/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2015/07/07/#ubuntu-us-ca.txt

Roguehorsenhaines: Well, I wish I could attend your talk coming up as I will be scrounging for pointers and tips while I work on my first book.02:21
akkI wish I could too -- sounds like a great talk.02:22
nhainesRoguehorse: thanks, and congratulations on your first book!02:23
=== danielg4 is now known as DonkeyHotei
=== cyphase is now known as Guest86150
Roguehorsewhat's the best line spacing to use while writing my drafts? 2? so there is room for editing and notations?16:54
nhainesSingle.16:59
nhainesYou can change to double-space before you print, if you need it.16:59
nhainesOtherwise, most editing and notations are digital.16:59
nhainesIt really depends on what kind of book you're writing and how it's being presented.  :)16:59
pleia2and rules in place for editing, I added "natural" space (a couple newlines after headings, between sections, etc) to my documents in my first chapter and they were all "stop that"17:06
nhainespleia2: don't do that!  :)17:07
pleia2inorite17:07
pleia2so now I keep it simple, and someone else cleans it up where I make a mistake17:07
pleia2and no more random spacing17:07
nhainesYou can do a search and replace, basically s/\n\n/\n/ but ick.  :)17:08
pleia2word doc over here17:08
nhainesYou can do it in LibreOffice too.17:08
pleia2ah :)17:08
nhainesI had a 300 page Word Doc I had to layout for print, and line breaks was a huge hassle.  :)17:10
nhainesIt breaks widow/orphan stuffs, makes for ragged top margins, and makes paragraph spacing less flexible.17:11
pleia2yeah, you're welcome17:12
pleia2:D17:12
nhaines:D17:13
pleia2I'm now using the built in templatey things that come with the doc outlines that my publisher uses17:13
pleia2it's still a bit clumsy, but better17:13
nhainesYup, that's what I'm doing.  It's definitely more simple.17:13
nhainesakk: I owe you an email!17:13
akknhaines: No hurry. Did you give your talk yet?17:14
pleia2thursday!17:14
akkI used the templatey things for my first edition, and it worked okay in OOo.17:15
nhainesNope!  Which means I still have to figure out what to do for a presentation.17:15
* nhaines likes talking, dislikes creating slides.17:15
akkThe second edition was a nightmare because they had me start from these doc files that were generated backouts from the formatted PDFs that went to the printer.17:15
nhainesEep!17:15
pleia2tempting to find some revision-controllable format if I were to do this again, but word docks landing on my lap were just simple and writing a book is already "omg everything is new and I don't know what I'm doing"17:16
akkThey were full of invisible codes that made OOo and Word not like each other17:16
akkso e.g. I'd edit something send it to them and it would crash Word on their end.17:16
nhainesha17:16
pleia2akk: ouch, frustrating17:16
nhainespleia2: pretty much.17:16
akkIf I ever do a third edition with them I want to try something like writing in latex then using a latex-to-word generator.17:17
nhainesI can predict they'd love that.  No, wait.17:17
nhainesI think they switched out the templates on me.  Part of me wants to ask for updated templates, and the other part of me is glad it's not my job to worry about.  :)17:18
nhainesMy concern went from "I want to make sure I remember to change the page headers with the chapter name" to "Oh, it doesn't repeat the header automatically?  The typesetter can do that then."17:25
nhainesI do the first and second pages and the rest is up to somebody else.  What am I paying them 90% of net for anyway?  ;)17:25
pleia2hehe17:26
nhainesRoguehorse: what are you writing?17:34
RoguehorseCHRONIC: Living With Minimal Change Disease - and autobiography  http://www.roguehorse.net/projects.html17:37
darthrobot`Title: [Scott DuBois - Projects]17:37
RoguehorseI'm using LibreOffice 4.2 (default install for Kubuntu)17:38
nhainesOoh17:38
akkWhat's the target? Published as books, ebooks, websites?17:39
pleia2Roguehorse: that's wonderful (the book, obviously, not the disease!)17:39
Roguehorsebook17:40
Roguehorsemaybe ebook17:40
Roguehorsepleia2: Thank you17:40
pleia2"we don't love Amazon" if you're not aiming it at a publisher, a close friend of mine has found a lot of success with her independent books via Amazon's epub and print services, she's winning awards and things now <3 http://www.amazon.com/Christina-Simpson/e/B00CVBDEA417:41
darthrobot`Title: [Amazon.com: Christina Simpson: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle]17:41
pleia2s/if/but if17:42
Roguehorsehow come we don't love Amazon? I LOVE Amazon! My Kindle apps are my best friends!17:43
akkUgh, I definitely don't love kindle spyware. But I'm a hypocrite because I buy from amazon a lot.17:44
Roguehorse=) ...... I understand. I am torn the same way on a constant basis.17:45
pleia2Roguehorse: they treat publishers and signed (non-independent) authors poorly, undercut pricing, etc etc17:45
pleia2they've pretty much have destroyed brick and mortar book industry, which is quite sad17:46
Roguehorseoh....well, they're big. They can be mean and get away with it.17:46
pleia2yep17:46
pleia2I still frequent my local bookstore because it's a nice place to be and I don't mind paying a bit more to lurk there for a bit17:47
RoguehorseI do miss book stores. I remember many a day just hanging out at B&N17:47
pleia2but I do buy books on amazon too :(17:47
pleia2there are also a few used bookstores hanging on in the area, an amazing one for scifi and fantasy in berkeley: http://www.darkcarnival.com/17:48
darthrobot`Title: [Dark Carnival Bookstore]17:48
RoguehorseYeah, still some good indies up around you guys. Down here, not so much.17:49
pleia2plus there's a comic book store and one of the best judaica stores in the bay area on the same block <317:49
akkI never really had a good local non-chain bookstore, so I was all for chains like B&N and now Amazon.17:49
pleia2pretty much need a car to get there, but otherwise it's nice going there17:49
akkEven though I like the *idea* of the great small local bookstore.17:49
RoguehorseI get torn because I also believe in "saving the trees"17:50
pleia2I have a barnes & noble Nook for ebooks, usually novels or books I don't think I'll loan out or read again (vendor+format lock in, I don't expect they'll be accessible in 20 years)17:51
pleia2tech books I have to have paper, and books I want to loan out or read in the future I'll buy paper of17:51
pleia2I've noticed I've been shifting more to paper again, my nightstand is turning into a book mountain again17:52
Roguehorsemakes sense for notes and markup17:52
akkA lot of books aren't available as ebooks. I wish I could get things like the Roadside Geology series as ebooks.17:53
nhainesI pretty much love Amazon.17:53
akkThings I mostly want when traveling but always forget to bring the paper ones.17:53
nhainespleia2: it'd be interesting to chat about KDP.17:53
pleia2I bring my Nook and a couple magazines when traveling, no paper books17:53
pleia2nhaines: KDP?17:53
nhainesKindle Direct Publishing.17:53
pleia2ah :)17:53
akkI usually do that too, pleia217:54
akkthough on my last short trip I was in the middle of a library paperback so I brought it.17:54
Roguehorse\o I'm for that!17:54
nhaines70% of gross with direct pricing control and no-length contracts is better than 8% of net with no price controls.  :)17:54
pleia2nhaines: message CrissiD some time and tell her I sent you (she's the author I linked, co-founder of FOSSCON in Philadelphia too! she's awesome)17:54
akkReal publishers are really screwing authors over on ebook royalties these days17:54
akkso self-publishing or kindle direct or programs like that make a lot of sense.17:54
pleia2akk: yeah17:55
nhainespleia2: I do a lot of ebook formatting for indies.17:55
akkApress's new royalty rates are ridiculous -- the same % for ebooks as for paper! when ebooks have no marginal cost to them!17:55
akkIt used to be 50% for ebooks.17:56
nhainesOh, did it?  I didn't know that.17:56
RoguehorseThis is all stuff I'm going to have to look into17:56
akkyep, ebooks were actually a significant part of the money you could make off a book17:56
RoguehorseA whoile new world!17:56
akkeven though only crazy people bought the ebook, because Apress charges more for the ebook than the paper book costs on Amazon.17:56
Roguehorsewhole17:56
akks/crazy/rich17:57
pleia2I probably should care, but I for real am not writing a tech book for money (my day job pays very well, sales of a tech book wouldn't change my life even if I got all the profit)17:57
nhainesI'm very happy with Apress, but the only reason I'm publishing with them (or anyone) is because I understand that tech books are usually purchased on paper.  Which makes sense.17:57
nhainesAnd yeah, tech books don't sell well.17:57
akkTrue nuff, should never write a book for the money 'cause it ain't worth it for that.17:57
pleia2(though I did get a lawyer to look over my contract and did negotiation, because I'm a grown up)17:57
nhainesRoguehorse: get someone to do a cover for your book. Don't do it yourself.  I can immediately tell your mockup was done in WordArt and wouldn't buy it.  :)17:58
nhainesI can probably refer you to an expensive cover designer or two once the book is in revisions.17:58
Roguehorsewell, I'm broke and things aren't in great shape right now so I'm being as creative as possible17:58
nhainess/expensive/inexpensie17:58
Roguehorsenhaines: k17:58
nhainesYou shouldn't worry about the cover yet.  But that cover will drive away sales.17:59
nhainesIt's clean and one of the better ones I've seen, but no good.  :)17:59
RoguehorseI just wanted something to represent...it's what first came to mind17:59
RoguehorseI did the cover in Inkscape18:01
nhainesIt not bad as a placeholder.  Trust me, I've seen *horrible* things.  I could nitpick a couple typesetting things but it's not terrible.  Just plan for it to be a placeholder only.  :)18:01
Roguehorsek18:01
nhainesI was super excited when I saw Apress added a book cover to my book.  But I'm still like "okay, but I still have to finish the book first."  https://www.amazon.com/author/nathanhaines18:02
darthrobot`[R: www.amazon.com] Title: [Amazon.com: Nathan Haines: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle]18:02
pleia2heeh18:02
nhainesAlthough, to be honest, I sort of miss the old yellow covers.18:03
pleia2I got to pick from 10 or so drafted covers, I don't think it's public yet though18:03
pleia2and the ubuntu book is pretty much the same cover as previous editions https://www.amazon.com/author/elizabethkjoseph18:03
darthrobot`[R: www.amazon.com] Title: [Amazon.com: Elizabeth K. Joseph: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle]18:03
nhainespleia2: ooh  :)18:05
pleia2I also forget what it looks like, I think there were clouds and a big circle thing18:05
nhainesI don't remember why I didn't try to grab "nhaines" as my friendly URL thing.18:05
pleia2heh, I was in the tail end of my name-change-again identity crisis :)18:06
pleia2but I did settle on Elizabeth K. Joseph for a name, so18:06
nhaineshaha.  Well, you can always change it!18:07
pleia2if I change my name again, it's just going to legally be pleia218:07
pleia2;)18:07
nhainesHaha18:07
RoguehorseI love this infographic https://www.dropbox.com/s/52dx02zl90lc0iv/best_jobs_for_introverts.png?dl=018:09
darthrobot`Title: [Dropbox - best_jobs_for_introverts.png]18:09
nhainesHaha.  :)18:11
RoguehorseMakes me feel like at least I'm heading in the right direction18:11
Roguehorse=)18:11
akkLawyers? Don't most lawyers have to interact with people quite a bit?18:14
Roguehorsedepends on the lawyer, most have paralegals that interact for them I think18:14
RoguehorseI did a study once that said th best job for me would be an Archivist18:15
RoguehorseI think I would dig that to be honest. Just not a lot of call for it though.18:16
akkArchivist sounds like a great introvert job.18:17
RoguehorseI think it would be. Good luck finding it though. I think I'm going to be better off digging at app development.18:19
RoguehorseWeb UI/UX.....something like that18:20
Roguehorsemy body is shot ....... I have to jocky a desk18:20
RoguehorseI'm even digging at simple data entry admin stuff just to have income.....whatever18:22
Roguehorsecan't be on my feet all day so customer service is out18:22
Roguehorsemove too slow so manufacturing is out18:23
akkI would think people hiring archivists would look for people with librarian backgrounds.18:24
Roguehorsebut right now, I still can't get to an interview because I'm still too sick and heavily medicated so I'm kind of in a limbo state18:24
akkAnd research librarian would be a fun job too, if you didn't have to walk around reshelving things.18:24
RoguehorseYeah, except libraries are kind of going by the wayside like bookstores18:25
akkAre they? I don't think the libraries where I've lived have fewer librarians now than they used to.18:25
akkThey get more technical questions now, I'm sure, and have to help with the computers.18:26
Roguehorsefrom the last time I was at the local, they're all on open source software too18:26
Roguehorseor at least "free" as much as they can....that's what I saw anyway18:27
RoguehorseI took the library test just before going to work fo AT&T and got selected18:28
RoguehorseI missed my interview.....showed up at the wrong location and ended up at AT&T....(what a huge mistake)18:29
Roguehorsethat job damn near killed me in the first week18:29
akkI think ours still use windows on all the user-visible machines.18:29
nhainesI wish the library used Ubuntu on the computers.  Some old Windows, though.18:30
nhainesWhich is fine.  I don't use them.  :)18:30
RoguehorseI would think Ubuntu in libraries would be very smart18:31
akkIt sure would make sense. Except that librarians, now, are not very tech savvy, so they don't want to learn a new OS.18:32
akknhaines: I use the card catalog ones pretty often. Not the other ones.18:33
RoguehorseI can't even drive commercially because I can't pass the vision test. LOL! OH LORD I'm pitiful.... +(18:33
Roguehorse=(18:33
nhainesakk: I remember when there were card catalogs.18:35
RoguehorseI suppose I could chase down library gigs...I'll have to dig into the county job boards again18:36
akknhaines: Yes, d and I were talking about the term "card catalog" the other day and wondering how many people would understand it.18:36
RoguehorseOh yeah! Dewey Decimal buddy!18:36
akkSort of like "dialing" a phone.18:36
akkI gripe about the poor search in most library online catalogs, but they sure are better than card catalogs.18:36
nhainesThat's for sure.18:37
Roguehorsesee...now I would be in hog heaven building a database like that18:37
nhainesI do miss card catalogs... but probably in the same sense that I miss modems.18:37
nhainesIn that, I miss them because I haven't had to put up with one in 15 years.18:37
Roguehorsecataloging books into a digital archive all day.....oh hell yeah!18:38
akknhaines: There was something cool about that big row of little industrial-looking drawers, made me feel like an insider using it when I was a kid.18:38
akkBut I have to say, nowadays I think the space would be better used for more books, or (second choice) more computers.18:39
nhainesThat's exactly it.18:39
RoguehorseThey were really nice weren't they? All big and wood filled with troves of info.18:39
akkOften they were metal, not wood.18:39
nhainesFor as much as I miss WWIV-based BBSes, I'm not certain I would actually use one.  :)18:40
akkDepends on how posh your library was. :)18:40
RoguehorseAh, I rememeber the big wood ones.18:40
RoguehorseThen there was microfish18:40
Roguehorseugh18:40
akkThat was really cool the first one or two times, then a pain any other time.18:40
akkThe first one or two times I felt like a spy getting to access special tiny miniaturized information.18:41
RoguehorseLOL =)18:41
Roguehorseyeah, well, ya do what ya gotta18:41
nhainesYeah, I always meant to look at microfiche.18:41
Roguehorseyou never used it?18:42
pleia2akk: haha, I don't think I ever grew out of the spy phase (I am old enough that they were used faaar more than the internet in my school library)18:42
nhainesNope, never needed to.18:43
RoguehorseI don't think it's a whole lot different than digging through a Google search really. LOL18:43
Roguehorsejust no links to go anywhere18:43
akkYeah, like a google search if you had to skim with your eyes through files on google's disks one by one instead of searching. :)18:44
pleia2I also prefer ads from 1912 to modern ones18:44
pleia2because so amusing!18:44
Roguehorseactually, a LOT like using eLinks or any other CLI browser18:44
pleia2and they don't blink18:44
pleia2or talk18:44
akkEarly ads can be a lot of fun.18:45
akkI'm sure ours will be just as funny in 50 years.18:46
Roguehorsethe Wendy's tables18:46
nhaineshttp://i.imgur.com/P5cYt72.png18:54
darthrobot`Content type: [image/png] Size: [581319]18:54
Roguehorsesometimes I prefer the left side.....less clutter19:07
Roguehorsenot as visually stimulating but it's like comparing a book to TV really19:08
Roguehorseimo19:08
nhainesYup.  I never use elinks, but I would be comfortable on a text-only terminal.19:16
RoguehorseI don't use it much either, but it's small and if X isn't there..it works19:17
nhainesI used to use lynx.19:18
nhainesUsed to use pine, too.19:18
Roguehorseyeah, there's a few of them over the years19:18
Roguehorseelinks just happens to have bells and whistles19:18
nhaineshttp://i.imgur.com/hkkj0yR.png19:18
darthrobot`Content type: [image/png] Size: [139858]19:18
Roguehorseyeah...I use mutt19:20
nhainesI would, but obviously whatever I used at 14 is the superior software.19:20
Roguehorsehttps://www.dropbox.com/s/dnixgshj4ne7t9f/mutt.png?dl=019:22
darthrobot`Title: [Dropbox - mutt.png]19:22
RoguehorseLOL!19:22
RoguehorseIn my case that would be paper....=)19:23
Roguehorse1984 didn't have a lot of general public email ... great Van Halen albums yeah...but not email19:24
nhainesEvery so often I want to dig out and host Trade Wars 2002 again.  I don't have a v3 license (although I can get one cheap) but I do have a v2 license.19:30
Roguehorsewhat's that? Never heard of it19:34
nhaineshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TradeWars_200219:39
darthrobot`Title: [TradeWars 2002 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia]19:39
nhainesIt was a door game that is sort of a trading sim.19:40
nhainesBut in space!19:40
akkI still use mutt. It's so much faster to get through my mail than waiting for gui clients.19:49

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