=== chriadam|away is now known as chriadam
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sturmflut2anybody here with an arale handset who could test a game for a moment?06:39
DanChapmanmorning all o/06:50
karniWhich 5.x Qt version do we have on the phone?07:20
karniI gather 14.10 is Qt 5.107:24
karnizbenjamin: yo bruh, you around?07:30
DanChapmankarni IIRC 14.10 == Qt5.3.1 and 15.04 == Qt 5.407:47
karniDanChapman: thank you, that's helpful :)07:49
popeykarni: DanChapman http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=libqt5core5a is handy for this.08:19
karnipopey: very handy! thank you08:19
zbenjaminkarni: yep08:19
zbenjamindidrocks: hey about bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu/+bug/1461597  .. we aready do the naming like that. No?08:20
ubot5Launchpad bug 1461597 in qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "kit names should contain device name + simplified framework version" [Medium,In progress]08:20
zbenjamindidrocks: "krillin" would be the model name08:21
zbenjamindidrocks: the device name would be by default "Ubuntu Device"08:21
zbenjamindidrocks: or did we want the default device name to be the "model name"08:22
didrockszbenjamin: IIRC, bzoltan renamed on his machine the kits name, so instead of "UbuntuSDK for armhf (GCC ubuntu-sdk-14.10-utopic)" he simplified it and we agreed that it would be a nice pattern to follow08:30
didrocksbzoltan: can you share what you renamed them to?08:31
didrocks(IIRC, we also told we can drop the -utopic)08:31
didrocksprobably GCC as well08:31
didrocksfor instance the "Desktop" one is a nice example, we can follow that scheme for other kits08:31
bzoltandidrocks: I simple renamed the device on the Devices page and deleted/recreated the Kit. As the Kit name comes from the device name .. what we should do is to give the name by the device type08:32
didrocksyeah, making sense08:33
bzoltanzbenjamin:  ^ Like krillin, mako, etc08:33
zbenjamindidrocks: bzoltan: well the UbuntuSDK for armhf (GCC ubuntu-sdk-14.10-utopic) is a special Kit. It is always autocreated even without a device08:39
zbenjamindidrocks: bzoltan: i can stop doing that but then users without a device won't have a kit08:40
seb128hum, are kits device specific?08:40
zbenjaminseb128: yes08:40
seb128in which way?08:40
seb128the sdk is the same on any device08:40
seb128I for sure didn't write a mako and a krillin version of my apps08:40
zbenjaminseb128: 14.10 vs 15.0408:40
seb128well, that's not a device difference08:41
seb128it's a software channel08:41
zbenjaminseb128: Kit != chroot. So if you know what you are doing you can of course manually change the device in a kit08:41
bzoltanseb128:  :) https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/blog/2015/03/18/everything-you-always-wanted-know-about-kits-were-afraid-ask/08:41
seb128bzoltan, thanks08:42
zbenjaminbzoltan: didrocks: we can of course always require a device in order to create a ubuntu kit08:42
zbenjaminbzoltan: didrocks: but that will make the first run wizard a bit more complex. And its a not so small task08:42
zbenjaminbzoltan: didrocks: because then the user needs to attach a device08:43
bzoltanzbenjamin:  having a generic Kit when no devices are available is good idea. That is different use case08:43
zbenjaminbzoltan: or we can just not automatically create them. But give the user a button somewhere to "Create generic Kit"08:43
bzoltanzbenjamin:  I would not overcomplicate ... as first step let's fix how we call our devices.08:43
zbenjaminbut where?08:43
zbenjaminbzoltan: thats not easy as well. The devices are called "Ubuntu Device" because atm where we detect them (device_search) we do not know the model name. As the device_search ALWAYS returns mako08:44
zbenjaminbzoltan: so we would need to reimplement the device_search script to do the right thing08:45
seb128I don't understand why I need different kits to deploy to a bq4.5 and a bq5 if they are on the same system image channel08:45
bzoltanzbenjamin: are you sure... I do not have my krillin with me, but I recall it reported to be krillin08:45
seb128those are exactly the same stacks08:45
zbenjaminseb128: whats the problem with having a different kit?08:46
bzoltanseb128:  Kits have devices assigned ... if you have two devices one 5 and one 4.5 the IDE should identify them08:46
didrockszbenjamin: I guess it's ok to recycle the generic Kit when creating an emulator device08:46
didrocksthat way we can fuzz out the confusion between kits and chroot08:46
bzoltanseb128:  and yes, they will use the very same chroot and toolchain08:46
seb128zbenjamin, it's confusing/noise/duplication08:47
didrockswhich is puzzling everyone, see seb128's case ;)08:47
didrocksand most of the feedback I had08:47
seb128didrocks, what is confusing me is not what we have now, but people wanting to use the device name08:47
bzoltanseb128: didrocks: this is something we can not help... contradictint requrements :)08:47
zbenjaminseb128: didrocks: as i said before Kits are a essential part of QtCreator they won't go away. And they provide a clean way to combine a toolchain and a device08:47
seb128hum, k08:48
seb128I don't understand what the device part is about, but alright08:48
didrocksseb128: what you think what you have today isn't actually what kit is :)08:48
zbenjaminseb128: wait we use the device name right now when you autocreate a kit08:48
didrocksseb128: even if I don't really like how this acts, I'm trying at least avoiding the confusion08:48
bzoltandidrocks: seb128:  folks want two contradicting features: 1) when I have two devices plugged in i want to be able to switch between them with a single move 2) I want a single clikc08:49
zbenjaminseb128: you will always need only one 15.04 chroot. A Kit is just a configuration thingie that tells QtC use that chroot with that device08:49
seb128zbenjamin, my kit is named "UbuntuSDK for armhf (GCC ubuntu-sdk-14.10-utopic)", no device name in there08:49
bzoltandidrocks: seb128: these two just simple do not blend :)08:49
zbenjaminseb128: so what you have now is, you can attach your 2 BQ devices at the same time, and by switching the Kit you can run your apps on them08:50
seb128zbenjamin, alright, the concept is a bit confusing, I would expect a "target platform" e.g sdk-15.04 and to pick a device where to deploy08:50
zbenjaminseb128: a different way would be to always only support one device being attached at the same time08:50
zbenjaminseb128: what device to pick if you have 2 15.04 attached?08:50
seb12815.04 what?08:51
seb128that's the software target08:51
seb128like the chroot08:51
seb128then the devices can be listed as "device to deplay to" in a combo or something08:51
seb128it's just confusing to mix the software platform you target with the actual devices08:51
didrocksseb128: the device target is a "kit" in qtcreator terminology08:51
zbenjaminso you want a combobox to pop up every time you press run?08:51
seb128no, I want to select a device and have that one used08:52
zbenjaminthats what you have now08:52
seb128didrocks, k, it's just the "kit" wording that is confusing then08:52
didrockszbenjamin: and a "use latest device" checkbox to avoid reasking for the session08:52
seb128they should call it "device"08:52
seb128or "deploy target"08:52
seb128when you tell me "kit" I don't think "device"08:52
didrocksseb128: bug #146102108:53
ubot5bug 1461021 in qtcreator-plugin-ubuntu (Ubuntu) "We should revise the use of the "kits" term" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/146102108:53
seb128didrocks, thanks :-)08:53
zbenjamindidrocks: you know that is a upstream bug right :D08:53
didrockszbenjamin: yeah, I'm still unsure it's not somewhere where we need to deviate from upstream08:53
zbenjamindidrocks: i think replacing strings is not a useful task. It will require us to carry distropatches around that do not add any value08:54
seb128they do add values if they make things less confusing for our users08:54
zbenjamindidrocks: if its called "Kit" or "Deploy Target" makes no difference. Its terminology , once learned you know what it means08:54
seb128"once learned"08:54
seb128it makes the learning curve more difficult08:54
bzoltanseb128:  The "Kit" is not a device either08:55
zbenjaminyes every new development ide will give you a learning curve. And QtCs is not the worst08:55
seb128and increase the chances people give up on your platform because they can't be bothered dealing with all the non-sense08:55
zbenjaminprobably the concept of "Kits" are not easy to understand. But a name won't change that08:56
zbenjaminthe concept will stay the same08:56
bzoltanseb128: I still do not understand why you think it is non-sense ... it totally makes sense. You are the one who wants two contradicting features :)08:56
seb128k, fair enough08:56
seb128bzoltan, I don't want any feature, "kit" just doesn't speak to me and I find it makes things confusing08:57
seb128I associated kit === chroot target08:57
seb128but apparently wrongly08:57
bzoltanseb128:  You do, but you do not realize .. you want to switch between multiple attached devices, right?08:57
seb128and I'm probably not the only one confused about that08:57
zbenjaminQt is not only high level software platform (15.04 vs 14.10) its also (armhf vs x86 vs any_other_arch) . By that you can not just have a device at the other end08:57
didrocksbzoltan: so, basically, in android studio, the mapping is more with what seb128 and I tought about08:58
didrocks(and I think it makes sense for most of developers)08:58
didrockslike you create a project08:58
didrocksselect a framework target (which is the chroot)08:58
didrocksthen, when you want to run it, there is a popup to select your device08:58
seb128zbenjamin, right, but I know that my devices are same archs and same ubuntu channels, basically they have the exact same software setup08:58
bzoltandidrocks:  keep in mind that android studio is a platform specific IDE08:58
didrocks(emulator or real device)08:58
zbenjamindidrocks: bzoltan: well what i could imagine is to have a "15.04-armhf" device. That automatically maps to a attached device that matches the description. But it will render all existing project configurations void08:58
didrocksbzoltan: we want to create the "ubuntu tools" though08:58
didrocksit being qtcreator is an implementation detail08:59
bzoltandidrocks:  we do08:59
zbenjamindidrocks: bzoltan: and its a month of work08:59
didrocksand should not change our goal08:59
didrockszbenjamin: hum, that would be a nice goal, not sure that's going to work when you have an emulator + a device attached09:00
didrocksfor instance09:00
zbenjamindidrocks: popups are sooooo 199009:00
didrocksso not sure it worthes it09:00
didrockszbenjamin: yeah, but you get it only once09:00
didrocksthen, it reuses the same device09:00
zbenjamindidrocks: exactly what i hate with dialogs. What if i want to change it ?09:00
didrocks(until it's unavailable of course)09:00
zbenjamindidrocks: i will need to search for the options somewhere09:00
didrocksyou have an entry for that09:00
didrocksyeah, that can be the "devices" mode09:01
didrocksas we have today09:01
zbenjaminwhy would i need a devices mode in that model?09:01
zbenjaminok for creating the emulators maybe09:01
zbenjaminbut i won't have a list of devices like i do know09:01
didrockszbenjamin: seeing connected device09:01
didrocksas there can be some connection issues09:01
didrocksor developer mode not switched on09:02
didrocksand so on09:02
zbenjaminall i would have is:   "15.04-armf, 15.04-i386, 14.10-armhf,...."09:02
zbenjamindidrocks: and you would definately loose the ability to attach more than one device. Probably the first attached device would always win09:02
zbenjaminor the last09:03
didrockszbenjamin: no, as you would ask when you start you project09:03
didrocksand run for the first time of the session09:03
zbenjaminWell either i have generic devices, or specific devices. I can not have both09:03
didrocksthen, you can reuse the "Run" button to change between device (but yeah, it's a major deviation from upstream)09:03
zbenjaminthe QtC has a device type called IDevice i need to derive from09:04
zbenjamini can not do both09:04
zbenjaminotherwise all devices would still show up and it would be a mess09:04
* zbenjamin thought this is a easy bug... just a quick change of some strings :D09:07
didrocksI guess we should really investigate on what the developers expect09:07
didrocksas in user testing09:07
didrocksI have the view on what others platforms are doing09:07
didrocksyou have the one specific to QtC09:08
didrocksso I guess the best would be to have "real world usage"09:08
didrockswith someone agnostic to the platform09:08
didrocksand see what they do expect when they create a project to target a framework/device09:08
didrocks(unsure how we can achieve it though)09:08
zbenjamindidrocks: :/09:20
didrockszbenjamin: I didn't dare asking for a pool, because you know… pools are answers to everything! :p09:21
zbenjamindidrocks: keep in mind we also will have "ubuntu desktop" device targets. That are not the traditional "Desktop" targets. Means they will be more like devices with click and so on09:21
zbenjamindidrocks: like this? http://www.pool-magazin.com/wp-content/gallery/50_elegantes_pooldesign/Pool.jpg :D09:22
bzoltandidrocks: sure we could use some user tests.. but note, that our IDE is out there for like 3 years for app development and I hav never received complainment about the Kit concept. Developers seem to understand that it is a Qt-ish thingy and they deal with it.09:22
didrockszbenjamin: oh yeah, I want that one, NOW! :-)09:22
zbenjamindidrocks: +1 :D09:23
didrocksbzoltan: yeah, but most of devs only had one device09:24
zbenjaminbzoltan: there are some bugs i would like to target to the new QtC release. Can we have a milestone for that?09:24
didrocksbzoltan: you never heard complain from seb128 for instance because he thought the Kit was something else09:24
bzoltandidrocks:  for those developers who we had interaction in the last years are not new to Qt ... BB, Meego, Sailfish all used QtC and most of the non android/ios linux mobile developers do understand the idea09:24
didrocksuntil he would try on a second one :)09:24
zbenjaminbzoltan: or should i just target it to 15.1009:25
bzoltandidrocks: I did hear seb128 as I did hear from few _only_ ubuntu _only_ gtk app developers... few, not many09:25
bzoltanseb128:  sorry dude :) There is a world outside of the bubble :)09:28
sturmflut2zbenjamin, bzoltan: I just created an empty "QML App with Simpe UI (qmlproject)" project for the 14.10 framework on my 15.04 desktop, and while it runs fine, I just get a lot of items saying "Error" when I go to the "Publish" tab and press on "Build and validate click package"09:29
seb128bzoltan, yeah, I'm unsure I consider myself as a gtk dev, I don't do much gtk nowadays, I spend more time on the touch code and qt/qml than on gtk for sure09:29
seb128bzoltan, also GTK doesn't have an IDE, so you can't say I was used at their tools :p09:29
zbenjaminsturmflut2: huh. Can you paste the output from the compiler tab?09:30
didrockszbenjamin: bzoltan: so, to come back on the bug, I think putting the device name as we originally plan, would be the less intrusive fix for now and giving a clearer idea of what a kit is09:30
didrocks(as we discussed during the sprint)09:30
didrocksat least, that would be a step in less confusion, and so right direction (even if as told, we need to dig more on this)09:31
didrocksand this is compatible with QtC paradigm09:31
bzoltanseb128: didrocks: to be honest I am serious about this. I am not defending anything... but for other linux SDKs it was pretty trivial and obvious that the toolchain+device type+API set needs an umbrella... here with ubuntu we are spoiled  with the luxury of using our own toolchain and targeting our native runtime environment. People developing on Win to Android or on Win to Meego used to deal with this.09:31
didrocksbzoltan: on Win to Android is closer to what want, so I wouldn't use that as an example09:32
bzoltandidrocks: +1 We need to hide the confusing parts. I think it is possible.... even with Kits :)09:32
sturmflut2zbenjamin: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11689200/ and https://i.imgur.com/bgkHFqS.jpg09:33
bzoltandidrocks:  because on Win to Android you use an IDE what was made for android ... if we would have chance to make our own IDE I am sure we could do the same. the trouble here is that we save massive work by using QtC what is made for other platforms too09:33
bzoltandidrocks: seb128: not to mention that Android Studio has a huuuuuge advantage... they do not need to figure out anything about toolchain and arch because they just know it. QtC does not, so we need an abstraction for that. Crap it is.. but we can not change that.09:35
didrocksbzoltan: I was just bouncing on your "people developing on Win to Android […] used to deal with this"09:35
bzoltandidrocks: seb128: so indeed having our own toolchain would make certain things simpler09:35
zbenjaminsturmflut2: ugh09:36
bzoltandidrocks:  bouncing onthat is accepted :) point there09:36
zbenjaminsturmflut2: what ubuntu version you running?09:36
sturmflut2zbenjamin: 15.04 on the development desktop09:36
zbenjaminsturmflut2: and that happens for all your apps or just that specific one?09:36
sturmflut2zbenjamin: excellent question, it just happened for the first time. Let me check.09:37
zbenjaminsturmflut2: and you do use the SDK ppa?09:38
sturmflut2zbenjamin: ...okay, I was using the SDK PPA for utopic on vivid09:41
sturmflut2shame on me09:41
zbenjaminsturmflut2: oh it still had "utopic" in it? :D09:42
zbenjaminsturmflut2: you need the ppa enabled on vivid too, just with the right version of course09:42
sturmflut2zbenjamin: apparently forgot to check all my PPAs when updating to vivid09:42
zbenjaminsturmflut2: normally they should be disabled automatically09:43
sturmflut2zbenjamin: Thanks for the hint, I would have never found out09:43
zbenjaminsturmflut2: lets see if it helps ;)09:43
sturmflut2zbenjamin: It does, all arrows green now09:44
zbenjaminsturmflut2: \o/09:44
zbenjaminsturmflut2: that was easy :D09:44
karnizbenjamin: I thought you'd be able to answer that question - what are disadvantages of developing an app with Qt quick controls VS Ubuntu components (besides 1. UC are more touch oriented 2. UC have Ubuntu look)09:53
zbenjaminkarni: well if you do not care about native look and feel, you probably won't have disadvantages. But note that you can mix both worlds09:54
zbenjaminkarni: just use namespaced imports09:55
zbenjaminkarni: and i'm not sure if quick controls are officially supported09:55
zbenjaminkarni: also on the QCS we heard that they work on QtQuickControls2 ... so not sure how much love the first version will receive now09:56
karnizbenjamin: I see09:56
karnizbenjamin: The question comes from the fact that I was interested in more customized application looks from our Ubuntu UI toolkit09:57
karniand was wondeing if 1) it's possible 2) anyone has already done that09:57
karniI guess the important question is then - whether quick controls are officially supported09:57
karnizbenjamin: don't our Ubuntu Components build on qt quick controls?09:58
karniI thought most of Ubuntu Components are actually relatively simple wrappers09:58
karnizbenjamin: oh, or rather - wrappers around QtQuick, not QtQuick.Controls10:05
nik90karni: I believe both qtquick controls and ubuntu-sdk components were developed at the same time in parallel..so for instance the SDK's Checkbox is different from the QtQuick Controls Checkbox component.10:06
nik90karni: however reading through https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/blog/2015/06/08/sprinting-convergence/, it seems it is planned to stay close to upstream where possible10:06
karninik90: I see. Do you know of examples of apps using qt quick controls, running on Ubuntu phone?10:06
karninik90: I'll admit I've only run over that article. I'll give it more thorough read, thank you :)10:07
nik90karni: I remember a long time trying to use the upstream qtquick controls in my app and it seems to work..although I cannot remember if it worked on the phone or on my desktop10:07
nik90long time ago*10:07
karninik90: I see, thanks :)10:08
avimhi. someone can help me what to do with package with depends? i want to create package for ubuntu phone. and click in the click package there is nothing about depends...10:08
popeyavim: you bundle the binaries into the package10:09
avimeven if the lib that i have depend on it is on ubuntu official repo?10:11
popeyclick packages have no deps10:12
popeyother than the framework which we provide on the device10:12
popeye.g. neverball in the store has a build of libsdl2 inside the package, so does neverputt, so a user who installs both gets two copies of libsdl210:13
avimok. thank you.10:13
dholbachdavidcalle, mhall119: I just got the following when trying to comment on a developer.u.c blog post: Forbidden (403)11:05
dholbachCSRF verification failed. Request aborted.11:05
dholbachMore information is available with DEBUG=True.11:05
dholbachin any case, I filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/developer-ubuntu-com/+bug/146377911:07
ubot5Launchpad bug 1463779 in Ubuntu Developer Portal "Commenting on blog posts is broken" [Undecided,New]11:07
davidcalledholbach :(11:09
* davidcalle -> lunch11:09
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mivoligorpadovani: ping11:55
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marioghey....I just followed the tutorial on adding settings to a scope: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/scopes/tutorials/adding-settings-to-your-scope/18:00
mariogby the way, after following these instructions, my scope does not have any settings and the "CONFIG EMPTY" error message is displayed when running it18:01
mariogcan anybody help me?18:01
popeyrenatu: could you take a look at this please https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qtpim-opensource-src/+bug/146298919:27
ubot5Launchpad bug 1462989 in qtpim-opensource-src (Ubuntu) "containsItems returned wrong value when checking all day event" [Undecided,New]19:27
popeyrenatu: may help  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-calendar-app/+bug/143730519:28
ubot5Launchpad bug 1437305 in qtorganizer5-eds (Ubuntu) "Wrong date day icon display and one day before events day in month view" [Undecided,Confirmed]19:28
popeyrenatu: also, any progress on https://bugs.launchpad.net/sync-monitor/+bug/1339016 ?19:28
ubot5Launchpad bug 1339016 in syncevolution (Ubuntu RTM) "Initial sync of the calendar takes a prohibitive amount of time" [Critical,In progress]19:28
renatupopey, the last one was released a long time ago19:31
renatupopey, could you check if this fix solves the problem: https://code.launchpad.net/~renatofilho/qtorganizer5-eds/fix-1437305/+merge/26166620:17
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