06:58] <knightwise> Hello MooDoo
[06:59] <mapp> hello
[07:03] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[07:05] <mapp> whatup
[07:10] <brobostigon> morning mapp
[07:11] <mapp> sup pal
[07:11] <mapp> has anyne used iadyn? tryning to set afraid.org dns to auto update
[07:14]  * MooDoo wonders if it's time to go home yet?
[07:17] <Odd_Bloke> Morning.
[07:18]  * brobostigon gets MooDoo a big fully pillow and his bear.
[07:18] <brobostigon> fluffy*
[07:21] <mapp> where are you
[07:21] <mapp> worked a nightshift MooDoo?
[07:22] <MooDoo> mapp: no i'm just at work and the first call was printer not working, so technically inept they don't even know how to check if the printer is indeed switched on
[07:22] <MooDoo> I really really give up
[07:22] <mapp> lol
[07:23] <mapp> ive got like loadsa mosquitor bites
[07:23] <mapp> so not all rosey here either;p
[07:23] <brobostigon> :(
[07:23] <mapp> ya its annoying
[07:23] <mapp> ike bitten to shreds when i open my windows
[07:24] <mapp> legs/arms ;/
[07:24] <mapp> ned to get some window nets
[07:24] <mapp> gonna try and get a mortgage on a place here once my accounts opened here
[07:25] <mapp> cant see myself ever coming back to miserable uk:P
[07:39] <popey> morning
[07:40] <mapp> morning popey
[07:44] <MooDoo> howdy
[07:52] <DJones> MooDoo: I had a message over the weekend that one of our servers couldn't transfer data from depots, support people couldn't connect to the machine, 1st thought was windows updates had caused it to update & shut down, turned out it was windows updates that'd killed logmein, still can't understand why the ITS supprt had left a server to allow unattended windows updates
[07:58] <MooDoo> DJones: annoying isn't it
[07:59] <popey> oops
[08:01] <DJones> MooDoo: Yep, its not as if I was going to drive to work to check it out
[08:01] <knightwise> Yeey ! Calendar app on Ubuntu phone now syncs with Gmail ! :)
[08:01] <popey> heh
[08:03] <knightwise> one step closer to using it as my main phone !
[08:06] <MooDoo> DJones: mine was a printer not working, wasn't turned on
[08:07] <DJones> Just tell them that if it happens again, the solution is a pen and paper
[08:11] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[08:12] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:13] <MooDoo> morning davmor2
[08:13] <davmor2> I forgot how depressing your inbox is after a week off
[08:24] <bashrc_> spam?
[08:26] <davmor2> bashrc: no I work at canonical 600+ emails a day
[08:30] <popey> Welcome back Mr davmor2
[08:31] <bashrc_> presumably after reading all the emails you just go home #jobdone
[08:31] <TwistedLucidity> 600+ a day is not manageable. Just processing that number would take nearly 8 hours, leading to zero productivity.
[08:31] <TwistedLucidity> People use email too much....
[08:32] <TwistedLucidity> Well, they use email for things that email should not be used for (e.g. document distribution)
[08:32] <bashrc_> if it's internal communication don't folks at Canonical use IRC?
[08:39] <davmor2> no most of it is less important launchpad stuff that you can skip, some of it however is important to youso you have to kind of semi filter it all first.
[08:42] <popey> bashrc_: we use irc too
[08:42] <popey> a lot
[08:42] <popey> but you get emails whenever there's a comment on a merge proposal
[08:42] <popey> or whenever a bot touches them
[08:42] <popey> or when apps are uploaded to the store etc
[08:43] <bashrc_> yes I imagine that could be a lot of email
[08:47] <TwistedLucidity> "Email alert: You just got an email"....
[08:48] <bashrc_> Email alert notification: you just got an email alert
[08:49] <awilkins> If I was getting 600+ a day then I'd be creating a bunch of email rules
[08:49] <davmor2> awilkins: I do you still need to filter through them with your eyes to see if you need to reply to anything
[08:51] <davmor2> although to be honest I then to just search for my name in the bug mail folder and read through those first that gets rid of a 1/2 of those :)
[08:51] <nucc1> is there a way to make a window that is being rendered outside the visible area of my screen come back to being visible?
[08:51] <awilkins> Reading a book on management at Red Hat
[08:51] <awilkins> Wondering how much like Red Hat, Canonical is
[08:51] <nucc1> I am able to make the window fullscreen, and then see it, but otherwise, it's invisible
[08:52] <awilkins> nucc1, Hmm. On Windows, there's this thing where you can trigger a "move" on the window via the taskbar item
[08:52] <nucc1> awilkins: linux used to have this too, but the age of the "modern" window manager has eliminated those options
[08:52] <awilkins> You can't drag the window because it's offscreen but the arrow keys will "grab" it and then you can move it back onscreen with the mouse
[08:53] <awilkins> nucc1, How about one of "move to preset" key combos?
[08:53] <awilkins> ctrl-alt-5
[08:53] <awilkins> (numpad 5)
[08:54] <nucc1> no good
[08:54] <davmor2> MooDoo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyxkODGdp1E
[08:54] <nucc1> my keyboard is one of those where the numpad is accessible via Fn key.
[08:55] <nucc1> the only options in the dock are quit, and lock to launcher
[08:55] <nucc1> ah
[08:55] <nucc1> i think i found it
[08:56] <nucc1> so basically, i used unity-tweak to reduce my desktop to 1 workspace only
[08:56] <nucc1> and somehow the window found it's way to workspace 2.
[08:56] <nucc1> as soon as I added 2 workspaces, i could see the window on the second workspace
[08:56] <MooDoo> davmor2: lol :D
[08:57] <popey> nucc1: alt-tab to it, then alt-space, M, to activate "move"
[08:59] <nucc1> popey: thanks. i found the window sitting on workspace 2 after i enabled the switcher.
[08:59] <popey> ahhh
[08:59] <nucc1> seems one can't run with only one workspace anymore
[08:59] <popey> cool
[08:59] <popey> i do
[08:59] <nucc1> i was until now :)
[08:59] <popey> heh
[09:00] <mapp> bed time for me
[09:00] <mapp> ;D
[09:01]  * awilkins wonders if he should experiment with a 3x3 workspace
[09:02] <mapp> cant wait to move out
[09:02] <mapp> cant smoke in my room here=[
[09:03] <awilkins> Get an e-cig?
[09:03] <davmor2> awilkins: a 3 px by 3 px workspace would be way to small :P
[09:04] <nucc1> I find multi-monitor easier to handle mentally than multi-workspace
[09:04] <nucc1> i wind up with dozens of window and throwing workspaces into the mix just makes my head explode
[09:05] <awilkins> As Terry Pratchett used to say : the only reason I have 3 monitors, is because my tech guy can't fit 6 on here
[09:05] <awilkins> (I only have 2, my GPU won't support 3)
[09:06] <knightwise> One ultrawide 29 inch monitor
[09:06] <knightwise> I could not handle multi monitor setups .. too distracting
[09:08] <awilkins> I have one of those ludicrous gamer workstations made of steel tubing
[09:08] <awilkins> With a 3-monitor mount
[09:09] <mapp>  i have 4 monitors at work:_
[09:12] <foobarry> anyone else tried the open suorce android twitter client called twidere? really nice
[09:13] <foobarry> no ads or sponsored crap
[09:13] <foobarry> great features
[09:13] <diplo> Oooh I was going to ask what people used for twitter on android later
[09:13]  * diplo installs
[09:14] <popey> well that'll get shutdown then
[09:14] <popey> if it doesn't show adverts
[09:14] <mapp> got a job interview in 2 weeks
[09:15] <mapp> havent had a job interview for 9 years;p
[09:15] <directhex> nowadays you need to wear your hippest t-shirt for interviews
[09:15] <mapp> il wear a suit;p
[09:15] <nucc1> i think it depends on the role
[09:15] <mapp> Trading
[09:15] <nucc1> yes, generally suit is a the safest bet.
[09:15] <popey> heh, I haven't had an interview for years either
[09:16] <directhex> i wasn't interviewed for this job, they just gave me the job
[09:16] <popey> \o/
[09:16] <mapp> trading department at ladbrokes
[09:16] <popey> It's the modern way.
[09:16] <directhex> my previous job, the interview was via irc, so i did it in my pants
[09:16] <mapp> worked at 365 in trading for 9 years
[09:17] <mapp> id say  25% i take it really
[09:17] <mapp> il be wanting £50k+
[09:17] <nucc1> mapp, will that be sales?
[09:17] <mapp> nah
[09:17] <mapp> sports trading
[09:17] <nucc1> still sounds like greek to me
[09:18] <mapp> setting odds live during the game
[09:18] <nucc1> oh, maths
[09:18] <mapp> next goal etc
[09:18] <nucc1> heh!
[09:18] <awilkins> foobarry, By no ads (twidere) does that mean no promoted tweets or just no spammy adbar?
[09:18] <mapp> i work for 365 atm and work nights
[09:18] <foobarry> awilkins: no nothing
[09:18] <popey> sweepstake on when twidere gets shutdown then...
[09:18] <foobarry> i'd accept sponsored tweets
[09:18] <mapp> and i make a good enouh wage
[09:19] <foobarry> plume doesn't show sponsored tweets
[09:19] <foobarry> twidere also has multiple accotn support in same way as plume
[09:19] <foobarry> but everything abnout it is nicer
[09:23] <diplo> Seems nice foobarry, just installed and setup
[09:29] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Upsy Daisy Day! 😃
[09:29] <zmoylan-pi> faceplant day never took off :-(
[09:32] <JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, we could totally start that though!
[09:35]  * zmoylan-pi ties a few trip wires and sets up the cameras...
[10:42] <bujji> how to print percentage of disk usage..?
[10:42] <zmoylan-pi> df -h
[10:43] <popey> df -h /mountpoint
[10:43] <bujji> i want only percent like 80%
[10:43] <bujji> of that mount point.
[10:45] <popey> df -h /home | tail -1 | awk '{print $5}'
[10:45] <popey> alan@deep-thought:/tmp/WeekViewHighlight⟫ df -h /home | tail -1 | awk '{print $5}'
[10:45] <popey> 79%
[10:46] <bigcalm> Having a problem with apt. How do I install a new package while apt-get is complaining about updating packages? http://paste.ubuntu.com/11646464/
[10:47] <bujji> popey:got it.
[10:47] <popey> bujji: do what it says?
[10:47] <popey> oops not bujji
[10:47] <popey> bigcalm: apt-get -f install
[10:47] <bigcalm> Oh, okay...
[10:48] <TwistedLucidity> bigcalm: I find that aptitude is a great program for detangling mess like that. When you run it, it will offer various potential fixes or you can just find the errant packages and slap them around yourself.
[10:48] <bujji> -f for forcefully ?
[10:49] <bigcalm> bujji: yes, but popey was actually tell me that. You don't need to use -f for anything right now :)
[10:49] <bujji> okey
[10:49] <TwistedLucidity> bujji, bigcalm: "-f" means "fix broken"
[10:50] <bigcalm> Oh
[10:50] <bigcalm> That's a little nicer then
[10:50] <bujji> oh got it
[10:50] <TwistedLucidity> Probably going to go with the first option "aptitude" would provide
[10:51] <bujji> how default permissions applied for sym link files..??
[10:55] <bujji> o/
[11:00] <bujji> hey any one ??
[11:04] <TwistedLucidity> bujji: This help? http://superuser.com/questions/303040/how-do-file-permissions-apply-to-symlinks
[11:04]  * TwistedLucidity is no expert and that was the first hit
[11:09] <bujji> TwistedLucidity:when you create a file default permissions will be applied right based on umask..in the same way when you apply symlink how default permissions will be applied for that.
[11:13] <bujji> popey:do you have any idea?
[11:13] <popey> nope
[11:20] <bujji> when we create a file default permissions will be applied right based on umask..in the same way when we apply symlink how default 777 permissions will be applied for that.
[11:31] <intrbiz> bujji: symbolic links are always 0777, that can't be changed
[11:32] <bujji> intrbiz:i tried to change permissions but it wasn't changed.
[11:33] <intrbiz> bujji: you cannot change permissions of the symlink itself, if you chmod a symlink it'll change permissions on the target file
[11:34] <bujji> intrbiz:yes its effected to target file.
[11:34] <bujji> intrbiz:i want to know how default permissions are always 0777 for sym link
[11:34] <intrbiz> bujji: symlinks have no permissions, they are 0777, that is hard coded
[11:35] <bujji> intrbiz:how can i find that one..??
[11:35] <intrbiz> bujji: find what?
[11:35] <davmor2> bujji: you can't change it, it is built in
[11:35] <bujji> intrbiz:you said hard coded right
[11:36] <intrbiz> bujji: read the man page symlink (7)
[11:36] <bujji> davmore2:i can view right??
[11:36] <intrbiz> bujji: can view what?
[11:37] <davmor2> bujji: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/utopic/man7/symlink.7.html
[11:37] <bujji> intrbiz:the hard code one..
[11:38] <intrbiz> bujji: it'll be in the kernel somewhere, probably FS specific
[11:38] <intrbiz> bujji: this is seeming an x-y problem, why are you asking about symlink permissions?
[11:39] <bujji> intrbiz:i want to know that..:))
[11:40] <intrbiz> bujji: well, a symlink isn't a real file, its merely a pointer to a file, as such it doesn't have all the same properties of a file, specifically it lacks permissions
[11:42] <bujji> intrbiz:but if we alter in sym link file,the original file can also be altered right.
[11:43] <davmor2> bujji: no
[11:43] <davmor2> bujji: you want a hardlink not a softlink
[11:43] <intrbiz> bujji: if you alter the permission of the symlink it will alter the permissions of the target file
[11:43] <bujji> davmor2:both i have tried...
[11:44] <intrbiz> bujji: what are you trying to acheive?
[11:45] <bujji> intrbiz:umask dont do any thing here for sym link...
[11:46] <davmor2> bujji: start at the beginning what are you trying to do and why?
[11:47] <intrbiz> bujji: as I've said repeatedly symlinks do not have permissions, so of course umaks has nothing to do with symlinks
[11:47] <intrbiz> bujji: as davmor2 says, start from the begining, what are you trying to do?
[11:49] <bujji> davmor2:if we alter in sym link file,the original file can also be altered..you said no...but its altering.
[11:50] <davmor2> bujji: that is not starting at the beginning.  What is the symlink why are you trying to change it's permissions
[11:50] <bujji> hen we create a file default permissions will be applied right based on umask..in the same way i want to know when we apply symlink how default 777 permissions will be applied for that.
[11:51] <bujji> when*
[11:51] <intrbiz> bujji: as an example: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11647413/
[11:52] <intrbiz> bujji: as I keep saying, you cannot apply default permissions to a symlink, because a symlink does not have any permissions
[11:52] <intrbiz> bujji: why are you symlinking to this file?
[11:53] <bujji> intrbiz:you said default permissions already hard coded...ie.777
[11:54] <intrbiz> bujji: no, I said that the permissions are hard coded, not the default permissions
[11:55] <bujji> http://superuser.com/questions/303040/how-do-file-permissions-apply-to-symlinks in this one i found mac sym links can be changed.
[11:55] <intrbiz> bujji: mac != Linux
[11:55] <davmor2> bujji: mac is not linux, different kernel completely
[11:56] <intrbiz> bujji: quoting the manpage linked to you: "
[11:56] <intrbiz> On  Linux,  the  permissions  of  a  symbolic  link are not used in any
[11:56] <intrbiz>        operations; the permissions are always 0777 (read, write,  and  execute
[11:56] <intrbiz>        for all user categories), and can't be changed.
[11:56] <intrbiz> "
[11:56] <bujji> intrbiz:i know )))
[11:56] <bujji> intbiz:why this is hard coded as 777..
[11:56] <intrbiz> bujji: well no matter how many time you ask the question the answer will be the same
[11:57] <bujji> oh man
[11:58] <davmor2> bujji: there is a nice thread here http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-general-1/why-chmod-cannot-change-symbolic-link-permission-102012/
[11:58] <shauno> (osx is weirder than that.  it lets you change link permissions but still doesn't obey them)
[11:58] <davmor2> bujji: there is also the man page here http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/utopic/man7/symlink.7.html   both explain what is going on
[11:59] <intrbiz> bujji: but *why* do you want to set the permissions of a symlink?
[12:02] <bujji> intrbiz:i tried to change permissions for that file..its not changing its effecting the targetted file..but if i alter the file content targeted file also altering ..so i started knowing why its not changing and then wanted to know how 777 permissions applied for that.
[12:02] <bujji> intrbiz:i tried to change permissions for that file..its not changing its effecting the targetted file..but if i alter the file content targeted file also altering ..so i started knowing why its not changing and then wanted to know how 777 permissions applied for that.
[12:09] <bujji> intrbiz:o/
[12:14] <bigcalm> 15 weeks to the RAT \o/
[12:14]  * zmoylan-pi speculates that bigcalm may need an intervention if they're counting the weeks... :-)
[12:16] <bujji> O_O
[12:16] <bigcalm> I can do it in days...
[12:16] <MooDoo> RAT RAT RAT
[12:16] <intrbiz> choo choo
[12:28]  * popey looks at his RAT ticket
[12:28] <popey> .oO( still there )
[12:28] <bigcalm> Phew
[12:29] <bigcalm> Erm. Why has the NIC for a server in the office now showing em1 rather than eth1?
[12:29] <bigcalm> What is em?
[12:29] <popey> new stuff innit
[12:29] <popey> did you upgrade it?
[12:30] <bigcalm> I did
[12:30] <bigcalm> Just now
[12:30] <popey> neato
[12:30] <popey> to what?
[12:30] <bigcalm> Um, update && dist-upgrade
[12:30] <bigcalm> It's on 14.04
[12:30] <popey> oh
[12:30] <zmoylan-pi> new stuff?? down with this sort of thing!!
[12:30] <popey> interesting
[12:30] <popey> pitchforks at dawn
[12:31] <bigcalm> 14.04.2
[12:31] <popey> what kernel?
[12:31] <bigcalm> 3.16.0-38-generic
[12:33] <bigcalm> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2150517 possibly related, talks about 13.04 though
[12:33] <bujji> bye all :))
[12:33] <bigcalm> toodle pip
[12:33] <popey> pip pip
[12:42] <intrbiz> bigcalm: em1 is probably the new 'persistent' nic names in systemd-udev
[12:43] <DJones> bigcalm: Just saw this asked in #u  "what is this nonsense with the emX interfaces? "
[12:43] <bigcalm> Okay
[12:45] <intrbiz> the old eth0 naming seems to be going away and the new conventions do make some sense, however odd they look at first
[12:46] <intrbiz> i have names such as: enp3s0, enp6s0, ens3f0, ens3f1, enp38s0f0, enp38s0f1, enp39s0f0, enp39s0f1 in my server
[12:46] <davmor2> tally-ho
[12:46] <knightwise> Toppodamornintoya davmor2
[12:47] <davmor2> knightwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15qc3_joy5A
[12:48] <knightwise> davmor2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXiJcFVds0E
[13:09] <daftykins> bigcalm: just a thought but it'd be wiser to keep an office server on 3.13 since the 3.16 is part of the utopic HWE which will go EOL soon enough
[13:12] <bigcalm> daftykins: It's 14.04 LTS, I just did update && dist-upgrade
[13:13] <bigcalm> Surely Ubuntu peeps will keep things working?
[13:13] <daftykins> yeah but if you're on a 3.16 kernel, that kernel isn't LTS
[13:13] <bigcalm> I didn't specify the kernel
[13:13] <daftykins> at least that's the understanding i get with 14.04.2
[13:13] <daftykins> no you just get what you get depending on your install media
[13:14] <daftykins> my 14.04 box here is on 3.13.0-53-generic
[13:14] <TheGeek_> afternoon
[13:14] <bigcalm> Downloaded the 64bit 14.04 server iso onto a usb stick and used that
[13:14] <daftykins> yeah but only 14.04.2 ISOs seem to exist now, which come with the utopic HWE as default
[13:14] <daftykins> thus will expire and require reworking soon enough
[13:15] <bigcalm> So won't a future update && dist-upgrade sort this out for me?
[13:15] <daftykins> nope
[13:15] <daftykins> or at least not unless they fixed it
[13:15] <bigcalm> Does't seem right that I'm in this situation then
[13:16] <daftykins> i kept a 14.04.1 ISO around for this reason, so i could install with a 3.13 kernel and just dist-upgrade to become 14.04.2 but not bring in the HWE
[13:17] <ne2k> I think that if you use netinstall, you will get 3.13 too
[13:17] <bigcalm> Do I blame popey or davmor2?
[13:17] <ne2k> you can get the old ISOs from here http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/trusty/
[13:17] <ne2k> daftykins, ^^^
[13:17] <bigcalm> I'm not about to reinstall the server
[13:18] <popey> i dont see a problem
[13:18] <popey> keep updating, you'll get the newer kernel when that comes
[13:18] <daftykins> you had to manually intervene when 12.04 HWE's went EOL.
[13:19] <daftykins> we got flooded with people in #ubuntu who had the expiry messages and didn't know how to update, because dist-upgrade wasn't doing it iirc
[13:19] <davmor2> bigcalm: are you on a strict 14.04 or 14.04 HWE
[13:19] <daftykins> sounded like a clean 14.04.2
[13:21] <daftykins> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/LTSEnablementStack#Kernel.2BAC8-Support.Ubuntu_Kernel_Release_Schedule
[13:22] <daftykins> so end of July when 14.10 goes EOL, that kernel will too
[13:22] <daftykins> if it's being claimed that keeing up to date when that happens is fine, then maybe it'll be less of a big deal... but i personally don't think servers should be even vaguely near that level of hassle
[13:22] <popey> july 2016
[13:23] <popey> ... and there will be an update in august 2015...
[13:23] <daftykins> oops i hadn't scrolled down
[13:25] <bigcalm> I'll do-release-upgrade when 16.04.1 is released
[13:26] <daftykins> wow what a mess
[13:27] <popey> I think you're confusing the lifetime of 14.10 and the lifetime of the HWE kernel _from_ 14.10 in 14.04
[13:27] <bigcalm> I've surprised myself by running 15.04 on my home workstation as I have a habit of only running LTS releases on work related hardware
[13:27] <davmor2> bigcalm: hitting many issues?
[13:28] <bigcalm> davmor2: not noticed any yet
[13:28] <davmor2> \o/
[13:28] <daftykins> popey: sort of, i was under the impression the kernel HWE in LTS went EOL when that release went EOL
[13:28] <popey> ah, no.
[13:29] <daftykins> i still personally avoid these in general
[13:29] <daftykins> because if you're on a server that doesn't need any modern hardware support a newer kernel would provide, it seems easier to just stay on 3.13 for the releases' whole life
[13:29] <bigcalm> davmor2: tell a lie. I hit a problem with trying to use nvidia drivers. The fix was to disable the intel driver
[13:30] <bigcalm> Going to do that at work and see if I can get rid of xorg-edgers
[13:30] <davmor2> bigcalm: you on optimus?
[13:30] <davmor2> bigcalm: if so then just install nvidia-prime too
[13:30] <shauno> daftykins: I thought that was the plan?  if the LTS kernel works for you, you stay on the LTS track.  if you need the HWE kernel, you opt-in to a slightly faster track
[13:30] <popey> I'd take newer kernels for btrfs alone
[13:31] <bigcalm> davmor2: doubt it. I'd only use that for a laptop which has one display. The two work stations will always use the nvidia driver and not need to switch to intel
[13:32] <daftykins> shauno: well lets say you wanted to install 14.04 today, you go to grab a conventional ISO - but the mirrors only have 14.04.2 which throws on 3.16 as default =|
[13:32] <popey> which makes sense if you have a new server
[13:33] <awilkins> THE SAGA OF MARKETING BULLSHITTERY CONTINUES
[13:33] <awilkins> Oops
[13:33] <daftykins> D:
[13:33] <awilkins> Sorry
[13:33] <awilkins> Apologies for network-inappropriate swear level
[13:33] <awilkins> Wong channel
[13:33] <davmor2> bigcalm: the intel one it the one built in then I guess if this is desktop?  in which case did you change to bios/uefi to not use the built-in gfx then the intel driver would not be used
[13:33] <daftykins> awilkins: well now you have my attention i want to know what it's about :D
[13:34] <davmor2> s/one it/one is
[13:34] <awilkins> Just that phenomenon where marketing types "specify" what they want with the most nebulous language imaginable until you just cave in and go "Oh, ok"
[13:34] <bigcalm> davmor2: it might be an option, but disabling the drive also works
[13:35] <awilkins> And when they reject what you've produced, they use the exact same nebulous language but in a slightly different order to state what they "really wanted"
[13:35] <bigcalm> davmor2: I dual boot my home workstation with windows. And that doesn't have the issue with the intel gfx. So no real need to disable it in ufei
[13:35] <daftykins> ooh-err!
[13:35] <bigcalm> uefi
[13:35] <awilkins> And now they're telling us to check with them about how stuff works (when we know full well how it works in about a bazillion times more detail)
[13:36]  * awilkins finds all this very stressful
[13:37] <davmor2> awilkins: welcome to the real world ;)
[13:37] <awilkins> Oh, have been there, done it
[13:37] <shauno> daftykins: hm, I didn't realise that.  so assuming I have to d/l fresh, I can't not opt-in to HWE until 2016 now?
[13:38] <awilkins> At least when you work for a .gov.uk you don't have to cope with marketing
[13:40] <daftykins> shauno: ne2k pointed out net installs work apparently, plus i didn't know about the older ISOs living on the old-releases page. but yeah, you'd have to install 3.13 then purge 3.16 to get rid (not sure if it requires more work than that on a server)
[13:41] <daftykins> shauno: i think i seem a bit of a nut to some, but i'd rather just stick to 100% LTS if i'm gonna run it :)
[13:41] <davmor2> awilkins: no then you have the public and managers and local government and national government and designers to worry about ;)
[13:45] <daftykins> it's fruity tech's (Apple) WWDC event today, only mac users may watch live - http://www.apple.com/live/
[13:45] <daftykins> not a fan myself, but always good to know thy enemy
[13:46] <zmoylan-pi> nobody on twitter periscoping/meerkating the occasion?
[13:46] <daftykins> haha
[13:47] <daftykins> i find it amazing what sites spring up offering services like that which you didn't think were needed
[13:47] <zmoylan-pi> it does seem a little sad alright
[13:48] <zmoylan-pi> i noticed firefox added a periscope option to my toolbar for somereason
[13:48] <daftykins> then again the likes of imgur are teaching the kids of today that text is best stored as images
[13:48] <daftykins> :>
[13:52] <daftykins> firefox did 0o
[13:53]  * awilkins had to look "periscope" up
[13:53]  * awilkins goes to periscope his fridge like all the cool kids are doing
[13:53] <daftykins> :D
[13:56] <zmoylan-pi> i think it's an extension i added to firefox.  just the icon on toolbar changed and when i click on it it now has a periscope option
[13:56] <zmoylan-pi> there was some feathers ruffled over addition of pocket+ to firefox
[14:06] <shauno> woot, new mac at the postoffice to collect.  toys <3
[14:08] <zmoylan-pi> somebody really likes their raincoats...
[14:08] <shauno> if you lived in galway, you would too ;)
[14:09] <zmoylan-pi> i live in dublin so i know a significant % of your love :-)
[14:10] <shauno> I have an excuse for this one though.  I want to play with some PPC stuff, so this one actually is the cheapest ticket
[14:30] <daftykins> ugh PPC :P
[14:43] <popey> \o/ PPC
[14:43] <popey> Quite fancy an old MacBook
[14:44] <shauno> this is a 10yo mini.  cheap enough to be silly with, and small enough that I might still have some desk left
[14:46] <knightwise> I love teh ppc distro's
[14:46] <knightwise> having one of those old G4 Powerbooks (17 inch) and run linux on it :) Megacool
[14:47] <shauno> I want to try running amigaos4 :)
[14:50] <knightwise> popey: what do you think of the Thinkpad x220 'tablet' worth it to play with Ubuntu or ...
[14:50] <popey> I dont have one
[14:50] <popey> I have a non-tablet x220
[14:50] <knightwise> pleased with it (despite the moderate resolution ? )
[14:50] <popey> hmm
[14:50] <popey> well it's over 3 years old now
[14:51] <popey> so yeah, the resolution is annoying.
[14:51] <knightwise> its your basic netbook resolution
[14:51] <popey> i like that I can put 16GB RAM and 2 SSDs in it, which will extend the life
[14:51] <popey> yeah
[14:51] <popey> I use mine attached to a 1080p monitor all day
[14:51] <popey> rarely use it without a monitor, usually only when travelling
[14:51] <knightwise> that is also a viable alternative.
[14:52] <popey> I'm still looking around at laptops
[14:52]  * knightwise has a 23 inch apple display sitting around doing nothing.
[14:52] <popey> Timo posted about his Dell XPS13 experience today
[14:52] <knightwise> popey: i ordered my dell xps13 yesterday.
[14:52] <popey> Sad that it's got broken bits
[14:52] <knightwise> popey: link ?
[14:52] <popey> http://losca.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/quick-look-dell-xps-13-developer.html
[14:52] <popey> (he works for canonical)
[14:53] <knightwise> aaah awesome post !
[14:53] <knightwise> Bookmarked.
[14:53] <knightwise> my xps should arrive in a couple of weeks
[14:54] <knightwise> I'm thinking of backing up the orignal image and going with elementary
[14:54] <popey> he's mirv on irc if you have specific questions for him
[14:54] <popey> outrage
[14:54] <knightwise> Thanx popey , you're a lifesaver.
[14:54] <popey> you getting the touch one or not?
[14:54] <daftykins> wonder how good ubuntu will do on Windows' 15hr battery life on that FHD model XPS 13
[14:54] <knightwise> no .. just the "plain" HD one. Laney was getting the full HD one
[14:55] <knightwise> it was about 400 euro difference for some more diskspace, touch and the qhd
[14:55] <knightwise> brb
[14:55] <popey> ..and touch
[14:55] <knightwise> yep .. but touch was pretty pointless in Ubuntu
[14:55] <popey> I'm specifically looking for touch machines
[14:55] <knightwise> and the extra storage .. i hardly store things locally.
[14:56] <knightwise> hmm. then the xps is not a bad way to go
[14:56] <knightwise> its small and damn sexy
[15:05] <knightwise> love the fact that it has the aize of a mba 11 and the sreen of a 13"
[15:06] <daftykins> i would still prefer they kept built in ethernet in
[15:07] <knightwise> usb2ethernet dongle is like 5 euro
[15:07] <daftykins> unacceptable for me
[15:07] <knightwise> progress...
[15:08] <daftykins> no it's really not :)
[15:08] <knightwise> im happy it still has ports (see nacbooks)
[15:08] <daftykins> well, i think those things are a niche for the more-money-than-sense / fashion crowd
[15:08] <daftykins> Core M performs pretty terribly too
[15:09] <knightwise> i have a 1000 euro apple watch on my desk for review
[15:09] <knightwise> waste of money
[15:09] <daftykins> haha
[15:09] <daftykins> i got informed i must setup a second fitbit for someone before they take their boat off to Paris for the Royal Yacht Squadron meet later this week
[15:09] <daftykins> silly toys :>
[15:10] <shauno> fitbit and boats turned out to be a bad combination, based on a single anecdote
[15:11] <knightwise> true. 300 euro for the watch.. ok
[15:11] <knightwise> 700 euro for the strap ??? nopenopenope
[15:11] <daftykins> shauno: yeah he drowned the wifes phone last boat trip they had
[15:12] <daftykins> so we'll see which gadgets survive this jaunt :>
[15:12] <shauno> we more found that it simply didn't pick stuff up
[15:12] <knightwise> lol
[15:13] <shauno> like it's looking for the kinda movement you get from stride/gait, running, cycling, etc
[15:13] <shauno> and mostly missed out of stuff that was entirely upper-body (like hauling ropes)
[15:13] <daftykins> oh as in under way it'll start to spazz out?
[15:13] <shauno> nah, just no useful data
[15:13] <daftykins> i suspect it'll be going for some body stats logging and as a conversation piece
[15:13] <shauno> how many steps it took you to haul an anchor is not a good measure of effort done
[15:13] <knightwise> ttyl off tp the nana
[15:14] <bigcalm> toilet paper?
[15:14] <shauno> don't tp your nana :(  nanas are awesome
[15:16] <daftykins> lol
[15:16] <daftykins> mines 93 and had a nasty fall the other day
[15:16] <daftykins> broke her arm beside the bed and didn't get found until two days later
[15:22] <daftykins> zmoylan-pi: you called it, one of the folk from theverge.com is apparently going to hoist up their periscope ;)
[15:22] <daftykins> ugh i felt wrong even typing that
[15:22] <shauno> I'm still not sure what that means
[15:23] <daftykins> from what i understand, periscope is like twitter but you can quickly fire up a live feed broadcasting what you're doing to the world
[15:23] <daftykins> or something
[15:23] <Laney> popey: knightwise: I've been seeing http://en.community.dell.com/techcenter/os-applications/f/4613/t/19632979 too
[15:23] <shauno> although I did read an article the other day that defined generation-Y / millenial as 18-33.  so apparently I'm still young and hip.
[15:23] <daftykins> oh dear
[15:24] <daftykins> i was definitely quite confused at this millennial concept, i thought it meant someone born after 2000
[15:26] <shauno> wiki says there's no agreed definition, but uses 1982 repeatedly.  so I assume they mean someone who turned 18 after the millenium?
[15:26] <shauno> by which measure I missed it by a single day
[15:26] <daftykins> oooh so close :)
[15:27] <shauno> I turned 18 on dec 31st 1999.  which felt pretty millenial at the time.  (well, it felt a lot like alcohol poisoning at the time, but ..)
[15:29] <zmoylan-pi> daftykins: it's the hip new thing that kids are doing these days...
[15:30] <daftykins> just who exactly has these kids :D
[15:30] <shauno> I thought perriscope launched at SXSW?  that's not kids, that's ... those people who thing lumberjack beards are "ironic"
[15:30] <daftykins> or is it just tech news sites perpetuating these ideas :)
[15:37] <shauno> I think there's an awkward crossover between 'tech news' sites and venture capital.  which seems to lead to some very artificial "explosions" because the press is self-serving
[15:40] <funkyHat> xps 13" has no 16GB option ⢁(
[15:42] <popey> yeah :(
[15:42] <intrbiz> funkyHat: knowing how big the logic board is in the xps 13, it would be hard to get the chips on
[15:43] <popey> still, it's a step back for those of us on 16GB machines :(
[15:44] <intrbiz> popey: what machine?
[15:44] <funkyHat> Also absolutely no mention of how many cores the processor has, so I'm guessing it's dual-core only, not quad
[15:44] <popey> my thinkpad
[15:44] <intrbiz> funkyHat: the 2013 model show as 4 cpus, but it's dual core + HT
[15:45] <shauno> that always seems like a shame.  soldered ram would actually allow them to offer 32 as an option, and make it look like there's a genuine advantage to soldering the chips
[15:45] <funkyHat> I'll probably replace my MBP with the latest MBP. If the XPS had 16GB and a quad core option I'd be seriously tempted to switch... that screen OMG
[15:46] <popey> can't see myself buying another mac any time soon
[15:46] <popey> the imac was good for a family computer in the kitchen but getting old now
[15:46] <popey> also, i upgraded the hard disk and now the fans spin _constantly_
[15:46] <popey> wish that was fixable
[15:49] <funkyHat> Also as I haven't *quite* finished uni yet I can still get the apple education discount. Dell don't seem to offer anything like that on the XPS, so it's not even that much cheaper for me
[15:49] <intrbiz> alright for some
[15:49] <funkyHat> But I will be sad about only having crappy retina instead of QHD
[15:50] <shauno> I really want a new one, but can't bring myself to do it.  I really wish they still had a current model of what I have
[15:52] <daftykins> popey: it is, you got an SSD in there now?
[15:52] <daftykins> the one i modded, i got a little software program to stop the fans ramping up to max
[15:52] <shauno> you can just short the two spare pins on the cable too, if it's the 2011 ones
[15:54] <daftykins> i read that too, but went with a clever real temperature detecting one that still ramps up as needed
[15:54] <shauno> (this is of course a bad thing if the hdd does turn out to be your primary heat source  heh)
[15:54] <daftykins> :D
[15:55] <shauno> if you leave them open it constantly thinks they're hot.  if you short them it constantly thinks it's cold.  if you find a dead one you can steal the heat sensor from the optical drive and fix it properly
[15:55] <daftykins> http://exirion.net/ssdfanctrl/
[15:56] <shauno> (assuming it's 2011.  if it's 08-09 it's a different issue, and you broked it  heh_
[16:01] <popey> daftykins: no, large spinning rust
[16:02] <popey> shauno: got a link to this?
[16:02] <popey> detailing how to do that
[16:02] <shauno> hm, good question
[16:04] <daftykins> the above will still work
[16:04] <shauno> http://forum.hardmac.com/index.php?showtopic=10302
[16:05] <shauno> (this I haven't actually tried, I've just sat in mac-based channels long enough to acquire cruft by osmosis)
[16:05] <daftykins> Apple really do do somet things for no good reason :P
[16:05] <shauno> I still haven't popped my "rip the glass off an imac" cherry yet  lol
[16:06] <daftykins> :D
[16:06] <shauno> I dunno, that one does seem sort of logical.  taping temperature sensors to the outside of the drive (eg imac 06-08) compared to using the sensors the drives provide
[16:06] <daftykins> one i did for a client was a 2010 model so no glue thankfully, just magnets
[16:06] <daftykins> i bought a suction cup off ebay :D
[16:06] <daftykins> making it proprietary and then requiring custom firmware though :(
[16:06] <shauno> it just sucks that there's no standard way to do this.  they didn't even have the same connectors for different brands
[16:10] <shauno> perhaps it might have actually matured if it didn't turn out to be 1-2 years before SSDs took off
[16:11] <daftykins> right time to operate on my mouse
[16:11] <daftykins> scroll wheels that send you both up and down in equal measure are no friend of mine!
[16:12] <shauno> I've got one I'm still trying to get working, the internet keeps telling me this exact combination works fine, but .. nope
[16:13] <funkyHat> HP MicroServer Gen8 processor doesn't do VT-d ⢁( cashback is back on though finally
[16:14] <daftykins> that's kind of a given
[16:14] <daftykins> is it even a CPU feature? or just BIOS locking it out?
[16:15] <funkyHat> Intel ARK says that CPU doesn't support it http://ark.intel.com/products/71074/Intel-Celeron-Processor-G1610T-2M-Cache-2_30-GHz
[16:17] <funkyHat> It does have VT-x, so it's not all bad. VT-d would be nice though. It's possible to replace the processor but then that's kind of missing the point of it being a *cheap* home server
[16:17] <shauno> I don't remember what the difference between vt-d and vt-x is  lol
[16:17] <daftykins> indeed
[16:17] <daftykins> VT-d is virt I/O
[16:17] <funkyHat> VT-x is hardware virt, VT-d is IO
[16:17] <shauno> ah
[16:23] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0qu0i4adn6m31r1/AAAuf_wv7kzXgYslsv9u3U9Qa?dl=0
[16:23] <daftykins> blech there's a culprit and a half
[16:24] <shauno> daftykins: I recommend fire.
[16:25] <daftykins> :D
[16:28] <bujji> h.w O_O
[16:32] <daftykins> bujji: huh?
[16:33] <bujji> hard ware ))
[16:33] <daftykins> i thought you meant that
[16:33] <daftykins> yeah, hardware is where i normally live
[16:34] <daftykins> not so much into the software side ^_^
[16:34] <bujji> you probably master in it..?  ))
[16:35] <bujji> daftykins:so what all things you do in h.w
[16:37] <daftykins> not really, i don't do any electronics really
[16:38] <bujji> okey.
[16:38] <daftykins> just happy to take systems apart and fix them up on the component level
[16:38] <bujji> if anything fails you can identify right.
[16:41] <daftykins> usually yep
[16:51] <bujji> major differences between linux and unix?
[16:52] <shauno> my wallet.
[16:52] <bujji> shauno: :))
[16:53] <shauno> unix isn't actually "a thing" anymore.  and hasn't been for a long time.  it's not something you actually use
[16:53] <shauno> it's grown into a standard that other OS try to adhere to, more or less
[16:54] <bujji> okey.
[16:54] <shauno> linux tries, but doesn't try too hard.  since no-one will pay for certification, and they're big enough to survive without it, there's less to be gained
[16:55] <bujji> less to be gained??
[16:57] <shauno> well, with most things you look at cost vs benefit
[16:57] <shauno> some things aren't always "worth it"
[16:57] <shauno> these days, adhering too strictly to unix is one of them
[16:58] <bujji> what about solaris??
[16:59] <shauno> I'm not so familiar with solaris, but I think they're a certified unix
[17:00] <awilkins> It needs to be destroyed with a high energy particle accelerator
[17:00] <bujji> i am fascinated using linux..i  want to learn new things..
[17:04] <bujji> minix??
[17:07] <davmor2> bujji: if you want to learn about linux read the linux from scratch manual. and maybe have a go at installing it in vm.
[17:08] <bujji> davmor2:i installed vm and using it.
[17:09] <davmor2> bujji: I mean installing linux from scratch in a vm
[17:09] <davmor2> bujji: it gives you all the basic blocks you need to get a system up and running
[17:10] <bujji> davmore2:can you more aloborate..
[17:10] <davmor2> bujji: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/
[17:11] <bujji> davmore2:I got this one but i dont  know where to start..
[17:14] <bujji> davmore2:this is very interesting..
[17:18] <intrbiz> to my mind, Linux is inspired by Unix, when we talk about nixes today we probably really mean Posix compatible
[17:21] <bujji> linux kernal is diff right intrbiz..
[17:21] <daftykins> *kernel
[17:21] <daftykins> :>
[17:24] <intrbiz> bujji: Well, strictly, Linux is just the kernel
[17:24] <intrbiz> bujji: the Linux kernel design differs significantly from Solaris, yet they both expose APIs to userspace which are very similar
[17:25] <bujji> okey..
[17:27] <bujji> now linux is becoming so popular..
[17:27] <intrbiz> bujji: if you want to know more about the kernel itself, this book is good: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Linux-Kernel-Development-Novell-Press/dp/0672327201/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
[17:30] <bujji> intrbiz:can i get pdf of this one
[17:30] <intrbiz> bujji: i think they sell an ebook
[17:31] <bujji> okey
[17:32] <bujji> intrbiz:http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/ is this okey
[17:34] <bujji> intrbiz:i bookmark that one novell
[17:41] <bujji> davmor2:can you give me more info for shell script.
[17:43] <davmor2> bujji: just ask rather than asking one person if anyone can help they will
[17:44] <bujji> okey got it.
[17:44] <daftykins> like i said recently...
[17:45] <bujji> can any one give me more info for shell script.
[17:45] <daftykins> yes join #bash
[17:46] <awilkins> shell scripting : http://www.tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/
[17:47] <awilkins> My go-to reference when confounded
[17:52] <bujji> awilkins :good one
[18:20] <shauno> well, there's an odd one.  apple announced linux software
[18:22] <daftykins> open sauce at that!
[18:25] <shauno> not sure I actually see it being useful, but unexpected regardless
[18:25] <bujji> shauno:O_O
[18:32] <bujji> ubuntu mobile os is released or going to release??
[18:34] <daftykins> i think #ubuntu-touch is the place for that?
[18:36] <bujji> it has rleased ha
[19:39] <diddledan> swift surely is only useful when it comes with the ios or osx libraries, no?
[19:39] <diddledan> it's like objective-c without the apple nsThgiews
[19:39] <diddledan> thingies**
[19:40] <diddledan> I wonder if they'll go as far as doing an android version
[19:41] <shauno> pretty much
[19:41] <shauno> ObjC has an awkward life on linux for openstep.  swift won't even have that
[19:42] <diddledan> the answer, daftykins, to questions such as ujjain's is "yes" rather than an x or y or even a pointer to somewhere else. you should attempt to make the questioner more confused than they started
[19:42] <shauno> I actually wasn't sure of the answer to that one.  I wasn't sure whether you'd call it released, or beta, or .. what
[19:43] <diddledan> shauno: "yes"
[19:43] <shauno> right, but at the time, and not knowing the answer, I'd have either "shut up I don't know" or "deferr to someone who does"
[19:50] <daftykins> diddledan: x or y? if i don't know the answer i don't see the harm in suggesting where it can be found
[19:50] <diddledan> daftykins: but. but. opaqueness!
[19:51] <daftykins> i don't fully understand what you said, sir
[19:51] <diddledan> we should be as opaque as possible! :-p
[19:51] <daftykins> 'we' ?
[19:51] <diddledan> everyone who isn't asking the question
[20:11] <mapps> what series to pickup
[20:11] <mapps> hmms
[20:11] <shauno> ooh, that reminds me, I still have sunday's TV to catch up.  HCF and that dragon thing
[20:12] <shauno> diddledan: https://developer.apple.com/osx/download/
[20:12] <shauno> ;)
[20:12] <diddledan> dragon thing?
[20:13] <shauno> GoT
[20:13] <daftykins> http://cowboyjob.com/member/daftykins
[20:13] <diddledan> aah#
[20:13] <daftykins> what on earth is this website O_O
[20:15] <diddledan> daftykins: no idea, but they claim "Most Active Forum in the World for Geeks!"
[20:15] <diddledan> seems they're scaping irc
[20:15] <diddledan> scraping**
[20:16] <daftykins> indeed
[20:16] <daftykins> and channels that aren't claimed to be publically logged too
[20:16] <diddledan> and also seems to have stopped scraping on may 19th
[20:16] <diddledan> maybe freenode banned them
[20:16] <shauno> I can't see any rhyme or rhythm to what they've kept either
[20:17] <shauno> or why my icon is Patrick :(
[20:22] <daftykins> huzzah my mouse operation was a success!
[20:23] <shauno> win!
[20:23] <daftykins> back working perfectly again
[20:48] <shauno> hm, you're not going to be able to download 10.11 on walesnets are you
[20:49] <daftykins> depends how many black+white sheep he's lined up
[20:49] <daftykins> and whether zmoylan-pi has written the RFC yet :)
[20:52] <shauno> I'm not sure I want to know how many sheep he has lined up o_O  I thought this was a family holiday?
[20:53] <daftykins> precisely why, i suspect
[20:54] <shauno> I just realised, perhaps 20 seconds too late, that I probably should have made a backup first
[20:55] <daftykins> uh-oh
[20:55] <daftykins> don't you have a glorious TM device?
[20:55] <shauno> I'm actually not sure if it's enabled
[20:55] <shauno> It's so fire-and-forget, that I forgot
[20:56] <diddledan> whales moaningnet
[20:56] <daftykins> a friends dad had a nasty surprise once where TM was claiming it was doing it, but actually wasn't
[20:56] <daftykins> the best lesson he taught me was to boot OS X recovery first and check the TM device had a recent date on it
[20:56] <diddledan> it'll have to wait till the weekendings
[20:57] <shauno> Well, if it's not using MicrosoftMinutes™, I'll find out in 25 minutes
[20:58] <daftykins> Windows Time!
[20:59] <daftykins> :D
[21:02] <mapps> jus started american oddysey
[21:02] <shauno> hm. Micro machines on the Amiga has some pretty weird control schemes
[21:22] <zmoylan-pi> logically you only need 2 sheep 1 black and 1 white for it to work but then the transfer rate is terrible.  the more sheep the better
[21:23] <shauno> Have we done any environmental studies on EweDP yet?
[21:25] <zmoylan-pi> wales and new zealand persist...
[21:56] <shauno> lol ..
[21:56] <shauno> diddledan: don't do 10.11
[21:58] <shauno> they have sandboxed *everything*
[21:58] <daftykins> D:
[21:58] <daftykins> so much... sand...
[21:59] <shauno> 08/06/2015 22:58:34.164 sudo[2101]:   soneil : TTY=ttys001 ; PWD=/Users/soneil ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/bin/mkdir /usr/local
[21:59] <shauno> 08/06/2015 22:58:34.000 kernel[0]: Sandbox: mkdir(2102) System Policy: deny(1) file-write-create /usr/local
[22:00] <diddledan> eh?
[22:00] <shauno> I'm not allowed to create /usr/local
[22:00] <diddledan> why would they do that?!
[22:00] <shauno> as me, as root, with sudo, without, whatever.
[22:01] <diddledan> root can't mkdir seems a bit of a bug
[22:01] <shauno> oh it's not just mkdir.  it's now the default policy
[22:02] <diddledan> still a bug
[22:02] <daftykins> XD
[22:06] <shauno> argh
[22:06] <shauno> I've found the sandbox definition, but I can't find anything that has permission to edit it
[22:08] <diddledan> that's worrying
[22:36] <shauno> So you're allowed to write to /opt and /use/local
[22:37] <shauno> But if you remove usr/local you can't recreate it lol
[22:37] <diddledan> err.
[22:37] <diddledan> does fix permissions sort it?
[22:37] <shauno> This is fixed. It's a feature
[22:38] <diddledan> i.e. recreate it if missing
[22:38] <shauno> Hang on, I'll share what I've found when tits booted again. Stuck on my iPad at the moment
[22:39] <shauno> Re-running the installer :(
[22:39] <shauno> But this is .. Not impressed. The whole selling point was having a real Unix with a proper desktop
[22:40] <shauno> Sand boxing AppStore junk I can understand, but sand boxing me on my own bloody machine ?
[22:46] <diddledan> apple ftw?
[23:00] <zmoylan-pi> apple knows best
[23:00] <daftykins> think different.
[23:01] <zmoylan-pi> just because you're writing an app on a system you bought and paid for to deploy to a device you bought and paid for there's no reason you wouldn't double cross yourself :-P
[23:01] <shauno> I really hope this doesn't make it to release
[23:02] <shauno> Otherwise there's really no desktop OS left
[23:02] <daftykins> that sounds dangerously like you were claiming OS X to be the best!
[23:02] <shauno> I would easily call it the least worst
[23:03] <daftykins> heh, can't stand the window management myself
[23:03] <daftykins> seems they worked on that at last though!
[23:03] <zmoylan-pi> saying that in a linux channel.... brave... ;-)
[23:03]  * daftykins is typing from Windows 8D
[23:03] <shauno> Heh, I don't consider Linux a desktop OS. And as far as I can tell, neither do the gnome devs
[23:06] <shauno> I mean, everything I have it installed on, I can't imagine running anything else on. But a laptop really does seem to gather all its weaknesses in one place
[23:07] <daftykins> true, that
[23:07] <zmoylan-pi> i couldn't abide running any other os on a laptop
[23:10] <shauno> Windows seems to work fine once you've put a good 15-20 years into developing Stockholm syndrome
[23:11] <daftykins> :D
[23:13] <zmoylan-pi> when i did use windows i used cygwin and unixtools to add more useable software.  and used mostly open source software on top of it that is available for linux
[23:16] <shauno> I just find it way too foreign
[23:17] <shauno> That's pretty much it. Just foreign. It's way too far removed from anything else I've used.
[23:17] <shauno> You may as well dump me in Russia and tell me to figure out how to file taxes there
[23:18] <zmoylan-pi> i think you just give money till the nice policeman stops hitting you :-P
[23:21] <shauno> so, reinstalling did recreate /usr/local.  I just have to remember to move the contents, not the folder itself
[23:28] <diddledan> file a bug report