[07:03] <diplo> Morning all
[07:25] <MooDoo> morning
[08:02] <popey> morning
[08:03] <bashrc> g'day
[08:09] <TheGeek> mornin
[08:09] <popey> yo
[08:10] <TheGeek> hoho
[08:11] <mjayk> good morning
[08:11] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:54] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Peanut Butter Cookie Day! 😃
[08:59] <popey> oooh
[08:59] <popey> i bought some peanut butter yesterday. I do believe it's peanute butter and banana sandwich day
[09:00] <JamesTait> Food of kings.
[09:26] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:32] <bashrc> morning
[09:32] <brobostigon> morning bashrc
[09:32] <mapps> morninghm
[09:33] <brobostigon> morning mapps
[09:33] <mapps> was at the casino went to go home
[09:33] <mapps> got a pack of cigs out my bag and a drink
[09:33] <mapps> and wow
[09:34] <mapps> #you have drink he knows the deal'
[09:34] <mapps> nope..im just an alcoholic so i ad it with me
[09:38] <brobostigon> something is really wrong with bt today, i am getting over 90% packet loss to my vps's, however is working form my phone.
[09:39] <mapps> i havw bt and virgin:P
[09:42] <brobostigon> ok,
[09:58] <popey> level 3 are down apparently
[09:58] <brobostigon> level 3?
[09:59] <popey> yes, level 3
[09:59] <brobostigon> what does it mean?
[10:00] <popey> they provide internet backbone
[10:00] <popey> maybe fixed now
[10:00] <Laney> I haven't noticed any problems
[10:00] <Laney> guess I am level 3 free
[10:00] <brobostigon> ah i see.
[10:01] <davmor2> as some of you may have noticed, the Internet at large is seeing some "bad weather" right now.  This should resolve shortly as the major network carriers route around the problem
[10:02] <Laney> I see what you did there
[10:02] <Laney> :)
[10:03] <davmor2> brobostigon: that was Internet Services announcement on the problems :)
[10:04] <brobostigon> davmor2: ok, ty.
[10:07] <brobostigon> the pebble forums seem to work fine.
[10:07]  * popey wonders when his Pebble will arrive
[10:07] <davmor2> popey: when you going out next?  I bet it arrives then
[10:08] <popey> not shipped yet
[10:08] <popey> so unlikely :)
[10:08] <davmor2> popey: so when you go out next after it ships :)
[10:08] <mapps> ;time for russian learning
[10:08] <mapps> ;D
[10:08] <popey> probably
[10:09] <mapps> im spending 10hrs a wek learning laguages
[10:09] <mapps> no popey i meant im tryin to learn
[10:09] <mapps> trying to lean spanish and russian
[10:09] <davmor2> mapps: you trying to out do Christopher Lee?
[10:09]  * brobostigon tests to see what work and what doesnt.
[10:10] <davmor2> brobostigon: looking at this most things should be up again now ish
[10:10] <brobostigon> davmor2: ok, ty.
[10:10] <mapps> lol
[10:11] <mapps> nah davmor2
[10:11] <mapps> im just a simle southener like popey
[10:11] <mapps> i speakk eng/fenchgeman/arbic
[10:11] <mapps> so i figure spanish can help
[10:13] <davmor2> mapps: he was born in London so now you have no excuse :P
[10:16] <mapps> im gibraltaian mate]
[10:16] <mapps> no idea what london is
[10:16] <mapps> ;)
[10:23] <popey> I'd quite like to learn mandarin
[10:23] <bujji> how to find load average ...of a syatem
[10:23] <popey> top
[10:23] <brobostigon> uptime
[10:24] <davmor2> htop
[10:24] <bujji> load average like 0.05 0.12  0.66 what does this mean
[10:24] <bujji> tload
[10:24] <bujji> w
[10:24] <davmor2> bujji: http://blog.scoutapp.com/articles/2009/07/31/understanding-load-averages
[10:35] <popey> lulz https://twitter.com/TMCorp/status/609167065300271104
[10:39] <bujji> davmor2:how it will calculate for 1 minute 0.05
[10:41] <davmor2> popey: just as  well he wasn't on a mountain doing that ;)
[10:41] <davmor2> bujji: read the article if that doesn't tell you have a search on google there is bound to be an article some where that will give you a lot more info. that was just the first I hit on a google search
[10:42] <bujji> davmor2:is it based on calculating how many processors running on the system
[10:43] <bujji> process*
[10:44] <popey> bujji: no, it's how many processes on average are in the queue for a processor.
[10:44] <popey> (put simply)
[10:44] <popey> if you start 20 long running processes and you have 1 cpu, 1 core, then the number will climb very quickly until those jobs complete
[10:44] <popey> if you have 20 cpus (20 cores) then there will be (more or less) one job per core, so the number won't rise.
[10:45] <popey> it's a measure of how busy the box is.
[10:45] <bujji> how can i count processes running on my sysytem
[10:46] <intrbiz> bujji: ps
[10:46] <intrbiz> bujji: best results: ps aux
[10:46] <popey> top tells you
[10:46] <popey> Tasks: 312 total,   2 running, 309 sleeping,   0 stopped,   1 zombie
[10:47] <popey> some will be idle
[10:47] <davmor2> popey: kill the zombie
[10:47] <popey> or "sleeping"
[10:47] <intrbiz> can't kill a zombie
[10:47] <bujji> thats good..
[10:47] <davmor2> popey: it will try to eat your brainz
[10:47] <popey> its eating the cpu
[10:47] <popey> sd_cicero
[10:47] <popey> well, it was
[10:47] <bujji> 309 sleeping...how it will calculat for one minute..
[10:48] <popey> calculate what?
[10:48] <popey> thats realtime, what's happening right now
[10:48] <popey> load average is averged over 1, 5 and 15 minutes
[10:49] <bujji> for one minute and 5 minute the load avg will be calculated right..
[10:49] <popey> it's calculated, yes.
[10:49] <bujji> how it will calculate i am asking..
[10:49] <popey> dunno, look at the source code
[10:49] <intrbiz> load average is exponetntially weighted moving averages for 1 minute, 5 minute and 15 minute
[10:50] <intrbiz> as such the 15 and 5 minute values decay slower
[10:50] <bujji> that i got it.
[10:50] <davmor2> bujji: http://www.howtogeek.com/194642/understanding-the-load-average-on-linux-and-other-unix-like-systems/
[10:51] <intrbiz> bujji: load average is really not worth worrying about unless la > # cpus
[10:51] <intrbiz> ie on a 2 cpu system, a 5 minute load average of 2 mean your maxing out both cpus for 5 minutes
[10:52] <davmor2> bujji: and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_(computing)
[10:52] <intrbiz> a load average of 10 for 5 minutes effectively means your need 10 cpus to handle the load for that time period
[10:52] <popey> also the load average isn't a good measure when you can turn CPUs on and off at will, so the maths gets a little fuzzed
[10:54] <bujji> then what is good measure..
[10:54] <intrbiz> lno such thing as one good metric
[10:54] <intrbiz> s/lno/no/
[10:54] <bashrc> temperature of the server?
[10:54] <intrbiz> a good person considers a range of metrics, as they measure different things
[10:55] <bujji> i will come to know this again..))
[10:55] <bujji> intrbiz:i will let you know
[10:56] <bujji> bye for now))
[13:10] <popey> https://www.yahoo.com/parenting/the-type-of-parents-most-likely-to-have-a-child-121212598657.html
[13:10] <popey> interesting!
[13:13] <foobarry> are direct messages between 2 freenoders logged ? or possible to log on the server?
[13:15] <awilkins> foobarry, Reading it, you need DCC CHAT for actually private messages
[13:15] <awilkins> I think just normal /msg does go through server
[13:15] <awilkins> As to whether it's logged, I don't know freenode's config / policy on that
[13:16] <popey> ask Dave
[13:48] <popey> Apparently D ave is in a field somewhere and so cannot respond.
[13:49] <popey> Isn't that right Dave ?
[13:49] <popey> foobarry: dave says "no"
[13:49] <foobarry> really? thnaks
[13:50] <foobarry> i had concerns about private chats when both ircers are on the same irc node
[13:50] <foobarry> node/server
[13:50] <popey> he said they don't log anything like that
[13:50] <foobarry> and can't?
[13:50] <popey> can't what?
[13:51] <foobarry> its technically possible i guess
[13:51] <foobarry> if i was on a ircnet server
[13:51] <popey> if the server was compromised, and someone ran tcpdump, maybe
[13:52] <foobarry> ok thanks
[13:52] <popey> np
[13:52] <foobarry> thats outside the scope of my concerns
[13:52] <popey> Thanks Dave :)
[13:52] <foobarry> Dave is awesome
[14:07] <shauno> this conversation reads like Dave is popey's imaginary friend o_O
[14:09] <davmor2> I'm here
[14:14] <awilkins> Are you doing science, and you're still alive?
[14:15] <popey> heh
[14:19] <bashrc> science!
[14:28] <popey> Telegram!
[14:29] <bashrc> I've not used Telegram. I think it's some Russian thing with a centralised server
[14:31] <popey> The guy who started it is indeed Russian
[14:31] <popey> I don't think that makes it a Russian Thing
[14:31] <bashrc> https://telegram.org/faq#q-can-i-run-telegram-using-my-own-server
[14:34] <bashrc> over HTTP. That might make it a little more resistant to blocking
[14:34] <jpds> bashrc: Based in Berlin.
[14:35] <bashrc> with E2EE, apparently
[14:38] <davmor2> bashrc: it can have you can also have messages that self destruct too
[14:38] <awilkins> No such thing as a self-destructing message
[14:38] <davmor2> bashrc: that wipes it from yours, the recipient and the server
[14:38] <awilkins> There's messages the app will destroy
[14:38] <awilkins> But it's an open protocol
[14:38] <awilkins> That means you can write a client that doesn't respect the self-destructing
[14:39] <davmor2> telegram for the win
[14:39] <bashrc> yes, it would be difficult to self-destruct a message, but it maybe could exist in the system for some amount of time before deletion - similar to Bitmessage
[14:40] <awilkins> One way you could do it is post a message encrypted with a key that is only available online that your client obtains live to read it
[14:40] <awilkins> But again, nothing stops a modified client retaining the key, or the plaintext
[14:40] <bashrc> yes
[14:40] <awilkins> It's the DRM problem - once you provide the client with the key and the content, nothing stops them using it however they want
[14:41] <awilkins> (eventually)
[14:42] <zmoylan-pi> it's the same problem that people had back in the days of actual telegrams where people used personal codes as there was no way to ensure security of the communication links
[17:10] <awilkins> re: telegram : http://security.stackexchange.com/questions/49782/is-telegram-secure
[17:20] <shauno> I thought someone found a few months ago, that it was leaving decrypted convos on disk after they'd been deleted
[17:25] <shauno> http://blog.zimperium.com/telegram-hack/
[17:27] <shauno> it has a cache where they're unencrypted at rest, even after they've been "self-destructed".  and since the primary threat on a mobile is losing the damned thing, "at rest" is a pretty dodgy hole
[17:53] <sebsebsebb> hello
[18:58] <bujji> does sym link and hard link takes memory on hard disk?
[19:00] <daftykins> mere bytes i should think
[19:04] <bujji> ?
[19:04] <bujji> hardlink i node number is same right
[19:12] <bujji> daftykins:symlink does not taking memory
[19:12] <bujji> hardlink does
[19:13] <daftykins> makes sense
[19:13] <daftykins> hard link means 'copy the file here too but link it to the original for changes' right?
[19:16] <bujji> here why we need of creating hard link files.....in real way ????
[19:18] <bujji> daftykins:rc3.d directory contains sym link files...thats ok
[19:19] <daftykins> sorry can't understand you at all.
[19:19] <bujji> runlevel 3 directory conatains sym link files...
[19:20] <daftykins> that's a statement not a question
[19:20] <daftykins> and i'm the wrong person to ask :)
[19:22] <bujji> usecase ok for sym links over there..
[19:23] <bujji> why we need creating hard link here..?
[19:24] <daftykins> too busy to look things up for you i'm afraid
[19:24] <daftykins> and the language barrier is still an issue
[19:25] <bujji> are you understanding my question..
[19:27] <daftykins> no, but as i say i'm too busy anyway :)
[19:28] <bujji> take your time))
[19:29] <daftykins> no i can't help you :)
[19:30] <bujji> let expect from others.
[19:30] <shauno> hardlinks are a whole different kettle of interesting.  symlinks are like shortcuts.  hardlinks are .. weird
[19:31] <daftykins> we would probably need to know the task at hand to know which makes more sense
[19:31] <daftykins> http://bit.ly/1L3ntX4
[19:31] <daftykins> bah, £75 difference between two Lenovo X1 Carbons
[19:31] <bujji> shauno:use case of hardlink))
[19:31] <daftykins> cheaper one has a 1080p screen but it's TN... dearer one has a WQHD (2560x1440) but drops to an i5
[19:32] <shauno> hardlinks are interesting because they're all equal.  if you create a symlink to a file, and then delete the file, the symlink is now useless
[19:32] <shauno> with hardlinks, if you link to a file, and then delete the original, the hardlink you created still points to the file
[19:33] <intrbiz> hardlinks are multiple names to the inode, so would likely take space in the dentry
[19:34] <bujji> intrbiz:inode number for this same for hard link but taking memory i am not understanding here use case
[19:35] <bujji> intrbiz:hardlink both acts like a original files
[19:35] <intrbiz> bujji: what do you mean 'taking memory' ?
[19:35] <bujji> du
[19:36] <intrbiz> bujji: inode tracks the extends of a file, a hard link, maps multiple names to an inode, it does not duplicate the inode nor the extents
[19:36] <intrbiz> s/extends/extents/
[19:37] <bujji> intrbiz:inode is same right
[19:38] <intrbiz> bujji: ?
[19:39] <bujji> intrbiz:inode is same for hd link
[19:39] <intrbiz> bujji: yes, as I said, a 'hard link' is just mutliple names pointing to a file
[19:39] <intrbiz> bujji: the name of a file is not part of the inode
[19:41] <bujji> but if we delete original it still there right.
[19:41] <intrbiz> bujji: when you delete a hard link, the link count of the inode is decremented, when it reaches zero (IE: nothing points to the inode) it will be removed from disk
[19:42] <intrbiz> bujji: so if you have a hard link to a file, and you remove either the hard link or the file, the data will still remain
[19:43] <intrbiz> bujji: why all the questions on symbolic / hard links?
[19:43] <bujji> how to delete hard link..?
[19:43] <shauno> the same way as any other file.  it's literally the same thing.  this is why the OS actually calls delete 'unlink'
[19:44] <bujji> intrbiz:run level directories contains sym link files..
[19:45] <intrbiz> bujji: yes, sym links make more sense for that use case
[19:45] <bujji> intrbiz:these are pointing to the /etc/init.d services
[19:45] <intrbiz> bujji: on old distros yes
[19:45] <bujji> intrbiz:yes,right
[19:46] <bujji> intrbiz:in the same way hard link use case why wwe need that one
[19:47] <intrbiz> bujji: hard links are useful in certain situations, for example not wanting the traversal overhead of a symlink and to avoid issues where with a symlink the target can be deleted leaving a dead link
[19:48] <bujji> intrbiz:not getting
[19:50] <shauno> time machine is actually an interesting use of hardlinks
[19:50] <intrbiz> pg_upgrade uses hardlinks too
[19:50] <shauno> I know y'all meant to hate macs and stuff, but this is all pretty generic to just unix
[19:51] <shauno> each time it makes a backup, it puts the backup in a timestamp'd folder.  (think, /backups/2015-06-12-2051)
[19:51] <intrbiz> rsnapshot also makes use of hardlinks
[19:51] <shauno> then for each file that's unchanged, it hardlinks it to the previous version
[19:52] <shauno> this way each backup is 'complete', but you don't actually have 10 copies of the same file on disk
[19:53] <shauno> you have 10 copies of the filename, but they're all using the same actual inodes on disk, so they don't consume 10x the space
[19:54] <shauno> yeah, I think it's quite similar to rsnapshot.  time machine as a backup mechanism isn't very fancy at all.  the actual 'features' are how well it's integrated into the rescue process; and that they've made it so simple even my mother has no excuses
[19:55] <intrbiz> opensuse integrates btrfs based snapshot really well into the boot process now
[19:56] <intrbiz> can just select an older copy of the system to run from grub
[19:56] <bujji> hardlinks are not applicable for directories right..
[19:56] <shauno> right, a directory doesn't actually 'exist'
[19:56] <intrbiz> bujji: nope
[19:57] <intrbiz> bujji: a directory and a file, are merely names
[19:57] <bujji> when i execute it is saying that
[19:57] <shauno> the filesystem is made up of two almost unconnected systems
[19:57] <intrbiz> directories and files are dentrys, the contents of a file are inodes
[19:58] <shauno> one is actually storing data; this is just inodes tracking where the contents of a file actually live on disk
[19:58] <shauno> and then you have the actual organization of sticking names, permissions, directories, namespaces, etc so you can find these inodes
[20:02] <bujji> ls -id . and cd <dir name> ls -id  .. is having same inode number..?
[20:03] <bujji> here the hard link applicable for directories ...?
[20:03] <intrbiz> bujji: hard links are not applicable to directories
[20:04] <bujji> intrbiz:. and .. are directories right
[20:05] <intrbiz> bujji: they aren't real directories, '.' just means the current directory and '..' parent directory
[20:06] <bujji> those are existing right..
[20:06] <bujji> intrbiz:cd .. in the sense going to parent directory right.
[20:07] <intrbiz> bujji: cd = change directory , .. = parent directory
[20:09] <bujji> cd / nad type; ls -id . and then cd opt:and type; ls -id .. both are having same inode number..
[20:11] <intrbiz> bujji: of course they will
[20:11] <intrbiz> bujji: /. = / and /opt/.. = /
[20:12] <bujji> intrbiz:that doesnt mean hard applied for that
[20:12] <intrbiz> bujji: no
[20:12] <bujji> hard link
[20:13] <intrbiz> bujji: . and .. are not real, they do not physically exist, they are a presentation for navigation
[20:15] <bujji> intrbiz:if i try to delete that one saying can not remove directory.
[20:16] <bujji> intrbiz:that doesnt mean hard coded..
[20:16] <shauno> which one?
[20:16] <bujji> . nad ..
[20:16] <bujji> and*
[20:19] <intrbiz> bujji: what are you actually asking?
[20:21] <bujji> . and .. is having same inode number that means hard applied over there.
[20:24] <intrbiz> bujji: no
[20:26] <shauno> hm, directories do appear to have inode numbers.  that's completely not how I understood it  lol
[20:26] <shauno> bujji: I'm not sure this will help, but you might want to look at 'stat' instead of trying to remember all ls's flags :)
[20:26] <bujji> intrbiz:then how it can be linked...is that soft link(no) because inode is same
[20:27] <intrbiz> bujji: its not a link, '.' and '..' do not exist
[20:28] <bujji> intrbiz:we are changing from directory to directory right
[20:28] <intrbiz> bujji: ?
[20:29] <shauno> bujji: what he means is that . and .. don't actually exist
[20:29] <shauno> like, / is a directory, /tmp is a directory.  /tmp/. isn't a directory, it just *means* /tmp
[20:29] <shauno> and /tmp/.. isn't a directory, it just means /
[20:29] <bujji> intrbiz:like...cd /etc/init.d here etc and init.d have some link?
[20:30] <shauno> it's like, today and yesterday aren't on the calendar.  the 11th and 12th are.  'today' and 'yesterday' are just convenient ways we can reference them
[20:31] <shauno> the same way, . and .. aren't actually on the filesystem
[20:32] <bujji> shauno:past u have some actions and present you have some actions you had some link.
[20:35] <shauno> I mean they're just concepts.  they're not actually things
[20:36] <bujji> shauno:here present directory you have done some actions and parent directory have done some actions the time stamp will be change if you observe.
[20:37] <shauno> right, say I'm in /tmp
[20:37] <shauno> and I touch a file named 'something'
[20:37] <bujji> okey
[20:37] <shauno> the timestamp on /tmp has changed.  you can see this with '.' because '.' just means 'here'
[20:38] <shauno> . hasn't actually changed.  . doesn't actually exist.  but if I look at . I see /tmp
[20:38] <bujji> cd .. and see current directory.
[20:40] <bujji> shauno:got it?
[20:41] <shauno> heh, I've had it for almost 20 years.  I apparently just have no idea how to clearly explain it :)
[20:43] <bujji> can you recollect))
[20:44] <intrbiz> bujji: the path '/home/test/..' actually means '/home/'
[20:44] <intrbiz> bujji: the path '/home/test/.' actually means '/home/test/'
[20:46] <intrbiz> bujji: the . and .. are used to represent here and parent respectively, the are dealt with when canonicallising the path
[20:47] <bujji> intrbiz:absolute path
[20:48] <intrbiz> bujji: statements != questions
[20:49] <bujji> intrbiz:for example chain link...that does have a link between one after the other right..like /home/test/
[20:50] <bujji> intrbiz:if we delete "test" there is no link with that.
[20:50] <intrbiz> bujji: . and .. are not links
[20:51] <intrbiz> if I remove June 12th from the calendar, the concepts today and tomorrow still exist
[20:52] <bujji> intrbiz:can you tell me why hard links are not applicable for directories.
[20:52] <intrbiz> bujji: . and .. are just concepts
[20:53] <bujji> intrbiz:you are removing there 12th actions
[20:53] <intrbiz> bujji: directories and files are both merely names.  they exist in a heirarchial tree structure.  internally these names are stored as a dentry structure
[20:54] <intrbiz> bujji: an inode structure is used to track disk blocks used to store stuff
[20:54] <intrbiz> bujji: a link maps a dentry to an inode
[20:54] <bujji> intrbiz:yes
[20:55] <bujji> can you tell me why hard links are not applicable for directories.
[20:57] <intrbiz> bujji: because directories are merely an entry in the tree, if you allowed directory hard links, then all sorts of chaos could ensue, such as circular references, etc
[20:57] <intrbiz> note the inode of a directory merely tracks the disk blocks used to store the dentry structures
[20:58] <intrbiz> bujji: another issue with hard links for directories would be having multiple parents
[20:59] <bujji> intrbiz:yes you come to the point now..got it
[21:00] <bujji> intrbiz:here in linux file system is having single parent right.
[21:01] <bujji> intrbiz:/
[21:02] <intrbiz> bujji: / is the Virtual File System (VFS) root yes
[21:02] <bujji> intrbiz:here you have diff sub directories
[21:03] <bujji> intrbiz:each and every directory reffered to the parent directory right.
[21:04] <intrbiz> bujji: a child knows its parent
[21:04] <bujji> intrbiz:yes,there is a link?
[21:07] <intrbiz> bujji: the dentry structure has a pointer to the parent dentry
[21:08] <bujji> intrbiz:how it can be able  point?
[21:08] <intrbiz> bujji: by pointer I mean C pointer
[21:10] <bujji> which points to the address of another..
[21:12] <bujji> intrbiz:if we allow h link... issue with hard links for directories would be having multiple parents here i got the point thanks
[21:14] <bujji> intrbiz:unclear for . and ..(because of having same i node number)i thought here hard link applied
[21:15] <bujji> intrbiz:its not allowing me to delete . and .. why so?
[21:15] <intrbiz> bujji: what directory are you in?
[21:15] <shauno> if I start crying, please promise not to tell anyone ;)
[21:16] <intrbiz> ok
[21:17] <bujji> intrbiz:/home/bujji
[21:17] <bujji> shauno:?
[21:18] <intrbiz> bujji: so . would mean remove '/home/bujji' and .. would mean '/home'
[21:19] <intrbiz> bujji: you'd only be able to remove them if they are empty
[21:19] <bujji> intrbiz:let me try if they empty
[21:20] <intrbiz> bujji: but as we've said, '.' and '..' mean here and parent. if you do rmdir on . or rmdir on .. then you remove the directories that represent that
[21:23] <bujji> intrbiz:not working if i used if they empty "rm -rf ."
[21:23] <intrbiz> bujji: note no same person would do 'rmdir .' or 'rmdir ..'
[21:24] <intrbiz> s/same/sane/
[21:25] <bujji> intrbiz:it saying that "cant remove directory"
[21:27] <bujji> intrbiz:that does mean
[21:28] <intrbiz> bujji: if you look at the manpage for rmdir (2), it states that the path cannot end in '.' and will produce invalid error if it does
[21:31] <bujji> intrbiz:yes,if i use "rmdir ." but i used "rm -rf ." it is saying "rm:cant remove directory"
[21:32] <intrbiz> bujji: it looks like rm will refuse to remove . and ..
[21:33] <bujji> intrbiz:yes?
[21:33] <intrbiz> bujji: yes
[21:34] <bujji> intrbiz:why?
[21:35] <intrbiz> bujji: because . and .. and real, so it makes no sense to ask to remove them, so the command ignores the request
[21:37] <bujji> intrbiz:rm by default doesnot allow to remove directories.
[21:38] <intrbiz> bujji: if you want to remove directories with 'rm' you need to use recursive '-r'
[21:39] <bujji> intrbiz:same thing
[21:41] <bujji> intrbiz:can you give me use case in applying hard link on files.
[21:41] <intrbiz> bujji: we listed a few earlier, i'm not listing them again
[21:47] <bujji> intrbiz:can you give me example hard link files in system uses.
[21:50] <bujji> intrbiz:dfault hard link files in linux machine.
[21:50] <intrbiz> bujji: not sure of any default uses, hard links are usually sparingly used
[21:52] <bujji> intrbiz:like sym links there in /etc/rc3.d/?
[21:52] <intrbiz> ?
[21:52] <intrbiz> bujji: sym links are alot more common than hard links
[21:54] <bujji> intrbiz:use case only i can able to get the point.
[21:56] <bujji> intrbiz:thanks man you make me clear some points.
[21:59] <bujji> intrbiz:i got understand that hard link not applicable for directories because ( issue with hard links for directories would be having multiple parents) right
[22:00] <intrbiz> one of the reasons yes
[22:01] <bujji> intrbiz:and circular references.
[22:03] <bujji> intrbiz:thanks for your time man bye:)))
[22:41] <ball> Are "Unity Web apps" intended for Ubuntu on a phone?
[22:46] <ging> i have an ubuntu server which at the end of booting tty1 just hangs never gets to the login prompt, i can't find any errors and eveyrthing else works, except tty1, anyone have an ideas on what might cause this or where to look?
[22:46] <ball> Is tty1 an actual serial port or a virtual console on the monitor and keyboard?
[22:47] <ging> well it's a vm
[22:47] <ball> What hypervisor?
[22:47] <ging> kvm
[22:47] <ball> Ah. I've never used that. No idea how it works.
[22:48] <ging> i think it emulates a vga monitor, or atleast the way i have it setup
[22:48] <ging> i can switch to any other tty and they are fine
[22:49] <ball> That's a curious choice.
[22:49] <ging> it is so you can connect to it via vnc
[22:49] <ball> VNC doesn't require a monitor.
[22:50] <ball> (at least at the server end)
[22:51] <ball> ...are you saying that it uses VNC to simulate a VGA monitor?
[22:51] <ball> (and adaptor)
[22:53] <ging> yeah pretty much
[22:53] <ball> Wierd.
[22:53] <ging> it has a vga adaptor a a pci device
[22:54] <ball> I suppose it made sense to someone.
[22:54] <ging> seems to be the default way or atleast using virt manager
[22:54] <ball> Is that really a KVM thing or just something that you've chosen to do in the vm?
[22:54] <ball> That's pretty "out there".
[22:56] <ging> i think vmware and virutal box are usally setup similarly
[22:56] <daftykins> does dmesg or the boot log shed any light?
[22:56] <ball> VMware isn't.
[22:57] <ball> I haven't seen Virtual Box in years.
[22:57] <daftykins> never found it performs the same as vmware personally
[22:57] <ging> daftykins: not really, i have an identical server and the logs look the same until the point that this one just stops
[22:58] <ging> the stuff before it stops gives no reall clue
[22:58] <ball> ging: Is this after you've installed the guest OS?
[22:58] <ball> ging: Does the OS you're installing have a text install option?
[22:59] <daftykins> version and kernel version?
[22:59] <ging> ball: yes it's ubuntu server 14.04
[22:59] <ball> ging: Did you try the text install?
[23:00] <ging> Ubuntu 14.04.2 LTS (GNU/Linux 3.13.0-53-generic x86_64)
[23:01] <ging> ball: i am not having a problem installing it, my problem is with how it boots
[23:01] <daftykins> is the one that works identical?
[23:01] <daftykins> ging: there's a -54 kernel now so #1 i'd update at least
[23:03] <ball> ging: fwiw the first time I tried Ubuntu Server I was disgusted that it used a graphical splash screen. I've mostly got over that but I wouldn't be surprised if it caused issues in some environments.
[23:03] <ball> ging: I just put it down to me being an old fart.
[23:04] <daftykins> plymouth on a server is indeed pants-on-head retarded
[23:04] <ball> What is "plymouth"?
[23:04] <ging> yeah what is plymouth that may be the issue
[23:05] <ging> it repeatedly spawns on the one with the issue
[23:05] <daftykins> is your VM on solid state storage?
[23:05] <ging> init: plymouth-upstart-bridge main process (200) terminated with status 1
[23:05] <daftykins> no that's not related
[23:05] <ging> no it's on a ceph cluster
[23:06] <daftykins> i don't have a clue what that is :)
[23:06] <ging> it's an rbd storage cluster
[23:06] <ball> What is "ceph"?
[23:07] <ball> Linux is strange.
[23:07] <daftykins> ok well on fast storage you tend to see the above error due to a timing issue, there are plenty of blog posts around online about tweaking a config to stop it thinking something is broken
[23:07] <ball> Still, it works well enough on my daughter's PC.
[23:08] <daftykins> if one doesn't ask too much of things they can often seem great :)
[23:12] <ging> daftykins: they are almost exactly the same, they are a pair, one is redundant the one with the issue, they have a keepalived script which mounts another drive and starts some services on the primary
[23:13] <ging> it is like the other one thinks it's not finnished booting because this other stuff hasn't happened, but i don't see why
[23:13] <daftykins> anywho as i say there's a newer kernel so a dist-upgrade is in order before pursuing that one further
[23:25] <ging> i think it is my config
[23:26] <ging> well not mine i didn't build it