[12:18] <BluesKaj> Hey folks
[12:22] <hyper_ch> hi BluesKaj
[12:22] <BluesKaj> hey hyper_ch
[12:22] <hyper_ch> slowly I get nixos to a usable state:  https://github.com/sjau/nixos/blob/master/configuration.nix
[12:24] <hyper_ch> and it's way too hot to fiddle any more with it now
[12:26] <hyper_ch> still need to look at stuff like acpi and also setup default cron jobs and stuff
[12:26] <hyper_ch> you can do that directly in the config
[12:28] <BluesKaj> wonder how well it does networking, like VPN tunneling etc
[12:29]  * penguin42 tries to understand what it means about it's config
[12:30] <hyper_ch> BluesKaj: well, I set it to use network manager
[12:30] <hyper_ch> but all system wide configuration you should be able to set in the config
[12:30] <hyper_ch> e.g. you could directly provide openvpn profiles and stuff
[12:31] <hyper_ch> penguin42: that's my configuration.nix file for NixOS
[12:31] <hyper_ch> BluesKaj: at the top I have the link to the man page options:  https://nixos.org/nixos/manual/ch-options.html
[12:31] <hyper_ch> it's a very huge list
[12:32] <hyper_ch> and for package search, nox is nice
[12:32] <penguin42> hyper_ch: Hmm, not that different to what you get in kickstarter etc
[12:32] <penguin42> sorry, kickstart files
[12:33] <hyper_ch> penguin42: I don't know what kickstart files are
[12:33] <penguin42> hyper_ch: They're what you feed to RHEL/Fedora installers (I think there's a version for Ubuntu) to preconfigure a system
[12:34] <hyper_ch> penguin42: well, here you setup the whole system using a configuration.nix file (or multiple ones that are included)
[12:34] <penguin42> hyper_ch: Not as declarative though; https://academy.redhat.com/instructor/guide/instructorguide_ks.html
[12:34] <hyper_ch> you start live cd, do the partitioning, do hardware detection
[12:34] <hyper_ch> and then you just provide the configuration.nix and let it do all the rest
[12:34] <hyper_ch> penguin42: here's a huge list of options you can set.... https://nixos.org/nixos/manual/ch-options.html
[12:35] <hyper_ch> I'll try to switch over from kdm to lightdm some time...
[12:36] <penguin42> hyper_ch: Yep, most distros have a way of doing that, although that looks a bit more organised; here's an example of an ubuntu preseed file   https://sfxpt.wordpress.com/2013/06/09/get-the-debianubuntu-ready-and-customized-the-way-you-like-in-10-minutes/
[12:36] <hyper_ch> penguin42: I've used preseed file for my debian servers where I install ispconfig
[12:36] <hyper_ch> https://github.com/sjau/perfectDebian
[12:37] <penguin42> right
[12:37] <hyper_ch> BluesKaj: btw, do you do a lot of work with pdfs? combining pages, exracting etc?
[12:38] <hyper_ch> I like ispconfig on my servers and horde :)
[12:38] <BluesKaj> hyper_ch, no , merely a home user , no servers etc
[12:39] <hyper_ch> BluesKaj: well, since I submit brief electronically I have to work with pdfs a lot... so I wrote myself some action menu scripts for dolphin... just thought if you have to handle pdfs a lot you would find them useful https://github.com/sjau/pdfForts
[12:39] <BluesKaj> well looking at the work involved with the NixOS install. It looks rather challenging for my knowledge base :-)
[12:40] <hyper_ch> BluesKaj: well, all I did was (1) copying from other configuration.nix (2) bugging a friend who uses nixOS (3) bugging people in #nixos and (4) read manual
[12:40] <hyper_ch> (in order of how much I did)
[12:41] <hyper_ch> BluesKaj: all you need it a proper configuration.nix file ;)
[12:41] <BluesKaj> how long until someone reminds us that this is supposed to be an ubuntu chat
[12:42] <hyper_ch> channel topic doesn't say it's ubuntu+1 only
[12:43] <hyper_ch> one last thing I need to test on nixos is getting my smartcard to sign pdfs.... I think I have all I need for it but haven't tested so far
[12:44] <hyper_ch> btw, I reported the non-installable-wine issue as well as my install troubles.... network card not getting a connection and ssd not detected during install
[12:50] <hyper_ch> besides those issues, most seems to work well....
[12:59] <BluesKaj> I don't see any advantages to a labourious installation procedure for an OS, that's why I don't have gentoo. Successfully installed Arch once but ai wasn't impressed with it at all , anticlimactic. Just because Nix usus a novel package management system doesn't mean it has any advantages over more easily installed OSs.
[12:59] <hyper_ch> well, it's good to know other things also
[13:00] <hyper_ch> who knows how long kubuntu will continue to exist - especially regarding the riddell situation
[13:01] <hyper_ch> also I like how easy it is to re-setup and you can hardly break once it's running...
[13:01] <BluesKaj> we'll see , there are other kubuntu/kde based OSs, that's why I'm exploring debian again
[13:01] <hyper_ch> although, with the move to sappy (or what's that new package manager called), ubuntu will also have atomic upgrades
[13:02] <BluesKaj> snappy
[13:02] <hyper_ch> I was close to it
[13:03] <TJ-> hyper_ch: If you want to seed an install for identical config every time just use a pre-seed file, that's what everyone else does!
[13:08] <hyper_ch> :)
[13:11] <hyper_ch> TJ-: another advantage of the atomicity is that you can have totally different profiles... want to test something out make a new rebuild... if it doesn't work... switch back
[13:12] <hyper_ch> the last week I've worked with it a bit and it looks really nice
[13:12] <hyper_ch> but I'm way too noob to actually use it for real this far ;)
[13:15] <TJ-> I use LXC for that
[13:17] <hyper_ch> after having used *buntu for the last 9 years almost exlusively as desktop it's time to check what else is out there ;)
[13:17] <hyper_ch> good old dapper drake :(
[13:34] <TJ-> hyper_ch: You should really be in #ubuntu-20 :D
[13:40] <hyper_ch> dapper drake was really nice
[14:17] <hyper_ch> wb Bluefoxicy
[14:17] <hyper_ch> wb BluesKaj
[14:17] <hyper_ch> don't you hate it when you type the first three letters of a nick and the tab-completion fails?
[14:17] <BluesKaj> was checking my kubuntu 15.10 upgrades
[14:19] <BluesKaj> too many blue ppl in here, but I have seniority, my nick's been registered since 2006 I believe :-)
[14:19] <hyper_ch> only two blue people :)
[14:19] <hyper_ch> btw, I had to alter my password on freenode a little while ago
[14:19] <hyper_ch> I registered... probably mid 2006 with my dapper drake install
[14:20] <hyper_ch> and chose a short password... well, reasonably long for the time back then
[14:20] <hyper_ch> and when I wanted to have a cloak for my host the friendly staffer told my that I need to have a longer password
[14:21] <hyper_ch> whois doesn't show when I registered :(
[14:23] <hyper_ch> ha, nickserver info helps - [16:22] [Notice] -NickServ- Registered : Nov 16 19:12:52 2006 (8y 33w 1d ago)
[14:36] <penguin42> Registered : May 26 22:54:58 2001 (14y 6w 0d ago) :-)
[14:36] <hyper_ch> 2001... there was a movie about that year :)
[14:38] <lordievader> An awesome movie :D
[14:38] <lordievader> Also about 2010 ;)
[14:38] <hyper_ch> they even had tablets in that movie
[14:38] <hyper_ch> so way before apple ahd them ;)
[14:39] <hyper_ch> damn I was wrong... not hte password was the issue with the cloak but that I didn't set an email back then
[14:40]  * penguin42 prefers 2010 to 2001,  2001 has too much grunting and trippy bits
[14:41]  * lordievader prefers the book over the film
[14:41] <hyper_ch> they made a book out of the film? oO
[14:43] <hyper_ch> I've seen 2010 but I can't really remember it
[14:43] <hyper_ch> while I remember 2001 rather well
[14:45] <lordievader> The book and the film 2001 were made at the same time.
[14:45] <lordievader> There are differences though, in the book they go to Saturn, in the film only to Jupiter.
[14:45] <penguin42> wasn't that because the director decided it would be too hard to do a good Saturn?
[14:46] <lordievader> That I do not know.
[14:46] <penguin42> so which moon were the other civilisation on?
[14:49] <lordievader> What do you mean?
[14:52] <penguin42> well, in 2010 wasn't the civilisation on Europe ?
[14:52] <penguin42> oops
[14:52] <penguin42> Europa!
[14:52] <lordievader> Ah, I've only read the book of 2001. 2010 and the other one, 2030?, are still on my list.
[14:53] <lordievader> But the monolith was on the Europ moon of Saturn in the book.
[14:53] <hyper_ch> there's a third book?
[14:54] <lordievader> Ah it was 2061: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2061:_Odyssey_Three
[14:54] <penguin42> lordievader: But Europa is a moon of Jupiter
[14:54] <lordievader> There is even a third:
[14:54] <lordievader> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3001:_The_Final_Odyssey
[14:54] <lordievader> Am I mixing things up?
[14:54] <penguin42> (Heck Saturn has a lot of moons - who knew of Jarnsaxa or Hyrrokkin)
[14:55] <lordievader> I am mixing things up, it was Iapetus.
[14:57] <penguin42> hmm, that's very deathstar
[14:58]  * lordievader is off
[16:28]  * penguin42 is surprised his new Wily install is on 3.19
[16:29] <penguin42> yet his 15.04 install is on 4.0.0
[16:33] <hyper_ch> you're doing it wrong
[16:33] <penguin42> well, that is what I'm thinking
[16:33] <hyper_ch> Linux subi 3.19.0-22-generic #22-Ubuntu SMP Tue Jun 16 17:15:15 UTC 2015 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
[16:35] <hyper_ch> also packages.ubuntu.com shows 3.19 for vivid/updates
[16:37] <penguin42> hmm it's possible I installed the 4.0 fo rtesting at some point
[16:39] <penguin42> but still, wily being still on 3.19 is a bit slow
[16:40] <Daekdroom> The kernel is probably still being tested before merging
[17:17] <xhoch3> hello, I am researching for an article about click packages (in a series for new packaging formats under linux systems). Is there a place I can get the most up-to-date documentation about click packages as a start?
[17:20] <hyper_ch> what are click packages?
[17:21] <xhoch3> the new packaging format of Ubuntu used on the Ubuntu Phone, that will come to the desktop, too, with 16.04
[17:21] <popey> uh, no
[17:21] <popey> thats not accurate
[17:22] <xhoch3> very hot stuff, I offered a magazine to do some research and write an article about it
[17:22] <xhoch3> ok, then correct me, I need all info I can get
[17:22] <popey> uh, thats your job :)
[17:22] <popey> I'm not getting paid to write your article :)
[17:22] <xhoch3> well, my job is squeezing that info out of you :D
[17:22] <popey> ok, in brief...
[17:22] <popey> click is used on the phone/tablet right now.
[17:23]  * penguin42 sees xhoch3 in the guise of Michael Palin in Brazil
[17:23] <popey> In the future that will be phased out in favour of snappy packages
[17:23] <popey> by 16.04 there will be a build of Ubuntu which is based on snappy packages
[17:23] <popey> but it doesn't replace the traditional debian based image
[17:23] <popey> so by 16.04 you'll likely see multiple images, one snappy based, one deb based
[17:24] <popey> so those users who are using debian based installs can carry on doing that on an LTS release
[17:24] <popey> those who want to play with snappy can do that too
[17:24] <popey> clear?
[17:25] <xhoch3> not quite, I think I have to read more about snappy
[17:25] <xhoch3> what I didn't know was that click will be phased out
[17:25] <xhoch3> I heard about Ubuntu Next, which is based on click (or snappy, as you say)
[17:26] <popey> yeah, will take a while, but we'll transition from click to snap
[17:26] <xhoch3> is there detailed technical reference about snap?
[17:27] <xhoch3> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/tutorials/build-snaps/
[17:27] <popey> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/ seen that?
[17:27] <popey> snappy is evolving, quickly.
[17:27] <xhoch3> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/guides/packaging-format-apps/
[17:28] <TJ-> xhoch3: The overview (narrative) documentation is very poor. This may help a bit: http://askubuntu.com/questions/583076/difference-between-snappy-and-click
[17:28] <xhoch3> ok thanks, yes, I think users might be intered in how a package is build up, what are the advantages (and why), which files install where etc. etc.
[17:29] <xhoch3> maybe even a short tutorial how to package an app
[17:30] <xhoch3> but as I see, click and snap share the core ideas
[17:30] <popey> they're certainly similar
[17:30] <popey> snappy is an evolution on from clck
[17:30] <popey> *click
[17:30]  * penguin42 wonders if we get crackle and pop after those
[17:33] <popey> :)
[17:33] <popey> It's grrrrreat
[17:34] <penguin42> no, no, that's the other one
[17:44] <xhoch3> popey, I think I will switch to the snappy version as fast as possible, will it be as reliable as the traditional image?
[17:44] <xhoch3> fwiu, I would need to do a complete reinstall then
[17:48] <popey> I don't think there is a snappy desktop image yet
[17:48] <popey> I know it's being worked on by kevin gunn
[17:55] <xhoch3> thanks, I dropped him a mail