nlsthznmaaz tell kilos sorry I missed the ping, working nightshift03:53
Maaznlsthzn: Sure, I'll tell Kilos on freenode03:53
barrydkMore almal05:00
mazalMorning everyone05:01
=== rusbus is now known as Russ_|Away
=== Russ_|Away is now known as rusbus
=== Russ_|Away is now known as rusbus
mazalDoes anybody know if there is still an ISP that provide free local only data like we had when ADSL started ?05:36
ThatGraemeGuymazal: nope06:16
ThatGraemeGuyI think at this stage ISPs are still paying more per Mbps capacity on their IPC compared to what they are paying for international capacity06:16
ThatGraemeGuyit's a joke really06:17
Kilosmorning ThatGraemeGuy  and others06:17
ThatGraemeGuyhallo oom06:18
bmg505good morning06:30
pieter2627morning all06:33
Kiloshi bmg505  solidity  pieter2627  06:34
inetprogood mornings06:34
Kilosmorning inetpro  06:35
bmg505Interesting, had a guy complaining about his m$ product and that he must reload (he also implied he needs better software), so I explicitly told him "THIS IS MY EXPERIENCE". In shoirt told him in 2004 I loaded slamd64 on htis pc, upgrade later to clackware 64 and later to ubuntu 12.04 with out loosing data or needing to migrate data. His reply "I do not want to learn a new thing and linux is difficult to use" :)06:52
bmg505stupid was nog nooit slim nie06:52
bmg505rofl, now I see a post where he moans that his neew windows does not look like xp :)06:52
bmg505*look works and look06:53
Kiloseish bmg505  06:54
Kilosif only they would first just look and try ubuntu for a week06:54
Kilosanyone that knows enough about reloading win should find ubuntu a walk in the park06:57
solidityI tried ubuntu for several months. Went back to windows.06:57
* solidity hides.06:57
Kilosand online help is availble here and many other channel quick and easy and free06:57
bmg505Kilos, I have been my whole life in *nix based systems, and have tried to convince peeps, first thing they do is load wine. From there is just goes one way06:58
Kiloseish wine06:58
Kilosi dont even try it anymore, it crashed my 12.04 a couple of times, so now i leave it alone06:59
bmg505the only reason you will run m$ is accounting software. and obviously the alsa / usb stacks, but let me not start on that06:59
Kilosgames , everyone cries about games06:59
solidityI don't use any accounting software.07:00
bmg505worst is the "other sound system" worked 100% with all games etc, but the opensource zealots had to come and break it, same with usb07:00
bmg505damn, there I am starting again :(07:01
Kilosnice to see you chatting at least bmg505  , you lurk way too much07:02
bmg505solidity, I work for myself, and in 1998 win95 was costing me on average 1 to 2 hours per day. If I worked for a boss I would also be using m$ still, ooo and commercial software on *nix is more expensive than m$ but then it works and work and work07:03
solidityNaturally your OS choice depends on what you use computers for.07:03
bmg505gah, am to busy research and destruction keeps me way to busy, my buddies at #icculus also thought I am dead :(07:03
solidityFor a lot of people the monetary cost of windows is irrelevant to the usability though.07:04
Kiloswell you know we arent dead so a hi now and again will let us know you are kicking still and not kicked07:05
bmg505solidity, that is exactly why I run *nix, btw the company internal mail server is still a slackware 3.2 16M 486/dx4-100 machine07:06
bmg505busy virtualizing it now, I feel sad07:07
solidityThe average end user don't run mail servers though, your use case is very different.07:07
bmg505well we are doing something right, with a 1986 co reg number and still in the r+d business and still making money.07:09
solidityWhat area of R&D?07:10
bmg505embedded systems07:11
soliditySounds very technical.07:11
bmg505to think that 20 years ago arm research said they want to take over the portable cpu market, and surely they did :)07:11
bmg505solidity, www.lrlabs.com07:11
bmg505some of the crap we do07:12
solidityStill, you argument that people should use ubuntu because you find it easy doesn't really hold. A lot of people have technophobia, they see computers as mysterious black boxes of technomagic.07:16
solidityJust two days ago I got into an argument with my brother who tried to convince my mother to use ubuntu.07:17
solidityIt was quite clear from her expression she did not want to deal with learning a new system that, when things break, she would be completely helpless.07:17
solidityAnd things will break, I have never had a smooth experience with ubuntu.07:18
solidityEspecially if you have to use software built for windows.07:18
MaNIshe is probably completely helpless already, hence why your brother wants to install something that will be less of a pain for him when she inevitably demands his help07:18
solidityI disagree.07:19
MaNIbut are you the one who has to help her or is your brother?07:19
MaNIif its not you then you aren't in a position to say07:19
bmg505yea if she uses xp and now go to 7, 8 or 10 same will happen, at least with ubuntu you can create a vpn and access it over a dialup if you have to.07:19
solidityWe both have to, but I told my brother if it is ubuntu I'm not touching it.07:20
bmg505solidity, also my comment "once they install wine" you DO NOT USE WINDOWS SOFTWARE ON UNIX NEVER EVER.07:20
MaNIthat said having been there myself with my mother, the reason this breaks down is because at some point someone gives them a cute screensaver cd or some other gimmick and then they can't run it07:21
solidityMy brother wanted to install a VM, which I'm also against.07:21
solidityI doubt these proprietary software packages would be easy to run under wine, nor would it be a smart move.07:21
* pieter2627 thinks a VM is better than wine albeit more confusing07:22
MaNIdepends on the use case07:22
bmg505VM snapshots rocks07:22
MaNII get great usage out of both, but thats because I know what I'm doing07:22
solidityWell, I see it all the time, people recommend what they use, not what they think is best for who they are recommending for.07:23
solidityWatching my grandmother freak out at the ATM has taught me a lot about how non technical people view technology.07:24
solidityYou can only do the most basic of things on ubuntu without at some point having to open up the command line.07:25
MaNIsometimes yes, I think you over simplify the mother case though - often people have a mother who simply refuses to take the steps to learn even the basics, and insist someone else constantly baby sit there computer usage, I think (or at least used to think) that the person doing the baby sitting should have the right to choose whatever is less hassle for them to maintain07:25
solidityAnd if that is all you are using, might as well just get a chromebook.07:25
bmg505we have a ubuntu customer that uses a 14.04 LTS laptop and the accounts lady opens a VM that has pastel loaded, a few things she has noticed, why do you need a double click in windows, why does windows crash so much my laptop does not. She even now knows how to roll back to the default state snapshot, and worst is she had only 3 to 4 hours of ubuntu training.07:25
MaNIit breaks down however as I said above due to little 'cute' cds and stuff - so I've since learnt that its better to refuse to help the person entirely and force them to learn07:25
MaNIrefusal to learn is pure stubbornness and nothing else07:25
solidityWell, my mother doesn't do the cute cds thing.07:27
MaNIor you think she doesn't until you put her on ubuntu - and a year from now you will get a call asking why some cd someone gave her doesn't work07:27
* MaNI shrugs07:27
Kilosim so glad i looked for an alternative on my own, and met the guys here trying to get a virus and malware free OS going07:29
solidityShe has been using computers for decades, worked with mainframes back when she was in uni. She has at least half a clue about computers.07:30
solidityBut she also had a stroke a while back and finds it hard to learn new things.07:30
bmg505solidity, give her ubuntu and tell her it is a unisys sysv system, you will never hear from here again07:31
MaNIthen I don't see why she needs to be protected form learning new things07:31
MaNIergh - okay07:31
solidityhaha yeah no07:32
TinuvaMacmy gf's parents, have Manjaro installed07:39
TinuvaMacrarely have issues07:39
TinuvaMacthe only issue ive come accross, is the front headphone port not working because of a kernel update07:40
TinuvaMacso there is a use case ect07:40
MaNIyeah, every case is different07:40
bmg505the world is changing, people play with raspberry pi etc, although I hear the new one can run win 10, dunno how long the sdcard is going to last on that one07:42
Kilosif people arent even prepared to try another system, its useless trying to convince them07:42
bmg505and not forget android07:42
bmg505Kilos, or if they are set at running windows applications on the new platform07:42
Kilosthey must be left to start looking for an alternative on their own07:44
Kilosmy daughter uses win full time and used to say she has no interest in even looking at ubuntu, until her pc got killed bad then she tried ubuntu just to be able to get online07:45
TinuvaMacwell when the parents came to me saying they dont like Windows XP updates expiring, they want something preferably free, that wont get the updates and support stopped, and is easy enough to use,  I was like well then rolling release linux distro is about the only thing that fits them requirements07:45
MaNIwell as the generations swap it will change07:45
Kilosnow she loves it and always has a spare machine with ubuntu on07:45
MaNImy generations parents might be able to get away with the scared of computers excuse, but the next generations parents are pushing it07:46
MaNIand the ones after that will have no excuse etc.07:46
CryterionMorning Everyone07:46
Kiloshi Cryterion  07:46
MaNITinuvaMac, yeah if they came to you thats great makes things a lot simpler :)07:47
Kiloswe also have 2 guys that come here when they have probs with ubuntu07:47
Kilosthey are 72 and 60 something07:47
Kilos80 some07:48
TinuvaMacnowadays you can install teamviewer on linux too07:48
TinuvaMacmakes it super simple to help remotely07:48
TinuvaMaceven if you only need to view the screen07:48
Kiloswhen my son spends some time here he teamviews his clients from my kde07:49
Kilosold saying, there are none so blind as those that will not see07:53
TinuvaMactrue that07:55
Kiloshi Jacques_Stry  08:02
elachecheKilos, inetpro didn't understand why you tell him about lunapersa x(08:04
Kiloshi mazal  barrydk  08:46
mazalGaanit oom08:46
Kilosok dankie en daar?08:47
mazalSukkel om aan die gang te kom , vrisend kou , maar anders goed oom08:47
Kilosja ek koud ook08:47
mazalBye for now everyone12:44
inetpro@Eskom_SA #ICYMI: Eskom has implemented #load_shedding 2 from 16h00 to 22h00. Please check your schedules to see if/when will you be affected.15:06
* inetpro wonders what #ICYMI stands for15:06
KilosMaaz  google what is ICYMI15:07
MaazKilos: "What does ICYMI mean? - ICYMI Definition - Meaning of ICYMI ..." http://www.internetslang.com/ICYMI-meaning-definition.asp :: "ICYMI - What does ICYMI stand for?" http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/ICYMI :: "What does ICYMI stand for? - Abbreviations.com" http://www.abbreviations.com/ICYMI :: "Meaning of ICYMI - What does ICYMI mean? - ICYMI definition"15:07
Maazhttp://slang.org/ICYMI-meaning-definition :: "Urban Dictionary: icymi" http://www.urbandiā€¦15:07
inetprothat that would be In Case You Missed It15:08
inetproguess that*15:08
Kilossjoe i hate all these things15:10
Kilosi get totally lost15:10
* pieter2627 then has to do something while still having his leaves15:10
pieter2627see tomorrow again15:10
Kiloscheers pie15:11
Kiloskeep well15:11
mazalI hate updates15:21
mazalWastes my data and time15:21
mazalOr let me be more specific , I hate updates that fail15:21
Kilosi havent had the prob for a long time now15:22
mazalHave a 1.4gig COD update , ran it twice and both times failed at 80% , lots of data lost as I must start over everytime15:22
mazalThen abandoned that , get onto pc and now this thing also has updates15:22
mazalSo it's "updates to annoy mazal" evening tonight15:23
Kilosuse synaptic then it fetches only what it missed last time15:23
mazalOooooh I wish15:24
Kilosyou got a bad connection there?15:24
mazalThe 1.4gig one is on PS3 and the pc ones is on Win 715:24
Kilosyes man it asks you do you want to continue without something and you choose no15:24
Kilosoh well15:25
Kilosi thought you using an OS15:25
mazalPS3 is OS of champions , Linux15:25
mazalToo bad SA doesn't have proper internet15:25
Kilosi wonder if you can work upgrades with wget15:26
Kilosthen -c would just fetch whats missing15:26
mazalSo now I have to get creative and do 1 PS3 with scheduling after 12 tonight and then do the 2nd one tomorrow night after 12 and move my PS+ settings around15:27
mazalBig shlep15:27
Kilosyou got too many toys15:27
mazalAll because Inet is useless in SA15:27
mazalOom we have LAN day Saturday so I have to get both updated before week end15:28
mazalOk , the winsux ones are finished , need to restart this thing15:28
mazalOom reckon I have too many toys ?15:34
mazalHi Cryterion 15:43
* Kilos waits for power to disappear16:57
mazalI have no idea how late ours will go down if it goes down17:04
Kilosi think if we can stay power on till 8.15pm then it wont go off17:30
Kilosinetpro  you got power?17:30
mazalHere it must be around 9:20 before it's safe17:31
CryterionIt's off here17:31
Kilosoh my, i thought they stop shedding at 10pm17:31
Cryterion1:30 so far17:31
Kiloseish Cryterion  17:31
Cryterionshould be back in at 8, hopefully lol17:32
Kilosya i thought the latest shed was 8pm to 10pm17:32
Kilosbut sometimes they anything up to 15 mins off either way17:33
CryterionI get that timeslot sunday nights :(17:33
Kilosif mine goes off at 8 i go sleep17:33
CryterionI fatten my laptop battery then17:34
Kiloshow long do they last?17:34
Kilosim trying to get one from ian but battery stuffed and not being cheap i wont buy one if it cant do a few hours at least17:35
mazalI actually want to move over to only using laptop17:38
mazalHere at us it goes off at anytime , they never stick to schedules17:38
mazalAmazing that I haven't lost data ot got damaged OS yet17:39
* Cryterion-- needs to get that generator he's saved for17:39
* Cryterion-- waits for ping timeout. grr17:40
Kilostell me man, how long just a lappy battery last from full17:41
Cryterion--mine 1:3017:41
mazalKilos, depends what you do17:42
mazalHow hard the cpu is working , you have usb device plugged in , dvd-rom working etc.17:42
Cryterion--30mins of hdd and cdr are running full time17:42
Kilosi would just use it for irc and pidgin17:43
Cryterion--2hrs if new17:43
Kilosand maybe a couple of wiki pages17:43
Kiloseish is that all17:43
Cryterion--dim the display for extra17:43
Cryterion--std is about 2hrs17:44
Kilosthats sad17:44
mazalOk , I go mine for uranium while my power is on :P17:44
Kilosi was hoping for 4 or 5 hours17:44
Kiloslol mazal  enjoy17:44
Cryterion--get extra batteries then17:44
Kilosbelow 2517:44
Cryterion--below 200 now17:45
Kilosi cant do all that again from scratch17:46
Kilosmy main mine was 3k or 5 k down, i forget17:46
mazalCryterion , server crashed again17:46
mazalAnd all I did was started mining17:46
mazalSame area that I was in before though17:46
Cryterion--will look just now. laptop flat and on phone atm17:47
Cryterion--10mins or so i should have power back17:48
mazalK , normal manual mining with obsidian hammer17:48
mazalBefore I started I check in chest what is there , but took nothing out and closed it17:48
Kiloseish no lazer or drill17:48
mazalThat hammer is boss oom17:48
Cryterion--better than lazer17:49
mazalSame as mk3 drill without the hassle of charging and MUCH faster and easier to craft17:49
Kilosi liked the mark3 drill17:49
Kilosall my hard work gone17:49
Cryterion--just repair after about 500 hits17:50
Kilos2 nuke power stations17:50
Kilosill stick to playing freenode17:50
Kilosi mean freecell17:51
Cryterion--we putting second online some17:51
Cryterion--freecell :)17:51
mazalIt's as if this server knows I am 2gig overspend on my data and don't want me to play :(17:51
Cryterion--intellegent servers come from south africa ;)17:52
mazalBut let me not get started on the updates thing again :P17:52
mazalI rather go take SB17:52
Cryterion--ve got a nice update coming soon17:53
mazalCryterion--, it was " being onnoyed by updates night " here for me the whole evening17:59
mazalThen oom Kilos insulted my poor PS3's OS17:59
mazalAnd then said I have to many toys :)17:59
Kilosi was hoping for something like this17:59
Kilosi dont know ps3's or xboxes18:00
mazalAnd he doesn't even know about the 3rd PS3 I also have18:00
Kiloswow 318:00
mazalTechnically 418:00
Kilosthats why you sukkel18:00
mazalBut 1 is broken :P18:00
Kilosattention devided18:00
Cryterion--my son has a ps3. never played on it myself18:00
Kiloswhat is broken18:01
mazalThe 4th PS318:01
Kiloswhat man18:01
mazalThe blue-ray eye18:01
Kiloscant they do anything without that18:01
mazalYeah , but too expensive , not worth it18:03
Kilosmust it have blueray18:03
mazalOh and I have 2 racing wheels for them. And a gaming pc and a Ubuntu pc18:03
mazalAnd it's not toys , it's entertainment18:03
Kilostoys are us you sound like18:04
Cryterion--finally eishkom back18:04
mazalAnd I had 2 xboxes18:04
mazalTechnically 318:04
mazal1 Broken18:04
Kilosyou earn too much18:04
MaNIwhew, thought the lights were gone for good this time18:05
mazalNo I just have lots of credit card dept18:05
mazalSold the other 2 quickly , cos they don't last18:05
mazalSo when it's updates night here things gets , well , "busy"18:06
mazalAnd it's simply amazing how everything gets updates always on the same day18:06
mazalStrange how that works18:06
rusbusfunny how nature do dat18:07
mazalI see my graphics drivers ALSO needs an update18:07
mazalThe only things in here that didn't want to update tonight is the TV18:07
Kiloswhew those blue ray things are 900 bucks18:09
mazalThey qouted me R1500 rand oom18:09
mazalAnd the machine is 6+ years old so said no thanx18:10
Kilosoh arent they the same as those for pcs18:10
mazalNo use spending that and 3 months donw the line it YLOD's18:10
mazalIn red zone here now18:11
mazalPower might go , or might not go18:11
Cryterion90 to 10 chance18:12
MaNIours went, then came, then went again 18:20
MaNIthrilling stuff18:20
MaNIdon't think the substations and transformers like this outage business at all not what they were designed for18:21
inetproguten abend18:23
Kiloshi inetpro  18:24
inetprooom Kilos no, I have power18:24
inetprooops... yes, I have power18:24
inetproit's only Sundays and Tuesdays where they knowck me off the grid in the evening18:25
inetproknock* 18:25
inetproIIRC at least18:25
Kilosai! why didnt they make it wednesday18:25
inetprogood question18:26
inetprouh, was that a question even?18:27
Kilosspeak to them man18:27
Kilosi cant do everything18:27
Kilosdo they do all the power cuts from pcs?18:27
Kilosif so hack it and change days18:28
inetproKilos: what did you want to tell me about elacheche's luna?18:28
MaNIapparently its manual18:28
Kilosthat we know here 18:28
Kilosher on the council18:29
inetproKilos: she's on the Loco Council18:29
Kilosshe is his boss hehe18:29
inetpronot the CC18:29
Kilosoh my now i gotta start looking again18:29
inetproKilos: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-lococouncil/+members#active18:29
inetprowhat do they do even?18:32
Kilosvote in board members hehe18:33
inetprolooks like that page needs some updating18:34
Kilosya only stuff where cheche is involved is kept up to date18:39
Kilosother peeps dont have time18:39
Kilosinetpro  can QA do the minutes thing yet?18:45
Kilosjust checking18:45
inetproKilos: no18:45
inetprobut I can work on it18:45
Kilosstill no rush18:45
Kilosi spose i could even get meetingology there18:46
Kiloswhat did you break sticky19:03
Kilosstickyboy  as well19:04
mazalNight everyone19:05
mazalSleep well19:05
Kilosyou take over19:23
Kilosi dont know the other stuffs19:23
Kilosinetpro  ^^19:25
inetprogood night everyone20:01
Kilosnight inetpro  20:01
Kilossleep tight , ty for the hard work20:01
Kilossuch a quiet night here20:02
inetproplaying minetest is harder work20:02
Kilosnight all. sleep tight20:08
smileSlaapwel :)22:01

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