[05:15] <Mirv> jamesh: in case you didn't notice the bug comment, please test the fix from silo and report back at bug #1469611
[05:23] <jamesh> Mirv: I don't have any code ready to test it on device: the crash meant I couldn't proceed with the branch.  My other system is still on vivid though, so I can give it a shot on the desktop there.
[05:24] <jamesh> Mirv: is the change also in wily?
[05:24] <Mirv> jamesh: ah, alright, I assumed you might have something to quickly give it to. there's wily PPA also at silo 044 so you can use either
[05:25] <Mirv> so vivid+overlay = silo 043, wily = silo 044
[05:26] <jamesh> I'll test the wily one then, since that's where the build tree for that branch is.
[05:28] <Mirv> ok. you should (currently) get version 5.4.2-1ubuntu2~wily1~test1 from the silo
[05:41] <jamesh> Mirv: okay.  The tests in my thumbnailer branch no longer crash with the silo applied.
[05:41] <Mirv> jamesh: \o/ nice, thanks to tsdgeos
[05:41] <Mirv> jamesh: do you mind pushing to lp:~jamesh/+junk/thumbnailertest or somewhere if I'd try to validate the vivid silo?
[05:42] <jamesh> Mirv: the branch is here: https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesh/thumbnailer/no-fallback-albumart
[05:43] <jamesh> Mirv: note that the tests don't actually pass: I didn't get as far as fixing them up to work with the rest of the changes because they consistently crashed without the Qt fix
[05:44] <Mirv> jamesh: ok, thanks!
[05:44] <jamesh> Mirv: with the branch built, "ctest -R qml --verbose" should complete without a segfault.
[05:45] <Mirv> thanks again
[06:45] <dholbach> good morning
[08:23] <sturmflut2> popey: I'm on arale rc-proposed r50 and still get from vibrate to lockscreen in ~22 seconds. It takes ~50 seconds on your device?
[08:24] <popey> sturmflut2: ogra is the one complaining :)
[08:25] <davmor2> popey: when isn't he
[08:25] <popey> 25 seconds that time
[08:25] <popey> so yeah, not conclusive
[08:30] <sturmflut2> popey: It has consistently been ~22 seconds on my arale, with stable r2, rc-proposed r47 and rc-proposed r50.
[08:36] <ogra_> sturmflut2, well, fpor me it got ~10sec slower today ... (and about 30sec slower on krillin)
[08:36] <sturmflut2> Hmmm
[08:48] <Kniple> Hello people, I do not seem to be able to enter authentication settings for wifi networks on my MX4. Anyone know how or where to do this?
[09:08] <VitaliyKononenko> Hello. Does anybody knows how to port Ubuntu Touch on Lenovo A706? I've asked allready on XDA-Forum and Ubuntu ASK, but nobody helped me with this
[10:16] <zubozrout> Hello, on devel-proposed full shell rotation is available last few weeks. I just want to ask why scopes can't be rotated as well - especially for going to homescreen my screen rotates each time to portrait even though all my running apps are in landscape.
[10:17] <ogra_> zubozrout, thats a design decision (and you should not run devel-proposed)
[10:20] <zubozrout> ogra_ Ok, thanks for the info. Neverhteless I don't think this should stay the way it is. As to devel-proposed, yes, I know it is not tested enough, but I am enjoying daily updates :), so it is ideal for me.
[10:21] <ogra_> zubozrout, its is not only not tested but planned for heavy breakage too ... use rc-proposed thats the daily channel for users
[10:22] <ogra_> zubozrout, there is a bug open for the non rotating shell but i cant find it :/
[10:22] <ogra_> (i dont think it had any feedback from the design team yet though)
[10:23] <zubozrout> ogra_ That is not possible, as I have Nexus 7 LTE (deb) and this device is not officially supported :'(, so I have to use this server: http://system-image.tasemnice.eu/ubuntu-touch/
[10:23] <ogra_> oh, tlak to Tassadar|nym then
[10:23] <ogra_> *talk
[10:23] <ogra_> so he makes a properly usable channel available
[10:23] <Tassadar|nym> #vacation
[10:24] <ogra_> devel will switch to snappy during this cycle ... that will likely make it break for a while
[10:24] <ogra_> (read: in an unbootable way etc)
[10:26] <zubozrout> ogra_ I think I bothered him too much already as some time ago devel-proposed introduced an update to system-image-cli and he had to update his side as well. Hm, and when is a switch to snappy planned?
[10:29] <ogra_> zubozrout, during 15.10 or in early 16.04 ... 15.10 is not supposed to end up on any devices for that reason
[10:30] <zubozrout> ogra_ Hmm, that is fine to know, thank you very much for the info :).
[10:30] <ogra_> bug 1465331
[10:31] <ogra_> there it is :)
[10:33] <zubozrout> orga_ I was just looking for it, thanks :).
[11:15] <opiwahn> do you have a buy recommendation BQ E5 / MX4 at the moment?  Thinking about buying me an ubuntu phone
[11:15] <popey> buy both :)
[11:15] <leko> Hey guys, I'm a proud owner of a Meizu MX4. Question regarding battery life, from a fully charged battery to completely empty takes about 12-16 hours without ever using the phone. Is this a common occurence?
[11:16] <Kniple> leko: there is quite a lot of problems with the battery right now, afaik.
[11:16] <leko> Do you own a device with touch? Do you experience the same issues?
[11:16] <popey> yeah, some battery fixes on the way
[11:16] <popey> yes, i have an mx4
[11:16] <leko> Same problems as above?
[11:16] <popey> battery life isn't what it should be, some analysis has been done and it's being actively worked on
[11:17] <Kniple> The indication of the battery is also awry, as is the charging (which took me well over 24 hours to 100% the first time I charged mine)
[11:18] <ogra_> my battery with the test image for the next OTA currently lasts about 24-30h
[11:18] <Kniple> sounds promising :)
[11:18] <ogra_> so after the next OTA you should see quite an improvement
[11:19] <ogra_> (it used to last between 6-8h for me in the beginning)
[11:19] <Kniple> I have around 10 hours of battery time on mine, then again I don't have a sim card in it and only run it on wifi atm
[11:19] <popey> http://people.canonical.com/~alan/screenshots/device-2015-07-08-121947.png
[11:20] <popey> battery graph looks pretty funky here :)
[11:20] <popey> guess who was playing games at 1AM
[11:20] <Kniple> haha
[11:21] <davmor2> popey: your wife, no your kids, obviously your kids
[11:21] <leko> Good to hear. Not fond of the idea of buying a new battery the second day of ownership.
[11:22] <ogra_> (oh, and note that the 24-30h here are with acrtually using the device ... i havent tried how long it lasts on complete idle ... i would suspect way way longer)
[11:33] <xpheres> hello
[11:34] <xpheres> I would be very happy if anyone test my app and report that is working
[11:34] <xpheres> I have a first bad review because the old versions did not work
[11:34] <xpheres> https://uappexplorer.com/app/analyticaltranslatordemo.xpheresdev
[11:41] <sturmflut2> Uh oh. I just ran into a case where my app would suddenly no longer start on arale rc-proposed r50, see http://paste.ubuntu.com/11840939/ . I restarted the phone and now a reboot takes a minute instead of 22 seconds :/
[11:43] <sturmflut2> No idea where the AppArmor message comes from, I don't manually try to inhibit screen blanking and this used to work like this
[11:52] <ogra_> sturmflut2, i just had a UI hardlock :(
[11:52] <sturmflut2> ogra_: :(
[11:52] <ogra_> sturmflut2, check /var/crash btw
[11:53] <sturmflut2> I will, just have to look for the panda first
[12:03] <svij> panda!
[12:04] <popey> love!
[12:04]  * ogra_ throws some bamboo in the channel
[12:13] <nemo> Anyone here interested in trying to tweak the ubuntu hedgewars package to see if it can be made more touch-friendly?  kenvandine didn't have enough space on his "build tablet" for this yesterday
[12:13] <nemo> basically just want to see if enabling one flag and deletion a line in a config file helps
[12:13] <nemo> *deleting
[12:15] <xpheres> I made a dist-upgrade in my bodhi linux because I can not add repository ppa :phablet-team/tools
[12:15] <xpheres> do you think that after this I will be able to run the emulator?
[12:15] <popey> no
[12:15] <mcphail> nemo: I can have a quick look
[12:15] <popey> the emulator is broken
[12:15] <xpheres> ah ok
[12:15] <popey> nothing you do to your install of ubuntu will fix that
[12:15] <popey> IMO
[12:15] <xpheres> I understand
[12:17] <nemo> mcphail: 'k, well, pretty much would be pulling the ubuntu source package, then adding MOBILE flag to the build and deleting line 43 of hedgewars/options.inc
[12:18] <sturmflut2> It made "click", and somehow the panda can now be wherever you are. Do you feel the love?﻿
[12:18] <nemo> mcphail: pretty much just trying to get the normal frontend to launch the touch-friendly game
[12:18] <mcphail> nemo: currently git cloning the repo. Can I use that?
[12:18] <nemo> otherwise I'm guessing the game is basically unusable
[12:18] <nemo> mcphail: huh... I guess.  I just figured your .deb thingy would be better for repackaging
[12:19] <nemo> mcphail: you mean our periodically updated mirror of the game on github?
[12:19] <mcphail> nemo: says "daily mirror" on your site :)
[12:19] <nemo> heh. daily
[12:19] <nemo> but sure
[12:19] <nemo> besides we haven't been that active
[12:19] <nemo> mcphail: FWIW, here's the current ubuntu-friendly build instructions
[12:19] <nemo> https://code.google.com/p/hedgewars/wiki/BuildingOnLinux
[12:20] <sturmflut2> Doesn't hedgewars use Qt components? or something like that
[12:20] <nemo> sturmflut2: it does yes
[12:20] <nemo> don't you guys have Qt?
[12:20] <ogra_> we do
[12:20] <nemo> aight. np then
[12:20] <nemo> sturmflut2: just for the frontend tho. we have like 4 frontends ☺
[12:20] <nemo> only one for desktop ofc
[12:20] <mcphail> nemo: I see sdl1.2 on the list of deps. That's going to be a problem
[12:20] <nemo> mcphail: not necessary
[12:20] <nemo> mcphail: can build against SDL2. we use that on mobile
[12:21] <nemo> mcphail: those are the desktop build instructions
[12:21] <mcphail> ok
[12:21] <nemo> there are a ton of SDL2 ifdefs in there. will want to pass that flag too
[12:21] <nemo> mobile builds currently use SDL2 and GLES11
[12:22] <mcphail> nemo: you building this as a .click?
[12:23] <nemo> mcphail: totally unfamiliar w/ any ubuntu touch terminology
[12:23] <nemo> kinda ended up here in passing based on separate discussion on #ubuntu-devel about how horribly suited backports is to games ☺
[12:24] <nemo> mcphail: thought it'd be nice to see if we could get something somewhat mobile friendly going again. we'd put a fair amount of time into iOS and Android, but withered due to lack of maintainers
[12:24] <nemo> well... and the iOS dude got demoralise by Apple and iOS users.
[12:24] <mcphail> nemo: going to be hard to get it up and running on the phone unless we can build it as a click, for the launcher and apparmor hooks
[12:25] <nemo> mcphail: what's a click?  but I thought phone could install standard ubuntu packages?
[12:25] <mcphail> nemo: no - debs aren't supported on the phone
[12:25] <nemo> from description sounds like some sort of magic wrapper. chroot/env isolation?
[12:25] <nemo> ogra_: huh. you didn't mention that ☹
[12:26] <mcphail> nemo: not quite a chroot, but strict app confinement with limited access to directories etc
[12:26] <nemo> well that decreases my interest in ubuntu touch a whole hell of a lot :-/
[12:26] <nemo> get more functionality w/ the ubuntu chroot on my nexus 5
[12:26] <mcphail> nemo: just a minor hurdle :)
[12:26] <ogra_> nemo, just needs re-packaging as click package, thats trivial
[12:26] <ogra_> nemo, and you can use debs ... they are just not supported :)
[12:26] <nemo> mcphail: yeah, but the attractive thing was access to all the .debs
[12:27] <mcphail> nemo: the idea with a click package is to bundle all the libs (which you can extract from the .debs) in the package
[12:27] <nemo> mcphail: when I was raving about ubuntu touch to everyone it was really about you guys coming online w/ entire ecosystem at your fingertips, even if there are integration probs
[12:27] <ogra_> for development you can make the device writable and install as many debs as you want ... just dont expect the phone to not break due to that
[12:27] <nemo> mcphail: huh... dll hell?
[12:27] <mcphail> nemo: no - it removes dll hell completely
[12:28] <nemo> mcphail: so... each app has its own copy of, oh, openssl that must be updated if there's a vulnerability?
[12:28] <mcphail> nemo: yes, but each copy of ssl is operating in strict confinemtnt to prevent damage
[12:28] <nemo> meh
[12:28] <nemo> mcphail: I was thinking specifically of the reaction to dll hell
[12:28] <mcphail> nemo: don't knock it until you've tried it :)
[12:28] <nemo> mcphail: that is, under windows, people distributing it all with the app
[12:29] <nemo> resulting in bloat and stray versions of libs everywhere
[12:29] <nemo> mcphail: tried it. hated it.
[12:29] <nemo> but hey, do what you guys want ☺
[12:29] <nemo> and space is cheap right?
[12:29] <mcphail> nemo: bloat - yes. Stray versions - no
[12:29] <nemo> the update thing, eh, well, not my problem
[12:29] <nemo> mcphail: if every app has its own ssl lib, that's stray versions in my book
[12:30] <nemo> or own copy of lua52 or whatever
[12:30] <mcphail> nemo: the trust model in modern Ubuntu is very different
[12:30] <nemo> oh, I get why you are doing it
[12:30] <nemo> I just dislike it.
[12:30] <nemo> meh. neither here nor there ☺
[12:31] <nemo> mcphail: just wanted to see if touch could be easily enabled. I'm just hoping that it can... the main problem could be people having made iOS or Android assumptions in the IFDEFs
[12:31] <mcphail> nemo: there are huge benefits in terms of package management and curation
[12:31] <nemo> so... if a critical vulnerability in ssl is discovered
[12:31] <ogra_> nemo, many actual upstreams we work closely with (like libreoffice, mozilla, chromium) all ship their own libs already
[12:31] <nemo> every single app must be updated
[12:32] <nemo> instead of just one lib
[12:32] <nemo> ogra_: yeah. that's a necessity for windows. when we package hedgewars for windows we do that
[12:32] <ogra_> nothing of the above uses system lib packages
[12:32] <nemo> that's 'cause their package management sucks natively
[12:33] <ogra_> and while click is pretty close to what you see on windows, th next iteration (snappy) will handle all this a bit better
[12:33] <ogra_> it wont take the responsibility away from the package creator to keep critical libs up to date though
[12:33] <nemo> ogra_: there seems to be a huge difference between a few major gigantic apps that provide almost their own env bundling libs and every single piddling little app on the system doing it
[12:33] <ogra_> but if even you mess up it wont do any harm to the system
[12:33] <ogra_> (only to your app)
[12:34] <nemo> but... yeah, not my prob, apart from being one more reason I'm suddenly less enamoured of this
[12:34] <ogra_> (i.e. by keeping an insecure ssl version)
[12:34] <nemo> easy to say until someone breaks out or uses the vulnerability to trick user into a higher level information leak
[12:34] <nemo> aaaaanyway ☺
[12:35] <mcphail> nemo: doe your app specifically capture SDL Touch Events or does it rely on Mouse events being translated as touch?
[12:36] <ogra_> nemo, there is no way to break out of that ... it uses seccomp and apparmor, an app only has access to certain syscalls and only to the dirs it ships underneath its apps dir
[12:37] <nemo> mcphail: touch events
[12:37] <nemo> mcphail: assuming touch is enabled
[12:37] <nemo> mcphail: for desktop uses mouse events
[12:38] <nemo> mcphail: what I wanted to see is if simply enabling the MOBILE flag and disabling HWLIBRARY under that flag would be sufficient
[12:38] <mcphail> nemo: good. Just updating my build chroot
[12:38] <nemo> mcphail: current frontend launches engine as a separate process. we have a new frontend in the works that runs as a library too, but otherwise the only library frontends are for iOS and Android
[12:39] <nemo> mcphail: could set defaults to ensure the game launched as a full-screen window for better experience there.  or outright fullscreen, but that might be bad on a phone
[12:40] <nemo> by "in the works" I'd say "not soon" unc0rr's been working on it on and off, but he has about as much free time as me lately
[12:40] <mcphail> nemo: outright fullscreen is good for Ubuntu. Rotation is the issue
[12:40] <nemo> I keep meaning to poke at it, but haven't. maybe after next release
[12:40] <nemo> hm
[12:40] <nemo> mcphail: ok. we definitely don't want rotation
[12:40] <nemo> game only really plays well in landscape mode
[12:41] <mcphail> nemo: this is currently a stumbling block
[12:41] <mcphail> nemo: been hacking away at this
[12:41] <ogra_> mcphail, you can force landscape now
[12:41] <ogra_> in the .desktop file
[12:41] <nemo> mcphail: on iOS and Android we used overlays.  that wouldn't be available unfortunately. that could be a problem. that's why I was thinking a window would help so that at least you could easily quit
[12:41] <mcphail> ogra_: doesn't work properly for SDL apps
[12:41] <ogra_> oh
[12:41] <mcphail> nemo: you can quit by swiping in Ubuntu
[12:42] <nemo> 'k
[12:42] <nemo> hope that doesn't mess up game touch interaction
[12:42] <mcphail> nemo: shouldn't do
[12:42] <jrbt> Yo
[12:43] <mcphail> nemo: in terms of install dirs, are we only looking at the binary install dir and the data install dir?
[12:43] <nemo> mcphail: for the install yeah
[12:43] <mcphail> nemo: and what directories are written/read during play?
[12:44] <nemo> mcphail: data dir, and ~/.hedgewars
[12:44] <nemo> mcphail: ~/.hedgewars/Data is for extra stuff user might install,   ~/.hedgewars/Logs is for game log (might be turned off on mobile should check)
[12:44] <mcphail> nemo: is ~/.hedgewars hard coded?
[12:44] <nemo> yessss :-/
[12:44] <nemo> but. lemme see what MOBILE flag currently sets
[12:44] <mcphail> nemo: can it be adjusted to use a standard XDG path?
[12:44] <nemo> maybe should just set the touch flags directly
[12:45] <nemo> mcphail: that's been a todo item ☺
[12:45] <nemo> just has been kinda low priority
[12:45] <nemo> QTfrontend/main.cpp currently hardcodes that path btw
[12:45] <nemo> oh wait
[12:45] <mcphail> nemo: ha! - we need it for the app confinement. Your app won't be able to read/write ~/.hedgewars by default
[12:45]  * nemo smacks nemo
[12:45] <nemo> stupid nemo
[12:45] <nemo> mcphail: I keep forgetting we allow overriding those on commandline
[12:45] <mcphail> nemo: perfect
[12:46] <nemo> we did that for the windows portable builds initially
[12:46] <nemo> --config-dir and --data-dir
[12:46] <mcphail> nemo: is --data-dir the default (package) data dir or the optional user data dir?
[12:47] <nemo> package data dir
[12:47] <mcphail> ok
[12:47] <nemo> user data dir is considered subdir of config dir
[12:48] <jrbt> Do you know if a ubuntu touch design web framework exist?
[12:48] <jrbt> I love the ubuntu apps design instead of material design
[12:49] <mcphail> nemo: will do some domestic chores for 10 minutes while this chroot update. I'll ping you when ready?
[12:49] <nemo> mcphail: https://code.google.com/p/hedgewars/source/browse/hedgewars/options.inc#42
[12:49] <nemo> kk
[12:50] <nemo> mcphail: note line 64 btw ☺
[12:51] <nemo> The SDL stuff is kinda WTFly setup here ☺   https://code.google.com/p/hedgewars/source/browse/hedgewars/SDLh.pas
[12:51] <nemo> (since it is a pascal app, had to replicate a bunch of .h definitions)
[12:59] <mcphail> nemo: ok, ready to go. What tweaks and build flags do you want
[12:59] <nemo> mcphail: for starters just MOBILE and deleting line 43 in hedgewars/options.inc
[13:00] <nemo> hoping that'll be enough...
[13:00] <mcphail> ok, give me a while. I'll build and roll it into a .click
[13:00] <koda> i can help with that regard if needed :)
[13:00] <nemo> koda!
[13:00] <nemo> mcphail: koda here did our iOS port long long ago
[13:00] <mcphail> excellent!
[13:02] <mcphail> nemo: so we're deleting "{$DEFINE HWLIBRARY}"?
[13:02] <koda> yes
[13:02] <koda> mobile enabled hwlibrary because we never thought of running hwengine as a separate process
[13:02] <koda> setting mobile will set use_touch_interface which will then enable SDL2
[13:09] <mcphail> hmm - build script isn't finding the minor sdl libraries. Do you use pkg-config to search for these?
[13:12] <koda> we use cmake but i am not familiar how findsdl works there
[13:12] <koda> probably everything needs to be updated to findsdl2 and co.
[13:12] <mcphail> it is finding the main sdl2 lib but not sdl_ttf etc
[13:13] <koda> hmm
[13:13] <koda> try editing hedgewars/SDLh.pas
[13:13] <popey> pas?
[13:13] <popey> hedgewars is pascal?
[13:13] <koda> and add "2" where needed in the list of libraries
[13:13] <koda> popey: yep
[13:13] <popey> sweet
[13:13] <popey> not touched pascal for about 20 years
[13:14] <nemo> popey: well. the standard desktop frontend is qt/c++, the engine is pascal and the server is haskell
[13:14] <nemo> just to keep life interesting
[13:14]  * ogra_ would have said 30 :P
[13:14] <nemo> popey: I wanna port engine to Rust ☺
[13:14] <popey> I am old
[13:14] <popey> ogra_ is very old
[13:14] <nemo> popey: until Hedgewars, I had not touched Pascal iiiin...
[13:14] <ogra_> +1
[13:14]  * nemo counts
[13:14]  * ogra_ shakes his cane
[13:14] <popey> hehe
[13:15] <popey> it was all trees round here you know!
[13:15] <nemo> hm... I did start Hedgewars a long time ago
[13:15] <nemo> ok. 20 years
[13:15] <popey> you're the original dev of hedgewars?
[13:15] <popey> blimey
[13:15] <nemo> popey: no. unc0rr is
[13:15] <nemo> I just started screwing w/ it a long time ago
[13:15] <nemo> January 2009 I think
[13:15] <popey> i wish I'd discovered open source 20 years ago
[13:16] <popey> I first used Pascal on an Epson 8086 PC (with turbo button). Got the floppy disk from a mail-order catalog
[13:16] <popey> happy days
[13:16] <mcphail> still hitting http://paste.ubuntu.com/11841357/
[13:16]  * koda started a few months after nemo
[13:16] <koda> and i never touched pascal before
[13:16] <nemo> mcphail: now what would be neat is if we could automatically switch between hwengine for touch, and hwengine for desktop, based on whether phone was using bluetooth/docking or something ☺
[13:17] <nemo> mcphail: http://galaxynote5edge.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Galaxy-Note-5-Laptop-Dock.jpg
[13:17] <mcphail> nemo: :)
[13:17] <mcphail> anyone know if there is a pascal cross compiler for the chroots?
[13:19] <mcphail> otherwise I don't think I'm going to get this built
[13:19] <popey> what pascal compiler does upstream use?
[13:19] <nemo> mcphail: well LocutusOfBorg is currently building just fine for ubuntu on arm
[13:19] <popey> can't you use the same one?
[13:19] <nemo> guess I can ask him what he's doing
[13:19] <nemo> mcphail: for the official ubuntu packages...
[13:19] <popey> and if it's in the archive, check the build log?
[13:19] <nemo> hrm. that's basically what popey is saying ☺
[13:20] <popey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hedgewars
[13:20] <popey> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/hedgewars/0.9.21.1-5/+build/7390941 armhf build
[13:20] <popey> -- Check for working Pascal compiler: /usr/bin/fpc
[13:20] <popey> fpc - Free Pascal - SDK suite dependency package
[13:20] <mcphail> popey: problem is I need a cross compiler because I'm building in a click chroot rather than on device
[13:21] <popey> er
[13:21] <sturmflut2> Compiling Pascal programs for a phone. We truly live in the future
[13:21] <popey> how is that any different that the way we build stuff now?
[13:21] <popey> oh, not a schroot?
[13:21] <nemo> https://code.google.com/p/hedgewars/wiki/BuildingForAndroid  used a custom build of fpc
[13:21] <koda> for a phone and ON the phone
[13:21] <nemo> but I'm not sure that is still necessary
[13:21] <nemo> those instructions are several years old
[13:22] <mcphail> popey: if you're building a C program in the click, it doesn't use default gcc or gcc:armhf - it uses a cross compiler so you canb build arm binaries on an amd64 machine. Need the same for pascal
[13:22] <nemo> mcphail: scroll down to Freepascal on that page
[13:23] <nemo> I thought you were building on an arm device. sorry
[13:23] <nemo> like, oh, a chromebook or something ☺
[13:23] <nemo> or kenvandine using a nexus 7...
[13:23] <mcphail> nemo: I'll search the repos for a cross compiler first :)
[13:24] <kenvandine> my old grouper :)
[13:25] <nemo> mcphail: WRT SDL2 libs thingy, did you glance over the search paths in cmake_modules/FindSDL2.cmake ?
[13:26] <nemo> I'm guessing those are a problem?
[13:26] <mcphail> nemo: no -haven't looked at those yet. Assumed it would use pkg-config
[13:27] <nemo> ummm 😕
[13:27] <nemo> SET(SDL2_SEARCH_PATHS ~/Library/Frameworks /Library/Frameworks /usr/local /usr /sw /opt/local /opt/csw /opt)
[13:28] <nemo> this game is regrettably a little... idiosyncratic
[13:29] <mcphail> must be picking up my libsdl2-dev package on the host system. I think I'll cheat and install the dev packages on the host system rather than tweak the paths
[13:39] <oSoMoN> kenvandine, would it make sense to have a default "clipboard" peer for the content hub that would allow copying whatever is being shared to the clipboard
[13:39] <oSoMoN> ?
[13:39] <kenvandine> ah... there is plans for something like that
[13:39] <kenvandine> a pasteboard, i think is what tvoss called it
[13:40] <tvoss> oSoMoN, yup, it would :)
[13:40] <kenvandine> oSoMoN, and it will be integrated with the content-hub
[13:40] <tvoss> oSoMoN, I'm finalizing a writeup for that
[13:40] <kenvandine> tvoss, cool, i've been waiting for that :)
[13:40] <oSoMoN> excellent
[13:40] <tvoss> oSoMoN, kenvandine it's  more like a content hub v2, that's why it takes a little longer
[13:43] <mcphail> nemo: I think I'm hitting a brick wall here.
[13:44] <nemo> koda: ↑
[13:44] <koda> what's up
[13:44] <nemo> mcphail: yeah, for some reason I thought you were just going to take the ubuntu arm package and toss in a flag :-/
[13:44] <nemo> didn't realise it would require a whole fresh new build against our sources
[13:45] <nemo> and I guess I didn't consider the SDL2 situation, since I figured that would work same as SDL1.2 so long as you had it installed on the arm device
[13:45] <mcphail> nemo: I think I'd need to build on an ARM device
[13:47] <mcphail> nemo: actually, might be able to force the sdl2/1.2 issue. The minor library APIs are identical between SDL2 and 1.2, aren;t they?
[13:47] <nemo> mcphail: AFAIK yes
[13:47] <nemo> well... the ones we use
[13:49] <mcphail> aaaaaaargh - just destroyed my chroot...
[13:49] <mcphail> (forgot to append :armhf to the apt-get...)
[13:49] <nemo> O_o
[13:50] <kenvandine> popey, ContentType.Events has landed in wily and vivid + overlay
[13:50] <mcphail> brain is spinning with all this :(
[13:50] <nemo> mcphail: welll, you miiight want to back up the .hg or .git dir if you were doing this from our sources instead of the ubuntu upstream
[13:50] <nemo> mcphail: since our full repo is... kinda huge
[13:50] <nemo> due to ogg/png
[13:50] <nemo> (if you're starting from scratch)
[13:50] <mcphail> nemo: don't worry - the repo is fine!
[13:54] <mcphail> nemo: needed an excuse to update to a 15.04 chroot anyway. This will probably take a couple of hours...
[13:54] <nemo> no rush... all our mobile everything has languished for years
[13:55] <mcphail> ooh - looks as if I have one already...
[13:56] <popey> (probably should move this porting stuff to -app-devel really)
[13:57] <mcphail> yep
[13:58] <nemo> heh. I just came here 'cause ogra_ recommended. and... man, there are a lot of #ubuntu*...
[14:05] <ogra_> nemo, its a hue community :)
[14:05] <ogra_> *huge
[14:08] <nemo> alis says 39 ubuntu channels w/ more than 50 participants. woah
[14:10] <sturmflut2> beuno: Is there a design document for the future features of the app store, especially the device UI?
[14:11] <ogra_> sturmflut2, there is someone working on a snap store for devices
[14:11] <ogra_> i doubt the old click store will see many new features
[14:11] <sturmflut2> ogra_: Ah, there will be a new one built from scratch?
[14:12] <ogra_> not sure, i just know someone works on it
[14:12] <ogra_> might be from scratch, might be re-using some of the click store
[14:12] <sturmflut2> ogra_: Any ETA for the snappyification of the phone images?
[14:12] <ogra_> nope ... during 15.10 i guess
[14:13] <ogra_> direct replacement will surely still take a while
[14:13] <ogra_> (that might become our most exciting OTA ever :) )
[14:13] <sturmflut2> ogra_: So basically it's "You'll get a shiny new store when your phone is switched to snappy, which is probably somewhere at the end of this year."
[14:14] <ogra_> pmcgowan, did you see bug 1472507 yet ? seems we have some pretty serious crashers on boot with the last image
[14:15] <ogra_> sturmflut2, well, the click store is indeed still maintained til then ... and it might get some new features, not sure
[14:16] <sturmflut2> ogra_: according to beuno someone with a little time on his hands is working on the search result sort order, but apart from that the store scope hasn't been seen an update for months I think.
[14:17] <ogra_> yeah
[14:17] <ogra_> it does the job ...
[14:17] <ogra_> (undoubtly it could be a lot better indeed)
[14:18] <beuno> sturmflut2, well, we had to pause that again
[14:18] <beuno> we know now how to tackle it
[14:19] <beuno> sturmflut2, none of the clients will be on the clients, though
[14:19] <beuno> it will all be server-side results order
[14:19] <pmcgowan> ogra_, oh crap
[14:19] <ogra_> pmcgowan, jibel broke it down to two other bugs for unity8 and -dash  i think
[14:20] <ogra_> it doesnt seem to cause issues after boot, though i had one strange complete hard UI hang today
[14:20] <pmcgowan> I see crash files also
[14:22]  * ogra_ really dislikes the new networking icons ... with every minute more 
[14:23] <ogra_> and volume control only showing two steps now ... really ?
[14:23] <sturmflut2> beuno: Okay, thanks for letting us know. Is there a design document for the snappy store scope? I am asked quite a bit about new features for the existing one, and it would be nice to know if some of the requests will be implemented in the new store., and it would be
[14:23] <beuno> sturmflut2, that's an alecu question
[14:23] <sturmflut2> s/, and it would be//
[14:23] <sturmflut2> To alecu I go then!
[14:27] <alecu> hi sturmflut2!
[14:28] <sturmflut2> alecu: \o/
[14:28] <sturmflut2> alecu: So tell me all the secrets of the snappy store ;)
[14:28] <alecu> sturmflut2: we don't have a design document for the snappy scope yet. We are reusing the same design specs we had for the click scope
[14:29] <sturmflut2> alecu: So the snappy scope will be exactly the same as the click scope in the beginning?
[14:29] <alecu> sturmflut2: yes
[14:30] <alecu> sturmflut2: I was looking up for the existing designs for the click scope, but they don't seem to be public
[14:31] <alecu> sturmflut2: I'll ask around to see if they can be published, but anyway, they look 98% like the current click store scope
[14:33] <kyrofa> alecu, hello!
[14:33] <younix> hello every one.
[14:34] <sturmflut2> alecu: What is the correct channel for user feedback about the store scopes? Launchpad "Wishlist" bugs?
[14:34] <younix> i have a nexus 4 device and i want to install ubuntu-touch 15.10 on it.
[14:35] <dobey> sturmflut2, alecu: well i wouldn't think of the design as "the click scope design" and "the snappy scope design". the installed apps scope design is for the installed apps scope, and the app store scope design is for the app store. click and snappy are just implementation details underneath that
[14:35] <ogra_> younix, https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/start/ubuntu-for-devices/installing-ubuntu-for-devices/
[14:36] <younix> i have downloaded boot,recovery and touch images from cdimage.ubuntu.com but i don't know how to install ubuntu-touch from this images.
[14:36] <ogra_> younix, that is not how it works
[14:36] <ogra_> see the url above
[14:37] <younix> ogra_, i followed the instructions and installed ubuntu 15.04 but i want to install 15.10.
[14:38] <ogra_> younix, why ? it cant make calls and will likely break in other aspects too
[14:38] <ogra_> 15.10 is not intended to ever land on enduser devices
[14:39] <ogra_> if you want the latest and greatest phone development (in a usable state) use the rc-proposed channel
[14:39] <ogra_> that is 15.04 based with most phone packages coming from a separate archive
[14:39] <ogra_> (where the development happens)
[14:40] <younix> oh thanks ogra_ :)
[14:40] <ogra_> anyway, if you insist on 15.10 you can just switch to the devel-proposed channel ... you can do that on the device without reinstall
[14:40] <ogra_> (using system-image-cli with the --switch command ... see --help for more info)
[14:49] <alecu> sturmflut2: please open any such bugs about the store scopes in the click scope: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity-scope-click/+filebug
[14:49] <sturmflut2> alecu: \o/
[14:50] <alecu> sturmflut2: if they are about UX improvements, I'll ask the design team to consider solutions to them
[14:52] <sturmflut2> alecu: We have quite some people asking for UI improvements, I'll pass that information on. Thanks a lot
[14:52] <alecu> sturmflut2: thank you
[14:53] <alecu> sturmflut2: and if you open any bugs about that, a mail to the phone mailing list would be useful too
[14:57] <sturmflut2> alecu: I think I might go through the store discussions we've had on the ML and check if there are already bugs open for the issues mentioned, then maybe open a couple of new ones, make a list and mail them to the ML
[14:58] <sturmflut2> alecu: Might take a while though
[15:53] <brunch875> new icons are... strange
[16:28] <brunch875> the app updates aren't downloading. Are the servers THAT busy?
[16:30] <ogra_> brunch875, should work again ... there was a small glitch in space and time ...
[16:30] <sturmflut2> ogra_: I updated to arale rc-proposed r51, and I think I share your hate for the new indicator icons.
[16:31] <ogra_> i didnt say hate :)
[16:31]  * ogra_ wouldnt go that far 
[16:31] <ogra_> but only two steps in the volume icon now ... and i find all the network icons very ugly
[16:31] <brunch875> ogra_: stop using the servers to massively torrent
[16:31] <ogra_> the others are okayish
[16:33] <sturmflut2> ogra_: The "Notifications" icon doesn't fit in. All the others have an area filled with white, this one is just white lines filled with black.
[16:34] <ogra_> until you get a notification :)
[16:34] <ogra_> (it should just be hidden if there is nothin to notify about)
[16:34] <sturmflut2> So it no longer turns green?
[16:34] <ogra_> it turns green
[16:34] <ogra_> becoming filled with green :)
[16:35] <sturmflut2> Phew
[16:35] <sturmflut2> brunch875: Hm, you're right, app updates don't seem to download.
[16:35] <ogra_> they should again ... weird
[16:37] <popey> store is busted
[16:37] <popey> paging beuno
[16:38] <sturmflut2> It's probably because all those people are installing Panda Love
[16:38] <popey> yes. that's it
[16:39] <zubozrout> Hi, I've seen some comment on SDL apps that should just work on Ubuntu Phone without too much digging. Nice example are Neverball and Neverputt, but I have no idea what it takes to make such app working. Are there any guides or more detailed information on how to accomplish that? Thank you very much.
[16:39] <popey> i wonder if panda love gets more love than snowball world because sturmflut2 spammed that stupid panda about
[16:39] <popey> zubozrout: poke mcphail
[16:40] <zubozrout> popey Thanks :)
[16:40] <sturmflut2> popey: You might hate the panda, but he will always love you.
[16:40] <brunch875> the new icons look like alien technology
[16:41] <popey> stupid panda
[16:41] <ogra_> brunch875, yeah, we hired some in the design team :P
[16:41] <beuno> it's unbusted, no?
[16:41] <beuno> it was busted for a bit, popey
[16:41] <popey> still is here
[16:41] <ogra_> beuno, seems still broken
[16:41] <popey> nothing downloads
[16:41] <popey> (not just me)
[16:41] <brunch875> still busta for me
[16:42] <ogra_> popey, tried a reboot just for fun ?
[16:42] <ogra_> i wonder if download-manager hhangs in the back
[16:42] <popey> multiple devices
[16:42] <beuno> k, escalating again
[16:43] <popey> and yes, rebooted
[16:44] <kenvandine> bfiller, ContentType.Events also landed for vivid, not just wily
[16:45] <bfiller> kenvandine: you sure? didn't see it in the latest image
[16:45] <kenvandine> it landed 5 hours ago :)
[16:45] <bfiller> kenvandine: ok cool
[16:45] <kenvandine> bfiller, i confirmed it's in the overlay ppa
[16:45] <bfiller> great
[17:07] <peat-psuwit> Excuse me, what's the config for the "generic" device?
[17:14] <Isotop7> on monday i got my white arale...is ota 2 (which was installed right after i powered it up) the same as ota 4 for mako, etc? Am i able to switch to a proposed channel like i can with my mako?
[17:14] <ogra_> yes
[17:35] <Isotop7> ogra: yes regarding both of my questions?
[17:39] <ogra_> yes
[17:39] <ogra_> :)
[17:41] <Isotop7> oh okay...thanks...is there a way to backup my device before jumping channels via the recovery? when i try to get in it (volume up+power) i just see a ubuntu-purple screen with an ubuntu logo in the middle of it...
[17:42] <ogra_> via recovery ?
[17:42] <ogra_> why would you do that ?
[17:42] <ahayzen> Are click updates sitting at 0% when trying to download+install for anyone else when on the latest rc-proposed image?
[17:43] <ogra_> sudo system-image-cli --switch=the/channel/you/want -vvv
[17:43] <ogra_> ahayzen, see backlog ...
[17:43] <ogra_> server issue
[17:43] <Isotop7> okay...but if i would like to go back? is it also capable of that?
[17:43] <ahayzen> ah cool known about but system updates are cool it seems :-)
[17:44] <ogra_> just the same with the old channel name
[17:44] <Isotop7> thats marvelous :)
[17:44] <Isotop7> thank you, ogra!
[18:02] <popey> beuno: any update on the store?
[18:03] <beuno> popey, it's up, except for 27 apps
[18:03] <beuno> fixing those
[18:03] <popey> oh, neat
[18:04] <beuno> popey, looks like fixed just now
[18:04] <popey> \o/ thanks
[18:27] <Isotop7> while switching channel my arale is stuck with 'running group download refactor'
[18:27] <Isotop7> ?
[18:29] <ogra_> Isotop7, did you use -vvv ?
[18:29] <Isotop7> yes :)
[18:30] <ogra_> an dis the device online via wlan ?
[18:30] <ogra_> (i thought -vvv makes it print more ... )
[18:30] <Isotop7> it is :)
[18:30] <ogra_> well, it likely still downloads but doesnt print output
[18:31] <Isotop7> http://imgur.com/JvRcVMU
[18:31] <ogra_> as long as it doesnt print errors all should bee fine
[18:31] <ogra_> just give it some time for the download
[18:31] <Isotop7> is this command the same as invoking 'ubuntu-device-flash' on the connected host?
[18:31] <Isotop7> k
[18:32] <ogra_> it is similar
[18:33] <Isotop7> k
[18:36] <Isotop7> is my command 'sudo system-image-cli --switch=ubuntu-touch/rc-proposed/meizu.en valid? command stopped with timeout :/
[18:36] <Isotop7> im guessing im doing something horribly wrong :D
[18:37] <ogra_> yes, you use sudo su
[18:37] <ogra_> dont do that
[18:37] <Isotop7> okay....env problems?
[18:37] <ogra_> indeed
[18:38] <Isotop7> :facepalm:
[18:42] <tathhu> rip
[18:44] <tathhu> http://imgur.com/ckJzdZb any idea what game this is? :-)
[18:44] <ahayzen> tathhu, https://uappexplorer.com/app/com.ubuntu.developer.ken-vandine.pathwind
[18:45] <tathhu> ahayzen: thanks <3
[18:56] <Isotop7> its stuck...guess im waiting for ota 3!
[18:57] <ogra_> or use ubuntu-device-flash .... just dont use the --wipe or --bootstrap options ... then your data shouldnt be touched
[19:14] <Niedersachse> Hello from the Rhine river! Are you experienced with Ubuntu Touch? Can you recommend it - say, on a Google Nexus 10 - for an interested newbie?
[19:18] <Niedersachse> Anybody there? Anyone with some Ubuntu Touch experience?
[19:19] <ogra_> Niedersachse, pe a little patient, not everyone is watching IRC all the time (and it is more busy during european workdays)
[19:19] <ogra_> *ba a little
[19:19] <ogra_> bah
[19:19] <ogra_> *be
[19:21] <xhoch3> popey, when using the Ubuntu Phone, we noticed there is a quite distinctive lag in the animations, is this a known problem?
[19:22] <xhoch3> from a user perspective, this is something very hindering when trying to show the Ubuntu Phone to other people, usually the first comment is "god, this lags so much, this is an 8-core??"
[19:22] <xhoch3> I really wish I could help fix that/determine the source for the problem
[19:24] <kenvandine> xhoch3, are you talking about arale (the meizu)?
[19:24] <xhoch3> yes
[19:24] <kenvandine> i know the video driver has some issues
[19:24] <kenvandine> i don't see much lag on mine though
[19:24] <xhoch3> I had the Aquaris and it lagged a bit, but I thought it was because of the poor hardware
[19:24] <kenvandine> most noticable when flicking the apps scope
[19:25] <ogra_> it is very laggy ... the HW could fly with a better driver
[19:25] <xhoch3> oh, there is a lot, try the apps overview and move the finger slowly, it looks like 10-15 fps
[19:25] <Niedersachse> Thanks ogra, will do (I'm trying this out for the 1st time)
[19:25] <xhoch3> it almost jumps for frame to frame
[19:26] <xhoch3> are there any details? I think this is a very important thing, given that if affects just everything
[19:26] <kenvandine> xhoch3, i don't think there's anything we could do about that, the vendor needs to improve the driver :/
[19:27] <xhoch3> kenvandine, I thought maybe we can try what's possible, maybe contact the driver vendor?
[19:27] <xhoch3> what is it exactly? I haven't had a deeper look
[19:28] <xhoch3> PowerVR G6200 MP4
[19:28] <ogra_> Niedersachse, tablets are currently not really in development focus ... and the nexus10 specifically doesnt get much looked at ... so your mileage might vary
[19:40] <Niedersachse> Thanks ogra, that's good to know (althougn a pity, I think) - I was hoping to be among the happy crowd of "early adopters" after buying my first tablet and trying it out. All online reporting seems to stop in 2013 though - made me worry about the tablet section of the project. Would you recommend to get a different hardware instead or rather drop the idea altogether and stick with Android?
[19:41] <tnozyrox> Hello my bq works well, not lag 😀
[19:41] <ogra_> Niedersachse, well, the nexus7 works realtively well i heard ... and the n10 might even be fine it is just that it doesnt get much attention
[19:42] <ogra_> tnozyrox, yeah, the bq is fine and speedy :)
[20:04] <Niedersachse> ogra, ok, I might get me a used one and try it out after all then. Funny though that nobody seems to be interested in an Ubuntu tablet though, since Ubuntu is a great OS and this used to be the only officially supported hardware...?
[20:05] <xhoch3> kenvandine, I dropped Mediatek a mail
[20:05] <xhoch3> I recently bought a Meizu MX4 with Mediatek processor and thought it has a powerful GPU, but I was really disappointed. The UI lags visibly. I contacted the Ubuntu Phone developers and they claimed it is due to very bad driver performance under Linux and they can't do anything about it, because the source code is not free.
[20:05] <xhoch3> Why isn't it possible to release the source code, so people can freely improve the driver for you? I don't understand what's the benefit you have from annoying your customers with crappy closed-source drivers, so will not buy devices with MediaTek in the future?
[20:05] <xhoch3> If you allow, I would like to share your answer publicly, because there is a whole lot of people behind this request asking themselves the same question.
[20:05] <xhoch3> a bit pushy maybe :P but hey..
[20:06] <ogra_> xhoch3, i doubt mediatek has any interest in that
[20:07] <ogra_> xhoch3, we are using the android driver ... and meizu designed that combo of SGX gpu and MT core
[20:07] <ogra_> the hardware enablement team is in direct contact with meizu ...
[20:08] <xhoch3> ok, but obviously it doesn't work
[20:08] <ogra_> (and even with imagination tech. who maintains the PVR driver)
[20:08] <xhoch3> so who's to blame?
[20:09] <xhoch3> in the end, there can always be someone identified responsible
[20:09] <ogra_> time and manpower i guess
[20:09] <xhoch3> this is not an argument, make it open source, get the manpower
[20:09] <ogra_> well, feel free to buy imagination tech. and make it opensource
[20:10] <ogra_> (though that might be a prob since it is owned by apple, microsoft, arm, intel and others)
[20:10] <xhoch3> I feel free to not buy MediaTek anymore..
[20:10] <xhoch3> and lot of others will think similar
[20:10] <ogra_> you are barking up the wrong tree :)
[20:10] <ogra_> the bq devices both use mediatek too
[20:11] <ogra_> and their UI is fine
[20:11] <xhoch3> it's not, I have the Aquaris
[20:11] <xhoch3> it's lagging extremely, too
[20:11] <ogra_> well, for me it is
[20:11] <ogra_> i dont see any lag here
[20:11] <ogra_> moving my finger scrolls the UI just fine
[20:11] <xhoch3> ok, then you don't seem to notice :P
[20:12] <ogra_> like glued on ...
[20:12] <xhoch3> there is lag, I work in a company making mobile apps and all of my colleagues noticed
[20:12] <ogra_> i see lag in the browser and in some webapps at times
[20:12] <ogra_> but there is surely not the driver to blame
[20:13] <ogra_> anyway, the meizu issue is known and will be fixed at some point
[20:15] <xhoch3> I hope so, the device itself is nice, although the construction of the battery enclosure is bad (the edge stays a bit over, wearing off)
[20:16] <ogra_> are you sure you clipped it properly in ? mine is flat
[20:16] <xhoch3> yes, pretty sure, it's not much, like a tenth of a mm, but you can feel it with your fingertip
[20:17] <ogra_> (i got a grey pre-production device though, perhaps there are minor differences in the back covers)
[20:17] <xhoch3> only at the top, just checked
[20:19] <xhoch3> on the bottom left I can press the corner like almost half a mm in
[20:20] <xhoch3> top left, too
[20:59] <matv1> sorry to asked whats probably been asked before, but shell rotation is now in full swing except for scopes. They stick to the primary orientation of the device.
[20:59] <matv1> So how do I change the default?
[21:03]  * matv1 is thinking midnight is probably not the best of times to ask something like that :)
[21:23] <popey> matv1: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-ux/+bug/1465331
[21:27] <matv1> popey thnx :)
[21:28]  * matv1 should be making a hotkey for the previous string  
[21:36] <matv1> popey However, that bug only relates to display confusion on the device itself.
[21:36] <matv1> I was thinking along the lines of problems whith convergence. Simply put: would a phone attached to a screen that obviously likes landscape, still show the scopes locked to portrait?
[21:37] <matv1> or am i missing the point
[21:37] <dobey> i would guess at some point, the scopes would be hidden when attached to a screen, and you have to hit the BFB to get them to slide out, just like in unity7
[21:38] <dobey> having a window always open for scopes is kind of weird
[21:39] <matv1> dobey ah that sounds resonable.
[21:43] <dobey> at least, that's what i'd expect to see at some point. maybe the design team has some other idea of how that will work though
[21:44] <matv1> dobey any idea how scopes get their forced orientation atm though? I assume scopes can not own a .desktop file right?
[21:51] <dobey> i don't know what you mean about forced orientation
[21:52] <dobey> if you mean the dash itself does not rotate, that would be the dash itself
[21:52] <dobey> scopes have no UI. the dash owns all UI for scopes
[21:57] <matv1> yes ofcourse. I did miss the point. And dash orientation would be handled inside unity presumably
[21:57] <dobey> yes, the dash is part of unity8
[21:57] <dobey> it is an app separate from the shell
[21:59] <matv1> right