[08:45] <dorelyo> exit
[13:56] <nitrofurano> hi everyone! i'm trying to run Lubuntu in an old Pentium 4 computer (2ghz) with S3 Savage - while the display performance (like window dragging) on Crunchbang is very acceptable, on Lubuntu it is painfully slow (you see the window redraw from bottom to up during 2 seconds in each window moving) - do someone know where can i tweak Lubuntu for performing similarly to Crunchbang, at least on these display issues? (i guess it's a x-server i
[13:56] <nitrofurano> ssue or something like?) - the window managers i were using are those light ones, like Fluxbox, LXDE, WindowMaker, JWM, etc. - thanks! :)
[14:32] <holstein> nitrofurano: #! will be older.. you are not comparing apples to apples there.. there are more variables
[14:32] <holstein> but, you can always install minimal ubuntu
[14:32] <holstein> !mini
[14:32] <holstein> and just add openbox, or whatever you like.. though, i would try and do some testing and see if its hardware support related with the newer kernel..
[14:34] <nitrofurano> i though that “fixing” that would be possible by simply tweaking, i didn’t want to do a fresh install again
[14:34] <holstein> nitrofurano: sure.. and im not implying you need to
[14:34] <nitrofurano> thanks
[14:34] <holstein> nitrofurano: im saying, if *i* wanted something closer to #!, since you mention it specifically, i would install minimal, and add openbox
[14:35] <holstein> i would then be able to move over the #! configs, and end up with basically #! with the ubuntu 15.04 base
[14:35] <holstein> but, for your specific case, you can just boot into an openbox session, and see.. the biggest variable for me would be the GPU driver support
[14:36] <holstein> lubuntu/lxde isnt doing any compositing.. in my hardware cases, specifically, lubuntu (any version) is quite similar in performance to #! (any version)
[14:38] <nitrofurano> yes, and i'm trying a lot of these light window managers (except those like ratpoison )
[14:38] <holstein> cool.. i wouldnt bother with "a lot".. i would try a few, then, try isolating the GPU driver
[14:39] <holstein> anyways, first thing i would likely do, is just apply any updates.. sometimes, and kernel update can really make or break support
[14:39] <nitrofurano> using around PekWM, WindowLab, WM2, 9WM, etc - all behaves the same, lagging on window motion, around 2 seconds each window redraw - it feels like the cpu is a 8088 or something like...
[14:39] <holstein> i would use openbox, since, thats what you are comparing
[14:40] <nitrofurano> i also have openbox installed
[14:40] <holstein> try to get as close as you can to apples to apples, rather than apples to oranges
[14:40] <nitrofurano> they are all behaving all the same
[14:40] <holstein> you have *many* different things between #! and lubuntu
[14:40] <nitrofurano> yes, i see
[14:40] <holstein> you are assuming its lxde vs openbox.. or, crunchbang vs lubuntu.. so, maybe try, comparing the different kernels, and drivers in the modular kernel
[14:46] <nitrofurano> i guess the package of the module is xserver-xorg-video-savage ? perhaps it's some bug there, or just some misconfiguration/mistweaking?
[14:46] <holstein> nitrofurano: well, i dont think we can even throw around the term "bug" yet
[14:47] <nitrofurano> i see...
[14:47] <holstein> i mean, you could have a bug specific to just your hardware.. but, you also could just have older hardware.. or, a hardware issue..
[14:47] <holstein> what would i do? if i had an installed system, first thing i would do is put a custom xorg.conf in place specifying the vesa driver
[14:48] <holstein> i wouldnt be worried about the resolution, etc.. i would literally just want to see, lubuntu, lxde, and the vesa driver.. isolating out the driver support from the current kernel im trying
[14:49] <holstein> *if* the desktop seems more performant, then, thats where i would start.. again, by simiply checking that the updates for my OS are applied, and that im booted into the most current kernel and kernel drivers for my hardware
[14:49] <nitrofurano> editing /etx/X11/xorg.conf ? where?
[14:49] <holstein> then, what i usually do is try a newer mainline kernel.. i know how to easily remove those mainline kernels.. also, i can test newer and older kernels with the live iso for different releases
[14:50] <holstein> nitrofurano: you wont be able to "edit" that file, since, its likely not there.. and again, this is *not* a "fix" for breakage, or a "bug".. this is just a simple way i would isolate out GPU driver support
[14:50] <holstein> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1270209 for example
[14:51] <holstein> i would drop that in as-is, knowing how to remove it using a live iso, or tty, if the system wont boot with it
[14:52] <holstein> im not trying to get the perfect desktop setup there.. i *know* the display resolution is going to be wrong, etc.. but, im just wanting to test opening and dragging a window or 2.. from that test i can get a better idea of what might be happening
[14:52] <holstein> then, i can make a note of what, in #! is supporting my hardware.. note the kernel version, etc..
[14:52] <nitrofurano> yes, no problem about - so i'll backup the existing one and try this one from the weblink you provided
[14:52] <holstein> nitrofurano: you shouldnt have one
[14:54] <nitrofurano> i actually had one, because i needed some missing resolutions, like 1280x960
[14:54] <holstein> nitrofurano: sure. so *that* can be breaking your setup
[14:54] <holstein> nitrofurano: try using the "stock" lubuntu and see how the performance is..
[14:54] <holstein> http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man4/savage.4.html might be relevant, and able to be adapted
[14:55] <holstein> try, again, isolating.. try getting the desktop working, stock.. seeing the performance you want. *then* go from there implementing the modes you prefer
[14:55] <holstein> could be, your xorg.conf is from #!, and specifying something incorrectly to ubuntu
[14:56] <holstein> if you havent installed any proprietary GPU drivers, i would simply rename the xorg.conf you have put in place, and reboot, letting lubuntu specify as stock lubuntu would/should, and see how the perfomance is..
[14:58] <nitrofurano> xorg.conf i have now there: https://etherpad.mozilla.org/xorgconf2aaa
[14:58] <holstein> nitrofurano: sure, have you changed the name of it? and rebooted to stock lubuntu? if not, try that
[14:59] <holstein> *then* you can try specifying the vesa driver.. and see how the performance is..
[15:01] <nitrofurano> yes, i made a backup, replaced that, and now rebooting
[15:02] <holstein> nitrofurano: sure. *dont* replace it.. actually *dont* use an xorg.conf.. try with stock lubuntu
[15:02] <holstein> you can simply rename whatever you are using.. xorg.confBACKUP or whatever
[15:02] <nitrofurano> yes, it's a lot faster now! thanks! :)
[15:03] <holstein> cool.. so, dont use the same xorg.conf from #!.. just implement whatever desktop geometry you want a different way
[15:03] <nitrofurano> so would be better keeping that way, or should i try the savage driver later? and how can i add the respective line at xorg.conf?
[15:03] <nitrofurano> thanks! :)
[15:03] <holstein> nitrofurano: i would keep stock lubuntu, yes.. if its working, its working
[15:04] <holstein> i install and use arandr
[15:04] <nitrofurano> yes, it’s fine
[15:04] <holstein> !info arandr
[15:04] <nitrofurano> arandr? is that too much different from lxrandr (it's what i have being using more)
[15:04] <nitrofurano> ?
[15:04] <holstein> i try and find geometry settings there.. if not, i'll move to a custom xorg.conf
[15:04] <nitrofurano> ah ok, i think i never used arandr that way - i'll try later
[15:05] <nitrofurano> soon
[15:05] <holstein> nitrofurano: i install, and use it, on *all* systems, since, yes, in my experience, i find it *can* implent geometry not found in other gui's
[15:05] <holstein> and, i dont have to learn a new tool.. i can use arandr *everywhere*.. not needing the lxde, or gnome, or KDE, or whatever, specific tools
[15:05] <holstein> anyways, again, thats *not* a fix.. just a suggestion to see if the geometry you desire is available..
[15:06] <nitrofurano> excellent! and thanks a lot!!!! :)
[15:11] <nitrofurano> have to go! bye, and thanks again! :)
[15:11] <holstein> o/
[15:11] <nitrofurano> o/
[16:36] <suncokret> will lubuntu plan to use systemd and when?
[16:50] <pleia2> suncokret: lubuntu 15.04, which came out in April, uses systemd
[16:51] <suncokret> and can you use it without systemd?
[16:57] <pleia2> there is not an option for that
[16:57] <pleia2> it's open source, so you could rewrite the system and replace the init system, but that's a lot of work and it will likely be quite buggy
[16:59] <suncokret> if lubuntu 16.04 will also use systemd then i will stay on lubuntu 14.04
[17:01] <pleia2> I don't see Ubuntu (which Lubuntu is based on) changing direction with regard to systemd any time soon, 16.04 will have systemd
[17:01] <wxl> yeah i mean the whole world has went systemd, so :)
[17:01] <suncokret> so then i will stay on lubuntu 14.04 more than three years
[17:02] <suncokret> 14.04 works great and i don't have need to use 16.04 expecially if it use systemd which is bad
[17:02] <Eliz> *shrug* whatever floats your boat, but once support ends dunno what to tell ya
[17:02] <wxl> …in your opinion
[17:02] <Eliz> any particular reason you think it's "bad" besides popular (or impopular) opinion?
[17:03] <suncokret> it is bad because linux lose freedom to choice
[17:03] <wxl> there's no loss of such freedom
[17:03] <wxl> the choice is yours
[17:03] <Eliz> uh... what? lol
[17:03] <suncokret> we need to have choice without systemd
[17:04] <Eliz> to be completely fair
[17:04] <wxl> it's just that your distro of choice may not provide support mechanisms for such a choice
[17:04] <Eliz> you have the same amount of choice now that you did in the previous init system
[17:04] <Eliz> *shrug*..
[17:04] <wxl> yep
[17:04] <Eliz> so, invalid it would seem, but given the channel I'll keep that debate out of here.
[17:04] <wxl> indeed
[17:04] <wxl> that being said, you've got our support on 14.04 for as long as we can give it suncokret
[17:05] <Unit193> As of 15.05 you finally have a choice, before the system wouldn't work without upstart, for that release both are actually functional. :P
[17:05] <Eliz> s/05/04/
[17:06] <suncokret> much people say that systemd is bad, and that is no need to use it
[17:07] <suncokret> but someone force linux distros to must use systemd
[17:07] <Unit193> So how about you try it out and see if "it is bad" before you blindly follow the mass hurd.
[17:07] <wxl> any many people say it's not, suncokret, but this is a support channel and we're not going to entertain such discussions here.
[17:07] <suncokret> linus say it is bad...
[17:07] <wxl> suncokret: we are not going to entertain this discuss here.
[17:08] <wxl> s/discuss/discussion/
[17:09] <suncokret> where is chanell for discussion?
[17:09] <suncokret> :)
[17:10] <pleia2> there's no good place for a systemd argument
[17:10] <pleia2> it's been decided already
[17:10] <wxl> #lubuntu-offtopic but i'm not sure you'll find anyone agreeing with you. if that's what you're looking for, try #systemd-haters