[07:38] <bujji> intrbiz:some aystem admin commands to know system performance..?
[07:51] <bujji> lilo?
[08:16] <bujji> please any one give me syatem admin related reference..)))
[08:16] <bujji> system*
[08:17] <bujji> intrbiz:o/
[09:19] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:46] <SuperEngineer> sometimes one has to make *really big* decisions like "bacon sandwich now or bacon sandwich later"...
[09:46] <SuperEngineer> hmmmmmmmmm
[09:49] <brobostigon> :)
[09:49] <brobostigon> why not have both?
[09:56] <SuperEngineer> mmmmmmm -nom, nom!  I do like that idea!
[09:58] <brobostigon> :)
[10:56] <czajkowski> aloha
[11:44] <brobostigon> afternoodlings czajkowski
[12:15]  * zmoylan-pi has bread and taytos for lunch (not influenced by the aer lingus story at all, at all) :-)
[12:18] <shauno> heh, I saw that one.  they're not going to win me over that easily!
[12:18] <zmoylan-pi> more of a king fan?
[12:18] <shauno> lol, I meant aer fungus
[12:19] <zmoylan-pi> i know a few ex pats who's pay 3 times the price of ryanair just for that first taste of tayto...
[12:20] <shauno> easier just to go to sainsburys and buy them, no?
[12:20] <zmoylan-pi> they're northern ireland tayto... slightly different
[12:23] <shauno> I should be flying to the states on aer lingus for christmas though.  that'll be different
[12:24] <zmoylan-pi> yes, you can bring a box of tayto in your checked on luggage :-D
[12:34] <penguin42> it's an odd world where you hear a bleeping, find it's the washing machine in an error state, look up the hex error code it displays to find it says low water pressure and *then* turn on the tap to find the water is off
[12:35] <zmoylan-pi> once took me about 6 months to track down a rogue random beep to a smoke alarm that beeped once every 15 minutes to let me know the battery was flat...
[12:35] <shauno> see, in my head, the washing machine would just send you an email
[12:36] <zmoylan-pi> no no, in the web 2.0 world it would tweet an emojii
[12:36] <penguin42> shauno: Well, the thing is, it does have wifi and I could monitor it from my phone if I could be bothered to set it up
[12:36] <zmoylan-pi> surely you just need to download an app...
[12:36] <penguin42> well, yes
[12:37] <penguin42> why can't it just do an SNMP trap?
[12:37] <shauno> see, I'd love that
[12:37] <shauno> I have an app for my espresso machine :)
[12:37] <zmoylan-pi> what you really need is a giant oujia board on the floor and the washing machine spells out messages as it wobbles about the room :-D
[12:37] <penguin42> shauno: I have an app for my new camera - can take a picture remotely from the camera - but it's pretty crap; only lets you change the zoom and trigger it
[12:38] <shauno> zmoylan-pi: hah, that's closer to what I have
[12:39] <shauno> but see, in my head we'd have something central much like we do with a router
[12:40] <shauno> and your washing machine etc would just advertise itself on the network, and the router would see it and pick up the correct app for it  (something like docker, ubuntu snappy, etc, where it can go grab from the repo something that matches the ident)
[12:40] <zmoylan-pi> maybe it could spell out messages by nicking black and white socks for 0's and 1's...
[12:40] <penguin42> shauno: Well that's why I say if it used something like snmp that would kind of work
[12:40] <shauno> and then we can do everything via this one central point instead of having a different app for everything
[12:41] <shauno> it just bugs me that everything I have that calls itself smart, operates in a vacuum
[12:41] <zmoylan-pi> except the vacuum cleaner of course...
[12:41] <shauno> nah, my roomba doesn't join in eithe r;)
[12:42] <penguin42> you mean that the washing machine or espresso machine could call in the vacuum cleaner to sort out a spill?
[12:42] <shauno> but, eg, I put my work shifts into my calendar.  tell my coffee machine when it should turn on & heat up.  tell my lights when they should come on
[12:42] <shauno> what I can't do is tell my coffee machine that it should turn in 90 minutes before a calendar event, and my lights 60 minutes before a calendar event
[12:43] <shauno> instead we have the kind of duplication of effort that'd get me fired at work
[12:45] <penguin42> shauno: Right, because you don't have APIs to the coffee machine or lights; although the lights should be doable
[12:45] <shauno> (it does actually take 20-30 minutes for the temperature on my coffee machine to stabilize, so at 5am it's a very real concern)
[12:46] <shauno> I kinda do for the coffee, it's on a belkin wemo outlet.  which is mostly standard protocols beaten and broken until they no longer resemble the standard
[12:46] <shauno> and my lights are just json over http
[12:47] <shauno> my gripe is that I shouldn't have to write the glue.  that's not "smart"
[12:47] <penguin42> ok, so you want some sort of hub application with plugins for each one
[12:47] <shauno> right
[12:48] <shauno> I figure something like Snappy where the apps come from a repo
[12:49] <zmoylan-pi> i think the problem is that if there was a single app/web page/interface protocol every appliance would think it deserves to be #1 from your smart nose hair clippers to you electric pepper grinder
[12:49] <shauno> that way it's not just "anything on the network can install code on the router".  the devices advertise what they are, and snappy finds something to match from the repo.  that way you only have to trust the repo, not every device that tries to be 'smart'
[12:49]  * penguin42 notes you wouldn't want to get the electric pepper controls confused with the smart nose clippers
[12:50] <penguin42> shauno: Well, you should already be able to do something like that with mdns/avahi broadcast to detect stuff
[12:50] <shauno> sure.  I think all the components are there
[12:51] <zmoylan-pi> if they all had android apps they could have widgets you arrange on a tablet screen any way you prefer
[12:51] <shauno> we have the technology.  we've had it for a long time.  what we don't have is vendors with any interest in playing nicely together
[12:51] <zmoylan-pi> i remember looking at home automation in mid 80s.  red one gizmo that was controlled by 8 bit computer
[12:52] <shauno> which is what's left the whole thing vulnerable to something like apple's "homekit".  it's going to take someone bigger than the vendors to scare them all into being compatible
[12:52] <shauno> which, as much as I'm the token apple-lover around here, isn't really the ideal result
[12:53] <zmoylan-pi> because the world uses different voltages and frequencies it will be very expensive to make a global standard
[12:54] <shauno> none of that really needs to be standard though.  the individual appliances can do whatever they like, as long as they're capable of sharing back to something sane
[12:55] <shauno> I don't care if the washing machine uses wifi, bluetooth, zigbee, ethernet.  as long as it can send messages back to the router, and the router can schedule events on the washer
[12:55] <zmoylan-pi> it's a level of standardisation that will make smart tvs look... easy
[12:57] <shauno> well, philips (my lights) have already announced they plan to work with homekit
[12:57] <shauno> if belkin do the same, my issues disappear down an Apple blackhole
[12:57] <penguin42> shauno: I don't really understand the wifi system thats used for pairing devices
[12:58] <shauno> for which?
[12:58] <zmoylan-pi> wps?
[12:58] <penguin42> yeh
[12:59] <shauno> the two systems I have both do their own thing
[12:59] <penguin42> both the camera and the washing machine use WPS I think
[13:00] <shauno> belkin shows up as an AP when it's unitialized, then you connect to it and direct it to your wifi network
[13:01] <shauno> and philips just lays claim to the nearest 'homeless' lightbulb when you hit the link button
[13:03] <shauno> which is a fun process.  "hold the bulb up to the base station and press Link" sounds perfectly sensible
[13:03] <shauno> until you realise that the bulb has to be plugged in & powered for this to work.  So you end up making offerins of table lamps to your router.
[13:04] <zmoylan-pi> but it's supposed to be wireless!!! :-(
[13:04] <shauno> yeah.  it is and it isn't.  the communication is wireless.  the light bulb still needs electricity
[13:05] <zmoylan-pi> http://notalwaysright.com/?s=wireless
[13:07] <zmoylan-pi> and good luck holding up your smart washing machine to the base station... :-D
[13:08] <penguin42> the WPS stuff is more just a pair of devices though rather than to a central hub?
[13:09] <shauno> I honestly don't have much clue about WPS.  I've only used it to try to link a linksys to another base-station.  and it didn't go well
[13:12] <zmoylan-pi> getting wifi ap to become wifi extenders can be very hit and miss due to the software installed by the manufacturers
[13:12] <shauno> in other news, Philae (comet-lander) is awake!  http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-33126885
[13:12] <penguin42> shauno: https://developer.sony.com/2013/11/29/how-to-develop-an-app-using-the-camera-remote-api-2/  wow
[13:13] <zmoylan-pi> nasa is now on hold to tech support trying to reset their pin code for philae... :-P
[13:13] <shauno> penguin42: that's actually a whole lot more than I ever expected from Sony!
[13:13] <penguin42> shauno: Yeh, lets see if that's the version mine supports
[13:17] <shauno> I'm not sure anyone expected Philae to come back.  it only worked for 60 hours before it went to sleep.  so waking up 7 months later is awesome
[13:17] <penguin42> yeh
[13:18] <zmoylan-pi> no, the stories at the time did say there was a chance it would wake later as it approached the sun and got more light
[13:19] <zmoylan-pi> it was designed to travel while off to it's meetup with the comet.  so we're getting better at that
[13:20] <penguin42> tapping big wifi password in using the wheel on a camera isn't fun
[13:23]  * zmoylan-pi remembers the joy of configuring ancient printers via dip switches which were always in most awkward spot on devices that weighed a tonne and were by the time i go to them manky... :-)
[13:26] <zmoylan-pi> you would have thought it would be really easy to add a qr code reading bit of software to sony cameras to read wifi codes that way
[13:27] <zmoylan-pi> copy wifi code to qrcode generator on web, take pic with camera, camera joins network with code
[13:28] <zmoylan-pi> of course it would also need the wifi ssid but that wouldn't be a biggie
[13:29] <penguin42> hmm, not sure if that's the way this camera connects to none-phone, I can configure wifi on it, but then it doesn't seem to do much with it except to connect to the base station, if I put it in connect to computer mode it says I need to connect it via USB to configure something which I guess is with the windows app
[13:30] <zmoylan-pi> that's... helpful...
[13:31] <penguin42> I suspect this might be slightly too early a camera for that protocol, so it might be easier to look at the phone protocol rather than the computer one
[13:32] <shauno> that's kinda how the apple watch pairs.  it draws a starfield-type pattern on the screen, then you take a picture with your phone
[13:32] <zmoylan-pi> it makes more sense to do it that way i think
[13:33] <penguin42> oh, the phone pairing you install an app on the phone, put the cemera into phone mode and it displays a password that you tap into the phone
[13:33] <zmoylan-pi> asking humans to type in long random strings of alphanumerics gets less easy the more times it fails...
[13:41] <zmoylan-pi> bonus points when they use a font that makes 1's and l's so so similar... or's 0's and O's
[13:41] <zmoylan-pi> compaq used to use a font on serial numbers that made B's and 8's indistinguisable
[14:08] <penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Ah, that explains why they had to invent the thing where holding down a button would burble the machine serial information so you could hold up the phone to the system
[14:11] <penguin42> right, given the boiler a bit more pressure, it got upset at losing mains
[15:44] <diddledan> and I'm back in civilisation
[15:44] <diddledan> (amazingstoke counts as civil, right?)
[15:46] <penguin42> going round and round in circles?
[15:46] <diddledan> of course!
[16:07] <shauno> I guess basingstoke counts if you've just spent 2 weeks in wales ;)
[16:07] <shauno> (not that it's much better here.  I went for a cycle yesterday, and after an hour noticed the signs weren't in english anymore)
[16:12] <shauno> (eg http://i.imgur.com/x7zcSZg.jpg )
[16:15] <penguin42> shauno: you don't need your passport do you?
[16:16] <shauno> dunno, they've never asked :)
[16:17] <shauno> it gets really irish really quickly out that way though.  barna/furbo actually have irish-language requirements for much of their housing (I think 80%?)
[17:08] <zmoylan-pi> well it is... you know... ireland
[17:09] <shauno> sure, but there's a slight difference between, say, dublin and the gaeltacht
[17:10] <zmoylan-pi> the english is better in the gaeltacht :-P
[17:11] <shauno> than dublin?  that's not setting a high bar ;)
[17:13] <shauno> so, my entry for "what could possibly go wrong" this week; someone's agreed to take me on as race crew for cowes week.  I've had exactly one sailing lesson so far (and another booked between now & then)
[17:13]  * zmoylan-pi is reminded of the american general who's plane came down in dublin mountain around wwii.  an irish speaking regiment were training in the area and quickly secured the area.  the general commented later that these guys sure know their codes... :-)
[17:13] <zmoylan-pi> so technically for the race you'll be ballast....
[17:14] <shauno> pretty much railmeat, yeah
[17:14] <shauno> but I'm still stoked :)
[17:15] <shauno> I literally have a spot because they're one man down for the first two days, so I'm to fill a spot on the roster
[17:29] <DJones> Hmmh, can;t "run minecraft.jar by right clicking and using "open with java*" option just isn't there
[17:33] <zmoylan-pi> it's make you more productive feature... :-)
[23:46] <diddledan> is wily out yet? :-p
[23:47] <daftykins> trust you to ask
[23:47] <daftykins> ;D
[23:49] <diddledan_> ooh, BSOD
[23:51] <diddledan_> bye me \o
[23:52] <daftykins> doppelganger!
[23:52] <diddledan_> it's almost as if there's two of me
[23:53] <daftykins> which one is faster?
[23:56] <diddledan_> he was