| === Fersure is now known as Guest6790 | ||
| dorelyo | exit | 08:45 |
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| nitrofurano | hi everyone! i'm trying to run Lubuntu in an old Pentium 4 computer (2ghz) with S3 Savage - while the display performance (like window dragging) on Crunchbang is very acceptable, on Lubuntu it is painfully slow (you see the window redraw from bottom to up during 2 seconds in each window moving) - do someone know where can i tweak Lubuntu for performing similarly to Crunchbang, at least on these display issues? (i guess it's a x-server i | 13:56 |
| nitrofurano | ssue or something like?) - the window managers i were using are those light ones, like Fluxbox, LXDE, WindowMaker, JWM, etc. - thanks! :) | 13:56 |
| holstein | nitrofurano: #! will be older.. you are not comparing apples to apples there.. there are more variables | 14:32 |
| holstein | but, you can always install minimal ubuntu | 14:32 |
| holstein | !mini | 14:32 |
| ubottu | The Minimal CD image is very small in size, and it downloads most packages from the Internet during installation, allowing you to select only those you want. The installer is text based (rather than graphical as used on the Desktop DVD). See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD | 14:32 |
| holstein | and just add openbox, or whatever you like.. though, i would try and do some testing and see if its hardware support related with the newer kernel.. | 14:32 |
| nitrofurano | i though that “fixing” that would be possible by simply tweaking, i didn’t want to do a fresh install again | 14:34 |
| holstein | nitrofurano: sure.. and im not implying you need to | 14:34 |
| nitrofurano | thanks | 14:34 |
| holstein | nitrofurano: im saying, if *i* wanted something closer to #!, since you mention it specifically, i would install minimal, and add openbox | 14:34 |
| holstein | i would then be able to move over the #! configs, and end up with basically #! with the ubuntu 15.04 base | 14:35 |
| holstein | but, for your specific case, you can just boot into an openbox session, and see.. the biggest variable for me would be the GPU driver support | 14:35 |
| holstein | lubuntu/lxde isnt doing any compositing.. in my hardware cases, specifically, lubuntu (any version) is quite similar in performance to #! (any version) | 14:36 |
| nitrofurano | yes, and i'm trying a lot of these light window managers (except those like ratpoison ) | 14:38 |
| holstein | cool.. i wouldnt bother with "a lot".. i would try a few, then, try isolating the GPU driver | 14:38 |
| holstein | anyways, first thing i would likely do, is just apply any updates.. sometimes, and kernel update can really make or break support | 14:39 |
| nitrofurano | using around PekWM, WindowLab, WM2, 9WM, etc - all behaves the same, lagging on window motion, around 2 seconds each window redraw - it feels like the cpu is a 8088 or something like... | 14:39 |
| holstein | i would use openbox, since, thats what you are comparing | 14:39 |
| nitrofurano | i also have openbox installed | 14:40 |
| holstein | try to get as close as you can to apples to apples, rather than apples to oranges | 14:40 |
| nitrofurano | they are all behaving all the same | 14:40 |
| holstein | you have *many* different things between #! and lubuntu | 14:40 |
| nitrofurano | yes, i see | 14:40 |
| holstein | you are assuming its lxde vs openbox.. or, crunchbang vs lubuntu.. so, maybe try, comparing the different kernels, and drivers in the modular kernel | 14:40 |
| nitrofurano | i guess the package of the module is xserver-xorg-video-savage ? perhaps it's some bug there, or just some misconfiguration/mistweaking? | 14:46 |
| holstein | nitrofurano: well, i dont think we can even throw around the term "bug" yet | 14:46 |
| nitrofurano | i see... | 14:47 |
| holstein | i mean, you could have a bug specific to just your hardware.. but, you also could just have older hardware.. or, a hardware issue.. | 14:47 |
| holstein | what would i do? if i had an installed system, first thing i would do is put a custom xorg.conf in place specifying the vesa driver | 14:47 |
| holstein | i wouldnt be worried about the resolution, etc.. i would literally just want to see, lubuntu, lxde, and the vesa driver.. isolating out the driver support from the current kernel im trying | 14:48 |
| holstein | *if* the desktop seems more performant, then, thats where i would start.. again, by simiply checking that the updates for my OS are applied, and that im booted into the most current kernel and kernel drivers for my hardware | 14:49 |
| nitrofurano | editing /etx/X11/xorg.conf ? where? | 14:49 |
| holstein | then, what i usually do is try a newer mainline kernel.. i know how to easily remove those mainline kernels.. also, i can test newer and older kernels with the live iso for different releases | 14:49 |
| holstein | nitrofurano: you wont be able to "edit" that file, since, its likely not there.. and again, this is *not* a "fix" for breakage, or a "bug".. this is just a simple way i would isolate out GPU driver support | 14:50 |
| holstein | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1270209 for example | 14:50 |
| holstein | i would drop that in as-is, knowing how to remove it using a live iso, or tty, if the system wont boot with it | 14:51 |
| holstein | im not trying to get the perfect desktop setup there.. i *know* the display resolution is going to be wrong, etc.. but, im just wanting to test opening and dragging a window or 2.. from that test i can get a better idea of what might be happening | 14:52 |
| holstein | then, i can make a note of what, in #! is supporting my hardware.. note the kernel version, etc.. | 14:52 |
| nitrofurano | yes, no problem about - so i'll backup the existing one and try this one from the weblink you provided | 14:52 |
| holstein | nitrofurano: you shouldnt have one | 14:52 |
| nitrofurano | i actually had one, because i needed some missing resolutions, like 1280x960 | 14:54 |
| holstein | nitrofurano: sure. so *that* can be breaking your setup | 14:54 |
| holstein | nitrofurano: try using the "stock" lubuntu and see how the performance is.. | 14:54 |
| holstein | http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man4/savage.4.html might be relevant, and able to be adapted | 14:54 |
| holstein | try, again, isolating.. try getting the desktop working, stock.. seeing the performance you want. *then* go from there implementing the modes you prefer | 14:55 |
| holstein | could be, your xorg.conf is from #!, and specifying something incorrectly to ubuntu | 14:55 |
| holstein | if you havent installed any proprietary GPU drivers, i would simply rename the xorg.conf you have put in place, and reboot, letting lubuntu specify as stock lubuntu would/should, and see how the perfomance is.. | 14:56 |
| nitrofurano | xorg.conf i have now there: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/xorgconf2aaa | 14:58 |
| holstein | nitrofurano: sure, have you changed the name of it? and rebooted to stock lubuntu? if not, try that | 14:58 |
| holstein | *then* you can try specifying the vesa driver.. and see how the performance is.. | 14:59 |
| nitrofurano | yes, i made a backup, replaced that, and now rebooting | 15:01 |
| holstein | nitrofurano: sure. *dont* replace it.. actually *dont* use an xorg.conf.. try with stock lubuntu | 15:02 |
| holstein | you can simply rename whatever you are using.. xorg.confBACKUP or whatever | 15:02 |
| nitrofurano | yes, it's a lot faster now! thanks! :) | 15:02 |
| holstein | cool.. so, dont use the same xorg.conf from #!.. just implement whatever desktop geometry you want a different way | 15:03 |
| nitrofurano | so would be better keeping that way, or should i try the savage driver later? and how can i add the respective line at xorg.conf? | 15:03 |
| nitrofurano | thanks! :) | 15:03 |
| holstein | nitrofurano: i would keep stock lubuntu, yes.. if its working, its working | 15:03 |
| holstein | i install and use arandr | 15:04 |
| nitrofurano | yes, it’s fine | 15:04 |
| holstein | !info arandr | 15:04 |
| ubottu | arandr (source: arandr): Simple visual front end for XRandR. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.1.7.1-1 (vivid), package size 66 kB, installed size 507 kB | 15:04 |
| nitrofurano | arandr? is that too much different from lxrandr (it's what i have being using more) | 15:04 |
| nitrofurano | ? | 15:04 |
| holstein | i try and find geometry settings there.. if not, i'll move to a custom xorg.conf | 15:04 |
| nitrofurano | ah ok, i think i never used arandr that way - i'll try later | 15:04 |
| nitrofurano | soon | 15:05 |
| holstein | nitrofurano: i install, and use it, on *all* systems, since, yes, in my experience, i find it *can* implent geometry not found in other gui's | 15:05 |
| holstein | and, i dont have to learn a new tool.. i can use arandr *everywhere*.. not needing the lxde, or gnome, or KDE, or whatever, specific tools | 15:05 |
| holstein | anyways, again, thats *not* a fix.. just a suggestion to see if the geometry you desire is available.. | 15:05 |
| nitrofurano | excellent! and thanks a lot!!!! :) | 15:06 |
| nitrofurano | have to go! bye, and thanks again! :) | 15:11 |
| holstein | o/ | 15:11 |
| nitrofurano | o/ | 15:11 |
| === Guest6790 is now known as Fersure | ||
| suncokret | will lubuntu plan to use systemd and when? | 16:36 |
| pleia2 | suncokret: lubuntu 15.04, which came out in April, uses systemd | 16:50 |
| suncokret | and can you use it without systemd? | 16:51 |
| pleia2 | there is not an option for that | 16:57 |
| pleia2 | it's open source, so you could rewrite the system and replace the init system, but that's a lot of work and it will likely be quite buggy | 16:57 |
| suncokret | if lubuntu 16.04 will also use systemd then i will stay on lubuntu 14.04 | 16:59 |
| pleia2 | I don't see Ubuntu (which Lubuntu is based on) changing direction with regard to systemd any time soon, 16.04 will have systemd | 17:01 |
| wxl | yeah i mean the whole world has went systemd, so :) | 17:01 |
| suncokret | so then i will stay on lubuntu 14.04 more than three years | 17:01 |
| suncokret | 14.04 works great and i don't have need to use 16.04 expecially if it use systemd which is bad | 17:02 |
| Eliz | *shrug* whatever floats your boat, but once support ends dunno what to tell ya | 17:02 |
| wxl | …in your opinion | 17:02 |
| Eliz | any particular reason you think it's "bad" besides popular (or impopular) opinion? | 17:02 |
| suncokret | it is bad because linux lose freedom to choice | 17:03 |
| wxl | there's no loss of such freedom | 17:03 |
| wxl | the choice is yours | 17:03 |
| Eliz | uh... what? lol | 17:03 |
| suncokret | we need to have choice without systemd | 17:03 |
| Eliz | to be completely fair | 17:04 |
| wxl | it's just that your distro of choice may not provide support mechanisms for such a choice | 17:04 |
| Eliz | you have the same amount of choice now that you did in the previous init system | 17:04 |
| Eliz | *shrug*.. | 17:04 |
| wxl | yep | 17:04 |
| Eliz | so, invalid it would seem, but given the channel I'll keep that debate out of here. | 17:04 |
| wxl | indeed | 17:04 |
| wxl | that being said, you've got our support on 14.04 for as long as we can give it suncokret | 17:04 |
| Unit193 | As of 15.05 you finally have a choice, before the system wouldn't work without upstart, for that release both are actually functional. :P | 17:05 |
| Eliz | s/05/04/ | 17:05 |
| suncokret | much people say that systemd is bad, and that is no need to use it | 17:06 |
| suncokret | but someone force linux distros to must use systemd | 17:07 |
| Unit193 | So how about you try it out and see if "it is bad" before you blindly follow the mass hurd. | 17:07 |
| wxl | any many people say it's not, suncokret, but this is a support channel and we're not going to entertain such discussions here. | 17:07 |
| suncokret | linus say it is bad... | 17:07 |
| wxl | suncokret: we are not going to entertain this discuss here. | 17:07 |
| wxl | s/discuss/discussion/ | 17:08 |
| suncokret | where is chanell for discussion? | 17:09 |
| suncokret | :) | 17:09 |
| pleia2 | there's no good place for a systemd argument | 17:10 |
| pleia2 | it's been decided already | 17:10 |
| wxl | #lubuntu-offtopic but i'm not sure you'll find anyone agreeing with you. if that's what you're looking for, try #systemd-haters | 17:10 |
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