[08:23] <hyper_ch> hmmm, can't get apache2 to install
[09:35] <lordievader> Good morning.
[13:03] <BluesKaj> Hi folks
[13:11] <hyper_ch> hi BluesKaj
[13:11] <hyper_ch> 15.10 running fine except I can't install wine :(
[13:11] <hyper_ch> and seems I have bad ram :(
[13:11] <BluesKaj> hi hyper_ch , bummer
[13:12] <hyper_ch> well, btrfs makes a lot more checks and I have issues with some files.... the smart people think it's du to bit flipping because of bad ram
[13:12] <hyper_ch> :(((
[13:13] <penguin42> oh if it's badram then just leave your machine at memtest86 overnight
[13:16] <hyper_ch> penguin42: you're here also?
[13:16] <hyper_ch> dang
[13:16] <hyper_ch> no, that was someone else in #btrfs
[13:16] <hyper_ch> you just had same nick colour :)
[13:16] <hyper_ch> that's what they sad :(
[13:16] <lordievader> penguin42: I was about to suggest memtest...
[13:17] <hyper_ch> ram should still have warranty... it's kingston and I think 2 years old
[13:18] <lordievader> hyper_ch: Well... test it ;)
[13:18] <hyper_ch> but I don't like to reboot my notebook into testmode for the night :)
[13:18] <hyper_ch> but I have no other choice
[13:19] <hyper_ch> but on a more serious node: wine doesn't want to get installed :(
[13:20] <lordievader> With what error?
[13:20] <hyper_ch> wrong/missing dependencies:  https://paste.debian.net/262603/
[13:21] <hyper_ch> finally time for One Piece and World Trigger :)
[13:21] <lordievader> You have a very broken package system.
[13:21] <lordievader> Do you use ppa's?
[13:22] <hyper_ch> only some
[13:22] <lordievader> Which ones?
[13:22] <hyper_ch> let's see... Kubuntu Beta Backport, Google, Steam, Wine (deactivated it but no luck either) Mozilla Daily, owncloud, Virtualbox
[13:23] <hyper_ch> and wily: main, restricted, universe, multiverse for security, updates, proposed and backports
[13:24] <lordievader> Ah, what is the output of 'apt-cache policy libqt5opengl5'?
[13:24] <hyper_ch> https://paste.debian.net/262607/
[13:25] <BluesKaj> proposed is dangerous
[13:25] <hyper_ch> well, I have now btrfs... I can snapshot before I do something dangerous
[13:25] <lordievader> Good spot. Read over that one. That is probably the cause of all this.
[13:25] <hyper_ch> (still need to read on how to restore a snap shot)
[13:26] <hyper_ch> is there a way to find out if/which packages were installed from a given repo?
[13:27] <lordievader> Err, you could script something.
[13:27] <BluesKaj> why fool with an unstable filesystem if you have to snapshot to make sure you can install packages safely, that's just a vicvious cycle
[13:28] <hyper_ch> get a list of installed packages. do that apt-cache policy thing and filter out where it was installed from
[13:28] <BluesKaj> bah
[13:28] <hyper_ch> shouldn't be too hard with some bash and awk
[13:28] <hyper_ch> I commented out the proposed but still same
[13:29] <lordievader> hyper_ch: Yeah.
[13:29] <lordievader> Commenting out a repo does not magically remove the packages installed from it.
[13:29] <hyper_ch> if there are packages installed from it
[13:29] <penguin42> I'm not sure if you have the info about where the package originally came from; the policy stuff I think tells you where it would come from
[13:29] <lordievader> Anyhow start investigating your broken packages first. They will probably give a clue as to where they come from.
[13:29] <lordievader> Or what repo might cause this.
[13:30] <hyper_ch> which broken packages?
[13:30] <lordievader> hyper_ch: The list you just gave me.
[13:30] <lordievader> First paste.
[13:30] <hyper_ch> yeah, that happens when I try to install wine
[13:30] <hyper_ch> but nothing is broken in the current state
[13:30] <lordievader> It does look like it. KDE libs have very little to do with Wine.
[13:31] <hyper_ch> apt-get -f install
[13:31] <hyper_ch> Paketlisten werden gelesen... Fertig
[13:31] <hyper_ch> Abhängigkeitsbaum wird aufgebaut.
[13:31] <hyper_ch> Statusinformationen werden eingelesen.... Fertig
[13:31] <hyper_ch> 0 aktualisiert, 0 neu installiert, 0 zu entfernen und 0 nicht aktualisiert.
[13:31] <hyper_ch> all is fine
[13:31] <lordievader> Obviously not all is fine.
[13:31] <hyper_ch> it just says wine depends on xxx but xxx (version= can't be installed
[13:32] <hyper_ch> so what is wrong then except wine not having satisfactory dependencies?
[13:32] <lordievader> Can you perform an update?
[13:32] <hyper_ch> yes
[13:32] <lordievader> apt-get dist-upgrade I mean, not apt-get update.
[13:33] <hyper_ch> apt-get dist-upgrade
[13:33] <hyper_ch> Paketlisten werden gelesen... Fertig
[13:33] <hyper_ch> Abhängigkeitsbaum wird aufgebaut.
[13:33] <hyper_ch> Statusinformationen werden eingelesen.... Fertig
[13:33] <hyper_ch> Paketaktualisierung (Upgrade) wird berechnet... Fertig
[13:33] <hyper_ch> 0 aktualisiert, 0 neu installiert, 0 zu entfernen und 0 nicht aktualisiert.
[13:33] <lordievader> Hmm. Where does your wine come from?
[13:34] <hyper_ch> I tried wine ppa
[13:34] <hyper_ch> and without it
[13:34] <hyper_ch> result is the same
[13:35] <lordievader> Where is it coming from now?
[13:35] <hyper_ch> how to figure that out?
[13:36] <lordievader> hyper_ch: apt-cache policy ofcourse ;)
[13:36] <hyper_ch> I don't believe in policies ;)
[13:37] <hyper_ch> apt-cache policy wine
[13:37] <hyper_ch> wine:
[13:37] <hyper_ch>   Installiert:           (keine)
[13:37] <hyper_ch>   Installationskandidat: 1:1.7.44-0ubuntu1
[13:37] <hyper_ch>   Versionstabelle:
[13:37] <hyper_ch>      1:1.7.44-0ubuntu1 0
[13:37] <hyper_ch>         500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-wine/ppa/ubuntu/ wily/main amd64 Packages
[13:37] <hyper_ch>      1:1.6.2-0ubuntu9 0
[13:37] <hyper_ch>         500 http://ch.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ wily/universe amd64 Packages
[13:37] <hyper_ch> weird, I did disable the wine ppa
[13:37] <hyper_ch> (actually it seems I didn't)
[13:39] <hyper_ch> ok, deactivated the PPA, same result still :)
[13:40] <lordievader> !paste | hyper_ch
[13:40] <lordievader> hyper_ch: Did you update your sources?
[13:41] <hyper_ch> I did
[13:41] <lordievader> Then the ppa is defined somewhere else too.
[13:41] <hyper_ch> apt-cache policy wine
[13:41] <hyper_ch> wine:
[13:41] <hyper_ch>   Installiert:           (keine)
[13:41] <hyper_ch>   Installationskandidat: 1:1.7.44-0ubuntu1
[13:41] <hyper_ch>   Versionstabelle:
[13:41] <hyper_ch>      1:1.7.44-0ubuntu1 0
[13:41] <hyper_ch>         500 http://ppa.launchpad.net/ubuntu-wine/ppa/ubuntu/ wily/main amd64 Packages
[13:41] <hyper_ch>      1:1.6.2-0ubuntu9 0
[13:41] <hyper_ch>         500 http://ch.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ wily/universe amd64 Packages
[13:41] <hyper_ch> I just told you
[13:41] <hyper_ch> I did deactivated it
[13:41] <hyper_ch> same result
[13:42] <penguin42> yeh but you may have some random packages already installed from it
[13:42] <hyper_ch> from what?
[13:42] <lordievader> hyper_ch: Please use a paste service next time.
[13:42] <hyper_ch> lordievader: even with this low traffic here?
[13:42] <lordievader> hyper_ch: Yes.
[13:43] <lordievader> hyper_ch: I'm trying to make the point that the ppa might be defined a second time elsewhere.
[13:43] <penguin42> hyper_ch: So you turn on a ppa, you instlal some packages some of which might come from the ppa and everything gets messy - you can try to use ppa-purge to cleanup
[13:43] <hyper_ch> lordievader: it is not
[13:43] <hyper_ch> penguin42: from the wine ppa nothing got installed
[13:43] <lordievader> hyper_ch: Then apt-cache should not show it.
[13:43] <hyper_ch> lordievader: apt-cache isn't shwoing it anymore
[13:43] <lordievader> Ah, can you install Wine now?
[13:43] <hyper_ch> no, same result
[13:44] <lordievader> Could you pastebin the error with the output of 'apt-cache policy wine'?
[13:44] <hyper_ch> https://paste.debian.net/262776/
[13:45] <lordievader> Actually make it 'apt-cache policy wine1.6'
[13:46] <hyper_ch> https://paste.debian.net/262778/
[13:47] <hyper_ch> found the problem
[13:47] <hyper_ch> wine wants binfmt-support >= 1.1.2
[13:47] <hyper_ch> and v. 2.1.5-1 is in the repo
[13:47] <hyper_ch> it seems it doesn't like the version jump to 2
[13:48] <hyper_ch> https://paste.debian.net/262780/
[13:49] <hyper_ch> https://paste.debian.net/262781/
[13:49] <lordievader> I think it is the font-config, try 'apt-get install --no-install-recommends wine
[13:49] <lordievader> '
[13:50] <hyper_ch> https://paste.debian.net/262782/
[13:50] <hyper_ch> no lucky
[13:50] <lordievader> Dpkg doesn't care about version jumps as long as 2.1.5 >= 1.1.2 is satisfied, dpkg doesn't care.
[13:50] <hyper_ch> https://paste.debian.net/262783/
[13:51] <hyper_ch> it complains about the i386 package but that bversion is fine
[13:51] <lordievader> It did remove the list though ;) apt-get install --no-install-recommends wine1.6-i386 (if you run 64bit: wine1.6-amd64)
[13:52] <hyper_ch>  wine1.6-amd64 : Hängt ab von: wine1.6:any (= 1:1.6.2-0ubuntu9)
[13:52] <hyper_ch> still complaining there
[13:52] <hyper_ch> http://paste.debian.net/262784/
[13:53] <lordievader> Ah it depends on both...
[13:53] <hyper_ch> but those versions are there
[13:54] <lordievader> Are they version 1.6.2-0ubuntu9?
[13:56] <hyper_ch> http://paste.debian.net/262785/
[13:56] <lordievader> I ment the wine1.6-i368 and wine1.6-amd64 packages ;)
[13:57] <hyper_ch> https://paste.debian.net/262786/
[13:57] <hyper_ch> https://paste.debian.net/262787/
[13:58] <lordievader> Odd stuff.
[13:58] <hyper_ch> told you so :)
[13:59] <hyper_ch> I'm good at odd stuff and breaking things
[13:59] <lordievader> You could try to install those packages manually with dpkg to see if you get a clearer error.
[14:01] <hyper_ch> hmmm, it's empty:  http://ch.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/wily/universe/binary-i386/
[14:01] <lordievader> Looks fine to me?
[14:01] <hyper_ch> shouldn't there be debs listed?
[14:02] <lordievader> No, they are here: http://ch.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/w/wine1.6/
[14:02] <hyper_ch> size 1kb... doesn't sound right IMHO
[14:03] <lordievader> It is a meta package, look at apt-cache show
[14:03] <hyper_ch> https://paste.debian.net/262790/
[14:03] <hyper_ch> looks like those meta packages are wrong... they still ask for wine 1.4
[14:04] <hyper_ch> and wine1.4 depends on wine 1.6?
[14:04] <lordievader> You are trying to install a meta package for wine1.4, of course it will ask for wine1.4.
[14:04] <hyper_ch> ok :)
[14:06] <hyper_ch> https://paste.debian.net/262793/
[14:07] <lordievader> hyper_ch: Run apt-get install -f
[14:08] <hyper_ch> https://paste.debian.net/262794/
[14:08] <lordievader> Err, purge the 1.4 and try to install (manually) the -i386 and -amd64 packages.
[14:10] <hyper_ch> https://paste.debian.net/262795/
[14:11] <hyper_ch> http://ch.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/pool/universe/b/binfmt-support/  --> empty
[14:11] <lordievader> hyper_ch: Purge with dpkg not apt.
[14:11] <hyper_ch> binfmt is in main
[14:12] <hyper_ch> what do you mean purge with dpkg?
[14:12] <lordievader> dpkg -P
[14:13] <hyper_ch> https://paste.debian.net/262796/
[14:16] <lordievader> Are both -i386 and -amd64 installed* ?
[14:16] <hyper_ch> how to find out?
[14:16] <lordievader> I am asking you, did you try to install both with dpkg?
[14:16] <hyper_ch> yes, it's in the pastebin
[14:17] <lordievader> In the pastebin was only -i386.
[14:17] <hyper_ch> dpkg -i wine1.6_1.6.2-0ubuntu9_amd64.deb wine1.6_1.6.2-0ubuntu9_i386.deb
[14:17] <hyper_ch> amd64 and i386
[14:17] <lordievader> Ok, run apt-get install -f again.
[14:18] <hyper_ch> https://paste.debian.net/262807/
[14:19] <lordievader> Hmm, well that didn't work. Purge the three packages with dpkg -P.
[14:20] <hyper_ch> it seems the amd/386 packages weren't installed properly
[14:20] <hyper_ch> or at all
[14:21] <lordievader> None of them ;)
[14:21] <hyper_ch> only could purge wine1.6
[14:21] <lordievader> Meh, can you still upgrade your machine and install other packages (not wine related packages)?
[14:22] <hyper_ch> installing build-essential seems to work fine
[14:23] <lordievader> Allright, good. I have no idea how to fix this. From what I gather it depends on something it is quite capable of installing but still refuses to do so.
[14:23] <hyper_ch> maybe that's the reason why it's still alpha ;)
[14:23] <hyper_ch> the versions seems fine imho
[14:24] <lordievader> This is more likely a packaging issue.
[15:23] <hyper_ch> BluesKaj: you're using kubuntu 15.10 right?
[15:24] <BluesKaj> yes, but I don't have any ppas active in my sources , so a comparison isn't valid
[15:24] <hyper_ch> BluesKaj: is there an unread mail widget? I can't find any for kontact
[15:25] <BluesKaj> i don't use kmail or kontact , not since kde3
[15:25] <hyper_ch> I see
[15:26] <BluesKaj> I have no need for them , I'm a home user
[15:27] <penguin42> oh, hang on what's the name of the thing in kde these days - I have tried to use it
[15:28] <BluesKaj> akonadi?
[15:28] <penguin42> hyper_ch: install kdepim and set up akonadi and it does calendar stuff
[15:28] <penguin42> BluesKaj: Yeh
[15:28] <hyper_ch> penguin42: I'm using kontact
[15:29] <hyper_ch> but I'm looking for an unread mail systray notification
[15:29] <BluesKaj> it's a server for kmail and PIM, mostly need for users on the job who have to keep a 10K plus email database
[15:29] <BluesKaj> needed
[15:30] <penguin42> BluesKaj: Well I use mutt for that :-)
[15:32] <BluesKaj> yeah, I just thunderbird, but my eamil clients are all webmail anyway , my former ISPsold it's email serveice to hotmail so i dropped them
[15:36] <BluesKaj> my current ISP has an email service app, but it doesn't work with thunderbird, so i just use their webmail service for any correspondence they have for their cuatomers...kmail in KDE3 was a great email client, I really missed it ...tried mutt but it didn't work well for me
[15:36] <BluesKaj> customers,,damn spell check isn't woking either
[15:36]  * penguin42 doesn't use his ISPs mail
[15:39] <BluesKaj> it's becoming frustrating tryingto  help 15.04 users whose desktops are crashing due to the wrong gpu drivers being loaded from the kernel /dkms
[15:40] <penguin42> BluesKaj: Can you explain that a bit more - which type of wrong ?
[15:42]  * lordievader is wondering the same
[15:42] <BluesKaj> penguin42, the drivers from a previous install if the net install method is used, according to one dev and for nvidia the nouveau driver isn't working with some nvidia gpus
[15:43] <lordievader> You mean /lib/modules wasn't nuked?
[15:44]  * penguin42 doesn't see how something from a previous install could survive without a much bigger mess - unless this is an upgrade where it's keeping the old version?
[15:44] <BluesKaj> seems so , users have to clear the cache in some cases aswell
[15:44] <penguin42> driver modules on an upgrade wouldn't be a big surprise
[15:44] <lordievader> Still seems very unlikely.
[15:44] <BluesKaj> the ones who know how to
[15:44] <TJ-> /lib/modules/ shouldn't be 'nuked'
[15:45] <TJ-> and DKMS modules are built on a per-kernel-version basis when the kernel is installed
[15:45] <lordievader> Agreed, but for a new install.
[15:45] <TJ-> maybe the installed DKMS *sources* for the installed drivers are being built against the new kernel, and are failing due to changes in the kernel interfaces. I often have to fix that for nvidia, for example
[15:46] <lordievader> BluesKaj: Could ^ be the problem?
[15:46] <penguin42> that would only be for an upgrade though, not a fresh install
[15:46] <penguin42> closed driver problems after an upgrade aren't that unusual - I'd always suggest remove and reinstall
[15:46] <BluesKaj> TJ-, well nvidia seems to have the most problems with the desktop crashing after login from sddm
[15:46] <penguin42> (for the closed drivers)
[15:47] <TJ-> For example, with Nvidia drivers specifically, they sometimes remove support for some older GPUs from the 'current' package version and move it to the 'legacy' package version... which *does* cause lots of issues
[15:47] <penguin42> oh, yeh that's fun
[15:47] <penguin42> TJ-: Ah I guess if people to an upgrade it will upgrade the current package to the latest version and be broken rather than realising it needs to install the legacy?
[15:48] <TJ-> When we do a major kernel version change that can change the interfaces the nvidia kernel-wedge expects, as well. I found one of those in Linux v4.2 merge window yesterday - not even sure how Nvidia will work around it:
[15:48] <TJ-> https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/849487/geforce-drivers/linux-v4-2-uses-gpl-only-symbol-flush_workqueue-/
[15:49] <penguin42> yeh should keep them busy
[15:49] <TJ-> penguin42: Yes, that is always a possibility since our upgrader policy is to replace with the same identical package (which for nvidia/fglxr could mean introducing a closed-source driver that no longer supports the PCI IDs of the GPU)
[15:50] <penguin42> BluesKaj: If people have nouveau not working on particular cards they need to be reported; I'm guessing most of the cases are fairly simple fixes
[15:50] <TJ-> Most nouveau issues tend to be caused by artifacts left-over from an nvidia installation :)
[15:50] <penguin42> nod
[15:51] <BluesKaj> penguin42, yes , i hope so
[15:51] <penguin42> TJ-: Will the legacy and current driver packages install at the same time?
[15:51] <TJ-> penguin42: Yes
[15:52] <penguin42> TJ-: Would it be possible to make an update hook that detected if they had the 'current' driver installed, and if so installed the legacy package as well?
[15:52] <TJ-> penguin42: For example I have to use the legacy nvidia 340 package because Nvidia dropped support for the NVS420 from the later drivers
[15:53] <TJ-> penguin42: Definitely - all it needs is a debian preinst hook that checks the existing GPU(s) PCI ID and checks which package is required to drive that
[15:54] <penguin42> TJ-: Sounds like a good idea then - people not getting X after upgrade isn't nice for the less capable users
[15:54] <TJ-> My laptop has a GeForce  8600M plus an external NVS420 (2 GPUs) and that's the last driver to support both. If I allowed the installer to work automatically it'd install the 'current' driver since that does still support one of the GPUs... but then breaks my entire setup
[15:55] <TJ-> I have the NVS420 in a ViDock connected via the ExpressCard PCIe interface
[15:56] <penguin42> ah you don't make it easy for yourself then :-)
[15:56] <robin-hero> Hi all!
[15:56] <TJ-> I don't have any issues... I keep the system stable and it 'just works'
[15:57] <penguin42> TJ-: What's a ViDock ?
[15:57] <robin-hero> I have a problem with ubuntu-desktop-next
[15:57] <TJ-> http://www.villageinstruments.com/tiki-index.php?page=ViDock
[15:57] <BluesKaj> tlyu, yes the 8000  series nvidia driver seems to require the 340 driver, the 346 works , but it's unstable
[15:58] <BluesKaj> TJ-, ^
[15:58] <TJ-> but doesn't like the NVS420
[15:58] <penguin42> TJ-: Oh the price on those aren't too bad - I had seen another vendors that did an external PCIe chassis and it was pricey
[15:58] <TJ-> penguin42: I can highly recommend it, I've been very impressed.
[15:59] <robin-hero> Something is weird with the fonts: http://i.imgur.com/EJr9LLM.jpg
[15:59] <robin-hero> any idea?
[15:59] <TJ-> The only time I had problems was when the PSU for it was overheating because I had it on a parcel shelf right under the workbench
[15:59] <penguin42> TJ-: Yeh well, if you're going to be cruel to it
[16:01] <TJ-> penguin42: hehehe yeah... but I'm kind to the laptop. I got a Zalman laptop cooler, cracked it out of its case, and mounted it flush in the surface of my desk so the laptop sits on top of it flat on the desk :)
[16:01] <TJ-> ha! I thought this was #ubuntu-discuss!
[16:01] <penguin42> :-)
[16:06] <robin-hero> How can I enable -proposed channel for Ubuntu Desktop Next
[16:07] <robin-hero> ?
[16:08] <TJ-> robin-hero: Do you mean 15.10 ?
[16:08] <robin-hero> yes, but with unity8
[16:11] <TJ-> robin-hero: I'm not sure it is useful. I was reading on the -devel mail list recently and one of the archive admins pointed out that although its there its only used for the upload queue and all packages go straight into the main release archive as soon as they are published... that changes after Release of course, when the main archive is frozen and we use -updates and -proposed
[18:22] <robin-hero> Hey all! Is somebody can help me? How can I install Chromium (or Firefox) on Unity8 (Ubuntu Desktop Next 15.10)?
[18:22] <robin-hero> Because I can't use the default browser, it doesn't work