/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/06/26/#ubuntu-discuss.txt

histodaftykins: ??00:44
histodaftykins: he was just trying to boot from usb. He has no idea what he's doing.00:45
histoSo now he's off on some tangent trying to get the usb to boot from grub rather than the bios. He also has yet to reveal why he is trying to reinstall in the first place.00:46
daftykinssilly ideas like 'keyboard lag' as i see above00:46
daftykinsi know the situation :)00:46
daftykinslikely gonna give up though, this is the kind of youngster that can't help themselves00:46
OerHeksthe only thing i can think of, just reading back, is that he has fastboot enabled, that can prevent seeing usb devices.00:47
daftykinsi don't know if Windows was mentioned at all, might not be a dualboot00:49
lotuspsychjegood morning to all03:50
lotuspsychjeEriC^^: http://www.basicincome.org/news/2015/06/finland-new-government-commits-to-a-basic-income-experiment/04:23
EriC^^morning lotuspsychje04:35
lotuspsychjegood morning EriC^^04:35
lotuspsychjehttp://linux.softpedia.com/blog/watch-ubuntu-15-04-running-on-microsoft-s-surface-pro-3-tablet-485349.shtml08:14
EriC^^cool08:17
lotuspsychjedont like surface myself, but hey better have ubuntu on it anyways08:17
lotuspsychjebbl see you laterz08:27
lordievaderGood morning.08:53
BluesKajHi folks10:34
lotuspsychjegood evening to all15:59
daftykinsheya o/16:17
daftykinshttps://www.dropbox.com/sh/222k7jecohmd13b/AABqemkMg4icFEf0Jzjbaj2Ta?dl=016:17
daftykinsaww yes just put a new screen on a Samsung Galaxy S316:17
lotuspsychjedaftykins: wow did that yourself?16:19
daftykinsyes sir-ee, it's really simple with this model to be honest16:20
daftykinswell, the little narrow strip cable there had to be very carefully teased out16:21
lotuspsychjelol16:21
daftykinsa friend once gave me an iPhone 4 he'd taken apart whilst high - and said "have fun" :)16:21
lotuspsychjei rather like the rougher hardware fixxing16:21
daftykinsusing ifixit guides i managed to measure and place all the important screws, then put it back together \o/16:21
daftykinsoh these ones are definitely rage inducing16:21
daftykinsi can't tolerate speaking to anyone whilst working, i just go nuts :D16:22
daftykinsaaah i love the thrill of fixing things :)16:30
lotuspsychje:p16:30
daftykinsi've got a friends of the exact same model here so i can do that one next16:31
lotuspsychje$$$$$16:31
daftykinsdifferent colour models are different prices XD16:31
daftykinswell, sadly not so much16:31
lotuspsychjeyou be the next smasung helpdesk :p16:31
daftykinsthese S3s can be bought for £100 new now, the screens are costing £4816:31
daftykinsi'd rather see it working than thrown away though really16:32
lotuspsychjebig business, i worked in mediamarkt, 90% breaks phone glass16:32
lotuspsychjegirls goto bathroom with it= broke16:32
daftykinsoh? gave it up?16:32
lotuspsychjesteam inside the phone16:32
daftykinshaha16:32
lotuspsychjeyep my collegues were nasty windows freaks16:32
lotuspsychjeand i loved to help ppl with ubutnu installs16:32
daftykinseveryone i work for is tied into MS Outlook so couldn't hop platform really16:34
lotuspsychjeyeah16:34
daftykinsand i don't use desktop Linux so i'd never put ubuntu in for anyone16:34
lotuspsychjeim gonna make a difference with my ubuntu store for sure16:35
daftykinsi think every OS has problems, but you can't really be a jack of all trades... gotta pick one to focus on16:35
lotuspsychjedaftykins: i had to recover win8 boxes all the time and they needed 2 days n nights running updates16:35
lotuspsychjeubuntu:30min16:36
lotuspsychjeand you got fresh install + updates16:36
OerHeksupdating windows, that alone costs the company many hours :-D16:36
daftykinsi see your point there, but now given the hassles of flash 'support' in Firefox, life's gotten pretty messy16:36
lotuspsychjeOerHeks: +116:36
lotuspsychjedaftykins: if flash reall dies, html5 will raise higher16:37
daftykinsnah my mate works for a school up in England, he's got it set so a clean build can be deployed over the network with Office installed in 30 mins16:37
daftykinslotuspsychje: yeah, can't happen soon enough16:37
daftykinsbut sadly for the time being some sites are still behind16:37
daftykinsi've got xubuntu on that old laptop, runs nicely - but i had to install nautilus to be able to right click and share dropbox links from files16:37
MonkeyDust15.10 alpha 1... runningin vmware...16:37
daftykinsthen i had to install chromium and pepperflash for normal sites to work16:38
lotuspsychjeMonkeyDust: nice, saw that on omgubuntu, hows wily :p16:38
daftykinsbit personal ;)16:38
MonkeyDustwily is ok and sends greetings16:39
lotuspsychjelol16:39
lotuspsychje!willy16:39
ubot5It is spelt !wiLy :)16:39
lotuspsychje:p16:39
daftykins=]16:39
lotuspsychjehttp://linux.softpedia.com/blog/watch-ubuntu-15-04-running-on-microsoft-s-surface-pro-3-tablet-485349.shtml16:41
daftykinslotuspsychje: my hope for Windows 10 with this funny rolling release idea, is that they'll release regular ISOs that are more up to date so the whole patching chain doesn't continue16:44
daftykins'cause i agree, 8 was absolutely atrocious - though i mostly avoided it due to being an absolute lemon of an OS anyway :)16:44
lotuspsychje10 will be surely another previous windows clone16:44
lotuspsychjewith lighter feeling16:44
daftykinsi've been playing with the preview, it's faster than even 7 in general usage O_O16:45
daftykinsa real pleasant change16:45
daftykinsin fact i should boot up my test PC here with the preview on16:46
MonkeyDusti liked windows 10 too, but my old laptop/vmware couldnt handle it after 2 build upgrades16:46
daftykinshow so?16:47
daftykinsran slowly?16:47
lotuspsychjelordievader: alive?16:47
lordievaderlotuspsychje: Sure, why not?16:47
MonkeyDustyes, and heating issues...16:47
lotuspsychjelordievader: TJ- has some issues about hd's and virtual machines, wanna listen to him?16:48
lordievaderGo ahead.16:48
daftykinshey that's a fellow helper right? should join here16:48
lotuspsychjeyep invited him :p16:48
daftykinscool16:48
lotuspsychjeTJ-: can you re-ask your issue to lordievader plz?16:49
daftykinsTJ-: welcome o/16:49
lotuspsychjeTJ-: and welcome here, we have gathered the 'good guys' volunteers here :p16:50
* lordievader is back in a bit16:50
MonkeyDustnothing remarkable so far, in 15.10...16:50
TJ-trying to find a way to simulate 4K sized sector devices for testing tooling, but not found a way outside of using a VM, which is not a usable solution for mastering images on such simulated devices16:50
TJ- I've been doing extensive research on this for over a week now, including my kernel patches. I've been hoping to find another, sneaky, way through some obscure tool that might support it. For example, qemu supports configuring the physical and logical sector-size of its virtual drives, but unfortunately what I'm doing can't make use of a virtual machine16:50
daftykinssounds like you need to buy yourself an Advanced Format drive ;)16:51
TJ-I have the drives, but I need to be able to simulate them for tooling for building images16:52
TJ-I'm working on a universal GRUB2-bootable image that'll work on x86/amd64, BIOS and UEFI, with raw block and ISO9660/El Torito, supporting multiple sector sizes (512/2048/4096) and want to design it to work with the current tooling16:52
lordievaderTJ-: Use a loopback device.16:53
lordievaderMake an image with dd, then turn them into a virtual device with the loopback stuff.16:54
TJ-I'm continuing with my kernel loop driver patches, which is the best way, but it's taking more time than I anticipated due to knock-on effects, so I was hoping I might find another sneaky way to do so I can get on with actually creating the images and patching the various tooling to work correctly16:54
TJ-lordievader: That doesn't work, you're missing my point. the loop driver hard-codes 512 byte sectors. My kernel patches are changing that but are not yet ready, as I mentioned16:55
lordievaderHmm, I see.16:55
MonkeyDustright...16:56
* lotuspsychje doesnt understand nothing about it16:56
MonkeyDust(talking to my pc)16:56
TJ-lordievader: hence looking for a 'sneaky' way around it until those patches are ready, so I can build images and do testing :)16:56
lotuspsychjeMonkeyDust: lol16:56
lordievaderNothing springs to mind I'm afraid. I usually don't mind the defaults.16:56
TJ-I thought nbd might do it, but it doesn't.16:57
TJ-The issue is this, if an image is created on a 512-byte sector block device that will fail on a 4096-byte device, and visa-versa16:57
TJ-the reason being that partition offsets and layouts (such as the GPT header and ISO9660 descriptors) are positioned based on their Logical Block Address (LBA) aka sector number... so sector 1 on a 4K sized sector advanced format disk is sector 8 on a 512-byte sector-sized disk16:59
lordievaderAnd you don't have this problem with VM's?17:01
TJ-It is possible, with qemu for example, to specify the physical and logical sector size of the virtual disks it presents to the guest, so instead of the default 512/512 it can be set to 512/4096 or 4096/4096 or whatever.17:03
TJ-Unfortunately the tooling that builds these bootable images can't make use of a VM17:04
lordievaderTJ-: I'm not sure. But I think that the VM thinks it is running on real hardware. So if you can tell a physical machine to use 4K sectors you should be able to tell a VM the same thing.17:05
TJ-(qemu has the property: <device>.physical_block_size=xxxx17:05
TJ-lordievader: You can't change the sector size of bare-metal devices. This is why I'm working on adding this functionality to the kernel loop device driver.17:06
lordievaderAh, then I simply don't understand ;)17:07
lotuspsychjeTJ-: maybe the #ubuntu-devel guys would know this?17:07
lotuspsychjeim searching the net for 4k allignment and ubuntu, but this issue is over my head17:07
lordievaderOr the kernel team.17:07
lotuspsychjelordievader: know the channel name?17:08
lordievaderErr #ubuntu-kernel or something, ask alis.17:08
lordievader!alis17:08
ubot5alis is a services bot that can help you find channels. Read "/msg alis help list" . For more help or questions relating to alis, please join #freenode. Example usage: /msg alis list #ubuntu* or /msg alis list *http*17:08
lotuspsychjetnx17:08
TJ-lotuspsychje: I've asked in there the last couple of days but no-one has spoken up, and I used to be on the kernel team, and work on the mainline kernel,  so I'm very familiar with this kernel avenue.17:08
lordievaderTJ-: Nice, nice :)17:09
TJ-this is why, for now, I was hoping there's some tool out there that can simulate this... I did look hard at device-mapper but it seems this is the 1 thing it can't do :)17:09
lotuspsychjeTJ-: how about the ##linux guys + 4k ?17:09
TJ-Yeah, been asking there and in ##kernel too, I hang out in those channels as well as the ubuntu ones17:10
lotuspsychjeTJ-: can you specify the search string? a tool to simulate..17:10
TJ-lotuspsychje: "simulate 4K sector size" is about as tight as I can get :)17:11
lotuspsychjeok tnx lemme dig the net :p17:11
lordievaderAre there disks with a 4K sector size?17:11
TJ-The annoying part is, the file-system tools will allow you to specify the underlying sector size (to alignment purposes) but it also needs to be done at the lower level17:12
TJ-lordievader: Yes, it's the standard for >2TB devices17:12
lordievaderAh, yes I see. (Just checked my 3TB drive)17:12
lotuspsychjeTJ-: can this help: http://flashdba.com/4k-sector-size/17:13
TJ-lotuspsychje: That just explains how 4KB sectors are implemented and the backward-compatibility with 512B sectors (emulation mode) is done17:15
lotuspsychjek17:15
TJ-lotuspsychje: This is going to be some low-level Linux-specific tool that works with block devices, such as device-mapper (dmsetup), Multiple Devices (mdadm), or similar17:18
TJ-mdadm has the concept of chunks but that doesn't translate to what userspace sees as sector sizes17:20
lotuspsychjeTJ-: i would go talk around with ##hardware or ##linux17:29
lotuspsychjenever know someone knows something17:29
TJ-I'm going to spend part of the weekend doing more work on the kernel loop device driver; I think I'm almost there with that. I can also start to investigate the tooling packages to ensure they won't fall over with differing sector sizes. I was just hoping I'd overlooked some tool that does this as a side-effect.17:32
lotuspsychjeTJ-: join ##hardware you need to help me17:39
lotuspsychje<lotuspsychje>  someone knows a package for linux that can simulate 4K sector size?17:40
lotuspsychje<compdoc> bad idea17:40
lotuspsychje<lotuspsychje> compdoc: why?17:40
lotuspsychje<mystica555> i don't even understand what you mean 'simulate'17:40
lotuspsychje<AStorm> package?17:40
lotuspsychje<foobark> vmware?17:40
lotuspsychje<iChatter> why simulate 4K sector?17:40
lotuspsychje<AStorm> you can get the kernel to lie about sector size, sure17:40
lotuspsychje<eHAPPY> i think he just means offset for 4k17:40
lotuspsychje<iChatter> emulating old devices?17:40
lotuspsychje<AStorm> if you need the offset, gparted aligns to 1MB17:40
lotuspsychje<iChatter> also, it must be low level then I guess17:40
lotuspsychje* rjno has quit ()17:40
lotuspsychje<AStorm> you could potentially set up a fake MTD with such a sector size17:40
lotuspsychje<compdoc> linux and windows all understand 4k sector sizes, and 512 sector size. let them handle it17:40
daftykinsa mate of mine hangs out in there17:41
daftykinsthey're all idiots i'm afraid17:41
lotuspsychjelol17:41
daftykinsnot gonna get much deep level input i suspect17:41
lotuspsychjedaftykins: seems like someone is smart over there :p17:46
daftykinsmust be new ;)17:47
lotuspsychjehaha17:47
daftykinsi considered joining once 'cause i enjoy hardware, but... yeah.17:47
daftykinsnot interested in picking out parts for people really17:47
lotuspsychjeyeah most of the times their pretty m0rrons17:47
daftykinsmmm, same as #ubuntu but different topic :>17:48
lotuspsychje!find gluebi17:48
ubot5Found: W:, W:, W:17:48
lotuspsychjeoO17:49
daftykinswat17:50
daftykins:D17:50
lotuspsychjedaftykins: thats what the smart guy suggests to TJ- gluebi driver (mainline)17:50
daftykinsah, i was more thinking of the funny output from the bot though17:51
daftykinsback shortly17:51
lotuspsychjekk17:51
MonkeyDust!happiness17:58
ubot5Chocolate! And Strawberries! And ICE CREAM! Ooo! and 60 minutes +m!17:58
lotuspsychjeoO17:59
lotuspsychjei want one!17:59
MonkeyDusthappiness seems to be associated with food, that's interesting...18:00
lotuspsychje:p18:01
daftykinsi can go with that18:07
daftykinsi have a belgian chocolate all butter cookie from the coffee shop here in front of me 8)18:07
lotuspsychjei have a whole country with cookies like that18:08
lotuspsychje:p18:08
daftykinsXD18:08
lotuspsychje!cookie | daftykins18:11
ubot5daftykins: Wow! You're such a great helper, you deserve a cookie!18:11
daftykins8D18:12
daftykinsshame i bought and paid for it myself :(18:13
daftykinsmakes me wonder how much money we could put into open source from providing help really18:13
daftykinssometimes when people are feeling really generous after my help with Kodi (new name for XBMC) they offer money or beer, so i say donate instead if they feel like it18:13
daftykinsworks out well :)18:13
lotuspsychje:p18:14
lotuspsychjeTJ-: found something usefull after that konversation?18:15
* lotuspsychje grabs the half of daftykins cookie18:15
* EriC^^ shoots lotuspsychje with a tranquilizer18:17
lotuspsychjeloool18:17
* OerHeks bites lotuspsychje ..nummie18:17
OerHeksuh oh... where am i18:17
EriC^^magic cookie?18:17
EriC^^:P18:17
lotuspsychjeyoul have to come with stronger toys to paralize lotuspsychje :p18:17
* lotuspsychje is protected by ubuntu-shield18:18
daftykinsOerHeks: you're awake! this is real! :>18:18
lotuspsychjelol18:18
TJ-lotuspsychje: Not so far... lots of layers of indirection but not found a way to set the sector size so far18:18
lotuspsychjeso far for quality ubuntu discussions...18:18
lotuspsychjeTJ-: but will that UBI help you out?18:19
TJ-It doesn't look like it... it's just making more of a mess!18:22
lotuspsychjebummers18:22
lotuspsychjeEriC^^: i presume you dont know howto simulate 4k sector size either?18:23
EriC^^huh, no :P18:24
lotuspsychjetnx for trying :p18:24
lotuspsychjeTJ-: guess you on your own again mate18:25
MonkeyDustI just copy/paste's 'sudo apt-get update' from a tutorial   <-- laziness...18:25
lotuspsychjelol18:26
lotuspsychjeand i added a ppa for winusb to create a win8 usb18:26
TJ-It requires:  losetup /dev/loop0 disk.img && modprobe block2mtd block2mtd=/dev/loop0,4096 && modprobe ubi && modprobe gluebi && ubiformat && ubinize -o /tmp/ubi.img -p 4KiB -m 512 ubi.ini && ubiattach /dev/ubi_ctrl -m 0 ... and still end up with 512 byte sectors :)18:26
lotuspsychjeTJ-: confront that hardware guy with it, he might reply back :p18:27
lotuspsychjethis is chinese for me18:27
daftykinswhy would you need a program to create a windows 8 flash drive? is that for legacy installs?18:28
daftykinsas otherwise, creating a plain FAT volume and pasting the ISO contents is perfecto for EFI :>18:28
TJ-I'm sure it'll be quicker to just get on with my kernel loop driver modifications18:28
lotuspsychjedaftykins: what do you use?18:28
lotuspsychjedd?18:28
daftykinsnah you can't dd windows ones afaik18:28
lotuspsychjewinusb works like a charm for me18:29
daftykinsif you need legacy boot then i create from Windows so i'm ok, but EFI installs you just do the above18:29
lotuspsychjewell i formatted a laptop with ubuntu for a kid18:29
lotuspsychjebut i never save windows partitions18:30
lotuspsychjeand he wanted to game18:30
daftykinsah, oops18:30
lotuspsychjeso i installed a w8 iso on usb18:30
daftykinsso it came with 8 EFI'd?18:30
lotuspsychjeyep18:30
lotuspsychjebut cant use the internal restore option anymore18:30
daftykinsyeah so pasting contents is all you need :)18:30
lotuspsychjew8 is up n running so the kids glad :p18:31
daftykinsanyway don't mean to second guess, thought it could be handy/interesting though18:31
lotuspsychjehe can play LOTR lego again18:31
daftykinslawl18:31
lotuspsychje:p18:31
MonkeyDustis that a w8 live session?18:34
daftykinsno such thing18:35
MonkeyDustnot w8 on a usb stick?18:35
lotuspsychjeMonkeyDust: no, w8 iso bootable18:36
daftykinsyeah but you don't get a live session, only the Windows preinstallation environment18:36
lordievaderTJ-: Good luck on your kernel driver ;)18:36
MonkeyDustbut it does not install?18:36
daftykinsno that's not the topic :)18:36
lotuspsychjeMonkeyDust: yes, i get the same install screen as w718:36
TJ-lordievader: thanks... it's not far off now, should be done and tested tomorrow night :)18:36
daftykinsi was just discussing how you don't need to mess with boot sector crap anymore18:37
lotuspsychjeTJ-: if gluebi is mainline, the #ubuntu-devel guys must know all this right???18:37
lordievaderNice nice.18:37
lordievaderThat is still on my list of things that I should do, write a kernel module.18:37
TJ-lotuspsychje: gluebi does exactly the opposite of what AStorm thought it did, it's totally not going to help18:39
TJ-lordievader: It can be a frustrating learning curve; I started back in 200518:39
MonkeyDustwhat's gluebi?18:39
lotuspsychjeMonkeyDust: thats what the guy from ##hardware suggested to TJ-18:41
lotuspsychjenot sure whats it for18:41
lotuspsychjethe whole night is being chinese to me18:42
TJ-lotuspsychje: It's pretty simple. Raw physical flash devices are called Memory Technology Devices (MTD). Unsorted BIock Images (UBI) are a way to define where the non-erased blocks are, to provide Flash wear-levelling support.18:47
TJ-UBI cannot be addressed directly by tools that are written to manage block devices, so GLUEBI can be layered on top of a UBI volume and make it look like an MTD block device once again, so that tools like partitioners, file system formattting, etc., can use it18:49
lotuspsychjethink i would understand more, if i see you playing with all your tools18:50
lordievaderTJ-: That is why I have been putting it off.18:50
TJ-lotuspsychje: So to use UBI for my purposes I'd have a file on disk representing a disk image, maybe an ISO. I'd have to loop-mount (/dev/loop0), then use the kernel's block2mtd module to make that look like an MTD device, then format that MTD device with UBI, and then layer GLUEBI on top of that to make the UBI look like an MTD. At that point I *might* have a device that reports the sector sizes I require *if* one of the layers was configurable in that re18:52
TJ-gard. But... none of those layers provide a way to specify a  (sector) block-size since MTD/UBI are intrinsically *not* block devices like ATA/SCSI devices18:52
TJ-lotuspsychje: the simple part is... when 'gdisk', 'fdisk', or any other partitioning tool accesses the simluated device it needs to be able to see a physical and/or logical sector size other than 512 bytes so that what it writes to that device is in the correct location18:54
TJ-Hence my work on the loop driver. The easiest solution to this is to be able to alter the sector size values reported for a /dev/loopX device which has a simple disk file as its backing store18:56
lotuspsychjeright :p19:01

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