[00:22] <jimcornette> Hello there I am running into a couple of issues with the Ubuntu Phone. I tried to set developer mode.  But it said that I need a passwd or something else.  So when tying to set that It it says that it can not.  then after that When I try to unlock the phone (swipe) It asks me for the password then fails when I try to enter it in
[00:22] <jimcornette> any ideas on how I can get back into the phone ?  I wuld like to enable ssh and some other stuff
[00:22] <jimcornette> would *
[00:24] <jimcornette> Also after trying to enter in the passwd more then X amount of time it tells me that I have to wait 5 minutes :S
[06:24] <sturmflut2> ogra_: Ping
[06:25] <sturmflut2> http://blog.meizu.it/arriva-il-meizu-mx4-ubuntu-edition/ The Meizu MX4 with Ubuntu will launch in europe on thursday
[06:25] <sturmflut2> ogra_: ^^
[06:52] <sturmflut2> popey: Oh, they're trying to compile AppArmor profiles in the background after a system update has been downloaded and before the phone reboots and does the actual update, to speed up the process
[07:05]  * ogra_ lols about Matlib's list above ... 
[07:06] <ogra_> issue 1) ... concerns about security
[07:06] <ogra_> issue 2) enable samba by default on all phones
[07:06] <ogra_> haha
[07:06] <ogra_> sturmflut2, all italian :/
[07:08] <sturmflut2> ogra_: It just says "the phone will go on sale on June 25", they will be shipped to customers within the first ten days of july, and the rest is a repetition of the hardware features
[07:08] <ogra_> sturmflut2, sure, i can read it (and use g-translate) ...
[07:08] <dholbach> good morning
[07:08] <sturmflut2> dholbach: Moin!
[07:08] <ogra_> just sad that they dont have some english version
[07:11] <sturmflut2> ogra_: What I really wonder is why this official blog already announced the news yesterday, but no other official Meizu account seems to have written anything
[07:11] <dholbach> hey sturmflut2
[07:11] <ogra_> well, the it site did do that in the past
[07:12] <ogra_> see all the videos in the ubuntu category ...
[07:12] <ogra_> ... there was no accompanying word on the main site back then
[07:18] <hio> why on earth would i buy an ubuntu phone instead of an iphone?
[07:18] <ogra_> why wouldnt you ?
[07:20] <mcphail> hio: you make your own choices in life. Nr Shuttleworth remains a dictator of the benevolent variety
[07:21] <hio> is there an app market on ubuntu phones?
[07:21] <popey> hio: yes
[07:21] <hio> what language can i write apps for that?
[07:22] <popey> qml, html5, c++...
[07:23] <hio> so the device apis are in c++ and theres bindings for javascript? and if i want to write my app in any other language i can bind to the c++ apis?
[07:23] <hio> e.g sending an sms on ubuntu phone
[07:23] <hio> is there an api?
[07:26] <mcphail> hio: not quite. Apps in Ubuntu are strictly contained and don't get direct access to such things by default. Worth having a look at the developer docs and having a play with the emulator to get the idea
[07:27] <hio> well naturally, but i can prompt the user for these permissions right
[07:29] <RAOF> I'm not sure if send-SMS is one of the capabilities we provide, but in general, yeah.
[07:29] <hio> even old nokia phones have an api for that!
[07:29] <mcphail> hio: the frameworks are evolving in terms of what apps can and cannot ask permissions to do. You'll find it a very different experience than developing for android or ios: security and confinement is much greater
[07:29] <ogra_> you can use url-dispatecher to make your app open the messaging app
[07:30] <ogra_> (like on a desktop clicking a mailto: link in a website opens your mail app)
[07:31] <hio> thats not good enough, needs to happen in the background
[07:31] <mcphail> hio: it is a different concept. If you want your app to have freedom, Ubuntu is not for you. The strict confinement allows users to trust apps from the store even though they haven't been cyrated
[07:31] <mcphail> *curated
[07:31] <hio> ok but that's against the spirit of linux imo
[07:31] <hio> i want my app to do anything just like my desktop
[07:32] <mcphail> hio: in the 90's we would have called it a "paradigm shift" :)
[07:32]  * popey ticks off a box on his bingo card
[07:33] <mcphail> hio: don't worry - confinment is coming to the desktop as well ;)
[07:33] <hio> i dont like it, i already complained to microsoft about these insane win10 app restrictions and now ur telling me even linux is going that route
[07:34] <popey> i dont want your random app in the store reaching into my contact list and sending it to some random website
[07:34] <mcphail> hio: That's the model Ubuntu is working towards, I'm afraid. The days of a rogue or malicious process destroying your files or removing your privacy are coming to an end
[07:34] <popey> or it going and getting my documents and sending them somewhere
[07:34] <ogra_> heh, or use up your free SMS to spam the world
[07:35] <popey> or any one of a million other undesireable things
[07:35] <ogra_> hio, go android if you want to write SW that is able to breach security :)
[07:36] <mcphail> hio: honestly - try it for a while. At present, the frameworks are a little too restrictive imho, but the model is sound
[07:36] <ogra_> stay with ubuntu if you want a system where the user knows what his software does
[07:36] <robin-hero> Hi all! Emualtor has been not working for weeks, any progress with this error?
[07:36] <ogra_> mcphail, well, that simply means we need more system services to provide more features :)
[07:37] <ogra_> robin-hero, hmm, the released images should have been tested with the emulator too
[07:37] <ogra_> davmor2, ^^^ ?
[07:37] <hio> guys the problem with this "security" is that i cant make apps that provide value anymore
[07:38] <mcphail> hio: that's a bit of a sweeping generalisation
[07:38] <ogra_> hio, define value
[07:38] <hio> improving built in functions
[07:38] <ogra_> hio, value like colleciting my GPS profile and then sending info about it via SMS to some secret reciever ?
[07:39] <mcphail> hio: you can improve the functions directly. The frameworks are open and patches considered. No need to hack around them with apps
[07:39] <ogra_> or value like having an app that records audio while i dont know about it
[07:40] <conyoo> NSA sound recorder +1
[07:40] <ogra_> :)
[07:41] <conyoo> i'm gonna open a bug report against launchpad (there is no mobile version!), it will probably make some devs laugh :))
[07:43] <ogra_> also "... now ur telling me even linux is going that route..." ... no, we are not linux ... linux is the part of the system that makes your hardware work ... we are ubuntu, there is a concept on top of linux ... the source is all available, if you want to you can grab it, remove that concept and build your own roms
[07:43] <hio> ogra_: if i want to make an app that records my every goddamn move then I want to be able to do that. How is that not freedom? ur telling me ubuntu doesnt care about freedom anymore
[07:44] <ogra_> hio, we do, see above, feel free to roll your own image without any restrictions
[07:44] <mcphail> hio: you can build an app which does that. But the store will not accept it by default. Doesn't stop you installing it on your own phone
[07:44] <hio> okay, so you offer the same freedom as microsoft
[07:44] <ogra_> you can re-brand and re-build it and sell it if you like
[07:44] <hio> "make ur own os"
[07:44] <ogra_> no
[07:44] <hio> thats almost literally the same
[07:45] <ogra_> or did microsoft show you the source code of all their system ?
[07:45] <ogra_> are you able to actually build windows images ?
[07:45] <hio> the fact that its slightly easier to roll my own OS via ubuntu doesnt change that in terms of freedom both microsoft and ubuntu will offer the same shipped product
[07:45] <ogra_> or are you even able to remove the resctrictions on a running MS phone
[07:46] <ogra_> (note that you can indeed disable everything on y running phone if you like ... we just dont allow that for your moms phone )
[07:46] <ogra_> *on a
[07:47] <hio> yep so you are restricting freedom for comfort
[07:47] <conyoo> let's make a fire bug 1450485
[07:47] <ogra_> no, for keeping your moms addressbok safe
[07:47] <hio> my moms address book is safe if she just got out of her comfort zone and read the security poup
[07:48] <ogra_> does she ?
[07:48] <hio> of course not
[07:48] <ogra_> see :)
[07:48] <hio> no YOU see
[07:48] <hio> you make a shittier product to be able to cater to soccer moms
[07:48] <hio> that is ubuntu now, congrats
[07:48] <ogra_> your mom wouldnt read the popup ... she would click it away (like million users do on android phones every day)
[07:48] <ogra_> we make a sdystem where that doesnt happen ...
[07:49] <mcphail> hio: we enjoy your trolling, but please moderate your language
[07:49] <hio> instead of thinking about a model that allows both sides to coexist with total freedom, you cop-out completely and 1:1 copy the apple/microsoft security model
[07:49]  * ogra_ would say we improved it ... :)
[07:49] <hio> only in apple la-la land is removing freedom an improvement
[07:49] <popey> Note that the Debian based desktop ISO is still being made.
[07:49] <popey> Where you can have apps which do all these things.
[07:50] <ogra_> you can have them on the phone too ... just not from the official store
[07:51] <ogra_> a sideloaded app can come completely without any security
[07:52] <ogra_> heck, people are running complete Xorg desktops on their ubuntu phones ... you got all the freedom you want ...
[07:52] <ogra_> buut then again, your mom probably just wants a safe and working phone :)
[07:54] <ogra_> there are people running apache+tomcat and a web IDE for java development on their phones ... nobody takes away any freedom from the user ...
[07:55] <ogra_> but if you want to provide a plain phone app you have to play by the rules the system provides ...
[07:55] <sturmflut2> hio: Why don't you have a look at all the documentation and at an actual system and see if it is really impossible to build/run the app you want
[07:56] <ogra_> (which might be wider than you might think ... as sturmflut2 suggests, dont judge by the cover)
[07:56] <mcphail> hio: can you give us a link to an app you've developed on a different platform, and we could see whether it would translate to the Ubuntu system?
[08:05] <hio> mcphail: other platforms cant do it either, thats my point. I would only switch to ubuntu if it offered MORE freedom
[08:05] <hio> apparently it does not, even less
[08:05] <Zabuldon> Hello guys! it is any way to build Ubuntu touch based on CyanogenMod 11 or 12?
[08:06] <conyoo> ogra_, the flash light is not working on mx4 (most of the time), i have to reboot to make it work again, where should i report this bug?
[08:08] <popey> conyoo: https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bugs
[08:08] <conyoo> thanks popey
[08:10] <sturmflut2> hio: You might want to actually look at the platform before you start spreading FUD. I don't see a problem with your example, if you want an app that creates a GPS profile and sends SMS, that will most likely be possible even with confinement in the near future. You start the app, you get asked if you want to allow it to access the GPS and to send SMS, and then it just runs. For everything else, you can also run apps
[08:10] <sturmflut2> without confinement. There even is an App Store for those "more powerful" apps, the OpenStore.
[08:11] <sturmflut2> Wellark: Ping
[08:12] <hio> sturmflut2: good to know thank you. Is it possible to use XFS filesystem on the phone?
[08:13] <popey> hio: the images we ship use ext4, but someone could build an image using xfs I'd imagine
[08:13] <popey> bit of work
[08:14] <ogra_> sure, but you would have to build an xfs module and make some changes, then you could use it on the writable part of the system and wear out your MMC
[08:14] <hio> is it possible to one-click switch to another image for my ubuntu phone?
[08:14] <popey> another image?
[08:14] <popey> Like switch to Android?
[08:14] <ogra_> no, but there is a commandline tool to switch between different image channels
[08:14] <hio> yeah, i want to be able to switch to xfs backed image and if it doesnt work out or crashes, i want to switch back
[08:14] <sturmflut2> hio: the current kernels don't seem to come with XFS, but that might change, especially when Convergence hits the market. People might want to use XFS on the external USB drives they connect
[08:14] <ogra_> ah, no
[08:15] <sturmflut2> hio: I don't think it would be a good idea to run XFS on the internal flash of your phone
[08:15] <ogra_> definitely not
[08:15] <ogra_> but you can also definitely do it :)
[08:15] <popey> is xfs quite chatty on IO?
[08:15] <hio> sturmflut2: why not?
[08:15] <ogra_> it does a lot more journalling
[08:15] <popey> ahh
[08:16] <popey> we should use btrfs ㋛

[08:16] <mcphail> yay :)
[08:16] <ogra_> and it will likely be a lot slower on an MMC
[08:16] <popey> works for sailfish!
[08:16] <ogra_> brave guys :)
[08:16] <conyoo> bug 1467807
[08:16] <sturmflut2> popey, hio: XFS was never designed for "normal" storage devices. For example it assumes that you have a battery-backed storage controller, if you don't and the system crashes XFS is prone to data loss.
[08:17]  * ogra_ would actually like to play with f2fs ... but currently snappy eats my development time :)
[08:17] <hio> but xfs has journaling, thats the entire reason i want it
[08:17] <sturmflut2> hio: ext4 has journaling?
[08:17] <ogra_> ext4 has journaling ...
[08:18] <hio> wait, let me think. i wanted xfs because it has the same kind of api as ntfs which lets me check for changed files. idk if it was called journalling exactly, id have to look it up
[08:18]  * mcphail just wants _anything_ but vfat for external storage
[08:18] <ogra_> hio, you want inotify ... thats the linux word for it
[08:18] <hio> no i dont
[08:18] <sturmflut2> hio: You might want to look that up again
[08:18] <ogra_> hio, and that is totally independent of the filesystem
[08:19] <ogra_> (well, not totally, but most FSes support it and the API from the kernel side is the same for all)
[08:19] <mcphail> inotify wouldn't work adequately
[08:19] <ogra_> why not ?
[08:19] <ogra_> it will tell you abouot all file changes
[08:19] <mcphail> the watching process won't be inotified if it is backgrounded
[08:20] <mcphail> (at least, I couldn't get it to work)
[08:20] <ogra_> heh, no, you would have to have a system service indeed ... but not because of the backgrounding ... simply because security confinement wouldnt let you talk to the API
[08:20] <sturmflut2> Wasn't inotify superseeded by fanotify
[08:21] <ogra_> might be
[08:21] <popey> conyoo: left a comment on your bug
[08:21] <sturmflut2> ogra_: But real men use ftrace and kprobes anyways ;)
[08:21] <ogra_> lol
[08:22] <sturmflut2> Sadly ftrace and kprobes are very limited, at least on krillin
[08:27] <sturmflut2> Grrr, I had a whole "Hacking Ubuntu Touch" article prepared detailing what I did to debug bug 1421455, and now the bug has been fixed before I get to publish it
[08:27] <sturmflut2> How dare they make the product better!
[08:27] <conyoo> popey, o/ it's probably related, but i've opened the uTorch app just to test the flash after it wasn't working in the camera app, so the uTorch wasn't running
[08:27] <conyoo> before
[08:30] <davmor2> robin-hero: what image are you testing on with emulator
[08:31] <robin-hero> rc-proposed
[08:31] <davmor2> robin-hero: what is the exact command you are using
[08:33] <robin-hero> davmor2: No moment, I search it
[08:33] <robin-hero> *One
[08:35] <robin-hero> I'm sitting in front of an other computer, but I think this was the command: sudo ubuntu-emulator --arch=i386 --channel=ubuntu-touch/rc-propoed/ubuntu
[08:36] <davmor2> robin-hero: okay cool install 171 now just checking we were on the same page
[08:36] <robin-hero> ok
[08:37] <robin-hero> It just shows a black screen
[08:38] <conyoo> popey,  http://i.imgur.com/ZMJ5RFR.png
[08:38] <popey> ogra_: is there (that you know) a pre-built armhf ubuntu image I can grab and boot in kvm?
[08:38] <popey> conyoo: thats what I see if utorch is open, yes.
[08:38] <ogra_> popey, i dont think so ... and you would run it in qemu, not KVM (slow)
[08:39] <popey> you build in chroots on devices, right?
[08:39] <conyoo> o/ bbl snack time
[08:43] <ogra_> popey, no, i use qemu-user-static and ubuntu-core tarballs usually ...
[08:43]  * ogra_ got to old for building each and every chroot :P 
[08:44] <ogra_> install qemu-user-static ... wget an ubuntu-core (not snappy) tarball ... untar it ... copy /usr/bin/qemu-arm-static into the untarred dir and just chroot into it
[08:45] <rbasak> Is apport expected to work on my Aquaris?
[08:46] <rbasak> Whatever I do, I get "This is not an official Ubuntu package. Please remove any third party package and try again." - even when trying to file a bug against apport itself.
[08:46] <ogra_> rbasak, whoopsie is ... (and in a degraded form apport too, yes)
[08:46] <ogra_> rbasak, are you on the latest OTA image ?
[08:46] <rbasak> ogra_: yes, r23.
[08:46] <ogra_> that should actually use the approt package from vivid
[08:46] <rbasak> apport	2.17.2-0ubuntu1.1
[08:46] <ogra_> yeah
[08:47] <ogra_> i thought ubuntu-bug would work ... weird
[08:47] <rbasak> ogra_: bug in apport? Or system-image?
[08:47] <ogra_> no idea ... the only thing we actually use from apport is the core collection from whoopsie ... that definitely works
[08:49] <ogra_> just file a bug by hand ?
[08:49] <rbasak> I did. But it would be nice if apport worked, so I am filing a bug for that.
[08:49] <rbasak> Not sure what it should be against though?
[08:50]  * ogra_ guesses there is already one ... i bet popey knows 
[08:51] <popey> wassup?
[08:51] <popey> apport works, what's the specific issue?
[08:51] <popey> you're running "apport-bug apport"?
[08:51] <rbasak> popey: it doesn't for me at all.
[08:51] <rbasak> "This is not an official Ubuntu package. Please remove any third party package and  try again."
[08:52] <popey> when you do what?
[08:52] <rbasak> popey: even in response to "ubuntu-bug apport".
[08:52] <rbasak> popey: you can't reproduce this?
[08:52]  * popey tries
[08:52] <rbasak> Let me give you a pastebin.
[08:52] <rbasak> (generating)
[08:53] <rbasak> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11761165/
[08:53]  * ogra_ wonders if some hackery we did in rtm to make it work was dropped ... since we use the official vivid package now 
[08:53] <rbasak> (and I haven't modified /etc/default/apport - I haven't remounted anything read-write)
[08:53] <popey> i dont get that
[08:54] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11761169/
[08:54] <popey> ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/bq-aquaris.en image 47 on krillin
[08:56] <matv1> musicplayer audio output goes to max when skipping to next song.. anybody ever had that happen?
[08:56] <ogra_> it just wants your attention :)
[08:57] <rbasak> popey: I filed https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apport/+bug/1467830
[08:57] <rbasak> Not sure where it should go, but apport seems a good place to start.
[08:57] <matv1> ogra if that it is so then it works like a charm :)
[08:57] <ogra_> rbasak, how are you logged in ... ?
[08:58] <ogra_> matv1, heh
[08:58] <robin-hero> davmor2: Any progress?
[08:58] <matv1> ogra I meant.. SORYY  WHAT ??
[08:58] <rbasak> ogra_: ssh
[08:58] <ogra_> hmm, k, just wated to make sure popey and you are on the same page
[08:59] <rbasak> Well, we are using different images :)
[08:59] <popey> uh
[09:00] <ogra_> they shouldnt be so far apart though ... popeys is a week or ten days newer
[09:00] <ogra_> rbasak, eeek ... "android-gadget-service-enable ssh"
[09:01] <ogra_> for the next tim you want to enable ssh :)
[09:01] <ogra_> *time
[09:01] <ogra_> (dont call setprop directly ... the gadget service has some extra checks etc)
[09:02] <rbasak> ogra_: OK, but I couldn't use your answer as I didn't want to mess with setting up adb.
[09:02] <davmor2> robin-hero: booting up slowly
[09:02] <rbasak> ogra_: and the answer below yours said to use setprop.
[09:02] <ogra_> rbasak, you dont need to ... the gadget servie works from the terminal app ... and nc should too
[09:03] <ogra_> the answer below mine is fine ... just replace the setprop line with the command above ... beyond that it would be the same
[09:03] <ogra_> (also why dont you wget your key from launchpad ;) )
[09:04]  * ogra_ bets even the download manager via webbrowser would work :) 
[09:05] <rbasak> ogra_: because ssh-import-id isn't available. And the instructions would better be written for most users who won't already have their key in Launchpad :)
[09:05] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Let It Go Day! 😃
[09:06] <ogra_> rbasak, i was talking about you, not most users :)
[09:06] <ogra_> anyway, you got it running :)
[09:06] <rbasak> :)
[09:07] <rbasak> :)
[09:08] <rbasak> Anyway, the original bug I tried to report is https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/webbrowser-app/+bug/1467818. If someone wants to confirm, it should be trivial to reproduce.
[09:09] <robin-hero> davmor2: It never finish booting, at least for me :)
[09:10] <ogra_> rbasak, doesnt crash for me (though i'm on MX4 on todays rc-proposed image)
[09:11] <rbasak> ogra_: did the context menu appear the right way up, OOI?
[09:11] <rbasak> I wonder if it's Aquaris-specific.
[09:11] <ogra_> yes, looked all fine
[09:11] <ogra_> four options in the menu
[09:11] <ogra_> hmm
[09:11] <rbasak> I see the menu sideways very briefly before it crashes.
[09:11] <rbasak> Thanks for looking.
[09:12] <ogra_> wanting to try it on my krillin i notice i dont have maliit running ... no kbd
[09:12] <ogra_> hmm, who had that bug yesterday ... i want to "me too" it
[09:13] <ogra_> rbasak, might be related to the resolution
[09:13] <popey> bug 1467648
[09:14] <ogra_> popey, thanks
[09:14] <mcphail> Aaargh. dbus-daemon is lagging my phone again. Any idea how I can debug this?
[09:15] <ogra_> mcphail, i think tvoss had some procedures in the past
[09:15] <mcphail> is this a known issue on vivid? It is killing the experience
[09:15] <brobostigon> i did an experiment yesterday, i tried facebook, in sailfish in a normal web browser and on the web app in touch, and they behave noticbly differently, are there elements that are in that browser that arent inside the webapp solution?
[09:16] <tvoss> mcphail, I investigated into the underlying issue some time ago but never came to a definite conclusion
[09:16] <ogra_> rbasak, works on krillin too
[09:16] <tvoss> mcphail, let me find my debugging procedure
[09:16] <mcphail> tvoss: cheers. It doesn't help that I don't really understand dbus ;)
[09:17] <tvoss> mcphail, it's not that difficult, think a fan in the middle that is responsible for distributing to one or multiple destinations
[09:17] <rbasak> ogra_: I am happy to help debug further, but I know little about the internals on the phone.
[09:17] <sturmflut2> Wellark: Ping
[09:17] <ogra_> rbasak, http://i.imgur.com/2r9RApp.png
[09:17] <rbasak> ogra_: how do I arrange a core dump with ubuntu-app-launcher involved?
[09:17] <ogra_> uh, no idea ... thats ted-land :)
[09:18] <rbasak> ogra_: I believe you. I can send you a video of my behaviour if you like but I'm pretty sure you believe me too :)
[09:18] <ogra_> yeah, i do
[09:19] <rbasak> ogra_: oh, it's a dupe, with a proposed fix
[09:19] <robin-hero> davmor2: So, If am right it didn't booted for you too :)
[09:22] <girotonda> hi people, can i paste in a facebook app, with copy and paste?
[09:22] <davmor2> robin-hero: indeed look like systemd login is breaking
[09:23] <Tm_T> good day to you all
[09:23] <sturmflut2> brobostigon: As far as I can see the Facebook webapp on Ubuntu injects some JavaScript to change the original website
[09:23] <mcphail> tvoss: I'm really curious to know what it is up to when it is spiking to 50--95% CPU usage. That doesn't seem right
[09:24] <tvoss> mcphail, you want to familiarize yourself with dbus-monitor to get started
[09:24] <brobostigon> sturmflut2: interesting.
[09:24] <robin-hero> davmor2: Yes, and this is the situation for weeks or more
[09:24] <Tm_T> is it yet possible to add your own scope to the news aggr scope?
[09:24] <Tm_T> scope/source of content
[09:24] <sturmflut2> brobostigon: But I'm definitely not the webapp expert
[09:24] <sturmflut2> Tm_T: Scope Tagging should make that possible
[09:24] <davidcalle> Tm_T, yes, tagging
[09:24] <brobostigon> sturmflut2: ok, ty.
[09:25] <Tm_T> thanks fellows, I'll try that then (:
[09:25] <ogra_> davidcalle, systemd login ??
[09:25] <davidcalle> Tm_T, see https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/scopes/tutorials/scope-keywords/
[09:25] <davidcalle> ogra_, wait, what?
[09:25] <Tm_T> davidcalle: neat, thank you very much
[09:25] <ogra_> davidcalle, err, that was for davmor2
[09:26] <mcphail> tvoss: aah - looks as if I'm going to have to wait until I get home to connect via adb/phablet-shell. Not going to be able to keep track of dbus-monitor on the terminal app
[09:26] <tvoss> mcphail, likely :) just give me a ping when you are back home
[09:26] <davidcalle> Tm_T, also, see https://code.launchpad.net/~knitzsche/ubuntu-rest-scopes/yahoofianance_news.finance_keyword/+merge/262593 , you can do things like "news.sport" or "news.finance", to add a level of detail if you want.
[09:26] <mcphail> tvoss: cheers. I'll try to avoid rebooting the phone in the meantime. Lag always settles after reboot
[09:26] <girotonda> with bq 4.5 ubuntu?
[09:27] <popey> mcphail: log to a file and pastebin it?
[09:27] <davmor2> ogra_: user@32011.service
[09:27] <davmor2> [   16.837083] systemd-logind[921]: Failed to start user service: Unknown unit: user@0.service
[09:27] <ogra_> aha
[09:27] <mcphail> popey: output is _huge_ and really need to see what is happening during the CPU spikes
[09:27] <popey> ah
[09:27] <ogra_> so logind is broken ... (but more likely lightdm is, this is likely just fallout)
[09:28] <mcphail> popey: going to have to have "top" running in a parallel terminal
[09:28] <popey> i have terminal set to live forever thanks to tweak geek
[09:28] <popey> so handy
[09:28] <mcphail> tweak geek?
[09:28] <tvoss> mcphail, great, thank you :)
[09:28] <ogra_> we should probably really make that a default
[09:29] <popey> mcphail: open store, it lets you make apps have lifecycle exception
[09:29] <ogra_> for the terminal app it makes sense to at least not suspend the shell
[09:29] <popey> yeah
[09:30] <mcphail> That's twice I've heard of the open store this morning. Where is this land of exotic delights? :)
[09:30] <popey> https://open.uappexplorer.com/
[09:30] <mcphail> ooh
[09:32] <mcphail> I presume the store itself is by a trusted dev?
[09:32] <popey> → mzanetti
[09:32]  * mcphail is reassured
[09:32] <popey> Trust No-one.
[09:33] <mcphail> The truth is out there
[09:34] <Tm_T> davidcalle: hmm, so I can make the aggregator scope use more details in the request and the scope could use that extra detail, right?
[09:34] <girotonda> i see only copy ...
[09:35] <Tm_T> davidcalle: what I have in here is a scope that when used independently can give different feeds according the topic you choose
[09:35] <davidcalle> Tm_T, not sure about the internals of the aggregator itself, but It should, afaict
[09:35] <Tm_T> davidcalle: if I can make the magic happen somewhow whitout chopping this to several scopes that would be superb
[09:35] <davidcalle> Indeed
[09:36] <davmor2> popey: mcphail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEhpmuXHmRQ
[09:36] <Tm_T> davidcalle: there's 20+ different news subjects this one scope is providing now, so yeah
[09:36] <popey> Not clicking that
[09:36] <popey> It'll be terrible 80's pop
[09:36] <Tm_T> popey: there's other kind from 80's?
[09:36] <davmor2> robin-hero: did you file a bug at all?
[09:37] <davmor2> popey: no it's terrible 90's pop
[09:37] <davmor2> popey: but fitting of the conversation
[09:37] <girotonda> 😃😃😃😃😃
[09:38] <popey> I know what it will be :)
[09:38] <mcphail> Youtube blocked here but tell me it is a link to the gorgeous Cerys Matthews?
[09:38] <popey> Catatonia?
[09:38] <davmor2> popey: it might be
[09:39] <davmor2> mcphail: Of course it is
[09:39] <robin-hero> davmor2: Nope, coz I don't know which logs I need to attach.
[09:39] <mcphail> davmor2: :)
[09:41] <ogra_> girotonda, copy/paste is generally working not so well yet
[09:42] <ogra_> especially in webapps i think
[09:43] <davmor2> robin-hero: no worries I'll write one up
[09:44] <Tm_T> davidcalle: ":-1: warning: scope_ini_ylenews_scope_unknown_fields: Unknown field in 'ylenews/ylenews.tmt_ylenews.ini': keywords"
[09:44] <robin-hero> davmor2: Thanks, please link it when it'll be ready
[09:45] <girotonda> ogra_ in others use that works ... boh 😊
[09:46] <ogra_> ah, then it is actually an issue with the app
[09:47] <ogra_> girotonda, if it is the app from canonical https://bugs.launchpad.net/webapps-core/+filebug ...  (check in your app store if it is the canonical one you got installed ... i think there are other facebook webapps too)
[09:48] <girotonda> twitter idem ... ok thanks ... now try 😉
[09:48] <davmor2> robin-hero: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/phablet-tools/+bug/1467865
[09:49] <robin-hero> davmor2: Thanks
[09:51] <davmor2> robin-hero: in future just file a bug, the issue is on here a comment can go sailing past with ease and then the dev never knows.  A bug can have a task assigned to it so it is on the devs plate, Don't worry so much about exact logs if you put in the info to reproduce if that makes sense.  But thanks for raising it :)
[09:52] <robin-hero> davmor2: Okay, thanks again :)
[09:57] <Zabuldon> Hello guys, is it any way to build ubuntu touch over CyanogenMod 11 or 12?
[09:57] <ogra_> over ?
[09:58] <mcphail> Zabuldon: the 2 projects share similar components, but Ubuntu isn't an android wrapper
[09:59] <Zabuldon> for my device i can build only cyanogenmod. i don’t have AOSP. But i want to build Ubuntu touch
[09:59] <mcphail> aah
[10:01] <mcphail> I'm going to have a look at this as well, at some point. Keen to play with Ubuntu on my S3, and a good porting guide from cyanogenmod would be useful
[10:01] <ZacharyIgielman> I made a webapp as per the tutorial: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/web/tutorials/web-app-tutorial/ but there are a few problems with my web app. Firstly, how can I block pop ups? Secondly, how can I enable it to play video (video works fine when simulating on my laptop, but on my uTouch N4 I get MEDIA_ERR_SRC_NOT_SUPPORTED)?
[10:07] <jgdx> ZacharyIgielman, there's also #ubuntu-app-devel
[10:09] <ZacharyIgielman> jgdx, thanks
[10:42] <sturmflut2> Now this is strange
[10:43] <jgdx> sturmflut2, waaat
[10:44] <sturmflut2> I am running eventstat on arale and krillin. If I turn the phone on, disable all radios, start eventstat and then lock the screen, I get a steady pattern of timer events, and after ~170 seconds (krillin)/~220 seconds (arale) the event rate suddenly gets *much* lower, on both devices
[10:47] <ogra_> sturmflut2, and what is surprising there ?
[10:48] <ogra_> it tries to go into deep sleep
[10:48] <sturmflut2> ogra_: After two minutes?
[10:48] <ogra_> it goes to sleep 10-20sec after switching off the screen ... and then to deep sleep after a while
[10:49] <ogra_> on tteh mx4 you can actually see when the first sleep happens if you play with the home button right after turning it off
[10:49] <ogra_> after a few secs the led stops responding
[10:50] <sturmflut2> I created some graphs, a moment please
[10:52] <sturmflut2> http://hogsmeade.lieberbiber.de/eventstat-krillin.jpg
[10:53] <sturmflut2> So it goes into half-sleep immediately after it is locked, and then into deep sleep about 2.5 minutes later
[10:53] <ogra_> right
[10:53] <sturmflut2> One might ask why it's waiting for so long, but at least it goes into deep sleep
[10:54] <sturmflut2> http://hogsmeade.lieberbiber.de/eventstat-arale.jpg
[10:54] <ogra_> and about every 5 mins the polling mechanism for notifications kicks in
[10:54] <sturmflut2> The same thing on arale, but notice that the drop in kernel events is "compensated" by userspace
[10:54] <ogra_> which is th userspace spike you see arounf 410 min i guess
[10:54] <ogra_> err
[10:54] <ogra_> 410 sec
[10:55] <sturmflut2> I have to look up what the kernel spike on krillin is, around ~165 seconds
[10:55] <ogra_> arale still has issues with sleeping ... i think the wlan driver still doesnt let it sleep properly
[10:56] <ogra_> try the same with wlan disabled
[10:56] <sturmflut2> ogra_: This is with all radios disabled
[10:56] <ogra_> ah
[10:56] <ogra_> well, arale is still a lot busier :/
[10:59] <mcphail> sturmflut2: interesting to see arale has a big userspace spike where krillin has the kernelspace spike
[11:00] <sturmflut2> mcphail: Yes, and I am grepping through the logs to find out what and why
[11:02] <sturmflut2> cking: Err, could it be possible that eventstat sometimes counts kernel threads as userspace processes
[11:02] <sturmflut2> cking: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11761617/
[11:03] <sturmflut2> cking: Notice line 3, "kworker/0:2" is a kernel thread spawned by the PowerVR GPU driver, but it has an userspace-looking PID
[11:03] <ogra_> the scheduling and CPU management on the arale is done by a userspace daemon ...
[11:03] <cking> sturmflut2, is that in a container, if so, it is possuibel
[11:03] <ogra_> (bit litl hackery ... pertty awful)
[11:03] <ogra_> *pretty
[11:04] <ogra_> *big Litl
[11:04] <sturmflut2> cking, ogra_ : No, it is "real" kernel code, I looked at the Meizu kernel source
[11:04] <ogra_> sturmflut2, not the management of the cores
[11:04] <ogra_> thats done by a userspace tool
[11:04] <sturmflut2> ogra_: The referenced method, OSTimerWorkQueueCallBack, is part of the GPU driver
[11:04] <ogra_> (instead of cpufreq or cpuidle in kernel)
[11:05] <ogra_> yeah, but the thermal and load  monitoring comes from that daemon
[11:06] <cking> sturmflut2, I mean, are you running it in side a container?
[11:08] <sturmflut2> cking: No, I'm running eventstat outside any containers.
[11:09] <cking> ok, then it's a bug in eventstat for sure, I'll look into it sometime in the next week or so
[11:14] <sturmflut2> cking: Actually the information comes from /proc/timer_stats like this :/ And again the PID and comm fields don't seem to be correct, they show 17594 and "kworker/0:2", but there is no process or thread on the system with that PID and "kworker/0:2" actually has PID 17860
[11:14] <sturmflut2> cking: I hope I can come up with an explanation
[11:15] <cking> sturmflut2, perhaps it died between the timer_stats accounting and grabbing the data from /proc
[11:17] <cking> getting data from /proc/timer_stats and correlating it with processes data from /proc when processes are short lived is non-trivial and racy for sure
[11:18] <sturmflut2> cking: This entry doesn't seem to be short-lived, if I echo 1 > /proc/timer_stats and read the file back a couple of minutes later it has accumulated several thousand events, while it fires at 20 events/s
[11:27] <cking> it is strange, the timer_stats data does seem to be lying to us
[11:35] <cking> sturmflut2, the PID and COMM fields of the process are the ones associated with the timer when it was first created. it could be that the original parent spawned off a process and this inherited the timer and the parent died, hence making it impossible to track
[11:37] <cking> see timer_stats_hrtimer_set_start_info() in kernel/time/hrtimer.c, this shows this association.  And see timer_stats_update_stats() -  this updates the stats based on the data provided by the timer, so I can only deduce that the "missing PID" is because the the process that created the timer is now gone
[12:04] <sturmflut2> cking: Yeah, timer_stats_hrtimer_set_start_info() is called by __hrtimer_start_range_ns() which is called by various other *hrtimer_start* helpers, so the process information is filled in when the timer is started, not when it's created, but that's a minor technical detail
[12:05] <sturmflut2> cking: In the end the information comes from "current", the process that's currently running
[12:19] <sturmflut2> Okay, the graphs are wrong, it's most likely a bug in eventstat
[12:20] <sturmflut2> cking: Can I file a bug against it on Launchpad? The internal caching structures seem to get messed up when it runs for a prolonged amount of time
[12:21] <cking> sturmflut2, sure, I'll pop it on my todo list for this week
[12:22] <sturmflut2> \o/
[12:35] <hevyhomie> hello, i keep getting this on build: /usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lGL
[12:44] <sturmflut2> hevyhomie: What are you trying to build?
[12:44] <hevyhomie> touch
[12:44] <hevyhomie> for moto e
[12:45] <hevyhomie> to put it in context host SharedLib: libGLES_V2_translator (/home/fpirani/phablet/out/host/linux-x86/obj/lib/libGLES_V2_translator.so)
[12:45] <sturmflut2> cking: I reported it as bug 1467932, but can't assign it directly to you
[12:47] <hevyhomie> sturmflut2: http://pastebin.com/xpvG14j6
[12:47] <cking> sturmflut2, thanks, I've assigned it to me
[12:52] <hevyhomie> i check online, and i keep getting back something to do with linking error
[12:54] <sturmflut2> hevyhomie: You are trying to build Ubuntu Touch for x86 as it looks?
[12:54] <hevyhomie> no arm
[12:55] <sturmflut2> hm
[12:56] <hevyhomie> i think i will check back later
[12:56] <hevyhomie> sturmflut2: thanks
[13:37] <hevyhomie> hello i am building a port for moto e and I get this on "sudo make -j4" : http://pastebin.com/ca0cFG0B
[14:32] <jibel> ogra_, can you still reproduce bug 1465214 on latest arale? I cannot
[14:36] <sturmflut2> Oh, I completely missed arale r2
[14:39] <sturmflut2> Are there any release notes for it? Or does it "just" bring arale up to OTA-4 status, as communicated
[14:41] <sturmflut2> sil2100: Ping! I have a bunch of questions regarding your "Landing team" e-mails
[14:50] <sil2100> sturmflut2: hey! What's up?
[15:00] <sturmflut2> Wellark: Ping
[15:32] <sturmflut2> Hm, arale r1 doesn't restart on its own after it has downloaded and prepared the r2 update. The updater just sits there at the "restarting" screen with a spinning circle and "Working" flashing
[15:35] <sturmflut2> popey, svij: Did it update normally on your devices?
[15:35] <popey> i am not on the same channel as you
[15:36] <sturmflut2> "He's not human. He's on a different channel."
[15:40] <sturmflut2> barry, sil2100, ogra_ : Any logs I should collect right now? There's nothing interesting in /var/log/system-image/client.log
[15:42] <barry> sturmflut2: that probably means system-image did the right thing, but there are other problems with the update, is my guess.  are you stuck in recovery?
[15:45] <sturmflut2> barry: No, still in the fully booted r1 image. The phone never rebooted after downloading the update.
[15:45] <sturmflut2> barry: It has been stuck at http://hogsmeade.lieberbiber.de/screenshot20150623_173853921.png for half an hour now
[15:45] <sturmflut2> (sorry, it's in german)
[15:45] <barry> sturmflut2: that's okay. you can ssh into it still?
[15:46] <barry> or adb shell
[15:46] <sturmflut2> barry: Yeah, phablet-shell works fine
[15:46] <barry> sturmflut2: okay, and what is the last thing you see in client.log?
[15:47] <sturmflut2> barry: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11762853/
[15:48] <sturmflut2> barry: Looks fine overall, it just doesn't reboot
[15:48] <barry> sturmflut2: weird.  no idea.  what happens if you <gulp> manually reboot it?
[15:49] <sturmflut2> barry: I don't know, I thought it might be valuable to look at all the logs first ;)
[15:49] <barry> sturmflut2: good instincts :)
[15:49] <barry> sturmflut2: before you reboot...
[15:49] <sturmflut2> barry: ...developer instincts...
[15:50] <barry> sturmflut2: what happens if you do this:
[15:50] <barry> system-image-cli --dry-run -vv
[15:50] <barry> ?
[15:50] <barry> :)
[15:50] <tathhu> Rip.
[15:50] <sturmflut2> barry: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11762876/
[15:51] <sturmflut2> barry: The contents of /cache/recovery/ seem quite complete, all six tarballs are there and the sizes look reasonable
[15:52] <barry> sturmflut2: okay, so the next thing to try is system-image-cli -vv without the --dry-run.  that'll end up rebooting your device, assuming the reboot process itself isn't broken.
[15:52] <barry> but all reboot does is call `reboot -f recovery`
[15:52] <barry> so if that's broken, then yikes
[15:54] <sturmflut2> barry: Okay, manually running system-image-cli -vv triggered a reboot
[15:54] <barry> sturmflut2: what channel are you on?  when it comes back, can you do a system-image-cli --version to see which version of si you're using?
[15:55] <sturmflut2> barry: I'm on ubuntu-touch/stable/meizu.en/arale/ , the channel the device came with
[15:55] <barry> sturmflut2: then it all likelihood you're on system-image 2.5.1 hopefully
[15:58] <sturmflut2> barry: Came up fine, http://paste.ubuntu.com/11762931/ . I just asked the other Insiders, doesn't look like anybody besides me had this problem
[15:59] <sturmflut2> Which is typical
[15:59] <sturmflut2> I attract mayhem
[16:00] <barry> :)
[16:01] <barry> interesting too that you're on si 2.5.  i thought sil2100 uploaded 2.5.1 but i don't know to which channels.  probably wouldn't affect you anyway, since the only bug fix is to the phased update algorithm
[16:01] <sturmflut2> barry: Didn't 2.5.1 also contain the additional API for the production lines
[16:01] <sturmflut2> barry: Or was that added in an earlier version
[16:02] <barry> sturmflut2: nope, those appeared in 3.0
[16:03] <barry> which i believe is only in wily, though mvo is planning to pull that into snappy
[16:03] <barry> i don't think there are currently plans to put 3.0 in the touch channels, but it should probably happen at some point
[16:06] <mvo> barry: no plans to backport that for vivid, but there is a MP open to get 3.0 into snappy indeed, I think it just waits for review
[16:07] <barry> mvo: cool
[16:08] <sil2100> barry, sturmflut2: s-i 2.5.1 is in the overlay, so any rc-proposed image should have it
[16:08] <sil2100> I guess sturmflut2 is on the stable channel?
[16:11] <sturmflut2> sil2100: Yep, stable as a rock
[16:11] <sturmflut2> cking: If I look at the "Total PSS" value from smemstat and nothing has been swapped out, then that's the actual total amount of memory my whole userspace currently needs, right?
[16:12] <sturmflut2> Argh
[16:12] <sturmflut2> cking: If I look at the "Total PSS" value from smemstat and nothing has been swapped out, then that's the actual total amount of memory my whole userspace currently needs, right?
[16:13] <cking> sturmflut2, if trust what the kernel tells us, yes, I believe it is
[16:13] <cking> s/if trust/if we trust/
[16:14] <sturmflut2> cking: Let's say we trust the kernel ;)
[16:14] <cking> sturmflut2, well it is a snapshot, so the values may be changing dynamically and so it is a fair approximation since things change
[16:16] <pundir> hi.. need some help on getting console/shell access on boot. I dont have adb working yet but I do have serial/console access.
[16:16] <pundir> i'm not able to get shell prompt though. I tried modifying init.rc to launch /system/bin/sh unconditionally on boot but no luck so far.
[16:17] <sturmflut2> cking: Then there shouldn't normally be much difference between the Total PSS from smemstat and the "used" value reported by "free", minus caches and buffers, right? The kernel needs a bit of overhead, but both values should usually be quite close to each other?
[16:18] <cking> sturmflut2, off the top of my head, I can't recall, i'd need to re-read some kernel documentation to be 100% sure on that
[16:19] <sturmflut2> cking: At least I can confirm it empirically, on 90% of my systems "Total PSS" is a bit lower than "Used"
[16:20] <cking> sturmflut2, it sounds a reasonable assertion. I just recall that last time I tried to make comparisons I gave up trying to account for all the pages since the system accounting was too dynamic to be 100% correct
[16:24] <sturmflut2> cking: I agree, it's hard to get it 100% right, but on my arale the Used value is 50% higher than Total PSS, when the system is freshly booted and idle, without any variance over time, and I can't seem to find out what is eating memory
[16:26] <cking> sturmflut2, I guess one goes back to basics, does 'free' give sane stats?
[16:30] <sturmflut2> cking: Depends on the definition of "sane" for this device. See http://paste.ubuntu.com/11763095/ , it looks a bit high for my taste (658 MB Used without any app running?), definitely much higher than on krillin, but that could also partly be because the much higher display resolution on arale needs bigger image buffers
[16:31] <jgdx> pundir, what's serial/console?
[16:32] <jgdx> terminal app?
[16:37] <cking> sturmflut2, a lot of that is cached pages, when memory pressure gets higher these will be dropped
[16:40] <sturmflut2> cking: But shouldn't that field show the Used value *without* cached pages
[16:40] <sturmflut2> cking: If I look at /proc/meminfo and calculate MemTotal-MemFree-Buffers-Cached I get exactly 658M, the value that "free" shows in the second row under "used"
[16:41] <Robert_Zenz> Does somebody know where bug reports regarding notifications should go (in this case that they should not be displayed on the lockscreen)?
[16:43] <ogra_> Robert_Zenz, turning them off in the settings isnt enough for you ?
[16:43] <cking> sturmflut2, just to clarify, liniux will cache a lot of data on reads when there is memory free.  When memory pressure occurs, these pages get written (if they are dirty) or dropped (if not) and you get more "free memory" to work with
[16:43] <cking> so "free" memory is an illusion
[16:45] <Robert_Zenz> ogra_, oh, I see, thanks. But I have "Notifications and quick settings" turned off, yet incoming messages are still displayed as notification on the lockscreen. :/
[16:45] <ogra_> thats surely a bug then ...
[16:45] <cking> sturmflut2,  when you boot a system, there is bound to be a lot of pages in the cache, which will lower the apparent "free" memory
[16:46] <ogra_> Robert_Zenz, see the topic there is a link to a wikipage with pointes to the right components
[16:46] <cking> sturmflut2, however, most of those pages may be just read once and linux cached them just in case they are needed again, so they hang around until memory pressure evicts them
[16:46] <Robert_Zenz> ogra_, was there, didn't manage to find something regarding notifications. Though, maybe this would fall under System settings.
[16:47] <ogra_> Robert_Zenz, yeah, start from there ...
[16:47] <Robert_Zenz> ogra_, Thanks.
[16:47] <ogra_> people will triage the bug and if thats not right move it to the correct component
[16:48] <sturmflut2> cking: I am under the impression that the "MemFree" and "Cached" fields in /proc/meminfo are there to distinguish between caches and physical memory that's actually not currently being used. In the end I want to know if something in the kernel on this device is allocating lots memory, because contrary to all my other devices there seems to be a huge disparity between the amount of memory the userspace actually needs and the
[16:48] <sturmflut2> amount of used memory the kernel reports.
[16:49] <sturmflut2> cking: Because we actually seem to have problems with frequent OOM situations on this specific device, despite it having much more available memory than a comparable device
[16:52] <cking> sturmflut2, ack. I guess we boot 2 different phones and compare /proc/meminfo to get the top level idea of whats different, then we can drill down
[16:52] <Tm_T> ahh, the very minimal hotkeys for tmux and irssi use done with nano in phone term
[16:53] <Tm_T> the sleep for term sessions are pita ):
[16:53] <Tm_T> immediately if focus is somewhere else
[16:54] <sturmflut2> cking: Nice that we agree :) I think I am now ready to do some in-depth comparison of memory management on both phones
[16:54] <ogra_> cking, its quite a shame that neither alextu nor ycheng nor anyone else of that team is in the public channels ...
[16:55] <sturmflut2> ogra_: You can always give me access to the secret channels, you know
[16:55] <cking> ogra_, it would be useful, especially as I'm not focused on phone stuff at the moment
[16:55] <ogra_> sturmflut2, hahaha
[16:56] <ogra_> sturmflut2, i cant btw :) ... all in the hands of our mighty IT dept.
[16:56] <sturmflut2> ...and you just confirmed all the names of your secret developers
[16:56] <sturmflut2> ogra_: C'mon, you have freaking laser fridge satellites, surely you can give me access to anything
[16:57] <ogra_> pmcgowan, victorp, can we somehow make sure that some people from the arale team are around in public channels ... not sure you noticed all the profilling (power/memory) work that sturmflut2 and cking did today but it would be really helpful if not someone had to proxy all this stuff to them
[16:58] <sturmflut2> I am also fine with e-mail, doesn't have to be IRC
[16:58] <pmcgowan> ogra_, I can suggest it but most are also in asia
[16:59] <ogra_> sturmflut2, well, i expect there will be questions only they can answer once more people have the device
[16:59] <cking> i guess they are snoozing now
[16:59] <pmcgowan> sturmflut2, yes a report to phablet or a bug would be great
[16:59] <ogra_> pmcgowan, and asia doesnt allo public channels ?
[16:59] <ogra_> :P
[16:59] <ogra_> *allow
[16:59] <pmcgowan> they sleeping
[16:59] <pmcgowan> ;)
[16:59] <ogra_> sure
[16:59] <sturmflut2> I'm off home for the moment
[17:00] <popey> this channel is logged
[17:00] <popey> !logs
[17:01] <popey> so we can point them at the time stamped logs for this channel so they can catch up
[17:01] <ogra_> yeh
[17:01] <ogra_> +a
[17:31] <cwayne> mariogrip: heya, just got ubuntu installed via your multirom apk, worked like a charm :)
[17:31] <cwayne> as does apparmor
[17:31] <cwayne> although i'm having trouble getting adb working now (wonder if it's just a wily problem though)
[17:34] <dobey> what's the file manager app project on lp?
[17:38] <popey> dobey: lp:ubuntu-filemanager-app
[17:38] <popey> dobey: wassup?
[17:39] <dobey> moving bugs off this bogus "ubuntuphone" project before i rename it
[17:42] <popey> great!
[17:47] <dobey> there, now hopefully people won't mistakingly file bugs there
[18:11] <davmor2> cwayne: enable developer mode :P
[18:30] <SturmFlut> re
[19:18] <kwah> hi all
[19:19] <kwah> stupid? question: is it possible to copy/paste text between apps?
[19:19] <SturmFlut> kwah: Sure
[19:23] <kwah> Hm, having trouble with copying from Google Calendar to Notes app
[19:23] <andybrine> Good Evening Everyone
[19:24] <andybrine> Im looking to purchase a Ubuntu Phone and would love to get some feedback before buying it. Is it worth it?
[19:24] <popey> depends on your expectations :)
[19:24] <SturmFlut> ogra_, popey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/canonical-devices-system-image/+bug/1468077
[19:24] <andybrine> popey good point
[19:25] <andybrine> I would like a phone with a good camera for video and use it for social media and surfing the internet
[19:26] <andybrine> It just saw ubuntu released this phone: Meizu MX4
[19:26] <kwah> SturmFlut, did not manage. Made a screen shot.
[19:27] <SturmFlut> ogra_: I'll look at timer events on arale again when either bug 1467932 has been fixed or I've come up with my own cheap solution for /proc/timer_stats analysis, the graphs I created today are mostly worthless
[19:27] <andybrine> Can you run Google Maps on is also?
[19:29] <popey> andybrine: maps.google.co.uk works, there's no native google maps app, but there are others in the works
[19:29] <andybrine> popey ok, cool thanks
[19:30] <andybrine> So there is not a mapping and navigation application?
[19:30] <popey> there are a couple
[19:30] <popey> andybrine: https://uappexplorer.com/ is a view on the store
[19:30] <andybrine> ok cool, so that is the store?
[19:31] <popey> its a community maintained view of the store
[19:32] <andybrine> cool, it looks great! There are a lot of apps on there.
[19:35] <andybrine> in your opinion popey, is it worth getting a ubuntu phone for everyday use?
[19:37] <popey> I am slightly biassed
[19:37] <popey> I have 3
[19:37] <andybrine> wow!! Thats quite a lot!
[19:37] <popey> (I work for Canonical, along with many others here)
[19:38] <andybrine> yea, I thought that maybe the case :)
[19:38] <andybrine> I really do like Android
[19:38] <popey> stick with it then, keep an eye on ubuntu and maybe play with a device if someone near you has one
[19:38] <andybrine> have used ubuntu as my desktop for years! So could be swayed to use it :)
[19:39] <andybrine> I dont know anyone with a ubuntu phone
[19:39] <dobey> what device do you have now?
[19:39] <andybrine> I have a galaxy note 3
[19:39] <popey> you live near people who have them :)
[19:40] <dobey> oh
[19:42] <andybrine> Are there events to attend often then?
[19:42] <popey> not as many as we'd like
[19:43] <sonic_> hey its my first time using ubuntu and i think i may have to reinstall it because im having certain problems
[19:43] <sonic_> can someone help me?
[19:45] <mcphail> andybrine: I'm not employed by Canonical and I use the bq as my main phone. It is far from perfect, it isn't a complete replacement for Android or iOS, but I won't be switching back
[19:45] <andybrine> What is Ubuntu Touch like on other phones?
[19:46] <mcphail> I've only used it on the bq and the emulator
[19:46] <diego12345> hey can someone help me here?
[19:46] <diego12345> im trying to reinstall ubuntu because im having some problems
[19:46] <dobey> !ask | diego12345
[19:46] <anpok> andybrine: hm works great on nexus4..
[19:47] <andybrine> awesome thanks for letting me know mcphail! That gives me hope!
[19:47] <anpok> andybrine: other devices may have limitations.. as in bluetooth not yet being supported..
[19:47] <diego12345> sorry for that
[19:47] <andybrine> oh right, I dont use bluetooth a lot to be honest anpok
[19:48] <dobey> diego12345: #ubuntu is the support channel for ubuntu. are you talking about ubuntu on your PC, or on a phone/tablet?
[19:48] <anpok> andybrine: bt does work.. i think it does not work on nexus5 and nexus10 .. but there are more information if you at the devices page
[19:48] <diego12345> on my laptop, it seems to freeze when im browsing and opening some applications
[19:49] <andybrine> I bought my note 3 off ebay a year and a half back. Its an awsome phone but after 3 months it stopped working. Only to realise that my phone was blacklisted!
[19:49] <anpok> andybrine: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Devices
[19:49] <andybrine> Note to self! DONT BUY OFF EBAY :P
[19:49] <andybrine> thats ok anpok, I may install it on the note 3
[19:50] <anpok> no note 3 port yet
[19:50] <andybrine> really!?!?! Damn it!!
[19:50] <diego12345> by the way im running 14.04.02 right now on a sony vaio vgn-cs31s
[19:50] <dobey> diego12345: please ask in #ubuntu then
[19:51] <kwah> diego12345, freezes may be due to various reasons... you may better join #ubuntu since this channel is for ubuntu-phone devices
[19:51] <anpok> andybrine: there is a porting guide but it requires technical knowledge and a certain amount of patience..
[19:51] <andybrine> I need a new phone as I have a really only phone that is now on the brink so will need to get a new phone soon
[19:52] <diego12345> yeah i just noticed that, im really sorry.. im really new to your environment and i dont get all the terms yet but thanks anyway
[19:52] <andybrine> anpok I have rooted many devices if that helps
[19:52] <dobey> anpok: and a willingness to totally break your phone
[19:52] <anpok> ah yes that too
[19:52] <dobey> anpok: which most people probably don't want to do to their only phone :)
[19:53] <anpok> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/porting-new-device/
[19:53] <mcphail> andybrine: the bq4.5 is a bargain, and if you don't like Ubuntu you can reflash it to android
[19:53] <anpok> bq5 is a bargain plus few bucks
[19:53] <andybrine> mcphail ok, I may give that a shot
[19:53] <anpok> :)
[19:53] <andybrine> its really cheap and looks great
[19:53] <andybrine> whats the camera like?
[19:54] <SturmFlut> Hmmm, this is strange. /usr/share/ofono/scripts/list-operators usually lists all the operators in the area, not just the active one, right?
[19:54] <mcphail> andybrine: better than my S3 was running cyanogenmod, but worse than my S3 running stock ROM
[19:54] <andybrine> can it take nice pictures and video?
[19:54] <andybrine> can it record in hd?
[19:55] <mcphail> andybrine: fine for my needs, but I'm one of those odd people who carries a real camera around
[19:55] <andybrine> hahaha
[19:55] <andybrine> thats all good mcphail
[19:55] <SturmFlut> okay, I hace to trigger a network search on arale to get all operators
[19:55] <SturmFlut> have
[19:55] <andybrine> My camera on the Note 3 is awesome! but no replacement for a SLR
[19:55] <andybrine> I love it
[19:56] <mcphail> I've only taken the odd snap on my phone, and all in decent daylight. Haven't tested it out too much
[19:57] <andybrine> thats ok. I may have to keep my note 3 as a bricked phone
[19:57] <SturmFlut> awe: Ping
[19:58] <andybrine> it still works well apart from the fact I can dial out or receive calls
[19:58] <andybrine>  Can't
[20:17] <mcphail> Do people still run LUGs? If so, would probably be useful to take a phone to your nearest LUG to let people see it. Would give people like andybrine a chance to check it out
[20:28] <SturmFlut> mpt: Ping
[20:36] <dobey> mcphail: yes, and some people have done that :)
[20:38] <andybrine> sorry, just seen your message mcphail
[20:38] <andybrine> What do you mean by LUGs?
[20:41] <dobey> andybrine: linux user groups
[20:41] <andybrine> oh right yea. That would be good.
[20:42] <andybrine> Im a techy so I think I could work out how to do it
[20:44] <popey> andybrine: there is a LUG near you :)
[20:44] <andybrine> can you see my location? :)
[20:44] <andybrine> lol
[20:44] <andybrine> just curious
[20:45] <andybrine> where is the LUG near me?
[20:45] <popey> I assume you're in Southampton?
[20:45] <popey> (from your IP)
[20:46] <popey> Hampshire LUG your nearest, if so.
[20:46] <mcphail> andybrine: you must realise, popey is omnipresent and omnipotent
[20:47] <popey> It's not as active as it was - like many LUGs
[20:47] <andybrine> Lol, good job popey!
[20:47] <SturmFlut> Where is this "Lewisham"
[20:47] <popey> I'm about 40 miles from you, in Farnborough
[20:47] <andybrine> Oh right cool
[20:47] <andybrine> reasonably close
[20:48] <andybrine> I will have to pop along to one
[20:48] <andybrine> would be interesting to see your ubuntu phone
[20:48] <andybrine> or phones!!!
[20:48] <andybrine> lol
[20:48] <popey> :)
[20:48] <popey> Yeah, we should organise a hantslug event
[20:48] <popey> I would point you at the website but it looks down
[20:48]  * popey pokes someone
[20:49] <andybrine> that would be good, I would def come along
[20:49] <andybrine> Just out of interest, how much are you selling your ubuntu phone for?
[20:49] <andybrine> I can come and pick it up
[20:50] <andybrine> :p
[20:50] <popey> haha
[20:50] <popey> I'm never selling it :)
[20:51] <popey> in fact I'm buying another one next month :)
[20:51] <popey> Gotta catch 'em all!
[20:51] <andybrine> hahaha
[20:51] <andybrine> cool
[20:52] <andybrine> Do you have the latest one then?
[20:52] <popey> I have the bq E4.5 but not the E5
[20:53] <andybrine> I didnt realise there was an E5
[20:53] <popey> yeah, couple of weeks back that came out
[20:53] <popey> better cameras, higher res display
[20:54] <andybrine> looks really nie
[20:54] <andybrine> nice*
[20:55] <andybrine> still a very reasonable price! May have to get one myself!
[20:56] <andybrine> So popey, do you develop the apps?
[20:57] <andybrine> or building the mobile system itself?
[20:57] <popey> I work on the community team
[20:57] <popey> working with community people who develop some of the apps
[20:58] <popey> music, calendar, calculator, weather and a bunch of others are community maintained
[20:59] <mhall119> popey is basically the reason half of the default-isntalled apps exist at all
[20:59] <popey> hah, hardly
[20:59] <popey> cat herder
[21:01] <mhall119> he didn't write the apps, but he was the instrumental is getting them written by recruiting and helping the amazing core apps development teams
[21:02] <mhall119> don't let his British humbleness fool you, the guy is pretty awesome
[21:03] <andybrine> awesome!! That is cool! Great Job!!
[21:04] <andybrine> Though I have not seen a ubuntu phone yet, it does look awesome!
[21:15] <andybrine> Quick question, if I was to buy a BQ E5
[21:15] <andybrine> Will I be able to put ubuntu on it easy enough?
[21:16] <popey> it comes with ubuntu
[21:17] <popey> http://www.bq.com/gb/aquaris-e5-ubuntu-edition
[21:46] <awe> Sturmflut, pong ( disclaimer, I'm back out the door in ~15m to go see Rush )
[21:48] <SturmFlut> awe: In that case, see you tomorrow ;)
[21:49] <awe> Sturmflut, ok thanks!  I should be around all day tomorrow
[21:49] <SturmFlut> \o/
[22:05] <andybrine> cool i will get one in the next few weeks now