[06:32] <cedian_linux> Hi all
[06:37] <cedian_linux> Cheesy  wheezhy
[06:58] <bqphone> finally os updated to 15.04
[06:59] <bqphone> is there a link to see what did update and what is new?
[07:10] <nik90> bqphone: more or less OTA-4 changelog is https://insights.ubuntu.com/2015/05/29/phone-updates-may/
[07:10] <bqphone> thx
[07:10] <nik90> yw
[07:30] <dholbach> good morning
[07:32] <SturmFlut> mzanetti, sil2100, dholbach: Ping
[07:33] <dholbach> hey SturmFlut
[07:34] <sil2100> Hey
[07:35] <SturmFlut> sil2100: Did you reach barry yet?
[07:36] <sil2100> SturmFlut: sadly no... he's in the US timezone, so we'll have to wait for a few more hours
[07:36] <sil2100> Yesterday he had a day off I think
[07:36] <SturmFlut> sil2100: Argh, right. stupid timezones
[07:36] <sil2100> The phasing period is about to finish in 2 hours, I just hope there was nothing really broken in the previous s-i
[07:37] <sil2100> And, well, not much we can do for an already-released image, we'll just have to make sure we get all the fixes for the next one
[07:37] <sil2100> But damn...
[07:40] <SturmFlut> sil2100: I came across another bug that can be annoying, the whole display framebuffer seems to be shifted to the right by one pixel on krillin sometimes. It happened to me on three out of ten reboots. I already talked about it with mzanetti, seems there is no fix yet.
[07:44] <SturmFlut> sil2100: The only problem I ever had with older system-image versions is that when I first got my krillin, it simply wouldn't automatically update from r16 to r20. I remember that there was a small amount of people who either had to wait for a long time until it finally came to its senses, or you had to run system-image-cli often enough. I don't remember system-image ever being broken in a way that would prevent updates at all. So if OTA-4
[07:44] <SturmFlut> really shipped with an older version of it, it will either just work or there will be some people who have trouble updating to OTA-5.
[07:58] <cedian_linux> Ping SturmFlut
[07:58] <SturmFlut> cedian_linux: Pong
[07:59] <cedian_linux> SturmFlut: pang
[07:59] <cedian_linux> Can you implement any bash script in an app for UB touch?
[08:00] <cedian_linux> I'm installing Ubuntu 14.04
[08:01] <ogra_> sil2100, wow, if the vivid-changes ML doesnt lie then system-image was never uploaded to vivid
[08:04] <cedian_linux> Data about changes never lie Ogra_
[08:05] <cedian_linux> ogra_ ^^^^^^
[08:06] <SturmFlut> cedian_linux: You can ship a bash script with your app, yes, and you can run it, but you are running under confinement and are restricted by the App Lifecycle.
[08:07] <ogra_> so this is whats in the archive https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/system-image/2.5-0ubuntu1 ... now thats really old
[08:08] <nik90> SturmFlut: I had the same issue with the old s-i that you mentioned when I first got my krillin...somehow it managed to update to OTA-3 at the very end.
[08:08] <ogra_> at least the rtm uploads should have been parallel landings
[08:08] <ogra_> hmm
[08:09] <SturmFlut> ogra_: I hate it when I'm right. I have a tendency to immediately hit such problems when I start to dig a bit :/
[08:09] <SturmFlut> ogra_: But if it's just an old version, and not a broken one, things will probably not be so bad
[08:09] <ogra_> SturmFlut, yeah, that was a really bad one :/
[08:10] <ogra_> well, its a pre-release version ...
[08:10] <ogra_> the rtm version has a bunch of important fixes that never went into the archive
[08:11] <ogra_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/+source/system-image
[08:11] <ogra_> one upstream bump and two ~rtm uploads
[08:12] <ogra_> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/+source/system-image/2.5.1-0ubuntu1~rtm1
[08:12] <ogra_> this is missing ...
[08:13] <ogra_> and https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-rtm/+source/system-image/2.5.1-0ubuntu1~rtm2
[08:13] <SturmFlut> ogra_: I can already say that the phased update logic is broken, the function that calculates the value the client uses to decide if it should do the update does not spit out a fixed value, but it changes on every call. That will probably result on updates not being evenly distributed over the phasing period, but that would most likely only mean a higher load on the servers.
[08:14] <SturmFlut> That's how I realised that things are not right, I had seen the code shipped with OTA-3.5 and that one was correct
[08:15] <ogra_> the second one is more worrying ... but only if this image gets factory flashed
[08:15] <cedian_linux> On Ubuntu 14.04 mingw32 exists
[08:17] <SturmFlut> ogra_: Oh, right
[08:18] <mzanetti> SturmFlut, that pixel shifted to the right has been there in 14.10 already
[08:19] <SturmFlut> ogra_: 2.5.1-0ubuntu1~rtm1 fixes the phased update logic I was talking about, I think we can live without that
[08:19] <ogra_> SturmFlut, yes
[08:19] <ogra_> but ~rtm2 does the reset after factory tests i guess
[08:20] <SturmFlut> mzanetti: At least on my device it has never happened before, and I did a *lot* of reboots
[08:20] <ogra_> SturmFlut, i get it once every other month :)
[08:21] <mzanetti> same here ^
[08:22] <mzanetti> SturmFlut, well, if you figure how to repro it, let us know
[08:24] <SturmFlut> mzanetti: Will do
[08:30] <SturmFlut> mzanetti: I had a feeling that it happens more often if I had booted into recovery before, but couldn't confirm that yet
[08:38] <cedian_linux> I've found out you can install armhf debs
[08:45] <mcphail> cedian_linux: unfortunately "can" and "should" are mutually exclusive :)
[08:45] <cedian_linux> Yeah mcphail
[08:45] <cedian_linux> I'm syncing repos
[08:46] <mcphail> cedian_linux: building a system image?
[08:46] <cedian_linux> Yeah trying to help mariogrip again macphail
[08:46] <mcphail> neat
[08:47] <cedian_linux> I installed Ubuntu 14.04 instead of 15.04 on my laptop
[08:48] <cedian_linux> Because things don't work out on Ubuntu 15.04 I was still on the newer is better train, but it has proven false again
[08:55] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Fresh Veggies Day! 😃
[09:03] <cedian_linux> JamesTait where?
[09:04] <JamesTait> cedian_linux, https://www.daysoftheyear.com/days/fresh-veggies-day/ Here!
[09:05] <cedian_linux> JamesTait I meant in which country
[09:05] <ogra_> mzanetti, so with rotated shell i often end up with only shadows of apps in the spread
[09:06] <mzanetti> huh
[09:06] <ogra_> cedian_linux, in internet country :)
[09:06] <mzanetti> hadn't seen that yet
[09:08] <ogra_> mzanetti, here is one http://i.imgur.com/0YDXG2e.jpg
[09:08] <ogra_> (hard to see but it is between the dash and G+)
[09:08] <mzanetti> odd... ogra_, any way to repro?
[09:09] <ogra_> i just have a few webapps open and switch between them
[09:09] <JamesTait> cedian_linux, what ogra_ said. ☺  I doubt it's officially recognised anywhere.
[09:09] <ogra_> we need to adjust the screenshooter ... that shot was taken in landscape ;)
[09:10] <davmor2> mzanetti: I see that now and again, I think the last time was a content-hub window that maybe hadn't had it's process fully stopped
[09:10] <davmor2> ogra_: ^
[09:10] <mzanetti> ohh
[09:11] <mzanetti> davmor2, only since shellrotation? or had that before too?
[09:11] <ogra_> right, it seems to happen with all webapp windows where the app got suspended for me ... if i tap the shadow the app comes up black and then reloads the page after a bit
[09:11] <davmor2> mzanetti: had it before
[09:11] <mzanetti> uhhh
[09:11] <mzanetti> interesting
[09:12] <mzanetti> I'll look into it, thanks guys!
[09:12]  * mzanetti should use more webapps, but usually I get so annoyed by them that I rather write a native one
[09:12] <ogra_> also it feels a bit weird that the spread is copmpletely unresponsive if you rotate the device while it is open
[09:13] <ogra_> (not sure there is much we can do )
[09:16] <mcphail> OTA4 seems very slick right now. Thanks everyone!
[09:30] <cedian_linux> JamesTait sad it isn't recognized
[09:31] <JamesTait> cedian_linux, true. But we can still recognise it here. ☺
[09:37] <JamesTait> I still haven't received OTA-4. My current config looks like: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11723980/ And when I try to force the update I get: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11723998/
[09:38] <JamesTait> I'm guessing my device is pointing at the wrong channel?
[09:38] <ogra_> JamesTait, you just didnt win the lottery yet :)
[09:38] <ogra_> the phasing takes 24h
[09:39] <ogra_> only 12-14 are over yet i think
[09:40] <JamesTait> ogra_, but even with --percentage 1? Is it correct that https://system-image.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch/stable/ubuntu/mako/index.json still only shows version 19?
[09:40]  * mcphail feels smug
[09:42] <JamesTait> I totally lost track of the email threads about images and devices and renames.
[09:47] <ogra_> JamesTait, ah, i dont think the community image got released
[09:47] <ogra_> sil2100, ^^^ should that get a release too ?
[09:52] <cedian_linux> Me feels smaug
[09:52] <JamesTait> Or do I just need to switch channel?
[09:53] <sil2100> hm, let me discuss that with QA
[09:54] <sil2100> Since I only promoted the mako device in the bq-aquaris.en channel, didn't know if QA checked the ubuntu images
[09:55] <cedian_linux> Fails to build apparmor can't find apparmor.h in the same directory :(
[09:56] <cedian_linux> While it's in there <cedian_linux slaps himself in the face />
[10:01] <cedian_linux> ogra_ is it just me that doesn't want to win the lottery
[10:39] <sturmflut2> ogra_: Phasing was already at 90 percent at nine o'clock this morning
[10:39] <sturmflut2> ogra_: According to the server it is finished now
[10:40] <sil2100> Yeah, it should be done now
[10:44] <ogra_> ah
[10:44] <ogra_> i thought it takes 24h
[10:50] <mcphail> Can the update server tell how many devices are still running utopic?
[10:51] <popey> probably, but I doubt we publish that data
[10:52] <Sleep_Walker> hm, 15.04 and still upstart
[10:52] <ogra_> if you know the total amount of devices you can indeed easily make a diff and check the amount of upgraded devices
[10:52] <ogra_> Sleep_Walker, no systemd for phones until they switch to snappy
[10:53] <Sleep_Walker> ack
[10:54] <mcphail> Not a big issue just now (relatively small amount of users) but would be good to know in future so we know when to drop old frameworks
[10:55] <popey> I would imagine most phones are either a) updated, b) switched off
[10:55] <popey> so updating your framework to 15.04 should be fine :)
[10:57] <sturmflut2> popey: It would be nice to get some relative numbers after a while, like what percentage of the phones that regularly contact the system-image server are on which image. Just so we developers get a feeling for how long we have to wait after an update until we can bump the framework of our apps and upload a new version to the store
[10:58] <popey> but if you update your app, the user will not see it until they go to system settings -> update
[10:58] <popey> and then they will see the system update anyway
[10:58] <popey> So IMO right now, with all phones getting 15.04 updates, it's rather moot, surely?
[10:58] <sturmflut2> popey: I know lots of people who will happily update an app, but are reluctant to upgrade the whole system.
[10:59] <popey> maybe on other platformz
[10:59] <popey> s/z/s/
[11:03] <rickspencer3> congrats on what seems to be a success OTA all
[11:04] <cedian_linux> I get the error no such file or directory when including apparmorfs.h from the same location security/apparmor/include
[11:04] <cedian_linux> Any other files got the same issues
[11:06] <nik90> rickspencer3: cant believe we just literally upgraded from utopic to vivid..a distro upgrade gone so smooth..would be awesome to see this confidence with ubuntu desktop upgrades as well..in the near future I suppose
[11:06] <rickspencer3> nik90, sure, for those who prefer it, ti should be an option
[11:07] <rickspencer3> the whole system-image concept really does seem to have paid off in a big way, at least in terms of robustness
[11:07] <nik90> indeed
[11:11] <cedian_linux> I'll try to make an extra directory with the same files
[11:28] <mcphail> cedian_linux: are you using #include "file.h" or #include <file.h> ?
[11:31] <cedian_linux> Mcphail #include "file.h"
[11:31] <ogra_> rickspencer3, while that might be true, the overlay ppa concept hasnt paid off so well ... (sadly the system-image package was accidentially reverted to the utopic version in OTA-4)
[11:36] <mcphail> cedian_linux: and you've definitely got the right file? You've called it apparmor.h at one point and apparmorfs.h at another, or were those separate errors?
[11:37] <cedian_linux> Separated mcphail
[11:37] <mcphail> did you solve the first one?
[11:37] <cedian_linux> No
[11:38] <cedian_linux> Apparmor.h fails to include apparmorfs.h
[11:40] <mcphail> cedian_linux: I haven't tried building apparmor before. If I get a chance I'll have a look tonight
[11:40] <cedian_linux> OK
[11:40] <mcphail> what source are you using?
[11:41] <cedian_linux> The official back port, I got the sources from mariogrio
[11:41] <cedian_linux> Mariogrip
[11:55] <cedian_linux> Found it it can't find label.h which is missing
[11:59] <sil2100> ogra_, rickspencer3: well, yeah... I wouldn't say the old s-i issue is actually a problem with the overlay, since we would have the same thing in a derived distro
[11:59] <sil2100> As we would derive the distro from vivid anyway, which had the old s-i
[12:00] <sil2100> It's just that we actually need to remember about all those low-level packages next time as well, and it's easy to miss since it won't pop up in the standard tests
[12:03] <ogra_> sil2100, well, i dont really understand it, iirc slangasek did a mass sync from rtm
[12:04] <ogra_> i wonder how that slipped through
[12:05] <sil2100> Well, no...
[12:05] <sil2100> We didn't do any mass-sync from ubuntu-rtm
[12:06] <sil2100> We did a mass sync from vivid-overlay to wily, ubuntu-rtm and vivid were too much different
[12:06] <seb128> we did a wave of syncs from vivid-overlay to wily
[12:06] <seb128> that's maybe what you remember?
[12:06] <ogra_> oh, riht, sorry, i mis-remembered
[12:13] <cedian_linux> Warning aa_may_chmod redefined enabled by default gives an error
[12:13] <ahoneybun> Yay working shell rotation in rc-proposed mako
[12:15] <criztovyl> Hello, am I right here if I'm searching for some kind of support? (my aquaris phone does not start after system update)
[12:17] <rickspencer3> hi criztovyl
[12:17] <rickspencer3> as good a place as any, I suppose
[12:17] <criztovyl> hi rickspencer :)
[12:17] <rickspencer3> popey, ever hear of a failed to reboot after the update?
[12:18]  * rickspencer3 assumes this is after taking the OTA yesterday/today?
[12:18] <rickspencer3> criztovyl, note that this OTA takes a long time with no feedback that it is doing anything
[12:18] <rickspencer3> after it installs the update, it sometimes has to work for up to 30 minutes while the screen is blank
[12:19] <criztovyl> I let it alone 2 hours and afterwards the screen was black.
[12:19] <rickspencer3> that should have been more than sufficient
[12:19] <criztovyl> And the phone doesn't respond to anything
[12:19] <rickspencer3> criztovyl, is it fully charged again?
[12:20] <popey> rickspencer3: nope
[12:20] <popey> criztovyl: generally hold down power for 10s+ to reboot
[12:20] <rickspencer3> criztovyl, if it were me, I would plug it into the wall for a few hours, then hold down the power button until it reboots
[12:21] <criztovyl> now? yes.
[12:21] <rickspencer3> criztovyl, and if you hold down the power button for > 10 seconds, nothing happens?
[12:22] <criztovyl> Wait, I have not problem correctly, i will write it down now
[12:22] <cedian_linux> Why gives it the warning aa_may_chmod redefined [enabled by default] error forbidden warning?
[12:25] <sturmflut2> Social Media is going completely crazy over OTA-4 and the MX4
[12:26] <sturmflut2> My phone doesn't stop vibrating because of all the notifications
[12:27] <mcphail> sturmflut2: is the worldwide version of mx4 released?
[12:28] <sturmflut2> mcphail: "Next week"
[12:28] <criztovyl> In the morning I woke up and take a look on my phone to get the time. Then there was the "System Update Available" Notification and I've run the update, the phone shut down and the typically updating screen appeared an I fall asleep again. I woke up again two hours later and the screen was black. The I wait a half hour more. Afterwards I searched the Internet If anybody has an similar problem and found the 30 Min problem on the la
[12:28] <mcphail> nice
[12:28] <criztovyl> unchpad ubuntu phone mailing list. The I decided to write a support request to bq and they respond I should go to recovercy mode. Recovercy mode didn't help (i want to try to keep my data). Now the phone is in Fastboot mode an i want to try to reinstall the kernel. But before i want to ask somewhere if there is an other solution.
[12:28] <sturmflut2> mcphail: It will be shipped to insiders today
[12:28] <criztovyl> Hopefully the battery doesn't went empty during update :/
[12:29] <rickspencer3> popey, can criztovyl use udf to reinstall without wiping data?
[12:29] <mcphail> sturmflut2: lucky ladies and gents
[12:29] <popey> yes
[12:29] <criztovyl> udf?
[12:30] <popey> criztovyl: http://askubuntu.com/questions/602035/how-do-i-use-ubuntu-device-flash-with-the-bq-aquaris-e4-5-and-aquaris-e5
[12:30] <criztovyl> Uh, ubuntu-disk-flash... the i have to boot into my ubuntu...
[12:31] <criztovyl> Can i also use Debian for something like ubuntu-disk-flash (e.g. fastboot)?
[12:35] <criztovyl> I now can access my phone in recovercy with adb.
[12:35] <popey> did you try holding down power for 10+ seconds to force reboot?
[12:35] <criztovyl> Used the image from the link and did fastboot boot [the image]
[12:36] <criztovyl> popey Yes, then it runs until the rotating ubuntu icon and switches off afterwards and this until i turn it off again
[12:36] <criztovyl> I think the battery went empty during upgrade
[12:37] <criztovyl> But as I said I now can access the phone in recovery mode via adb
[12:37]  * mcphail thinks it would be good if the UI would issue a warning if you try to flash with <50% battery
[12:37] <popey> can you plug it into power, reboot it and just leave it?
[12:38] <criztovyl> popey Yes
[12:38] <criztovyl> I will try :)
[12:41] <criztovyl> Oh, the red LED is blinking on boot, I think this is the indicator the battery went empty during update/upgrade (wich on is it?)
[12:42] <popey> john-mcaleely: do you know what red-flashing LED means on krillin? ^
[12:43] <popey> criztovyl: i think you're right, it's probably dead battery.
[12:43] <popey> or very nearly dead
[12:43] <criztovyl> Yes, but now it power is plugged in so that shouldn't the problem :)
[12:43] <john-mcaleely> popey, I'm unsure, but that is certainly a good guess
[12:44] <criztovyl> Huh, I think its the tenth reboot now^^
[12:45] <popey> is it in a reboot loop?
[12:46] <criztovyl> I dont know, but i can remember now that after the last system update/upgrade it also did reboot often and then somewhen booted correctly
[12:48] <ultimatetux> Where can I ask development related questions about Ubuntu Touch
[12:48] <ultimatetux> ?
[12:48] <mcphail> ultimatetux: for apps, #ubuntu-app-devel
[12:48] <ogra_> ultimatetux, here
[12:48] <ogra_> right, for apps what mcphail said
[12:49] <ogra_> ubuntu
[12:49] <ogra_> ubuntu
[12:49] <ogra_> lol
[12:49] <ogra_> (now you all know my password for the ubuntu user ... damned)
[12:50] <criztovyl> ogra_ Happens.
[12:50] <mcphail> aah - I use that one for root
[12:50] <ogra_> you dont use "password" for root ?
[12:51] <ogra_> i thought that was a general convention
[12:51] <mcphail> I'm too clever for that
[12:51] <ogra_> (if you dont use "1234"
[12:51] <ogra_> )
[12:51] <ultimatetux> I'm trying to reach Tassadar
[12:51] <criztovyl> I don't use the root with password, i use only sudo -s ^^
[12:51] <ogra_> ultimatetux, well, patience then ... he drops by here every now and then
[12:51] <ultimatetux> The guy running the repos of Touch for Nexus 5
[12:52] <ultimatetux> ogra_, aha so he hangs around here..
[12:52] <ogra_> at times, yes
[12:52] <cedian_linux> Why not sudo -I?
[12:52] <cedian_linux> sudo -i
[12:53] <ultimatetux> so if I intend to start some apps adjustments and core system changes, What's the best dev bed phone to work on?
[12:53] <criztovyl> cedian_linux because i didn't know yet but it's very useful, isn't it? ^^
[12:54] <popey> ultimatetux: bq e4.5 or e5 :)
[12:55] <ultimatetux> popey, what about Nexusw 4?
[12:56] <criztovyl> My phone is still rebooting... ^^
[12:56] <popey> Nexus 4 is getting a bit old now
[12:56] <popey> criztovyl: I don't know the solution for this other than re-flash it as per that web page
[12:56] <popey> sorry
[12:56] <criztovyl> Then i will try it, thx :)
[12:57] <k1l> noooo, dont tell my n4 its getting old :(
[12:57] <criztovyl> And adb access isn'n nothing :)
[12:57] <popey> Yeah, it wont because you need to unlock the phone with PIN
[12:58] <popey> someone on the ubuntu-phone list is also seeing boot loop
[12:58] <popey> so you're not alone
[12:58] <criztovyl> I will take a look.
[12:58] <ultimatetux> popey, so it'll lag future support or is already not supported on current latest builds?
[12:59] <popey> ultimatetux: It wont get as much attention as the retail devices
[12:59] <popey> criztovyl: https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1465660
[13:01] <ultimatetux> popey, I can't get hold on a bq device however I can get hold of a nexus 4, I already have a nexus 5 but don't wanna get into the hassle of the patches made to bring it to life
[13:02] <ultimatetux> popey, if Nexus 4 can work as a development bed it will be good for me
[13:02] <popey> it works
[13:02] <Se7> hellou
[13:02] <popey> a bunch of people here have one
[13:02] <ogra_> criztovyl, if you see the rotating logo with a small bar underneath, that is actually the falshing process
[13:02] <ogra_> *flashing
[13:02] <criztovyl> ogra_ I see the standard icon :)
[13:03] <ogra_> what is the "standard icon" ?
[13:03] <Se7> I got the update yesterday :) but my circle still saying no data source available :(
[13:03] <criztovyl> ogra_ The rotating Ubuntu icon without the bar :)
[13:04] <ogra_> criztovyl, ah, on black bakground instead of violet ... ok, that is shown when it tires to start the UI
[13:04] <cedian_linux> Yes cryztovyl
[13:04] <ogra_> (after boot)
[13:04]  * ogra_ wonders how you got into that state 
[13:04] <criztovyl> ogray_ Okay, so the UI is failing?
[13:04] <cedian_linux> Got errors
[13:05] <ogra_> did you ever meake the image writable ... install debs or anything ?
[13:05] <cedian_linux> Errors everywhere
[13:05] <criztovyl> ogra_ I?
[13:06] <ogra_> criztovyl, did you tinker in any way with the image via terminalm, adb or ssh ... for example make it writable or install deb packages ?
[13:07] <ogra_> usually the upgrade doesnt fail ... which is why i'm interested how you got to a failing state with yours
[13:07] <criztovyl> ogra_ I now what you mean but i didn't if you asked me ;)
[13:07] <ogra_> ah :)
[13:07] <criztovyl> And yes, I did, for calendar sync with my owncloud
[13:07] <ogra_> aha
[13:07] <criztovyl> the syncevolution package
[13:08] <ogra_> well, that might/could cause issues ... not sure ...
[13:08] <criztovyl> I think it was via apt but i also could be it was via dpkg -i ...
[13:08] <ogra_> the OTA images are not designed for this
[13:08] <ogra_> so it could indeed be caused by adding debs
[13:08] <criztovyl> ogra_ I can access the aquaris in recovery mode via adb, i will see what i can do
[13:09] <criztovyl> ogra_ So at least we found the source of the problem, cool :)
[13:09] <ogra_> criztovyl, in recovery: mount /data ... then touch /data/.adb_onlock ... then reboot and adb should let you in even without a session running
[13:09] <ogra_> that way you could check the processes running etc
[13:10] <criztovyl> orgra_ in which state should i boot?
[13:11] <ogra_> just a normal boot
[13:11] <criztovyl> am I fast enough to get in before it reboots?
[13:12] <ogra_> the .adb_onlock file tells adbd to not wait for a UI session to let you in
[13:12] <ogra_> heh, thats a good question :)
[13:12] <criztovyl> Let's give it a try
[13:13] <criztovyl> Now it displays a battery, and the percentage :D
[13:13] <criztovyl> Hm.
[13:13] <criztovyl> 70%
[13:14] <ogra_> 238138
[13:14] <criztovyl> popey, john-mcaleely Red LED seems to be charging indicator
[13:15] <ogra_> criztovyl, press and hold power ... then it will boot
[13:15] <criztovyl> ogra_ Another password?
[13:15] <criztovyl> ^^
[13:15] <ogra_> heh, no, a 2fa token ... my yubikey is a bit close to another USB port i just plugged something in
[13:16] <john-mcaleely> cool
[13:19] <cedian_linux> Can't find an error origin
[13:20] <faenil> mm getting "ssh_exchange_identification: read: Connection reset by peer" while trying to phablet-shell on an rc-proposed BQ
[13:20] <faenil> any idea guys?
[13:22] <faenil> has localhost been added to the denyhosts by any chance?
[13:22] <criztovyl> I'm back, my computer decied to stuck.
[13:23] <faenil> mmm it works now...nothing changed...interesting...
[13:23] <faenil> r36 fwiw
[13:25] <ogra_> faenil, i was about to say, nothing changed in quite a while in that area
[13:26] <criztovyl> ogra_ I'm now in recovercy shell environment via adb
[13:26] <cedian_linux> I'll try to compile I'll keep you informed
[13:26] <ogra_> criztovyl, mount /data
[13:26] <ogra_> criztovyl, touch /data/.adb_onlock
[13:26] <criztovyl> orga_ It's alread mounted
[13:27] <ogra_> good
[13:27] <ogra_> so touch the file and on next reboot you should be able to get in via adb
[13:27] <criztovyl> Yeah, and if i touch and reboot i got the battery and if i reboot i'm back in the loop.
[13:28] <faenil> ogra_: I wonder what went wrong in the first tries :/
[13:28] <cedian_linux> Can't find some files
[13:31] <cedian_linux> Apparmor.o won't compile
[13:50] <cedian_linux> .o.
[13:52] <ultimatetux> Where can I find the sources for Ubuntu Touch?
[13:59] <cedian_linux> ultimatetux you can find it on the porting page
[14:00] <ultimatetux> Okay
[14:00] <cedian_linux> It's Ubuntu touch + CM
[14:00] <cedian_linux> Or AOSP
[14:01] <ultimatetux> How Or ? :)
[14:01] <ultimatetux> From my understanding its Ubuntu Touch + CM over AOSP !
[14:09] <cedian_linux> OK
[14:15] <jgdx> davmor2, hey Dave, I'm looking at bug 1463841 and wonder if this has something to do with the operator? Because I can't reproduce it.
[14:15] <jgdx> davmor2, did you use giffgaff and is that an mvno?
[14:18] <davmor2> jgdx: so it looks to me like a krillin issue, sim is on by default, if you set if off it stays off, if you turn it back on it is turned off.    Where as sim 2 is always off after a reset
[14:18] <davmor2> jgdx: for me it was more first boot vs hard reset
[14:19] <davmor2> jgdx: let me update the bug
[14:19] <jgdx> davmor2, wait, if there are two sims why wasn't that in the original bug?
[14:20] <davmor2> jgdx: it might happen on arale too I'll have a look in a minute for you
[14:20] <jgdx> davmor2, thanks, I'll try that as well
[14:25] <davmor2> jgdx: see if that makes sense
[14:25] <cedian_linux> I'm hoping the apparmor still works
[14:25] <jgdx> davmor2, thx
[14:27] <ahoneybun> so if I have wifi on I can't send pic messages on mako
[14:27] <ahoneybun> latest rc-proposed
[14:31] <ultimatetux> Generically.. Where can I find the sources for the deb packages for a certain distro version? for example 14.04 ?!
[14:32] <ultimatetux> I'm coming for RedHat world so we keep everything organized under SRPMS
[14:33] <didrocks> ultimatetux: you can enable deb-src in /etc/apt/sources.list (we also have an UI for this)
[14:33] <didrocks> then apt update, and apt source <source_package_name>
[14:34] <didrocks> ultimatetux: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-sourcehandling.en.html
[14:34] <didrocks> (simple google search ;))
[14:34] <cedian_linux> didrocks you mean sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get source, most of the time
[14:34] <didrocks> cedian_linux: apt update gives you nicer progress (apt v2!)
[14:34] <didrocks> interesting, apt source isn't a thing though
[14:35] <cedian_linux> OK didrocks
[14:37] <sturmflut2> I'm sure I'm just blind, but where's the WiFi Tethering switch in OTA-4?
[14:38] <ahoneybun> I don't see it in rc-proposed
[14:38] <cedian_linux> sturmflut2 I've never seen it
[14:39] <sturmflut2> cedian_linux: Wasn't OTA-4 supposed to have it
[14:39]  * ahoneybun looks for changelog
[14:39] <ahoneybun> http://people.canonical.com/~lzemczak/landing-team/ota/ota-4.changelog
[14:40] <ahoneybun> I don't see it there
[14:40] <sturmflut2> ahoneybun: Hmmmm, me neither, and I was pretty sure that I had read about this multiple times
[14:40] <sturmflut2> Well, if it isn't there it isn't there
[14:40] <ahoneybun> pushed back maybe?
[14:41] <sturmflut2> ahoneybun: Probably
[14:44] <davmor2> jgdx: so it is the same on arale it seems to behave-ish, on flash it is on, I turn it off reset and it is off, I turn it on, I reset and it's on which is Guess is a network setting it fetches correct?  So it maybe specific to krillins 2 sims
[14:46] <sturmflut2> davmor2: Doesn't krillin have the "feature" that the SIM Slot is actually powered off and removed from the bus when it's turned off, something other phones don't do? Or something like that
[14:46] <davmor2> jgdx: I think the big issue is full reset you expect the phone to be the same as it is after a fresh install.  Ie call waiting is turned on by default.
[14:46] <jgdx> davmor2, you could repro on arale?
[14:47] <jgdx> Not sure I understood what happened on arale.. But yes, it's a network setting AFAIK.
[14:48] <davmor2> jgdx: it is not the same on arale even sorry.  It does different things on arale which I might assume are correct.
[14:49] <jgdx> davmor2, okay, but that's good. Thanks for testing :)
[14:49] <davmor2> jgdx: I think the issue is the understanding of what reset does.  To me it would mean everything is reset, so if the default is on, I turn it off, and I reset I expect that thing to be on again not off
[14:49] <davmor2> jgdx: but krillin is definitely not behaving the same way
[14:50] <jgdx> davmor2, okay. Ugh, I don't know if we should touch the sim on reset. Haven't given it much thought. Sounds wrong though..
[14:50] <jgdx> imagine that we nuked all sim contacts on reset. That ain't right
[14:53] <davmor2> jgdx: indeed that would be bad
[14:56] <jgdx> davmor2, I think "Erase & Reset" is really a "Factory reset" [1], so we won't do anything wtr to SIM settings. [1] bug 1292932
[15:14] <jgdx> davmor2, what channel and image rev?
[15:15] <jgdx> davmor2, I just flashed with SIM1 call waiting ON before the flash. Call waiting was ON after the flash. Is it intermittent?
[15:17] <davmor2> jgdx: no, when you fresh flash, call waiting is on, on sim1, turn it off reset, and it is off, turn it on and reset and it is off again  rc-proposed 32 off the top of my head give me 5 and I'll double check that for you then
[15:19] <davmor2> jgdx: 26 I tested against
[15:31] <jgdx> davmor2, thanks
[15:37] <jgdx> davmor2, reproduced!
[15:38] <davmor2> jgdx: \o/
[16:01] <mj_> How can I join the official ubuntu phone mailing list please?
[16:02] <popey> mj_: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
[16:02] <popey> scroll to the bottom
[16:03] <mj_> ok cool thanks
[16:03] <davmor2> jgdx: so are you happy that you can reproduce it now ?
[16:03] <mj_> also, please feel free to join my fb community: https://www.facebook.com/groups/iuseubuntu
[16:08] <jgdx> davmor2, yes :) But it's transient and difficult to reproduce. It seems that the reason it fails is that sometimes the call settings UI does nothing. Which is troubling.
[16:09] <jgdx> so sometimes, when you change call waiting, you might end up changing nothing
[16:09] <davmor2> jgdx: \o/ glad I could help ;)
[16:12] <jgdx> davmor2, yeah, would not have seen that if you weren't around :) Thanks!
[16:14] <cedian_linux> sturmflut2 I'm running the daily version and never saw it
[16:15] <sturmflut2> cedian_linux: What? WiFi Thetering or the krillin graphics corruption bug?
[16:27] <robin-hero> Hi all! Is it normal that I don't get the OTA-4 yet? (A few days ago I flashed the rc-proposed channel, but after few hours I flashed back the stable channel, so now I am using r22).
[16:28] <sturmflut2> robin-hero: Hm, r23 should be available to everybody by now
[16:28] <robin-hero> Hmm...
[16:29] <sturmflut2> Interesting, if I just connect my krillin and run "ubuntu-device-flash touch" without additional parameters it starts downloading r22
[16:30] <robin-hero> sil2100: Can you tell us what is the problem?
[16:31] <sturmflut2> Ah
[16:31] <ogra_> sturmflut2, it uses the community channel
[16:31] <sturmflut2> ogra_: Yep
[16:31] <ogra_> (which had no release)
[16:32] <sturmflut2> robin-hero: ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/stable/bq-aquaris.en
[16:32] <ogra_> i think in fact only the bq channel got the update
[16:33] <ogra_> (meizu didnt either yet)
[16:33] <sturmflut2> ogra_: seems so, yes
[16:33] <robin-hero> sturmflut2: Okay, but am I get the next updates in the near future with this solution?
[16:34] <robin-hero> or I need to flash with every OTA from now
[16:35] <ogra_> robin-hero, is that a bq device ? and did you flash the bq-aquaris.en channel ?
[16:35] <sturmflut2> robin-hero: Oh sorry, I just assumed that you have a bq device, didn't think
[16:36] <robin-hero> yes, this is the command from my history:   ubuntu-device-flash touch --channel=ubuntu-touch/stable/bq-aquaris.en
[16:37] <ogra_> hmm, then you should get the update like everyone else did already
[16:37] <robin-hero> intresting...
[16:37] <robin-hero> system-image-cli --info:
[16:37] <robin-hero> channel: stable
[16:38] <robin-hero> alias: ubuntu-touch/ubuntu-rtm/14.09
[16:38] <robin-hero> is this right?
[16:38] <sturmflut2> robin-hero: no, it should be "channel: ubuntu-touch/stable/bq-aquaris.en" I think
[16:39] <davmor2> sturmflut2: no that is right
[16:39] <ogra_> davmor2, with that alias ?
[16:40] <davmor2> ogra_: yes it isn't updated
[16:40] <davmor2> ogra_: it is on image 22 which is 14.09
[16:40] <ogra_> oh, right
[16:41] <robin-hero> can I somehow check is my / readonly?
[16:41] <ogra_> sudo touch /foo
[16:42] <ogra_> why wouldnt it be readonly ... did you tinker with it ?
[16:42] <robin-hero> thanks, it is a read-only filesystem
[16:42] <robin-hero> so this is not a problem
[16:43] <robin-hero> Can I install other updates (like application updates) If something wrong?
[16:43] <robin-hero> Because I updated Reminders app yesterday
[16:43] <ogra_> sure ...
[16:43] <robin-hero> so I think the update process works
[16:44] <robin-hero> right?
[16:44] <ogra_> did you try rebooting the device ?
[16:44] <ogra_> no, the app update process is different from the image update
[16:44] <ogra_> (snappy will fix that :) )
[16:44] <robin-hero> yes, 3 times
[16:44] <ogra_> and you are on wlan ?
[16:44] <ogra_> (and automatic download on wlan is switched on ?)
[16:44] <robin-hero> yes
[16:44] <robin-hero> and yes
[16:45] <davmor2> robin-hero: if you type in system-image-cli -n what does it say?
[16:45] <robin-hero> davmor2: Nothing
[16:46] <ogra_> whats -n ?
[16:46]  * ogra_ thinks davmor2 makes that up :P
[16:46] <davmor2> robin-hero: throw a sudo in front of that
[16:47] <robin-hero> Nothing with sudo too
[16:47] <davmor2> ogra_:  -n, --dry-run         Calculate and print the upgrade path, but do not download or apply it
[16:47] <ogra_> ah
[16:47] <ogra_> yeah, sudo wont help
[16:47] <davmor2> ogra_: :P
[16:47] <ogra_> it uses a dbus backend
[16:47] <davmor2> ogra_: it helped me
[16:48] <ogra_> (which runs as root anyway... running the frontend as root shouldnt make a difference)
[16:48] <davmor2> ogra_: mine gave nothing without sudo and said no update available with :)
[16:48] <ogra_> davmor2, are you sure you werent just hit by the long timeout of the backend ?
[16:48] <ogra_> you cant call s-i twice in a row
[16:48] <davmor2> ogra_: could of been
[16:48] <ogra_> the backend takes 5-20min to time out before you can talk to it again
[16:49] <ogra_> (which is why i asked about reboot ... that makes sure the backend was killed)
[16:52] <robin-hero> I have just rebooted my phone and have tried with sudo, but it didn't show anything
[16:54] <davmor2> robin-hero: hmmm it should show Already up-to-date if there is no new image so not sure what is going on there :(
[17:00] <robin-hero> Interesting, I have just rebooted again, and the --list-channels option gives me an empty answer too
[17:00] <robin-hero> I think it is not normal...
[17:04] <robin-hero> If I reflashed again with revision r22 am I got the r23 update?
[17:04] <robin-hero> (I don't want to refesh to r23)
[17:07] <ogra_> --list-channels is broken since a while on the device ... it only works in u-d-f currently
[17:07] <robin-hero> unknown flag `revision'
[17:07] <robin-hero> but it is in the --help text
[17:12] <robin-hero> okay, it works if I put the revision flag before the"touch" word.
[17:21] <robin-hero> davmor2, ogra_ : Yay! :D Flashed the r22 and now I'm downloading r23 :)
[17:21] <davmor2> \o/
[17:23] <kenvandine> jgdx, i kicked a build of silo 3 now that silo 6 has landed
[17:23] <ogra_> robin-hero, yay, awesome
[17:46] <robin-hero> Which series (Utopic, Vivid, etc) translations are used for OTA-4?
[17:47] <robin-hero> For example I see a completly different string in Location Indicator, but I don't find it here: https://translations.launchpad.net/indicator-location
[17:51] <dobey> robin-hero: what about at https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-location ?
[17:51] <dobey> btw the translation focus on the upstream branch was set wrong. i've changed it to 15.10 now
[17:54] <robin-hero> dobey: Thanks, but I see here a completly different HERE condition string than in the phone (r23)
[17:56] <dobey> robin-hero: ok, the phone image is not directly built from ubuntu vivid, but vivid + an overlay ppa. i'm not 100% sure how the language packs work for that case
[18:02] <mariogrip> ogra_: I need your expertise! :)
[18:03] <mariogrip> What is the main different on system.img after installation with rootstock-installer vs system-image?
[18:04] <ogra_> uh, i cant tell, rootstock is unmaintained since over a year ...
[18:04] <mariogrip> because i tried to install using both and only the rootstock installer works (with same images and recovery)
[18:04] <ogra_> (i'll likely have to pick it up again for snappy, rsalveti is nagging me all the time about it :) )
[18:05] <mariogrip> :)
[18:05] <rsalveti> :P
[18:05]  * rsalveti hides
[18:05] <ogra_> its like dog poo on my shoe ... started as a minimal hack 4 years ago and i still cant get rid of it :D
[18:05] <rsalveti> lol
[18:05] <rsalveti> that was my first job, that you gave me, when I started, almost 5 years ago
[18:06] <ogra_> haha, i was even wrong with the 4 years
[18:06] <rsalveti> yeah :-)
[18:07] <mariogrip> but the point is that your installer works, but not phablet-flash.... i checked both images after installation and they seems to be the same... i also tried to redo some links to /android
[18:09] <ogra_> oh, phablet flash is more dead than rootstock ...
[18:09] <ogra_> it got replaced by ubuntu-device-flash
[18:09] <mariogrip> what's the new cool stuff?
[18:09] <mariogrip> ah, the then the wiki is not up to date
[18:17] <lotuspsychje> new devel-proposed update puts my nexus7 in landscape mode only, is this normal?
[18:18] <nik90> lotuspsychje: yes afaik
[18:18] <lotuspsychje> nik90: ok tnx!
[18:18] <lotuspsychje> surely feels nice and smooth
[18:23] <mariogrip> ogra_: I have been using the right tool (ubuntu-device-flash) i just mixed them up.....
[18:24] <ogra_> mariogrip, hmm
[18:25] <ogra_> mariogrip, i think u-d-f doesnt have a --rootfs option yet ... so you would only be able to define a device or custom tarball
[18:26] <mariogrip> ogra_: I have my own system-server so device tarball is made there
[18:26] <dkessel> hmmm does phablet-network work for anyone with the vivid-proposed images?
[18:26] <ogra_> ah
[18:26] <mariogrip> and it mirrors ubuntu rootfs from ubuntu rc branch
[18:27] <ogra_> i think you need to tinker with the gpg setup then
[18:27] <ogra_> but i have not much clue about the s-i server internals in that area ... Tassadar might be able to give you a hint
[18:29] <mariogrip> I think i have the same setup as his (with pulling ubuntu rootfs from the offical system-image) and just pack a device tarball, and it seems the gpg is around the same size
[18:32] <mariogrip> does the device not boot if the gpg is not valid?
[18:32] <ogra_> no, it would not install ...
[18:32] <Tassadar> mariogrip: http://hastebin.com/ijemigadaj.diff
[18:33] <mariogrip> it wont install okey, but after instal
[18:33] <ogra_> (though i guess it wouldnt boot if your device tarball didnt install indeed)
[18:33] <Tassadar> keyrings are in different folder since 3.0, and the keyring tarball was missing them,
[18:33] <Tassadar> guess that's what you're getting at
[18:34] <mariogrip> Tassadar: Thanks, i will give that a try
[18:35] <Tassadar> the keyring tarball must of course be regenerated, not sure if just this triggers it
[18:35] <mhall119> bfiller: ping
[18:36] <mariogrip> but, if the device is missing the keyrings (after install, like i skipped check) will it not boot at all then, bootloop?
[18:37] <bfiller> mhall119: pong
[18:37] <mhall119> bfiller: since pmgowan is off this week I'm letting you know, I've switched the "current" API docs to point to 15.04 framework
[18:37] <ogra_> mpt, so regarding your last bug commennt on the WIFI AP list bug, do you really want to have to choose between 20-50 "Canonical" entries in the pulldown menu at the next sprint (and manually reconnect to a new one if you went out of range of the old one) ?
[18:37] <bfiller> mhall119: thanks, makes sense
[18:38] <mhall119> not both "current" and "development" point to the same framework, we need to create and start using a new framework for post-15.04 API changes/additions
[18:40] <ultimatetux> What's the password for the phablet user for Ubuntu Touch?
[18:40] <popey> whatever you set it to
[18:40] <mariogrip> the password/lock/pincode you set
[18:57] <ultimatetux> I see
[18:58] <ultimatetux> popey, mariogrip, Thanks!
[18:58] <ultimatetux> Tassadar, hello
[18:58] <ultimatetux> Tassadar, I've emailed you earlier! :)
[18:59] <mpt> ogra_, no, and I would be extremely surprised if those APs differed in authentication in the way that your two do.
[19:00] <ogra_> mpt, mine dont differ
[19:00] <ultimatetux> After building following steps here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Building
[19:01] <ultimatetux> at `Flashing the image`
[19:01] <mpt> ogra_, you said “one supporting WPA2 only, the other supporting WPA … and WPA2”. If you wouldn’t call that a difference in authentication, what would you call it?
[19:01] <ogra_> mpt, and no OS has the issue of showintg two entries ... not ubuntu desktop, nor android nor my GFs win8 (if i convince her to reboot from ubuntu)
[19:01] <ultimatetux> What is the `rootstock-touch-install` step needed?
[19:02] <ogra_> mpt, additional auth :) ... point is that no other system i know shows them as separate entires ... (not even nm-applet) only indicator-network does
[19:02] <mpt> ogra_, according to Antti, Android does. Maybe Antti is mistaken; maybe Android really does and it’s a bad idea; or maybe it’s a good idea. I’m sorry if my imprecise “we want to” made you take this personally.
[19:03] <mpt> I used that phrase as shorthand for “to fix that bug we would need to”.
[19:03] <ogra_> mpt, well, the newes android i have here is 4.2 and it definitely doesnt show two APs to me ... perhaps he has something newer (i havent booted any android phones in a while though)
[19:04] <ogra_> mpt, “to fix that bug we would need to” ... "make the UI behave like any other UI behaves with this network"
[19:04] <ogra_> ;)
[19:04] <mpt> ogra_, I’m not aware of any OS that tries to prevent the evil-twin attack. So if we do, of course we’re going to be doing something different from other UIs.
[19:04] <lotuspsychje> lol
[19:05] <ogra_> even from our own established UI ?
[19:05] <lotuspsychje> http://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2015/06/16/samsung-galaxy-s6-vulnerable-to-cunning-keyboard-cracking-attack/
[19:05] <ogra_> mpt, that seems wrong to me
[19:05] <mpt> ogra_, maybe it’s practically solvable, or maybe it isn’t because of the problem you raise. I don’t know.
[19:05] <ultimatetux> After building following steps here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Building
[19:05] <ultimatetux> at `Flashing the image`
[19:06] <ogra_> mpt, my problem is that my phone forces me to switch APs when i go up the stairs or completely loses connection if i dont) ... while my laptop doesnt
[19:06] <ultimatetux> Why is the `rootstock-touch-install` step needed?
[19:06] <ogra_> mpt, notr any other device i have in use in my house ...
[19:07] <mpt> ogra_, if “our own established UI” was unchangeable we’d still be looking at this: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ubuntu-desktop-2-410-20080706.png
[19:07] <ogra_> ultimatetux, how else would you install the tarballs in the right places (indee you could do it by hand9
[19:07] <ogra_> mpt, well, i would like to prevent us from enforced unpleasant behavior
[19:08] <ogra_> mpt, i still have a laptop with that UI !
[19:08] <ogra_> it wasnt that bad :)
[19:08]  * ogra_ still has his first warty laptop with the original install ... never moved to a new release :) 
[19:08] <ultimatetux> ogra_, I haven't got any tarballs from building from source!
[19:09] <ogra_> ultimatetux, or img files or whatever
[19:09] <ogra_> <you can indeed do everything by hand that rootstock-install does
[19:11] <ogra_> ultimatetux, just make sure the files end up in the right places in the rootfs or partitions they need to be in
[19:12] <ultimatetux> ogra_, I thought its all about `fastboot flash`ing boot.img, recovery.img, system.img
[19:12] <ultimatetux> The documentation is seriously troubling
[19:12] <ogra_> no
[19:12] <ogra_> this is not android
[19:13] <ogra_> the documentation is outdated, has been updated by non tech people and the people that used it yet in real life use cases havent made the needed corrections
[19:13] <ultimatetux> ogra_, I did fastboot flash boot boot.img; fastboot flash recovery recovery.img
[19:13] <ultimatetux> ogra_, Now I am all halted
[19:13] <ultimatetux> ogra_, have zero idea what to do next
[19:13] <ogra_> use rootstock-install to get the system.image in place and try to boot ?
[19:14] <ultimatetux> ogra_, if I attempt to `fastboot boot` the recovery.img file the device halts and nothing happens
[19:14] <ultimatetux> ogra_, Can you point me to an example of doing that?
[19:14] <ogra_> that has nothing to do with rootfs or system-img
[19:14] <ogra_> if recovery doesnt boot your recovery is broken i guess
[19:15] <ogra_> recovery is a self contained thing ... (well, it needs boot.img for the kernel, but doesnt need rootfs or system.img at all)
[19:16] <ultimatetux> ogra_, Okay.. How to use rootstock-touch-install to install the system.img I built from sources
[19:16] <ogra_> so either your boot.img or your recovery.img is broken
[19:16] <ogra_> doesnt the doc say that ?
[19:16] <ultimatetux> ogra_, I don't want to go grab the tar.gz of the builds available
[19:16] <ultimatetux> ogra_, No.. Please check it and you'll see :(
[19:16] <ultimatetux> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Building
[19:16] <ogra_> whats that ?
[19:16] <ogra_> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/porting-new-device/
[19:16] <ultimatetux> ogra_, It says ./rootstock-touch-install utopic-preinstalled-touch-armhf.tar.gz out/target/product/mako/system.img
[19:17] <ogra_> yeah
[19:17] <ogra_> whats wrong with that ? (apart from the "utopic" which you wont find anymore anywhhere)
[19:17] <ultimatetux> ogra_, If I'm to install what I've built, I don't expect to go grab  utopic-preinstalled-touch-armhf.tar.gz or whatever
[19:18] <ogra_> but thats the ubuntu install
[19:18] <ogra_> what you build is only a 100M android HAL for the drivers
[19:18] <ultimatetux> ogra_, ohhhhhhhhhhhhh
[19:18] <ogra_> (i.e. the three img files)
[19:19] <ultimatetux> ogra_, that's the distro????
[19:19] <ultimatetux> ogra_, damn man
[19:19] <ogra_> yes, the tarball is your ubuntu ... the  system.img is the content of the lxc container we start after boot ... and well ... recovery.img annd boot.img are self explaining by their name i guss :)
[19:20] <ultimatetux> ogra_, so where's my kernel? In the tar.gz then?
[19:20] <ogra_> no, in boot.img
[19:20] <ogra_> boot.imog contains the ubuntu kernel and the ubuntu initrd
[19:21] <ogra_> recovery.img is a cyanogenmod based recovery but with a lot of ubuntu changes to support the OTA mechanism
[19:21] <ultimatetux> I thought you said ubuntu boots then starts an lxc of android!?
[19:21] <ogra_> yes
[19:22] <ogra_> ubuntu boots ... imagine a headless server ... then it starts an lxc container that provides access to the binary graphics drivers ... once the container is up your headless server moves on with the boot and starts the UI
[19:22] <ultimatetux> so if I wanna alter one of the preinstalled apps.. lets say the Calculator.. where should I be doing that?
[19:23] <ogra_> you would go to #ubuntu-app-devel and ask for the branch ... and build a click package from it ... then sideload that
[19:23] <ultimatetux> ogra_, so you mean the apps are included as binary dists ?
[19:24] <ogra_> err, yes, they are not recommpiled from source every time you boot the phone :)
[19:24] <popey> hmm, anyone notice screenshots broken on ota4
[19:24] <ogra_> they live in an overlay tarball ... not sure how you would rebuild that, i have ever only used it, never built it
[19:25] <ultimatetux> ogra_, No, I meant aren't they built when doing make inside the aosp phablet edition?
[19:25] <ogra_> popey, weird my arale does them fine (in the wrong orientation though)
[19:25] <ogra_> ultimatetux, no
[19:25] <ultimatetux> ogra_, lunch aosp_mako-userdebug; make -j4
[19:25] <ogra_> ultimatetux, the ASOP thing is *only* binary drivers and the bits needed to make them run
[19:25] <mcphail> popey: working here, i think
[19:26] <ogra_> ultimatetux, everything else is a deb package of which the rootfs tarball is built ... or a click package for the apps
[19:26] <ultimatetux> ogra_, aha.. so if I wanna adjust the kernel.. where should I be looking?
[19:27] <popey> not working at all here
[19:27]  * popey reboots
[19:27] <ogra_> ultimatetux, depends on the device ...
[19:27] <ogra_> ultimatetux, for the nexus line there are deb packages
[19:27] <ultimatetux> ogra_, hammerhead
[19:27] <ogra_> for bq and meizu the kernel tree is actually inside the AOSP tree
[19:27] <ultimatetux> nexus 5
[19:28] <popey> i cant reboot either!
[19:28] <popey> long press power doesn't work
[19:28] <lotuspsychje> popey: on wich device
[19:28] <popey> krillin
[19:28] <ogra_> ultimatetux, i think there is a linux-image-hammerhead package ... (and i guess somewhere there is a git tree on kkernel.ubuntu.com for this)
[19:29]  * ogra_ has never touched nexus5 
[19:29] <ogra_> (i doo have one but that still has android installed and hasnt been booted in about a year)
[19:30] <ultimatetux> ogra_, I did `phablet-dev-bootstrap --repo-branch phablet-4.4.2_r1 --sources aosp android/output/` then build/envsetup.sh; lunch aosp_hammerhead-userdebug; make -j4
[19:30] <ogra_> i think that pulls the deb from launchpad during the build
[19:31] <ogra_> (not sure though, you should be able to tell by the logs you produced during build)
[19:31] <ultimatetux> ogra_, yeah I'll go through that
[19:32] <ultimatetux> ogra_, so how can I tell where apps are? like where's the Phone app binaries/sources for example!
[19:32] <ogra_> the phone app is a deb ...
[19:32] <ogra_> bfiller might be able to point you to the source
[19:33] <lotuspsychje> popey: just tested on flo r226 and devel-proposed here and screens working
[19:33] <ogra_> (there are three or four apps that are debs ... the rest is click packages ... phone and  contacts are still deb i think)
[19:33] <ultimatetux> ogra_, till we know where's the source, it gets installed through wily-preinstalled-touch-armhf.tar.gz ?
[19:33] <ogra_> lotuspsychje, deve-proposed is wily ...
[19:33] <bfiller> ultimatetux: source is in lp:dialer-app
[19:34] <ogra_> ultimatetux, yes
[19:34] <ogra_> and there you got your answer :)
[19:34] <bfiller> ultimatetux: on the phone it's in /usr/share/dialer-app
[19:34] <lotuspsychje> ogra_: yep
[19:34] <ultimatetux> bfiller, thanks :)
[19:35] <bfiller> ultimatetux: np
[19:35] <ultimatetux> bfiller, so if I wanna do some code alterations, I'll have to rebuild the dialer-app, generate a new deb file, then reinstall the whole  wily-preinstalled-touch-armhf.tar.gz ?
[19:36] <bfiller> ultimatetux: depends what you want to change
[19:36] <ultimatetux> bfiller, or there's a way to just install the new deb?
[19:36] <bfiller> ultimatetux: if you just need to modify qml you can make the mods right in place on the device and restart the dialer
[19:37] <ultimatetux> bfiller, I thought the rootfs is mounted as ro?
[19:37] <bfiller> ultimatetux: if you need to modify c/c++ code, then yes you'll need to rebuild the deb (or binary) and then install it
[19:37] <bfiller> ultimatetux: it is ro by default but you can change that
[19:37] <ultimatetux> bfiller, of course
[19:38] <ultimatetux> bfiller, that would be through the wily-preinstalled-touch-armhf.tar.gz right?
[19:39] <bfiller> ultimatetux: to make the root fs rw you could run "sudo touch /userdata/.writable_image" on the device and reboot or run "phablet-config writable-image" on your desktop connected via adb
[19:41] <ultimatetux> bfiller, didn't know that
[19:42] <ogra_> or to make that not as intrusive: sudo mount -o remount,rw / ... make your changes ... sudo mount -o remount,ro /
[19:42] <ultimatetux> ogra_, last time that didn't work but will give it a shot as well
[19:43] <ultimatetux> bfiller, one of the tasks I have is replacing a call's audio traffic with a wav/ogg file.. is that possible?
[19:44] <ultimatetux> bfiller, I mean once a call got established
[19:45] <bfiller> ultimatetux: not sure about that, awe or rsalveti might be able to answer that
[19:46] <ogra_> that sounnds more like a telephony-service task than a dialer-app one
[19:47] <ultimatetux> ogra_, I thought the dialer-app the once responsible over the call establishment! or it just invokes the service?
[19:48] <ogra_> i think it is just UI that talks to the telephony-service backend (i might be wrong though, that is how i imagine it :) )
[19:49] <awe> ultimatetux, when you say replace a call's audio traffic, do you mean in real-time?
[19:49] <awe> and bi-directional?
[19:50] <ultimatetux> awe,  yes
[19:51] <ultimatetux> awe, exactly
[19:51] <awe> hmmm... unfortunately that'll probably require surgery on the device tarball side of things, as I believe we just use the HAL to switch audio profiles
[19:52] <ogra_> oh, that will be quite an advanced task then :)
[19:52] <ogra_> (guessing you want to control that from the ubuntu side)
[19:52] <awe> ogra_, indeed
[19:53] <ultimatetux> awe, all over HAL ?
[19:54] <awe> ultimatetux, I believe the HAL is just used to switch audio profiles when a call begins/ends
[19:54] <awe> pretty sure this is handled in the telephony-service
[19:55] <awe> again, RIL doesn't expose any audio at all, it's purely a control mechanism
[19:55] <ultimatetux> awe, RIL ?
[19:55] <awe> Radio Interface Layer
[19:55] <awe> the protocol we use to talk to rild
[19:55] <awe> which runs in the lxc container
[19:55] <awe> and is provided by the OEM/ODM
[19:55] <ogra_> ... and controls the modem
[19:56] <awe> ultimatetux, unfortunately I have to leave now for a bit; bbl
[19:57] <ultimatetux> awe, alright
[19:57] <ultimatetux> awe, catch you when you're back
[19:57] <ultimatetux> ogra_, its a bit fishy ha!
[19:57] <ogra_> well, it spans exactly across the most complex bits of the system
[19:57] <ogra_> (the stuff you want to do)
[19:58] <ogra_> interfacing with the container ... controlling bits of the HAL from the ubuntu side, extracting data from inside the container ...
[19:58] <ogra_> (or injecting data ... )
[19:59]  * ogra_ doubts there are many harder tasks you could do on our setup :) 
[20:00] <john-mcaleely> slangasek, can I draw your attention to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-system-image/+bug/1465828
[20:00] <john-mcaleely> comment and triage appreciated.
[20:00] <ultimatetux> ogra_, I need to feel comfortable with the system at first to be able to do that
[20:01] <ultimatetux> ogra_, probably I would give the same task a shot over aosp
[20:01] <ogra_> ultimatetux, well, *I* wouldnt feel comfortable with the task you plan :) and i know a lot about both sides of the system (a lot less about the android side though)
[20:03] <cedian_linux> mariogrip still fails to build on 14.04
[20:04] <cedian_linux> And sturmflut2 I might be late but I meant tethering
[20:04] <slangasek> john-mcaleely: I understood from sil2100 that this issue was already triaged and in progress
[20:05] <john-mcaleely> slangasek, ah, well, confusion of the day. I'm not, and I'm maintaining the internal incident report :-)
[20:05] <john-mcaleely> bug # please, and I'll dupe
[20:05] <slangasek> ok
[20:05] <slangasek> I don't know if there was another bug number
[20:05] <slangasek> I just know sil2100 was already discussing it with barry
[20:05] <sil2100> john-mcaleely: hey, yes ;) It was already identified, no bug for that but the right s-i is in a silo already
[20:05] <john-mcaleely> that sounds like a bug :-)
[20:05] <sil2100> barry and I are aware and are working on that ;0
[20:05] <john-mcaleely> now you have a bug to keep you company :-)
[20:06] <slangasek> sil2100: did you get a chance yet to look if there are any other packages missing from vivid that had landed in rtm?
[20:06] <slangasek> (ubuntu-rtm/14.09, I mean)
[20:06]  * barry was quite surprised
[20:07] <sil2100> Not completely yet, was side-tracked for a while
[20:07] <sil2100> Will get back to that shortly
[20:08] <barry> slangasek: we did discuss earlier whether to sru si 2.5.1 into vivid, and decided it wasn't worth it
[20:08] <slangasek> barry: we discussed an SRU into vivid of 3.0
[20:08] <slangasek> barry: the fact that a newer version of s-i was in ubuntu-rtm/14.09 than in vivid was never on my radar...
[20:09] <barry> slangasek: that too.  much bigger diff of course.  i'm trying to get 3.0.1 landed in wily now, which will allow mvo to unfork for snappy. then we can decide whether 3.0.1 goes into vivid
[20:09] <ultimatetux> ogra_, I hear you
[20:10] <barry> slangasek: what's the current recommendation about dep8 tests hitting the intarwebs (specifically system-image.ubuntu.com)?
[20:10] <ultimatetux> ogra_, if it was for me I wouldn't have done it, however I must admit its teasing me
[20:10] <slangasek> barry: for the avoidance of doubt, it's a hard and fast rule that any fixes landing in a stable branch (whether that's an SRU, or ubuntu-rtm/14.09, or vivid stable-phone-overlay) must also land in trunk
[20:11] <slangasek> barry: system-image.ubuntu.com is technically not intarwebs, it's on the Canonical network.  So by /policy/ it should be allowed to access this, but that policy may not be implemented on the firewalls today
[20:12] <barry> slangasek: right, so re: vivid, 3.0.1 in wily first
[20:12] <slangasek> barry: OTOH, my understanding is that in practice the test runners regressed from Prodstack to pitti's one-off machines as part of the PS4 meltdown, so you should actually be ok running anything in autopkgtests right now that worked previously
[20:12] <barry> slangasek: i don't really care if it's sru'd in vivid or not.  whatever phnappy wants is fine by me
[20:13] <slangasek> barry: *first* is fixing the critical regression in phased-update support on the shipping phones; 3.0.1 in wily is second ;)
[20:13] <barry> slangasek: i was considering re-enabling the smoketests for si 3.0.1.  they were disabled for 3.0 re: the previous discussion, so it sounds like it *might* work to enable them, but only by accident
[20:13] <barry> slangasek: sil2100 is getting 2.5.1 into the overlay, so that should solve that problem
[20:14] <slangasek> barry: well, I think the previous discussion led you astray and I meant to revisit that with you.  The policy should be that hitting Canonical services as part of the autopkgtests, in cases where we need the production data, should be permitted
[20:15] <barry> slangasek: ok.  i would definitely *like* them to be re-enabled (i'd also like to see if i can get the reboot tests working now)
[20:16] <ogra_> slangasek, and the fact that rtm was newer shouldnt have to be on your radar...  since we had a dual landing policy for rtm back then ... it just didnt happen as it was supposed to
[20:22] <slangasek> barry: the firewall policy may need to catch up, but I think you should re-enable them
[20:22] <barry> slangasek: ack
[20:32] <taiebot> nik90: Can i debug the alarm i got awaken twice at 5h45 in the last two days while my alarm is set at 6h45. Tried to delete the alarm and re-set it yesterday. but today alarm triggered at 5h45. I had to change the system time and date recently. BTW i am on willy
[20:40] <dobey> taiebot: are you in the uk?
[20:40] <taiebot> Yep
[20:40] <dobey> taiebot: sounds like it's going off at UTC instead of BST?
[20:40] <dobey> charles: ^^ any ideas?
[20:40] <taiebot> dobey: i did test date on terminal and it says BST
[20:41] <dobey> taiebot: right. that's the system time
[20:41] <dobey> taiebot: but seems like the alarm is set for 6:45 UTC for some reason
[20:41] <nik90> taiebot: what time does indicator-datetime show?
[20:42] <charles> taiebot, could you pastebin your tasks.ics containing the alarm?
[20:42] <nik90> taiebot: second pls attach the the tasks.ics file which can be found in the clock app local directory at .local/share/com.ubuntu.clock/**
[20:42] <taiebot> nik90 correct time. However it does not have the little icon of the alarm clock
[20:42] <charles> taiebot, ~/.local/share/evolution/tasks/some-long-unique-dirname/tasks.ics
[20:43] <nik90> oops sry..correct location is ^^
[20:43] <taiebot> just to remind everyone i am on willy..
[20:43] <charles> taiebot, also $ dpkg -s indicator-datetime to get the version of the datetime indicator
[20:43] <nik90> charles: whatever goes into willy parallely lands in vivid+overlay PPA?
[20:45] <charles> nik90, I don't think that's correct
[20:46] <charles> nik90, but you'd be better off asking someone closer to the overlay management in #ubuntu-ci-eng
[20:47] <nik90> charles: ah ok...I figured you need to keep both distros in sync otherwise one might miss patches when we later switch to it. Otherwise debugging issues in wily can be confusing if you know for certain you fixed it vivid.
[20:47] <taiebot> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11727144/
[20:47] <taiebot> for dpkg s
[20:49] <taiebot> mmm i have two folders in my path
[20:50] <charles> taiebot, actually the date stamp on the version you've got listed there shows me the problem (I think)
[20:50] <taiebot> charles nik90 i have two path available in some-long-unique-dirname ~/.local/share/evolution/tasks/some-long-unique-dirname/tasks.ics
[20:50] <charles> taiebot, this is in a off-the-shelf wily install?
[20:50] <taiebot> yep
[20:50] <charles> fff
[20:52] <charles> taiebot, this sounds a lot like the bug fixed in http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~indicator-applet-developers/indicator-datetime/trunk.15.04/revision/414, I thought it was in Wily already but if not I'll get it in there ASAP
[20:54] <charles> taiebot, if you tend to idle on freenode I'll give you a ping when it lands
[20:55] <dobey> nik90: no, indicators have separate branches, so everything doesn't necessarily land in both at the same time
[20:56] <nik90> dobey: yeah I know..I believe this same method was applied when we had vivid and utopic branches as well..but I also remember seeing 2 MPs one against rtm (utopic at the time) and against vivid for instance.
[20:57] <dobey> nik90: yes, we try to do that usually, but sometimes things land in only one place for various reasons (pressure to get something fixed for an OTA for example)
[20:58] <nik90> dobey: true
[21:04] <taiebot> nik90 charles just in case my first task.ics https://pastebin.mozilla.org/ and my second  https://pastebin.mozilla.org/
[21:08] <ignacio> Hi everyone
[21:09] <nik90> ooh first time seeing a paste.mozilla.org link
[21:11] <SturmFlut> Yay, my name was mentioned in a Landing team e-mail!
[21:12] <ogra_> SturmFlut, congrats !!
[21:12] <ogra_> :)
[21:20] <SturmFlut> ogra_: So according to bug 1465829 this system-image breakage actually impacts the manufacturing process, like we feared this morning?
[21:20] <SturmFlut> Err bug 1465828
[21:21] <ogra_> SturmFlut, the image wont be used in factory i think, so we should be fine
[21:23] <john-mcaleely> factory timing != ota timing. so lucky this time
[21:24] <ogra_> yeah
[21:26] <jgdx> kenvandine, awesome, thanks. Was just about to!
[21:30] <SturmFlut> john-mcaleely: I'm usually not happy about spotting critical bugs, but this time I am
[21:30] <john-mcaleely> indeed, thank you SturmFlut
[21:30] <SturmFlut> \o/
[21:30]  * ogra_ is always happy about spotting critical bugs ... as long as i dont need to fix them :P 
[21:31] <DonkeyHotei> that's why no one has fixed video playback on the n5
[21:32] <ogra_> is it broken ?
[21:33] <DonkeyHotei> it was always broken
[21:33] <ogra_> well, someone who runs ubuntu on it should then fix it i guess ...
[21:33] <DonkeyHotei> if you have an mp4 video file for example it simply won't play
[21:34]  * brobostigon has spotted quite a few bugs in just 24 hours of using ubuntu touch.
[21:34] <k1l> brobostigon: i hope you file them
[21:34] <SturmFlut> The story is actually even more bizarre. I was at the train station this morning and the train was cancelled, so the next train was completely overcrowded, and I thought "Well, I'll take the train after that one, but now I've got 25 minutes to spare. Hmmm, enough time to finally find out how this phased update stuff works exactly"
[21:35] <ogra_> brobostigon, there are a few :) ... make sure you file all the new ones
[21:35] <brobostigon> k1l: i have them all noted, and will, yes.
[21:35] <SturmFlut> If the train hadn't been canceled just today, I would have never looked at it
[21:35] <brobostigon> ogra_: i will yes.
[21:35] <ogra_> :D
[21:35] <brobostigon> :)
[21:36] <brobostigon> and some are partly, bug/feature fixes, if that makes sense.
[21:36] <ogra_> SturmFlut, fate bug :)
[21:37] <ogra_> brobostigon, sure ... even annoyances
[21:37] <brobostigon> like google calencar sycing, not being able to sync all calendars, and not showing them as options either.
[21:37] <john-mcaleely> late trains aren't always bad
[21:37] <brobostigon> calendar*
[21:38] <mcphail> brobostigon: that one is filed already :)
[21:38] <ogra_> brobostigon, i think there is actually a bug open for that
[21:38] <colbyf> probably a silly question but I cant seem to be able to change the order of the scopes
[21:38] <brobostigon> mcphail: cool, :)
[21:39] <ogra_> colbyf, not silly at all, it is a bit hard to discover ... swipe from the bottom to reveal the scope manager ... press and hold, then you can re-order (IIRC)
[21:39] <brobostigon> and receipt of new emails, not being notified of.
[21:39] <brobostigon> ie, gmail.
[21:39] <ogra_> brobostigon, i think gmail is supposed to send notifications nowadays
[21:39] <mcphail> brobostigon: the beauty of Ubuntu is you get to see the bugs getting fixed, and get to poke people in here if they don't
[21:39] <brobostigon> ogra_: it doesnt.
[21:39] <ogra_> brobostigon, dekko cant do it yet
[21:40] <ogra_> (i saw the feature being shown for gmail, but i'm not sure if it actually landed in an image yet)
[21:40] <ogra_> there was some raving about it on G+
[21:40] <brobostigon> mcphail: i design car control systems, i would love to have a poke at the code as well.
[21:41] <ogra_> brobostigon, oh, you should take a look at snappy :)
[21:41] <mcphail> brobostigon: you will be welcomed with open arms
[21:41] <brobostigon> for prototype cars.
[21:41] <ogra_> (snappy is the future of the phone and the converged desktop)
[21:41] <brobostigon> ogra_: snappy?
[21:41] <colbyf> thankyou sooo much ogra_ :)
[21:41] <brobostigon> thank you mcphail
[21:41] <ogra_> brobostigon, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/
[21:42] <ogra_> (this is admittedly still a bit focused on appliances and cloud ... but work is going on to make snappy based phone and desktop installs)
[21:44] <SturmFlut> ogra_: Snappy needs a recognizable mascot, something like that Android robot
[21:44] <brobostigon> ogra_: so this is similer to the packaging within haiku, that the app and depdendencies are sandboxed in the same memory, and run directly from there?
[21:45] <SturmFlut> ogra_: Please don't say "crocodile"
[21:45] <ogra_> SturmFlut, yeah, we currently have "cubes" :P
[21:45] <SturmFlut> Hmm, interesting
[21:46] <ogra_> brobostigon, hmm, i dont know about haiku ... effectively it is the next evolution of our phone setup
[21:46] <ogra_> *next evolution step
[21:46] <brobostigon> ogra_: haiku is an OSS version of the system that used to be BeOS.
[21:46] <ogra_> future phones will be based on snappy
[21:46] <ogra_> ah
[21:47] <SturmFlut> BeOS was so great
[21:47] <ogra_> i used BeOS ... but back then i didnt dig into it on a tech level
[21:47] <brobostigon> and they have just added, a modern dependency aware packing system, in the last year.
[21:47] <ogra_> heh
[21:47] <ogra_> well, we are just getting rid of that :)
[21:47] <ogra_> 10 years of dependency pain is enough :)
[21:48] <brobostigon> i have dont testeing anf files bugs on haiku as well, almost since they started.
[21:48] <brobostigon> filed*
[21:48] <brobostigon> well, i think good dependency nagotiation, is a very good thing.
[21:49] <ogra_> not needing it is better
[21:49] <DonkeyHotei> [Tue 2015-06-16 02:39:47 PM PDT] <mcphail> brobostigon: the beauty of Ubuntu is you get to see the bugs getting fixed, and get to poke people in here if they don't <--- there is apparently no one left to poke about n5 video playback
[21:49] <ogra_> DonkeyHotei, N5 was never a supported device ... some community person needs to fix it
[21:50] <brobostigon> and for haiku this is alitte easier, as they only have less than a 1000 packages, rather than dependency nagotiation the millions of packages in the debian repos.
[21:52] <ogra_> DonkeyHotei, (or some canonical dev who uses it, understands the issue and is willing to invest his/her spare time)
[21:52] <dobey> ogra_: unfortunately, i don't think ogra_ is using ubuntu on an n5 :)
[21:53] <SturmFlut> DonkeyHotei: I would like to add that lots of things on current phones are implemented by binary blobs, so even if there is somebody who wants to work on specific Nexus5 issues, stuff like video decoding is very hard to debug.
[21:53] <ogra_> dobey, i have an N5 ... with android on it ... booted it once in the last 12 months or so
[21:53] <dobey> right
[21:53] <ogra_> i use it to check stuff on android if i have to
[21:54] <SturmFlut> I use mine with Android 4.4.4 and it is such a horrible device, even more so with Android 5
[21:54] <dobey> ?
[21:54] <ogra_> mine still runs some 4.x version
[21:54] <ogra_> i actually like the HW
[21:54] <dobey> it's ok, i just wish it was as small as my old phones
[21:54] <ogra_> looks like a slightly to big bq4.5 :)
[21:55] <dobey> the e4.5 is a slightly too big e4.5
[21:55] <ogra_> lol, not really
[21:55]  * brobostigon has 4 differnt OS's on his nexus4, cm12.1, droid 5.1.1, sailfish os and ubuntu touch.
[21:55] <ogra_> i wouldnt want it smaller ... it is exactly the size where i can still reach the top left corner
[21:56] <ogra_> (with some streching)
[21:56] <dobey> about 4-4.2" is the perfect size
[21:56] <dobey> 4.5+ is too big
[21:56] <ogra_> i would like more ram, and higher resolution in the same case :)
[21:57] <ogra_> oh, and LTE with US bands so the dual SIM would actually make sense for me
[21:57]  * brobostigon was one of the nutters, that multibooted as many OS's as he could on a machine, and made it work, and showed his professor.
[21:57] <k1l> i want a modern nexu4 with open bootloader and no glass backside
[21:58] <ogra_> and probably 100g lighter :)
[21:58] <SturmFlut> ogra_: Most N5 problems are caused by Android itself, but the hardware has its own issues, like weak radios and a crappy battery.
[21:59] <ogra_> ah, yeah, thats true
[22:04] <k1l> btw: is the desktop-next iso a snappy iso now?
[22:06] <SturmFlut> I specifically bought the Nexus 5 because there was a promise that it would always get the latest Android images before all others, and that this would be one of the reference phones for the platform itself, so everything would work as perfect as possible
[22:06] <ogra_> k1l, i dont think there will be isos ... it will be a dd'able image rather
[22:07] <SturmFlut> Now not only did everybody else get Android 5 before it was released for the N5, it is also so riddled with bugs that I can't even use it, and they are up to Android 5.1.1 by now
[22:07] <k1l> i am fine with something i can try in live mode or in vbox. last time i asked it was: we stop the isos and start with the "new snappy ones" in some weeks.
[22:08] <SturmFlut> I'll never again buy anything from Google
[22:08] <ogra_> SturmFlut, yay, marketing :)
[22:08] <brobostigon> thats also one reason why i kepy my G1 for so long, and only moved onto the nexus4, after about a year.
[22:08] <k1l> SturmFlut: yeah, google did loose the focus on having hardware that is well supported. lg did a bad job there
[22:09] <brobostigon> the nexus4 does a very good job jere.
[22:09] <SturmFlut> A couple of additional fixes and the E4.5 will be a better device than the N5, the only thing I would really miss is 4G.
[22:10]  * brobostigon has only had hspa+
[22:12] <SturmFlut> 4G has become so fast and cheap, I often forget to switch to WiFi at home and don't even notice it. Very often 4G is faster than my ADSL.
[22:12] <mcphail> fast and cheap? you're not in provincial UK, I take it?
[22:13] <ogra_> mcphail, well, you guys get fiber to your houses instead ... stop complaining
[22:13] <mcphail> Fibre stops at the street next to mine :(
[22:13] <brobostigon> infact, here in the uk, lte/4g is still insanly expensive.
[22:13] <ogra_> oh, thats sad ...
[22:14] <ogra_> here in germany the average is still 16Mbit DSL i think
[22:15] <mcphail> I'm just about to "upgrade" to a "guaranteed minimum" 3.3Mb connection. Whoo - streaming with only a bit of buffering :)
[22:15] <SturmFlut> I live in the centre of a big german city and VDSL stops two streets from mine, ADSL 16k is all I get
[22:16]  * ogra_ has 2M SDSL ... 
[22:16] <ogra_> pondering to add a sattelite connection
[22:16] <mcphail> SturmFlut: that _really_ sucks
[22:21] <SturmFlut> mcphail: If 4G gets a little cheaper, it might reach the point where 4G + additional data volume is about as expensive as the unmetered ADSL connection for me, but 4G gives me 30 MBit/s on average and often goes up to 100.
[22:23] <mcphail> If we relied on 4G, the kids would have streamed-through the data allowance in an evening
[22:45] <dobey> lol
[22:58] <mariogrip> how can i stop the session-watchdog from rebooting my system at "hit respawn limit"
[23:00] <mariogrip> ogra_: I found the problem ^
[23:01] <muka> how come there is no more terminal app?
[23:01] <ogra_> mariogrip, just move the upstart job out of the way ... somewhere in /usr/share/upstart/sessions/ ... note thoug that the watchdog only kicks in if one of the UI services has fatal crashes
[23:02] <ogra_> so what you see there is just fallout of a bigger prob
[23:02] <mcphail> muka: there is. I'm using it to type this
[23:02] <ogra_> muka, i see it in the store
[23:02] <muka> I alway had it installed never had to reinstalled.
[23:02] <mariogrip> Apr  3 03:23:32 ubuntu-phablet session-watchdog: 'scope-registry' (instance '') hit respawn limit - asking logind to reboot
[23:03] <mcphail> muka: I've found the terminal app sometimes disappears after system updates
[23:03] <muka> oh, ok. it's a first one for me.
[23:03] <ogra_> mcphail, worth a bug ...
[23:03] <ogra_> that should definitely not ahppen
[23:03] <mcphail> ogra_: can't reproduce it reliably
[23:03] <ogra_> (has surely never happened to me)
[23:04] <mcphail> ogra_: when I say "system updates", I really mean "Once on system update but every so often on changing channel"
[23:04] <ogra_> ah
[23:04] <ogra_> yeah, i dont change channels usually
[23:05] <ogra_> (only for the renaming i did recently)
[23:05] <muka> I only updated my system last night. I did not change channel.
[23:05] <mcphail> muka: I lost termianl after OTA3.5. Was fine on OTA4
[23:06] <mariogrip> ogra_: It booted :D yeey but i have to look at the scope-registry why it's crashing
[23:06] <mcphail> muka: have you ever used a different channel, or have you been on default OTA all the time?
[23:07] <muka> I'm on dev channel for last 4-6 months.
[23:07] <mcphail> muka: I was wondering if it was because some channels bundle the terminal app by default, but RTM doesn't
[23:09] <ogra_> mariogrip, yeah
[23:10] <muka> I'm not on RTM channel
[23:10] <mcphail> I have the terminal app pinned to the launcher. On one occasion, the icon was replaced by a blank square. Led me to wonder whether this was actually a problem with the .desktop hooks rather than the app being lost
[23:11] <ogra_> rtm is dead and gone :)
[23:11] <ogra_> luckily
[23:11] <mcphail> ogra_: not called rtm any more?
[23:11] <ogra_> rc :)
[23:12] <ogra_> rtm was its own distro ... effectively a fork of ubuntu back then
[23:12] <ogra_> which caused a lot of probs ...
[23:12] <ogra_> with the switch to vivid you are actually now using ubuntu
[23:12] <mcphail> ooh
[23:14] <mcphail> should I notice a difference in updates/stability/frequency of bug fixes?
[23:14] <ogra_> not really ... oon the user side it isnt as significant as on the developer side
[23:15] <mcphail> will fixes in wily percolate down more easily?
[23:15] <ogra_> if there was a security fix in utopic you had to snyc it into rtm as a developer ... with the vivid base thats automatically available now for example
[23:15] <mcphail> nice
[23:17] <ogra_> wily is snappy playground for convergence ... not planned to end up on any phones
[23:18] <ogra_> (and gets no QA either )
[23:18] <mcphail> so what's the roadmap for phone?
[23:19] <ogra_> vivid + overlay PPA tile after wily ... then in the 16.04 cycle, move to snappy and polish convergence
[23:19] <ogra_> *til after
[23:19] <mcphail> sounds like another rtm :)
[23:19] <ogra_> expt that it is using an actual release :)
[23:20] <mcphail> aah well. Was hoping wily was going to fix bluetooth for me. Looks as if it'll be another year
[23:20] <ogra_> nah
[23:21] <ogra_> vivid will get fixes all the time
[23:21] <ogra_> but not introduce new breakage ...
[23:21] <mcphail> yes - but I think the whole stack was planned to change in wily
[23:21] <mcphail> doubt that will be backported
[23:21] <ogra_> while wily will see planned and unplanned breakages
[23:22] <ogra_> why not ?
[23:22] <ogra_> (i dont know the actual plans for BT since i moved out of the phone development, but if it is possible i assume it will be pushed to the PPA)
[23:22] <mcphail> was told bluez5 wasn't coming to vivid. Would be unusual to upgrade a stack without changing release, wouldn't it?
[23:23] <ogra_> nah it would only be for phones in the PPA ... wouldnt change vivid itself
[23:24] <mcphail> well, there is hope then. Of course, don't know if bluez5 will connect to my car any better than current... :)
[23:24] <mariogrip> ogra_: Found the problem, it didn't have permission to home/phablet ...... Now it works!!! Awesome!
[23:25] <ogra_> mariogrip, yay, congrats
[23:25] <mariogrip> debugging is fun :D always fun!