[01:22] oh, new linuxvoice podcast [01:22] * diddledan listens === m0nkey__ is now known as m0nkey_ [03:38] so leap seconds. Is there a project out-there that does the googley smear? [04:05] I think the googley smear actually sounds more dangerous [04:06] it works for google because they dictate the entire chain, and customize at-will [04:06] and have the resources to test, test, and test again at scale [04:07] but like, for you and I running 2 or 3 boxes at home. we can't (or don't have the resources) make our ntp servers lie like that [04:08] so you get stuff like what behaviour do you expect if the system's been "smearing" all day and then the ntp servers issue a leap indicator [04:08] we need a smearscan [04:08] or do you expect 3 machines to smear in unison if the ntp server isn't doing it [04:09] I found this tho: https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/time/utc-sls/ [04:11] I suspect it's solving the wrong problem though [04:11] we really should be able to expect stuff to handle the standard without exploding [04:12] I would suggest that human time be considered separately from computer time and have conversions rather than having the whole computer world rely on inaccurate numbers [04:13] I mean, planes don't drop out of the sky every feb 29th. the only real difference is that we remember to take one into account, but not the other [04:13] I like the idea of TAI [04:14] if someone suggested we 'solve' leap years by making most the days in february 25 hours long, you'd laugh them out of the room [04:14] true [04:15] TBH I don't really understand why leapseconds are so dangerous [04:15] as you say, we do it with an entire day in februaru [04:15] it's just much easier to forget they exist [04:16] as far as I can tell it's really that simple. things that need to take it into account didn't. and now we don't trust anything to get it right [04:17] almost entirely unrelated, our (physical) access system at work still doesn't grok DST [04:17] lol [04:18] how does that effect things? [04:18] affect* [04:18] I'm allowed in the building after 5:30am. which means one day a year, I can't let myself in for a 6am shift [04:18] lol [04:18] fun [04:19] time limits on staff seems craycray to me [04:19] so sunday morning security let us in manually, monday morning they just unlock everything at 6am, and sometime monday someone changes the clock on the system, and things go back to normal [04:19] if you're in the building after the timelock of re-entry does it refuse to let you out? [04:19] no, they can't lock us in [04:20] there's all kinds of fire issues with that :) [04:20] bah [04:20] fire shmire [04:20] I just find it an interesting parallel because it's basically the same problem [04:20] they should make you burn [04:21] DST existed before the system was built, and will likely outlive it. so this scenario will exist for the product's entire lifecycle [04:21] that's a good point. twice a year we add and remove stuff [04:21] the fact that it wasn't taken into account is the actual problem [04:21] so really leapseconds aren't without precedent in other places [04:22] as I understand it they're the primary difference between GMT and UTC [04:22] we manage it in february. and mostly with DST. [04:22] (that, and a name that offends the french less than GMT does) [04:22] UTC was invented for the radio time signals (per the link above) [04:24] as I understand it, it would have been UCT in english, or TUC in french. so UTC was picked so it favoured neither. [04:25] lol [04:25] I like CUT [04:25] which would bother me less if the french actually used this timezone [04:25] one slip and you have a swear [04:26] I like the politically-correct versions of GMT & BST [04:26] or the un-britished versions, at least [04:26] "western european time" and "western european summer time". so ireland it WET in the winter and WEST in the summer [04:26] right on both counts [04:27] ireland is most definitely wet in the winter [04:27] and also bothers me that no-one actually uses these :) [04:28] we have a few systems that call it IST - irish summer time. which confuses our bangalore developers no end, because they're on Indian Standard Time [04:28] lol [04:28] great fun [04:29] and Lotus goes out on a limb and uses GDT for ... greenwich dst time? greenwich daylight time? [04:31] and of course, being a pedant, I really, really don't like getting meeting invitations for a timezone that doesn't exist [04:34] it's a shame greenland doesn't use GDT, else I'd have a perfectly shaun excuse to show up 3 hours late for meetings [04:34] lol [04:34] German International Time [04:37] anyway. there's a whole lot about timezones that irks me :) [04:38] eg, I think they should be centered on their zero mark, not with one edge on the zero mark [04:38] to be fair, you usually find something irking in most everything :-p [04:38] 5am will do that to anyone :) [04:38] I don't get the specific ocean islands' timezone divisions - straight lines? not so much. [04:39] that's usually to make trade easier [04:39] like one island? group? hopped from one side of the international date line to the other, because they trade almost exclusively with the other. so not having spare days everywhere was a huge boost [04:40] "sorry, office is closed, it's saturday here" [04:41] maybe times should be "atomic + longitude" rather than zoned [04:41] so you know that 123+8 is close to 123+9 [04:42] you don't think being 4 minutes behind london would bug you? [04:42] you'd still have a split at 360degrees but you know that 123+360 is close to 124+1 [04:43] the 10 o'clock news would be ruined :/ [04:43] lol [04:43] america seems to cope with that [04:43] just say "at news at 123+0" [04:43] kinda, but still on round numbers [04:43] that way you know to adjust by your own position [04:44] would make mental arithmatic be required but they're supposed to teach that in school [04:44] and an overly peverse knowledge of geography when you want to coordinate something with someone in another town [04:45] nah, phones have gps - just ask siri what your offset it [04:45] is* [04:46] wouldn't work here, I jumped on the beta train a little too early, and seem to suffer from the South Atlantic Ocean bug [04:46] \o/ [04:46] that sounds fun [04:47] I love that your bike ride burned a LOT of calories [04:47] some things which are meant to default to "the last known position" when I don't have a good gps signal, default to 0,0 instead [04:47] you should share your route online [04:47] "kayak to kyoto" [04:47] nah, it seems to use my pulse for calories. it's just the distance that can be nearly 100km out [04:48] I seem to get a 70,000km detour every time I go around the docks [04:48] meh [04:49] we get diversions all the time [04:49] (which, ironically, is a shortcut) [04:49] it's actually the weather that bugs me with it though. the cycling thing is just funny [04:51] anyway. where do I file a bug report to get a timezone moved east by 7.5 degrees? [04:51] erm [04:52] try alt.time.zones [04:52] (does anyone use usenet for talking these days?) [04:53] I figure usenet is purely binary hosting [04:54] it's probably safer to assume that. the people that do still use it properly are kinda weird [04:54] so, here's my plan [04:54] instead of me being >30 minutes behind solar time [04:55] GMT should be ±7.5 degrees of zero [04:55] so no-one in it is more than 30 minutes from solar [04:55] and we can make a new timezone west of it for ireland and portugal to live in [04:56] it'd also make gmt/utc fit france better, so they can quit pretending that adding 1 to a train timetable is difficult [05:00] CET does properly boggle my mind. it's geographically centered close to vienna. so spain using it means they're over an hour off solar time [05:02] if they just make it 15±7.5, central european time would actually cover central europe. instead of just being a crutch for anyone who needed an excuse for not being able to run their trains on time [05:16] I might upgrade something to ubuntu 15.10 soon, and then break it. That way I can go into #ubuntu and ask for someone to "fix my wily" [05:17] :( [05:18] surely you'd properly ask in +1 ? [05:18] good point [05:18] I forgot about that [05:19] then you'd have the problem where it's likely difficult to come up with a wily joke they haven't heard yet [05:19] lol [05:20] how about a "shared wily which doesn't cope with all the people using it" [05:20] or maybe that should be "abusing" [05:21] that's awkward. I can only imagine you hovering the mouse over the "Affects me" link with a forveralone.gif face [05:21] http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/26/autos-selfdriving-nearmiss-idINL1N0ZB2UY20150626 [05:22] it's a shame they didn't actually collide. it'd be interesting to see them have to find one at fault [05:24] sounds like delphi are just blowing their trumpet to say "look at how good our car was at not hitting the dangerous google one" [05:25] no kidding [05:40] mornin peeps [05:41] interesting. maybe my bsods are caused by shadow copies [05:41] I just noticed this bsod was immediately preceeded by my usb3 drive firing up to accept a copy (that's all the drive is used for) [05:41] * diddledan unplugs it to see how things go [05:41] allo knightwise [05:42] ello;] [05:42] tv time..new series of graceland started [05:43] is that about michael jackson?> [05:44] no:P [05:44] or was graceland elvis? [05:44] I forget [05:52] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2393813/ [06:56] gibraltar really is an odd one at times [06:56] 'New iPhones from Gibtelecom [06:56] Gibtelecom today announced it will offer iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus, the biggest advancements in iPhone history, beginning from Friday 26th June ' [06:56] only been out since september..how exciting [06:56] there'll be a new one in a month or two [06:57] pop to uk or spain and get it when its launched [06:57] or wait 11months? [07:03] eh? didn't google get out of the project hosting service? https://cloud.google.com/tools/cloud-repositories/ [07:03] hm [07:04] looks like it's more tied with their paas tho [07:30] urgh [07:31] its so hot [07:31] im sweating loads lying dead still [07:31] cant have my windows open..car park behind [07:48] morning all [08:01] Morning all [08:02] I'm at the caravan already we'd had enough of yesterday so came here early :) [08:06] hello davmor2 :D [08:06] where are you at the moment? [08:07] MooDoo: Ebury Hill shrewsbury we have a seasonal pitch [08:07] ooo lovely, long weekend away? [08:10] MooDoo: I'm at work today so not really [08:14] davmor2: ah right, well i'm sure you'll have a lot of fun [08:18] MooDoo: it's more the relax you get here and go aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh [08:19] davmor2: sounds lovely, i'm off to bakewell again in a few weeks :D [08:19] MooDoo: nice :) [08:19] davmor2: but at the moment, i'm copying data back to my ubuntu storage server 400gb takes for ever :D [08:28] MooDoo: over the ether? [08:28] PAYDAY! [08:31] \o/ payday [08:31] popey: I wonder if I'll magic up an mx4 invite today? [08:32] diddledan: no [08:33] davmor2: correct [08:33] davmor2: just had my three tries [08:34] diddledan: i converted my storage server from debian back to ubuntu, just copying data back from my nas [08:35] how come "storage server" doesn't count as nas? [08:35] diddledan: your right, i'm copying data from my NAS device to my 1u server :D [08:36] oh you know what i mean :D === alan_g is now known as alan_g|afk [08:40] Good morning peeps :) [08:40] intrbiz: have I returned your serial cable or have I lost my marbles? [08:40] marbles. definitely the marbles [08:42] interesting. sophos are going for an IPO? [08:43] (Rory Cellan-Jones tweeted about it) [08:46] Right, so i have put a completely different disk in my desktop and it's giving me io errors again. [08:46] I suspect the motherboard is phut now. [08:46] After a lot of wasted time faffing about with disks [08:47] non faffing if you got your data back :D [08:50] morning boys and girls. [08:50] the data was never gone [08:50] I have backups [08:50] the faffing was swapping disks about to get it to boot and be usable [08:50] popey: might be a wonkywire? [08:50] now I boot it and it throws io errors [08:50] tried multiple wires [08:51] bah [08:51] will rip all the wires out and try one by one though, to be sure === alan_g|afk is now known as alan_g [09:00] stupid computers [09:01] i must admit i was getting really fedup with centos on my server last night, I reformatted and put ubuntu on it lol [09:02] * TwistedLucidity offers the use of a large axe [09:02] * TwistedLucidity makes a note to return neighbour's large axe [09:03] * popey adds one to the "moodoo switches distro" counter [09:03] I like when you offer to loan your neighbour something and they say "oh that's mine" [09:03] ".. I wondered where that had gone" [09:05] similar and actual occurance - one xmas my mum gave my brother a nice wooly jumper. it was already his prior to gifting. he'd given it to mum for her to repair. the repair hadn't been done. [09:06] MooDoo: not fedora? :o [09:06] I'm running CentOS on my cloud server and it's damn spiffy [09:10] http://paste.ubuntu.com/11777629/ hmmm [09:10] check out that seek error rate [09:11] yowzers [09:12] * popey runs a smart test [09:18] SuperMatt: nope not this time [09:18] diddledan: LOL! The delay in gettig the axe back is because I haven't had a chance to sharpen it yet. [09:19] TwistedLucidity: he'll cut himself and comment that he didn't recall it being that sharp before [09:19] SuperMatt: fedora/centos have all the same issues, it's just a pain in the neck to get bonding working where as in ubuntu it's a 5 second job [09:20] * diddledan gets a whip out to help MooDoo [09:21] http://www.revk.uk/2015/06/do-they-not-teach-decimal-numbers-in.html?showComment=1435310297269#c7129612416781945849 [09:21] funny me is funny [09:22] i just noticed something, with the QI charger on my nexus 4, hits 100% screen off, stops charging, doesnt keep it topped up or anything, seems odd behaviour. [09:22] brobostigon: you need to keep it awake to charge the sucker? [09:23] diddledan: seems so, keeping it awake drain battery. so its defeatest, [09:23] it defeats the point* [09:24] Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Chocolate Pudding Day! 😃 [09:24] * Laney gets paid a suspicious amount [09:24] I think the student loan repayments have stopped already [09:27] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQxLM2u-QY4 [09:29] welp, that disk looks dead http://paste.ubuntu.com/11777674/ [09:29] :-( [09:37] grenoble currently in the news over an attack. why must everything like this be "suspected islamist"?! [09:38] err. https://twitter.com/andysc/status/614357792271507456/photo/1 [09:43] * bashrc_ is probably a "suspected computationalist" [09:47] bashrc_: they're the worst! [09:48] i"m a radical cross-platformist [09:50] I guess I'm only partly cross platform. I don't do Apple or Windows [09:51] I do have to admit i don't have any IOS devices inthe house [09:51] sadly, I'm not radical enough to use the Hurd yet [09:51] just did a podcast episode on the surface pro 3 [09:52] knightwise: is it out? [09:52] 3 , not the 4 [09:53] knightwise: no I mean the podcast episode [09:53] yep , just hit the feed [09:53] * diddledan fires up itunes [10:04] :) [10:04] shoudl be in de feed now [10:06] teehee http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/06/26/queen-guard-_n_7669556.html?1435312587 [10:13] STEP BACK FROM THE QUEENS GUARD !:p [10:13] tourists sometimes forget these are trained elite soldiers [10:14] yeah - they think it's just an act [10:15] brilliant [10:16] lol @ painted yellow [10:16] * diddledan listening to knightwise podcast :-p [10:17] :) [10:31] "hey windows.. buttons!" [10:31] :-D [10:32] yeah that pen loop I couldn't get on with - it was too tight so I couldn't get the pen into it [10:33] and trying to do so I kept pulling it off the keyboard meaning the sticky got not sticky [10:51] stick figures of two girls dancing in business documents ftw! [10:55] knightwise: I'm liking the music this week [11:01] diddledan: thanx :) [11:01] Daniel Messer sources it and I think there will be a download link to the track in the shownotes [11:02] he's chosen some awesome tunes this season [11:04] having the podcast use different tunes each ep allows listeners (read: me :-p) to discover things we'd not have come across normally - I prefer that to a standard soundtrack that is repeated every episode (although saying that the ubuntu podcast that popey does has a very well-defined identity with their stock music choice) [11:07] yeah , i'm really happy with dans work. He finds the most amazing tunes [11:08] during the last storytime episode he even used one of his self composed tracks as a backing track [11:08] nice [11:09] that track was soo cool I have it (and other pieces of his work) on my phone right now [11:10] and its great to have Keith Murray as a producer [11:35] :) [11:38] he keeps me on my toes to produce in time and stuff [13:09] aaaah just sliced some cheese and spread some branston pickle on the pieces :> [13:09] nummy [13:10] post office has the replacement screen i ordered off ebay for one of these samsung Galaxy S3s :O [13:14] ha [13:15] you are gonna fix it yourself diddledan [13:15] daftykins: [13:15] knightwise: yep [13:15] childs play on this one really [13:15] the S3 has a horrible glass glued to digitiser glued to LCD glued to frame design, so i just got a full substitute for £48 [13:16] i'll transplant the internals like the motherboard and cameras, then it'll be set [13:25] so no breaking out the iron [13:25] don't even own one :> [13:26] nah, i have two S3s right here and the LCDs are cracked along with the glass in both, so it'd be a waste [13:27] his mum has one that can do with just the new glass on the front though, so he's going to try it i think [13:27] i think its criminal how some of these things are built [13:27] for some reason he owns the most obscure of tools, so he's got a heat gun to do the glue melting [13:28] yeah it is a bit :/ [13:28] the pursuit of ever thinner devices [13:28] true [13:29] trouble with this one is the S3 is 3 years old now, pretty close to being pointless to even fix [13:29] £48 for a device you can buy for £100 [13:55] daftykins: Same issue here, I was given 2 [13:55] About £80 for the screens, couldnt be bothered [13:55] hehe [13:55] do Irish people in IT make more than in UK? I see that the Irish have a 20% higher income on average http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita [13:55] just taken apart this one ready, looks like a lot of time to transfer the components really. but ah well [13:55] diplo: did you sell them? [13:55] Don't know ujjain but they pay a higher tax on their wages afaik [13:56] Nah, both sat in drawers at home [13:56] S3s as well, or? [13:56] ah really? my friend said tax was low there, maybe compared to NL, internet didn't show that low tax either [13:56] 2 x S3's and 1 x S2 with bottom buttons broke [13:56] just for corporations [13:56] Tax on wages was high I thought, tax on companies is low [13:56] diplo: post me the S3s? :> [13:56] I may be completely wrong [13:57] Didn't you just say you had 2 broke screen ones ? [13:58] GDP doesn't equate to wages [13:58] ah I thought that was it [13:59] GDP is the country's gross income [13:59] it stands for "Gross Domestic Product" [14:00] I figured most of it would've been caused by salaries though, but I guess other income like oil, going straight to the state counts [14:01] no, it's not related to wages at all [14:01] e.g. apple headquarters in ireland so a lot of european sales are counted against irish GDP [14:13] tax is the catch here. a cursory google will tell you the low band is 20% - it conveniently ignores that we have a second income tax called 'universal social charge' that adds up (an extra 7% for me) [14:14] like national insurance for us? [14:15] it's a "temporary" tax for the austerity crap [14:15] ah [14:17] we have the same 20/40 income tax split as the UK, but about 20 ends about 10k lower than in the UK (the split's about about 32k eur, and yours is about 32k gbp lol) [14:17] and then this extra tax to pay off germany, or however that worked [14:18] germany seems to be single-handedly bankrolling the whole of europe [14:20] it's just something to take into account when you're trying to compare the two. tech wages do look attractive here, because the sector still thrives on european immigrants [14:20] so it has to look good so that the take-home is still competitive enough to attract continentals to 300 days of rian [14:20] *rain [14:22] or more simply, having half my wage taxed at 47% doesn't make the numbers feel very attractive anymore [14:31] http://imgur.com/bAph37z high score on breaking things [15:03] what is the line called in a stock chart? [15:03] that shows the central pattern, 1 straight line [15:04] watching "mr robot" . cool Tv show [15:04] hmm, I just crashed my Excel, [15:05] popey: how'd the disk zero go? did those 14 sectors get remap and grow any? [15:05] it all went pear shaped [15:05] *remapped [15:05] swapped the disk and cable out [15:05] still getting errors [15:06] so I dunno, motherboard? [15:06] ouch, could be the SATA controllers going funky yeah [15:06] which is a bummer [15:06] not looking forward replacing the entire mobo [15:07] Stop, Hammer time! [15:07] indeed :( always a nasty job [15:07] i'm just poking in the tiny little PCB with the volume control buttons into this new phone front, haha [15:07] so ridiculously tiny :> [15:09] need to set aside lots of time to go through and figure out what might be up [15:09] also, should do a memtest [15:09] time to make a cuppa - deployment in progress [15:09] 10 minutes till the backup is complete then to delete then to replace [15:10] * bashrc_ deploys cuppa [15:11] Backing-up remote files... 636 / 4899 [===>----------------------] 12.98 % 9m55s [15:11] I like my scripts [15:11] script* [15:11] technically it's not a script tho. it's written in go so I compiled it [15:12] rewrite it in perl, tamper proof, even from you :-P [15:13] err.. no. [15:13] memtest \o/ [15:18] how have salaries developed in the UK? [15:18] minimal rise since 2000, right? [15:21] http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/files/2015/03/regjohnsonchart3.jpg - seems to show 90's great, since then minimal yeah [15:27] ujjain: depends on the company, some are less some are based on inflation and some are higher [15:27] ujjain: why the fascination with wages [15:28] I just wonder, I live in London and pay much rent, my mate lives in Dublin, we were talking about it. [15:28] Just wondering about things. I read in some countries marriage also has a lot of tax benefits. [15:30] ujjain: That's because you live in London! It is one of the worlds most expensive capitals anywhere will seem cheaper, but then you also have to remember that you get london wages too due to the additional expense of living there [15:31] well, I think 40k outside of London would be better than 50k in London. [15:31] but I'm happy here, for a few years will be fun. [15:33] ujjain: I know there are people who commute from Wolverhampton and Coventry to London every day, That's so they get the cheap rent and the better salary. I only know this because everytime I goto the office I see the same people on the platforms :) [15:34] My friend comes from Bristol on train on a monday and comes back Thursday night [15:34] Stays in hotels, works for him [15:34] alright if you're single perhaps? [15:34] but then you work 20% more... I count travel time as well [15:35] He's not single, just got married and about to start a family [15:35] seems a contractor life, but staying in hotels isn't a cheap option. [15:35] About a 1/4 of the staff do what he does [15:35] It's cheaper than renting a place down there ujjain [15:35] Well he worked it out to be [15:35] meh, might actually be similar pricing in London yeah :P [15:36] yeah, fair enough [15:36] He does search around a lot for the best deals though [15:36] Quite often stays in uni digs etc [15:36] Uni Halls* [15:37] sleeping with other people on the room? [15:39] https://www.dropbox.com/sh/222k7jecohmd13b/AABqemkMg4icFEf0Jzjbaj2Ta?dl=0 [15:39] well that was fun, all working perfectly [15:40] when I worked in Uxbridge we rented out a flat for 4 members of staff, they lived in it during the week [15:40] was way more financially sane than hotels [15:40] that's what the banks do over here a lot [15:44] popey: Nah just get a room each, his boss does the same [15:44] Quite often empty rooms, the uni rent them out fro more income [15:44] * popey fondly remembers before Y2K when you could expense lavish hotels every week :) [15:46] popey: that bug has a lot to answer for ;) [15:47] I remember when I had dreams of actually owning a house! [15:48] :) [15:48] I'm never moving [15:48] famous last words [15:48] Can't be doing with that. [15:49] I want a nicer house, but going to wait till I settle down again [15:50] popey, you think such a time could come back? or you think it was just part of the IT bubble? [15:51] yeah, those times will return imo [15:51] it goes in cycles, always does [15:52] we'll all move back to local computing again when the cloud bursts :) [15:52] dunno when that will be though [15:52] seems '90's was extreme though, and it's been down a long time, although stock has been up since [15:52] I don't know, local computing just gives the unthinking too much control over their data [15:52] docker / on-metal seems popopular [15:53] Only the initiated should be allowed to do anything locally [15:53] I like how you can do so much via API's and modules with the cloud, but it's very expensive. [15:54] SuperMatt: exactly my point, something new will come along [15:54] people will be empowered or motivated by something new I can't predict [15:54] ujjain: are you talking about cloud computing? because it's only expensive if you greatly over estimate your requirements [15:54] convergence maybe :) [15:54] SuperMatt, we pay 3 million a year [15:54] privacy.. war.. who knows [15:54] we are not very good at picking sizes, and pay on-demand for reserved, etc, but still [15:54] Maybe some startup pays people to compute at home or something [15:55] hmmm, convergence may do it, but it means relying on small form factor devices with little space [15:55]