[00:44] <elopio> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/goget-ubuntu-touch/+bug/1472829
[03:14] <tsimonq2> balloons
[06:47] <dholbach> good morning
[07:10] <fgimenez> good morning
[07:17] <davidcalle> Good morning o/
[07:19] <mvo> hey fgimenez and davidcalle, good morning!
[08:08] <ogra_> Saviq, err ... looking at bug 1472788 ... dont you need to pipe something into snappys stdin ?
[08:09] <Saviq> ogra_, maybe, but shouldn't it just wait for me to type?
[08:10] <Saviq> ogra_, sry, that's what "stdin" means to me ;)
[08:10] <Saviq> didn't try piping, but that might very well be
[08:10] <ogra_> note that i dont know if it works :) but thats what stdin means to me
[08:16] <Saviq> ogra_, btw, I noticed uboot's env has a eth hwaddr set, should we (could we?) use that?
[08:16] <ogra_> Saviq, http://paste.ubuntu.com/11846901/
[08:16] <ogra_> (that was UTC before)
[08:16] <Saviq> ogra_, was it not Europe/Berlin before? ;)
[08:17] <Saviq> right
[08:17] <Saviq> ogra_, maybe it's just a doc issue then, or maybe it's a PEBKAC on my side
[08:18] <ogra_> for what do you want to use hwaddr ?
[08:20] <Saviq> ogra_, to set eth0 MAC
[08:20] <ogra_> why do you want to set it ?
[08:20] <ogra_> (instead f using the one the device has imprinted)
[08:21] <Saviq> ok well, the latter would be fine for me, too
[08:21] <Saviq> just noticed it there
[08:21] <Saviq> wasn't sure if it was imprinted elsewhere
[08:21] <ogra_> yeah, i have a fix for that pending ...
[08:22] <ogra_> the MAC comes from the blob (who is the only one able to actually read it from the board) ... i have code here that hands it over to uboot
[08:22] <ogra_> next image will have that
[08:23] <Saviq> ok coolz
[09:02] <JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Sugar Cookie Day! 😃
[09:35] <Chipaca> Saviq: “snappy config ubuntu-core -- -” works
[09:36] <Saviq> Chipaca, that waits for you to type? looks undocumented then :)
[09:37] <Chipaca> Saviq: yes
[10:05] <Chipaca> ogra_: you around?
[10:05] <ogra_> yes, but i try to get thinner
[10:06] <ogra_> (bad joke, i know)
[10:06] <Chipaca> http://instantrimshot.com/
[10:06] <Chipaca> ogra_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/goget-ubuntu-touch/+bug/1472829
[10:07] <ogra_> :)
[10:07] <ogra_> Chipaca, that should be fixed already
[10:07] <Chipaca> oooh
[10:07] <Chipaca> ogra_: already where/how?
[10:07] <Chipaca> i'm getting that bug right now, 's blocking me
[10:08] <ogra_> hmm, vivid ?
[10:08] <Chipaca> me? wily
[10:08] <ogra_> ah
[10:08] <ogra_> weird
[10:08] <Chipaca> weird werewolf works too
[10:09] <Chipaca> ogra_: 2.329?
[10:09] <ogra_> aha
[10:10] <ogra_> there was a quoting error in sergiusens MP ... i thought i fixed all occurences ... seems there is another one
[10:10] <Chipaca> sure, blame sergiusens today that he's not here :)
[10:11] <ogra_> he uses globbing in variable content ... but later quotes the vars when using them ... the quoting suppresses the globbing
[10:12] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11847452/
[10:13] <Chipaca> lel
[10:14] <ogra_> uploaded
[10:14] <ogra_> i'll trigger a new build once everything migrated
[10:14] <Chipaca> ogra_: thanks. any idea how long that'll take?
[10:14] <ogra_> the publisher can take 30min ...
[10:14] <ogra_> plus build time then
[10:15] <ogra_> (image build time that is)
[10:15] <ogra_> 1h or so i guess ... or a bit more
[10:16]  * Chipaca thinks of the xkcd comic about compiling
[10:17] <lool> ogra_: ext2 is fragile in the face of abrupt power loss; fat32 is usually already there because a lot of SoCs will read the SPL from the first bootable fat partition or similar
[10:18] <ogra_> lool, well, i have the unfounded feeling that vfat causes many of our issues ...
[10:18] <lool> ogra_: in general, we dont particularly insist on the latest u-boot, we just need specific features to be supported and turned on, such as HUSH (more advanced commands than defaults), fat write support and such
[10:18] <Chipaca> lool: surely fat32 is just as fragile wrt power loss as ext2?
[10:19] <ogra_> right ... the fatwrite bit still scares me here ... hush support is years old
[10:19] <Chipaca> maybe more so? i don't remember it having back up tables
[10:20] <lool> Chipaca: fat32 does have backup table and simpler format; there is no recovery process in fat32 but usually the data is still there while with ext2, a typical fsck after an unclean shutdown will result in missing or empty files
[10:20] <lool> u-boot doesn't support any kind of journal like ext3 or ext4
[10:20] <ogra_> well, and you usually dont need it
[10:20] <lool> so it becomes a critical moment to write to the ext2 fs, while fat32 is less so IMO
[10:20] <ogra_> though usually people also dont write files from uboot to the fat
[10:21] <lool> but then again I dont even if u-boot has write support for ext2
[10:21] <lool> ogra_: we do, we write the stamp file
[10:21] <ogra_> lool, people :) ... i know what *we* do ;)
[10:22] <lool> but frankly we're discussing two equally half good options
[10:22] <ogra_> and it scares me that we every now and then seem to end up with file or filesystem corruption ... even though we already try to do everything to avoid that
[10:22] <davmor2> ogra_: yes we break stuff right?
[11:28] <ogra_> Chipaca, building ... https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-cdimage/+livefs/ubuntu/wily/ubuntu-core-system-image
[11:28] <Chipaca> ogra_: wee :)
[11:39] <ogra_> Chipaca, and ready ... looking at the log it should be fine now ... let me know if it isnt
[11:45] <Chipaca> ogra_: now i'm back to getting the double map panic
[12:05] <ogra_> Chipaca, well, thats a udf thing i fear
[12:05] <ogra_> the hardware.yaml should at least be fine now
[12:06] <seb128> ogra_, snappy upgrade still fails to boot the new partition with today image, was the fix supposed to be in the new image?
[12:07] <seb128> or does it require to have some new bits in the snappy install from the system-a disk?
[12:07] <ogra_> seb128, it was supposed in the image from ~30min ago
[12:07] <ogra_> +to be
[12:08] <ogra_> the one before had an issue
[12:08] <seb128> why?
[12:08] <ogra_> because there was wrong quoting in the MP
[12:08] <seb128> oh, there was another quoting bug
[12:08] <ogra_> right
[12:08] <seb128> yeah, I saw your fix
[12:08] <seb128> but that was yesterday
[12:08] <seb128> I didn't see there was another round
[12:09] <ogra_> there was an upload today too
[12:09] <seb128> need to rekick personal as well
[12:09] <seb128> or did you do that?
[12:09] <ogra_> no, but you dont have the code yet
[12:09] <ogra_> sergiusens said "after we confirmed it works" ... which we havent yet
[12:10] <ogra_> and while this particular issue is fixed nopw, there seems to be something else still
[12:10] <seb128> shrug
[12:10] <ogra_> see Chipaca above
[12:10] <seb128> k
[12:10] <seb128> I'm unsure it makes sense to "test on core before doing the change on personal"
[12:10] <seb128> imho having it on both allows to stay in sync and do extra testing
[12:10] <seb128> but oh well
[12:10] <ogra_> do you prefer having both broken instead ?
[12:11] <seb128> personal is currently buggy anyway
[12:11] <seb128> upgrade boots to a systemd recovery
[12:11] <ogra_> ok, confirmed, hardware.yaml and the assets dir match now
[12:12]  * ogra_ closes the bug 
[12:36] <ogra_> Chipaca, looks all fine here http://paste.ubuntu.com/11848094/
[12:36] <Chipaca> yeah, this thing is weird and intermittent (but right now i'm stuck with it)
[12:37] <ogra_> ah, heh, but i end up at a grub prompt
[12:38] <ogra_> i assume grub also needs to learn about versioned kernel and initrd now
[12:48] <ogra_> hmm, how do i debug that
[12:49] <Chipaca> ogra_: um
[12:49] <Chipaca> ogra_: wait 3 seconds?
[12:50] <kyrofa> seb128, yesterday after your EOD we discovered that the snappy scope doesn't really fit into the the snap packaging architecture so well... so we've gone back to making it a .deb
[12:51] <ogra_> Chipaca, and then ?
[12:51] <seb128> kyrofa, ok, just curious but what's the issue with snaps?
[12:51] <kyrofa> seb128, do you anticipate having it set up in the CI somehow so I can land packages in there through the train?
[12:51] <seb128> was it discussed on this channel?
[12:51] <seb128> (just to know if I should read the irclog)
[12:51] <Chipaca> ogra_: and then it just boots
[12:52] <seb128> kyrofa, yeah, having it in CI would be nice
[12:52] <ogra_> Chipaca, "grub>_" .... thats all i get here
[12:52] <kyrofa> seb128, indeed it was-- look for the last mention of my nick yesterday
[12:52] <kyrofa> seb128, but I can give you a quick overview
[12:52] <ogra_> blinking cursor
[12:52] <seb128> kyrofa, thanks, but I'm going to read the log first and I might ping you for extra details then ;-)
[12:53] <kyrofa> seb128, sounds good
[12:53] <kyrofa> seb128, so the scope is already in CI, it's jut not going through the train (just autolanding)
[12:57] <ogra_> Chipaca, that doesnt look like udf creates a proper grub.cfg http://paste.ubuntu.com/11848214/
[12:57]  * ogra_ sees no entries at all for any kernel/initrd
[12:57] <Chipaca> ogra_: it worked here :-/
[12:57] <Chipaca> ogra_: that's not grub.cfg
[12:57] <ogra_> Chipaca, you mean with the current image ?
[12:58] <ogra_> ogra@anubis:~/datengrab/kvm$ pastebinit /mnt/EFI/ubuntu/grub/grub.cfg
[12:58] <ogra_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/11848214/
[12:58] <Chipaca> i mean i used udf just now and finally got a wily rolling thing working
[12:58] <ogra_> thats grub.cfg :)
[12:58] <ogra_> weird
[12:58]  * ogra_ re-runs udf
[12:58] <Chipaca> ogra_: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/11848223/
[12:59] <ogra_> yeah, definitely not whats in my image
[13:01] <ogra_> ogra@anubis:~/datengrab/kvm$ ubuntu-device-flash --version
[13:01] <ogra_> unknown flag `version'
[13:01] <ogra_> oh ... come on !
[13:01] <mvo> ogra_: heh, patches welcome!
[13:02]  * ogra_ has 0.25-0ubuntu1
[13:03] <Chipaca> ogra_: 0.26
[13:03] <Chipaca> 0ubuntu1wtfbbqftw
[13:03] <ogra_> bah, so someone didnt update the trusty version in the PPA
[13:03] <Chipaca> ogra_: you're using software so old it's starting to red-shift
[13:04] <ogra_> i'm using supported SW on my production systems :P
[13:04] <ogra_> wow
[13:04] <ogra_> https://launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/+archive/ubuntu/tools
[13:04] <ogra_> the PPA is even at 0.23
[13:04] <Chipaca> niiice
[13:04] <Chipaca> let's blame rsalveti
[13:04] <ogra_> yeah
[13:04] <Chipaca> at least he's here today
[13:04]  * ogra_ blames
[13:05] <rsalveti> we only update tools when we do a release
[13:05] <rsalveti> so once we release the stable update we'll migrate thhe packages from tools-proposed
[13:05] <rsalveti> what is happening? :-)
[13:05] <rsalveti> more breakages from sergiusens ?
[13:05]  * rsalveti reads backlog
[13:05] <ogra_> rsalveti, cant build amd64 kvm images on trusty anymore
[13:08] <ogra_> yay ... works with 0.26
[13:09] <ogra_> hmm, doesnt find webdm
[13:12] <ogra_> aha, doesnt bring up the interface ... fun
[13:12] <ogra_> even though there is a /e/n/interfaces.d file for it
[13:15] <ogra_> hmm, installing mir just spits out an error
[13:15] <kyrofa> ogra_, I'm so glad I'm not the only one using trusty :P
[13:22] <rsalveti> ogra_: what is the issue you're having?
[13:23] <rsalveti> ogra_: and would assume only rolling
[13:23] <ogra_> rsalveti, there was another quoting issue in the MP ... i fixed that ... and just tried to test the new image
[13:23] <rsalveti> or you can't even with 15.04?
[13:23] <ogra_> that was rolling ...
[13:23] <ogra_> with 0.25 i ended up at a grub prompt
[13:24] <ogra_> 0.26 is fine now
[13:24] <ogra_> (udf that is)
[13:25] <rsalveti> right, cool
[13:26] <rsalveti> we'll migrate the new packages to tools tomorrow
[13:26] <rsalveti> if all goes well
[13:26] <ogra_> good
[13:26] <rsalveti> ogra_: elopio: fgimenez: and how is 15.04 looking?
[13:26] <ogra_> i didnt really spend much time with it yet due to the other issue with rolling (and failing images etc)
[13:27] <ogra_> but i havent heard anything beyond what we knew yesterday
[13:27] <rsalveti> ogra_: you said there was the duplicated initrd and kernel, right?
[13:27] <rsalveti> or is that only with rolling?
[13:28]  * rsalveti looks
[13:28] <ogra_> no, that was 15.04
[13:28] <ogra_> armhf
[13:28] <rsalveti> ogra_: right, so guess that's something we still need to fix
[13:28] <ogra_> i'm not sure what to do though ... i dont want to break the image the last minute just to save some space
[13:28] <rsalveti> right, not critical but good to have
[13:29] <ogra_> yeah ...
[13:33] <rsalveti> guess we just need to properly validate the update from the sunday's image to the latest
[13:33] <rsalveti> and make sure the new kernel is indeed in place
[13:33] <rsalveti> fgimenez: can you take a look at that one?
[13:41] <rsalveti> oh, and that needs o happen on a bbb
[13:43]  * ogra_ goes to have some afternoon brunch 
[13:59] <fgimenez> rsalveti, ok i'll take a look
[14:03] <fgimenez> rsalveti, it would be 111 to 121, right?
[14:03] <rsalveti> fgimenez: hm, don't know the number exactly, but would guess so
[14:03] <rsalveti> just check the kernel version
[14:03] <fgimenez> rsalveti, ok
[14:36] <rsalveti> ogra_: care to review https://code.launchpad.net/~sergiusens/livecd-rootfs/eth0Not/+merge/263812 ?
[14:39] <ogra_> rsalveti, looks fine, want me to merge it ?
[14:40] <rsalveti> ogra_: if you can do the landing dance would be nice :-)
[14:40] <ogra_> sure
[14:55] <seb128> rsalveti, ogra_, was there any reason you didn't apply that change to personal as well?
[14:56] <mvo> seb128: *code duplication *mumble* *hrmf* *code duplication*
[14:56] <mvo> ;)
[14:56] <seb128> mvo, patches are welcome ;-)
[14:56] <ogra_> seb128, only that i wanted to do a "personal" sync later today that also includes the versioned kernel stuff etc
[14:56] <seb128> ogra_, k, good ;-)
[14:56] <seb128> I can do that if you want
[14:57] <ogra_> mvo, teach live-build about smylinks for build hooks :P
[14:57]  * mvo nods
[14:57] <ogra_> seb128, yeah, if you feel like ... i have a meeting now and would earliest do it in 1h
[14:58] <seb128> ogra_, k, can do
[14:58] <ogra_> thanks !
[14:58] <seb128> yw!
[15:13] <Chipaca> seb128: you around?
[15:14] <seb128> Chipaca, yes
[15:15] <Chipaca> seb128: you're running personal in kvm and getting past the login, yes?
[15:15] <seb128> Chipaca, no, I'm using virt-manager
[15:15] <seb128> but I guess kvm should be the same
[15:15] <seb128> need to use qxl video and spice
[15:15] <Chipaca> seb128: so you're not on wily?
[15:15] <seb128> I'm on wily
[15:16] <Chipaca> how does virt-manager work for you on wily?
[15:16] <Chipaca> it completely fails to work here
[15:17] <Chipaca> seb128: to me, i tell it to use an image, it chowns it to root, and then tries to read it as me
[15:18] <Chipaca> s/read/use/
[15:18] <seb128> Chipaca, wfm
[15:18] <seb128> I didn't do anything
[15:23] <Chipaca> seb128: can you walk me through what you did?\
[15:27] <seb128> Chipaca,
[15:27] <seb128> - start virt-manager
[15:27] <seb128> - click on the first icon in the toolbar
[15:27] <rsalveti> mvo: if you got some time left https://code.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/snapcraft/core/+activereviews
[15:27] <seb128> - select the first option (iso or CD)
[15:27] <rsalveti> otherwise will try to get to it later today as well
[15:27] <seb128> - next
[15:28] <seb128> - select the snappy image
[15:28] <seb128> - select os type ubuntu
[15:28] <seb128> - next, next, done
[15:28] <seb128> in the preferences select qxn/spice as described on http://unity.ubuntu.com/mir/setup_kvm_for_mir.html
[15:28] <seb128> Chipaca, ^
[15:28] <seb128> or I'm using qcow images, unsure if that makes a difference
[15:29] <seb128> qemu-img convert -O qcow2 wily.img new.img
[15:29] <Chipaca> seb128: i get “Could not open '/var/tmp/personal_copy.img': Permission denied
[15:29] <Chipaca> '”
[15:29] <Chipaca> where that img is the snappy file
[15:29] <seb128> Chipaca, are other users allowed to read that location?
[15:30] <Chipaca> seb128: "others"?
[15:30] <Chipaca> seb128: o
[15:30] <Chipaca> seb128: i've made it 0666
[15:30] <Chipaca> seb128: same error
[15:30] <Chipaca> it chowns it
[15:31] <seb128> Chipaca, I think the vm uses its own user
[15:31] <Chipaca> to libvirt-qemu:kvm if used as cdrom, to root:root if used as raw image
[15:31] <Chipaca> and then gets permission denied
[15:31] <seb128> is your user in the libvirtd group?
[15:31] <Chipaca> yes
[15:32] <seb128> k, I don' tknow then, sorry
[15:33] <Chipaca> maybe it's trying to do something silly and the sticky directory gives it an error it isn't expecting?
[15:33]  * Chipaca tries
[15:34] <Chipaca> that ... worked
[15:34] <Chipaca> /o\
[15:34] <seb128> so it was a permission issue?
[15:35] <Chipaca> apparently?
[15:35] <rsalveti> mterry: created https://trello.com/c/IK3aJj2d/170-documentation-for-snapcraft
[15:36] <rsalveti> mterry: this is the one you want to get done soon as well, right? https://trello.com/c/i3C75NVD/152-be-able-to-create-snap-just-from-snapcraft-yaml
[15:36] <mterry> rsalveti, yeah that too
[15:36] <mterry> rsalveti, and local-plugin
[15:36] <rsalveti> right
[16:03] <ogra_> seb128, wow, awesome !
[16:03]  * ogra_ just booted the last personal image 
[16:03] <ogra_> now how do i get past the intro ? i cant swipe the launcher in it seems
[16:04] <ogra_> Chipaca, sudo ubuntu-device-flash personal rolling --channel edge -o personal_x86.img --developer-mode
[16:04] <ogra_> Chipaca, kvm -m 2048 -vga qxl personal_x86.img
[16:04] <ogra_> that gets me going here
[16:04] <seb128> ogra_, why can't you?
[16:04] <ogra_> ah, i just tried to click on the wrong thing :P
[16:05] <ogra_> now i got it out of the way
[16:05] <seb128> good :-)
[16:05] <ogra_> mir is still pretty laggy in this setup
[16:06] <seb128> indeed it is
[16:06] <seb128> but at least it loads
[16:06] <ogra_> yup, looks very nice already
[16:09] <ogra_> hmm, interesting, browser doesnt start from the dash ... only from the launcher
[16:09] <fgimenez> leaving, nice evening everyone
[16:10] <seb128> ogra_, it does from the launcher?
[16:10] <seb128> ogra_, I though it was bug #1466012
[16:10] <nothal> Bug #1466012: Browser crashes on launch on Unity8 Desktop <webbrowser-app (Ubuntu):New> <http://launchpad.net/bugs/1466012>
[16:11] <ogra_> might be, i dont have a console currently ... just clicking around a bit
[16:11] <ogra_> hmm, i havent set up networking it seems
[16:13] <seb128> that should work out of the box
[16:13] <seb128> it's annoying that you can't vt switch with mir
[16:14] <seb128> but you can log out from the unity8 session, that goes back to lightdm, then you can go to a vt and do command line things
[16:14] <ogra_> yeah, i could probably ssh, havent tried with any -redir options yet
[16:14] <ogra_> i did build with --developer-mode
[16:15] <seb128> well, no cloud-init, so no ssh key....
[16:15] <ogra_> sigh .. the alt key doesnt work, now i have all windows with their top bar hidden behind the panel :P
[16:15] <ogra_> no way to move them anymore
[16:15] <seb128> how did you get them there?
[16:16] <ogra_> just dragging them to the very top
[16:16] <davidcalle> ogra_, if you happen to have a touch screen, tap three fingers on the window
[16:17] <ogra_> davidcalle, none of my three monitors has touch on this machine :)
[16:19] <davidcalle> ogra_, grab the bottom edge and reduce the size while holding shift
[16:20] <ogra_> nope, only lets me scroll inside the window
[16:20] <ogra_> cant resize windows
[16:21] <davidcalle> You have weirds window, for me it brings down the top edge symmetrically :)
[16:21] <ogra_> under unity8 personal ?
[16:22] <davidcalle> ogra_, hah, no, Unity7
[16:22] <ogra_> aaah !
[16:22] <davidcalle> ogra_, but maybe mzanetti can do a quick fix for that and you can update :p
[16:23] <davidcalle> [Critical] Alt key not working, need new Unity release
[16:23] <mzanetti> INPROGRESS
[16:24] <davidcalle> :)
[16:24] <ogra_> damn, i cant log in to my U1 account to install apps
[16:26] <seb128> well, that wouldn't work anyway
[16:26] <seb128> we don't have click support on that image
[16:26] <ogra_> details :P
[16:29] <ogra_> hmm, is log out supposed to get me lightdm back ?
[16:30] <ogra_> (it doesnt)
[16:31] <ogra_> oh, interesting ... doin a snappy serch on cmdline gets me a lot of uninteresting stuff
[16:43] <seb128> ogra_, logout works for me
[16:44] <seb128> I get lightdm unity-greeter
[16:46] <ogra_> strange, i didnt
[17:09] <elopio> hello
[17:09] <elopio> I'm sorry I'm late. No internet access this morning.
[17:16] <rsalveti> elopio: hey :-)
[17:16] <elopio> rsalveti: hi!
[17:16] <rsalveti> elopio: do you mind if I move our sync two hours later today?
[17:17] <elopio> rsalveti: not at all.
[17:17] <rsalveti> got a doctor appointment in 30 mins
[17:17] <rsalveti> great, thanks :-)
[17:17] <conyoo> holly cow! snappy personal desktop!
[17:17] <conyoo> gg
[17:35] <conyoo> doesn't work for me :(
[17:42] <conyoo> never mind.. it does work :D i'm stupid :(
[19:29] <carif> mterry, https://github.com/mikix/deb2snap looks pretty formidable, is there a way to install emacs24 on 'ubuntu-core/15.04/stable' in a more direct way? 'snappy search emacs' doesn't find anything.
[19:30]  * carif won't learn vi (yet)
[19:36] <elopio> carif: if you make a snap for emacs24, I'll use it extensively :)
[19:37] <carif> lol
[19:37]  * carif knows barry has one somewhere
[19:37] <carif> ... he's just holding out
[19:38] <elopio> that's a nice example to highlight some of the subjects that are being discussed now.
[19:38] <elopio> for example, I would like to extend the emacs snap you provide by adding my favorite modules.
[19:39] <elopio> do I have to repackage the snap with the modules included, or will there be a way to extend install snap extensions?
[19:40] <mterry> carif, hello!
[19:40] <carif> dude!
[19:40] <mterry> carif, no, deb2snap would probably be the most direct way currently
[19:41] <carif> sudo snappy install emacs24  # or some variant?
[19:42] <carif> mterry, ^^^   # lost like in olden days...
[19:43] <mterry> carif, that would work if someone had made an emacs24 snap already
[19:43] <mterry> carif, but if you want to make one, deb2snap is probably the fastest
[19:44] <mterry> currently
[19:44] <barry> carif: ha :)  i wish!
[19:44] <carif> ok, are you available for consulting services ## ... as in olden days ...
[19:47] <carif> as I make my way through the snappy tutorial (in a snappy fashion) do snaps "stack"? So suppose there was indeed an emacs24 snap and I installed it, where would it actually land?
[19:57] <mterry> carif, heyo
[19:57] <mterry> carif, got distracted
[19:57] <mterry> carif, if there was an emacs24 snap, it would install into something like /apps/carif.emacs24/VERSION/ (assuming 'carif' was the account that uploaded it to the store)
[19:58] <mterry> and there would be a symlink at /apps/carif.emacs24/current and a wrapper script installed at /apps/bin/carif.emacs24 that would launch the executable inside your snap
[19:58] <carif> ah, so the installed stuff winds up in /apps/${app}/${version}/ and /apps/bin "points" to the right one ... you beat me to it
[20:02] <carif> mterry, vg, who's user 'clickpkg' and what's /apps/${app}/${version}/ .click/info/${app}.manifest? Is click the old name for snap?
[20:05] <mterry> carif, yeah, click is predecessor to snap
[20:06] <mterry> carif, I thought we got rid of most references, but looks like we still have some  :)
[20:06] <carif> mterry, vg, so the plan-o-record is to evenually use snappkg and .snap?  ## Captain Obvious returns
[20:08] <mhall119> is there a way to tell my RPi2 my wifi credentials via USB like I could with the phone?
[20:08] <mhall119> trying snappy on it for the first time
[20:09] <mterry> carif, I don't know about that specifically -- it may be too much bother to rename those specific things at this point?  Not my area of expertise
[20:18] <mhall119> asac: ^^ can you help me get started with snappy?
[20:20] <asac> mhall119: unlikely, because thats a vertical specific logic i am quite sure ... but tell me how you do it with the phone
[20:22] <mhall119> asac: phablet-network command could copy the data over (via adb I assume)
[20:24] <mhall119> asac: could a custom overlay or snap, built locally on my laptop, be used to install that automagically onto the device?
[20:26] <asac> mhall119: so core itself does not make a choice about what network mgmt stack you want to use. configuring wifi or network in general would depend on making such choice. what we include is wpasupplicant, but how to use that is up to you... or someone making a wifi mgmt framework.
[20:26] <asac> mhall119: and yes, you could make a very basic network mgmt solution that just takes a config that you can set and brute force connects to the AP you configured
[20:27] <asac> and snap that up :)
[20:27] <asac> so far folks have done the networking code in their main snaps
[20:28] <asac> mhall119: do you know how to use wpasupplicant raw?
[20:28] <elopio> mhall119: what phablet-network does is to use adb to get into the phone, and then execute nmcli
[20:30] <mhall119> asac: nope
[20:31] <mhall119> so I dd'd the rp1 disk image to my SD card, and it appears to have booted my device, but I have no way of connecting to it via ssh or http
[20:32] <mhall119> oh, no, wait, I have ssh now, but I had to connect it to ethernet *and* find the actual IP address from my router's admin
[20:32] <asac> mhall119: yes, what i do is usually plug eth in my desktop
[20:32] <asac> setup NM to share connection
[20:33] <asac> mhall119: if you have webdm installed you can find it with webdm.local
[20:33] <elopio> mhall119: yes, that's what I'm doing. You can also connect through serial.
[20:33] <asac> or if you changed hostname its hostname.local
[20:33] <asac> mhall119: i think our default images have that
[20:33] <mhall119> I haven't changed hostname
[20:33] <asac> so try ping webdm.local :)
[20:33] <mhall119> and webdm.local didn't work
[20:33] <asac> ogra_: no webdm on pi2 image?
[20:33] <mhall119> it's there, but the domain resolution didn't work
[20:34] <asac> feels like a problem with your router/network topology i guess then
[20:34] <mhall119> could be, using the IP address works though
[20:34] <asac> if you can pluyg eth in your desktop you can for sure do it
[20:34] <mhall119> what port does webdm listen on?
[20:34] <asac> mhall119: well, ssh should be up
[20:34] <asac> on normal port
[20:34] <mhall119> it is, I can ssh in
[20:34] <asac> ssh webdm.local -lubuntu ?
[20:35] <mhall119> what does that do?
[20:35] <asac> ssh into the machine that claims the webdm.local name
[20:35] <asac> which should be your pi2 if its on the same subnet etc.
[20:35] <elopio> mhall119: webdm is port 4200
[20:35] <mhall119> huh, that worked, but ssh ubuntu@webdm.local didn't
[20:35] <asac> maybe took a while for the name to propagate
[20:36] <mhall119> elopio: thanks!
[20:38] <mhall119> alright, I have access to the store now
[20:38] <mhall119> what fun things can I try?
[20:40] <asac> mhall119: hello-world :)
[20:41] <mhall119> already installed it, how do I use it?
[20:41] <asac> mhall119: type hello<tab><tab> :)
[20:41] <asac> and see what it has to offer
[20:42]  * asac wonders if we added all the seccomp stuff needed for hello-world.shell
[20:42] <asac> jdstrand: you remember
[20:42] <asac> ?
[20:43] <mhall119> there's a jdstrand fork of hello-world
[20:44] <elopio> mhall119: chatroom.
[20:44] <mhall119> asac: why do snaps install into /apps/ rather than /opt/${store}/${app}/ ?
[20:44] <asac> mhall119: but also the offical one right?
[20:44] <mhall119> asac: yes, I installed the official one
[20:45] <asac> mhall119: next you could learn how to side load local snaps using the snappy-remote command ... wget http://people.canonical.com/~asac/tmp/hello-world_1.0.16_all.snap
[20:45] <asac> and then use snappy-remove --url ssh://webdm.local install hel*snap
[20:45] <asac> err
[20:45] <asac> and then use snappy-remote --url ssh://webdm.local install hel*snap
[20:45] <asac> mhall119: if you have that tell me what happens if you run hello-world.shell
[20:46] <asac> that should drop you into a shell where you see the world exactly from an app perspective
[20:46] <asac> e.g. a nice isolated place where you feel kinda trapped but maybe also secure :)
[20:47] <mhall119> I don't have snappy-remote
[20:47] <asac> install snappy-tools
[20:47] <asac> thats your meta package for basic dev tools
[20:47] <asac> from the official tools ppa
[20:47] <mhall119> which ppa?
[20:48] <asac> https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/snappy/
[20:48] <asac> -> get started
[20:48] <asac> right on top there :)
[20:48] <mhall119> thanks
[20:49] <ogra_> asac, indeed webdm on pi image
[20:52] <jdstrand> asac: re hello-world.shell-- iirc it depended on the shell. one of them wanted to setuid or something and we don't allow that cause we don't a) have seccomp arg filtering yet and b) have a uid to change to
[20:52] <asac> jdstrand: one of them, but not both, right?
[20:52] <asac> so either busy works or dash
[20:52] <asac> lets see
[20:52] <jdstrand> yes
[20:53] <asac> mhall119: if shell doesnt work let me know :)
[20:53] <jdstrand> I can't remember which otoh
[20:53] <asac> i wil give you a different variant that should work
[20:53] <jdstrand> iirc, there were a couple of other syscalls, but I'm pretty sure I added those
[20:53] <asac> right. lets see :)
[20:53] <asac> .shell is cool for sure
[20:53] <mhall119> asac: hello-world.sh exists with the store-installed version
[20:53] <mhall119> but not hello-world.shell
[20:53] <asac> mhall119: oh right ... i think its sh
[20:54] <asac> hmm shouldnt
[20:54] <asac> wait let me see if someone pushed something to bzr without telling me :)
[20:54] <asac> mhall119: does it work?
[20:55] <asac> e.g. do you end up in a shell or get a weird error>?
[20:55] <jdstrand> $ hello-world.sh
[20:55] <jdstrand> Launching a shell inside the default app confinement
[20:55] <jdstrand> $
[20:55] <jdstrand> it seems to work
[20:56] <asac> jdstrand: env | grep SNAPPY :)
[20:56] <jdstrand> ubuntu-core/15.04/edge r120 on amd64
[20:56] <asac> should be good
[20:56] <asac> or SNAP
[20:56]  * asac not a hacker
[20:56] <mhall119> asac: it works
[20:56] <asac> cool. so use env to see what env is set
[20:56] <asac> and try to write to dangaerious places like /home/ubuntu/evil.txt
[20:57] <asac> echo "hallo" > /home/ubuntu/evil.txt
[20:57] <asac> echo "hallo" > $HOME/good.txt
[20:57] <asac> echo "hallo" > $TMPDIR/good.txt
[20:57] <asac> echo "hallo" > /tmp/evil.txt
[20:57] <asac> evil should bail
[20:57] <asac> good should work i hope
[20:57] <ogra_> mhall119, try chatroom ;) (needs chromium though but gives you in-house hangouts on webdm.local:6565 )
[20:58] <asac> try echo "Hallo" > /dev/tty0
[20:58] <asac> then ssh in from other terminal
[20:58] <mhall119> $ echo "hello" > /tmp/bad.txt
[20:58] <mhall119> $ ls /tmp
[20:58] <mhall119> bad.txt
[20:58] <asac> do snappy hw-assign /dev/tty0 hello-world
[20:58] <asac> then you should be able to poke it
[20:59] <asac> hmm
[20:59] <asac> mhall119: sure you are in the shell?
[20:59] <asac> env | grep SNAP
[20:59] <asac> if that thing has no hit you are not there
[20:59] <mhall119> asac: yup, when I exit the shell I don't see bad.txt in /tmp/
[20:59] <asac> run hello-world.sh again
[20:59] <asac> interesting
[20:59] <ogra_> yes, snaps have their own tmpdir
[20:59] <asac> oh maybe we do more magic with containers and tmp now
[21:00] <jdstrand> the /tmp handling changed
[21:00] <asac> because too many apps are hard coding /tmp path
[21:00] <jdstrand> right
[21:00] <asac> so guess try the /home/ubuntu one
[21:00] <asac> and the tty0 one
[21:00] <asac> hehe
[21:00] <jdstrand> /tmp/ok is now allowed within the app's process
[21:00] <mhall119> so /tmp/ and ~/ are both okay to use by snap apps, but they don't point to unsafe places
[21:00] <jdstrand> but that ends up in /tmp/somewhere/ok
[21:01] <jdstrand> where 'somewhere' is something I can't recall otoh
[21:01] <asac> not sure if we did same for home
[21:01] <asac> but would assume yes :)
[21:01] <asac> didnt know we did that for /tmp tbh
[21:01] <jdstrand> that happened after 15.04 was released
[21:01] <mhall119> ok, this is pretty cool, now I need to make a snap app
[21:01] <asac> jdstrand: do we still set the TMPDIR etc. ?
[21:01] <asac> i hope not :)
[21:01] <asac> mhall119: sure the limit is the sky
[21:01] <jdstrand> $ env|grep TMP
[21:01] <jdstrand> TMPDIR=/tmp
[21:01] <jdstrand> SNAP_APP_TMPDIR=/tmp
[21:01] <jdstrand> SNAPP_APP_TMPDIR=/tmp
[21:01] <asac> just include everyting you need in your snap
[21:02] <jdstrand> $ env|grep HOME
[21:02] <jdstrand> HOME=/home/ubuntu/apps/hello-world.canonical/1.0.18
[21:02] <mhall119> what's the difference between SNAP_ and SNAPP_ ?
[21:02] <jdstrand> we are not bind mounting HOME
[21:02] <asac> mhall119: branch these to learn: https://code.launchpad.net/~snappy-dev/snappy-hub/snappy-examples
[21:02] <asac> jdstrand: legacy and new
[21:02] <asac> err
[21:02] <asac> mhall119: ^^
[21:02] <asac> we had SNAPP in the beginning, but changed our mind and kept the old one because we had apps that used it
[21:02] <mhall119> legacy? how do we have legacy stuff already?
[21:02] <asac> use SNAP_
[21:03] <ogra_> snappy is ancinet already :)
[21:03] <ogra_> *ancient
[21:03] <asac> mhall119: well, remember that we have big industry player adoptions that did snaps
[21:03] <asac> most snaps are just not in the store :P
[21:03] <asac> but almost all big companies have snaps already :D
[21:04] <jdstrand> $ sudo find /tmp -name ok
[21:04] <jdstrand> /tmp/snap.1000_hello-world.canonical_zYPh54/tmp/ok
[21:04] <asac> those guys hate it if they go to a roadshow and their awesome app is broken :)
[21:05] <mhall119> asac: why aren't they in the store?
[21:10] <jdstrand> fyi, I noticed the /tmp handling is a little weird: https://bugs.launchpad.net/snappy/+bug/1473218
[21:11] <asac> mhall119: think about it :) i am sure you can come up with the right answers
[21:13] <ogra_> mhall119, dont listen to him, dont waste time to think about it, just produce snaps !
[21:13] <ogra_> ;)
[21:13] <asac> lol
[21:13] <mhall119> heh
[21:13] <mhall119> ok, now what's the easiest way to convert a source deb to a snap?
[21:13] <asac> mhall119: source deb? why not a binary deb :)?
[21:14] <ogra_> there is deb2snap .... and yeah, you want binaries ... no need to compile stuff :)
[21:14] <asac> we have the awesome innovation by mterry called deb2snap
[21:14] <asac> which works for many cases
[21:14] <mhall119> asac: can I run deb2snap on an armhf deb from my i386 laptop?
[21:15] <mterry> mhall119, err...  not really.  maybe you can multiarch stuff by specifying libfoo:armhf
[21:15] <mterry> mhall119, but in general, it's just meant to grab what's on  your machine
[21:15] <asac> hey, i am the guy most detached from reality :P ... lets try to find out
[21:15] <asac> https://launchpad.net/deb2snap
[21:15] <asac> is what google tells me might be one place
[21:16] <asac> found http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mterry/deb2snap/trunk/view/head:/README.md
[21:17] <asac> mterry: if you hate all those nasty cross arch dev challenges you could try to be smart and install docker on your pi2
[21:17] <asac> snappy install docker
[21:17]  * ogra_ needs to do a writeup how to use deb2snap in an armhf chroot then ;) 
[21:17] <asac> and then use some magic cli to get a ubuntu env
[21:17] <mhall119> hmmm, doesn't look like an armhf binary exists for irssi :(
[21:18] <asac> lol
[21:18] <asac> mhall119: bip maybe?
[21:18] <asac> bip would be cool to have
[21:18] <mhall119> what is bip?
[21:18] <ogra_> mhall119, there is definitely an irssi binary
[21:18] <jdstrand> mterry: btw, did you see this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fkCj_ShgNw0gPqZR7lkTUaMavuj1MEUfBGx8LSgAT-s/edit (see 3rd point, 'denial on lchown'
[21:18] <asac> i was too ambitious trying to solve all problems at once so i am stuck at a stage that i have no time to solve :)
[21:18] <asac> mhall119: bip is an irc proxy
[21:18] <ogra_> i know popey used it on his N4 a while ago :)
[21:18] <asac> that you can then connect to
[21:19] <asac> so your pi2 up could  keep you always on and you can connect from whever you want
[21:19] <asac> i run it in the cloud right now
[21:19] <asac> buut would love to move that thing to my snappy cloud server
[21:19] <ogra_> +1
[21:19] <ogra_> same here
[21:19] <mterry> jdstrand, yeah but I've been busy on snapcraft, haven't spent any time  on deb2snap
[21:19] <mhall119> asac: does bip support connecting to multiple networks?
[21:19] <asac> of course
[21:19] <asac> i am on 4
[21:19] <asac> if you connect you get all the backlogs and pings
[21:20] <asac> you get logs
[21:20] <asac> everything you want
[21:20] <asac> its slightly buggy
[21:20] <jdstrand> mterry: sure, it was more just an fyi
[21:20] <mhall119> hmm, nice, I'll take a look at that
[21:20] <ogra_> yeah, it really nicely replays the night for you :)
[21:20] <asac> some folks prefer something more modern
[21:20] <jdstrand> mterry: where does deb2snap live?
[21:20] <asac> mhall119: it even remembers the channels you were in ... and gives them back to you next time you start your irssi or xchat or phone irc client
[21:20] <mterry> jdstrand, github.com/mikix/deb2snap or lp:deb2snap
[21:21] <asac> mhall119: your problem is that there is no multiarch package avail for irssi i am sure...
[21:21] <asac> if you go the docker route above it should be there
[21:22] <asac> mhall119: kickinz1 can tell you how to get a trusty/wily etc. docker env ... its just one command that i dont remember :(
[21:23] <ogra_> you could just install docker and afterwards owncloud ... and then check the processlist ;)
[21:23] <asac> to figure how to start a docker with trusty?
[21:23] <asac> odd way :)
[21:23] <ogra_> ah , i thought yu wanted to run a docker on the pi
[21:23] <asac> no i wnt to tell mhall how to use docker to get a chroot on pi2 so he can use deb2snap for armhf irssi :)
[21:24] <mhall119> man, I just want to install something I use on my server onto snappy, not learn how to use docker
[21:24] <ogra_> lol
[21:24] <asac> mhall119: its pretty easy i think
[21:24] <asac> mhall119: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cPX-yvZWMgshcnBeu2-mroZXnQEEK3jXJbtQqb09LiM/edit
[21:24] <asac> just read first paragraph
[21:24] <asac> two commands :)
[21:25] <asac> and tomorrow hunt down kickinz1 and ask him if there is official place where we have this documented...
[21:25] <asac> and then go to lool and ask him when we get comfy :P
[21:25] <asac> lol
[21:27] <mhall119> will snappy always require sudo?
[21:27] <asac> not if you are root :P
[21:27] <ogra_> for admin tasks ? ... sure
[21:27] <asac> hard to predict the future
[21:27] <mhall119> so it won't be like click then, where non-admin users can install things?
[21:28] <mhall119> that was a nice thing about the phone
[21:28] <asac> for now we are not rethinking it at least
[21:28] <asac> mhall119: we dont have per-user packages anymore
[21:28] <mhall119> what?
[21:28] <mhall119> why not?
[21:30] <asac> mhall119: why do you think are they needed?
[21:30] <mhall119> so that users could install what they wanted when they wanted
[21:30] <mhall119> without needing admin rights
[21:30] <ogra_> click needs admin rights as well
[21:31] <ogra_> it just shields that from you via packagekit ...
[21:31] <mhall119> ogra_: but it doesn't require sudo to install click packages
[21:31] <mhall119> right, which is nice
[21:31] <ogra_> it wouldnt require sudo to use snappy install either if you hook it into policykit like packagekit does
[21:31] <ogra_> thats a tech detail really
[21:32] <ogra_> they are not different ... click needs admin permission the same way snappy needs them ... (it installls clicks in /opt ... )
[21:32] <mhall119> asac: docker command failed: FATA[0113] Error response from daemon: Cannot start container 7d047b0b0d7891f51846dfdb07ac3583d402522a53583be60b774085faddcc30: [8] System error: exec format error
[21:33] <mhall119> ogra_: right, but the user triggering the install didn't need to be given admin rights
[21:33] <mhall119> that was what was nice
[21:33] <mhall119> it means I could let my kids install apps without giving them sudo access
[21:33] <mhall119> and having per-user apps meant that they could upgrade apps that I use, without me getting upgraded too
[21:33] <ogra_> mhall119, thats a 30min job of putting policykit configs in place to make the same thing work with snappy or apt
[21:34] <ogra_> this has nothing to do with click, really
[21:34] <mhall119> ogra_: got 30 minutes? :)
[21:34] <ogra_> it is like having click hardcoded in /etc/sudoers with nopasswd
[21:34] <mhall119> ok, that's fine, I hope somebody does that work at some point
[21:35] <ogra_> and it only works on the phone because we have a single hardcoded user
[21:35] <mhall119> though without per-user apps, it's probably not a good idea
[21:35] <ogra_> webdm didnt ask you for a password, did it ?
[21:35] <ogra_> :)
[21:35] <mhall119> ogra_: to do what?
[21:35] <ogra_> the snap scope doesnt either :)
[21:36] <ogra_> to install anything
[21:36] <mhall119> ogra_: it prompted me to use sudo
[21:36] <ogra_> webdm ?
[21:36] <mhall119> snappy did
[21:36] <ogra_> surely not
[21:36] <mhall119> I didn't install anything through webdm yet
[21:37] <ogra_> thats why i said webdm and the snap scope :)
[21:37] <ogra_> ah
[21:37] <mhall119> yeah, webdm doesn't prompt me to, okay
[21:38] <ogra_> it is all a matter of configuration ;)
[21:40] <mhall119> ok, so now I need to get docker running, anybody know what's causing the failure I pasted above?
[21:41] <ogra_> all contact i had with docker yet was in webdm ... when installing it (and owncloud)
[21:42] <mhall119> installing docker ran fine, but running an instance fails
[21:46] <asac> mhall119: its because the name is different
[21:46] <asac> mhall119: try docker search armhf maybe
[21:47] <asac> kirkland: you know the CLI to run the armhf docker instance?
[21:47] <asac> mhall119: use -t armbuild/ubuntu:trusty
[21:47] <asac> instead of '-t ubuntu:trusty'.
[21:48] <asac> seems jdstrand is the expert :)
[21:48] <asac> he answered that on ML
[21:48] <asac> :)
[21:51] <mhall119> asac: thanks, that got it working
[21:51] <mhall119> jdstrand: ^^ thanks to you too
[21:54] <mhall119_snappy> woot! woot!
[21:55] <ogra_> hey hey
[21:55] <mhall119> so irssi works inside of docker
[21:55] <asac> mhall119: guess directly from docker or did deb2snap just work awesome?
[21:55] <asac> heh
[21:55] <mhall119> I just ran apt-get install irssi inside of docker
[21:55] <asac> so dont ask me how you can even preserve that state
[21:55] <asac> lol
[21:55]  * asac is super clueless about docker
[21:55] <asac> run to lool and ask him where comfy is :)
[21:56] <mhall119> asac: that's okay, "learn docker" should never be our response to somebody wanting to build a snap package
[21:56] <asac> its not
[21:56] <asac> just for those that dont know how to do things if they dont find the old world on their machine :)
[21:56] <asac> until we have the old world nicely done on snappy
[21:56] <asac> which comfy is about
[21:58] <asac> mhall119: makng snaps is super trivial. just put everything you need in a directory tree, add a description, name, logo and in meta/package.yaml and run snappy build :)
[22:03] <asac> mhall119: anyway, we are working on embracing those that have forgotten how to put everything together because they are used to the ease they get everything needed in ubuntu :P. wont take long i really hope
[22:07] <jdstrand> mhall119: heh, yw
[22:07] <jdstrand> I am hardly the expert though :)
[22:08] <asac> mhall119: on app per user ... we couldnt really find that this is a primitive we will want forever in our platform. we identified enough things that world thinks this solves that actually dont need this feature that we decided to not do it for now. actually - without recalling all that - the only reason that was not possible in other ways was the "user X wants to have different version thatn user Y of same app"
[22:09] <asac> that you funnily enough mentioned
[22:13] <asac> mhall119: the key thing to remember that snappy core is not a platform, its a platform for building platforms; so whatever things we pick and do here, it could limit the potential of innovation in our ecosystem, so unless its clear that this is the way that the problem we solve everyone will want or if not everyone at least we are sure it will not block others to solve their problem, we rather do less :)
[22:13] <asac> err hard to pars :P
[22:13] <asac> late here
[22:13] <asac> but i guess you get the point
[22:42] <kirkland> asac: yeah, you got it :-)