[15:00] <pitti> o/
[15:01] <barry> o/
[15:01] <sil2100> \o
[15:01] <infinity> I refuse to admit I'm awake.
[15:02] <robru> i arthur
[15:02]  * slangasek waves
[15:03] <slangasek> #startmeeting
[15:03] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 18 15:03:22 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:03] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[15:03] <slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
[15:03] <slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti)
[15:03] <slangasek> doko jodh caribou robru bdmurray pitti barry cyphermox sil2100 slangasek stgraber infinity
[15:04] <slangasek> doko: hi, around?
[15:05] <pitti> is jodh even still officially in the team?
[15:05] <slangasek> hmm, and we have a change to this list since last time...
[15:05] <barry> slangasek: i think you need to update your shuf :)
[15:05] <slangasek> next time should be:
[15:06] <slangasek> echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti
[15:06] <slangasek> yep
[15:06] <slangasek> nd no caribou here today
[15:06] <slangasek> robru:
[15:07] <robru> one sec
[15:07] <robru> * CI Train:
[15:07] <robru>  - added script for scanning overlay PPA versions and comparing to wily archive; ensure that matching version numbers have matching binary hashes
[15:07] <robru> * CI Train Charm:
[15:07] <robru>  - stop clobbering creds with empty files if creds misconfigured
[15:07] <robru>  - add relation for bileto
[15:07] <robru> * Bileto:
[15:07] <robru>  - fixed some postgres-specific bugs
[15:07] <robru> * Bileto Charm:
[15:07] <robru>  - add basenode support
[15:07] <robru>  - add relation for ci-train
[15:07] <robru> * Train mojo Spec:
[15:07] <robru>  - added relation between ci-train and bileto
[15:07] <robru>  - various iterations on postgres configuration
[15:07] <robru> (done)
[15:08] <sil2100> robru the magician, charming with his mojo!
[15:08] <robru> heh
[15:09] <slangasek> bdmurray:
[15:09] <slangasek> robru: clobbering creds with empty files> I don't suppose that helps the postgres issues at all?
[15:10] <bdmurray> continued to work on improvements to apport-retrace to check launchpad for packages not available in archive or on ddebs.u.c
[15:10] <bdmurray> worked with pitti to get my apport use-lp branch merged (done!)
[15:10] <bdmurray> worked on hacking in ppa support to apport-retrace
[15:10] <bdmurray> pushed an apport branch (with a PPA hack) for the retracers to use
[15:10] <bdmurray> updated daisy config for armhf 15.04 retracers for overlay ppa
[15:10] <bdmurray> submitted RT to have daisy / apport updated in staging
[15:10] <robru> slangasek: no that's unrelated, that's on the ci-train side. #is doesn't have creds stored the same way we do in staging and so the charm was clobbering live creds with empty files.
[15:10] <bdmurray> investigation into the right way to add ppa support to apport
[15:10] <bdmurray> SRU verifications of python-pip bug fixing LP: #1324391 (fail, then pass)
[15:10] <bdmurray> discussed with mvo python-apt origin information and PPAs
[15:10] <bdmurray> discussion with slangasek regarding overlay-ppa and old packages
[15:10] <bdmurray> investigation into a phased-updater OOPS
[15:10] <bdmurray> short week as I was in Rochester!
[15:10]  * doko is a bit late ...
[15:10] <bdmurray> ✔ done
[15:11] <slangasek> doko: hi, your turn
[15:11] <sil2100> slangasek: that thing was probably related to the train outage we had on Friday when the cred files went missing
[15:11] <slangasek> ok
[15:12] <doko> five me 5min
[15:12] <slangasek> alright then. pitti:
[15:12] <pitti> systemd:
[15:12] <pitti>  - create script to build debs for current systemd upstream trunk (into PPA, and running all autopkgtests locally), for a more proper trunk CI
[15:12] <pitti>  - fix various build system and udev regressions in trunk
[15:12] <pitti>  - enable net.ifnames persistant network names by default
[15:12] <pitti> autopkgtest:
[15:12] <pitti>  - set up ProdStack/Canonistack with IS for cloud-based autopkgtest running, and create autopkgtest cloud runner PoC
[15:12] <pitti>  - various small improvements to adt-run
[15:12] <pitti>  - revive armhf/ppc64el worker nodes after outage
[15:12] <pitti> misc:
[15:12] <pitti>  - review and land bdmurray's apport branch for downloading older sources/debs from LP
[15:12] <pitti>  - build and test fresh vivid langpacks
[15:12] <pitti>  - postgresql: prepare new upstream security/bug fix releases for all supported Ubuntu releases
[15:12] <pitti>  - reproduce and analyze misconfigured/broken encrypted swap in LVM install mode (#1453738); in progress
[15:12] <pitti>  - various bug fixes in open-scsi, udisks
[15:12] <pitti> plan:
[15:12] <pitti>  - systemd 221 is around the corner; unlike the previous two versions this should now be a breeze to land thanks to all the new CI
[15:12] <pitti>  - continue working on cloud-based autopkgtest runner
[15:12] <pitti>  - find some time to look into networkd integration with resolvconf and ifup.d/
[15:12] <pitti> ^D
[15:13] <barry> doko or me?
[15:13] <slangasek> barry: go ahead, it hasn't been 5 minutes yet :)
[15:13] <pitti> barry: 5 mins aren't over yet
[15:13] <barry> sounds like a monty python sketch...
[15:13] <barry> short week due to pto
[15:13] <barry> debuntu: debian bug #776026; python-nose-exclude 0.2.0-4; zope.security 4.0.3-1; virtualenv 13.0.3-1 (ongoing), wheel 0.24.0-2; python-pip 1.5.4-1ubuntu3 for trusty;
[15:13] <barry> si: 2.5.1 to the overlay; struggling with landing 3.0.1 in wily via train (and getting derailed)
[15:14] <barry> started working on the python3.5 transition plan
[15:14] <barry> other: upgrade bisecting and other debugging for LP: #1464365
[15:14] <barry> --done--
[15:14] <doko> - openjdk-9 fixes for ppc64el and arm64
[15:14] <doko> - updated GCC 5 transition plan
[15:14] <doko> - openjdk maintainer interviews
[15:14] <doko> - preparing uploads for gcc 4.8, 4.9 and 5.x release candidates
[15:14] <doko> - started doing some merges
[15:14] <doko> - finally gcc-4.8 and binutils SRU's in trusty, uploaded cross packages
[15:14] <doko> - uploaded python3.4 SRU's
[15:14] <doko> (done)
[15:15] <sil2100> cyphermox: ping
[15:15] <cyphermox> sil2100: I'm on vacation, not actually there :)
[15:15] <slangasek> cyphermox is still on vacation
[15:15] <sil2100> Ah, ok :)
[15:15] <slangasek> sil2100:
[15:15] <sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
[15:15] <sil2100> - Prepare OTA-4 release notes
[15:15] <sil2100> - OTA-4 release:
[15:15] <sil2100>   * Copying images and setting auto-phasing for the period of approx one day
[15:15] <sil2100>   * Preparing community OTA-4 images, promoting those after basic QA
[15:15] <sil2100>   * Promoting ubuntu-developer images
[15:15] <sil2100>   * Preparing non-delta images for arale
[15:15] <sil2100> - Identifying the system-image situation, preparing landing
[15:15] <sil2100> - Leading the RTM status meeting
[15:15] <sil2100> - Updating documentation regarding package twins
[15:15] <sil2100> - Further work on commitlog generation
[15:15] <sil2100> - Coordinating the Unity8 big landing
[15:15] <sil2100> - Lack of sleep and overall tiredness for the whole week
[15:16] <sil2100> Holiday tomorrow (Friday the 19th)
[15:16] <sil2100> (done)
[15:16] <infinity> Do you celebrate every Friday the 19th?
[15:17] <slangasek> it's a very famous movie in Poland
[15:17] <infinity> slangasek: (you're up)
[15:18] <slangasek>  * helping unblock the libnettle transition; found blockage due to a mir-related API change that was causing gst-plugins-bad1.0 to FTBFS as of vivid release, working to unwind that through bug #1465958, now waiting for a platform-api landing
[15:18] <slangasek>  * post mortem for the various issues we've run into over the past two months with the overlay ppa not being as featureful as the derived distribution out of the box
[15:18] <slangasek>  * closing in on a decision for the Java maintainer role
[15:18] <slangasek>  * new job opening in the process of being posted, should be visible tomorrow
[15:18] <slangasek> (I know)
[15:18] <slangasek> (done)
[15:18] <slangasek> stgraber:
[15:18] <stgraber>  - Was out on Friday. Now back in Montreal.
[15:18] <stgraber>  - LXC/LXD
[15:18] <stgraber>    - Working on LXD socket activation systemd units.
[15:18] <stgraber>    - Made a first version of the LXD snap.
[15:18] <stgraber>    - Working on the CI infrastructure for LXC-related projects a bit.
[15:18] <stgraber>    - Spent quite a lot of time debugging a weird race condition in LXD.
[15:18] <stgraber>    - Code reviews, bug triaging, other admin paperwork
[15:18] <stgraber>  - Alpha-1
[15:18] <stgraber>    - Some prepwork for alpha-1, mostly sorting out nusakan <-> tracker issues
[15:18] <stgraber> (done)
[15:18] <infinity> - Dealing with several transitions in wily
[15:18] <infinity> - Not one, but *two* emergency kernel security updates
[15:18] <infinity> - Fixed kernel autopkgtesting
[15:18] <infinity> - General AA/SRU stuff
[15:18] <infinity> - Looking into kernel changes we might need to build armhf on arm64
[15:19] <infinity> - Sobbing uncontrollably over the loss of mvo
[15:19] <infinity> - Mitigating the above with the 'yay pitti' happy dance
[15:19] <infinity> - debian-installer and HWE work
[15:19] <infinity> (done)
[15:19] <stgraber> :)
[15:19] <pitti> ♩ \o/ ♫ ♪
[15:19] <slangasek> infinity: that's to the tune of 'hey mickey', right?
[15:19] <barry> infinity: where's the youtube video of that dance?
[15:20] <pitti> (happy dance for fixing kernel tests)
[15:20] <cyphermox> I think pitti wants to take over UTF-8 summary ending lead. :)
[15:20] <infinity> barry: It's an easter egg in d-i, go find it.
[15:20] <slangasek> heh
[15:20] <slangasek> any questions over status?
[15:20] <barry> infinity: do you have to fix 5 bugs before it reveals itself?
[15:21] <slangasek> oh, and doko's binutis/gcc SRUs got released in trusty
[15:21] <infinity> Yeah, which means we can probably undo a hack in linux-lts-vivid.
[15:21] <slangasek> (only ignoring 3 and 6 autopkgtest regressions respectively)
[15:21]  * infinity makes a note.
[15:22] <doko> autopkgtest regressions for trusty?
[15:22] <slangasek> doko: yes; not caused by either of your SRUs, just caused by letting autopkgtests bitrot for a year in trusty before we started looking at them again
[15:22] <slangasek> some of them being network-related failures
[15:22] <sil2100> slangasek: were you able to make that document with the side-by-side comparison of overlay and derived distro for olli?
[15:23] <slangasek> some being mysql tests that fail because time doesn't stand still and SSL certificates expired
[15:23] <doko> ahh, I see. where can you see these?
[15:23] <slangasek> sil2100: in progress; will be done this morning
[15:23] <pitti> I sent a summary to u-devel@; mostly because of tests relying on quirks/bugs of the null runner which we used back then
[15:23] <sil2100> Thanks!
[15:23] <slangasek> doko: you probably can't get a link to the specific set anymore now that we've released the SRUs; there's nothing that you should need to look at however
[15:24] <slangasek> the most interesting one was a lintian testsuite failure claiming that a binary was now a corrupted elf object - but that error started happening a week *before* binutils was uploaded to trusty-proposed
[15:24] <infinity> pitti: Speaking of, did you want back on ~ubuntu-sru and ~ubuntu-release so you can have a bit more direct control over this madness?
[15:24] <pitti> infinity: I need ~release for that, right?
[15:24] <infinity> pitti: release for devel series, sru for SRUs.
[15:24] <bdmurray> infinity: you are just going to let this new guy on these teams?
[15:25] <infinity> pitti: We split the hints across the teams, just like we split the queues.
[15:25] <infinity> bdmurray: He's emeritus on both teams. :P
[15:25] <bdmurray> infinity: He might have forgotten how to do things!
[15:25] <infinity> That's a chance I'm willing to take.
[15:25] <pitti> I just select all and click "accept"
[15:26] <infinity> Okay, not willing anymore.
[15:26] <cyphermox> pitti: I think you mean select all and click Reject :)
[15:26] <pitti> I'm not yearning for more work, just to manage stuff that's innocently stuck in -proposed a little better
[15:26] <slangasek> heh
[15:27] <slangasek> doko: fwiw if you want an overview of failing autopkgtests, in theory https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Trusty/view/AutoPkgTest/ is some kind of one
[15:27] <infinity> pitti: Team membership doesn't imply forced duties, though it might get you pinged occasionally for help with something.  Anyhow, your call, no one's voluntold into these teams.
[15:27] <doko> slangasek, thanks, not so nice as update_excuses ...
[15:27] <pitti> infinity: right, please add me
[15:27] <stgraber> pitti: select all and click "reject" with "Spite" as the reason, everyone will think you're infinity :)
[15:28] <infinity> slangasek: Did anyone investigate the lintian regression and sort out what it really was?  The last time lintian had a testsuite explosion like that, it really was a (weird) toolchain regression.
[15:28] <slangasek> doko: update_excuses gives you the overview for packages that are in progress. for SRUs that were already accepted, it no longer applies
[15:28] <pitti> oh, we don't have archives for SRUs
[15:28] <pitti> we do have them for devel
[15:29] <infinity> pitti: Reactivated in both.
[15:29] <slangasek> infinity: no.  what I did sort out was that the timing didn't line up with the binutils change, which was what had triggered the test rerun
[15:29] <pitti> actually, I lie: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/proposed-migration/update_excuses/trusty/
[15:29] <pitti> ^ should have all the old excuses?
[15:29] <slangasek> infinity: (nor the gcc change; first lintian test failure was May 4, SRU accepts were May 13-14)
[15:30] <slangasek> pitti: oh, it should? interesting
[15:30] <infinity> slangasek: Sure, timing says it clearly wasn't *that* upload, still would be nice to figure out the cause.  Maybe I'll poke later in my copious free time.
[15:30] <pitti> conveniently un-clickable, but at least there
[15:30] <slangasek> doko: ^^ so there is an archive of the excuses if you really care; but with my SRU hat I already reviewed them and declared them to be false positives
[15:31] <slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
[15:31] <slangasek> anything else?
[15:31] <infinity> Sure.  Since we already hijacked the meeting for sru/release stuff...
[15:31] <pitti> yes, right now we need to mostly ignore trusty, unless we upload a couple of SRUs to fix tests
[15:31] <infinity> slangasek, stgraber, pitti : ~ubuntu-release only has one Admin (me), which is suboptimal.  Anyone want to volunteer to be a second Admin?
[15:31] <slangasek> are we actually to where we're meant to be wrt not regressing the testbeds?
[15:32] <slangasek> infinity: you can give me bits
[15:32] <pitti> slangasek: since utopic, yes; trusty had a completely different infrastructure
[15:32] <infinity> slangasek: Done.
[15:33] <slangasek> pitti: my meaning is: are we at the point now where the testbed we're using to test trusty SRUs properly models what we were using at the time of trusty release
[15:33] <slangasek> (per the discussion in Austin)
[15:33] <infinity> slangasek: I think he's saying "close as it can get", since the runner is completely different, and we can't fix that.
[15:33] <slangasek> ok
[15:33] <slangasek> I did see some test failures that appeared to be regressions in the network policy
[15:34] <slangasek> i.e., use of proxy + accessing Canonical network resources still returning a failure
[15:34] <pitti> slangasek: they now have build-essential pre-installed; but e. g. the "tests don't have their build deps installed" behaviour is still differnet
[15:34] <pitti> that too
[15:34] <pitti> but there's not much I can do about that, we don't have unrestricted network there
[15:34] <infinity> Network policy is about to change again, so that's an ongoing battle.
[15:34] <infinity> But hopefully we can do it smoothly.
[15:34] <slangasek> I'm not asking for an unrestricted network
[15:34] <pitti> infinity: in scalingstack you mean?
[15:34] <slangasek> I'm asking for the network policy to actually match what I understood to have been agreed with CI :)
[15:35] <infinity> pitti: Yeah.  Though, we can probably do better with the move to scalingstack.
[15:35] <slangasek> which was "external resources on the Canonical network ok (but not yet implemented); truly external resources outside of our control, not ok"
[15:37] <pitti> slangasek: ah, we still have the old "anything goes via proxy" policy ATM
[15:37] <slangasek> barry: ^^ this also impacts your system-image tests of course, so if you want to know when your autopkgtests will be allowed to work... :)
[15:37] <stgraber> ah, that wasn't what you last told me, if that's the plan, then I'll have to turn off a bunch of tests in the LXC testsuite with the next upload
[15:37] <slangasek> pitti: oh, ok.  I saw some test failures that implied that things were not working, including using the proxy
[15:37] <pitti> was that "no arbitrary net access" already decided? (I object rather strongly..)
[15:37] <infinity> I object to that too, unless Debian adopts the same policy.
[15:38] <stgraber> unless "external resources on the Canonical network ok" includes "squid.internal" in which case, I've got what I need
[15:38] <infinity> Cause hacking every test from Debian is ungood.
[15:38] <barry> slangasek: yeah.  although i haven't gotten that far yet, i did re-enable the autopkgtests that do smoketesting against s-i.u.c
[15:38] <slangasek> tests relying on arbitrary external resources are unreliable tests
[15:38] <pitti> well, we would just change "one out of 1000 runs fails" with "all runs fail"
[15:38] <pitti> TBH, the unreliability of tests pales compared to the unreliability of our infrastructure
[15:38] <pitti> to the point that I can't even remember a single case
[15:39] <pitti> I mean wrt. remote net access, not in general
[15:39] <barry> it's also not necessarily a bad thing if you learn that a test relying on an external resource is failing <wink>
[15:40] <pitti> if I have to retry a failed net-accessing test twice a year, I'll be reeeeeeally happy :)
[15:40] <slangasek> stgraber: well, at least for the moment it's possible to access via the proxy
[15:40] <slangasek> (except when this randomly doesn't work)
[15:40] <infinity> slangasek: We did note that there are valid uses for tests talking to external resources, but often those don't relate to uploads, but should be daily "does my IM client software still work" tests.
[15:41] <stgraber> slangasek: ok. I got a bunch of e-mails about test failures and the log looked like no network connectivity but it wasn't triggered by one of my uploads so I didn't really look into the failure
[15:41] <slangasek> infinity: yes
[15:41] <infinity> slangasek: But if we figure out how to cater to that case, we still need to be able to talk to external resources to do it.
[15:41] <slangasek> infinity: the conclusion was "this doesn't belong in an autopkgtest run as part of proposed-migration"
[15:42] <infinity> slangasek: Sure, "... as part of p-m", I agree with, but we're building infra that should be flexible and reusable.
[15:42] <slangasek> it can be run under a different tenant with a different network policy
[15:42]  * infinity shrugs.
[15:42] <slangasek> using the same charm on the same cloud
[15:42] <infinity> Anyhow, stgraber's use case also seems reasonable.  Unless we want to host all his blobs in our network just to make the test 100% reliable instead of 99%, which seems like overengineering for a problem we don't have.
[15:43] <slangasek> stgraber: I heard something to the effect that Canonical would be doing internal hosting of lxc images; is that the plan?
[15:43] <stgraber> slangasek: nope
[15:43] <pitti> infinity: ^ or at least I don't think it's sensible to think about this while 20% of our tests fail due to random infrastructure problems
[15:44] <stgraber> LXD will be using the cloud images at some point in the near future, but nothing's changing for LXC
[15:44] <slangasek> stgraber: ah, of course
[15:44] <infinity> pitti: I like the theory that we'll make the infra five-nines reliable, so other problems become more obvious.
[15:44] <stgraber> and LXD's own testsuite already doesn't rely on network access at all
[15:44] <infinity> pitti: But, yeah, let's try to get there first.
[15:44] <slangasek> ok I think we've discussed this to death
[15:44] <slangasek> shall we release our captive audience?
[15:45] <infinity> +1
[15:45] <slangasek> #endmeeting
[15:45] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 15:45:28 2015 UTC.
[15:45] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-06-18-15.03.moin.txt
[15:45] <slangasek> thanks!
[15:45] <pitti> thanks everyone!
[15:45] <barry> thanks!
[16:59] <mhall119> sladen: are you around for this meeting?
[17:01] <mhall119> #startmeeting Community Council Weekly Meeting
[17:01] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jun 18 17:01:26 2015 UTC.  The chair is mhall119. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[17:01] <meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
[17:01] <mhall119> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[17:01] <mhall119> sladen: you are the only one to have something on the agenda, so I hope you're around
[17:02] <mhall119> this will not be the CC/KC meeting that we are trying to schedule, too many people from both teams were not going to be available, we will try and get that scheduled for next week at a convenient day and time for everybody
[17:03] <mhall119> but if you wanted to talk about any of the other things you put on the agenda, we can do that now
[17:07] <mhall119> I guess sladen isn't here, so we will postpone his agenda items for a later date
[17:07] <mhall119> is there any other business that anybody would like to bring up?
[17:10] <mhall119> I'm going to end it then, if anybody comes along in the next 50 minutes please ping me and I can start it up again
[17:10] <mhall119> #endmeeting
[17:10] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 17:10:40 2015 UTC.
[17:10] <meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-06-18-17.01.moin.txt
[17:22] <sladen> mhall119: today is Thursday
[17:27] <sladen> mhall119: hopefully you're researching topics to be able to talk about them on Friday 19 June 2015 17:00 UTC
[17:28] <sladen> mhall119: then we can distribute that information to those are may be around at the time
[17:29] <mhall119> sladen: we don't have anything scheduled for Friday
[17:30] <mhall119> sladen: ah, I think I see the confusion, in my email I said "tomorrow" when it was 12:01am for me, but I had meant today
[17:39]  * sladen nods; apologises if my attempts to distill clarity from ambiguity were unsuccessful on this occasion---and combination of "1700 UTC tomorrow" and "all day Friday" had lead me to parse it that way.  36 hours is pushing things anyway for people to prepare (traditionally CC agenda nominally closes 24 hours in advance)---12 hours would likely be unfeasible, so it's perhaps another lucky fluke in this case
[17:41] <sladen> I don't expect everything to fixable in one day (as you have noted, several people unavailable), but our audience is the wider *buntu community and we can answer what we can in order to get the ball rolling
[17:42] <sladen> mhall119: it's just under 24 hours, but is there anything from the proposed CC->KC agenda that could usefully be added?
[17:45] <mhall119> sladen: we don't actually have a meeting scheduled for tomorrow
[17:45] <mhall119> but we have 15 minutes left in the block today, if you want to discuss any of the non-KC items in your agenda
[17:45] <sladen> mhall119: well it's an agenda of items that have come up in the last month
[17:46] <ahoneybun> SELF?
[17:46] <mhall119> sladen: right, and some of them will be discussed in the CC/KC meeting that we are trying to schedule, but if you have questions about the donations, licensing, or SELF conference I can answer them now
[17:46] <sladen> mhall119: I'm not sure those items are _me_ asking per-se... they are items were we should endevour to provide answers in order to better support and inform out community
[17:47] <sladen> s/were/where/; s/out/our/
[17:47] <mhall119> sladen: ok, so I don't know of any outstanding questions about the donations program, I think we've been able to provide all of the answers that are possible
[17:47] <sladen> mhall119: so it's the answers that matter more precisely than who might be asking them
[17:47] <mhall119> there is still no update on the license, other than that Canonical and the SFLC have agreed on a set of changes and are coordinating joint announcments about it
[17:48] <sladen> mhall119: I think that's a worthwhile update in itself
[17:49] <mhall119> Mark has asked the TB if they would be willing to act as a stand-in for any CC member that needs to recuse themselves from an issue, so that the council can still operate effectively, and they seemed widely supportive of that
[17:49] <sladen> mhall119: as it clearly differentiate between what is blocked/waiting/parked/cancelled
[17:50] <mhall119> I don't think there's any formal process around when/how/who from the TB will fill in, but we can try that informally and see how we get on
[17:50] <mhall119> sladen: I'm not sure what you wanted about SELF, can you clarify?
[17:51] <mhall119> same with the agenda item about community donations from this month
[17:51] <sladen> also, that would be a good update to give tomorrow (even if its just those words) as it provides an update on the situation (informal, and indicates that it does not yet appear to have been called upon)
[17:51] <mhall119> sladen: ack
[17:52] <sladen> mhall119: for the donations programme, I think we have 2012H2 six-months figures for 3 out of 8 categories; and a budgetry allocation indication for one of those 8 categories (Update->Engineering)
[17:54] <sladen> mhall119: in https://lists.launchpad.net/kubuntu-council/msg00039.html there has been an assertion "doesn't seem to have been any interest on details of the other sliders still in use." but I don't recall having seen statements that might support that
[17:56] <mhall119> sladen: that was based on a lack of people asking for anything other than what was provided
[17:56] <sladen> mhall119: it would seem to make sense to document everything available from the programme that is known, and this would make it easier to hold up our hands and say that this is what is known
[17:57] <mhall119> sladen: if there's nobody who is interested in the data, I'm not going to ask people to spend time collecting it
[17:57] <mhall119> we never said we would release figures for all of the sliders, and nobody cares about anything but the 3 (now 1) that we've already done it for
[17:58] <sladen> mhall119: well, *I* for example (as a member of the Ubuntu community who finds oneself extolling the virtues of Debian/Ubuntu and contributing/donating to them) would certainly be interested to know and read about them.  I've tried to becareful in the last month not to ask for things directly, as my aim here is to get people talking, and that would likely confuse the issues
[17:59] <mhall119> sladen: in that case you should request that information from dpm on the community team, there's no need for the CC to be in the middle of that
[18:00] <mhall119> sladen: what about the SELF agenda item?
[18:00] <sladen> well I think people do care---when we, as a community encoourage people to support *buntu (with contributions, and money) it is perhaps easier to talk authoratively when full information is available, rather than 12%, or 38%
[18:01] <mhall119> sladen: again though, the CC doesn't have that information, and we don't need to be the middle-man in that request, ask dpm directly
[18:01] <sladen> mhall119: well I hope you can perhaps say something like the above---if the answer is "nothing is being done because it is not perceieved that there is a desire for more" then this is perfectly okay
[18:02] <sladen> mhall119: it helps our communities understand what is happening vs. what is parked/cancelled, or not in progress
[18:02] <mhall119> sladen: that is the current answer, yes, the CC is not inquiring further about donations figures, we are satisfied with what has already been published
[18:03] <sladen> mhall119: then that I think would be a perfect complete answer to give tomorrow
[18:03] <mhall119> sladen: the only open issue the CC is tracking now is the IP policy update
[18:04] <sladen> mhall119: yup, it sounds like you've got an answer for that prepared above I can see
[18:04] <mhall119> sladen: so our hour timeslot is over, was there something specific you wanted to say about SELF?
[18:05] <sladen> shall we work through preparing/working through the rest of the items I've tried to group on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda#General_Agenda_Items_and_Proposals
[18:05] <mhall119> sladen: the rest of them are things for the CC/KC meeting
[18:06] <sladen> mhall119: ahhh, South-East Linux Fest
[18:07] <sladen> mhall119: I believe this was something that happened in the last week, so likely to be something that the Week 25 communtiy team summary will cover, and so something yourself may wish to talk about following the sending out of the community team summary tomorrow
[18:08] <sladen> mhall119: it was an item that came up on the Community Team list in the last month, and is an example of a use of the community fund
[18:09] <sladen> mhall119: so it would be an opportunity to talk about how it worked out; so highlighting the work of the Community Team, and Community members in organising a prescence there
[18:09] <sladen> mhall119: and how other community team members could do similiar for their own events
[18:10] <mhall119_> sladen: sorry, power blip knocked me offline
[18:10] <mhall119_> last I saw was 14:06 < mhall119> we will provide an update after that meeting
[18:11] <sladen> sadly  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/06/18/%23ubuntu-meeting.html  not updated
[18:11] <pleia2> sladen: this seems like more like a proposal for a loco initiative, historically blog posts from community members post-event have been the standard for sharing event details like ahoneybun's from SELF last week: https://athoneycutt.wordpress.com/2015/06/13/self-day-1-ubuntu/
[18:11] <pleia2> I think it's gret to publicize the community funding often, but not sure how this is a CC thing
[18:12] <pleia2> the LoCo Council may be a good body to approach about coming up with some kind of campaign/toolkit for asking for funding and doing events
[18:12] <pleia2> nhaines and jose are both very experienced with these things
[18:12] <mhall119> the community team already publishes quarterly reports about the community donations
[18:13] <mhall119> svij, nhaines, jose and I are also going to be working together on documentation for UbuCons
[18:13] <pleia2> mhall119: nice
[18:13] <jose> o/
[18:13] <mhall119> but agian, not a CC thing
[18:13] <jose> I'll be around for another 15 or 30 if you want to PM me re:SELF
[18:14] <sladen> dialogues often flow when people can talk about their (non-controversial) passions with enthusiasm.  So the its about trying to find ways to allow conversation to start and getting the ball rolling
[18:14] <pleia2> well, I don't want to step on the LoCo Council's toes here, so I really would rather defer to them on things like local events
[18:15] <mhall119> I like pleia2's suggestion that you do that as a loco-driven thing
[18:15] <sladen> well, perhaps there are other topics that peole would like to talk about and so start to built recongnition of each other's passions and qualities in order that the harder discussions and dialogues can flow
[18:15] <mhall119> btw, if any team is waiting on this channel please tell us to shut up and go away :)
[18:16] <pleia2> I believe last fall there was a thread or two on the ubuntu-community-team list about recognition, but there were too many ideas in those flurry of threads for the volunteers we had to work on them
[18:16] <mhall119> sladen: I think we already have a lot of tools and channels for this (IRC, forums, planet, discourse, mailing lists, etc)
[18:16] <pleia2> might be worthwhile for all of us to revisit those threads to see if there's anything we can pick up and work on now
[18:16] <mhall119> it's just a habit and culture of doing it that is needed
[18:16] <sladen> and we're slowly going off-topic in preparation for tomorrow
[18:17] <mhall119> again, sladen, there is no meeting tomorrow
[18:17] <sladen> which is excellent for conversation, but I would not want to detract or distract from tomorrow
[18:17] <pleia2> too many people can't make it, short notice
[18:17] <czajkowski> sladen: the CC meets on a Thursday,
[18:17] <czajkowski> every 2nd thursday never a Friday.
[18:17] <pleia2> czajkowski: this is the KC/CC meeting proposal
[18:17] <mhall119> sladen: the meeting I referenced in my email was today's
[18:17] <pleia2> czajkowski: not regular CC one
[18:17] <czajkowski> pleia2: aye I know but it was meant to be during the CC meeting due to timezones and mails being sent, folks though it was Friday
[18:18] <mhall119> pleia2: even that won't be this week
[18:18] <sladen> mhall119: we've published that; it may only be me, but I will do my best to covey some of the answers in the IRC above now that we have them
[18:18] <czajkowski> *thought
[18:18] <pleia2> mhall119: right
[18:18] <sladen> mhall119: and others are welcome to join in the fun
[18:19] <mhall119> sladen: give us a chance to hold our meeting first, then we can go from there
[18:23] <mhall119> sladen: I think we'll wrap this one up since we're already 20 minutes past our alloted time, the KC and CC will provide an update after our meeting with each other, and then we can move on to any other topics that haven't been completed at that time
[18:24] <mhall119> #endmeeting
[18:24] <sladen> mhall119: +1 and thank you for the answers in preparation for tomorrow
[18:24] <mhall119> though I never actually re-started it, so that does nothing
[18:25] <mhall119> sladen: always happy to provide answers, we're in #ubuntu-community-team all the time too