[03:53] <nlsthzn> maaz tell kilos sorry I missed the ping, working nightshift
[03:53] <Maaz> nlsthzn: Sure, I'll tell Kilos on freenode
[05:00] <barrydk> More almal
[05:01] <mazal> Morning everyone
[05:36] <mazal> Does anybody know if there is still an ISP that provide free local only data like we had when ADSL started ?
[06:15] <ThatGraemeGuy> morning
[06:16] <ThatGraemeGuy> mazal: nope
[06:16] <ThatGraemeGuy> I think at this stage ISPs are still paying more per Mbps capacity on their IPC compared to what they are paying for international capacity
[06:17] <ThatGraemeGuy> it's a joke really
[06:17] <Kilos> morning ThatGraemeGuy  and others
[06:18] <ThatGraemeGuy> hallo oom
[06:30] <bmg505> good morning
[06:31] <solidity> morning
[06:33] <pieter2627> morning all
[06:34] <Kilos> hi bmg505  solidity  pieter2627  
[06:34] <inetpro> good mornings
[06:35] <Kilos> morning inetpro  
[06:52] <bmg505> Interesting, had a guy complaining about his m$ product and that he must reload (he also implied he needs better software), so I explicitly told him "THIS IS MY EXPERIENCE". In shoirt told him in 2004 I loaded slamd64 on htis pc, upgrade later to clackware 64 and later to ubuntu 12.04 with out loosing data or needing to migrate data. His reply "I do not want to learn a new thing and linux is difficult to use" :)
[06:52] <bmg505> stupid was nog nooit slim nie
[06:52] <bmg505> rofl, now I see a post where he moans that his neew windows does not look like xp :)
[06:53] <bmg505> *look works and look
[06:54] <Kilos> eish bmg505  
[06:54] <Kilos> if only they would first just look and try ubuntu for a week
[06:57] <Kilos> anyone that knows enough about reloading win should find ubuntu a walk in the park
[06:57] <solidity> I tried ubuntu for several months. Went back to windows.
[06:57]  * solidity hides.
[06:57] <Kilos> and online help is availble here and many other channel quick and easy and free
[06:58] <bmg505> Kilos, I have been my whole life in *nix based systems, and have tried to convince peeps, first thing they do is load wine. From there is just goes one way
[06:58] <Kilos> eish wine
[06:59] <Kilos> i dont even try it anymore, it crashed my 12.04 a couple of times, so now i leave it alone
[06:59] <bmg505> the only reason you will run m$ is accounting software. and obviously the alsa / usb stacks, but let me not start on that
[06:59] <Kilos> lol
[06:59] <Kilos> games , everyone cries about games
[07:00] <solidity> I don't use any accounting software.
[07:00] <bmg505> worst is the "other sound system" worked 100% with all games etc, but the opensource zealots had to come and break it, same with usb
[07:01] <bmg505> damn, there I am starting again :(
[07:02] <Kilos> hehe
[07:02] <Kilos> nice to see you chatting at least bmg505  , you lurk way too much
[07:03] <bmg505> solidity, I work for myself, and in 1998 win95 was costing me on average 1 to 2 hours per day. If I worked for a boss I would also be using m$ still, ooo and commercial software on *nix is more expensive than m$ but then it works and work and work
[07:03] <solidity> Naturally your OS choice depends on what you use computers for.
[07:03] <bmg505> gah, am to busy research and destruction keeps me way to busy, my buddies at #icculus also thought I am dead :(
[07:04] <bmg505> +1
[07:04] <solidity> For a lot of people the monetary cost of windows is irrelevant to the usability though.
[07:05] <Kilos> well you know we arent dead so a hi now and again will let us know you are kicking still and not kicked
[07:06] <bmg505> solidity, that is exactly why I run *nix, btw the company internal mail server is still a slackware 3.2 16M 486/dx4-100 machine
[07:07] <bmg505> busy virtualizing it now, I feel sad
[07:07] <solidity> The average end user don't run mail servers though, your use case is very different.
[07:07] <solidity> doesn't*
[07:09] <bmg505> well we are doing something right, with a 1986 co reg number and still in the r+d business and still making money.
[07:10] <solidity> What area of R&D?
[07:11] <bmg505> embedded systems
[07:11] <solidity> Sounds very technical.
[07:11] <bmg505> to think that 20 years ago arm research said they want to take over the portable cpu market, and surely they did :)
[07:11] <bmg505> solidity, www.lrlabs.com
[07:12] <bmg505> some of the crap we do
[07:16] <solidity> Still, you argument that people should use ubuntu because you find it easy doesn't really hold. A lot of people have technophobia, they see computers as mysterious black boxes of technomagic.
[07:16] <Kilos> lol
[07:17] <solidity> Just two days ago I got into an argument with my brother who tried to convince my mother to use ubuntu.
[07:17] <solidity> It was quite clear from her expression she did not want to deal with learning a new system that, when things break, she would be completely helpless.
[07:18] <solidity> And things will break, I have never had a smooth experience with ubuntu.
[07:18] <solidity> Especially if you have to use software built for windows.
[07:18] <MaNI> she is probably completely helpless already, hence why your brother wants to install something that will be less of a pain for him when she inevitably demands his help
[07:19] <Kilos> +1
[07:19] <solidity> I disagree.
[07:19] <MaNI> but are you the one who has to help her or is your brother?
[07:19] <MaNI> if its not you then you aren't in a position to say
[07:19] <bmg505> yea if she uses xp and now go to 7, 8 or 10 same will happen, at least with ubuntu you can create a vpn and access it over a dialup if you have to.
[07:20] <solidity> We both have to, but I told my brother if it is ubuntu I'm not touching it.
[07:20] <bmg505> solidity, also my comment "once they install wine" you DO NOT USE WINDOWS SOFTWARE ON UNIX NEVER EVER.
[07:21] <MaNI> that said having been there myself with my mother, the reason this breaks down is because at some point someone gives them a cute screensaver cd or some other gimmick and then they can't run it
[07:21] <solidity> My brother wanted to install a VM, which I'm also against.
[07:21] <solidity> I doubt these proprietary software packages would be easy to run under wine, nor would it be a smart move.
[07:22]  * pieter2627 thinks a VM is better than wine albeit more confusing
[07:22] <MaNI> depends on the use case
[07:22] <bmg505> VM snapshots rocks
[07:22] <MaNI> I get great usage out of both, but thats because I know what I'm doing
[07:23] <solidity> Well, I see it all the time, people recommend what they use, not what they think is best for who they are recommending for.
[07:24] <solidity> Watching my grandmother freak out at the ATM has taught me a lot about how non technical people view technology.
[07:25] <solidity> You can only do the most basic of things on ubuntu without at some point having to open up the command line.
[07:25] <MaNI> sometimes yes, I think you over simplify the mother case though - often people have a mother who simply refuses to take the steps to learn even the basics, and insist someone else constantly baby sit there computer usage, I think (or at least used to think) that the person doing the baby sitting should have the right to choose whatever is less hassle for them to maintain
[07:25] <solidity> And if that is all you are using, might as well just get a chromebook.
[07:25] <bmg505> we have a ubuntu customer that uses a 14.04 LTS laptop and the accounts lady opens a VM that has pastel loaded, a few things she has noticed, why do you need a double click in windows, why does windows crash so much my laptop does not. She even now knows how to roll back to the default state snapshot, and worst is she had only 3 to 4 hours of ubuntu training.
[07:25] <MaNI> it breaks down however as I said above due to little 'cute' cds and stuff - so I've since learnt that its better to refuse to help the person entirely and force them to learn
[07:25] <MaNI> refusal to learn is pure stubbornness and nothing else
[07:27] <solidity> Well, my mother doesn't do the cute cds thing.
[07:27] <MaNI> or you think she doesn't until you put her on ubuntu - and a year from now you will get a call asking why some cd someone gave her doesn't work
[07:27]  * MaNI shrugs
[07:29] <Kilos> im so glad i looked for an alternative on my own, and met the guys here trying to get a virus and malware free OS going
[07:30] <solidity> She has been using computers for decades, worked with mainframes back when she was in uni. She has at least half a clue about computers.
[07:30] <solidity> But she also had a stroke a while back and finds it hard to learn new things.
[07:31] <bmg505> solidity, give her ubuntu and tell her it is a unisys sysv system, you will never hear from here again
[07:31] <MaNI> then I don't see why she needs to be protected form learning new things
[07:31] <MaNI> ergh - okay
[07:32] <solidity> haha yeah no
[07:39] <TinuvaMac> my gf's parents, have Manjaro installed
[07:39] <TinuvaMac> rarely have issues
[07:40] <TinuvaMac> the only issue ive come accross, is the front headphone port not working because of a kernel update
[07:40] <TinuvaMac> so there is a use case ect
[07:40] <MaNI> yeah, every case is different
[07:42] <bmg505> the world is changing, people play with raspberry pi etc, although I hear the new one can run win 10, dunno how long the sdcard is going to last on that one
[07:42] <Kilos> if people arent even prepared to try another system, its useless trying to convince them
[07:42] <bmg505> and not forget android
[07:42] <bmg505> Kilos, or if they are set at running windows applications on the new platform
[07:43] <Kilos> yeah
[07:44] <Kilos> they must be left to start looking for an alternative on their own
[07:45] <Kilos> my daughter uses win full time and used to say she has no interest in even looking at ubuntu, until her pc got killed bad then she tried ubuntu just to be able to get online
[07:45] <TinuvaMac> well when the parents came to me saying they dont like Windows XP updates expiring, they want something preferably free, that wont get the updates and support stopped, and is easy enough to use,  I was like well then rolling release linux distro is about the only thing that fits them requirements
[07:45] <MaNI> well as the generations swap it will change
[07:45] <Kilos> now she loves it and always has a spare machine with ubuntu on
[07:46] <MaNI> my generations parents might be able to get away with the scared of computers excuse, but the next generations parents are pushing it
[07:46] <MaNI> and the ones after that will have no excuse etc.
[07:46] <Cryterion> Morning Everyone
[07:46] <Kilos> hi Cryterion  
[07:47] <MaNI> TinuvaMac, yeah if they came to you thats great makes things a lot simpler :)
[07:47] <Kilos> we also have 2 guys that come here when they have probs with ubuntu
[07:47] <Kilos> they are 72 and 60 something
[07:48] <Kilos> 80 some
[07:48] <TinuvaMac> nowadays you can install teamviewer on linux too
[07:48] <TinuvaMac> makes it super simple to help remotely
[07:48] <Kilos> yip
[07:48] <TinuvaMac> even if you only need to view the screen
[07:49] <Kilos> when my son spends some time here he teamviews his clients from my kde
[07:53] <Kilos> old saying, there are none so blind as those that will not see
[07:55] <TinuvaMac> true that
[08:00] <Jacques_Stry> Morning
[08:02] <Kilos> hi Jacques_Stry  
[08:04] <elacheche> Kilos, inetpro didn't understand why you tell him about lunapersa x(
[08:06] <Kilos> hahaha
[08:43] <mazal> Hello
[08:46] <Kilos> hi mazal  barrydk  
[08:46] <mazal> Gaanit oom
[08:47] <Kilos> ok dankie en daar?
[08:47] <mazal> Sukkel om aan die gang te kom , vrisend kou , maar anders goed oom
[08:47] <Kilos> ja ek koud ook
[12:44] <mazal> Bye for now everyone
[15:05] <inetpro> eish!
[15:06] <Kilos> what?
[15:06] <Kilos> shedding?
[15:06] <inetpro> @Eskom_SA #ICYMI: Eskom has implemented #load_shedding 2 from 16h00 to 22h00. Please check your schedules to see if/when will you be affected.
[15:06] <Kilos> eish
[15:06]  * inetpro wonders what #ICYMI stands for
[15:07] <Kilos> Maaz  google what is ICYMI
[15:07] <Maaz> Kilos: "What does ICYMI mean? - ICYMI Definition - Meaning of ICYMI ..." http://www.internetslang.com/ICYMI-meaning-definition.asp :: "ICYMI - What does ICYMI stand for?" http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/ICYMI :: "What does ICYMI stand for? - Abbreviations.com" http://www.abbreviations.com/ICYMI :: "Meaning of ICYMI - What does ICYMI mean? - ICYMI definition"
[15:07] <Maaz> http://slang.org/ICYMI-meaning-definition :: "Urban Dictionary: icymi" http://www.urbandi…
[15:08] <inetpro> that that would be In Case You Missed It
[15:08] <inetpro> guess that*
[15:10] <Kilos> sjoe i hate all these things
[15:10] <Kilos> i get totally lost
[15:10]  * pieter2627 then has to do something while still having his leaves
[15:10] <pieter2627> see tomorrow again
[15:11] <Kilos> cheers pie
[15:11] <Kilos> keep well
[15:11] <Kilos> ai!
[15:21] <mazal> I hate updates
[15:21] <Kilos> why?
[15:21] <mazal> Wastes my data and time
[15:21] <Kilos> lol
[15:21] <mazal> Or let me be more specific , I hate updates that fail
[15:22] <Kilos> i havent had the prob for a long time now
[15:22] <mazal> Have a 1.4gig COD update , ran it twice and both times failed at 80% , lots of data lost as I must start over everytime
[15:22] <mazal> Then abandoned that , get onto pc and now this thing also has updates
[15:22] <Kilos> eissh
[15:23] <mazal> So it's "updates to annoy mazal" evening tonight
[15:23] <Kilos> use synaptic then it fetches only what it missed last time
[15:24] <mazal> Oooooh I wish
[15:24] <Kilos> you got a bad connection there?
[15:24] <mazal> The 1.4gig one is on PS3 and the pc ones is on Win 7
[15:24] <Kilos> yes man it asks you do you want to continue without something and you choose no
[15:25] <Kilos> oh well
[15:25] <Kilos> i thought you using an OS
[15:25] <mazal> PS3 is OS of champions , Linux
[15:25] <mazal> Too bad SA doesn't have proper internet
[15:26] <Kilos> i wonder if you can work upgrades with wget
[15:26] <Kilos> then -c would just fetch whats missing
[15:27] <mazal> So now I have to get creative and do 1 PS3 with scheduling after 12 tonight and then do the 2nd one tomorrow night after 12 and move my PS+ settings around
[15:27] <mazal> Big shlep
[15:27] <Kilos> sjoe
[15:27] <Kilos> you got too many toys
[15:27] <mazal> All because Inet is useless in SA
[15:28] <mazal> Oom we have LAN day Saturday so I have to get both updated before week end
[15:28] <mazal> Ok , the winsux ones are finished , need to restart this thing
[15:34] <mazal> Oom reckon I have too many toys ?
[15:43] <mazal> Hi Cryterion 
[16:57]  * Kilos waits for power to disappear
[17:04] <mazal> I have no idea how late ours will go down if it goes down
[17:30] <Kilos> i think if we can stay power on till 8.15pm then it wont go off
[17:30] <Kilos> inetpro  you got power?
[17:31] <mazal> Here it must be around 9:20 before it's safe
[17:31] <Cryterion> It's off here
[17:31] <Kilos> oh my, i thought they stop shedding at 10pm
[17:31] <Cryterion> 1:30 so far
[17:31] <Kilos> eish Cryterion  
[17:32] <Cryterion> should be back in at 8, hopefully lol
[17:32] <Kilos> ya i thought the latest shed was 8pm to 10pm
[17:33] <Kilos> but sometimes they anything up to 15 mins off either way
[17:33] <Cryterion> I get that timeslot sunday nights :(
[17:33] <Kilos> if mine goes off at 8 i go sleep
[17:34] <Cryterion> I fatten my laptop battery then
[17:34] <Cryterion> flatten*
[17:34] <Kilos> lol
[17:34] <Kilos> how long do they last?
[17:35] <Kilos> im trying to get one from ian but battery stuffed and not being cheap i wont buy one if it cant do a few hours at least
[17:38] <mazal> I actually want to move over to only using laptop
[17:38] <mazal> Here at us it goes off at anytime , they never stick to schedules
[17:39] <mazal> Amazing that I haven't lost data ot got damaged OS yet
[17:39]  * Cryterion-- needs to get that generator he's saved for
[17:40]  * Cryterion-- waits for  ping timeout. grr
[17:41] <Kilos> tell me man, how long just a lappy battery last from full
[17:41] <Cryterion--> mine 1:30
[17:42] <mazal> Kilos, depends what you do
[17:42] <Kilos> eish
[17:42] <mazal> How hard the cpu is working , you have usb device plugged in , dvd-rom working etc.
[17:42] <Cryterion--> 30mins of hdd and cdr are running full time
[17:43] <Kilos> i would just use it for irc and pidgin
[17:43] <Cryterion--> 2hrs if new
[17:43] <Kilos> and maybe a couple of wiki pages
[17:43] <Kilos> eish is that all
[17:43] <Cryterion--> dim the display for extra
[17:44] <Cryterion--> std is about 2hrs
[17:44] <Kilos> thats sad
[17:44] <mazal> Ok , I go mine for uranium while my power is on :P
[17:44] <Kilos> i was hoping for 4 or 5 hours
[17:44] <Kilos> lol mazal  enjoy
[17:44] <Cryterion--> get extra batteries then
[17:44] <Kilos> below 25
[17:45] <Cryterion--> below 200 now
[17:46] <Kilos> i cant do all that again from scratch
[17:46] <mazal> oho
[17:46] <Kilos> my main mine was 3k or 5 k down, i forget
[17:46] <mazal> Cryterion , server crashed again
[17:46] <mazal> And all I did was started mining
[17:46] <mazal> Same area that I was in before though
[17:47] <Cryterion--> will look just now. laptop flat and on phone atm
[17:48] <Cryterion--> 10mins or so i should have power back
[17:48] <mazal> K , normal manual mining with obsidian hammer
[17:48] <mazal> Before I started I check in chest what is there , but took nothing out and closed it
[17:48] <Kilos> eish no lazer or drill
[17:48] <mazal> That hammer is boss oom
[17:49] <Cryterion--> better than lazer
[17:49] <mazal> Same as mk3 drill without the hassle of charging and MUCH faster and easier to craft
[17:49] <Kilos> wow
[17:49] <Kilos> cool
[17:49] <Kilos> i liked the mark3 drill
[17:49] <Kilos> all my hard work gone
[17:50] <Cryterion--> just repair after about 500 hits
[17:50] <Kilos> 2 nuke power stations
[17:50] <Kilos> ill stick to playing freenode
[17:50] <Cryterion--> lol
[17:50] <mazal> lol
[17:51] <Kilos> i mean freecell
[17:51] <Cryterion--> we putting second online some
[17:51] <Cryterion--> freecell :)
[17:51] <mazal> It's as if this server knows I am 2gig overspend on my data and don't want me to play :(
[17:52] <Cryterion--> intellegent servers come from south africa ;)
[17:52] <mazal> But let me not get started on the updates thing again :P
[17:52] <mazal> I rather go take SB
[17:53] <Cryterion--> ve got a nice update coming soon
[17:59] <mazal> Cryterion--, it was " being onnoyed by updates night " here for me the whole evening
[17:59] <mazal> Then oom Kilos insulted my poor PS3's OS
[17:59] <mazal> And then said I have to many toys :)
[17:59] <Kilos> i was hoping for something like this
[17:59] <Kilos> http://blog.laptopmag.com/all-day-strong-longest-lasting-notebooks
[18:00] <Cryterion--> lol
[18:00] <Kilos> i dont know ps3's or xboxes
[18:00] <mazal> And he doesn't even know about the 3rd PS3 I also have
[18:00] <mazal> lol
[18:00] <Kilos> wow 3
[18:00] <mazal> Technically 4
[18:00] <Kilos> thats why you sukkel
[18:00] <mazal> But 1 is broken :P
[18:00] <Kilos> attention devided
[18:00] <mazal> issie
[18:00] <Cryterion--> my son has a ps3. never played on it myself
[18:01] <Kilos> what is broken
[18:01] <mazal> The 4th PS3
[18:01] <Kilos> what man
[18:01] <mazal> The blue-ray eye
[18:01] <Kilos> cant they do anything without that
[18:03] <mazal> Yeah , but too expensive , not worth it
[18:03] <Kilos> must it have blueray
[18:03] <mazal> Oh and I have 2 racing wheels for them. And a gaming pc and a Ubuntu pc
[18:03] <Kilos> lol
[18:03] <mazal> And it's not toys , it's entertainment
[18:04] <Kilos> toys are us you sound like
[18:04] <Cryterion--> finally eishkom back
[18:04] <Kilos> yay
[18:04] <mazal> And I had 2 xboxes
[18:04] <Kilos> wow
[18:04] <mazal> Technically 3
[18:04] <mazal> 1 Broken
[18:04] <Kilos> you earn too much
[18:05] <MaNI> whew, thought the lights were gone for good this time
[18:05] <mazal> No I just have lots of credit card dept
[18:05] <Kilos> lol
[18:05] <mazal> Sold the other 2 quickly , cos they don't last
[18:06] <mazal> So when it's updates night here things gets , well , "busy"
[18:06] <mazal> And it's simply amazing how everything gets updates always on the same day
[18:06] <mazal> Strange how that works
[18:07] <rusbus> funny how nature do dat
[18:07] <mazal> I see my graphics drivers ALSO needs an update
[18:07] <mazal> The only things in here that didn't want to update tonight is the TV
[18:09] <Kilos> whew those blue ray things are 900 bucks
[18:09] <mazal> They qouted me R1500 rand oom
[18:10] <mazal> And the machine is 6+ years old so said no thanx
[18:10] <Kilos> oh arent they the same as those for pcs
[18:10] <mazal> No use spending that and 3 months donw the line it YLOD's
[18:11] <mazal> In red zone here now
[18:11] <mazal> Power might go , or might not go
[18:12] <Cryterion> 90 to 10 chance
[18:20] <MaNI> ours went, then came, then went again 
[18:20] <MaNI> thrilling stuff
[18:21] <MaNI> don't think the substations and transformers like this outage business at all not what they were designed for
[18:23] <inetpro> guten abend
[18:24] <Kilos> hi inetpro  
[18:24] <inetpro> oom Kilos no, I have power
[18:24] <inetpro> oops... yes, I have power
[18:24] <Kilos> lol
[18:25] <inetpro> it's only Sundays and Tuesdays where they knowck me off the grid in the evening
[18:25] <inetpro> knock* 
[18:25] <inetpro> IIRC at least
[18:25] <Kilos> ai! why didnt they make it wednesday
[18:26] <inetpro> good question
[18:27] <inetpro> uh, was that a question even?
[18:27] <Kilos> speak to them man
[18:27] <Kilos> i cant do everything
[18:27] <inetpro> ai!
[18:27] <Kilos> do they do all the power cuts from pcs?
[18:28] <Kilos> if so hack it and change days
[18:28] <inetpro> Kilos: what did you want to tell me about elacheche's luna?
[18:28] <MaNI> apparently its manual
[18:28] <Kilos> that we know here 
[18:29] <Kilos> her on the council
[18:29] <inetpro> Kilos: she's on the Loco Council
[18:29] <Kilos> she is his boss hehe
[18:29] <inetpro> not the CC
[18:29] <Kilos> oh my now i gotta start looking again
[18:29] <inetpro> Kilos: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-lococouncil/+members#active
[18:30] <Kilos> aha
[18:32] <inetpro> what do they do even?
[18:33] <Kilos> vote in board members hehe
[18:34] <inetpro> hmm...
[18:34] <inetpro> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil
[18:34] <inetpro> looks like that page needs some updating
[18:39] <Kilos> ya only stuff where cheche is involved is kept up to date
[18:39] <Kilos> other peeps dont have time
[18:45] <Kilos> inetpro  can QA do the minutes thing yet?
[18:45] <Kilos> just checking
[18:45] <inetpro> Kilos: no
[18:45] <inetpro> but I can work on it
[18:45] <Kilos> still no rush
[18:46] <Kilos> i spose i could even get meetingology there
[19:03] <Kilos> what did you break sticky
[19:04] <Kilos> stickyboy  as well
[19:05] <mazal> Night everyone
[19:05] <mazal> Sleep well
[19:23] <Kilos> you take over
[19:23] <Kilos> i dont know the other stuffs
[19:25] <Kilos> inetpro  ^^
[19:25] <Kilos> ai!
[19:25] <inetpro> huh?
[20:01] <inetpro> good night everyone
[20:01] <Kilos> night inetpro  
[20:01] <Kilos> sleep tight , ty for the hard work
[20:02] <Kilos> such a quiet night here
[20:02] <inetpro> playing minetest is harder work
[20:02] <Kilos> lol
[20:08] <Kilos> night all. sleep tight
[22:01] <smile> Slaapwel :)