| zequence | holstein: Actually, len may be doing more coding than me, so there's at least the two of us :). | 18:25 |
|---|---|---|
| zequence | I'm not burned out, so don't worry about me | 18:26 |
| holstein | oh, im not worried that you are burned out | 18:27 |
| zequence | But, there is a problem with how we deal with a lot of stuff - mainly because our community is too small | 18:27 |
| holstein | its that, you *will* .. since, there is literally no plan in place to swap leads | 18:27 |
| holstein | you just go, til, somewhere, behind closed doors, you hand it off to someone | 18:27 |
| zequence | That's not my plan though | 18:27 |
| holstein | we should just document it as such, thats all | 18:27 |
| zequence | My plan has always been to have an election, but for one to take place - with members who know what they are voting for, we need more people actively involved | 18:28 |
| zequence | Also, there needs to be more than one other person to vote for | 18:28 |
| holstein | i assure you, im not interested in beind lead | 18:28 |
| holstein | i was, as i told you, personally, in PM,when the lead position was handed over to you, interested in entertaining someone like falk, or the AVlinux creator.. for example | 18:29 |
| zequence | Can't hand anything over to anyone who doesn't do Ubuntu Studio development | 18:30 |
| holstein | lol | 18:30 |
| zequence | The only way to do this is to do this | 18:30 |
| holstein | they would do whatever it takes, and be voted on.. | 18:30 |
| holstein | anyways, ideally, i think it was be great if you or len were MOTU's.. whatevrer sponsorship, $$, or work that takes.. | 18:31 |
| zequence | I have upload rights for our packages, so that's always something | 18:31 |
| zequence | I also have access to Debian multimedia sources | 18:31 |
| zequence | Neither falktx or the AVLinux guy (to my knowledge) have been even trying to get into that | 18:32 |
| zequence | That's kind of the problem | 18:32 |
| holstein | right | 18:32 |
| holstein | and why? | 18:32 |
| holstein | why are we not attracting that kind of talent? | 18:32 |
| zequence | No one is stopping them | 18:32 |
| holstein | right.. so, again... why? | 18:33 |
| zequence | It's up to them what they want to do | 18:33 |
| holstein | what limitations? can we do something to attract them? do we need to? etc.. | 18:33 |
| zequence | It's not like there there are a lot of barriers in the way | 18:33 |
| zequence | It's pretty open to whoever has the interest | 18:33 |
| zequence | If you don't have the interest, well.. | 18:33 |
| holstein | you would think.. so whats up? | 18:34 |
| holstein | thats all i would like to know, and address | 18:34 |
| holstein | is it upstream? is it not having support in the work flow? is it *us* here? etc | 18:34 |
| zequence | I think it's mostly personal stuff, but that's my opinion | 18:34 |
| holstein | not that we have to make it a goal to be attractive.. but, why are folks not working with us, and making their own stuff? | 18:34 |
| zequence | No one here is stopping anyone from doing stuff | 18:35 |
| zequence | falktx doesn't want to do things the hard way - following a policy made by a community | 18:35 |
| holstein | right.. the door is open, i get that.. but to what? | 18:35 |
| zequence | That's my interpretation of what he told me, anyway | 18:36 |
| zequence | He likes to do things his own way. | 18:36 |
| zequence | That doesn't work | 18:36 |
| holstein | nah | 18:36 |
| zequence | I mean, to a limit | 18:36 |
| holstein | thats what ubuntu is ;) | 18:36 |
| holstein | someone setting up a way, and the community following it, and re-defining it | 18:36 |
| holstein | falk is talented. if he wanted to get more involved upstream.. etc | 18:36 |
| zequence | Everyone is welcome to continue the work, but you also have to respect the work | 18:37 |
| holstein | anyways, its deoesnt have to be falk.. | 18:37 |
| holstein | do you have to repect the work? | 18:37 |
| zequence | None of falktx applications have been packaged in Debian yet | 18:37 |
| holstein | respect what work? where? | 18:37 |
| holstein | you mean, they have to "respect upstream"? and who does? anyone? | 18:37 |
| zequence | What work? The work that the community does, for Debian, and Ubuntu | 18:37 |
| holstein | its not documented that respect is part of the equation.. etc.. | 18:37 |
| zequence | You have to respect the policies, and other stuff that the community has agreed on, in one way or another | 18:38 |
| zequence | YOu cant just bypass everything | 18:38 |
| zequence | But, if you want to, you can always start your own distro | 18:38 |
| OvenWerks | Part of the limitation with US is that we have to work with our repo. Often the version of a major app or utility we are stuck with in an LTS ends up broken. | 18:39 |
| holstein | well, there was a suggestion to breakk it off into a PPA | 18:39 |
| holstein | which, i think is a valid conversation | 18:39 |
| OvenWerks | Jackd2 in 14.04 as an example. | 18:39 |
| OvenWerks | putting it in a ppa, makes it the same as falk's work | 18:40 |
| holstein | if we, based on work flow, are *always* limited by that, and releasing something that is always behind, or, not good enough, then, its something to discuss, for sure | 18:40 |
| zequence | I got to go, sorry. But, I will be available a lot more the coming week. Planning to do a lot of work then. | 18:41 |
| holstein | anyways, this is the kind of thing we can discuss at meetings.. which, i will hopefully be having time for setting up in the fall | 18:41 |
| OvenWerks | I am speaking from mostly an audio POV for sure as I don't do enough of anyting else | 18:41 |
| holstein | i would like to speak constructively about how to identify, and potentially address what may keep contributors from joining | 18:43 |
| holstein | "respect" is not a requirement ;) | 18:43 |
| OvenWerks | encouragement probably is | 18:44 |
| holstein | its not documented anywhere that i know of.. folks disagree all the time, and identify, and address, and change things.. it doenst have to be a sign of disrespect to want to change things.. | 18:44 |
| OvenWerks | I agree | 18:44 |
| holstein | i would just like to brainstorm.. why do folks start their own spins, instead of contributing here, to US | 18:45 |
| holstein | if its because we are always limited to the repo, can we address that? do we need to maintain an official port, etc.. | 18:45 |
| holstein | if its, "its just too hard to properly work with upstream ubuntu", then, we need to mention that to upstream, and see about getting a liason, or whatever.. | 18:46 |
| OvenWerks | If you look at kzstudio, it always has the latest fixes. Even quicker than they get to debian, let alone ubuntu. | 18:46 |
| holstein | yup | 18:47 |
| holstein | and if thats the appeal, how do we compete with that? and do we need to? | 18:47 |
| OvenWerks | The day after (hour after?) ardour 4.1 was out, it was in kxstudio | 18:47 |
| holstein | ubuntu-mate is going to implement some form of 'work flows' soon.. meta packages for different production | 18:47 |
| holstein | are we being made irrelevant? | 18:47 |
| holstein | we dont contrbute any code, other than the low latency kernel, AFAIK | 18:48 |
| holstein | so, could we just do that? just be "the ubuntustudio kernel"..? | 18:48 |
| OvenWerks | When people ask for a recomended distro, it is almost never Studio. | 18:48 |
| holstein | again.. just brain storming.. but, having a kernel, in the main repo, that works well.. that would contribute to everyone.. | 18:48 |
| OvenWerks | Yes. | 18:49 |
| holstein | OvenWerks: its always specifically, that ubuntustudio is *not* a good choice | 18:49 |
| OvenWerks | kx uses it :) | 18:49 |
| holstein | OvenWerks: i challenge it, and am usually met with "ok, i havent actually tried it in years".. or whatever | 18:49 |
| holstein | but still.. its a bad reputation.. and i would like to, from the ground up, look at all the moving parts.. or, non-moving parts, and see what we need to do to fit whatever goals it is we have | 18:50 |
| holstein | who is we? etc.. | 18:50 |
| OvenWerks | holstein: I think there are some things in the linux world that are not generally done right for audio. | 18:50 |
| holstein | OvenWerks: for audio production, for sure.. and are we always burned by that? if so, the PPA thing sounds like a good idea | 18:50 |
| holstein | though, then, we compete with falk.. | 18:51 |
| OvenWerks | right | 18:51 |
| holstein | i have to run, or i will miss the double gigs i have.. cheers! | 18:51 |
| OvenWerks | I think the (semi)pro audio linux world needs to start with running jack from session start | 18:51 |
| OvenWerks | holstein: o/ | 18:51 |
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