[07:00] <dholbach> good morning
[07:11] <fgimenez> good morning
[07:44] <davidcalle> Morning all o/
[08:41] <Chipaca> mo'in
[08:42] <ogra_> moin moin
[08:47] <mvo> hey Chipaca
[08:47] <Chipaca> mvo: hi there
[08:47] <Chipaca> mvo: how's the sprint? what have you broken *now*?
[08:48] <Chipaca> :)
[08:49] <mvo> Chipaca: sprint is interessting, we can talk next week :)
[08:49] <Chipaca> mvo: ok
[08:50] <Chipaca> mvo: wink your left eye if you are held against your will and can't talk about it
[08:50] <mvo> lol
[08:51]  * mvo winks
[08:51] <ogra_> lol
[08:51]  * Chipaca hopes that was the right eye
[08:53] <ogra_> wasnt the left eye the right eye ?
[09:07] <Chipaca> ogra_: only if was held against his will
[09:24] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Chocolate Pudding Day! 😃
[09:25] <ogra_> yummy !!
[09:25] <ogra_> though i prefer icecream at this weather
[10:06] <pitti> ogra_: mmmm, ice cream!
[10:09] <ogra_> :D
[10:10] <ogra_> (sadly i cant ... recovering from a jaw infection kind of goes against it :/ )
[11:12]  * Chipaca -> lunch
[11:23] <mvo> sergiusens: fwiw, I triggered a build with the new livecd rootfs so that we can test the deb/apt less system
[11:24] <ogra_> well, semi-deb-less :)
[11:24] <ogra_> dpkg itself is still there
[11:25] <ljose> I have just installed snappy in beaggle board, following steps in https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/start/#try-beaglebone
[11:25] <ljose> ssh ubuntu@webdm.local
[11:25] <ljose> ssh: Could not resolve hostname webdm.local: Name or service not known
[11:25] <ogra_> sergiusens, the shadow patch looks good to me, but i would like to have slangasek take a look before we land that (i think he looked into it before)
[11:25] <ogra_> ljose, whats the system you run the ssh command on
[11:25] <ljose> Ubuntu 15.04
[11:26] <ogra_> (ubuntu ? )
[11:26] <mvo> ogra_: :)
[11:26] <ogra_> hmm, that should have the avahi daemon
[11:26] <ljose> kubuntu actually
[11:26] <Chipaca> ljose: and you got the 15.04 xz?
[11:27] <ogra_> webdm.local is resolved using an avahi mDNS request
[11:27] <ogra_> if both devices are on the same network and your desktop has the avahi bits installed it should just work ...
[11:27] <Chipaca> ah, kubuntu might not have that, good point
[11:27] <ogra_> i'm not sure kubuntu installs the avahi parts ... though i wouldnt know why if they dont :)
[11:28] <Chipaca> kubuntu-desktop pulls it in
[11:28] <Chipaca> as a task
[11:28] <ogra_> yeah, would be weird if it didnt
[11:29] <Chipaca> ljose: could you check you have avahi-daemon installed?
[11:29] <Chipaca> wait, not the daemon
[11:29] <Chipaca> hm
[11:29] <ogra_> ljose, the first setip runs cloud-init to set up the user and ssh keys etc ... that can take a few minutes ... did you wait a while before trying it ?
[11:29] <Chipaca> libnss-mdns
[11:29] <Chipaca> ljose: ^
[11:29] <ogra_> Chipaca, avahi-daemon is also a client :)
[11:29] <ljose> Chipaca: more than 10 minutes
[11:29] <ogra_> yeah, after 10min it should be done
[11:30] <ljose>  /dev/sdd is the device and seems to have any partitions now after "dd"
[11:31] <Chipaca> ljose: silly question, is the bbb's ethernet plugged in to the network?
[11:31] <ljose> just USB
[11:31] <Chipaca> ljose: that won't work then
[11:31] <ljose> doesn't work like the original image over USB?
[11:31] <Chipaca> ljose: we don't bring up the usb device
[11:31] <Chipaca> ljose: no
[11:31] <Chipaca> ljose: we should, probably/maybe, but right now don't
[11:32] <ogra_> right, by default only the onboard ethernet is brought up on boot
[11:32] <Chipaca> the usb one would be so much more convenient
[11:32] <ljose> let's plug the network and see
[11:32] <Chipaca> you usually plug the usb in to power the thing anyway
[11:33] <ogra_> you might need to reboot
[11:33] <Chipaca> at least while testing :)
[11:33] <ogra_> i'm not sure webdm will start dynamically if you now plug it in
[11:33] <ogra_> (geez, whats up in france !! /me just watches the news on the side)
[11:40] <davmor2> ogra_: France is a big place could you be a little more specific?
[11:41] <Chipaca> davmor2: beheading close to lyon
[11:41] <Chipaca> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-33287095
[11:55] <ljose> Same problem after connect network cable, and avahi-daemon is running, any ideas?
[11:55] <ogra_> did you reboot the BBB ?
[11:55] <ljose> yep
[11:55] <ogra_> hmm
[11:56] <ogra_> can you reach it by IP ?
[11:56] <ogra_> ssh ubuntu@<IP> should work too
[11:57] <ljose> I reboot the BBB but there isn't any blinking leds , that seems odd
[11:57] <ljose> just the power, and network leds
[11:57] <ogra_> yeah, at least during boot something should blink
[11:57] <ogra_> do you have a serial cable to check the boot ?
[11:58] <ljose> usb?
[11:58] <ogra_> FTDI
[11:58] <ogra_> something like http://www.amazon.com/Ftdi-TTL-232r-3v3-Serial-Converter-Cable/dp/B00M41OUYA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1432041571&sr=8-1&keywords=FTDI+to+TTL+3.3
[11:59] <ogra_> (pretty essential when working with embedded boards)
[11:59] <ljose> I don't have this right now
[11:59] <ogra_> ah, sad, would have been helpful to see whats goiing on
[12:00] <ljose> should I see the flash partitions when connect the USB cable?
[12:00] <ljose> I see /dev/sdd but no partitions there
[12:01] <Chipaca> ljose: yes, you should see four partitions
[12:01] <ogra_> no, you shouldnt
[12:01] <Chipaca> no?
[12:01] <Chipaca> dah
[12:01] <ogra_> we dont even enable the USB gadget
[12:01] <Chipaca> the usb cable
[12:01] <Chipaca> no
[12:01] <Chipaca> sorry
[12:01] <Chipaca> the sd card, yes
[12:01] <ogra_> i dont get how you see /dev/sdd though
[12:02] <ogra_> since that driver isnt on in our images it shouldnt create such a device ...
[12:02] <ogra_> are you sure it is booting from SD at all ?
[12:03] <ogra_> (try rebooting with the user button (S2) pressed)
[12:04] <ljose> I just install the image in /dev/sdd , that was the BBB device
[12:04] <ljose> attached to USB on my computer
[12:05] <ogra_> uh
[12:05] <ogra_> thats will liekyl not work
[12:05] <ljose> ok so I just mess the BBB image?
[12:06] <ogra_> well, you should be able to restore the internal MMC from some debian-BBB image from beagleboard.org
[12:07] <ogra_> i'm pretty sure you cant bot from a dd'ed snappy image from the internal MMC yet though ... needs an SD
[12:08] <ljose> I don't follow, I need an extra SD to use Snappy with my BBB?
[12:09] <ogra_> yes, currently we have no way for on-board installs
[12:10] <ljose> What kind of SD? can I use a USB disk?
[12:10] <ogra_> a micro SD
[12:10] <ogra_> you could use USB but still ned the bootloader on SD i think
[12:11] <ogra_> the initrd mounts the partitions by label ... so if you put the image on USB and have only the /boot partition on SD that would also work i guess
[12:11] <ogra_> but you need the SD for booting
[12:12] <ogra_> (there are surely ways to hack the /boot partition and bootloader into the MMC, but we have no automatic or userfriendly way yet)
[12:13]  * ogra_ will at some point take a look at rcn-ee's installed script for the BBB so we can provide an install image 
[12:14] <ljose> so dos BBB include SD card reader?
[12:14] <ogra_> yes
[12:14] <ogra_> well, microSD
[12:14] <ljose> so I need a microSD and a reader for my PC to load the image?
[12:15] <ogra_> to write it, yes
[12:16] <ogra_> and if you work with embedded boards investing the $10 for a proper serial cable makes sense and saves a lot of headdache :)
[12:17] <ljose> ogra_: Yes I will get one, just my first BBB project
[12:18] <ogra_> :)
[12:42] <mvo> meh, image build is broken
[12:43] <ogra_> oh <?
[12:43] <ogra_> oh, ! damn ... i saw the mail ... thoght ... ah, arm64 again ... and ignored it
[12:43] <ogra_> we really really need to do something about these arch names !
[12:44] <ogra_> +dnsmasq:*:16612:0:99999:7:::
[12:44] <ogra_> where does that come from ?
[12:44] <ogra_> did we change seeds ?
[12:44] <ogra_> (doesnt look like we would want that in the core image)
[12:45]  * ogra_ wonders if some of seb128's changes leaked into core via seed deps or some such 
[12:45] <sergiusens> ogra_: might be the addition of ubuntu-fan
[12:45] <ogra_> ah !
[12:45] <seb128> ogra_, I doubt that has to do with my changes
[12:45] <ogra_> still. do we really want a DHCP server preinstalled ?
[12:46] <sergiusens> ogra_: if we want ubuntu-fan I don't see a way out of it
[12:46] <seb128> sergiusens, ogra_, btw, tried to build a personal image today for some reason I can't log in with ubuntu/ubuntu
[12:46] <ogra_> seb128, yeah, not blaming you, rather a mis-setup of our seed deps that is exposed now ... but what sergiusens says is more likely
[12:46] <ogra_> seb128, well, i doubt you have cloud-init installed ?
[12:47] <seb128> ogra_, we do
[12:47] <ogra_> (which sets up the account on first boot)
[12:47] <seb128> which is creating a boot timeout
[12:47] <seb128> cf #ubuntu-desktop log from earlier
[12:47] <ogra_> oh, and do you see it setting up the account ?
[12:47] <seb128> I guess not
[12:47] <ogra_> it is quite wordy on console when doing it
[12:48] <seb128> it errors loop on url_helper warnings about trying to call http://109-04-04/...instance-id
[12:48] <seb128> then timeout after 90s
[12:48] <ogra_> sergiusens, well, do we want ubuntu-fan actually *inside* core in the long term ?
[12:48] <seb128> so I guess that fails
[12:48] <ogra_> i thought that was only a temporary thing
[12:49] <sergiusens> ogra_: it's like this, we either need a framework for frameworks or it needs to be in core :-/
[12:49] <ogra_> then we need a framework
[12:50] <ogra_> core should really only offer an embedded os ... not fancy stuff imho
[12:50] <sergiusens> ogra_: a framework that frameworks can depend on
[12:50] <sergiusens> ogra_: and that breaks the rule for frameworks
[12:50] <ogra_> yeah, whatever works :)
[12:51] <sergiusens> ogra_: in any case, you can revert the seed change and we can think of this
[12:51]  * ogra_ leaves the details to the architects ;) 
[12:51] <sergiusens> heh, another problem for lool to solve
[12:51] <sergiusens> :-)
[12:51] <ogra_> :)
[12:52] <seb128> I guess cloud-init is not hitting the same timeout errors on core atm?
[12:52] <seb128> I wonder if that's a local issue
[12:52] <ogra_> no. it works fine
[12:53] <seb128> does it need to access the internet to boot?
[12:53] <ogra_> it might expect an eth0 device
[12:53] <seb128> not sure what http://109-04-04 is
[12:53]  * ogra_ neither 
[12:53] <seb128> but it was working on the image from a week ago
[12:53] <seb128> weird
[12:53] <ogra_> i never looked at cloud-init ... i only always see the ton of messages on first boot ...
[12:54] <ogra_> sergiusens, well, i dont think we should change seeds back right now,  someone might expect fan asap ...
[12:55] <ogra_> but we should start a discussion, imho adding stuff like dnsmasq is wrong
[12:55] <ogra_> (what if i ship a snap using isc-dhcpd for netbooting my thin clients from my thin client server snap ... they will clash and break)
[12:56] <sergiusens> ogra_: right, I would unseed for now, no one was expecting this today
[12:57] <ogra_> oh, ok
[12:57] <ogra_> to not be broken over the weekend
[13:03] <sergiusens> seb128: the only reason I think your login could be broken is if for some reason the ssh host keys failed to be created and it cloud-init bailed on you
[13:03] <sergiusens> seb128: oh, and why do you have cloud-init?
[13:03] <ogra_> because he has no user at all otherwise
[13:03] <seb128> sergiusens, dunno, because core has it and we started from there?
[13:04] <ogra_> seb128, i guess you want to port the touch user creation bits for now ... and drop cloud-init
[13:04] <sergiusens> seb128: I would remove it, but we can accomodate for it, I'm not sure the 'personal' target has the nocloud seed creation going on
[13:06] <seb128> ogra_, sergiusens, unsure what needs changing? seeds? livecd-rootfs?
[13:06] <ogra_> seb128, seeds to drop cloud-init ... livecd-rootfs to move over the user creation from touch
[13:07] <seb128> ogra_, k, let me find the user creation bits
[13:07] <seb128> why is core using cloud-init rather than doing it the touch way?
[13:07] <ogra_> seb128, 01-setup_user.chroot
[13:07] <seb128> ogra_, danke
[13:07] <ogra_> cloud-init brngs the ssh config
[13:07] <ogra_> *brings
[13:07] <ogra_> touch has ssh off by default
[13:08] <sergiusens> mvo: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11778540/
[13:09] <sergiusens> mvo: I can push that to the ppa if you want (took me 10s to make the code change and 30 minutes to rebuild a test package :-P)
[13:10] <ogra_> sergiusens, mvo http://paste.ubuntu.com/11778546/ ... that would fix the build error
[13:11] <ogra_> but not sure if we want that ... or instead revert the seeds and have a proper discussion first
[13:12] <ogra_> sergiusens, not sure you saw my ping above ... technically it looks correct to me, but i would feel better if someone like slangasek could take a look and sign it off ... he has looked at adduser before
[13:12] <ogra_> (and might know things we dont)
[13:12] <sergiusens> ogra_: I saw it, but slangasek will only be avail in 3 hours :-)
[13:13] <ogra_> (there are twi whitespace changes you might want to fix btw)
[13:13] <sergiusens> ogra_: and I was just fixing something mvo pointed out :-)
[13:13] <ogra_> *two
[13:13] <ogra_> line 135/136 and 144/145
[13:14] <ogra_> but thats just nitpicking :)
[13:14] <sergiusens> sure
[13:14] <sergiusens> but this quilting business is so tiresome :-P
[13:14] <ogra_> heh
[13:17] <sergiusens> ogra_: there, vorlon has been _mentioned_ in the card
[13:17] <ogra_> :)
[13:19] <sergiusens> ogra_: just for you http://paste.ubuntu.com/11778568/
[13:19] <ogra_> haha, thanks :)
[13:19] <ogra_> so much shorter all of a sudden :P
[13:20] <sergiusens> ogra_: paste needs to learn how to color patches with a patch ;-)
[13:21] <ogra_> i'm surprised /var/lib/extrausers/shadow is already in defines.h
[13:22] <sergiusens> ogra_: that's added in debian/patches/1010_extrausers.patch
[13:23] <sergiusens> ogra_: here you go http://paste.ubuntu.com/11778582/
[13:23] <ogra_> aha, mterry
[13:24] <ogra_> ah, thats for the phone
[13:24] <ogra_> (i think i even signed it off back then :P )
[13:27] <dholbach> fgimenez, elopio, balloons: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Snappy
[13:27] <dholbach> (and subsequent pages)
[13:27] <dholbach> feel free to change/add as you see fit
[13:27] <ogra_> oldschool \o/
[13:28] <ogra_> now we just need a gdoc -> wiki importer :)
[13:29] <dholbach> haha
[13:29]  * mvo is in a meeting
[13:29] <ogra_> poor guy
[13:30] <balloons> dholbach, woot
[13:34] <sergiusens> ogra_: I can make the extrausers thing without the toggle thing as well if you want
[13:34] <ogra_> no, the toogle is good i think
[13:35] <lool> sergiusens: I'm not a fan of that idea
[13:35] <lool> the ubuntu-fan framework of frameworks
[13:35] <sergiusens> lool: no one is
[13:35] <sergiusens> lool: so in core it is for now
[13:36] <ogra_> lool, i'm not a fan of shipping a dhcp server :)
[13:36] <ogra_> (in core that is)
[13:36] <lool> I'm not a fan of fan in the first place
[13:37] <ogra_> we might want to consider cloud vs core seeds for snappy
[13:37] <ogra_> i assume fan has its fans in the cloud :)
[13:37] <lool> a fan to move the cloud
[13:37] <lool> fantastic idae
[13:37] <sergiusens> lol
[13:38] <ogra_> :D
[13:51] <mvo> sergiusens: "++	(void) fputs (_("  -E, --extrausers              Use the extra users database\n"), usageout);" the -E is still there in the help output
[13:53] <ogra_> sergiusens, oh, line 76 could use indentation fixing
[13:53] <ogra_> hmm, 83 to 85 too
[13:54] <ogra_> yay for tabs vs spaces
[14:16] <elopio> good morning.
[14:16] <elopio> thanks dholbach!
[14:17] <elopio> do you want to hangout today fgimenez ?
[14:18] <fgimenez> elopio, as you like, don't have too much to say, all the merges are already done
[14:19] <elopio> fgimenez: thanks for that.
[14:19] <elopio> I'll merge yours too.
[14:19] <fgimenez> elopio, ok thanks
[14:19] <elopio> fgimenez: lets skip today. I talk too much, you need some free time from me :)
[14:20] <fgimenez> elopio, ok np :)
[14:20] <sergiusens> ogra_: hmm, mvo left, the latest diff didn't have that -E
[14:20] <sergiusens> ogra_: and the whole file is mixed
[14:29] <sergiusens> ogra_: hmm,
[14:29] <ogra_> hmm
[14:29] <sergiusens> I'll fix all of those
[14:37] <sergiusens> ogra_: mvo http://paste.ubuntu.com/11778888/ (the -E was already fixed in diff you missed)
[14:37]  * sergiusens raises fist at nothing (the lack of vcs)
[14:38] <mvo> sergiusens: ta!
[14:38] <ogra_> sergiusens, heh, but the whitespace change on the two comment lines is back ...
[14:38] <sergiusens> mvo: and I was thinking if maybe this should be an implicit thing now (more invasive diff though)
[14:38] <ogra_> just leave it though before it gets messed up again
[14:38] <sergiusens> ogra_: oh, I need to manually remove those :-P
[14:40] <sergiusens> ogra_: there you go http://paste.ubuntu.com/11778897/
[14:40] <ogra_> heh, thanks :)
[14:40] <sergiusens> mvo: what do you think of implicit vs explicit?
[14:41] <mvo> sergiusens: hm? sorry, lacking context (plus meetings)
[14:42] <ogra_> sergiusens, as long as it is *plicit :P
[14:42] <sergiusens> mvo: instead of -E, if /etc/passwd and friends fail to lock to try and use the extrausers ones
[14:43]  * ogra_ wouldnt do any automation here ... in case we want to upstream it 
[14:43] <ogra_> it is more likely to be included if it is swiatchable
[14:43] <ogra_> -a
[14:43] <mvo> sergiusens: explicit sounds better to me
[14:44] <mvo> sergiusens: do we need adduser at all (asking, no idea if yes or no) :)
[14:44] <ogra_> well, we need some tool to add users ...
[14:44] <ogra_> if we dont use the default (adduser) as documented everywhere for ubuntu, we need to have specific docs explaining how to add users then
[14:45] <ogra_> personal might want it though
[14:45] <ogra_> for multiuser desktops
[14:54] <sergiusens> mvo: ok, let's keep it explicit, and we need it for cloud init as well
[14:54] <sergiusens> ok then, we are good to go then
[15:02] <mvo> sergiusens: ok
[15:02] <mvo> sergiusens: ta
[15:09] <ogra_> pitti, so this seed change ... is that a hard req now ?
[15:10]  * ogra_ feels rather uneasy about it
[15:22] <ogra_> sergiusens, seed revert done ... (i'll wait one publisher run before kicking the image, not sure when the task generation happens)
[15:35] <Chipaca> sergiusens: mvo: elopio: fgallina: http://npf.io/2015/06/testing-exec-command/
[15:36] <elopio> cool, thanks Chipaca.
[15:36] <elopio> I'm puzzled about this: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11779125/
[15:37] <elopio> the build works with the default arch, but fails using GOARCH=arm.
[15:38] <sergiusens> elopio: you need more than just goarch, look at webdm's build script
[15:38]  * elopio looks.
[15:48] <Chipaca> elopio: or alternatively read doc/cross-build.md
[15:48] <Chipaca> sergiusens: ^
[15:50] <elopio> Chipaca: hah, that's the second time you tell me that. Sorry.
[15:50]  * elopio bookmarks the cross-build.
[15:50] <Chipaca> :)
[15:51] <elopio> I was missing one of the packages.
[16:09] <fgimenez> nice weekend everyone o/
[16:52] <slangasek> ogra_, sergiusens: I didn't look at adduser, I only pointed in its direction.  what input did you need from me on it?
[16:54] <ogra_> slangasek, just a glance over http://paste.ubuntu.com/11778897/ if you see anything insane
[16:54] <ogra_> technically it looks ok to me ... i'm just not sure about "conceptual" :)
[16:57] <Chipaca> sergiusens: this grub.cfg should work with both old and new and do the right thing and etc: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11779470/
[16:58] <Chipaca> sergiusens: however, i haven't been able to test the upgrade
[16:58] <Chipaca> sergiusens: is there a way of testing this without publishing an image with this grub?
[16:59] <Chipaca> sergiusens: super simple the grub.cfg in the end, and i had all the bits already
[17:00] <Chipaca> sergiusens: more DRY: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11779488/
[17:01] <Chipaca> sergiusens: and now i'm off to make pizza. will check back later wrt the above.
[17:09] <slangasek> ogra_: ah, so changing shadow instead of adduser.  hmm.  I think it's a better logical fit in adduser, but clearly doing it in shadow would work
[17:09] <ogra_> well, i think sergiusens plans to do both
[17:10] <ogra_> but have shadow do all the work
[17:10] <ogra_> so adduser needs just the switch enabled
[18:09] <sergiusens> Chipaca: nice
[18:13] <sergiusens> Chipaca: ogra_ what if we allow expansion of cmdline with a grubenv?
[18:23] <sergiusens> slangasek: my worry is that some component in some place will need to do an 'if RO' or 'if snappy' and apply the right switches; is that useradd or cloud-init?
[18:24] <slangasek> sergiusens: I'd suggest that it should be part of the adduser config
[18:25] <slangasek> there's not currently an option for this in /etc/adduser.conf, but it could be done
[18:31] <sergiusens> slangasek: ok, I was thinking of that and don't mind adding it there; thanks
[18:32] <slangasek> sergiusens: ok, great :)
[20:39] <balloons> elopio, trying to update to latest snappy edge is giving me an error; if I use snappy update, rather than snappy update ubuntu-core: http://paste.ubuntu.com/11780433/
[20:40] <balloons> as an aside, will snappy support diff based updating? Or will I always have to grab the entire image?
[20:56] <sergiusens> slangasek: can you look at https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/ubuntu/wily/adduser/extrausers/+merge/263169 later?
[21:12] <slangasek> sergiusens: ok, queued for looking
[22:36] <elopio> balloons: please report a bug for that, I'll try to reproduce it.
[22:37] <elopio> balloons: I think you are downloading only the delta.
[22:43] <Guest36352> trying out snappy on the raspberry pi 2, i installed docker and booted a container with "docker run -it -p 4444:4443 nblumoe/rpi-clojure". I installed netcat and ran "echo yo | nc -l 4444". Should I not be able to "nc 127.0.0.1 4443" and get "yo" from the pi?
[22:43] <Guest36352> i can see the port bound with docker ps "a1cee09fade8        nblumoe/rpi-clojure:latest   "bash"              14 minutes ago      Up 14 minutes       0.0.0.0:4444->4443/tcp   fervent_babbage"
[22:46] <Guest36352> but no cigar
[23:42] <damjan> Guest36352: format: ip:hostPort:containerPort | ip::containerPort | hostPort:containerPort | containerPort
[23:43] <damjan> Guest36352: so 4444 is the hostPort 4443 is the containerPort
[23:43] <damjan> so you need to listen to 4443 in the docker container
[23:43] <damjan> and connect to 4444 from the host