=== chriadam|away is now known as chriadam [02:29] how can I invoke scope from my QML application? === Azelphur is now known as Azeiphur === Azeiphur is now known as Azelphur [05:10] hi, everyone. [05:10] How many Ubuntu touch users in the world? [05:12] * ahoneybun raises his hand [06:15] good morning [06:21] does anyone know how to invoke a scope from an application? thanks [07:32] technical issue on kirillin here: apt-get install libudev-dev works well on stable but not on rc or proposed-rc. I get: [07:32] The following packages have unmet dependencies: libudev-dev : Depends: libudev1 (= 219-7ubuntu3) but 219-7ubuntu6 is to be installed [07:32] any ideas why? === chriadam is now known as chriadam|away [08:35] any devs here? [08:52] aquarisman: lots, ask a question and they might be able to help you [08:52] davmor2, he did above :) [08:52] good morning [08:53] aquarisman, kind of looks like your device doesnt know about the PPA [08:53] ah missed that [09:00] beuno: Ping [09:01] om26er: neither will chroots, will they? [09:01] er, s/om2er/ogra/ [09:02] @ogra_ I expect things to work with the default apt/sources.list - should I add a repository? [09:02] @ogra_ and as I said - things work perfectly with the stable branch. problems are only when I try the rc branch. [09:03] stable is utopic, rc is vivid+ppa [09:03] well, utopic-ish [09:03] aquarisman, well, i'm not sure we even add the ppa to the soucres.list at all ... check it [09:03] @ogra_ what would be the "workaround" to solve this mismatch? can it get upstream to proposed-rc then? [09:04] we dont test deb stuff (except from when people test changes before they enter the archive but that sets up tehz PPA) [09:05] just add the PPA if you want to use deb packages ... it will break anyway eventually and you need to re-flash so it is rather moot if you modify it more i guess [09:05] I try to install other software that requires libudev-dev and it is just broken on rc (and if nothing changes, it will be broken on the next "stable") [09:06] no problem to hack a little now, but I would like the stable branch to work out of the box. [09:07] well, can you check if the PPA is really not enabled anywhere [09:07] if you are 100% sure,. fiule a bug against livecd-rootfs [09:07] can you explain more what are the differences between 219-7ubuntu3 and 219-7ubuntu6 ? [09:07] * ogra_ has no idea ... i dont look at udev usually [09:08] look at the changelogs on launchpad perhaps ... [09:08] I just play with OTG usb stuff. that's a cool thing to have usb on your phone. [09:09] well, it will most likely conflict with the gadget driver [09:09] for me it is already a desktop replacement when I connect the keyboard and fire up the shell. [09:09] Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Nature Photography Day! 😃 [09:09] (unless the android driver actually has OTG support ... which is really device specififc if it does) [09:10] As I said - everything works perfectly with the latest "stable". Things break only on newer versions. [09:10] I work with the Aquaris E4.5 [09:19] @ogra_ is the PPA enabled on the stable branch? Where can I check it online? [09:20] my install has /etc/apt/sources.list.d/extra-ppas.list [09:44] Hi [09:45] Thanks to mariogrip I got apparmor === vrruiz_ is now known as rvr [10:02] So if everything's all lined up for bug 1464159, when might we expect to see that on the phone? OTA-5 perhaps? [10:02] @ogra_ thanks. I will install rc and try adding this repository before apt-get install libudev-dev [10:02] bug 1464159 in oxide-qt (Ubuntu) "Web browser should send the system language to websites (Accept-Language field)" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1464159 [10:05] aquarisman, rc-proposed should have it enabled alöready [10:06] nhaines: doesn't look fixed, so OTA-5 at the earliest [10:07] popey: thanks. I think it needed the language packs to be pulled before it would be fixed. [10:07] @ogra_ I tried rc-proposed 2 days ago and the apt-get install libudev-dev failed. was the ppa added lately? [10:07] Shame about the timing. I wish I'd noticed a week before. [10:07] aquarisman, several months ago [10:07] om26er: aquarisman the version deps of libudev-dev looks wrong to me here on wily [10:07] @ogra_ than it is not the solution ... [10:08] depends on a specific version of libudev1 [10:08] or archive skew? [10:08] just in case, /etc/apt/sources.list.d/extra-ppas.list on my stable has this contents: "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ci-train-ppa-service/stable-snapshot/ubuntu vivid main" [10:08] popey, -dev versions always depend oin their rescpective binary version [10:08] should I use the same on proposed-rc ? [10:08] ogra_: but apt-cache search didn't find the matching binary version here [10:09] can you define "stable" ? [10:09] popey, wow, on wily ? [10:09] unless I hadn't had enough coffee and didn't interpret correctly [10:09] on vivid that can happen due to the PPA ... on wily which uses the archive only this shouldnt be possible at all [10:10] ogra_: i was looking at a 15.04 armhf chroot [10:10] @popey: I got " The following packages have unmet dependencies: libudev-dev : Depends: libudev1 (= 219-7ubuntu3) but 219-7ubuntu6 is to be installed" [10:10] (thouh on vivid it would also only happen if someone uploaded udev to the PPA ... PPAs dont have proposed migration tests which usually blopcks the broken landing) [10:10] ogra_: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11718659/ [10:11] hi, sorry for my silly question - I'm trying to follow http://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-sdk/installing-the-sdk/ on my freshly made vivid chroot [10:11] popey, looks all fine to me [10:11] it said it is for 14.04 (trusty something) - can I use it anyway? [10:11] Sleep_Walker: it says 14.04 (trusty *onwards*) [10:12] meaning, from 14.04 onward, meaning, yes, also 15.04 [10:12] popey, the candidates have the same version ... and you dont have libudev-dev installed for the current version [10:12] hmm [10:12] i misread it, sorry. [10:12] all correct as it should be :) [10:12] popey: that page yes, but information shown after add-apt-repository no [10:12] not sure what aquarisman sees there [10:12] so what is the conclusion - libudev-dev can be installed on proposed-rc or not? Can anyone try it? [10:13] Sleep_Walker: i think you're overthinking it. just do what it says :) [10:13] [on my kirillin it didn't work] [10:13] aye sir! [10:13] aquarisman: I am on ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/bq-aquaris.en here, is that the channel you mean? [10:13] yes [10:14] let me try [10:14] thanks :) [10:14] np [10:14] can you check which version was installed then? [10:14] yeah [10:14] i doubt libudev-dev is installed by default [10:15] heh, yeah [10:15] phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ apt-cache policy libudev-dev:armhf [10:15] libudev-dev: Installed: (none) [10:15] yeah, it's not. [10:15] whats the Candidate ? [10:16] http://paste.ubuntu.com/11718671/ [10:16] and if you try to install libudev1 do you get 219-7ubuntu3 or 219-7ubuntu6 [10:16] 219-7ubuntu6 [10:16] yeah, looks fine [10:16] i have Installed: 219-7ubuntu6 [10:16] of libudev1 [10:16] aquarisman: do "apt-cache policy libudev1" [10:16] * ogra_ looks forward to snappy based phones ... [10:16] hah, shush [10:16] then we wont have such probs anymore :) [10:17] #shitcanonicalsays [10:17] #shitiworkon [10:17] ok. I will try to flash again proposed-rc on the phone and reinstall. maybe it is something I messed in the repositories. [10:17] :P [10:17] aquarisman: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11718674/ [10:17] aquarisman: hang on [10:17] run that command first [10:17] i guess your package lists are just outdated [10:17] now I am on stable, so there is not much to test. [10:17] yeah, probably [10:18] oh, shame [10:18] since the package db is readonly and we dont uipdate it ever [10:18] all repositories change with reflash, right? [10:18] (but the db on the server moves on) [10:18] oh - so how do I "reset" the package db then? [10:18] sudo apt-get update [10:19] same as always [10:20] so, do I get fresh sources.list* with ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel ubuntu-touch/proposed-rc/bq-aquaris.en or not? [10:20] you get one that _was_ fresh [10:20] when the image was built [10:20] right [10:20] then you need to flip it RW and "sudo apt-get update" [10:20] sure :) [10:21] I just mean that my potential old garbage is deleted [10:21] it will be gone by the reflash [10:21] ok. I will try later and report here. [10:21] but you still need to apt-get update [10:21] ok. [10:21] it formates the partitions before flashing the new image [10:21] also, you should use chroots :) [10:21] -e [10:21] yeah [10:21] rather than build on device [10:21] why chroot? I work on the device? [10:21] I used to build on devices, then I saw the light [10:22] even on the device you should use chroots [10:22] yeah, much more flexible on pc than on device [10:22] and faster [10:22] unless your main computing device is a Commodore 64 === tvoss is now known as tvoss|test === tvoss|test is now known as tvoss [11:04] Are there any plans to give the user control over outgoing remote connections? I would like to see an option that enables a permission dialogie when an app tries to access a remote host for the first time. [11:04] sturmflut2, accesses in what way ? [11:05] ogra_: All of them, every try to establish a connection to a remote host. [11:06] you mean you want a trust prompt for every http connection ? [11:06] * ogra_ doubts that would be usable [11:06] ogra_: Not for every single one, a dialogue that appears the first time and has a "remember this answer" option would already be enough. [11:07] well, what would you gain by that ? [11:08] (we have such prompts for all local actions so an app can not access local data without you knowing ... i think it is kind of assumed that apps can beyond this always access a remote server) [11:09] ogra_: Well, currently you don't know what apps are doing behind your back. It's just "network disabled" or "network enabled". That's a bit too binary for my taste. [11:09] why ? they cant access anything locally [11:10] what do you gain by knowing an app accesses port 2567 on a remote server [11:10] it wont be able to track your location, read aqny data, access the mic or camera without you knwoing [11:10] A fake Telegram app could send all my messages to a rogue server [11:11] There's nothing preventing DTelegram, Webogram or Sommergram from doing that [11:11] well but if you install a telegram app you kind of expect it to connect to a server [11:11] how would a user know that the server it accesses is some third party one ? [11:12] I think I would notice that "http://zhukov.github.io/webogram/" doesn't look like a proper Telegram server [11:12] * ogra_ thinks such apps can only be identified via downvoting in the store and bad recommendations [11:12] having such a prompt would gain you nothing [11:12] users would just click it away [11:13] it doesnt look like a proper telegram server for someone who knows what a proper telegram server is ... that wont help [11:13] That's why I'm asking for an optional dialogue. One for us developers. So it gets easier to spot bad behavior. [11:13] Currently I have to use phablet-shell and tcpdump and stuff [11:14] well, file a whishlist bu ... but i dont think it is a good idea to perster the iuser with prompts for something he expects and which will have only cryptic info for normal people [11:14] *bug [11:14] Sure, the option would be off by default [11:14] package up tcpdump and wrap it on some qml :) [11:14] popey, +1 [11:15] like the nmap tool [11:15] yeah, that's handy [11:15] * ogra_ still waits for a proper terminal widget [11:15] I was at a conf at the weekend and someone said "yeah, I really need a wifi scanner app before I could use Ubuntu phone". [11:15] So I showed him the wifi analyzer app [11:15] Then he said "Yeah, I also need an app for port scanning machines" [11:15] so you can just hand it the command to the widget and have i.e. htop working [11:15] So I showed him the nmap app [11:16] "Oh! Okay, I think I might get one then!" [11:16] haha [11:16] * ogra_ wants a terminal-app-container :) [11:16] like the webapp container [11:17] popey, ogra_: That's absolutely not the same. tcpdump doesn't decode protocols and can't look into encrypted connections. A proper system dialogue could tap into Qt and JavaScript and show you the actual hostname and maybe even the URL. [11:17] Not even tshark would properly solve the problem. [11:17] well, tcpdump wouldnt work anyway ... [11:17] inside a confined click... [11:17] no other platform does this, for good reason [11:17] How can I find log data? [11:18] ceedsystem logs are in /var/log as usual [11:18] cedian_linux, ^^^ [11:18] At the moment webapp-container doesn't even show you the whitelist URL it's been called with. You have to take the .click apart and look at the desktop file to see what's happening. [11:18] cedian_linux: http://sturmflut.github.io/ubuntu/touch/2015/05/15/hacking-ubuntu-touch-part-6-logfiles/ [11:18] app logs in ~/.cache/upstart/ [11:18] I mean logs of hardware ogra_ [11:19] what are "logs of hardware" ? [11:19] Thanks sturmflut2 [11:19] It really was worth the effort to write all this down [11:19] yeah [11:19] ogra_ I meant kernel issues etc ogra_ [11:20] cedian_linux, they are in syslog [11:20] sorry accidentally wrote 2 times ogra_ [11:20] and indeed you can see them also with the dmesg command [11:20] nice [11:21] cedian_linux: Lots of hardware messages also get logged to the Android logging system [11:21] right [11:21] where is that stored? [11:21] cedian_linux: First chapter of the article I posted [11:21] in ram ... you need to use the locgat command to read it [11:21] Oj [11:21] ok [11:22] Ogra_ are you from canonical? [11:22] i'm from germany ... [11:22] :) [11:23] but yes, i work for canonical [11:23] I thought that already since I'i've seen your public files which are pretty cool [11:24] they are on people.canonical.com [11:24] heh, yeah, my people.c.c account is a big mess :) [11:24] * ogra_ needs to clean that up one day [11:25] Yeah [11:28] This one is nice people.canonical.com/~ogra/touchbook-netboot.jpg [11:29] heh, thats ancient :) [11:29] (5 years( [11:30] It's pretty I'm 15 but love ancient stuff [11:30] this was the first device where you could detach the screen to have a tablet :) [11:31] was before asus came up with the transformer netbooks [11:32] Or people.canonical.com/~ogra/ubuntu-mobile-intrepid.png [11:32] yeah and I've got a ancient laptop front 2011 an acer aspire which works still [11:33] Ubuntu is pretty [11:34] some stuff is too easy, that's why I also use Gen too to make it hard [11:35] Ogra_ but how can I upgrade my preinstalled touch tar g? [11:35] tar.gz [11:40] hellou all [11:40] long time for me :) [11:41] Hi Se7 [11:42] hi cedian_linux :) [11:43] cedian_linux, with ubuntu-device-flash ... [11:43] (or by setting up a system-image server like Tassadar has for the nexus5 builds) [11:44] anyone knows if it s possible to send mms??whith ubuntu phone [11:46] Thanks ogra_ [11:50] ogra_ how long are you already working on Ubuntu for phones etc? [11:51] for phones ... hmm,. i think 3 years ... pretty much when they were first announced publically [11:56] nice [12:03] oh, finally running ubuntu-sdk for the first time :') === alan_g is now known as alan_g|lunch === _salem is now known as salem_ [12:05] I ran it already sleep_walker sadly enough Ubuntu edge failed/was dead [12:06] don't ruin my little victory today ;b [12:07] I'm trying to make an app [12:07] :) [12:07] after all the attempts to provide native packages for openSUSE for ubuntu-sdk I ended with ubuntu in chroot ;b [12:07] failed fetching [12:08] I've installed Ubuntu instead of gentoo on my internal drive I got gentoo external === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch === salem_ is now known as _salem === MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow === alan_g|lunch is now known as alan_g [13:13] Trying some stuff for sound and camera [13:26] popey, ogra_: Hmmm, I thought it over. What about an optional "Audit Mode"? When activated, it simply tells the runtime environments and the system to log specific app activity, like outgoing connection attempts and other things that could be interesting. I know that I can do most of that with strace and friends, but as said lots of information is lost when such low-level tools are used. [13:26] still not a fan :) [13:27] popey: Well, it would make *my* life easier ;) [13:27] write it then :) [13:27] phone-debugger_0.1_all.click [13:28] woah, new terminal is 8M big ! [13:28] crazy [13:28] Really?! Is there a new app ogra_? [13:29] ogra_, fat package [13:29] yeah, its a wobbly [13:29] :P [13:29] *all wobbly [13:29] cedian_linux, it works on x86 too now [13:29] be glad we don't also support powerpc and mips on the phone [13:29] would be even bigger than [13:29] just wait [13:29] hah [13:30] snappy supports amd64 [13:30] so you add another third [13:30] ogra_ the new app works great [13:30] and once that TV settopbox manufacturere makes a good offer to canonical you'll see MIPS too ;) [13:30] I need arm ogra_ [13:30] snappy will have deduplication and be clever about downloading stuff, right? :) [13:31] theoretically :) === _salem is now known as salem_ [13:32] mzanetti, wow, shell rotation is quite annoying on the arale ... (i always hit the button and end up on the home screen unconditionally) [13:33] ogra_, I blame that button [13:33] me too [13:33] we should have killed it :/ [13:33] it should not be there [13:33] yeah [13:33] well, the led should [13:33] just the button function should eb off [13:33] ogra_, well, we can't even control the led [13:33] *be [13:33] you can ... via /proc [13:33] oh [13:34] * ogra_ had it running as HDD eld for a while [13:34] one sec, need to find a bug report [13:34] *led [13:34] it is actually very interestong to see the dosk IO [13:34] *disk [13:34] mandel: how do i get debug logging for u-d-m? [13:35] ogra_, can you add that information to here please: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1461682 [13:35] Launchpad bug 1461682 in unity8 (Ubuntu) "[MX4] LED does not notify for incoming notifications" [Medium,New] [13:35] mzanetti, yeah, i know that bug ... [13:35] it functions differently on the arale ... someone has to write a backend for that [13:36] its just in a different place in /sys I thought [13:36] I certainly poked at it just fine [13:36] mzanetti, cat /sys/class/leds/mx-led/trigger [13:37] ogra_ where's phone debugger 0.1.click? [13:37] cedian_linux, that was a joke :) [13:37] ok [13:37] ogra_, thanks [13:37] i guess the timer trigger is what you look for [13:37] didn't read that part ogra_ but I use arm on my phone [13:38] (wild guess though) [13:39] mzanetti, hah ... [13:39] echo 1 >/sys/class/leds/mx-led/blink [13:39] and it blinks :) [13:39] ogra_, my arale's battery is dead atm. Can we also change the color? [13:39] (echo 0 obviously stops it) [13:39] not sure [13:39] i think only the brightness [13:42] Ogra_ terminal will be updated [13:42] right now [13:42] Sleep_Walker: re 'apparmor is still alive'> yes very much so and healthier than ever. it is upstream, has a (small but) dedicated community, is in many distros, etc [13:43] jdstrand: what shall we do about the offline maps app pending in the store? The developer asked for manual review. [13:43] hah [13:43] popey, beats me [13:44] Sleep_Walker: it's been healthy for years, though we can always use help :) [13:44] jdstrand, i assume read_path wasnt intended for stoe apps (until we have a proper Sd card framework) [13:44] popey: we need someone authoritiative to respond to the list on what the plan is for app access on the sd card [13:44] crap errors again [13:44] I thought that might be you jdstrand :) [13:44] s/thought/hoped/ [13:45] no. I am not driving the implementation. we need an architect [13:45] jdstrand: who might that be? [13:45] I'm neither driving the implementation nor the design [13:45] I CC'd tvoss in my first response [13:45] do we actually have architects left in the phone area ? [13:45] yes, tvoss is the architect for ubuntu personal [13:45] * ogra_ thought they moved all to snappy too) [13:46] ah [13:46] jdstrand, yup, I will have a look tomorrow the latest, sorry for the delay [13:46] and personal will use snappy of course, so it is all related [13:46] indeed [13:46] tvoss: no worries at all :) [13:46] things are quite hectic I know [13:46] well, there are discussions atarting all over G+ currently [13:47] because the app was announced [13:47] *starting [13:47] that is unfortunate [13:47] yeah [13:47] announcing the app before it is available. is that some sort of ploy to apply pressure? [13:47] i tested the app - it's well done. [13:47] "it is only the reviwers that hold it back now" [13:47] if you live in belgium [13:47] (quote from a post) [13:48] it isn't only the reviewers [13:48] indeed [13:48] man, how can I have been more clear [13:48] we dont have an SD impolementation yet [13:48] I did it in the review, in private email and on the public mailing list [13:48] "but hey, i used read_path like the other apps" [13:48] jdstrand: well, I'm working as support guy in the original company where apparmor was developed so that is where my opinion is comming from :) [13:48] so it must work, right ? :P [13:48] I've probably literally spent a whole day just responding to this guy [13:49] Sleep_Walker: original as in immunix? [13:49] SUSE [13:49] Sleep_Walker: you might want to hop in #apparmor on oftc and participate [13:49] suse is still quite involved [13:50] and well represented [13:50] "but hey, i used read_path like the other apps" - read_path isn't for other apps. it is a workaround for core apps [13:51] jdstrand, thats what i told him [13:51] and using it doesn't address the multiuser bits at all [13:51] not sure i got through though [13:51] bah. anyway, sounds like the discussion is going to pick up again [13:51] ogra_: at this point I'm doubting you can [13:51] yeah [13:58] dholbach, ogra_, dpm: this is sounding like a PR issue. I'm stuck holding the line because there is no process for manual reviews and they are fairly meaningless anyway because there is no build from source upload functionality. plus he is trying to rush us to accept something rather than helping us drive to a design (once the design is understood, then maybe we could allow an exception, but at this point, the exception might change, etc) [13:58] dholbach, ogra_, dpm: which would affect the users [13:58] apparmor is from immunix [13:59] well originally [13:59] jdstrand, yeah ... not good ... [13:59] dobey, you need to set the google log env vars [13:59] jdstrand, we should probably disable manual reviews altogether [14:00] cedian_linux: yes, then Novell acquired them. http://wiki.apparmor.net/index.php/AppArmor_History [14:00] some stuff breaks in kernels and jdstrand I read that ;) [14:01] jdstrand, is this about an app which requires certain security privileges we can't grant easily? [14:01] dholbach: it wants r/w on the sd card [14:01] because it wants to download giant map files [14:01] What map files? [14:02] navigation maps [14:02] we're talking about a mapping app [14:02] offline [14:02] ogra_: well, we need them for the exceptions that we have but I think someone should define what they mean, define a process/policy around it, then link to it near the button to request it, then have people in charge of doing them. right now it is much too ad hoc [14:02] and is it hard to port an android app to Ubuntu touch? [14:02] mandel: and those are? i don't know anything about google log. i guess this would make u-d-m the first project i've run into that uses it :) [14:02] depends on the app cedian_linux [14:02] dholbach, we dont havve any proper handling for SD card access for third party apps yet ... [14:02] (and the developer) :) [14:02] popey, jdstrand: I guess we could update the reviewers tools to tell them that they can't have it right now because of reasons x, y and z and point them to where the discussion is happening(?) [14:03] dholbach: so, the developer knows the story [14:03] dholbach, scattered across G+ and some of it is on the ML [14:03] jdstrand, thats what you think :P [14:03] ogra_, well, we could file a bug and discuss it there [14:03] dholbach: via reviews, then private email the public thread [14:03] dobey, no problem => https://google-glog.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/doc/glog.html [14:03] dobey, look at setting flags [14:04] jdstrand, yes - I think I recall having looked at the review page [14:04] dholbach: bug would be good [14:04] I just mean adding a link in the review tools for this guy doesn't make sense-- he is who started the discussion on the list (after I advised him to do so) [14:04] popey, btw, you said teh app is sane, how sane is that app on devices without SD card [14:04] popey, does it blindly download the maps to /media/SD/* ? [14:04] I just thought that it might help others who are blocked by this - but you are right, I'm not sure how many run into this [14:04]