[00:28] TJ-: in regards to ubottu, it seems they removed a bunch of useful suggestions and ignore new ones. [00:33] yep sounds about right [00:33] every time i suggest something it gets ignored [03:37] good morning to all [04:08] My shift is at an end. I will see yall, later. [08:37] Gppd morning. [08:37] Good* [09:20] Hey [09:20] What's up guys [09:20] o/ [09:21] What?? [09:21] Dylan_: Just waving ;) [09:21] o <-- head, / <-- waving arm [09:22] Oh haha [09:22] :)) [09:22] What distro do you use?? [09:22] I use Linux lite lol but like i emulate in virtualbox [09:22] It's quite fast compared to ubuntu [09:23] My main workstation runs Gentoo, and I have a test box running Kubuntu Wily. [09:24] Nice [09:25] Yeah I run my things on my windows 8.1 laptop with a core i3 1.90ghz and like it came with 4gb ram so I tried ubuntu omg it was so laggy I couldn't use it so I found Linux lite and I'm happy with it so i use with virtualbox :) [09:26] Heh, an i3. [09:26] Does that have VT-D support? [09:26] can't click on the accretion tab but I guess so [09:27] yeah an i3 hahaha [09:27] Ah it does: http://ark.intel.com/products/81018/Intel-Core-i3-4030U-Processor-3M-Cache-1_90-GHz [09:27] Yup that's the one [09:27] I suppose most Intel cpu's support VT-d nowadays. [09:27] But in virtualbox idk doesn't let me click the accretion tab [09:28] Yea [09:28] That is odd... [09:28] I'm from australia just letting everyone know haha [09:29] Too bad you are not running Linux as the host, else I would have recommended kvm :P [09:29] Yeah I got windows 8.1 as host and Linux lite with a guest so and windows 2000 hahha [09:39] Whoops [11:47] G'Day folks [13:06] good afternoon to all [13:08] o/ [13:08] lordievader: hello mate [13:08] How are you doing? [13:08] fine tnx and you? [13:09] Doing ok here. [13:09] just cam from the city (sunny weather) [15:31] i partially reconfigured my NAS connection, it shouldnt work before a NAS reboot, but it does... i'm happy, but i'm not getting it... [15:32] Now we are happy too [16:32] I've been looking at the Hacker-Team source-code (Nation-state Malware insertion for stealing data) that has been exfiltrated from the company and posted on github, and in particular its core-linux module. It looks like it uses 0-days to compromise Linux machines and makes a lot of use of Ubuntu-specific packages, and appears to masquerade as part of the whoopsie error-reporting service. Looks like something we need to consider and take steps to protect ag [16:32] ainst [16:38] TJ-, did you get all the 400+ gb??? i shaked my head when i saw the index [16:39] hi lotus [16:39] OerHeks: good evening mate :p [16:40] !info firefox [16:40] firefox (source: firefox): Safe and easy web browser from Mozilla. In component main, is optional. Version 38.0+build3-0ubuntu0.15.04.1 (vivid), package size 39627 kB, installed size 96718 kB [16:40] 39 is only available for wily [16:41] OerHeks: No, I focused in on the parts that attack Linux directly [16:41] omgubuntu says 40 is out and improved alot for linux [16:41] I have 39 on 14.04 [16:41] strange [16:42] http://news.softpedia.com/news/firefox-40-to-bring-better-performance-scrolling-and-graphics-on-linux-486110.shtml [16:42] Using PPA mozillateam-firefox-next [16:42] beta .. they always have a next beta when a version comes out [16:42] right, im still on 38 here [16:43] apt-cache says: Installed: 39.0~b7+build1-0ubuntu0.14.04.1 [16:43] TJ-: nice :p [16:43] small improvements on 39 right [16:43] im on chrome, and i found out today that gmail asks a lot of questions, so many that you get scared [16:44] I'm not sure if it's my system or a bug in 39, but it also wants to 'restore' tabs when it starts even though it closed down cleanly last time [16:44] s/also/always/ [16:44] yeah gmail gave me security warning loggin with my nexus7 ubuntu touch [16:44] and also on gm-notify indicator [16:44] I run different Firefox profiles on each of my 4 X screens, some for research, some for docs, etc., and they all do it, so it's not a profile issue [16:44] so ive disabled untrusted apps [16:46] TJ-: and you close all tabs and profiles before closing FF? [16:48] lotuspsychje: No, I have it set to save tabs and reopen on start. But on start, 39 always offers the 'oops something went wrong, shall I reopen all your tabs' [16:49] TJ-: maybe it sees 'saving' tabs as an error on closedown? [16:50] possibly, but as I say it's specific to 39, didn't happen with 38 [16:50] yeah might be [17:13] EriC^^: good evening mate [17:14] evening lotuspsychje [17:15] how's it going? [17:15] great, what about you? [17:15] great [17:16] how's the shop coming together? [17:17] how i have not started yet [17:18] we need to buy a house first [17:18] lotuspsychje: When do you plan on opening the shop? [17:18] then ill start the shop from there [17:18] fall-winter 2015 i think [17:19] Hmm, I see. [17:19] a friend will build the webshop for me [17:20] http://www.ubuntushop.be/en/ [17:20] this looks already an interseting site [17:21] but ill try to make it simple and better [17:21] Are you going to use the name Ubuntu? [17:22] no [17:22] lotus computers [17:22] Ah, good. I get the feeling that Ubuntushop can get pretty sued. [17:23] Ubuntu is still a trademark after all. [17:23] yeah think so too [17:23] but its legal to mention the computers run 'ubuntu' right? [17:23] as the Os [17:25] To refer to it sure. But they are using it as if they represent Ubuntu, not sure if Canonical is happy with that. [17:25] yeah think so neither [17:26] lordievader: http://www.ubuntushop.be/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38&Itemid=528 [17:26] lol 'windowsfree' computer :p [17:26] i dont think Ms would like that either :p [17:27] Ooh, Joomla. [17:27] Meh, legaly there ain't anything wrong with that. [17:27] Err, wut? High end with an i3? [17:27] lol [17:28] low end i7 then :p [17:28] if you say windows (tm) you are fine [17:28] ah [17:28] but i wont use that on my site [17:28] Also why don't the servers have any specifications? [17:28] Crappy site. [17:28] just mention ubuntu running as Os and explain opensource [17:29] You pay 1500+ euros and you have no idea what you are getting... [17:29] lotuspsychje, and give an option to buy without OS at all. [17:29] virgin drive [17:30] OerHeks: for the users who want to install ubuntu themselfs? [17:30] At least they mention Kubuntu. [17:30] lordievader: lol [17:30] or bsd, or fedora, who knows? [17:30] OerHeks: yeah good idea [17:32] OerHeks: ill charge 49 to install ubuntu LTS, the users who wanna install themselfs, can [17:34] 50 euros to install Ubu? [17:35] lordievader: well the Os is free, but the barebone laptop will come without Os to me, and ill install the ssd + ubuntu install+tweaks+packages [17:35] no, make no price difference, just give them a dvd/usb with ubuntu 64 bit anyway :-D [17:36] that would i do. [17:36] ill have more then 2hours work on each box [17:36] Yeah, you one time make an install then you image that install. Every next laptop is flash image + resize2fs... [17:36] lordievader: good idea [17:37] OerHeks: and deliver ubuntu usb with ubuntu bootable also good idea [17:37] lotuspsychje: I'm full of them ;) [17:37] OerHeks: but i need to earn something right [17:37] Anyhow, don't you think 50 euros is a bit overpriced? [17:37] lordievader: my ears are open [17:37] I'm not spilling my beans all at once ;) [17:37] lordievader: well LTS, they will benefit years from it right, and never come back to me [17:38] those 50 euros are the profit people hope to make, buying without windows. [17:38] guys i know this is offtopic but does anyone know something like microsoft office's word that is for free for windows? [17:38] OerHeks: well the laptops i will buy barebone without windows and ms office, will save me 180 euro+ [17:39] so 49 to install ubuntu + ssd + tweaks i find that reasonable [17:39] abiword, openoffice, libreoffice, ibm office .. ( lotus) [17:40] OerHeks: i will also do convertings windows to ubuntu + ssd also 49 [17:40] OerHeks: was that for lotus or me? [17:40] existing win boxes [17:40] EriC^^, for you [17:40] i need to earn $$ for service right, not only selling hardware [17:40] didn't you know about those? [17:41] OerHeks: oh ok, thanks [17:41] the whole idea of the business will be a fast ssd computer running bloody fast on ubuntu 6'bit LTS [17:41] no, i thought they were linux only [17:41] 64 [17:41] OerHeks: are those for windows? [17:43] http://www.abisource.com/download/ https://www.openoffice.org/download/ .. lotus if trialware now :-( i had a license once [17:43] if-is* [17:44] OerHeks: ok, thanks :D [17:44] OerHeks, lordievader check this configurator for price: https://www.bto.eu/bto-u-book-15cl16.html#product-configuration [17:44] lotuspsychje: How much cheaper would your laptop be compared to the same running windows? [17:44] without windows and office and no hd [17:44] lordievader: depends on wich windows version and wich ms office version [17:45] ill try to make the website with fixxed Os and ssd [17:45] Something current, no Office. [17:45] ubuntu and samsung pro 850 [17:47] 200 euros? [17:47] More? Less? [17:47] lordievader: yeah around 180 [17:47] With the included service costs? [17:48] wicj service [17:49] For a laptop of around 500 euros that is quite nice. For laptops around 1k, 2k, I'm not sure if people will go for your machines. [17:49] lordievader: why not? [17:50] Because percentage wise 200 euros on 2k is not a whole lot. And people love their Windows. [17:50] thats true some folks stick to windows [17:50] but ill work with the other folks :p [17:51] Price is a good argument to switch, but ~10 percent. Don't know. [17:51] with a good personal service [17:51] and fast starting computer [17:52] hire a hot girl to take care of sales [17:52] lol [17:52] That is allways a good way to sell stuff :P [17:52] EriC^^: my gf is already hot [17:53] boobuntu computers :p [17:53] genius. [17:53] There you go, done deal. [17:54] EriC^^: i need a promo video like you found for me the other day [17:54] yeah i know what you're saying [17:54] 2 spinning disks instead of 1, and they transform into 2 boobs [17:54] lol [17:54] what's the word, morph? [17:55] EriC^^: what folder was that in again? [17:55] EriC^^: lol ssd's dont have a spin :p [17:55] You can make them spin :P [17:55] hehe [17:55] /usr/share/example-content/Ubuntu_Free_Culture_Showcase/How fast.ogg [17:55] tnx [17:57] also keep in mind that my store wont be able to sell windows based software to earn [17:58] only hardware accesoires [17:58] lotuspsychje: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2002/2186579912_cd2045628c.jpg [17:58] EriC^^: lolll [17:59] EriC^^: are those your 3 gf's?? [17:59] once the shop starts working, you can expand too [17:59] http://newstechnica.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/ubuntu-desktop-bums.jpg [17:59] lolz [18:00] im sure that will bring more customers [18:00] lotuspsychje: If i may make a suggestion; install some form of snapshot/recovery mini OS as well as the primary, with automated log collection tools, if you want to avoid time-expensive support if or when the user's mess up [18:01] TJ-: as lordievader suggested something with an image? [18:02] lotuspsychje: If they're UEFI, *please* install the full EDK v2.x shell into /EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI" so the thing will boot to something if they manage to wipe out the EFI boot entries [18:03] TJ-: lets hope they dont touch uefi stuff [18:03] TJ-: ill try to make them clear when buying :p [18:03] lotuspsychje: before I retired, I used to own a group of IT companies that did a lot of small-business support contracts, and the thing that made us most profit was ensuring we but tools and procedures in place to efficiently provide support/rollback/recovery when the inevitable calls came in. [18:03] s/but/put/ [18:04] Just don't give them anyway into root? [18:04] TJ-: did you do linux computers too? [18:04] makes not difference, sudo will do just as much damage [18:04] lordievader: make another user for them by default? [18:05] lotuspsychje: on the server-side and some workstations but primarily it was Windows. This was back between 1990-2004 [18:05] cool [18:06] sudo is a way into root, i.e. disable that too :P [18:06] It was more of a joke than real advice. [18:06] lotuspsychje: Don't do anything non-standard in the primary installs, but install a safety-net at several levels (boot, mini-OS, snapshoting file-system) to provide protection and fast recovery. [18:06] lordievader: well most ppl will use GUI and use pass just for the update icon right [18:07] For updates you need sudo ;) [18:07] TJ-: good idea [18:07] easiest thing to do is make your own grub menu [18:07] which you can boot from the boot options ( you add it in efibootmgr ), [18:07] lotuspsychje: and things like either an rsync or git-commit on a cron job that saves the state or /etc/* and $HOME every day... that can be so invaluable [18:08] and it runs an .iso off the hdd that will restore everything and keep /home intact for instance [18:08] EriC^^: also nice idea [18:09] call it recovery or restore pc or something in the boot manager [18:09] EriC^^: GRUB might be dead... which is why I say install the full UEFI shell v2.x to /EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI so that the PC will boot to a shell of some form no matter what, short of complete disk trashing [18:09] TJ-: nah he makes a partition that has only grub and an .iso and it's in the efibootmgr called restore pc [18:09] and it launches that efi partition, which has the .iso too [18:09] but most ppl wont even be able to mess up their box anyways, my 75 y old father works with LTS for years now, never been able to mess it up [18:09] EriC^^: your ISO idea == my mini-OS ... a self-contained, networked, recovery suite with just the tools needed for efficient (anod possibly remote networked) recovery [18:10] the user won't know it's there unless he mounts it manually [18:10] yeah, putting it in the efibootmgr would be cool though [18:10] they'd just press f9 when the pc starts, and select restore pc and voila [18:10] EriC^^: Agreed, but not rely on it being there for it to start [18:10] oem-like restoration [18:10] and there's always fresh install i can do in 15min on the ssd [18:10] * TJ- nods [18:11] lotuspsychje: the problem with fresh install is user-data gets into some strange places... so maybe always have the /home/ in a separate file-system. [18:11] yeah sure, give him a restore usb he can boot [18:11] too [18:12] well im gonna sell data hd's too, and offer payed backups too [18:12] ive gotta earn for the store also right [18:12] lotuspsychje: I found that the majority of the cost in selling PCs is post-sales support, not failed hardware, and especially in a retail environment selling to end-users there are legal obligations that can quickly wipe out your profit margin which is already going to be slim [18:13] but recovery/iso/uefi is good idea tnx to both! [18:13] faster restore for me [18:13] =saves money [18:14] lotuspsychje: that's it precisely, and possibly more useful word spreads how professional and efficient you are and how amazing your support is [18:14] lol [18:14] 98% of our new business used to come from recommendations like that... our advertising budget was 0 [18:14] mouth to mouth spread [18:15] is important for sure [18:15] mouth to ear :) [18:15] and i know alot of ppl [18:15] lotuspsychje: i think if you focus also on gaming you'd make a killing [18:15] like lots of people want to get a cheap laptop for their kids with games they can play [18:15] EriC^^: but i dont hear such good things about steam these days [18:15] open hardware with known good drivers and experience too [18:16] TJ-: yeah thats gonna be some trouble, i dont want atheros or broadcom chipsets [18:17] EriC^^: would the gamers not feel limited on just steam box? [18:17] lotuspsychje: i was thinking more along the lines of 10 year olds or so [18:17] EriC^^: all their mates playing high end stuff like the witcher3 or so [18:17] cause i notice from the channel some people give their kids ubuntu cause they think they won't screw it up or so [18:18] lol [18:18] There's a large market for 'supervised' computing for parents to know what their kids are up to on the PC [18:18] also most people in the channel are in college [18:18] yeah exactly, many times people are like i want the pc to have net access only for 2 hours [18:18] or i want to ban this and that [18:18] which i get into fights with [18:18] lol [18:19] i really hope someone invents a deamon tools linux version that can load up Iso's universal on any os [18:19] anyways lotuspsychje you need to work for both parties, tell the dad how to ban the sites, and slip the kid a porn partition [18:19] EriC^^: then ill sell a pc to father, mother and kid= 3x :p [18:19] lotuspsychje: you gotta think ;) [18:19] haha [18:19] lol j/k [18:20] thats where to cool user part on ubuntu comes on.. [18:20] Dad, jamie,mommy,sister [18:20] everyone a /home to sleep in :p [18:21] and a /root to wallow in ;P [18:21] lol [18:21] lol [18:22] seriously though, you could maybe prepare iso's that are preinstalled with stuff [18:22] like one for college students who particular stuff [18:22] EriC^^: i think ill use something like aptoncd perhaps [18:22] wasn't there something like remastersys? [18:22] EriC^^: but in categories like you say [18:23] and one for maybe kids that are 10 or so who their parents want to let them use the pc for a couple hours after homework [18:23] student,multimedia,gaming [18:24] if i clean install LTS on a samsung pro 850, will take only 15min with all updates [18:24] if i aptoncd after on the box could be quick right [18:24] or download the .debs on a stick perhaps [18:24] yeah cause everything is already downloaded i guess [18:25] or maybe it will change to snappy soon,...who knows what that will bring as advantages [18:26] lets just hope, the regular users will be smart enough to bare with ubuntu future changes [18:29] lotuspsychje: For your iso thing, you have mount ;) [18:30] lordievader: yeah but i mean to install + play the game in any os [18:30] lordievader: right now, an ubuntu box with high end card cant play GTA5 or so right [18:30] ? [18:31] lordievader: would be nice to load the game iso on the raw hardware, not depending on the Os [18:31] the same windows box can play it normally right [18:32] You mean let every game have its own os? [18:33] no, to load up games on any Os on the hardware with a deamon-tools like virtual tool [18:34] its hard to explain as it probably doesnt exist [18:34] you cant load GTA5 on a virtualbox windows8 from ubuntu neither right [18:35] but the box, can handle the game on the hardware (from proper windows) [18:35] Why not? [18:35] it won't have the graphics [18:35] yeah it will bottleneck [18:35] and probably just 1 cpu etc. unless you give it more [18:35] If you pass through a gpu I see no problem. [18:36] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17qxEpn4EGs [18:36] GPU pass-through is pretty well supported with modern CPUs [18:39] team fortress isnt a high end game [18:39] Point is, you can game on a vm. [18:39] yeah i know that lordievader [18:39] but not the high end games [18:40] some users video's ive seen can tweak alot of stuff indeed [18:41] make games like far cry run pretty fine on ubuntu [18:41] If it were me I'd have a PC with a primary powerful GPU that can be used for games, and a DisplayLink USB adapter for connecting an external screen for the non-gaming GPU :) [18:42] lotuspsychje: It can, passthrough a powerfull gpu and your done. [18:42] lordievader: would like to see that on GTA5 or the witcher3 :p [18:43] Heh, GTA5 seems to run under Wine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb1jZRRrOo4 [18:44] why would you want to run any high end game under wine? [18:44] No idea. [18:45] and, "because you can" is not a valid reason ;P [18:45] its gta4 and pretty laggy [18:45] lotuspsychje: So back to your original idea/argument, I still don't get it. [18:46] lordievader: the idea would be to create a multi-Os tool that can load games on the raw hardware [18:46] (not depending on the Os) but running on the high end videocard [18:46] The tool has the drivers for the hardware? [18:47] not sure how that would work [18:47] but it surely would be cool [18:47] lotuspsychje: That's be fine if the games were written to a universal hypervisor interface, but they're not they're written specifically to the latest Windows/DirectX APIs in most cases, with some support for OpenGL [18:47] You need something to talk to all the hardware... and that everything is different doesn't help. That is why we have os'es. [18:47] Let the os deal with the hardware ;) [18:48] TJ-: well wine emulates abit like that right [18:48] lotuspsychje: What does wine spell again? :P [18:48] TJ-: so a multi-Os wine tool lookalike that can run game is'os [18:49] lordievader: bad headache? :p [18:49] lotuspsychje: Wine is not an emulator ;) [18:49] wine doesn't emulate it directly implements a large number of the Windows APIs and translates them into equivalent Linux/OpenGL function calls [18:50] ok, but you get the idea what i mean right [18:50] that's why running in wine is the same performance as on Windows *if* the APIs are implemented. The problem is, there are *thousands* of APIs and many are undocumented or documented incorrectly, so wine has to even re-implement Windows bugs to make it compatible [18:51] Sort of. I think if you set out to make something like that that you will get a major headache. [18:51] maybe in the future, someone bright might invent it [18:51] Crossover have been doing the commercial side of Wine for a decade or so and they're still playing catch-up :) [18:51] Does anyone here program on mechanical keyboards? [18:52] All keyboards are mechanical aren't they? [18:52] EriC^^, [18:52] baja knows how to paste [18:52] OerHeks: i dont follow [18:53] you mean he's trolling? [18:53] TJ-: Appearantly not. [18:54] TJ-: http://www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2012/12/an-introduction-to-cherry-mx-mechanical-switches/ [18:54] the only non-mechanical i can think of are touchscreens and laser detector types [18:55] OerHeks: ? [18:55] Yeah, ok. Per pure definition all keyboards are mechanical. But usually people refer to keyboards with Cherry MX switches as mechanical keyboards. [18:55] alll moveable keys have a mechanical action even if that is to press down on a dimple of springy silicon [18:56] Supposedly they are superior to the regular $20 keyboards. [18:56] I prefer long-stroke keys, but I also prefer silicon dimples to metal springs [18:56] I'm considering purchasing one, but they are rather expensive. [18:57] I use Bluetooth Apple keyboards - the only Apple product I'll buy! [18:57] I use them because they have the best action I've ever experienced [18:58] i'm using a lame genius one right now [18:58] i spilled soda on the laptop's keyboard and it's toast haven't gotten a replacement yet [18:59] this one sounds like a freakin typewriter :) [18:59] :-( [18:59] hot even the original IBM PC keyboard??? with the added mechanical springy sound? LOL [18:59] *not [18:59] EriC^^: just remove it, wash it out with detergent and hot water, shake it and blow-dry it for 10 minutes [19:00] TJ-: i tried, it worked for one day after the spill, then suddenly it stopped [19:00] i tried soaking it in alcohol over night and warm water etc. nothing fixed it [19:01] i was pretty appauled as i've done my fair share of spills on numerous laptops and they never gave a problem [19:01] EriC^^: debris in the silicon dimples usually; I generally strip a keyboard right down to bare PCB once a year to clean it thoroughly [19:01] TJ-: i took all the keys off in the end, and washed it alot but it still won't work [19:02] EriC^^: that's unusual, I wonder if contaminant got into the ribbon connector [19:02] i could probably use it without the letters, i got a keyboard when i was about 15 once and it turned out to be a different language one, but i never returned it cause i had the keyboard pretty memorized anyways [19:02] I owe, I owe, so off to work i go ;P *waves* [19:02] TJ-: could be, some of the keys were acting up, like giving weird characters [19:03] Yes, that sounds like shorting across the matrix [19:04] some keyboards have multiple layers of flexible circuits with apertures where the silicon dimples fit, and contamination between can create new conductive pathways [19:05] i see [19:07] We used to deal with that kind of issue alot, to the point where at larger customers we pre-positioned replacement parts like keyboards so they could simply swap a new one in whilst wo took in, disassembled and cleaned the one they'd spilt coffee in :) [19:13] heh :) [19:14] pretty neat [19:14] if you can avoid an emergency on-site call you save a lot of expense [19:15] yeah, it's pretty efficient [19:15] We could do 95% of the support remotely, so the only emergency issues we generally dealt with were failing hard disks and folks pulling out wires [19:17] that's nice [22:17] lordievader: you can buy Cherry keyboards for reasonable prices? [22:23] v.a. 27 euro http://www.centralpoint.nl/toetsenborden/cherry/