[00:28] <histo> TJ-: in regards to ubottu, it seems they removed a bunch of useful suggestions and ignore new ones.
[00:33] <daftykins> yep sounds about right
[00:33] <daftykins> every time i suggest something it gets ignored
[03:37] <lotuspsychje> good morning to all
[04:08] <Bashing-om> My shift is at an end. I will see yall, later.
[08:37] <lordievader> Gppd morning.
[08:37] <lordievader> Good*
[09:20] <Dylan_> Hey
[09:20] <Dylan_> What's up guys
[09:20] <lordievader> o/
[09:21] <Dylan_> What??
[09:21] <lordievader> Dylan_: Just waving ;)
[09:21] <lordievader> o <-- head, / <-- waving arm
[09:22] <Dylan_> Oh haha
[09:22] <Dylan_> :))
[09:22] <Dylan_> What distro do you use??
[09:22] <Dylan_> I use Linux lite lol but like i emulate in virtualbox
[09:22] <Dylan_> It's quite fast compared to ubuntu
[09:23] <lordievader> My main workstation runs Gentoo, and I have a test box running Kubuntu Wily.
[09:24] <Dylan_> Nice
[09:25] <Dylan_> Yeah I run my things on my windows 8.1 laptop with a core i3 1.90ghz and like it came with 4gb ram so I tried ubuntu omg it was so laggy I couldn't use it so I found Linux lite and I'm happy with it so i use with virtualbox :)
[09:26] <lordievader> Heh, an i3.
[09:26] <lordievader> Does that have VT-D support?
[09:26] <Dylan_> can't click on the accretion tab but I guess so
[09:27] <Dylan_> yeah an i3 hahaha
[09:27] <lordievader> Ah it does: http://ark.intel.com/products/81018/Intel-Core-i3-4030U-Processor-3M-Cache-1_90-GHz
[09:27] <Dylan_> Yup that's the one
[09:27] <lordievader> I suppose most Intel cpu's support VT-d nowadays.
[09:27] <Dylan_> But in virtualbox idk doesn't let me click the accretion tab
[09:28] <Dylan_> Yea
[09:28] <lordievader> That is odd...
[09:28] <Dylan_> I'm from australia just letting everyone know haha
[09:29] <lordievader> Too bad you are not running Linux as the host, else I would have recommended kvm :P
[09:29] <Dylan_> Yeah I got windows 8.1 as host and Linux lite with a guest so and windows 2000 hahha
[09:39] <lordievader> Whoops
[11:47] <BluesKaj> G'Day folks
[13:06] <lotuspsychje> good afternoon to all
[13:08] <lordievader> o/
[13:08] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: hello mate
[13:08] <lordievader> How are you doing?
[13:08] <lotuspsychje> fine tnx and you?
[13:09] <lordievader> Doing ok here.
[13:09] <lotuspsychje> just cam from the city (sunny weather)
[15:31] <MonkeyDust> i partially reconfigured my NAS connection, it shouldnt work before a NAS reboot, but it does... i'm happy, but i'm not getting it...
[15:32] <OerHeks> Now we are happy too
[16:32] <TJ-> I've been looking at the Hacker-Team source-code (Nation-state Malware insertion for stealing data) that has been exfiltrated from the company and posted on github, and in particular its core-linux module. It looks like it uses 0-days to compromise Linux machines and makes a lot of use of Ubuntu-specific packages, and appears to masquerade as part of the whoopsie error-reporting service. Looks like something we need to consider and take steps to protect ag
[16:32] <TJ-> ainst
[16:38] <OerHeks> TJ-, did you get all the 400+ gb??? i shaked my head when i saw the index
[16:39] <OerHeks> hi lotus
[16:39] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: good evening mate :p
[16:40] <lotuspsychje> !info firefox
[16:40] <OerHeks> 39 is only available for wily
[16:41] <TJ-> OerHeks: No, I focused in on the parts that attack Linux directly
[16:41] <lotuspsychje> omgubuntu says 40 is out and improved alot for linux
[16:41] <TJ-> I have 39 on 14.04
[16:41] <lotuspsychje> strange
[16:42] <lotuspsychje> http://news.softpedia.com/news/firefox-40-to-bring-better-performance-scrolling-and-graphics-on-linux-486110.shtml
[16:42] <TJ-> Using PPA mozillateam-firefox-next
[16:42] <OerHeks> beta .. they always have a next beta when a version comes out
[16:42] <lotuspsychje> right, im still on 38 here
[16:43] <TJ-> apt-cache says: Installed: 39.0~b7+build1-0ubuntu0.14.04.1
[16:43] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: nice :p
[16:43] <lotuspsychje> small improvements on 39 right
[16:43] <OerHeks> im on chrome, and i found out today that gmail asks a lot of questions, so many that you get scared
[16:44] <TJ-> I'm not sure if it's my system or a bug in 39, but it also wants to 'restore' tabs when it starts even though it closed down cleanly last time
[16:44] <TJ-> s/also/always/
[16:44] <lotuspsychje> yeah gmail gave me security warning loggin with my nexus7 ubuntu touch
[16:44] <lotuspsychje> and also on gm-notify indicator
[16:44] <TJ-> I run different Firefox profiles on each of my 4 X screens, some for research, some for docs, etc., and they all do it, so it's not a profile issue
[16:44] <lotuspsychje> so ive disabled untrusted apps
[16:46] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: and you close all tabs and profiles before closing FF?
[16:48] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: No, I have it set to save tabs and reopen on start. But on start, 39 always offers the 'oops something went wrong, shall I reopen all your tabs'
[16:49] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: maybe it sees 'saving' tabs as an error on closedown?
[16:50] <TJ-> possibly, but as I say it's specific to 39, didn't happen with 38
[16:50] <lotuspsychje> yeah might be
[17:13] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: good evening mate
[17:14] <EriC^^> evening lotuspsychje
[17:15] <EriC^^> how's it going?
[17:15] <lotuspsychje> great, what about you?
[17:15] <EriC^^> great
[17:16] <EriC^^> how's the shop coming together?
[17:17] <lotuspsychje> how i have not started yet
[17:18] <lotuspsychje> we need to buy a house first
[17:18] <lordievader> lotuspsychje: When do you plan on opening the shop?
[17:18] <lotuspsychje> then ill start the shop from there
[17:18] <lotuspsychje> fall-winter 2015 i think
[17:19] <lordievader> Hmm, I see.
[17:19] <lotuspsychje> a friend will build the webshop for me
[17:20] <lotuspsychje> http://www.ubuntushop.be/en/
[17:20] <lotuspsychje> this looks already an interseting site
[17:21] <lotuspsychje> but ill try to make it simple and better
[17:21] <lordievader> Are you going to use the name Ubuntu?
[17:22] <lotuspsychje> no
[17:22] <lotuspsychje> lotus computers
[17:22] <lordievader> Ah, good. I get the feeling that Ubuntushop can get pretty sued.
[17:23] <lordievader> Ubuntu is still a trademark after all.
[17:23] <lotuspsychje> yeah think so too
[17:23] <lotuspsychje> but its legal to mention the computers run 'ubuntu' right?
[17:23] <lotuspsychje> as the Os
[17:25] <lordievader> To refer to it sure. But they are using it as if they represent Ubuntu, not sure if Canonical is happy with that.
[17:25] <lotuspsychje> yeah think so neither
[17:26] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: http://www.ubuntushop.be/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=38&Itemid=528
[17:26] <lotuspsychje> lol 'windowsfree' computer :p
[17:26] <lotuspsychje> i dont think Ms would like that either :p
[17:27] <lordievader> Ooh, Joomla.
[17:27] <lordievader> Meh, legaly there ain't anything wrong with that.
[17:27] <lordievader> Err, wut? High end with an i3?
[17:27] <lotuspsychje> lol
[17:28] <lotuspsychje> low end i7 then :p
[17:28] <OerHeks> if you say windows (tm) you are fine
[17:28] <lotuspsychje> ah
[17:28] <lotuspsychje> but i wont use that on my site
[17:28] <lordievader> Also why don't the servers have any specifications?
[17:28] <lordievader> Crappy site.
[17:28] <lotuspsychje> just mention ubuntu running as Os and explain opensource
[17:29] <lordievader> You pay 1500+ euros and you have no idea what you are getting...
[17:29] <OerHeks> lotuspsychje, and give an option to buy without OS at all.
[17:29] <OerHeks> virgin drive
[17:30] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: for the users who want to install ubuntu themselfs?
[17:30] <lordievader> At least they mention Kubuntu.
[17:30] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: lol
[17:30] <OerHeks> or bsd, or fedora, who knows?
[17:30] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: yeah good idea
[17:32] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: ill charge 49 to install ubuntu LTS, the users who wanna install themselfs, can
[17:34] <lordievader> 50 euros to install Ubu?
[17:35] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: well the Os is free, but the barebone laptop will come without Os to me, and ill install the ssd + ubuntu install+tweaks+packages
[17:35] <OerHeks> no, make no price difference, just give them a dvd/usb with ubuntu 64 bit anyway :-D
[17:36] <OerHeks> that would i do.
[17:36] <lotuspsychje> ill have more then 2hours work on each box
[17:36] <lordievader> Yeah, you one time make an install then you image that install. Every next laptop is flash image + resize2fs...
[17:36] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: good idea
[17:37] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: and deliver ubuntu usb with ubuntu bootable also good idea
[17:37] <lordievader> lotuspsychje: I'm full of them ;)
[17:37] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: but i need to earn something right
[17:37] <lordievader> Anyhow, don't you think 50 euros is a bit overpriced?
[17:37] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: my ears are open
[17:37] <lordievader> I'm not spilling my beans all at once ;)
[17:37] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: well LTS, they will benefit years from it right, and never come back to me
[17:38] <OerHeks> those 50 euros are the profit people hope to make, buying without windows.
[17:38] <EriC^^> guys i know this is offtopic but does anyone know something like microsoft office's word that is for free for windows?
[17:38] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: well the laptops i will buy barebone without windows and ms office, will save me 180 euro+
[17:39] <lotuspsychje> so 49 to install ubuntu + ssd + tweaks i find that reasonable
[17:39] <OerHeks> abiword, openoffice, libreoffice, ibm office .. ( lotus)
[17:40] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks: i will also do convertings windows to ubuntu + ssd also 49
[17:40] <EriC^^> OerHeks: was that for lotus or me?
[17:40] <lotuspsychje> existing win boxes
[17:40] <OerHeks> EriC^^, for you
[17:40] <lotuspsychje> i need to earn $$ for service right, not only selling hardware
[17:40] <OerHeks> didn't you know about those?
[17:41] <EriC^^> OerHeks: oh ok, thanks
[17:41] <lotuspsychje> the whole idea of the business will be a fast ssd computer running bloody fast on ubuntu 6'bit LTS
[17:41] <EriC^^> no, i thought they were linux only
[17:41] <lotuspsychje> 64
[17:41] <EriC^^> OerHeks: are those for windows?
[17:43] <OerHeks> http://www.abisource.com/download/ https://www.openoffice.org/download/ .. lotus if trialware now :-( i had a license once
[17:43] <OerHeks> if-is*
[17:44] <EriC^^> OerHeks: ok, thanks :D
[17:44] <lotuspsychje> OerHeks, lordievader check this configurator for price: https://www.bto.eu/bto-u-book-15cl16.html#product-configuration
[17:44] <lordievader> lotuspsychje: How much cheaper would your laptop be compared to the same running windows?
[17:44] <lotuspsychje> without windows and office and no hd
[17:44] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: depends on wich windows version and wich ms office version
[17:45] <lotuspsychje> ill try to make the website with fixxed Os and ssd
[17:45] <lordievader> Something current, no Office.
[17:45] <lotuspsychje> ubuntu and samsung pro 850
[17:47] <lordievader> 200 euros?
[17:47] <lordievader> More? Less?
[17:47] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: yeah around 180
[17:47] <lordievader> With the included service costs?
[17:48] <lotuspsychje> wicj service
[17:49] <lordievader> For a laptop of around 500 euros that is quite nice. For laptops around 1k, 2k, I'm not sure if people will go for your machines.
[17:49] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: why not?
[17:50] <lordievader> Because percentage wise 200 euros on 2k is not a whole lot. And people love their Windows.
[17:50] <lotuspsychje> thats true some folks stick to windows
[17:50] <lotuspsychje> but ill work with the other folks :p
[17:51] <lordievader> Price is a good argument to switch, but ~10 percent. Don't know.
[17:51] <lotuspsychje> with a good personal service
[17:51] <lotuspsychje> and fast starting computer
[17:52] <EriC^^> hire a hot girl to take care of sales
[17:52] <lotuspsychje> lol
[17:52] <lordievader> That is allways a good way to sell stuff :P
[17:52] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: my gf is already hot
[17:53] <lotuspsychje> boobuntu computers :p
[17:53] <EriC^^> genius.
[17:53] <lordievader> There you go, done deal.
[17:54] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i need a promo video like you found for me the other day
[17:54] <EriC^^> yeah i know what you're saying
[17:54] <EriC^^> 2 spinning disks instead of 1, and they transform into 2 boobs
[17:54] <lotuspsychje> lol
[17:54] <EriC^^> what's the word, morph?
[17:55] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: what folder was that in again?
[17:55] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: lol ssd's dont have a spin :p
[17:55] <lordievader> You can make them spin :P
[17:55] <lotuspsychje> hehe
[17:55] <EriC^^> /usr/share/example-content/Ubuntu_Free_Culture_Showcase/How fast.ogg
[17:55] <lotuspsychje> tnx
[17:57] <lotuspsychje> also keep in mind that my store wont be able to sell windows based software to earn
[17:58] <lotuspsychje> only hardware accesoires
[17:58] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2002/2186579912_cd2045628c.jpg
[17:58] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: lolll
[17:59] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: are those your 3 gf's??
[17:59] <EriC^^> once the shop starts working, you can expand too
[17:59] <EriC^^> http://newstechnica.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/ubuntu-desktop-bums.jpg
[17:59] <lotuspsychje> lolz
[18:00] <lotuspsychje> im sure that will bring more customers
[18:00] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: If i may make a suggestion; install some form of snapshot/recovery mini OS as well as the primary, with automated log collection tools, if you want to avoid time-expensive support if or when the user's mess up
[18:01] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: as lordievader suggested something with an image?
[18:02] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: If they're UEFI, *please* install the full EDK v2.x shell into /EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI" so the thing will boot to something if they manage to wipe out the EFI boot entries
[18:03] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: lets hope they dont touch uefi stuff
[18:03] <lotuspsychje> TJ-:  ill try to make them clear when buying :p
[18:03] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: before I retired, I used to own a group of IT companies that did a lot of small-business support contracts, and the thing that made us most profit was ensuring we but tools and procedures in place to efficiently provide support/rollback/recovery when the inevitable calls came in.
[18:03] <TJ-> s/but/put/
[18:04] <lordievader> Just don't give them anyway into root?
[18:04] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: did you do linux computers too?
[18:04] <TJ-> makes not difference, sudo will do just as much damage
[18:04] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: make another user for them by default?
[18:05] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: on the server-side and some workstations but primarily it was Windows. This was back between 1990-2004
[18:05] <lotuspsychje> cool
[18:06] <lordievader> sudo is a way into root, i.e. disable that too :P
[18:06] <lordievader> It was more of a joke than real advice.
[18:06] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: Don't do anything non-standard in the primary installs, but install a safety-net at several levels (boot, mini-OS, snapshoting file-system) to provide protection and fast recovery.
[18:06] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: well most ppl will use GUI and use pass just for the update icon right
[18:07] <lordievader> For updates you need sudo ;)
[18:07] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: good idea
[18:07] <EriC^^> easiest thing to do is make your own grub menu
[18:07] <EriC^^> which you can boot from the boot options ( you add it in efibootmgr ),
[18:07] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: and things like either an rsync or git-commit on a cron job that saves the state or /etc/* and $HOME every day... that can be so invaluable
[18:08] <EriC^^> and it runs an .iso off the hdd that will restore everything and keep /home intact for instance
[18:08] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: also nice idea
[18:09] <EriC^^> call it recovery or restore pc or something in the boot manager
[18:09] <TJ-> EriC^^: GRUB might be dead... which is why I say install the full UEFI shell v2.x to /EFI/BOOT/BOOTX64.EFI so that the PC will boot to a shell of some form no matter what, short of complete disk trashing
[18:09] <EriC^^> TJ-: nah he makes a partition that has only grub and an .iso and it's in the efibootmgr called restore pc
[18:09] <EriC^^> and it launches that efi partition, which has the .iso too
[18:09] <lotuspsychje> but most ppl wont even be able to mess up their box anyways, my 75 y old father works with LTS for years now, never been able to mess it up
[18:09] <TJ-> EriC^^: your ISO idea == my mini-OS ... a self-contained, networked, recovery suite with just the tools needed for efficient (anod possibly remote networked) recovery
[18:10] <EriC^^> the user won't know it's there unless he mounts it manually
[18:10] <EriC^^> yeah, putting it in the efibootmgr would be cool though
[18:10] <EriC^^> they'd just press f9 when the pc starts, and select restore pc and voila
[18:10] <TJ-> EriC^^: Agreed, but not rely on it being there for it to start
[18:10] <EriC^^> oem-like restoration
[18:10] <lotuspsychje> and there's always fresh install i can do in 15min on the ssd
[18:10]  * TJ- nods
[18:11] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: the problem with fresh install is user-data gets into some strange places... so maybe always have the /home/ in a separate file-system.
[18:11] <EriC^^> yeah sure, give him a restore usb he can boot
[18:11] <EriC^^> too
[18:12] <lotuspsychje> well im gonna sell data hd's too, and offer payed backups too
[18:12] <lotuspsychje> ive gotta earn for the store also right
[18:12] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: I found that the majority of the cost in selling PCs is post-sales support, not failed hardware, and especially in a retail environment selling to end-users there are legal obligations that can quickly wipe out your profit margin which is already going to be slim
[18:13] <lotuspsychje> but recovery/iso/uefi is good idea tnx to both!
[18:13] <lotuspsychje> faster restore for me
[18:13] <lotuspsychje> =saves money
[18:14] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: that's it precisely, and possibly more useful word spreads how professional and efficient you are and how amazing your support is
[18:14] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:14] <TJ-> 98% of our new business used to come from recommendations like that... our advertising budget was 0
[18:14] <lotuspsychje> mouth to mouth spread
[18:15] <lotuspsychje> is important for sure
[18:15] <TJ-> mouth to ear :)
[18:15] <lotuspsychje> and i know alot of ppl
[18:15] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: i think if you focus also on gaming you'd make a killing
[18:15] <EriC^^> like lots of people want to get a cheap laptop for their kids with games they can play
[18:15] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: but i dont hear such good things about steam these days
[18:15] <TJ-> open hardware with known good drivers and experience too
[18:16] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: yeah thats gonna be some trouble, i dont want atheros or broadcom chipsets
[18:17] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: would the gamers not feel limited on just steam box?
[18:17] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: i was thinking more along the lines of 10 year olds or so
[18:17] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: all their mates playing high end stuff like the witcher3 or so
[18:17] <EriC^^> cause i notice from the channel some people give their kids ubuntu cause they think they won't screw it up or so
[18:18] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:18] <TJ-> There's a large market for 'supervised' computing for parents to know what their kids are up to on the PC
[18:18] <EriC^^> also most people in the channel are in college
[18:18] <EriC^^> yeah exactly, many times people are like i want the pc to have net access only for 2 hours
[18:18] <EriC^^> or i want to ban this and that
[18:18] <EriC^^> which i get into fights with
[18:18] <EriC^^> lol
[18:19] <lotuspsychje> i really hope someone invents a deamon tools linux version that can load up Iso's universal on any os
[18:19] <EriC^^> anyways lotuspsychje you need to work for both parties, tell the dad how to ban the sites, and slip the kid a porn partition
[18:19] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: then ill sell a pc to father, mother and kid= 3x :p
[18:19] <EriC^^> lotuspsychje: you gotta think ;)
[18:19] <lotuspsychje> haha
[18:19] <EriC^^> lol j/k
[18:20] <lotuspsychje> thats where to cool user part on ubuntu comes on..
[18:20] <lotuspsychje> Dad, jamie,mommy,sister
[18:20] <lotuspsychje> everyone a /home to sleep in :p
[18:21] <ObrienDave> and a /root to wallow in ;P
[18:21] <lotuspsychje> lol
[18:21] <EriC^^> lol
[18:22] <EriC^^> seriously though, you could maybe prepare iso's that are preinstalled with stuff
[18:22] <EriC^^> like one for college students who particular stuff
[18:22] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: i think ill use something like aptoncd perhaps
[18:22] <ObrienDave> wasn't there something like remastersys?
[18:22] <lotuspsychje> EriC^^: but in categories like you say
[18:23] <EriC^^> and one for maybe kids that are 10 or so who their parents want to let them use the pc for a couple hours after homework
[18:23] <lotuspsychje> student,multimedia,gaming
[18:24] <lotuspsychje> if i clean install LTS on a samsung pro 850, will take only 15min with all updates
[18:24] <lotuspsychje> if i aptoncd after on the box could be quick right
[18:24] <lotuspsychje> or download the .debs on a stick perhaps
[18:24] <EriC^^> yeah cause everything is already downloaded i guess
[18:25] <lotuspsychje> or maybe it will change to snappy soon,...who knows what that will bring as advantages
[18:26] <lotuspsychje> lets just hope, the regular users will be smart enough to bare with ubuntu future changes
[18:29] <lordievader> lotuspsychje: For your iso thing, you have mount ;)
[18:30] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: yeah but i mean to install + play the game in any os
[18:30] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: right now, an ubuntu box with high end card cant play GTA5 or so right
[18:30] <lordievader> ?
[18:31] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: would be nice to load the game iso on the raw hardware, not depending on the Os
[18:31] <lotuspsychje> the same windows box can play it normally right
[18:32] <lordievader> You mean let every game have its own os?
[18:33] <lotuspsychje> no, to load up games on any Os on the hardware with a deamon-tools like virtual tool
[18:34] <lotuspsychje> its hard to explain as it probably doesnt exist
[18:34] <lotuspsychje> you cant load GTA5 on a virtualbox windows8 from ubuntu neither right
[18:35] <lotuspsychje> but the box, can handle the game on the hardware (from proper windows)
[18:35] <lordievader> Why not?
[18:35] <EriC^^> it won't have the graphics
[18:35] <lotuspsychje> yeah it will bottleneck
[18:35] <EriC^^> and probably just 1 cpu etc. unless you give it more
[18:35] <lordievader> If you pass through a gpu I see no problem.
[18:36] <lordievader> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17qxEpn4EGs
[18:36] <TJ-> GPU pass-through is pretty well supported with modern CPUs
[18:39] <lotuspsychje> team fortress isnt a high end game
[18:39] <lordievader> Point is, you can game on a vm.
[18:39] <lotuspsychje> yeah i know that lordievader
[18:39] <lotuspsychje> but not the high end games
[18:40] <lotuspsychje> some users video's ive seen can tweak alot of stuff indeed
[18:41] <lotuspsychje> make games like far cry run pretty fine on ubuntu
[18:41] <TJ-> If it were me I'd have a PC with a primary powerful GPU that can be used for games, and a DisplayLink USB adapter for connecting an external screen for the non-gaming GPU :)
[18:42] <lordievader> lotuspsychje: It can, passthrough a powerfull gpu and your done.
[18:42] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: would like to see that on GTA5 or the witcher3 :p
[18:43] <lordievader> Heh, GTA5 seems to run under Wine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb1jZRRrOo4
[18:44] <ObrienDave> why would you want to run any high end game under wine?
[18:44] <lordievader> No idea.
[18:45] <ObrienDave> and, "because you can" is not a valid reason ;P
[18:45] <lotuspsychje> its gta4 and pretty laggy
[18:45] <lordievader> lotuspsychje: So back to your original idea/argument, I still don't get it.
[18:46] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: the idea would be to create a multi-Os tool that can load games on the raw hardware
[18:46] <lotuspsychje> (not depending on the Os) but running on the high end videocard
[18:46] <lordievader> The tool has the drivers for the hardware?
[18:47] <lotuspsychje> not sure how that would work
[18:47] <lotuspsychje> but it surely would be cool
[18:47] <TJ-> lotuspsychje: That's be fine if the games were written to a universal hypervisor interface, but they're not they're written specifically to the latest Windows/DirectX APIs in most cases, with some support for OpenGL
[18:47] <lordievader> You need something to talk to all the hardware... and that everything is different doesn't help. That is why we have os'es.
[18:47] <lordievader> Let the os deal with the hardware ;)
[18:48] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: well wine emulates abit like that right
[18:48] <lordievader> lotuspsychje: What does wine spell again? :P
[18:48] <lotuspsychje> TJ-: so a multi-Os wine tool lookalike that can run game is'os
[18:49] <lotuspsychje> lordievader: bad headache? :p
[18:49] <lordievader> lotuspsychje: Wine is not an emulator ;)
[18:49] <TJ-> wine doesn't emulate it directly implements a large number of the Windows APIs and translates them into equivalent Linux/OpenGL function calls
[18:50] <lotuspsychje> ok, but you get the idea what i mean right
[18:50] <TJ-> that's why running in wine is the same performance as on Windows *if* the APIs are implemented. The problem is, there are *thousands* of APIs and many are undocumented or documented incorrectly, so wine has to even re-implement Windows bugs to make it compatible
[18:51] <lordievader> Sort of. I think if you set out to make something like that that you will get a major headache.
[18:51] <lotuspsychje> maybe in the future, someone bright might invent it
[18:51] <TJ-> Crossover have been doing the commercial side of Wine for a decade or so and they're still playing catch-up :)
[18:51] <lordievader> Does anyone here program on mechanical keyboards?
[18:52] <TJ-> All keyboards are mechanical aren't they?
[18:52] <OerHeks> EriC^^,
[18:52] <OerHeks> baja knows how to paste
[18:52] <EriC^^> OerHeks: i dont follow
[18:53] <EriC^^> you mean he's trolling?
[18:53] <lordievader> TJ-: Appearantly not.
[18:54] <lordievader> TJ-: http://www.keyboardco.com/blog/index.php/2012/12/an-introduction-to-cherry-mx-mechanical-switches/
[18:54] <TJ-> the only non-mechanical i can think of are touchscreens and laser detector types
[18:55] <EriC^^> OerHeks: ?
[18:55] <lordievader> Yeah, ok. Per pure definition all keyboards are mechanical. But usually people refer to keyboards with Cherry MX switches as mechanical keyboards.
[18:55] <TJ-> alll moveable keys have a mechanical action even if that is to press down on a dimple of springy silicon
[18:56] <lordievader> Supposedly they are superior to the regular $20 keyboards.
[18:56] <TJ-> I prefer long-stroke keys, but I also prefer silicon dimples to metal springs
[18:56] <lordievader> I'm considering purchasing one, but they are rather expensive.
[18:57] <TJ-> I use Bluetooth Apple keyboards - the only Apple product I'll buy!
[18:57] <TJ-> I use them because they have the best action I've ever experienced
[18:58] <EriC^^> i'm using a lame genius one right now
[18:58] <EriC^^> i spilled soda on the laptop's keyboard and it's toast haven't gotten a replacement yet
[18:59] <EriC^^> this one sounds like a freakin typewriter :)
[18:59] <OerHeks> :-(
[18:59] <ObrienDave> hot even the original IBM PC keyboard??? with the added mechanical springy sound? LOL
[18:59] <ObrienDave> *not
[18:59] <TJ-> EriC^^: just remove it, wash it out with detergent and hot water, shake it and blow-dry it  for 10 minutes
[19:00] <EriC^^> TJ-: i tried, it worked for one day after the spill, then suddenly it stopped
[19:00] <EriC^^> i tried soaking it in alcohol over night and warm water etc. nothing fixed it
[19:01] <EriC^^> i was pretty appauled as i've done my fair share of spills on numerous laptops and they never gave a problem
[19:01] <TJ-> EriC^^: debris in the silicon dimples usually; I generally strip a keyboard right down to bare PCB once a year to clean it thoroughly
[19:01] <EriC^^> TJ-: i took all the keys off in the end, and washed it alot but it still won't work
[19:02] <TJ-> EriC^^: that's unusual, I wonder if contaminant got into the ribbon connector
[19:02] <EriC^^> i could probably use it without the letters, i got a keyboard when i was about 15 once and it turned out to be a different language one, but i never returned it cause i had the keyboard pretty memorized anyways
[19:02] <ObrienDave> I owe, I owe, so off to work i go ;P *waves*
[19:02] <EriC^^> TJ-: could be, some of the keys were acting up, like giving weird characters
[19:03] <TJ-> Yes, that sounds like shorting across the matrix
[19:04] <TJ-> some keyboards have multiple layers of flexible circuits with apertures where the silicon dimples fit, and contamination between can create new conductive pathways
[19:05] <EriC^^> i see
[19:07] <TJ-> We used to deal with that kind of issue alot, to the point where at larger customers we pre-positioned replacement parts like keyboards so they could simply swap a new one in whilst wo took in, disassembled and cleaned the one they'd spilt coffee in :)
[19:13] <EriC^^> heh :)
[19:14] <EriC^^> pretty neat
[19:14] <TJ-> if you can avoid an emergency on-site call you save a lot of expense
[19:15] <EriC^^> yeah, it's pretty efficient
[19:15] <TJ-> We could do 95% of the support remotely, so the only emergency issues we generally dealt with were failing hard disks and folks pulling out wires
[19:17] <EriC^^> that's nice
[22:17] <JanC> lordievader: you can buy Cherry keyboards for reasonable prices?
[22:23] <OerHeks> v.a. 27 euro http://www.centralpoint.nl/toetsenborden/cherry/