[05:54] <mapps> hii
[08:50] <brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
[10:25] <awilkins> Is it just me or are all the ubuntu mirrors really slow right now?
[10:26] <awilkins> Getting dialup speeds
[10:28] <awilkins> Doing a speedtest during a big package update.... 5Mbit/s
[10:28] <awilkins> So definitely not the connection...
[10:36] <shauno> "It is believed to be the first time the Welsh government has chosen to communicate in Klingon."   I needed that today :)   http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-33479808
[10:40] <shauno> awilkins: I just got 12.5MB/s (big-B) from gb.archive, which isn't too shabby?
[10:41] <awilkins> Getting 303 kB/s at moment
[10:41] <awilkins> From ubuntu.com
[10:41] <awilkins> Which is probably same as gb.archive ??
[10:41] <awilkins> Was on gb.archive before
[10:41] <awilkins> Tried a smaller 3rd party
[10:42] <awilkins> Maybe the storm is clearing, whatever it was
[10:42] <awilkins> Still much less than the 5Mbit/s this connection can do
[10:42] <awilkins> Aaaand down to 15kB/s
[10:43] <awilkins> Must have badmouthed it too much
[11:20] <shauno> awilkins: "you made the server cry" might be appropriate right now; https://community.pagerduty.com/t/pagerduty-ringtones/63
[11:26] <awilkins> Finally got all my updates :-)
[11:26] <awilkins> Flash works again
[11:26] <awilkins> Mixed feelings about that
[14:44] <daubers> Afternoon
[14:45] <penguin42> it is
[14:45] <daubers> Lovely bit of rain this afternoon too
[14:47] <penguin42> dry here
[14:48] <daubers> You're missing out!
[14:51] <penguin42> hmm no, it's not that warm here
[15:49] <diddledan> allo allo
[15:59] <zmoylan-pi> thees eees night'awk
[16:47] <diddledan> so I just logged into facebook. the email alert says I am in fremont, california. either facebook is mistaken or a haxx0r just haxxed my account at precisely the same time I logged-in
[16:47] <diddledan> either that or IPv6
[16:48] <zmoylan-pi> or california invaded your home town..
[16:48] <diddledan> there's a california in norfolk iirc
[16:48] <shauno> he.net tunnel?  they're in fremont
[16:49] <diddledan> yeah, he
[16:49] <shauno> probably not a coinkydink.  but do delete your account, lawyer up and hit the gym, just in case :)
[16:50] <diddledan> gym? that's a bit too much like effort
[16:50] <MartijnVdS> diddledan: IPv6 from HE could be that I guess? Being US subnets etc
[16:50] <diddledan> yeah
[16:50] <diddledan> hurricane electric should really sort out the registration of their uk tunnels
[16:51] <MartijnVdS> UK ISPs should just start doing proper IPv6 deployment themselves ;)
[16:51] <diddledan> well yeah, there is that
[16:51] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: Apparently BT has started trialling it
[16:51] <diddledan> bt are doing ^^ what he said!
[16:52] <shauno> HE aren't actually doing much wrong.  geo-ip on v6 is just very very rough so far
[16:53] <shauno> if I whois my v6 addy, I actually get galway IE in the result
[16:53] <diddledan> IP Addresses were never meant to be geographic in the first place, though, so geoip is just silly
[16:53] <shauno> eg http://paste.ubuntu.com/11867646/
[16:53] <MartijnVdS> There's 1 consumer ISP in the Netherlands who do it (mine), and one trialing it (the biggest one)
[16:55] <shauno> so the data's actually better than you'd expect - I show up as ireland despite using a london endpoint.  it's just not making it to the datasets the geoip folk collate
[16:56] <zmoylan-pi> it was either that or a 4 'o 4 error :-)
[16:56] <diddledan> how'd you get that registered as galway?
[16:58] <penguin42> http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/07/10/science/An-Image-of-Earth-Every-Ten-Minutes.html is gorgeous
[16:58] <shauno> I guess they used the t-shirt promo to verify addresses :)
[17:01] <diddledan> interesting, just checked mine and I'm registered correctly
[17:01] <diddledan> contact:Province:Hampshire
[17:02] <shauno> I'm guessing it was the t-shirt thing because I always put my postcode in as 'eire' when they demand one (and I don't have one)
[17:02] <shauno> so at some point they asked me, rather than just trying to geo-locate my v4 endpoint
[17:03] <shauno> but, not complaining.  it's accurate enough without being too personal
[17:03] <zmoylan-pi> we'll have post codes soon.  terrible ones
[17:03] <shauno> yeah :(
[17:03] <shauno> not looking forward to that.  I kinda like that an post are miracle-workers
[17:04] <shauno> I had a package arrive here in 5 days, from germany.  it was addressed to "shaun oneil, 2A, cork".  no street name, wrong city.  5 days.
[17:04] <diddledan> wow
[17:05] <diddledan> htf did that even get to you at all?!
[17:05] <zmoylan-pi> i had norwegian friends living on a tiny lane in dublin and there were 3 houses with their number in the lane.  never lost post
[17:05] <diddledan> maybe you're the only shaun o'neil who lives at a 2a
[17:05] <zmoylan-pi> it used to freak them out
[17:05] <shauno> I like to think that someone in the sorting office is just on first-name basis with the entire country.  and just took one look and went "ahh nahh, shaun's in galway" and popped it in the right pile
[17:06] <shauno> either that or they're witches.  but it works.
[17:06] <zmoylan-pi> it's one of those things that if you examine too closely will stop working
[17:06] <diddledan> lol
[17:06] <shauno> it's actually a real thing that it's near impossible to fire a postman.  because if he doesn't pass down his notes to the next guy, it all goes horribly wrong
[17:08] <shauno> sadly their "sorry we missed you" ninjas are just as highly trained
[17:11] <zmoylan-pi> i play d&d with an irish postman, you should see him with nerf... :-p
[17:12] <shauno> (also: https://twitter.com/DrJohnLahinch/status/614136743114244098  )
[17:21] <zmoylan-pi> it's become a bit of a sport... http://www.broadsheet.ie/2015/06/04/will-an-post-deliver-this/
[17:28] <diddledan> some folk do riddles/puzzles on things they put in the post in place of the actual address to see if the postie is clever enough to solve it and get it to the right destination
[18:52] <mapps> ahhh off after tonight
[19:01] <ali1234> does anyone know how to remove invalid data from rrdtool?
[19:03] <diddledan> ali1234: are the stats store in binary files? if not you might be able to remove the nasty-lines from the files and recreate the graph with gaps
[19:03] <ali1234> yes they are stored in binary
[19:03] <diddledan> grr
[19:03] <diddledan> no idea then
[19:04] <diddledan> you _might_ get away with hexxing them to 00
[19:04] <ali1234> i wish someone would write a half decent graphing tool
[19:04] <ali1234> rrdtool is designed for graphing router traffic and it can't handle when the router is reset and the counters go back to zero
[19:04] <penguin42> ali1234: I use grafana now
[19:05] <diddledan> statsd+graphite seems to be gaining momentum
[19:05] <ali1234> instead it assumes the 64bit counter overflowed and you transfered several petabytes in 1 second
[19:05] <diddledan> but that's not specific to routers - it's a generic statistics thing
[19:06] <ali1234> penguin42: yeah but what is the data source?
[19:06] <ali1234> graphite?
[19:07] <penguin42> ali1234: Yes, I think that's what I'm using, with carbon/whisper storage
[19:08] <penguin42> ali1234: and collectl
[19:08] <diddledan> ali1234: https://github.com/graphite-project is the source code
[19:09] <penguin42> ali1234: It gives nice pretty/zoomable graphs, it's not too bad - so the upside is it's interactive, the downside is it's interactive - so if you want to publish it to an external site it's harder than the static graphs of rrd generates
[19:09] <penguin42> ali1234: But I think you can get graphite to do that
[19:09] <diddledan> seems their homepage is just docs rather than necessarily telling you about the project, but it's at http://graphite.readthedocs.org/en/latest/
[19:09] <ali1234> seems there's three parts: getting the data, storing the data, and plotting the data on a graph
[19:09] <penguin42> ali1234: And a 4th of organising the set of graphs/dashboard
[19:09] <ali1234> the only one i am unahppy with is the storing the data part
[19:10] <ali1234> which is all rrdtool is supposed to do really
[19:10] <penguin42> ali1234: So I erm think I'm running grafana on graphite on whisper/carbon supplied by collectl
[19:10] <ali1234> lol
[19:11] <diddledan> ali1234: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/10298484/remove-data-from-rrdtool
[19:11] <ali1234> this shouldn't be so difficult
[19:11] <ali1234> it's just a graph
[19:11] <penguin42> ali1234: Agreed
[19:11] <diddledan> seems you can dump it to xml and reimport once edited
[19:11] <ali1234> i could make a graph in excel in about 10 seconds
[19:11] <ali1234> why is it so hard to automate this?
[19:11] <penguin42> ali1234: http://www.treblig.org/debug/gort-network.png   but it comes out OK
[19:11] <ali1234> diddledan: yeah i'm abandoning rrdtool, it's annoyed me once too often and the graphs are ugly anyway
[19:12] <diddledan> yeah the graphs are fugly!
[19:12] <diddledan> they're not antialiased which makes them all jaggy
[19:13] <diddledan> penguin42: those are pretty
[19:14] <penguin42> diddledan: Yeh and it's not too bad to navigate - still some things where it's a bit kludgy but not bad
[19:14] <penguin42> diddledan: Easy to add your own stuff as well; I've got one where I fed temperature data from my own code
[19:15] <penguin42> diddledan: I don't particularly like the way it stores it's data though; you do have to preallocate space
[19:15] <ali1234> as with rrdtool, it seems like the big problem is you have to specify the fixed size database parameters up front and then you can't ever change them
[19:15] <penguin42> ali1234: You can change them
[19:16] <penguin42> ali1234: whisper-resize
[19:16] <penguin42> ali1234: I've done it a few times having gotten it wrong originally
[19:16] <ali1234> you can change them in rrdtool too but it doesn't actually make any sense to do so and will usually corrupt the data
[19:16] <ali1234> graph tool should store the raw data
[19:16] <ali1234> (x,y) -> row
[19:17] <penguin42> ali1234: Which whisper can do I think
[19:17] <ali1234> it shouldn't need to care about what the data actually means until it has to generate a graph
[19:18] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh there seem to be some specials to deal with sample data - it seems to be a common problem to want to store samples and retrieve samples from a range and possibly at different levels of granularity
[19:19] <penguin42> ali1234: For example, if you've got samples every 5 seconds, if you try and draw a 6 month graph you end up with a heck of a lot of data unless you're careful
[19:20] <penguin42> ali1234: If you set it up right, you can balance how much is sent to the js graph browser and how much is averged on the server, so neither of them go mad
[19:38] <ali1234> ah... i just found something
[19:38] <diddledan> \o/
[19:38] <ali1234> you can set the min/max on the database, then dump and restore it
[19:39] <ali1234> then you don't need to modify the xml by hand
[19:39] <diddledan> o_O
[19:39] <ali1234> if you modify an existing database min/max it doesnt automatically remove values outside the range
[20:53] <diddledan> o_O you can register children's names in the uk using unicode characters!?!
[20:53]  * diddledan listening to linuxvoice podcast
[20:54]  * brobostigon is listening to TBBT repeats.
[20:54] <diddledan> TBBT?
[20:54]  * zmoylan-pi is watching m*a*s*h
[20:54] <diddledan> the british baking twonks?
[20:54] <brobostigon> diddledan: the big bang theory.
[20:54] <diddledan> aah
[20:55] <brobostigon> easy listening while do other things.
[20:56] <brobostigon> as i am also, planning to DM a game of D&D with friends soon.
[20:56] <brobostigon> doing planning for that.
[20:57] <zmoylan-pi> what version?
[20:57] <diddledan> geek :-p
[20:58] <diddledan> teehee
[20:58] <zmoylan-pi> i highly recommend nerf with d&d for settling rules arguments
[20:59] <diddledan> last time I played D&D I managed to spawn, not one, not two, but three dolphins into a stairwell. the same stairwell
[21:00] <diddledan> and another member of our party was decidedly terrible at abseiling down the outside of the tall tower we were exploring
[21:00] <diddledan> strangely he didn't die
[21:00] <brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: we are moving from v.4 to v.5, u working on the basis of v.5.
[21:00] <diddledan> despite falling several floors
[21:00] <zmoylan-pi> i think one of our finest moments was when we sold an entire village into slavery for price of a map.  we were playing evil alignment but we kinda shocked the dm
[21:00] <diddledan> lmao
[21:01] <brobostigon> :)
[21:01] <diddledan> an _entire_ village
[21:01] <diddledan> lmao
[21:01] <zmoylan-pi> well apart from those that resisted
[21:01] <diddledan> oh that one caught mne offguard
[21:01] <diddledan> I'm sat here laughing my head off
[21:02] <zmoylan-pi> yeah, kind of the reaction the dm had.  we were evil but wow isn't that excessively evil?
[21:02] <diddledan> I'm guessing the DM was somewhat shocked that you even succeeded in the sale
[21:02]  * brobostigon plays a good human wizard, but can be very evil with his magical powers.
[21:02] <diddledan> gotta love the roll of the die
[21:03]  * brobostigon has copper d20 dice.
[21:03] <diddledan> oooh
[21:04] <zmoylan-pi> i play a human mercenary in one game who's chief ability is to hide behind a dwarf and an orc pacifist in another who lets monster try and hit him till they die of exhaustian
[21:05] <brobostigon> same as i do, hide behind everyone else to protect myself, and hit other people with spells in the their heads.
[21:07] <zmoylan-pi> the human mercenary is fun as he tag teams with the dwarf so that huge horrible monster find me flinging the dwarf into flanking positions from where he does stupid levels of damage while i whittle them down with weak constant unstoppable attacks
[21:08] <diddledan> gotta love dwarf-flinging
[21:08] <zmoylan-pi> i've even beaten warforged in hand to hand unarmed combat which suprised everyone including myself
[21:10] <brobostigon> my gf plays a cleric, so i keep close to her, loadsa healing powers.
[21:10] <diddledan> plus. kissies! :-p
[21:10] <zmoylan-pi> one of our healers has a pet monkey.  he has a tendency to heal the monkey before healing us...
[21:10]  * brobostigon giggles.
[21:10]  * brobostigon approves.
[21:13] <brobostigon> maybe she can have gold d20 dice instead of a gold ring if the time comes?
[21:20] <zmoylan-pi> and pics from d&d games can be seen here. https://twitter.com/angryearthling/media
[21:31] <diddledan> so I wonder if 5.25inch floppies will work under windows 10 (there were reports back in january that floppies were entirely unsupported but later builds have apparently included drivers for some floopies)
[21:32] <zmoylan-pi> but only 720k floppies...
[21:32] <diddledan> 360KB
[21:33] <zmoylan-pi> or 180k
[21:33] <diddledan> these aren't HD
[21:33]  * brobostigon makes a note, gold d20 if gets engaged.
[21:33] <diddledan> brobostigon: good plan!
[21:33] <zmoylan-pi> or get a roman dice 2000yo...
[21:33] <brobostigon> diddledan: :)
[21:33] <diddledan> did the romans make d20s?
[21:34] <brobostigon> probably not.
[21:35] <zmoylan-pi> http://www.jesperjuul.net/ludologist/roman-d20
[22:37] <zmoylan-pi> ~