[00:44] <histo> daftykins: ??
[00:45] <histo> daftykins: he was just trying to boot from usb. He has no idea what he's doing.
[00:46] <histo> So now he's off on some tangent trying to get the usb to boot from grub rather than the bios. He also has yet to reveal why he is trying to reinstall in the first place.
[00:46] <daftykins> silly ideas like 'keyboard lag' as i see above
[00:46] <daftykins> i know the situation :)
[00:46] <daftykins> likely gonna give up though, this is the kind of youngster that can't help themselves
[00:47] <OerHeks> the only thing i can think of, just reading back, is that he has fastboot enabled, that can prevent seeing usb devices.
[00:49] <daftykins> i don't know if Windows was mentioned at all, might not be a dualboot
[03:50] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[04:23] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: http://www.basicincome.org/news/2015/06/finland-new-government-commits-to-a-basic-income-experiment/
[04:35] <EriC^^> morning lotuspsychje
[04:35] <lotuspsychje> good morning EriC^^
[08:14] <lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/watch-ubuntu-15-04-running-on-microsoft-s-surface-pro-3-tablet-485349.shtml
[08:17] <EriC^^> cool
[08:17] <lotuspsychje> dont like surface myself, but hey better have ubuntu on it anyways
[08:27] <lotuspsychje> bbl see you laterz
[08:53] <lordievader> Good morning.
[10:34] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[15:59] <lotuspsychje> good evening to all
[16:17] <daftykins> heya o/
[16:17] <daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/222k7jecohmd13b/AABqemkMg4icFEf0Jzjbaj2Ta?dl=0
[16:17] <daftykins> aww yes just put a new screen on a Samsung Galaxy S3
[16:19] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: wow did that yourself?
[16:20] <daftykins> yes sir-ee, it's really simple with this model to be honest
[16:21] <daftykins> well, the little narrow strip cable there had to be very carefully teased out
[16:21] <lotuspsychje> lol
[16:21] <daftykins> a friend once gave me an iPhone 4 he'd taken apart whilst high - and said "have fun" :)
[16:21] <lotuspsychje> i rather like the rougher hardware fixxing
[16:21] <daftykins> using ifixit guides i managed to measure and place all the important screws, then put it back together \o/
[16:21] <daftykins> oh these ones are definitely rage inducing
[16:22] <daftykins> i can't tolerate speaking to anyone whilst working, i just go nuts :D
[16:30] <daftykins> aaah i love the thrill of fixing things :)
[16:30] <lotuspsychje> :p
[16:31] <daftykins> i've got a friends of the exact same model here so i can do that one next
[16:31] <lotuspsychje> $$$$$
[16:31] <daftykins> different colour models are different prices XD
[16:31] <daftykins> well, sadly not so much
[16:31] <lotuspsychje> you be the next smasung helpdesk :p
[16:31] <daftykins> these S3s can be bought for £100 new now, the screens are costing £48
[16:32] <daftykins> i'd rather see it working than thrown away though really
[16:32] <lotuspsychje> big business, i worked in mediamarkt, 90% breaks phone glass
[16:32] <lotuspsychje> girls goto bathroom with it= broke
[16:32] <daftykins> oh? gave it up?
[16:32] <lotuspsychje> steam inside the phone
[16:32] <daftykins> haha
[16:32] <lotuspsychje> yep my collegues were nasty windows freaks
[16:32] <lotuspsychje> and i loved to help ppl with ubutnu installs
[16:34] <daftykins> everyone i work for is tied into MS Outlook so couldn't hop platform really
[16:34] <lotuspsychje> yeah
[16:34] <daftykins> and i don't use desktop Linux so i'd never put ubuntu in for anyone
[16:35] <lotuspsychje> im gonna make a difference with my ubuntu store for sure
[16:35] <daftykins> i think every OS has problems, but you can't really be a jack of all trades... gotta pick one to focus on
[16:35] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: i had to recover win8 boxes all the time and they needed 2 days n nights running updates
[16:36] <lotuspsychje> ubuntu:30min
[16:36] <lotuspsychje> and you got fresh install + updates
[16:36] <OerHeks> updating windows, that alone costs the company many hours :-D
[16:36] <daftykins> i see your point there, but now given the hassles of flash 'support' in Firefox, life's gotten pretty messy
[16:36] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: +1
[16:37] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: if flash reall dies, html5 will raise higher
[16:37] <daftykins> nah my mate works for a school up in England, he's got it set so a clean build can be deployed over the network with Office installed in 30 mins
[16:37] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: yeah, can't happen soon enough
[16:37] <daftykins> but sadly for the time being some sites are still behind
[16:37] <daftykins> i've got xubuntu on that old laptop, runs nicely - but i had to install nautilus to be able to right click and share dropbox links from files
[16:37] <MonkeyDust> 15.10 alpha 1... runningin vmware...
[16:38] <daftykins> then i had to install chromium and pepperflash for normal sites to work
[16:38] <lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: nice, saw that on omgubuntu, hows wily :p
[16:38] <daftykins> bit personal ;)
[16:39] <MonkeyDust> wily is ok and sends greetings
[16:39] <lotuspsychje> lol
[16:39] <lotuspsychje> !willy
[16:39] <lotuspsychje> :p
[16:39] <daftykins> =]
[16:41] <lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/watch-ubuntu-15-04-running-on-microsoft-s-surface-pro-3-tablet-485349.shtml
[16:44] <daftykins> lotuspsychje: my hope for Windows 10 with this funny rolling release idea, is that they'll release regular ISOs that are more up to date so the whole patching chain doesn't continue
[16:44] <daftykins> 'cause i agree, 8 was absolutely atrocious - though i mostly avoided it due to being an absolute lemon of an OS anyway :)
[16:44] <lotuspsychje> 10 will be surely another previous windows clone
[16:44] <lotuspsychje> with lighter feeling
[16:45] <daftykins> i've been playing with the preview, it's faster than even 7 in general usage O_O
[16:45] <daftykins> a real pleasant change
[16:46] <daftykins> in fact i should boot up my test PC here with the preview on
[16:46] <MonkeyDust> i liked windows 10 too, but my old laptop/vmware couldnt handle it after 2 build upgrades
[16:47] <daftykins> how so?
[16:47] <daftykins> ran slowly?
[16:47] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: alive?
[16:47] <lordievader> lotuspsychje: Sure, why not?
[16:47] <MonkeyDust> yes, and heating issues...
[16:48] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: TJ- has some issues about hd's and virtual machines, wanna listen to him?
[16:48] <lordievader> Go ahead.
[16:48] <daftykins> hey that's a fellow helper right? should join here
[16:48] <lotuspsychje> yep invited him :p
[16:48] <daftykins> cool
[16:49] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: can you re-ask your issue to lordievader plz?
[16:49] <daftykins> TJ-: welcome o/
[16:50] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: and welcome here, we have gathered the 'good guys' volunteers here :p
[16:50]  * lordievader is back in a bit
[16:50] <MonkeyDust> nothing remarkable so far, in 15.10...
[16:50] <TJ-> trying to find a way to simulate 4K sized sector devices for testing tooling, but not found a way outside of using a VM, which is not a usable solution for mastering images on such simulated devices
[16:50] <TJ->  I've been doing extensive research on this for over a week now, including my kernel patches. I've been hoping to find another, sneaky, way through some obscure tool that might support it. For example, qemu supports configuring the physical and logical sector-size of its virtual drives, but unfortunately what I'm doing can't make use of a virtual machine
[16:51] <daftykins> sounds like you need to buy yourself an Advanced Format drive ;)
[16:52] <TJ-> I have the drives, but I need to be able to simulate them for tooling for building images
[16:52] <TJ-> I'm working on a universal GRUB2-bootable image that'll work on x86/amd64, BIOS and UEFI, with raw block and ISO9660/El Torito, supporting multiple sector sizes (512/2048/4096) and want to design it to work with the current tooling
[16:53] <lordievader> TJ-: Use a loopback device.
[16:54] <lordievader> Make an image with dd, then turn them into a virtual device with the loopback stuff.
[16:54] <TJ-> I'm continuing with my kernel loop driver patches, which is the best way, but it's taking more time than I anticipated due to knock-on effects, so I was hoping I might find another sneaky way to do so I can get on with actually creating the images and patching the various tooling to work correctly
[16:55] <TJ-> lordievader: That doesn't work, you're missing my point. the loop driver hard-codes 512 byte sectors. My kernel patches are changing that but are not yet ready, as I mentioned
[16:55] <lordievader> Hmm, I see.
[16:56] <MonkeyDust> right...
[16:56]  * lotuspsychje doesnt understand nothing about it
[16:56] <MonkeyDust> (talking to my pc)
[16:56] <TJ-> lordievader: hence looking for a 'sneaky' way around it until those patches are ready, so I can build images and do testing :)
[16:56] <lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: lol
[16:56] <lordievader> Nothing springs to mind I'm afraid. I usually don't mind the defaults.
[16:57] <TJ-> I thought nbd might do it, but it doesn't.
[16:57] <TJ-> The issue is this, if an image is created on a 512-byte sector block device that will fail on a 4096-byte device, and visa-versa
[16:59] <TJ-> the reason being that partition offsets and layouts (such as the GPT header and ISO9660 descriptors) are positioned based on their Logical Block Address (LBA) aka sector number... so sector 1 on a 4K sized sector advanced format disk is sector 8 on a 512-byte sector-sized disk
[17:01] <lordievader> And you don't have this problem with VM's?
[17:03] <TJ-> It is possible, with qemu for example, to specify the physical and logical sector size of the virtual disks it presents to the guest, so instead of the default 512/512 it can be set to 512/4096 or 4096/4096 or whatever.
[17:04] <TJ-> Unfortunately the tooling that builds these bootable images can't make use of a VM
[17:05] <lordievader> TJ-: I'm not sure. But I think that the VM thinks it is running on real hardware. So if you can tell a physical machine to use 4K sectors you should be able to tell a VM the same thing.
[17:05] <TJ-> (qemu has the property: <device>.physical_block_size=xxxx
[17:06] <TJ-> lordievader: You can't change the sector size of bare-metal devices. This is why I'm working on adding this functionality to the kernel loop device driver.
[17:07] <lordievader> Ah, then I simply don't understand ;)
[17:07] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: maybe the #ubuntu-devel guys would know this?
[17:07] <lotuspsychje> im searching the net for 4k allignment and ubuntu, but this issue is over my head
[17:07] <lordievader> Or the kernel team.
[17:08] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: know the channel name?
[17:08] <lordievader> Err #ubuntu-kernel or something, ask alis.
[17:08] <lordievader> !alis
[17:08] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[17:08] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I've asked in there the last couple of days but no-one has spoken up, and I used to be on the kernel team, and work on the mainline kernel,  so I'm very familiar with this kernel avenue.
[17:09] <lordievader> TJ-: Nice, nice :)
[17:09] <TJ-> this is why, for now, I was hoping there's some tool out there that can simulate this... I did look hard at device-mapper but it seems this is the 1 thing it can't do :)
[17:09] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: how about the ##linux guys + 4k ?
[17:10] <TJ-> Yeah, been asking there and in ##kernel too, I hang out in those channels as well as the ubuntu ones
[17:10] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: can you specify the search string? a tool to simulate..
[17:11] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: "simulate 4K sector size" is about as tight as I can get :)
[17:11] <lotuspsychje> ok tnx lemme dig the net :p
[17:11] <lordievader> Are there disks with a 4K sector size?
[17:12] <TJ-> The annoying part is, the file-system tools will allow you to specify the underlying sector size (to alignment purposes) but it also needs to be done at the lower level
[17:12] <TJ-> lordievader: Yes, it's the standard for >2TB devices
[17:12] <lordievader> Ah, yes I see. (Just checked my 3TB drive)
[17:13] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: can this help: http://flashdba.com/4k-sector-size/
[17:15] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: That just explains how 4KB sectors are implemented and the backward-compatibility with 512B sectors (emulation mode) is done
[17:15] <lotuspsychje> k
[17:18] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: This is going to be some low-level Linux-specific tool that works with block devices, such as device-mapper (dmsetup), Multiple Devices (mdadm), or similar
[17:20] <TJ-> mdadm has the concept of chunks but that doesn't translate to what userspace sees as sector sizes
[17:29] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: i would go talk around with ##hardware or ##linux
[17:29] <lotuspsychje> never know someone knows something
[17:32] <TJ-> I'm going to spend part of the weekend doing more work on the kernel loop device driver; I think I'm almost there with that. I can also start to investigate the tooling packages to ensure they won't fall over with differing sector sizes. I was just hoping I'd overlooked some tool that does this as a side-effect.
[17:39] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: join ##hardware you need to help me
  someone knows a package for linux that can simulate 4K sector size?
 bad idea
 compdoc: why?
 i don't even understand what you mean 'simulate'
 package?
 vmware?
 why simulate 4K sector?
 you can get the kernel to lie about sector size, sure
 i think he just means offset for 4k
 emulating old devices?
 if you need the offset, gparted aligns to 1MB
 also, it must be low level then I guess
[17:40] <lotuspsychje> * rjno has quit ()
 you could potentially set up a fake MTD with such a sector size
 linux and windows all understand 4k sector sizes, and 512 sector size. let them handle it
[17:41] <daftykins> a mate of mine hangs out in there
[17:41] <daftykins> they're all idiots i'm afraid
[17:41] <lotuspsychje> lol
[17:41] <daftykins> not gonna get much deep level input i suspect
[17:46] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: seems like someone is smart over there :p
[17:47] <daftykins> must be new ;)
[17:47] <lotuspsychje> haha
[17:47] <daftykins> i considered joining once 'cause i enjoy hardware, but... yeah.
[17:47] <daftykins> not interested in picking out parts for people really
[17:47] <lotuspsychje> yeah most of the times their pretty m0rrons
[17:48] <daftykins> mmm, same as #ubuntu but different topic :>
[17:48] <lotuspsychje> !find gluebi
[17:49] <lotuspsychje> oO
[17:50] <daftykins> wat
[17:50] <daftykins> :D
[17:50] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: thats what the smart guy suggests to TJ- gluebi driver (mainline)
[17:51] <daftykins> ah, i was more thinking of the funny output from the bot though
[17:51] <daftykins> back shortly
[17:51] <lotuspsychje> kk
[17:58] <MonkeyDust> !happiness
[17:59] <lotuspsychje> oO
[17:59] <lotuspsychje> i want one!
[18:00] <MonkeyDust> happiness seems to be associated with food, that's interesting...
[18:01] <lotuspsychje> :p
[18:07] <daftykins> i can go with that
[18:07] <daftykins> i have a belgian chocolate all butter cookie from the coffee shop here in front of me 8)
[18:08] <lotuspsychje> i have a whole country with cookies like that
[18:08] <lotuspsychje> :p
[18:08] <daftykins> XD
[18:11] <lotuspsychje> !cookie | daftykins
[18:12] <daftykins> 8D
[18:13] <daftykins> shame i bought and paid for it myself :(
[18:13] <daftykins> makes me wonder how much money we could put into open source from providing help really
[18:13] <daftykins> sometimes when people are feeling really generous after my help with Kodi (new name for XBMC) they offer money or beer, so i say donate instead if they feel like it
[18:13] <daftykins> works out well :)
[18:14] <lotuspsychje> :p
[18:15] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: found something usefull after that konversation?
[18:15]  * lotuspsychje grabs the half of daftykins cookie
[18:17]  * EriC^^ shoots lotuspsychje with a tranquilizer
[18:17] <lotuspsychje> loool
[18:17]  * OerHeks bites lotuspsychje ..nummie
[18:17] <OerHeks> uh oh... where am i
[18:17] <EriC^^> magic cookie?
[18:17] <EriC^^> :P
[18:17] <lotuspsychje> youl have to come with stronger toys to paralize lotuspsychje :p
[18:18]  * lotuspsychje is protected by ubuntu-shield
[18:18] <daftykins> OerHeks: you're awake! this is real! :>
[18:18] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:18] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: Not so far... lots of layers of indirection but not found a way to set the sector size so far
[18:18] <lotuspsychje> so far for quality ubuntu discussions...
[18:19] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: but will that UBI help you out?
[18:22] <TJ-> It doesn't look like it... it's just making more of a mess!
[18:22] <lotuspsychje> bummers
[18:23] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i presume you dont know howto simulate 4k sector size either?
[18:24] <EriC^^> huh, no :P
[18:24] <lotuspsychje> tnx for trying :p
[18:25] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: guess you on your own again mate
[18:25] <MonkeyDust> I just copy/paste's 'sudo apt-get update' from a tutorial   <-- laziness...
[18:26] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:26] <lotuspsychje> and i added a ppa for winusb to create a win8 usb
[18:26] <TJ-> It requires:  losetup /dev/loop0 disk.img && modprobe block2mtd block2mtd=/dev/loop0,4096 && modprobe ubi && modprobe gluebi && ubiformat && ubinize -o /tmp/ubi.img -p 4KiB -m 512 ubi.ini && ubiattach /dev/ubi_ctrl -m 0 ... and still end up with 512 byte sectors :)
[18:27] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: confront that hardware guy with it, he might reply back :p
[18:27] <lotuspsychje> this is chinese for me
[18:28] <daftykins> why would you need a program to create a windows 8 flash drive? is that for legacy installs?
[18:28] <daftykins> as otherwise, creating a plain FAT volume and pasting the ISO contents is perfecto for EFI :>
[18:28] <TJ-> I'm sure it'll be quicker to just get on with my kernel loop driver modifications
[18:28] <lotuspsychje> daftykins: what do you use?
[18:28] <lotuspsychje> dd?
[18:28] <daftykins> nah you can't dd windows ones afaik
[18:29] <lotuspsychje> winusb works like a charm for me
[18:29] <daftykins> if you need legacy boot then i create from Windows so i'm ok, but EFI installs you just do the above
[18:29] <lotuspsychje> well i formatted a laptop with ubuntu for a kid
[18:30] <lotuspsychje> but i never save windows partitions
[18:30] <lotuspsychje> and he wanted to game
[18:30] <daftykins> ah, oops
[18:30] <lotuspsychje> so i installed a w8 iso on usb
[18:30] <daftykins> so it came with 8 EFI'd?
[18:30] <lotuspsychje> yep
[18:30] <lotuspsychje> but cant use the internal restore option anymore
[18:30] <daftykins> yeah so pasting contents is all you need :)
[18:31] <lotuspsychje> w8 is up n running so the kids glad :p
[18:31] <daftykins> anyway don't mean to second guess, thought it could be handy/interesting though
[18:31] <lotuspsychje> he can play LOTR lego again
[18:31] <daftykins> lawl
[18:31] <lotuspsychje> :p
[18:34] <MonkeyDust> is that a w8 live session?
[18:35] <daftykins> no such thing
[18:35] <MonkeyDust> not w8 on a usb stick?
[18:36] <lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: no, w8 iso bootable
[18:36] <daftykins> yeah but you don't get a live session, only the Windows preinstallation environment
[18:36] <lordievader> TJ-: Good luck on your kernel driver ;)
[18:36] <MonkeyDust> but it does not install?
[18:36] <daftykins> no that's not the topic :)
[18:36] <lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: yes, i get the same install screen as w7
[18:36] <TJ-> lordievader: thanks... it's not far off now, should be done and tested tomorrow night :)
[18:37] <daftykins> i was just discussing how you don't need to mess with boot sector crap anymore
[18:37] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: if gluebi is mainline, the #ubuntu-devel guys must know all this right???
[18:37] <lordievader> Nice nice.
[18:37] <lordievader> That is still on my list of things that I should do, write a kernel module.
[18:39] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: gluebi does exactly the opposite of what AStorm thought it did, it's totally not going to help
[18:39] <TJ-> lordievader: It can be a frustrating learning curve; I started back in 2005
[18:39] <MonkeyDust> what's gluebi?
[18:41] <lotuspsychje> MonkeyDust: thats what the guy from ##hardware suggested to TJ-
[18:41] <lotuspsychje> not sure whats it for
[18:42] <lotuspsychje> the whole night is being chinese to me
[18:47] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: It's pretty simple. Raw physical flash devices are called Memory Technology Devices (MTD). Unsorted BIock Images (UBI) are a way to define where the non-erased blocks are, to provide Flash wear-levelling support.
[18:49] <TJ-> UBI cannot be addressed directly by tools that are written to manage block devices, so GLUEBI can be layered on top of a UBI volume and make it look like an MTD block device once again, so that tools like partitioners, file system formattting, etc., can use it
[18:50] <lotuspsychje> think i would understand more, if i see you playing with all your tools
[18:50] <lordievader> TJ-: That is why I have been putting it off.
[18:52] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: So to use UBI for my purposes I'd have a file on disk representing a disk image, maybe an ISO. I'd have to loop-mount (/dev/loop0), then use the kernel's block2mtd module to make that look like an MTD device, then format that MTD device with UBI, and then layer GLUEBI on top of that to make the UBI look like an MTD. At that point I *might* have a device that reports the sector sizes I require *if* one of the layers was configurable in that re
[18:52] <TJ-> gard. But... none of those layers provide a way to specify a  (sector) block-size since MTD/UBI are intrinsically *not* block devices like ATA/SCSI devices
[18:54] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: the simple part is... when 'gdisk', 'fdisk', or any other partitioning tool accesses the simluated device it needs to be able to see a physical and/or logical sector size other than 512 bytes so that what it writes to that device is in the correct location
[18:56] <TJ-> Hence my work on the loop driver. The easiest solution to this is to be able to alter the sector size values reported for a /dev/loopX device which has a simple disk file as its backing store
[19:01] <lotuspsychje> right :p