[06:58] <mcphail> Morining all. Have been having a look at Amazon's Alexa. Do you think there would be interest in this for the platform to bring Siri/Google Now-type functions?
[06:59] <mcphail> https://developer.amazon.com/public/solutions/alexa
[07:00] <dholbach> good morning
[07:26] <zzarr> hello! I would like someone to help me with BoardConfig.mk for a new device (Motorola Droid 4/maserati)
[07:33] <idoit23> Just looking for advice. How can someone who is almost 30 and never had a job get one? I have been applying(fast food, retail, entry level) just to be told I am not what they are looking for (We have reviewed your application for this position and will be proceeding with other candidates at this time.) or they are not hiring. No interviews. Cannot volunteer as there is no where near too
[07:34] <zzarr> idoit23: What country are you living in?
[07:35] <idoit23> USA
[07:36] <zzarr> you have tested everything?
[07:37] <idoit23> what
[07:40] <idoit23> tested what
[07:45] <zzarr> applying for jobs you don't want or think you is really qualified for?
[07:46] <idoit23> I HAVE
[07:58] <zzarr> I guess you're not lucky then
[08:14] <lotuspsychje> http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/watch-ubuntu-15-04-running-on-microsoft-s-surface-pro-3-tablet-485349.shtml
[08:18] <zzarr> what should I set TARGET_KERNEL_CONFIG to?
[08:18] <zzarr> (in BoardConfig.mk)
[09:02] <duflu> What's the package to target for indicator-bar bugs?
[09:03] <svij> duflu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Avengers#Indicators
[09:04] <svij> pick the right one from that list
[09:04] <duflu> svij: Thanks. Though this bug applies to all indicators. Probably should be assigned to Qt or Unity8
[09:24] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Chocolate Pudding Day! 😃
[09:27] <matv1> is there still no one who experienced that when starting music player, audiolevel  initially goes to max (on BQ)?
[09:27] <matv1> I cannot reproduce consistently but experienced it 2 or 3 times now.. It think it started since OTA4
[09:28] <matv1> it has caught me offguard a couple of times now, and my ears are starting to bleed :(
[09:29] <ogra_> matv1, seems bug 1468811 was recently filed ...
[09:40] <matv1> ogra_ ah see! Thanks. I too got it only when using headphones but didnt expect that it could be related to having headphone plugged in or not
[09:44] <ogra_> well, click the "me too" button on the top left ...
[09:44] <ogra_> that will raise the severity
[09:44] <matv1> I did :)
[09:44] <ogra_> cool :)
[09:53] <matv1> ogra_ I was wondering if there was something I could extract to get things rolling. I think I might have found a consistency after all but have to test. Who would be the one to talk to? Its now assigned to Canonical Phone Foundations
[09:57] <ogra_> well, leave a comment on the bug
[09:58] <matv1> ogra_ right!
[09:59]  * ogra_ doesnt know who the canonical-phonedations team actually is nowadays 
[10:00] <ogra_> john-mcaleely, ^^^ i guess thats you ?
[10:02] <evergreen> May I ask for help of porting u-touch into xperia s?
[10:11] <john-mcaleely> ogra_, it is indeed
[10:11] <ogra_> so you re-vived the team, yay :)
[10:12] <ogra_> (i never like the name ... but it definitely has a nicer ring to it than "phone plumbers" which kind of brings pictures to my head)
[10:13] <john-mcaleely> there is no phonedations team, but there is a phonedations backlog
[10:13] <ogra_> ah
[10:13] <john-mcaleely> we're hwe (hardware enablement) for now
[10:21] <zzarr> hello! I get a message "Warning: you may need to install module-init-tools" and then the make fails
[10:37] <zzarr> solved it, I was missing some packages
[10:52] <ogra_> chrisccoulson, hmm http://get.webgl.org works fine on the arale (MX4) but not at all on krillin (bq4.5) ... smells like a driver issue or some such
[10:52] <ogra_> john-mcaleely, ^^
[10:53]  * ogra_ just saw a user on G+ complain ... and seems he is right
[11:00] <jgdx> cyphermox, hi, quick question, did networkmanager do something wrong here [1]? [connection][type] = wifi ??
[11:01] <jgdx> [1] http://paste.ubuntu.com/11776155/
[11:31] <ogra_> bug 1469119
[11:31] <ogra_> there we go
[11:37] <popey> jdstrand: i can't recall if I filed a bug for apparmor about not being able to run commands in the terminal. so I added a task to this one.. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/apparmor/+bug/1443591
[11:38]  * ogra_ thinks we should re-work the terminal completely ... no confinement, no app lifecycle 
[11:52] <jgdx> that would be wonderful
[11:54] <ogra_> for security you have to enter your PIN already anyway ...
[11:54] <ogra_> and if you then want to shoot yourself in the foot you should just be able to :)
[11:55] <ogra_> (and for desktop use you just drop the trust-store (PIN) popup)
[11:59] <Tm_T> I cannot ditch android phone because of Ubuntu phone terminal dies if it's not active
[11:59] <ogra_> why is that ?
[11:59] <Tm_T> ogra_: irssi
[11:59] <tathhu> Tm_T: i'm not having that kind of problem in sailfish :P
[11:59] <Tm_T> tathhu: sure (:
[12:00] <Tm_T> setting up ssh connection every time you take a peek to Twitter for example, uffff
[12:00] <ogra_> Tm_T, use the kiwi app from the store and connect to a bip proxy ;)
[12:00] <jgdx> lol
[12:00] <Tm_T> or like the other day, I was coding and I checked documentation from the browser
[12:00] <Tm_T> ... fg back to editor every time
[12:00] <ogra_> (kiwi auto-reconnects ... bip will replay the backlog)
[12:01] <Tm_T> ogra_: I rather would have constant connection (:
[12:01] <Tm_T> I even did in early 2000 with those "dumb" phones with midp software, I could read browser and have ssh to irssi at the same time
[12:02] <Tm_T> not to mention good old HP iPaq I have (:
[12:02] <ogra_> Tm_T, well, for constant IRC we just need the telepathy plugin installed by default
[12:03] <ogra_> then you can just have a UI app attaching to it
[12:03]  * ogra_ bets there is a bug open for telepathy irc integration
[12:03] <Tm_T> ogra_: that too
[12:04] <Tm_T> ogra_: ... 140 channels doable with that?
[12:04] <ogra_> no idea, i never used it
[12:04] <Tm_T> not that I use irc much (;
[12:04] <ogra_> i just know it will allow using IRc via telepathy ... which provides a permanently running backend process
[12:04] <ogra_> i dont see why the number of channels would play any role though
[12:06] <ogra_> (except for RAM limits that you might hit ... )
[12:07] <tathhu> +N gigs of ram, no problem :>
[12:14] <jdstrand> dholbach: hi! I was looking in https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-sdk-team/+archive/ubuntu/staging and it looks like you did an upload of the review tools
[12:14] <jdstrand> dholbach: I uploaded 0.29 to wily yesterday
[12:15] <jdstrand> dholbach: are these auto-uploaded?
[12:15] <popey> ogra bug 1452705
[12:15] <ogra_> popey, yeah
[12:15]  * ogra_ me toos
[12:15]  * popey pokes tvoss with ^
[12:16]  * tvoss increments counter
[12:17] <ogra_> lol
[12:17] <popey> :(
[12:17]  * ogra_ guesses thats not what popey was after
[12:20] <ogra_> oh
[12:20] <ogra_> you want it tied to developer mode
[12:20] <ogra_> thats indeed a lot more work
[12:20] <popey> I didn't. But it was suggested that this was the best way forward.
[12:20] <ogra_> yeah, but it means that qtmir needs to learn about developer mode ...
[12:21] <ogra_> while just an exception is in max a three line patch
[12:21] <praxy> Hi, I want to install ubuntu (or any other gnu/linux) alongside the android lxc container in my vegetahd (bq e5hd) device. With lxc-create etc. Any docs / pointers / people who've done this before?
[12:21] <ogra_> (at least if the code didnt change since i looked last ... which is a while ago admittedly)
[12:22] <ogra_> praxy, no, i dont think aynone has done that before ... if you do it, keep notes and blog about it ;)
[12:22] <ogra_> you will have to use some writable space for the rootfs though ... like /home/phablet/ or space on the SD
[12:22] <Tm_T> ogra_: usability is one
[12:23] <Tm_T> ogra_: talking about why large number of channels might not work with every client
[12:23] <praxy> ogra_: ok... will do. Well the install is easy. Just pull template file from lxc package and lxc-create it. Works so far, but ran into cgroup related errors when trying to start it.
[12:23] <praxy> you using -P /home/ubuntu
[12:23] <praxy> yea* using -P /home/ubuntu
[12:23] <ogra_> Tm_T, well, but thats a matter of the UI and its design .. i cant imagine teechnical limits foor the telepathy backend
[12:24] <Tm_T> ogra_: yeah, it's just that irssi works too well with tmux for me to want to make any changes (:
[12:24] <Tm_T> not to mention my work being mostly poking stuff over ssh anyway
[12:24] <ogra_> praxy, what release is it using for the target ? might be systemd that causes this ... if you try something pre-vivid it will use upstart
[12:25] <ogra_> Tm_T, well, there is the openappstore ... that has a tool to exclude the terminal from lifecycle i think
[12:26] <ogra_> (just not the same as having the app do it by default=
[12:26] <ogra_> )
[12:30] <praxy> ogra_: it's the same with the debian/gentoo template though. I'll have to come back with exact errors since I don't have the device on hands right now. Template uses precise.
[12:30] <ogra_> well, debian is systemd as well ... not sure what gentoo uses by default
[12:30] <dholbach> jdstrand, a daily build goes to /staging
[12:30] <dholbach> jdstrand, to the release ppa they get manually copied over
[12:31] <nocturn> Hi guys, I'm awaiting my Meizu phone and wanted to check some things already in anticipation :-)
[12:31] <nocturn> Can I use Jabber on Ubuntu touch?
[12:32] <nocturn> And does it support Activesync?
[12:33] <ogra_> Tm_T, https://open.uappexplorer.com/ in case you dont know about it ... https://open.uappexplorer.com/apps ... tweakgeek should allow to exclude the terminal from the lifecycle
[12:33] <ogra_> nocturn, no to both (yet)
[12:34] <jdstrand> dholbach: cool, thanks!
[12:36] <nocturn> ogra_, that is a shame.  Activesync I suspected that a bit, though lack of Jabber support surprises me
[12:37] <ogra_> nocturn, it is just that nobody had time to work on it yet ... and nobody from the community picked it up either ... for jabber a telepathy-xmpp plugin would have to be included ... then people could write UIs for it
[12:37] <ogra_> not sure if there are any plans for activesync though
[12:37]  * ogra_ didnt know that still exists ... i thought that died with the rising of android
[12:38] <ogra_> i havent seen activesync being used by anyone since my last iPaq :)
[12:38] <nocturn> ogra_, activesync?  That is the default protocol to sync with Exchange from any phone.  I don't care about exchange but Zarafa has z-push which works really well
[12:39] <ogra_> ah ... thats what 15 years of linux does to you :) i didnt know :)
[12:39] <nocturn> Most phones don't call it that BTW, it will be labeled business mail account or Exchange account
[12:39] <nocturn> I use in on a Linux server with Zarafa
[12:40] <ogra_> (the last MS OS i touched for actually doing work with it was XP when it was brabdnew)
[12:41] <nocturn> ogra_, same here, my last was Windows 98
[12:41] <ogra_> i wonder if dekko could do it without having actual extra stuff implemented on OS level
[12:41] <nocturn> but Zarafa is completely Linux based and GPL'd, it has native support for MAPI and ActiveSync
[12:41] <ogra_> but i guess you would want accounts integration in the OS
[12:41] <nocturn> Zimbra too BTW
[12:43] <zzarr> how do I avoid the "Using prebuilt kernel binary instead of source" message?
[12:46] <Kva_Gram> hello?
[12:50] <nocturn> ogra_, I am looking in to syncevolution, there is a chance it will do activesync
[12:51] <ogra_> nocturn, oh, sure, but there wont be UI options
[12:51] <ogra_> you will have to do it via ssh or adb
[12:52] <nocturn> ogra_, I don't mind the command line, it is one of the reasons I'm looking forward to this phone
[12:52] <ogra_> :)
[12:56] <nocturn> So another question, can it do OpenVPN?
[12:56] <ogra_> only from commandline ... but yeah it is installed in the image
[12:57] <ogra_> (you need to do the setup in /home/phablet and have a custom start script)
[12:57] <nocturn> Great
[13:06] <cyphermox> jgdx: no
[13:07] <cyphermox> jgdx: I suppose you're the one who changed password and identity to [omitted]
[13:07] <cyphermox> oh, perhaps it should be 802-11-wireless rather than wifi though
[13:13] <jgdx> cyphermox, yeah, that's what I figured. But our community friend says it works.
[13:13] <jgdx> wifi instead of 802-11-wireless, that is
[13:13] <cyphermox> well, does it?
[13:14] <jgdx> pete-woods, ^ let me know when you've given it a try :)
[13:14] <pete-woods> jgdx: go a silo?
[13:14] <pete-woods> *got
[13:14] <cyphermox> indeed wifi would work
[13:14] <jgdx> pete-woods, debs :|
[13:14] <pete-woods> for arm?
[13:14] <jgdx> cyphermox, great. Is that documented somewhere?
[13:14] <cyphermox> I don't know, suspect it must be
[13:15] <jgdx> pete-woods, http://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/generic-mediumtests-builder-wily-armhf/118/artifact/work/output/*zip*/output.zip — you want to skip autopilot and libsys1_dev
[13:16] <jgdx> cyphermox, okay. nm-applet also creates a type=wifi
[13:17] <jgdx> pete-woods, there has been some fixes since those debs were built, will kick a new build.
[13:25] <pete-woods> jgdx: okay, will wait for that
[13:39] <sil2100> anpok: hey! I'm assigning a silo for your mir landing - just remember that when you ask someone to upload the xorg-packages etc. to the silo, be sure to mention that they should upload both vivid and wily versions to the PPA
[13:42] <anpok> ok
[13:42] <sil2100> Thanks
[13:44] <zzarr> how do I avoid the "Using prebuilt kernel binary instead of source" message?
[13:45] <sil2100> hmm
[13:45] <zzarr> is there something I need to write in the "BoradConfig.mk"?
[13:45] <zzarr> file*
[13:45] <ogra_> zzarr, grep the source, find where the message comes from and wlak up the code path
[13:45] <ogra_> *walk
[13:45] <zzarr> "grep the source"?
[13:46] <zzarr> do you mean the makefile?
[13:46] <ogra_> grep -r "blah blah" ./ ...
[13:47] <ogra_> find where the mesage comes from ... then go backwards through the code ... (find what calls the function that prints it ... find what calls the finction above etc etc ... til you find the right place to change it)
[13:48] <zzarr> it tells me right the way "build/core/tasks/kernel.mk:104"
[13:50] <zzarr> it says that it's depercated to use a rebuilt kernel
[13:51] <conyoo> yay mir 0.15
[13:51] <zzarr> but it was built first when I ran the "make" command
[13:53] <zzarr> I just realized that might not have been the cause of the fail, I think it's a matter of pebkac
[13:53] <zzarr> sry
[13:54] <zzarr> the real problem is that "/android.config" don't exists
[13:55] <zzarr> googling now
[13:59] <zzarr> I have to go, bye
[14:38] <Laney> renatu: hey, any news on checking out qtorganizer5-eds w/3.16?
[14:45] <renatu> Laney, not yet, probably next, week
[14:45] <renatu> Laney, sorry for that. I am very busy with other stuff
[14:46] <Laney> ok
[14:46] <Laney> I will file a bug to track it
[14:50] <chrisccoulson> What are regular expressions in QML converted to on the C++ side?
[14:50] <chrisccoulson> http://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qtqml-cppintegration-data.html doesn't give any idea
[14:56] <mardy> jdstrand: hi!
[14:56] <mardy> jdstrand: about bug 1468792, I'm not sure about your last comment
[14:57] <mardy> jdstrand: I would say that yes, the "networking" template could be set as mandatory, but for the webview I'd have just a warning, or maybe not even that
[14:58] <mardy> jdstrand: there are many services (like owncloud) which use different authentication methods (plain username and passowrd?) which don't require a webview
[14:59] <jdstrand> mardy: alright, I update the tools
[15:01] <ogra_> yeah, and IRC ... jabber ...
[15:04] <Cristian__> Hi
[15:05] <Cristian__> Ubuntu is used in cell phone LG G2 mini D625?
[16:01] <ogra_> pmcgowan, kenvandine, is the fix for bug 1437510 supposed to be landed somewhere already ... my arale recently started to behave like the krillin and also dims after 30sec regardless of what i set for the locking
[16:01] <ogra_> (and my krillin never changed since i have it)
[16:01] <kenvandine> ogra_, should have
[16:02] <ogra_> :(
[16:02] <kenvandine> let me check my device
[16:02] <ogra_> i generally have my screen lock set to 3min on all devices ...
[16:02] <ogra_> (or to never if i use the phone in-car)
[16:02] <kenvandine> gsettings get com.ubuntu.touch.system dim-timeout
[16:03] <ogra_> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ gsettings get com.ubuntu.touch.system dim-timeout
[16:03] <ogra_> uint32 45
[16:03] <kenvandine> ok, change your lock timeout then check again
[16:04] <ogra_> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ gsettings get com.ubuntu.touch.system dim-timeout
[16:04] <ogra_> uint32 230
[16:04] <ogra_> thats after changing from my default (3 min) to 4min
[16:04] <kenvandine> ok... my *fix* is on your device... i just hate my fix :)
[16:04] <ogra_> and after changing back to 3min:
[16:04] <ogra_> phablet@ubuntu-phablet:~$ gsettings get com.ubuntu.touch.system dim-timeout
[16:04] <ogra_> uint32 170
[16:04] <ogra_> so the initial value is crap
[16:04] <kenvandine> imo if the screen dimming is supposed to be relative to the lock timeout
[16:04] <kenvandine> we shouldn't have  setting at all
[16:04] <ogra_> after changing the setting it is correct
[16:05] <ogra_> yes
[16:05] <kenvandine> my fix was just to make the dim setting change when the other changed
[16:05] <kenvandine> so it won't happen unless you twiddle it
[16:05] <ogra_> well, why doesntr it persist is the question :)
[16:05] <kenvandine> it will persist
[16:05]  * ogra_ reboots the phone 
[16:06] <ogra_> (and since i'm an evil guy i just hold down power)
[16:06] <kenvandine> you are evil
[16:06] <kenvandine> it's gsettings, should persist
[16:06] <ogra_> yeah, it does
[16:07]  * ogra_ checks the krillin
[16:07] <ogra_> kenvandine, btw, what do you do for "never" ?
[16:07] <kenvandine> ogra_, feel free to comment on the bug that you think it should be fixed in unity-system-compositor
[16:08] <kenvandine> 50
[16:08] <ogra_> (where suppressing the dimming can be essential ... i.e. in car when using GPS)
[16:08] <ogra_> uuuh
[16:08] <ogra_> thats bad
[16:08] <kenvandine> we need an api for that
[16:08] <ogra_> just default to 5000 ;)
[16:08] <ogra_> or some such :)
[16:08] <ogra_> as a workaround
[16:08] <kenvandine> we need to just fix it in unity-system-compositor :)
[16:09] <ogra_> or that :)
[16:09] <kenvandine> and add an API for apps to keep the screen on
[16:09] <ogra_> krillin works too :)
[16:09] <kenvandine> my fix is really just a work around... annoys me, but i couldn't get anyone to comment
[16:10] <kenvandine> so the workaround is better than nothing
[16:11] <seb128_> haaackks
[16:11] <seb128_> or how to never get bugs fixed
[16:11] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:11] <seb128_> you should not have caved in, just nag people until they fix it in the proper place
[16:12] <kenvandine> seb128, ogra_: i reopened the unity-system-compositor task
[16:12] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[16:12] <kenvandine> can you guys echo the importance in the bug report?
[16:13] <kenvandine> help get traction
[16:13] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, ^^
[16:13] <kenvandine> pmcgowan, i'd still like a proper fix for bug 1437510
[16:13] <ogra_> kenvandine, heh, i wonder if we clashed, i did the same :)
[16:14] <kenvandine> ogra_, thx!
[16:15] <ogra_> WOAH !
[16:15] <ogra_> so before i rebooted my arale the battery indicator was red ...
[16:15] <ogra_> after reboot i'm at 74%
[16:16]  * ogra_ shakes his head ... so many booogs
[16:18] <ogra_> (it is also funny how it never finds the location correctly for me ... i live in house #5 .... if i'm in a room on the left side of the house location always shows #7 ... on the right side it is always #3 .... i only see #5 about every two weeks)
[16:21] <ogra_> lol, it is funny how people start trading Meizu invites on G+
[16:31] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, should I have not marked that fixed?
[16:31] <kenvandine> well, i worked around it in settings
[16:31] <kenvandine> but i think it should be fixed in usc
[16:32] <pmcgowan> ok
[16:32] <kenvandine> which had been marked as invalid
[16:32] <kenvandine> i really just think the dim-timeout setting should go away, and let usc manage when to dim
[16:32] <kenvandine> since apparently it should always be relative
[16:32] <kenvandine> and eventually we should have an API for apps to request the screen stay awake
[16:33] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, there is a separate bug for that to hook up the standard qml api
[16:33] <kenvandine> yeah, for the API
[16:33] <kenvandine> but the dim-timeout should just go away
[16:33] <kenvandine> and let usc decide when to dim
[16:33] <pmcgowan> yep
[16:33] <kenvandine> which should default to 10 seconds before locking, per design
[16:34] <pmcgowan> oh I see did you add a new setting for it?
[16:34] <ogra_> well, for the "never" setting the dim should at least be infinite
[16:34] <kenvandine> no... i didn't add it
[16:34] <kenvandine> we already had the setting
[16:34] <ogra_> this is really dangerous
[16:34] <kenvandine> it was just never getting changed
[16:34] <pmcgowan> ok
[16:34] <kenvandine> since it was meant to always be lock timeout - 10
[16:34] <ogra_> it is the typical setting to use when in your car
[16:34] <kenvandine> so i added a hack to change dim-timeout whenever lock timeout was changed
[16:35] <ogra_> where you dont want distraction by dimming every 50sec
[16:35] <kenvandine> ogra_, the app should be requesting that though, shouldn't be a setting
[16:35] <ogra_> well, the app cant currently
[16:35] <kenvandine> right
[16:35] <kenvandine> :)
[16:35] <ogra_> so if you use GPS anvigation you usually set it to never
[16:35] <ogra_> and then tap every 50sec
[16:35] <ogra_> until you crash in that tree
[16:36] <pmcgowan> lol
[16:36] <kenvandine> haha
[16:36] <pmcgowan> ogra_, well you have a really old car anyway
[16:36] <ogra_> thats true ... :)
[16:36] <kenvandine> we really need the api for the app to request it
[16:36] <ogra_> it is fast enough to hit the tree hard enough that i never have to care for anything afterwards though :)
[16:36] <kenvandine> i hate the idea of changing that setting just so i can run an app :)
[16:36] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, don't we have what we need, just need to hook it together?
[16:37] <kenvandine> for the API?
[16:37] <kenvandine> usc can handle it, just needs to be exposed somewhere
[16:37] <kenvandine> for dim-timeout, it should just handle dimming the screen relative to the activity-timeout rather than from a setting in gsettings
[16:38] <pmcgowan> I meant the keep the screen on thing
[16:38] <kenvandine> yeah, we have the infrastructure for it
[16:38] <kenvandine> but afaik nothing exposed to the apps
[16:39] <pmcgowan> kenvandine, there is a standard qt api
[16:39] <kenvandine> but does usc honor it?
[16:39] <pmcgowan> not yet, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity8/+bug/1462489/comments/20
[16:40] <kenvandine> we need to expose it either as a property in the toolkit, or maybe even something in the .desktop file
[16:40] <kenvandine> like full screen
[16:40] <pmcgowan> maybe comment on that bug then
[16:44] <kenvandine> i guess maybe only programatically, like you don't want the screen to stay on while just viewing maps, etc... but if you are actively using it for navigation it should
[16:44] <seb128> kenvandine, pmcgowan, do we really need a permission for that? what's the issue with having the foreground application being able to hold the screen?
[16:44] <kenvandine> so maybe that solution is good
[16:44] <ogra_> seb128, battery life
[16:44] <ogra_> seb128, at least thats what tvoss always told me when i asked in the past
[16:45] <kenvandine> maybe use trust-store for that part
[16:45] <seb128> ogra_, well, if the foreground app keep the screen it's quite visible
[16:45] <ogra_> "we dont want to allow apps to drain your battery"
[16:45] <kenvandine> but regardless, it's only when that app is visible
[16:45] <seb128> it's not like it wouldn't be obvious to notice
[16:45] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:45] <seb128> it's not like a bg app was eating cpu
[16:45] <ogra_> i think android has an ability to tie it to the charging state
[16:46] <ogra_> so if you unplug the cable it falls back to default
[16:46] <ogra_> that would surely help in the in-car case already
[16:46] <seb128> so you crash your car because you can't use your gps ? ;-)
[16:46] <ogra_> yeah
[16:47] <seb128> well, I agree with not letting apps doing non obvious things that impact on what you perceive of the system
[16:47] <kenvandine> the app should just be able to keep the screen awake when it's needed
[16:47] <seb128> like use cpu in bg
[16:47] <kenvandine> it's not in the bg
[16:47] <seb128> but if something in bg keep the screen on it's obvious to see
[16:47] <seb128> in fg*
[16:47] <ogra_> sure ... but also easy to forget
[16:48] <seb128> if you use an app that does that and forget it's your fault
[16:48] <ogra_> you put your phone on the table when coming home after you used GPS and forget about it ...
[16:48] <seb128> well, permissions don't fix that usecase
[16:48] <kenvandine> ogra_, no... it's not just "using GPS"
[16:48] <seb128> you would ack the gps app to keep the screen on
[16:48] <ogra_> 30min later the battery is empty and you miss that call where the lottery society wanted to give you 5mio
[16:48] <kenvandine> it's when you are navigating
[16:48] <kenvandine> so when you get home, it should have arrived and exit navigation
[16:49] <ogra_> but you probably forget
[16:49] <kenvandine> the app should exit navigation mode
[16:49] <kenvandine> that's what google maps does
[16:49] <seb128> well, you say the GPS app shouldn't be allowed to keep the screen on ever?
[16:49] <ogra_> so you just pull the phone out of the holder ... and throw it on the table next to your keys
[16:49] <ogra_> seb128, no, i say we should have that feature tied to "charing"
[16:49] <seb128> my car has no usb plug
[16:50] <seb128> I use the gps on battery
[16:50] <ogra_> i personally never use GPS in the car without cable attached
[16:50] <kenvandine> i rarely keep mine plugged in while in my car
[16:50] <ogra_> wow
[16:50] <seb128> ogra_, you have an old car but it has an usb charger? ;-)
[16:50] <ogra_> its not that old and it has a cigarrette lighter :)
[16:50] <seb128> well mine doesn't
[16:50] <kenvandine> with google maps, it's pretty easy to tell it's still in navigation mode
[16:50] <ogra_> (it is only 21)
[16:50] <seb128> and most of the time I use the gps on less than 1 hour drive
[16:50] <kenvandine> and lets you exit nav
[16:50] <ogra_> (just drinking age)
[16:50] <davmor2> seb128: no it has a cigarette lighter that you can plug into a phone :)
[16:50] <john-mcaleely> a phone with another OS is sitting here fully lit up, given that I've started navigation
[16:51] <john-mcaleely> (no cables soiled in this experiment)
[16:51] <john-mcaleely> come back in a few hours to see how it ends
[16:51] <seb128> hehe
[16:51] <seb128> I think we just need to convince tvoss that having a gps app in foreground keep the screen on is ok
[16:51] <seb128> :-)
[16:51] <kenvandine> the other use case is reading an ebook
[16:51] <john-mcaleely> will I be in tears, with a flat battery? will the OS defend itself?
[16:51] <ogra_> well
[16:52] <john-mcaleely> what a cliffhanger
[16:52] <ogra_> for reading an ebook you dont need to keep it on forever
[16:52] <kenvandine> you should
[16:52] <kenvandine> while in reading mode
[16:52] <ogra_> no
[16:52] <ogra_> you should have a very long lock time instead
[16:52] <kenvandine> maybe if you don't turn the page in a long time
[16:52] <kenvandine> it should timeout
[16:52] <ogra_> so you can forget the book and it still doesnt drain
[16:52] <ogra_> how long do you need for reading a page ?
[16:52] <ogra_> 30min ?
[16:53] <kenvandine> i don't think my kid's kindle fire does that though
[16:53] <kenvandine> if you're reading it'll stay lit forever
[16:53] <kenvandine> i might have to do an experiment with that :)
[16:53] <john-mcaleely> my eink kindle gives up and turns off
[16:53] <ogra_> i think allowing an app to bump it to 10min would be enough for the reading case
[16:53] <kenvandine> yeah
[16:53] <kenvandine> but only when focused
[16:53] <ogra_> while GPS needs "never"
[16:54] <seb128> yes, so let's just have an api that let you specify the delay
[16:54] <john-mcaleely> all journeys end ogra
[16:54] <kenvandine> indeed
[16:54] <john-mcaleely> the app can come up and tickle something every now and again
[16:55] <ogra_> john-mcaleely, we dont have an api for that though :)
[16:55] <ogra_> Qt.Tickle()
[16:55] <john-mcaleely> we lack many apis. lots to do for v2
[16:56] <ogra_> (with the Mu_Ha_Ha_HA() callback)
[16:56] <davmor2> john-mcaleely: this phone journey had better not end or we are gonna lynch you ;)
[16:58] <john-mcaleely> my 'other os' phone is still fully lit up
[16:58] <john-mcaleely> no noticable battery depletion yet
[16:59] <ogra_> seb128, btw going to watch the girls play later ?
[17:00] <seb128> ogra_, I might, let's see if we do better in that remix ;-)
[17:00] <ogra_> you are doing really good ... i watched the last game
[17:00] <ogra_> that will be quite a challenge for us :)
[17:01] <pmcgowan> what do we think germany usa final?
[17:01]  * pmcgowan ducks
[17:01] <ogra_> +1
[17:01] <ogra_> i would love to see that
[17:01] <ogra_> but i'm a slight bit doubtful germany will survive today ...
[17:01] <ogra_> france is *really* good
[17:01] <ogra_> definitely on the same level
[17:02] <ogra_> (and definitely a lot better than the guys :P )
[17:03] <anpok> sil2100: for glmark and xorg-xserver, is it enough to upload a source package/
[17:03] <anpok> ?
[17:03] <sil2100> anpok: yes, you would have to prepare the source packages and ask a core-dev/trainguard to upload them for you
[17:03] <anpok> hm or actually glmark does not need to be patched just rebuilt
[17:04] <anpok> ok
[17:39] <SturmFlut> Hm, I had arale (with r2) idling in my backpack for ten hours today, with all radios off, and the battery level went down just four percent points. Does anybody have the numbers for r2 with radios on?
[17:40] <SturmFlut> I didn't really check r2 under "real" conditions because I was mostly connected to it via phablet-shell
[17:43] <svij> SturmFlut: mine got down from 60% last night until 18% right now, I also didn't use it much. (Wifi and cellular were on)
[17:45] <SturmFlut> svij: Thanks! My four percent points do not sound much, but if you extrapolate it, that's about nine days of standby with all radios off. The E4.5 can do seven days of standby with both radios on, and the battery of the MX4 has a 50% higher capacity
[17:46] <svij> yep
[17:46] <SturmFlut> So the actual difference between both devices is quite extreme
[17:47] <svij> the standby time before OTA-3(?) on the bq E4.5 was really bad.
[17:47] <svij> so yeah… could be worse ;)
[17:52] <SturmFlut> svij: I've compared the number of kernel events on krillin and arale, on average it's about the same number. So either those events are more "costly" on arale, or some hardware component doesn't really go into deep sleep, or some hardware component consumes more power to begin with.
[17:55] <SturmFlut> At least the GPU driver claims that the GPU is sleeping
[18:00] <Tm_T> I have to recharge my MX4 every night even on moderate use
[18:01] <SturmFlut> Tm_T: I think people like Selene have to look at it with their magic hardware measuring devices
[18:07] <svij> SturmFlut: interesting
[18:08] <svij> heh, someone hacked the Meizu Invitation thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/3b2kqk/ubuntu_meizu_mx4_for_europe_invitations_game_hack/
[18:09] <SturmFlut> ogra_: I went through all logcat buffers on my arale, actually there are hardly any problems. RIL is sometimes unhappy with the value of the 3G network LAC field, the audio subsystem is a bit unhappy during initialisation, libEGL seems to be called without a valid context quite a bit, the sensors are unhappy with the Acceleration sensor bias
[18:09] <SturmFlut> svij: AHAHAHAHA
[18:10] <SturmFlut> svij: Well, if you are able to pull something like this off, you probably deserve as many phones as you want
[18:10] <svij> SturmFlut: if you have enough money, yes. :)
[18:10] <SturmFlut> svij: That is step 2 of the hack ;)
[18:10] <svij> :D
[18:10] <fraha_> Hi all, I have a question, hope this is the right place to ask. I want to develop an app which processes the incoming and outgoing audio stream during a call. Is there a way to do that with Ubuntu touch? Or is it hopeless to try, like i Android?
[18:13] <SturmFlut> fraha_: Hmmm, that might also depend on the hardware wiring. I have no idea if microphone and speaker are directly connected to the baseband during a call.
[18:13] <SturmFlut> jhodapp, ogra_: Ping
[18:14] <fraha_> so there is no direct audio processing by the os?
[18:14] <SturmFlut> fraha_: I am looking at the MT6582 datasheet, a moment
[18:15] <jhodapp> SturmFlut, speaker and the baseband are at least effectively connected during the call...exact hardware config I'm not sure...currently pulseaudio is not connected to this audio route at all
[18:15] <jhodapp> SturmFlut, rsalveti would know more detail
[18:15] <SturmFlut> jhodapp: I thought so, the baseband also does all the noise cancellation etc. in hardware
[18:16] <jhodapp> correct
[18:17] <SturmFlut> fraha_: It might be possible, but probably not with a lot of help from the drivers and the OS
[18:17] <SturmFlut> s/with/without/
[18:17] <fraha_> ah s**t, this means no way arround, other than e.g. writing an VoIP app...
[18:18] <jhodapp> fraha_, I believe we'll get that ability sometime in the future, although there will be apparmor restrictions around it and the like
[18:22] <SturmFlut> fraha_: At least the block diagram in the MT6582 datasheet doesn't give a clear answer. Audio codec and baseband run a big block of proprietary firmware and on this SoC they are on the same chip, so the OS is not forced to care about calls, it can just tell those two to talk directly to each other
[18:22] <fraha_> thanks for the answers, now i really have to think about another effient way to manipulate audio during a call with mobile phone, give me headache :)
[18:23] <fraha_> SturmFlut: this means that the core functionality of ubuntu touch depens on closed source drivers and firmware?
[18:24] <SturmFlut> fraha_: Yep, like any other phone. There is no chip on the market that supports up to date mobile technologies and has an open firmware at the same time
[18:24] <SturmFlut> Not even the Neo900 solves this problem
[18:25] <SturmFlut> :(
[18:26] <fraha_> ... and i will never understand why..
[18:27] <SturmFlut> fraha_: Well, there are a lot of problems that contribute to this situation.
[18:29] <fraha_> Like money? I guess this is the biggest problem, if it is security they are doing something wrong...
[18:29] <SturmFlut> fraha_: The most important one being that we can't have people running around with modified baseband firmware, a single error can take down multiple networks in a whole area. Baseband vendors go through a lot of testing to make sure that their hardware and software doesn't randomly kill networks, Joe Random does not.
[18:30] <SturmFlut> I trust hackers, but there are a lot of lunatics out there who don't know what they're doing and will just apply random changes from the internet because they think their 4G gets faster or something
[18:30] <SturmFlut> Just look at what some people do to their WiFi chipsets and drivers
[18:33] <fraha_> I can see your point... never underestimate stupidity :)
[18:41] <SturmFlut> fraha_: The other is money, yes. If you want to build an LTE Cat 4 radio from scratch, just reading through all the standard documents will keep a team of people busy for a year. Then it's another couple of years until full validation is completed and rollout can be attempted.
[19:10] <lotuspsychje> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2015/06/why-it-will-be-2016-before-mobile-carriers-sell-ubuntu-phones
[19:11] <SturmFlut> lotuspsychje: Well, 2016 is just six months away
[19:11] <lotuspsychje> silly comments in that article
[19:11] <lotuspsychje> whats wron with telegram anyway
[19:11] <SturmFlut> lotuspsychje: Never read comments on the Internet
[19:12] <SturmFlut> That's why I ditched Reddit
[19:12] <lotuspsychje> i love touch on my n7
[19:12] <lotuspsychje> and much more safer then android
[19:12] <SturmFlut> But while we're at it, I can counter with https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone/msg13704.html
[19:13] <lotuspsychje> cool
[19:14] <SturmFlut> I love the part about the contest, and especially the "I am not a developer and cannot exactly assess how much efforts it is" at the end
[19:15] <lotuspsychje> android is a nightmare of malware
[19:16] <lotuspsychje> why do we need those vulnerable apps anyway
[19:16] <lotuspsychje> mainstream users are also unaware of all security risks
[19:19] <SturmFlut> At the end it's always about WhatsApp, all the time. The people who wine about Android support do not care about Android support, they want their stupid WhatsApp. Of all the services in the world they chose the most asocial one and they don't even get it.
[19:20] <SturmFlut> Stockholm Syndrome, I can't think of another explanation
[19:20] <lotuspsychje> SturmFlut: did you see whatsapp is now on linux too
[19:22] <lotuspsychje> SturmFlut: http://linux.softpedia.com/blog/introducing-the-unofficial-whatsapp-client-for-linux-mac-and-windows-485195.shtml
[19:22] <SturmFlut> lotuspsychje: No it's not. What is available is a thin wrapper around WhatsApp Web, and WhatsApp Web is a joke.
[19:22] <lotuspsychje> lol
[19:23] <lotuspsychje> i wouldnt know, i wont touch whatsapp ever
[19:23] <SturmFlut> WhatsApp Web is not even a standalone client like web.telegram.org
[19:23] <SturmFlut> You can only use WhatsApp Web if your smartphone is running WhatsApp at the same time
[19:23] <lotuspsychje> oO
[19:23] <lotuspsychje> what an idea
[19:24] <SturmFlut> When the phone goes offline, WhatsApp Web just stops working
[19:24] <SturmFlut> And I am absolutely sure that they are already looking for ways to shut down this inofficial client
[19:25] <lotuspsychje> meanwhile users get h4cked on whatsapp all around the globe
[19:35] <SturmFlut> Is anybody here using OSMScout?
[20:22] <kenvandine> jgdx, i'm having some trouble running the libqofono tests
[20:22] <kenvandine> it says to stop and start ofono during the test run?
[20:22] <kenvandine> jgdx, can you try the tests in lp:~ken-vandine/ubuntu/wily/libqofono/libqofono-0.79
[20:22] <kenvandine> jgdx, i did upload it to the phablet-team ppa
[22:05] <SturmFlut> Update time! http://sturmflut.github.io/ubuntu/2015/06/27/ubuntu-app-scope-wishlist-june-2015/
[22:07] <BOHverkill> SturmFlut: nice \o/