[05:55] <Kilos> greetings svij MooDoo nhaines and others
[07:00] <dholbach> good morning
[07:01] <Kilos> hi dholbach 
[07:02] <dholbach> hey Kilos
[07:09] <svij> morning!
[11:52] <tramm> hello everybody, i was asking some questions about ubuntu derivatives project yesterday
[11:55] <tramm> do you know how's it going with embracing the derivatives into ubuntu ecosystem?
[11:58] <tramm> svij: whom should i poke now? :)
[11:58] <svij> tramm: dpm or dholbach 
[11:59] <dholbach> tramm, what's your question more specifically?
[12:00] <tramm> can you scroll up two pages? i need to decide what to do with a derivative project called estobuntu
[12:00] <dholbach> erm
[12:00] <dholbach> I'm not sure I was there when you discussed it
[12:00] <dholbach> I'm not on IRC 24/7
[12:01] <tramm> i see, you weren't
[12:02] <dholbach> maybe you could just give me a few bullet points so I can try to answer the question?
[12:02] <tramm> i have been developing  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DerivativeTeam/Derivatives/Estobuntu and it is uck generated derivative iso of ubuntu with some additional software and nordic looks
[12:03] <tramm> under derivative team there once was a project to bring derivatives closer to ubuntu's official process, there was a software developed to become a standard to create derivatives
[12:04] <tramm> for me it seems derivatives project is discontinued
[12:04] <dholbach> is all of the software you use in the Ubuntu archive?
[12:04] <tramm> no, not all of it, for example estonian id card software isn't
[12:05] <tramm> so i'd like to bring this estobuntu project closer to ubuntu standard process and wonder what my opportunities are
[12:05] <dholbach> so a good step would be to get the software and other necessary changes into the archive first
[12:05] <dholbach> that's going to help in any case
[12:06] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SponsorshipProcess and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/NewPackages would help there
[12:06] <dholbach> after that I'd have a chat with the technical board about making the flavour official
[12:07] <dholbach> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/technical-board is their mailing list
[12:08] <tramm> it's actually pending in debian: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=702174
[12:08] <tramm> dholbach: what does that mean if flavour is official, what is the technical process, what are the requirements?
[12:09] <dholbach> tramm, I don't know the exact requirements as I haven't closely followed any of the discussions previously
[12:10] <dholbach> but you'd be part of the usual release process, use the same infrastructure, work more closely with other developers
[12:10] <dholbach> can use the same timeline as other releases, participate in release testing, etc.
[12:10] <dholbach> requirements are likely to be that everything has to be in Ubuntu
[12:10] <dholbach> not sure what else
[12:11] <dholbach> good idea to get the packages into Debian
[12:11] <dholbach> it looks like they got their first review already
[12:12] <tramm> i'd like to find out the details, so i can see if we can fit into the process
[12:12] <tramm> where should i query about it?
[12:13] <dholbach> you could take a look at the archives of the tech board list
[12:14] <dholbach> and see what was discussed with for example the ubuntu gnome team
[12:14] <dholbach> and if you're still in doubt, just ask on the TB list
[12:15] <tramm> well, estobuntu is more like a localisation, but with some not too important extras, like the id card software
[12:15] <tramm> so i'm a bit reluctant of comparing it with official flavour distros like lubuntu, kubuntu etc
[12:48] <dholbach> I thought you were interested in making it official?
[12:49] <tramm> localisations are also official, right?
[12:49] <dholbach> right, they are done in launchpad
[12:49] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations
[12:49] <tramm> isn't there some kind of middle ground between localisations and desktop flavours?
[12:50] <dholbach> hum
[12:50] <dholbach> what kind of middle ground do you mean?
[12:52] <tramm> derivatives project was something like that
[12:53] <dholbach> the derivatives project was mostly just a mailing list and an irc channel
[12:53] <dholbach> where people from derivatives could get together and chat
[12:53] <dholbach> after some time it lost traction, so the channel and mailing list were closed
[12:54] <dholbach> I'm not quite sure which problem you would like to solve
[13:05] <tramm> i searched in my archives and it seems https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubuntu-defaults-builder was meant to be used for those derivatives as a standard process
[13:06] <tramm> is it normally used for generating official flavours, remixes (whatever is the right term) of ubuntu?
[13:06] <tramm> i remember we considered switching from ubuntu customisation kit to defaults-builder to be more involved in official process
[13:07] <dholbach> I'm afraid I don't know
[13:07] <tramm> however since derivatives project died, we also kind of dropped it
[13:07] <dholbach> I never participated in any release of a flavour/remix/derivative/anything else
[13:07] <dholbach> maybe you could ask on loco-contacts@lists.ubuntu.com?
[13:08] <dholbach> to see how other LoCos deal with it?
[13:08] <dholbach> or what they generally suggest?
[13:11] <tramm> i'll see if i find maintainer of this defaults-builder or some admins of discontinued derivatives project
[13:11] <tramm> if not, i'll post to this or some other list
[13:12] <tramm> maybe askubuntu would also make sense
[13:13] <tramm> dholbach: and thanks for talking to me, at least i got to now that there's no need to be embarrased about my confusion about the process
[13:13] <dholbach> no, don't worry
[13:14] <dholbach> I think there's a lot of ways to achieve what you're trying to do
[13:14] <dholbach> the more you can get into Ubuntu and Debian, the better
[13:14] <dholbach> but it's not going to be a strict requirement
[13:14] <dholbach> at least not if you operate like you do right now
[13:14] <dholbach> or like (probably) many other LoCo teams do