[00:09] <Unit193> https://trello.com/c/kdll5hVC/10-create-proper-release-tags is fixed/done/etc, right?
[00:30] <bluesabre> probably not
[00:30] <bluesabre> lemme check
[00:30] <bluesabre> :)
[00:58] <bluesabre> :]
[00:58] <Unit193> \o/
[01:02] <bluesabre> ooh the pulseaudio plugin lets you exceed 100%
[01:02]  * bluesabre would love to see playback controls in there
[01:03] <Unit193> Isn't there a bug for that.
[01:04] <bluesabre> probably
[01:04] <bluesabre> I also like the direction elementary is taking their sound indicator https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zxCog8_ekQs/VW5AnvP335I/AAAAAAAAHYM/lHrptHOhWVk/w420-h292-no/Screenshot%2Bfrom%2B2015-06-02%2B16%253A45%253A24.png
[01:05] <Unit193> Eh, yes and no.
[01:05] <ali1234> triangles :(
[01:05] <Unit193> I do not like the silly little toggles, nor that which ali1234 pointed out, but the concept is good. :P
[01:06] <ali1234> i already have all that stuff with indicator-sound, except for mic volume
[01:07] <Unit193> But not xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin
[01:07] <ali1234> fork indicator-sound and make it into a panel plugin :)
[01:07] <Unit193> xfce4-soundmenu-plugin?
[01:08] <ali1234> no, indicator-sound
[01:08] <bluesabre> combine pulseaudio+soundmenu-plugins
[01:08] <Unit193> Yes.
[01:08] <bluesabre> without the array of panel buttons
[01:08] <bluesabre> but it in the menu
[01:08] <bluesabre> :)
[01:08] <bluesabre> *put
[09:00] <ochosi> bluesabre: there were some talks with matias a while ago about combining the two plugins, but neither of us really had time to look at it in the end. thing is, putting the buttons in the menu isn't trivial, you basically need your own custom widget for that. that said, it can be borrowed from libide
[10:20] <bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, but we've been stuffing sliders and large images and whatnot in the plugin menus lately anyway :)
[10:22] <ochosi> yeah, mostly panel plugins though, so i think it's okay
[10:24] <ochosi> i guess it wouldn't be *that* much work to pull in the custom widget from libido, then again, it doesn't seem that anyone really has the time to take on that task
[10:24] <ochosi> which brings me to the next issue, milestones
[10:25] <ochosi> (lemme know when you've read my email)
[10:25] <bluesabre> just did
[10:27] <ochosi> k
[10:27] <ochosi> so personally, also looking at the specific dates, i won't be able to do much for a1+2
[10:28] <ochosi> especially a2 is at an inconvenient time
[10:28] <bluesabre> yeah
[10:28] <ochosi> so i'd say we can start with b1
[10:28] <bluesabre> I'm going to agree with that
[10:28] <ochosi> that might still mean that we have to do the work for that
[10:29] <ochosi> we don't have problematic transitions ahead this cycle i think (and hope)
[10:29] <ochosi> LO will hopefully go smoothly
[10:29] <ochosi> despite the upgrade to 5.0
[10:29] <ochosi> and within Xfce, there won't be much news
[10:29] <bluesabre> yeah, that should be fine
[10:29] <ochosi> for now, i'm not sure whether we'll manage to push in xfpm 1.6
[10:29] <bluesabre> LO doesn't change particularly much, and only gets better
[10:29] <ochosi> yeah
[10:30] <ochosi> and it's well tested from within
[10:30] <ochosi> there's little that makes it different in xubuntu than say in ubuntu
[10:30] <ochosi> and even if the current LO icons dont improve much more, they're a nice improvement over the alternative/default icons and i'm ok with shipping LO that way
[10:31] <bluesabre> mhm
[10:31] <bluesabre> let me know when you're ready for an initial release there
[10:31] <ochosi> other than the transition to gtk3.16, i'm not aware of dramatic changes
[10:31] <ochosi> ok, will do
[10:32] <bluesabre> we'll have (probably/hopefully) new catfish and menulibre which may include some larger changes
[10:32] <bluesabre> but those are still minor
[10:33] <bluesabre> should be smooth sailing to LTS
[10:34] <ochosi> yeah
[10:34] <ochosi> well the other thing we should continue to discuss is whether to opt-in for more CSD
[10:34] <ochosi> to smoothen the transition until it might be unavoidable
[10:35] <ochosi> i think theming wise there are more tweaks available which will make them look more consistent and integrated
[10:36] <ochosi> the new min and max icons already help with that
[10:36] <ochosi> but i can also remove some padding from CSD and add some padding to SSD
[10:36] <bluesabre> maybe, but it might also be a non-issue... there's no requirement to use CSD and apps that do just work
[10:36] <bluesabre> yeah
[10:36] <bluesabre> that might be a good idea
[10:36] <ochosi> yeah, file-roller is dead ugly atm though
[10:37] <bluesabre> yes
[10:37] <bluesabre> I've been regularly using the Xfce Default window borders
[10:38] <bluesabre> they blend well with greybird and are resizable
[10:38] <ochosi> and while simplescan looks ok, i personally don't see much benefit in having SSD there
[10:38] <ochosi> you mean because of greybird's 1px border?
[10:38] <bluesabre> yeah
[10:38] <bluesabre> its too small on my laptop screen, and too unreachable with my scrollball mouse
[10:38] <ochosi> knome: since you seem to be around, could you choke up the window-close svg you did for greybird so i can push that for the CSD?
[10:39] <knome> not on desktop, but i'll try to find that today
[10:39] <ochosi> ok, ty
[10:39] <ochosi> bluesabre: ideally xfwm4 would at some point allow resizing using the window shadow
[10:39] <ochosi> but i'm not sure olivier is motivated to work on stuff like that
[10:41] <bluesabre> ochosi: yeah, I don't expect to see that in xfwm4...
[10:41] <ochosi> well, especially since CSD already does it
[10:41] <ochosi> and sort of "for free"
[10:41] <ochosi> (although there are downsides, e.g. when taking screenshots of a single window, it always includes the shadows)
[10:45] <ochosi> bluesabre: of all the things on the 15.10 roadmap, replacing xfdesktop in ubiquity seems like one of the things we should really get done
[10:45] <bluesabre> ochosi: added feh to live session yesterday... just need to patch ubiquity now
[10:45] <ochosi> oh
[10:46] <ochosi> sweet
[10:46] <ochosi> didn't notice
[10:47] <bluesabre> 22:18	--	Notice(SwissBot) -> #xubuntu-devel: ::xubuntu-seed:: Revision 986 @ http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/ubuntu-seeds/xubuntu.wily/revision/986 (by Sean Davis)
[10:47] <ochosi> yeah, i guess i should subscribe to seed changes...
[10:47] <bluesabre> that's here on xubuntu-devel now
[10:48] <bluesabre> just add a highlight for swissbot
[10:48] <ochosi> oh good
[10:49] <ochosi> wrt LO icons, i'll do a first release when writer's main toolbars look ok
[10:49] <ochosi> hopefully that won't be long, but depends a bit on whether knome also picks up his drawing stick again ;)
[10:50] <knome> woot
[10:50]  * knome hits ochosi's fingers with a "drawing stick"
[10:50] <ochosi> ouch!
[10:51] <knome> i have a question...
[10:51]  * bluesabre watches and learns how to create icons
[10:51] <knome> since we drop abiword and gnumeric for 15.10...
[10:51] <knome> what's the support status for them/LO?
[10:51] <knome> do we give user support both until the EOL of all releases with abiword and gnumeric?
[10:52] <knome> i mean, not that there is any reason to not give it even after they are not used, but...
[10:52] <bluesabre> so through 2017
[10:52] <knome> essentially...
[10:52] <bluesabre> I think the majority of our support has been (well, that's a bug that we can't fix)
[10:52] <knome> yep
[10:53] <bluesabre> "if you need an alternative, please install LibreOffice"
[10:53] <bluesabre> :D
[10:53] <knome> i guess regressions aren't likely, since nobody cares too much to push new versions to trusty
[10:53] <bluesabre> yeah
[10:53] <knome> i guess we should wait until the next release to see if we want to keep on shipping LO
[10:54] <knome> if we want to, then we likely want to start advocating its use even on trusty if people end up in trouble with abiword and gnumeric
[10:55] <bluesabre> yeah
[10:55] <bluesabre> that's probably the way to go
[10:57] <ochosi> yup, agreed
[10:59] <bluesabre> !team | putting this out there again, please take a moment to add your general availability
[10:59] <bluesabre> http://doodle.com/vmzrybyw9r9929wt
[11:02] <knome> ochosi, i'm sorry, but i don't think i have the svg you are looking for...
[11:02] <knome> ochosi, are you sure it's not on a repository somewhere?
[11:03] <ochosi> knome: don't think so
[11:03] <knome> i mean i don't usually delete stuff that can be useful that isn't on a repository
[11:03] <knome> it was the greybird xfwm close icon, right?
[11:03] <ochosi> yeah
[11:03] <ochosi> i looked and i only have the png
[11:03] <knome> is it possible we just did the png?
[11:03] <ochosi> could it be that there's no svg?
[11:04] <ochosi> :D
[11:04] <knome> that's completely possible
[11:04] <knome> iirc, it was pixel pushing anyway
[11:04] <ochosi> well in that case get to the drawing board and do a proper svg!!
[11:04] <knome> hah!
[11:04] <knome> you wish! :P
[11:04] <knome> where are the rest of the greybird xfwm svgs
[11:05] <ochosi> don't look at me, how would i know? :)
[11:05] <knome> i thought you had them
[11:05] <knome> because you did them
[11:05] <ochosi> no frankly, i think for xfwm4 we never did much svg work
[11:05] <knome> aha
[11:05] <bluesabre> :(
[11:05] <ochosi> even though it would have made some things easier, but i think at the time (yeeeeears ago) i started with png and stuck to it
[11:05] <ochosi> too lazy
[11:05] <bluesabre> nobody knows whats going on anymore :p
[11:08] <ochosi> bluesabre: wrt the doodle my times are to be taken with a huge bag of salt
[11:08] <bluesabre> ochosi: sure
[11:08] <ochosi> my job is about to end and my times will be a lot less regular from here on
[11:08] <ochosi> (and less calculable)
[11:08] <bluesabre> this is mainly so I can schedule the next meeting
[11:09] <ochosi> sure i know
[11:09] <bluesabre> (maybe for next week)
[11:10] <ochosi> bluesabre: so i'll reply to Laney's email saying that we're up for b1 onwards
[11:10] <bluesabre> cool
[11:11] <ochosi> i'll try not to automatically sign us up for doing b1
[11:11] <ochosi> also, can someone please translate this for me? "I put myself down for nusakan (cdimage) pres butaning for A2 and B1."
[11:14] <bluesabre> probably translates to "Please forward all questions and bug reports to Simon Steinbess... for A2 and B1"
[11:15] <knome> ochosi, you happy with this? http://xubuntu.org/?page_id=3081&preview=true
[11:16] <ochosi> knome: the padding at the top is a bit excessive
[11:16] <knome> sigh..
[11:17] <ochosi> yeah yeah, i know
[11:17] <ochosi> still
[11:17] <ochosi> you asked ;)
[11:17] <knome> i don't even know where that comes from
[11:17] <knome> but that wasn't the point...
[11:17] <ochosi> and yes, i like it
[11:18] <knome> ok, then i'll request some redirects and when they are done, push that in place
[11:19] <ochosi> perfect, thanks!
[11:21] <bluesabre> knome: I'm going to work on a post this weekend for finding/reporting bugs (ubuntu-bug, packages from PPA, etc)
[11:22] <bluesabre> might copy the content from that to a new FAQ
[11:22] <knome> nice
[11:22] <knome> or you can just write it for xubuntu.org directly ;)
[11:22] <bluesabre> maybe
[11:23] <bluesabre> but my posts are image-heavy, and xubuntu.org posts are notoriously not
[11:23] <bluesabre> "New release! No screenshots!"
[11:23] <knome> hah
[11:23] <knome> we now have all that sorted, so we can easily attach images
[11:23] <knome> and it'll look good too
[11:24] <ochosi> bluesabre: moar screenshots!
[11:25]  * ochosi appoints bluesabre xubuntu's senior blog screenshot correspondent
[11:25] <knome> ochosi, rt ticket filed, you're CC
[11:25] <knome> ochosi, now i know where the padding comes from - the theme - it's in there for all pages - have to fix it later
[11:26] <ochosi> okeydokey
[11:26] <bluesabre> :D
[11:26] <bluesabre> time for work, bbl
[11:27] <ochosi> alrighty, ttyl bluesabre 
[11:53] <lderan> bluesabre: added the times i can do :)
[11:54] <bluesabre> thanks lderan !
[12:17] <knome> pleia2, now https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-website/static-assets is REALLY ready for pulling :)
[12:23] <knome> huh, jquery isn't loading on xubuntu.org
[12:23] <knome> so the mobile menu isn't working
[12:28] <knome> ok, fixed temporarily by loading something else that always includes jquery
[12:29] <lderan> \o/
[12:33] <knome> and sent a RT ticket
[13:36] <knome> ochosi, new content drop finalized, again positive points for IS
[14:07] <knome> updated http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/ for a slightly more straightforward approach
[15:41] <knome> !team | for organization purposes, i have moved the calendar from x.org/team-calendar to x.org/dev/calendar - please update your bookmarks!
[16:02] <knome> ochosi, so... what else did you want @ developer area again?
[17:24] <Unit193> bluesabre: I'm not dating or married so I'm pretty availabile.  Oh wait you meant in another way.
[17:24] <knome> haha.
[17:24] <knome> nudge nudge wink wink
[17:28] <holstein> *is* a wink as good as a nudge?
[17:41] <SwissBot> feed xubuntu-artwork had 5 updates, showing the latest 3
[19:37] <knome> pleia2, Unit193: think you have anything to add to http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-website-ssl ?
[19:37] <knome> pleia2, Unit193: (or change); fwiw, i'm open for https as default too, but even the ubuntu website doens't seem to do that, so i don't know
[19:40] <Unit193> Not sure if you're supposed to put a reason behind the request, or not.  Seems ubuntustudio.org doesn't precisely use hsts, but all the links are https.
[19:41] <knome> reason why we want HTTPS?
[19:41] <knome> well i don't have a strong reason.
[19:45] <Unit193> Nah, just not sure how requests to IS usually go. :P
[19:45] <knome> regarding x.org, they've lately gone  me: "we need this"  IS: "done"
[19:46] <knome> props to them for that.
[19:47] <Unit193> \o/
[19:47] <knome> they handled *two* requests i filed *today* within a few *hours*
[19:47] <Unit193> I'd like HSTS, but hey that's just me.  If it's not done properly it tends to mess stuff up though.
[19:48] <knome> i was thinking that it would be a step in the right direction if we just enabled https now
[19:48] <knome> and when that's done, we could reassess the situation and ask to make it the default at some point
[19:56] <knome> from my point of view, there's no rush to get that done
[19:59] <Unit193> Nah, not really.
[19:59] <knome> so yeah, that's why i thought "just let's make it possible first"
[19:59] <knome> and that's a much fairer request to begin with too
[20:00] <knome> and doesn't mean we end up in a technical mess
[20:02] <knome> Unit193, offhand, do you have further ideas for http://xubuntu.org/dev/ ?
[20:03] <Unit193> knome: Is this for us or them?
[20:03] <knome> mostly us, but it shouldn't be too scary-looking for them either
[20:04] <knome> and anything can be for anybody, if people think it makes sense
[20:04] <Unit193> Just thinking that we also use Sean's wiki, and at least some of use https://sigma.unit193.net/~unit193/xfce412.html there's also a few more external but related sources.
[20:05] <knome> sure.
[20:05] <knome> what i'm not sure about yet is how to separate stuff
[20:05] <knome> eg. what should go into the wiki and what to x.org
[20:05] <knome> currently, i want to keep as much developer-facing stuff in the wiki as possible
[20:06] <knome> that doesn't mean we couldn't link stuff from x.org too
[20:06] <Unit193> I like x.org, it's faster. :P
[20:07] <knome> suuuure
[20:07] <knome> but you know that's not the point
[20:07] <Unit193> Speaking of which, either of the two other devs around?
[20:07] <Unit193> knome: Yes, and I do get your point.  That's why that page is complicated.
[20:08] <knome> i just slightly updated it
[20:08] <knome> i think the "wily" (or "current cycle") box is open for anything that is useful right now
[20:08] <knome> and that people need to relatively frequently access
[20:09] <knome> and that is top-level enough that a link in a single team blueprint isn't enough
[20:09] <knome> one option is to move the strategy document to x.org
[20:09] <knome> but... meh
[20:10]  * knome shrugs
[20:11] <Unit193> That'd rather make sense to me.
[20:11] <Unit193> However, you don't get the (terrible?) version control on it then.
[20:11] <knome> wordpress does have revision history
[20:11] <Unit193> Ah, ok.
[20:12] <knome> though sure, you'd lose the history so far
[20:14] <Unit193> bluesabre: xfdashy, for the extras ppa.  Follow development releases like last time? https://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce/2015-June/034543.html
[20:15] <knome> mmh, ppa's
[20:17] <Unit193> Or I could do the fun trick of stable series for trusty, development for vivid and wily. :D
[20:17] <Unit193> knome: They're easier, and currently we're wating on Debian for Ubuntu repos.
[20:18] <knome> no here: http://xubuntu.org/dev/
[20:19] <Unit193> The shimmer daily one. :3
[20:20] <Unit193> Also, there's the Xubuntu daily too if you like that one.
[20:21] <knome> i kind of say boo for https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa, since i don't like the naming or the description
[20:21] <knome> soo.. fix that and... :)
[20:23] <Unit193> It needed fixed, someone else can fix it properly. (It's kind of fixed now.)
[20:23] <knome> :P
[20:23] <knome> bluesabreeeeeee
[20:58] <Unit193> Checked the usage of extras just now.  So while xfdash is pretty much the highest currently, soundmenu and pulseaudio are high as well, but thunar-dropbox-plugin just plainly blows them out of the water for trusty with a whopping 800+ :3
[20:59] <knome> heh
[20:59] <knome> yeah, i can imagine people wanting to use that
[21:00] <Unit193> https://qa.debian.org/popcon.php?package=thunar-dropbox-plugin not as high, but not surprising.
[22:06] <knome> oh yay
[22:06] <knome> another RT ticket fixed for us today :D
[22:06] <knome> pleia2, ^
[22:08] <Unit193> \o/
[23:20] <Unit193> Logan: Feeling upload-y?  ppa:unit193/staging or https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-eyes-plugin_4.4.4-0ubuntu1.dsc:
[23:25] <Unit193> Same for timeout-plugin, the ppa or https://sigma.unit193.net/source/xfce4-time-out-plugin_1.0.2-0ubuntu1.dsc