[09:22] <cimi> greyback_, ping
[09:22] <greyback_> cimi: pong
[09:22] <cimi> greyback_, hey doc
[09:22] <cimi> greyback_, I know you answered already, I forgot :)
[09:22] <greyback_> cimi: 'sup!
[09:23] <cimi> greyback_, if I create an Image/BorderImage and I set visible to false, is it loaded by qt but not rendered?
[09:23] <cimi> or is not even loaded?
[09:24] <cimi> greyback_, adding shadows to cards in dash, wondering if I should put the shadow in a loader since for now is only for application scope
[09:24] <greyback_> cimi: it is loaded by the CPU, and pushed to GPU texture memory
[09:24] <greyback_> but is not rendered
[09:24] <greyback_> cimi: I was chatting with loicm about this
[09:24] <cimi> greyback_, so I think I will put it in a Loader
[09:24] <cimi> greyback_, yeah, I heard design wants shadows in _many_ places
[09:25] <greyback_> cimi: could you try replacing the BorderImage with 4 images surrounding the application surface?
[09:25] <cimi> greyback_, I am doing a different thing
[09:25] <greyback_> cimi: what's your thinking for your approach?
[09:25] <cimi> greyback_, I am adding shadows to cards in dash now
[09:25] <cimi> greyback_, not app spread
[09:26] <greyback_> cimi: okay. I suggest you don't do anything fancy until you have proved the standard approach is costly
[09:26] <greyback_> shadows are not costly on their own
[09:26] <greyback_> but a bunch of shadows overlapping is costly
[09:26] <cimi> greyback_, for the app spread, we want to slice and just use 3 shadows I would say, not sure we need the right edge shadow unless for the rightmost app
[09:27] <greyback_> cimi: agreed
[09:27] <greyback_> but perhaps the code complexity implementing that is worse than that right edge shadow
[09:27] <cimi> greyback_, going back to cards in dash... we want shadows under apps in app scope
[09:27] <greyback_> is something to be played with
[09:27] <greyback_> under the app icon?
[09:29] <cimi> greyback_, so far I have image & borderimage under ALL cards with visible to false, since you just told me there is CPU loading the png etc etc, I might just put those in a loader that loads only in app scope
[09:29] <cimi> yes
[09:29] <greyback_> cimi: why are you thinking of these optimisations? Have you implemented the simple solution and found it extremely slow?
[09:30] <cimi> greyback_, no
[09:30] <greyback_> we should only optimize when we identify a problem
[09:30] <cimi> greyback_, no
[09:30] <greyback_> yes
[09:30] <cimi> greyback_, we should write reasonable code at first
[09:30] <greyback_> reasonable = simple to maintain IMO
[09:31] <greyback_> optimizations introduce complexity
[09:31] <cimi> greyback_, we have hundreds of scopes, hundreds of cards, and ALL will load one image & borderimage that will never use
[09:31] <greyback_> complexity should have a good justification
[09:31] <cimi> putting the inside a stupid loader won't hurt I think
[09:31] <ltinkl> cimi, Image uses caching, so I suppose it won't hurt that much
[09:32] <cimi> ltinkl, yeah but they are not used....
[09:32] <greyback_> cimi: that's your intuition speaking though
[09:32] <greyback_> do you have evidence for this statement?
[09:32] <greyback_> qml does lots of clever things to avoid loading too much
[09:32] <ltinkl> cimi, now but chances are the image is already loaded and decoded when you create a new one with the same source
[09:32] <greyback_> we should only optimize when we have to, not because we feel we should
[09:33] <ltinkl> agree there, "don't fix what ain't broken" :)
[09:34] <ltinkl> cimi, tried to write a simple benchmark with and without a loader?
[09:34] <greyback_> you may end up writing complex code which has no benefit over the simple code
[09:34] <greyback_> I say, write the simple code first. If things end up slow, use a profiling tool to detect the most expensive things and optimize those
[09:35] <cimi> ltinkl, but it will load at least once
[09:35] <cimi> ltinkl, we can avoid this one
[09:36] <greyback_> hmm, internet wonky today
 cimi: that's your intuition speaking though
 do you have evidence for this statement?
 qml does lots of clever things to avoid loading too much
 we should only optimize when we have to, not because we feel we should
 you may end up writing complex code which has no benefit over the simple code
 I say, write the simple code first. If things end up slow, use a profiling tool to detect the most expensive things and optimize those
[09:38] <cimi> greyback_, all right doc
[12:20] <ChrisTownsend> popey: Hey, are you around?  Wanted to follow up on your unity8-lxc issue.
[12:25] <popey> ChrisTownsend: hey!
[12:25] <popey> ChrisTownsend: just grabbing a sandwich, what should I be looking for?
[12:25] <popey> (in unity, not in my sandwich)
[12:26] <ChrisTownsend> popey: lol...So I think the LXC is not starting up for some reason.  Let's start from a fresh baseline.  Could you run 'sudo unity8-lxc-setup --rebuild-all --redownload"?
[12:27] <ChrisTownsend> popey: And let's make sure that completes with no errors.  Then we'll go from there.
[12:28] <popey> ok
[12:32] <popey> ChrisTownsend: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11701731/ that look right to you?
[12:33] <ChrisTownsend> popey: Yep, looks good.
[12:33] <popey> so reboot and login to unity8?
[12:33] <popey> for a nice clean session
[12:33] <ChrisTownsend> popey: Yep, let's give it it try.  If it doesn't work, then we'll dig some more.
[12:33] <popey> ok
[12:37] <popey> ChrisTownsend: well! now I get a welcome screen, never had this before!
[12:37] <ChrisTownsend> popey: Awesome!  It works!
[12:38] <popey> my "phone" is now ready to use \o/
[12:38] <popey> thanks ChrisTownsend
[12:39] <ChrisTownsend> popey: lol, a big phone like 1995.
[12:39] <ChrisTownsend> popey: Sure thing!
[12:39] <popey> i suspect it was down to that upstart install
[12:40] <ChrisTownsend> popey: Yes, I had to add some workarounds pretty recently in getting upstart into the container.  It simply does not like systemd right now.
[12:40] <popey> yeah, phone is upstart for user session
[12:40] <ChrisTownsend> popey: This is upstart for the system.
[12:41] <popey> oh
[12:41] <popey> ok
[12:41] <ChrisTownsend> popey: systemd just did not play nice with the whole lxc thing I have set up there, so the easiest thing to do was to whack systemd and install upstart for the system services.
[12:42] <popey> ah
[12:42] <ChrisTownsend> popey: And you probably tried setting up unity8-lxc while I was trying to nail all that down.
[12:42] <popey> probably :)
[12:42] <ChrisTownsend> popey: And it just wasn't installed correctly.
[12:42] <ChrisTownsend> popey: Anyways, I'm glad it works for you now.
[12:48]  * greyback_ 's router giving trouble, bbiab