[07:54] <Kilos> morning peeps
[08:03]  * mazal peeks in
[08:03] <mazal> Morning everyone
[08:06] <Kilos> hi mazal  
[08:06] <mazal> Gaanit oom ?
[08:06] <Kilos> ek kyk die klein ding http://mybroadband.co.za/news/hardware/131194-the-r110-computer-that-could-change-the-world.html
[08:06] <Kilos> goed dankie en self
[08:07] <mazal> Goed dankie , raasie baie nie
[08:08] <mazal> Wag om te gaan breakfast saam vriende
[08:10] <mazal> Bekyk bietjie wat's nuut in minecraft , maar ek moet dit seker nie hier se nie lol :)
[08:12] <Kilos> lol
[08:14] <mazal> Although , it is fully Ubuntu compatible so not too far off topic
[08:15] <Kilos> you not tutoring on the game here
[08:15] <mazal> I never dare say a word about it with the minetest guys around , you get tapped on the fingers very quickly :)
[08:16] <Kilos> hahaha
[08:16] <Kilos> you are talking to me
[08:16] <mazal> Don't understand it at all though
[08:16] <mazal> Is like the PS3 vs XBOX thing. If a person likes both , so what
[08:16] <Kilos> that channel was made so this channel wasnt all totally off topic
[08:18] <Kilos> also at first we chatted pages of minetest stuff here and when someone wanted to answer a query some hours later they had to scroll back too much
[08:19] <mazal> Time for that breakfast
[08:19] <mazal> Have a nice morning oom
[08:19] <Kilos> enjoy
[08:19] <mazal> See l8tr
[08:19] <Kilos> ty 
[08:20] <mazal> PC needs some rest after that huge update hehehe
[08:20] <mazal> bye :)
[08:20] <Kilos> lol
[08:20] <Kilos> bye
[08:20] <mazal> backup I mean *
[13:49] <Kilos> oh my , such a quiet day
[13:51] <magespawn> good afternoon
[13:51] <Kilos> hi magespawn  
[13:52] <Kilos> MaNI  you here?
[13:53] <Kilos> ohi superfly  
[13:56] <Kilos> hi Cryterion  
[15:03] <MaNI> Kilos, I wasn't but now I am
[15:03] <Kilos> haha
[15:04] <Kilos> i dont know when peeps havent got the afk/away function working
[15:04] <Kilos> so excuse me if you sometimes have to scroll back for miles
[15:05] <Kilos> stupid launchpad gives me a quota on how many peeps i can contact from there
[15:05] <Kilos> 2 emails and quota full for 23 hours
[15:06] <Kilos> grrr
[15:21] <MaNI> I should avoid reading the news :/
[15:21] <Kilos> why?
[15:21] <Kilos> you mean its all bad
[15:21] <MaNI> hehe, yeah now we are buying trains that are the wrong size
[15:22] <Kilos> lol
[15:37] <Kilos> w000t got ubuntu-nm to join our group
[15:37] <Kilos> only took 6 months
[15:50] <Kilos> inetpro  superfly  ^^
[15:50]  * Kilos dances a jig
[16:31] <mazal> NM is ?
[16:31] <mazal> Namibia ?
[16:31] <Kilos> yeah
[16:32] <mazal> Good work oom
[16:32] <Kilos> ty mazal  
[16:33] <Kilos> the only way i can get any feedback from lots of them is by joining them and their mailing lists and then sending my message across
[16:33] <Kilos> n boer maak n plan
[16:33] <Kilos> i think i have 4 left then i have the whole of africa
[16:34] <mazal> That's great work
[16:35] <Kilos> mainly thats because i dont want to join them on facebook
[18:09] <inetpro> hmm...
[18:09] <inetpro> good evening
[18:27] <inetpro> wb MaNI
[18:27] <MaNI> thanks
[18:27] <inetpro> well done oom Kilos
[18:28] <Kilos> ty inetpro  
[18:28] <Kilos> 4 more then i can hand the project over
[18:28] <Kilos> hehe
[18:31] <inetpro> haha
[18:32] <Kilos> hehe
[18:32] <inetpro> Kilos: where do you get 4 from?
[18:33] <Kilos> well i have found 14 of the 18
[18:34]  * inetpro still seeing 6 with status "Missing"
[18:34] <Kilos> oh my
[18:34] <Kilos> lemme see
[18:34] <inetpro> and then there are many more countries in Africa than just those 18
[18:35] <inetpro> Kilos: you still have some work to do sir
[18:35] <Kilos> nono locos im was given the project of finding
[18:35] <inetpro> nono, you job is to establish a loco per country
[18:35] <Kilos> nono
[18:35] <inetpro> :-)
[18:36] <inetpro> you giving up that easily?
[18:36] <Kilos> the project was to connect us to other locdos in africa
[18:36] <Kilos> nono
[18:36] <Kilos> s/locdos/locos
[18:37] <Kilos> oh my how can there still be 6 more
[18:37] <inetpro> how will you ever conquer the world if you set such a low target?
[18:37] <Kilos> hahaha
[18:38] <Kilos> waiting for ivory cost to reply to mail
[18:38] <inetpro> you wanna tell me all the other countries have zero Ubuntu users?
[18:39] <Kilos> well, 
[18:39] <Kilos> maybe i can hand it over to the teams that have joined
[18:39] <inetpro> ai!
[18:39] <Kilos> lol
[18:40] <Kilos> burkono faso i have to hand over to someone that speaks french, the dont seem to do english
[18:42] <Kilos> senegal french and wolof
[18:42] <Kilos> ai!
[19:19] <Kilos> inetpro  when peeps join africa on launchpad must the join the ml as well or is it automagic
[19:19]  * Kilos had another idea
[19:19] <inetpro> it's not automatic
[19:19] <Kilos> aw
[19:20] <Kilos> ok next question
[19:20] <Kilos> can only each individual join the ml or can i do that
[19:20] <Kilos> or even better can you
[19:20] <Kilos> hehe
[19:22] <inetpro> uh!?
[19:22] <inetpro> please rephrase
[19:23] <Kilos> i have found how to add lp members to the africa lp team, so can you then subscribe them to the mailing list
[19:23] <inetpro> no
[19:23] <inetpro> don't do it!
[19:23] <Kilos> can you make the ml automagically subscibe them
[19:23] <Kilos> oh
[19:23] <Kilos> explain
[19:23] <inetpro> no
[19:23] <mazal> Night everyone
[19:24] <Kilos> night mazal  
[19:24] <Kilos> lekker slaap
[19:24] <mazal> Dankie oom ook
[19:24] <inetpro> nag mazal
[19:24] <inetpro> Kilos: you do not want to be blacklisted
[19:24] <Kilos> by who??
[19:25] <Kilos> and why
[19:25] <inetpro> Kilos: always hand the control to the user
[19:26] <inetpro> let the user decide whether he wants to join or not
[19:26] <Kilos> the option you mean?
[19:26] <inetpro> don't forcefeed anyone
[19:26] <Kilos> ok i savvy that but im not going to follow them peeps on twitter and fb just to make contact
[19:27] <Kilos> like can i tweet to someone without following
[19:40] <inetpro> Kilos: get the book "The Art of Community" by Jono Bacon 
[19:40] <Kilos> nono
[19:40] <Kilos> no more rtfs
[19:40] <inetpro> why nono?
[19:44] <Kilos> sigh , i got it
[19:48] <inetpro> 2nd edition
[19:48] <Kilos> sec
[19:48] <inetpro> cool... read it
[19:48] <inetpro> it's only 574 pages
[19:49] <Kilos> eeeek
[19:49] <inetpro> maybe you can finish it long before me
[19:49] <Kilos> i cant see what edition it is
[19:49] <inetpro> it's on the front page
[19:49] <Kilos> oh i got it here http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/downloads/jonobacon-theartofcommunity-1ed.pdf
[19:50] <Kilos> 1st i think
[19:50] <Kilos> if that 1ed means first
[19:50] <inetpro> The Art of Community
[19:50] <inetpro> Building the New Age of Participation
[19:50] <inetpro> Second Edition
[19:51] <inetpro> Kilos: http://www.artofcommunityonline.org/get/
[19:51] <Kilos> man give me a link not stories of what to look for
[19:51] <Kilos> ha
[19:52] <inetpro> ai!
[19:52] <Kilos> lol
[19:52] <Kilos> its taking forever to open
[19:54] <inetpro> it's only 20MB
[19:54] <Kilos> ok ty i have both now
[19:54] <Kilos> now with all the rtfs no time for anything else
[19:54] <inetpro> save it in a folder where you wll remeember
[19:54] <Kilos> i have both in downloads
[19:55] <inetpro> oh and please note it was written in 2012... we've moved on since then
[19:55] <Kilos> ai!
[19:56] <inetpro> s/written/published/
[19:56] <Kilos> nee man mense is mense
[19:56] <Kilos> i just need to charm then then they do it my way
[19:56]  * Kilos ducks
[19:57] <Kilos> time to get hot water bottle ready for bed
[19:59] <Kilos> oh inetpro  i found fridges and all kinds of things for 12v
[19:59] <Kilos> but more about that on another day
[19:59] <inetpro> Kilos: you sure?
[19:59] <Kilos> even a 12v kettle
[20:00] <Kilos> and a solar hgeyser
[20:00] <Kilos> but about 7k for that
[20:00] <inetpro> the 12V is just used for lighting the gas
[20:00] <Kilos> ai!
[20:00] <Kilos> thats no good billy
[20:01] <inetpro> :-)
[20:02] <Kilos> ill investigate more
[20:04] <Kilos> there is also them old coal or antracite stoves soos op die ou plase
[20:04] <Kilos> baie lekker in die winter
[20:08] <inetpro> Kilos: we need something that can use renewable energy
[20:09] <inetpro> think long term sustainability, not short term pleasure
[20:09] <inetpro> s/pleasure/convenience/
[20:10] <Kilos> ok so its to find 12v elements
[20:10] <Kilos> but the investment will be huge to get everything
[20:10] <Kilos> but within 10 yars should pay for itself
[20:10] <Kilos> years
[20:10] <inetpro> anything sustanainable that is also affordable 
[20:11] <Kilos> ai!
[20:11] <Kilos> oh MaNI  thats what i wanted to ask you
[20:11] <Kilos> how is you dc setup going
[20:11] <MaNI> it isn't yet :p
[20:12] <Kilos> oi
[20:12] <MaNI> panels and batteries in lounge, charge controller arrives tomorrow, battery balances hopefully by thursday
[20:12] <Kilos> sjoe
[20:12] <inetpro> Kilos: lighting is easy, but the savings are very low
[20:12] <MaNI> weather permitting I should be up by the end of the week
[20:13] <Kilos> yes inetpro i agree  
[20:13] <MaNI> generally 24v would be better than 12v by the way
[20:13] <Kilos> anything that needs to make heat to cook or heat water is what costs
[20:15] <Kilos> in toti we had a large coil of black plastic pipe on the roof above kitchen for washing dishes
[20:15] <Kilos> but to heat enough for a few baths could be trickey
[20:16] <MaNI> I agree and disagree at the same time on that common opinion. Yes geyser, cooking etc. is highest draw by far but its for very short periods of time, while digital stuff draws constantly even if much less
[20:16] <Kilos> inetpro  http://www.alibaba.com/showroom/china-solar-cooker.html
[20:17] <MaNI> I have more digital stuff than usual but I have my digital stuff as probably my second biggest consumer (once all added together) 
[20:17] <MaNI> geyser 6kwh a day (possibly an overestimate) where my digital is somewhere around 5kwh
[20:17] <Kilos> no man work out how much power you need to fill one bath with hot water
[20:18] <Kilos> elements use very much more power than a pc does
[20:18] <MaNI> they do but they aren't on all day long
[20:19] <Kilos> one geyser uses 30% of your months electricity
[20:20] <MaNI> yeah, not disputing that geyser is a big part of the bill, what I'm saying is that all digital stuff + lights combined is in my case (and possibly many others a close second)
[20:20] <Kilos> ah
[20:21] <MaNI> if the digital stuff can be chopped for a similar or cheaper price than the geyser (and bring other benefits like backup against load shedding) then the common conventional geyser first wisdom maybe starts to fall apart a bit
[20:21] <inetpro> my laptop charger is rated as 73.19Wh
[20:22] <inetpro> my geyser uses about 400 kWh per month
[20:23] <MaNI> mine is 70 as well (actual watt meter not rating) + 30 for monitor :)
[20:23] <inetpro> what do we pay for electricity in Tshwane these days?
[20:23] <Kilos> inetpro  too much
[20:24] <inetpro> last I checked it was something like R1.22 per kWh
[20:24] <inetpro> I think
[20:25] <MaNI> if you ran it 24 hours a day = 1.752kWh = 52.5 for the month. No geyser but just saying seemingly small things add up if they are run a lot
[20:26] <Kilos> someone here once posted that his pc used R7 in 1/12 months
[20:26] <Kilos> something about some new kinda energy efficient thing
[20:27] <MaNI> maybe he doesn't use it much :p
[20:28] <Kilos> with lots of effort i spose i could check current drain here
[20:28] <MaNI> my two main pcs are 120W and 85W 'idle' much more when doing lots of stuff, been measuring with a nifty watt meter plug I bought
[20:29] <Kilos> how much more
[20:29] <MaNI> depends what they are doing
[20:29] <Kilos> and what is doing lotsa stuff
[20:30] <MaNI> up to 180W if starting some programs
[20:30] <MaNI> over 200w if gaming
[20:31] <Kilos> ok
[20:31] <Kilos> i only freecell so im good
[20:31] <MaNI> I have an integrated GPU core which is quite energy efficient - with an external graphics card I'd expect as much as 400w
[20:31] <Kilos> whew
[20:32] <MaNI> my LED screen draws only 27.5W while the same size older LCD draws 42W - interesting to see the difference :p
[20:32] <Kilos> yeah
[20:33] <Kilos> some things have improved stacks
[20:33] <inetpro> interesting!
[20:33] <Kilos> anyway i must go bed
[20:33] <Kilos> night all, sleep tight
[20:34] <MaNI> in COCT it is now 175.90 c/kWh for first 600 and 213.90 c/kWh thereafter
[20:35] <MaNI> so a small reduction brings greater gains than a large system
[20:35] <inetpro> wow, gone up quite a bit
[20:35] <MaNI> i.e. if I use 900 kWh a month I get the best bang for bucks if I can chop off 300 kWh
[20:35] <MaNI> yeah latest price hikes are bad :(
[20:36] <MaNI> just went up this month
[20:58] <inetpro> 07/05 22:12:22 <MaNI> panels and batteries in lounge, charge controller arrives tomorrow, battery balances hopefully by thursday
[20:58] <inetpro> how many panels and batteries?
[20:59] <MaNI> 6 panels 4 batteries - though I possibly got too many panels 4 may have been enough, time will tell
[20:59] <inetpro> or shall I rather ask, how much power in kWh are you planning to store for now?
[21:00] <MaNI> doing this as much for research as anything else, I'll publish the results for others to benefit from
[21:00] <inetpro> cool
[21:01] <MaNI> batteries are small - 22Ah (but they are proper deep cycles ones that can discharge far)
[21:01] <MaNI> I'm purposefully trying to do things a bit different then normal - normal focus is on systems that will provide power all night etc. which are expensive
[21:03] <MaNI> I'm trying to find a good balance thats sort of 'as cheap as you can get away with to help you with 4 hours of load shedding and save yourself money in a 3-4  year timespan) but still upgrade in future'
[21:03]  * inetpro should really focus on reducing power usage on big stuff like geyser, stove and heaters
[21:04] <MaNI> see thats the thing, thats still the best focus if all you want is cost reduction, but it doesn't help you at all in terms of power outages :p
[21:04] <inetpro> geyser should actually be a no-brainer these days but I haven't done it yet
[21:05]  * inetpro can live with two hours of loadshedding, as inconvenient as it is
[21:06] <MaNI> I'm looking to show that conventional wisdom is no longer necessarily right. I mean if you only have R15k or R20k to spend. If you have lots to spend then geyser etc. first is still best policy
[21:06] <MaNI> but yeah it all depends on needs
[21:08] <superfly> MaNI: where in Cape Town do you live?
[21:08] <MaNI> I find it quite funny/sad to see people saying things like - "what is the minimum system I need so that I can power 3x 50 inch tvs during loadshedding for myself, wife and children" - can't they just kick their children outside or read a book or something,  just shows how crazy peoples priorities can be
[21:08] <MaNI> superfly, I'm out in Gordons Bay
[21:08] <superfly> MaNI: +1
[21:08] <superfly> Ah, OK, I'm in Muizenberg
[21:09] <inetpro> MaNI: when my TV broke a few years ago it was the best thing that could ever happen
[21:10] <MaNI> heh, I threw mine away when I moved to CT, which is now like 6 years or something
[21:10] <inetpro> the kids became human again
[21:10] <superfly> yeah, we've never had a TV
[21:10] <MaNI> have not missed it, though I do of course watch some series and stuff still on computers
[21:10] <superfly> I actually have hired a jungle gym for the kids (it's R250/month)
[21:10] <MaNI> but somehow not having a dedicated box is better, way less inclined to watch junk, brain washing news etc. :p
[21:11]  * superfly must go to bed
[21:11] <superfly> night all
[21:11] <MaNI> yeah also :p
[21:11] <inetpro> good night superfly
[21:11] <inetpro> oh and good night MaNI and everyone else