[06:46] <KnightWork> good morning peeps
[07:00] <MooDoo> morning all
[07:01] <KnightWork> Morning Moodoo
[07:01] <KnightWork> how are you
[07:01] <MooDoo> I'm ok what about you
[07:02] <KnightWork> Doin ok :) been taking the Dell XPS13 to work with me today. Lovely machine !
[07:39] <bashrc> morning
[07:43] <KnightWork> hey bashrc
[08:36] <davmor2> Morning all
[08:47] <KnightWork> hey davmor2 , how are you
[08:48] <davmor2> KnightWork: good thanks you?
[08:54] <KnightWork> Doin ok :) Tinkering with the XPS13 here :)
[08:58] <KnightWork> popey: i'm going to do an episode on the XPS13 (first impressions and such) if you need anything for your podcast let me know (i noticed you talked about it last week)
[09:05] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Let It Go Day! 😃
[09:08]  * davmor2 drops the heavy weight on JamesTait 's foot after letting it go :D
[09:08]  * KnightWork sings "let it go" from Frozen , dressed in a light blue full-body swimsuit with flippers and feathers
[09:09] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[09:09] <JamesTait> Very fetching.
[09:09]  * KnightWork holds brobostigon over a cliff and "lets it go"
[09:09] <zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
[09:10] <JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
[09:10]  * KnightWork does the same for zmoylan-pi 
[09:10] <zmoylan-pi> i don't sing disney songs
[09:11] <brobostigon> morning JamesTait
[09:11]  * KnightWork thinks about having "bowel movements" on "let it go" day and if that is a good idea
[09:11]  * brobostigon is ouchie now, :(
[09:15] <Myrtti> I wish I knew why my firefox keeps logging me out of Mozilla Sync
[09:23] <davmor2> Myrtti: it's trying to tell you to move to chrome
[09:24] <Myrtti> I've used Firefox for a few years after a long stint of using Chrome, and I still can't remember why I made the original switch. Possibly had something to do with HTTPS Everywhere being available as an extension on Android too
[09:26] <Myrtti> "Loaded to vehicle for delivery" but why hasn't the van moved, why????!!?!?!?!?
[09:27] <zmoylan-pi> coffee and a kitkat first :-P
[09:32] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: man if you are still on kitkat you really need a new phone, buy an ubuntu one :D
[09:36] <zmoylan-pi> i think my last android phone was gingerbread :-)
[09:36] <zmoylan-pi> my first was donut
[09:37] <zmoylan-pi> both sitting on a shelf beside me
[09:37] <zmoylan-pi> replaced by featurephone nokias
[10:22] <daftykins> favouring chrome over firefox? crazy talk
[10:25] <zmoylan-pi> lynx forever \o/
[10:25] <awilkins> I switched back to Firefox relatively recently
[10:25] <awilkins> When I'm doing CSS I really dig the whole 3D rendering thing, actually
[10:32] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[10:35] <davmor2> zmoylan-pi: pff you and your fancy lynx w3m for the win
[10:36] <zmoylan-pi> wget? :-D
[12:09] <Myrtti> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cbeebies/grownups/clangers-knitting-pattern
[12:21] <daftykins> :D
[12:21] <daftykins> zomg do it
[12:53] <ujjain> is 50grams of sugar in a drink much?
[12:55] <daftykins> http://bit.ly/1N4Cf0j
[12:55] <daftykins> hrmm Kodi exploit
[12:58] <TwistedLucidity> Nice. Not.
[12:59] <awilkins> 50 grams?!?
[12:59] <awilkins> 50 grams is the dose of glucose they use to bring you out of a diabetic hypoglycaemic coma
[13:00] <awilkins> Or about 12 teaspoons of sugar
[13:01] <awilkins> Yes, it's a lot of sugar
[13:03] <TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Depends on how big the bottle is.....
[13:04] <TwistedLucidity> A 2l bottle of pop isn't usually considered a single serving
[13:04] <bigcalm> That would make for a hearty G&T
[13:05] <awilkins> I use the Fever Tree (light) now
[13:05] <awilkins> It uses fructose which is sweeter than sucrose so less required to make it equivalently sweet
[13:06] <awilkins> Can of coke is 8 teaspoons
[13:06] <awilkins> Also, all the other brands of tonic water now have some kind of artificial sweetner in them
[13:07] <awilkins> Some supermarkets had a "premium" tonic line for a while that just used sucrose (Asda!)
[13:07] <awilkins> But they've all abandoned it. Even Schweppes is full of saccharin
[13:07] <awilkins> All leave a horrible gakky aftertaste in the mouth
[13:08] <awilkins> If I'm drinking something designed to have a delicate and subtle flavour like gin, I don't want to taste gak.
[13:09] <ujjain> awilkins, I have a innocent super smoothie
[13:09] <ujjain> ah, contains naturally occursing sugars from fruit
[13:09] <ujjain> mabye that's different
[13:10] <TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Fevertree FTW!
[13:10] <awilkins> ujjain, It's still sugar, but at least the pulp helps you absorb it a *little* less quickly
[13:11] <ujjain> argh, and I thought that little can of 223 calories would help me lose weight
[13:11] <TwistedLucidity> ujjain: Sugar is sugar. Even fructose isn't /that/ much better than glucose
[13:11] <ujjain> it was innocent and healthy on the outside
[13:11] <ujjain> 355ml bottle
[13:11] <awilkins> Heh, they like their image
[13:11] <TwistedLucidity> ujjain: Water with a shot of lemon juice
[13:11] <awilkins> Tea with no milk
[13:12] <awilkins> Tea is supposed to be healthier than water as long as you take it with no sugar
[13:12] <awilkins> It has water in it. Plus antioxidants.
[13:12] <ujjain> I am trying water+ephedrine, seems to help.
[13:12] <zmoylan-pi> there are lots of different kinds of tea.
[13:12] <awilkins> Ephedrine? You have hay fever?
[13:12] <ujjain> nops
[13:12] <awilkins> Or are you a Mormon?
[13:13] <ujjain> moron or mormon lol
[13:13] <TwistedLucidity> Tea with full-fat moo-juice, please
[13:13] <awilkins> Mormons aren't allowed caffeine
[13:13] <ujjain> ah right
[13:13] <awilkins> So they cheat with ephedrine tea
[13:13] <ujjain> ah lol
[13:13] <awilkins> Religion : absolute rules were made to be wiggled around
[13:13] <TwistedLucidity> Yeah, cuz god will forgive a cheat :-S
[13:13] <ujjain> like jews with their cannot push button systems,
[13:14] <TwistedLucidity> Losing weight is fairly simple. Eat less, do more.
[13:14] <TwistedLucidity> Easy...I never said it was easy. Only simple.
[13:15] <popey> ujjain: what? push buttons?
[13:15]  * TwistedLucidity could stand to lose (or redistribute) around 4kg
[13:15] <awilkins> popey, Jews are not allowed to work on the sabbath
[13:15] <ujjain> "Why Is Pressing a Button Considered Work on Shabbat "
[13:15] <ujjain> Shabbat elevator
[13:15] <popey> oh, i see
[13:15] <TwistedLucidity> Which is...moronic. Sorry, but it is.
[13:15] <popey> all mentals, all of them
[13:16] <ujjain> instead of pushing the button, they turn or pull it lol
[13:16] <TwistedLucidity> popey: I'll have you know I work with a Jew...actually...you're probably right. :-)
[13:17] <awilkins> Things like that give lie to the notions that i) Being religious gives you a moral compass ii) Being an atheist means you don't have one
[13:17] <awilkins> You'll find a way around the rules if you want to
[13:17] <TwistedLucidity> awilkins: I'll have you know that as a devout atheist I only eat babies who asked for it!
[13:17] <awilkins> And you'll stick to your principles if they matter
[13:18] <awilkins> Being told that the rules are the most important thing is probably counterproductive
[13:19] <TwistedLucidity> I am forming a religion on how I think my dog views the world. It has three pillars: "Can I play with it?", "Can I eat it?" and "Boring"
[13:19] <ujjain> Yeah, it's a shame. But what you gonna do about it. Much of my family really seems obsessed with going to Mecca many times. I meet Brazilian girls, they do nothing else than praising god.
[13:19] <ujjain> lol
[13:20] <TwistedLucidity> I'd like to go to Mecca...if it didn't mean entering Saudi Arabia.
[13:20] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: people look at you strange when you ask for a full fat Coke/Pepsi I've no idea why they have a diet version and have no questions on that version :)
[13:21] <awilkins> You want to meet the kind of Brazilian girl who's more into Carnival really...
[13:21] <ujjain> ah yeah, although most of them probably wouldn't be the brightest
[13:21] <ujjain> I drink a lot of diet coke.
[13:21] <ujjain> to avoid getting calories, full coke seems to have so many.
[13:21] <popey> pepsi max > diet coke
[13:21] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: I don't drink Coke due to their business practices. And if I want a 'ginger' it's more likely to be that - ginger beer.
[13:22] <ujjain> I read the bad stories about diet coke, but still seems better than 120 calories per can
[13:22] <TwistedLucidity> And there's a question for the UK - why in the name of the wee man can't I get a decent root beer in this country?
[13:22] <directhex> i'm not going to waste full-sugar soda calories on mass market crud like coke or pepsi
[13:22] <directhex> TwistedLucidity: because root beer is culturally an american thing
[13:22] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: you can,  Fentimans Ginger Beer is awesome
[13:23] <TwistedLucidity> directhex: We have dandelion and burdock, but it's usually too sweet
[13:23] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Still verging on too sweet
[13:23] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: Also Fentimans Dandilion and burdock
[13:23] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Too sweet
[13:23] <popey> i wonder if geoff (who left himself logged in at heathrow airport once) still works for fentemens
[13:24] <TwistedLucidity> I fell in love with root beer in the USA
[13:24] <popey> i sent him an email from himself... Subj: things to do today.  1) Change password.
[13:24] <directhex> i just want good cola
[13:24] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: yeah but they use corn syrup in everything rather than sugar
[13:24] <directhex> apparently good cola is not a thing the market wants
[13:24] <TwistedLucidity> davmor2: Yeah, that's a problem
[13:24] <directhex> all good colas have eventually been removed from sale due to nobody buying it
[13:24] <TwistedLucidity> directhex: Fenteman' Curiosity Cola is OK
[13:25] <directhex> because people won't pay extra for good cola
[13:25] <directhex> TwistedLucidity: too carbonated, and too acidic (phosphoric acid too, which is a cheap choice of ingredient)
[13:25] <directhex> their cherry is a bit better
[13:25] <ujjain> geoff is a regular irc guy ?
[13:25] <popey> no
[13:26] <popey> some dude who left himself logged in
[13:26] <davmor2> TwistedLucidity: oddly Americans hate their Coke but love the UK Coke, they mostly drink Diet because it tastes better
[13:26] <popey> well, technically he didn't but I guessed his password was "geoff"
[13:26] <directhex> davmor2: well, that's more of an international production issue. coke made in the usa uses corn for sugar, which tastes more gloopy & syrupy than the beet sugar we use in europe
[13:27] <davmor2> popey: ala https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6C_HjWr3Nk
[13:27] <popey> nope, not clicking
[13:27] <directhex> i always feel like hfcs coke is sticking to the inside of my mouth
[13:27] <davmor2> popey: it's not music
[13:27] <popey> eddie izzard?
[13:27] <awilkins> HFCS is horrible
[13:27] <davmor2> popey: you know me so well :)
[13:28] <awilkins> One of the examples of bacteria enzymes making something worse than the original product...
[13:30] <davmor2> popey: geoff geoftygeoff
[13:30] <popey> :)
[13:44] <daftykins> you'll still need a tray
[15:00] <Azelphur> Hey folks, thinking of doing a NAS / Streaming / Transcoding build, http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/MpNFxr what do we think of these parts?
[15:07] <intrbiz> bigcalm: ping
[15:46] <daftykins> such a sunny dat here, check this out - https://www.dropbox.com/s/cqjlijvo5cytiwx/IMG_20150623_154630.jpg?dl=0
[15:46] <daftykins> *day too
[15:46] <daftykins> Azelphur: eww transcoding
[15:46] <daftykins> :D
[16:06] <bigcalm> intrbiz: pong
[17:36] <diddledan> allo
[18:06] <ali1234> tl;dr approximately how much will it cost me to use a AWS instance with 32GB of ram for 1 day?
[18:06] <diddledan> 1 day is prolly quite cheap
[18:08] <awilkins> Can't you get an account for free?
[18:08] <awilkins> And a year's free trial?
[18:08] <ali1234> yeah but not high memory instances
[18:08] <ali1234> although maybe you can use the free credits however you want, i don;t know
[18:08] <diddledan> you'd be looking at an m4.2xlarge instance which is 0.504$/hr or $12.10 for exactly 24 hours
[18:09] <awilkins> http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/
[18:09] <awilkins> ^^ what he said
[18:09] <ali1234> cheers diddledan
[18:09] <awilkins> 0.05c more in Ireland!!
[18:09] <ali1234> i guess i'll just rewrite this program to not use silly amounts of ram
[18:09] <diddledan> lol
[18:09] <awilkins> What's the progra?
[18:10] <awilkins> What's it written in?
[18:10] <ali1234> metapixel
[18:10] <ali1234> C
[18:10] <awilkins> Hrrmph
[18:10] <awilkins> Well, can't help with that then :-)
[18:10] <diddledan> for a 30 day month that comes to $362.88
[18:10] <awilkins> If you had say, lots of stuff in a TreeMap in a Java program I can cut that down a lot
[18:11] <knightwise> oooKey ...;
[18:11] <knightwise> My Dell XPS 13 just outperformed my Macbook pro.
[18:11] <knightwise> i'm impressed
[18:12] <diddledan> awilkins: if you were to have the instance always online then reserving the machine will save around 30-40%
[18:12] <knightwise>  
[18:12] <diddledan> erm, ali1234
[18:12] <ali1234> metapixel makes photomosaics
[18:13] <davmor2> knightwise: \o/
[18:13] <ali1234> i have ~32000 16x16 images, to be turned into a (1920*4)x(1080*4) image
[18:13] <ali1234> in order to do this it needs 24GB of ram, which it mallocs in one huge block
[18:13] <ali1234> plus all the other ram it uses
[18:13] <diddledan> ali1234: paying completely upfront for a 1year term will cost $2541 but that saves 42% over the on-demand cost I cited above - so that equates to an hourly charge of $0.2901 (but you pay it regardless of whether the machine is turned-on or not)
[18:14] <ali1234> diddledan: i just need to do this one thing :)
[18:14] <diddledan> ali1234: gotcha
[18:14] <ali1234> for those prices i'd just get a new computer with 32GB
[18:14] <awilkins> ali1234, Would it work with swap?
[18:14] <diddledan> on-demand is awesome for "do[ing] one thing"
[18:14] <ali1234> awilkins: probably but it would take ages
[18:15] <diddledan> swap is almost never the solution
[18:15] <diddledan> it slows things up far too much to be useful IMO
[18:15] <ali1234> this thing already takes like 4 hours to run on a smaller set that does fit in 16GB
[18:15] <ali1234> alternatively, anyone know a more efficient photomosaic tool?
[18:21] <diddledan> interesting confusion over windows 10 over the weekend
[18:21] <ali1234> uff
[18:21] <ali1234> so, C question... how do i make the compiler pack the struct optimally rather than aligning everything to 32bit?
[18:24] <diddledan> seems that if you're using beta versions after release of rtm (subsequent betas, not the pre-rtm betas) then you can use them for free (if you're a windows-insider). however, if you want gold versions then you either need to buy a license or have the win10 as an upgrade to a validly licensed version of win7 or win8.1. The confusion seems to have stemmed from these two concepts in addition to win10 pre-rtms that were
[18:24] <diddledan>  upgraded from a validly licensed win7 or win8.1 will stay activated but those that weren't upgraded from win7 or win8.1 won't remain activated
[18:24] <diddledan> ali1234: I didn't know it did that
[18:25] <diddledan> ali1234: but I rarely touch C
[18:25] <ali1234> yep... so the problem is i need to malloc 1 billion of some struct
[18:25] <diddledan> ouch
[18:25] <diddledan> so even if you're using booleans they'll be 32bits?
[18:25] <diddledan> that's wasteful
[18:25] <ali1234> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11763720/ <- the struct
[18:25] <ali1234> now x and y can never be more than 240
[18:26] <ali1234> so i made it unsigned char, but it uses the exact same amount of memory
[18:26] <diddledan> try short int?
[18:26] <diddledan> afaik char is just a synonym of int
[18:27] <ali1234> nope
[18:27] <directhex> u8
[18:28] <directhex> unsigned char is 1 byte, 0-255
[18:28] <diddledan> aha
[18:28] <diddledan> that'll do it
[18:28] <directhex> int is 2 or 4 depending on arch
[18:30] <ali1234> nope
[18:31] <ali1234> directhex: my problem is alignment in a struct
[18:31] <directhex> oh
[18:31] <directhex> yuck
[18:31] <ali1234> see paste, i need that struct to occupy less than 16 bytes
[18:32] <ali1234> or, well, 16 bytes would be okay too probably
[18:32] <diddledan> kasperski got hacked - apparantly to determine whether they were known about - thereby getting caught and now known about - seems a bit of a stupid idea to hack a security company
[18:32] <ali1234> i can make x and y uchar, but it doesn't make the struct any smaller
[18:40] <awilkins> Because of packing
[18:40] <awilkins> Put x and y in a single 2 byte integer
[18:41] <awilkins> Hmm
[18:41] <awilkins> So metapixel_t is a pointer
[18:42] <ali1234> actually... make clean seems to have fixed it
[18:42] <awilkins> Pah
[18:42] <awilkins> The Microsoft Solution - starting again!!!
[18:42] <awilkins> :P
[18:43] <ali1234> threw some #pragma pack() in there too
[19:00] <ali1234> looks like i'm writing my own thing from scratch then
[19:09] <popey> ali1234: you can get a digital ocean box with 64GB RAM for ~1$ per hour
[19:09] <popey> 640GB SSD, 9TB transfer :)
[19:10] <popey> has 20CPUs too
[19:10] <ali1234> so twice the price of amazon... but probably a lot less hassle. thanks
[19:10] <ali1234> i'm gonna write my own mosaic tool anyway... i'll make it keep everything on disk
[19:10] <popey> oh, they have a 32GB one for half that
[19:10] <popey> 48c/h
[19:10] <ali1234> cool, that's competitive then
[19:10] <popey> careful of dem patents :)
[19:10] <ali1234> patents?
[19:11] <popey> yeah, photomosaic process is patented
[19:11] <popey> the guy who did it is very litigious (sp?)
[19:11] <ali1234> references? if it's patented then i can just copy his algo :)
[19:11] <popey> heh
[19:12] <popey> maybe http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=EP&NR=0852363&KC=&FT=E&locale=en_EP
[19:12] <popey> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographic_mosaic#Trademark_and_intellectual_property_of_the_concept
[19:12] <ali1234> wow, that first one is totally bogus
[19:12] <ali1234> that's like the most obvious possible way to do it
[19:14] <diddledan> 1998 - there really isn't any prior art?!
[19:15] <diddledan> seriously. the american patent system is whacked
[19:15] <diddledan> especially when people patent something and then release it open source and then moan when people use that source
[21:51] <diddledan> the song "forever autumn" from jess wayne's war of the worlds is awesome
[21:51] <diddledan> jeff*
[21:53] <diddledan> to be fair the whole musical version is pretty decent
[22:28] <daftykins> dan of the diddle!
[22:28]  * diddledan diddles daftykins'dan
[22:28] <daftykins> diddledan: did you catch my lovely summers day snap? https://www.dropbox.com/s/cqjlijvo5cytiwx/IMG_20150623_154630.jpg?dl=0
[22:29] <diddledan> ooh, purdy
[22:41] <popey> Myrtti: saw this and thought of you https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/fbz/knityak-custom-mathematical-knit-scarves
[22:49] <Myrtti> popey: the instructions were on ravelry just few days ago... mm
[22:49] <popey> :)
[22:51] <Myrtti> I got the knitting machine working
[22:52] <popey> \o/